Armagh Club football & hurling

[brokencrossbar1]

We were told growing up that teams in the North didn't like the lads coming with the "straw on their boots"  It's a load of auld balls anyway, you're either good enough or not.  In the 40's and 60's it was Clann Eireann, in the 50's the Harps, in the 70's and 80's it was the Clans.  Cross are the only constant, with the 50's being the only decade they never won a championship.  The reality though is that outsdie of Cross, Mullaghbawn won the one in 1995 to supplement the one the won in 1964, before that you have to go to the early 80's when Cruppen won 3 I think(they won 4 others either as Cruppen or Geraldