Armagh Club football & hurling

[Aghdavoyle]

Some of you lads are asking for examples of when he got caught for pace. When we say he was caught for pace we don't mean that someone out ran him. But if you look at the two Fermangh games and to a lesser extent the Wexford game. Where you had smaller nippier forwards that were able to bypass the likes of O'Rourke and he was exposed.

i'm not sure i follow... what does that mean in practical terms?

do you mean he "missed tackles" in these games?

[corn02]

There was a major difference in Geezer and Martin O'Rourke. Geezer was put there for his stopping ability. His hard hitting and his tackling, so as anyone coming down the middle at the Armagh team knew what they would be getting. Martin O'Rourke wouldn't be the physical enough to do this job.Therefore the obvious centre half back is Mc Keever. Martin O' Rourke is there to start the attacks from deep and his main strength is his distribution of the ball. He could pick a man out with a pin point (something Mc Geeney struggled with). Some of you lads are asking for examples of when he got caught for pace. When we say he was caught for pace we don't mean that someone out ran him. But if you look at the two Fermangh games and to a lesser extent the Wexford game. Where you had smaller nippier forwards that were able to bypass the likes of O'Rourke and he was exposed. He has been a great servant but he should now move over as should enda and let the younger lads come through.

Believ me physical abilty is not a problem for Aidan. Probably one of the strongest on the team. Disagree, when your faced with waves of attacks you can only do so much. Every defender struggled that day. The turning point came froma long ball, not a forward runner.

[billy the kid]

Was not at any of the games today but the third most consistent SENIOR team in armagh this year (Cullyhanna) is beat by an intermediate second division football team from Derry

Any body any opinions on this?

Greenlough are a Third division team in Derry and actually finished in the bottom half of the table.

Second year in a row this has happened, Last year the Derry intermediate champions were from Division 3 and actually spent nearly the whole year down at the bottom of the division but stayed up after winning last few games, and they hammered the Armagh intermediate champions in first round of ulster who were in Div 1 Armagh at the time although they were relegated at end of year. It was Wolf tones or whitecross, I can never remember which.

[winsamsoon]

It is Aidan i am talking about full back i am half a sleep today. Still haven't got over the tiredness of the Calzaghe fight

[winsamsoon]

Whilst i acknowledge Corn that he wasn't the only one on the day that was badly exposed (and i already stated that) . I also acknowledge that it is difficult to defend when you have wave after wave of half backs attacking you. But lads lets face it the lad isn't getting any younger. The Dromintee lads seem to be taking this as a criticism of Aidan and you couldn't be any further from the truth. He's been a great servant but the legs to play at this level simply aren't there anymore.

In Practical terms Aghdavoyle it simply means that he hasn't got the pace to mark a smaller younger player at intercounty level. Sure he still could float the odd pass up field and maybe even venture up and get the odd score but Armagh are not the kind of team that can afford to carry passengers. Armagh need six defenders that are capable of defending be it fast or slow men. For too long the Armagh defense has been exposed because of the overall lack of pace. the time now has come for the older servants to make way ie Bellew, O'Rourke and  Mc Nulty. They simply don't have the legs anymore to cope with the modern forward. Sure enough Armagh won an Ulster this year but all in all Ulster was pretty poor in comparison to the previous 6 or 7 years. Armagh beat a bad Down Team and struggled to beat a bad Fermanagh team. They were eventually beaten by a bad Fermanagh team. These teams haven't a hope in hell in winning an all Ireland. So i guess in practical terms in means that if Armagh have any All Ireland aspirations then the older guys must make way for a new group of players.

Tyrone had to do it after Peter Canavan hung the boots up . Tyrone went into a period of Transition but it wasn't anything major or overly noticeable. They where still winning the odd national league . As a result they came back stronger than ever and won an All Ireland. This won't be the case in Armagh because we will have lads hanging in there preventing the younger lads coming through and only hampering future prospects. This will only do harm in the long run. Mc Donnell should now be given the time and proper chance to rebuild the Armagh team not from scratch but using guys like Clarke, Mallon, Mc Donnell and mc keever to led a new team onto the future. A clean break now will only reap rewards sooner rather than later.

[corn02]

Not taking it as anti-Dromintee Win and you raise valid points. Maybe I have blue-tinted specs on, but I thought Aidan was one of our better players last year and I think he is well capable of another good Championship - his league form will be interesting.

His pace is akin to Geezers - both great readers of the game - pace not essential. For me, Aidan had a specific role this year and done it very well. Tactics may have made him look weak, but I didn't see that.

[Donagh]

Winsamsoon, is that Armagh or the Clans you are talking about there?   

[winsamsoon]

Donagh The clans are about another 10 steps behind Armagh again  There aren't enough pages to write about the clans.

[corn02]

It is very early for predictions etc, but things are quiet so we may as well keep it going.

Basically I think people are too quick to state "it is time for the old boys to retire" and speak of rebuilding. McGrane was one of our best performers this year and, in my view, AOR was also. Bellew was doing well until one, unusual, mistake got the axes out from sone.

This season will be similar, those waiting in the wings are not as good as the old heads. Whats the options? A clear-out and give these boys Championship experience, or pursue with the older, better players and see what happens. Personally, experience is not an attribute and talent is so option two would be my pick.

Of course that is a very general, sweeping statement to say that the older players are better than the new blood. Toner was obviosuly a find this season and Donaghy was impressive when introduced. O'Rourke jnr and Tony Kernan should also be battling hard for a starting slot while the midfield emergence of Lavery, McKenna and ONeill will be interesting. Finn Mo nailed down a slot thanks to the league, most of these will get a chance and it all depends on who performs.

People are making out we were poor last year - we weren't. The usual mixed league campaign was followed by two easy wins, a collaps, a recovery and then Wexford. Armagh were grinding out the result against a half-decent Wexford side as they have done this last nine years. As with Monaghan 03, Fermanagh 04, Donegal and Derry 07 and Wexford, they got caught out. If Francie deals with the ball, we are in the semi-final.

Tactics have also come under a lot of fire. They were nearly spot on for me. As I have stated, the only thing wrong was deploying two defencsive half-backs (MOR and Vernon) was wrong, only one was needed - MOR. I would like to see Vernon and AK swapped. It would give us a better defensive and offensive impetus.

[goh4205]

Not taking it as anti-Dromintee Win and you raise valid points. Maybe I have blue-tinted specs on, but I thought Aidan was one of our better players last year and I think he is well capable of another good Championship - his league form will be interesting.

His pace is akin to Geezers - both great readers of the game - pace not essential. For me, Aidan had a specific role this year and done it very well. Tactics may have made him look weak, but I didn't see that.

Corn, that's the very point, the tactics were setup for Aidan to play that role & it still didn't work. like winsam said, it's not a personal attack on a great player & a good fella as well, but just stating points which may make the armagh side more adapable to play faster teams.  as i said before it's ok for NL, but not for championship.

[corn02]

Fair enough GOH, point taken and a certain degree of truth in there, but I don't know if we can say they were set up to suit Aidan. The reading of the game and passing is obviosuly two of his sstrongest attributes and McDonnell tried to create space for him to do that - which he done very well. If we go 6-2-6 we will go backwards in my eyes. We don't have six shooters and the blanket defence has been our trademark for years. For me, tweaks needed, no major overhaul.

[illdecide]

Lads what do you make of this North Armagh cup thingie...where the townies play the culchies. I know it's for charity so it shouldn't be dismissed but would you like something similar for you're area (this wouldn't work in south armagh as they are all culchies ) but i'm sure with not much to do this time of year unless your Cross it would be a bit of craic. The teams are in todays Irish News although i'm not sure why the Ballyhegan lads are in as they moved to Mid Armagh a few years ago...


P.S. i think Winsam and Fullback are going to be good friends... oh and Corn too...

[winsamsoon]

easy you!!!!!

We have always been good mates it was just club loyalities that got in the way

[fitzroyalty]

Lads what do you make of this North Armagh cup thingie...where the townies play the culchies. I know it's for charity so it shouldn't be dismissed but would you like something similar for you're area (this wouldn't work in south armagh as they are all culchies ) but i'm sure with not much to do this time of year unless your Cross it would be a bit of craic. The teams are in todays Irish News although i'm not sure why the Ballyhegan lads are in as they moved to Mid Armagh a few years ago...


P.S. i think Winsam and Fullback are going to be good friends... oh and Corn too...

have to say I think its a cracker idea...though i think the country team will win as they will probably have more county players to chose from. Only downside is that the lurgan mail/portadown times are organising it, which is surprising considering the pitiful amount of gaa coverage the mail usually gives. also i suspect its a bit of a PR stunt but since it's for charity I wont go down that avenue (yet).

[illdecide]

Good man win...

i think it's a good idea also but i have to agree with you on the Lurgan liar and Portydown spoof, WTF would they know about and that Eugene Creaney one picking the players. If you read his articles you'd know he hasn't a clue but i suppose for charity we'll keep quiet this time...I'm raging he didn't pick me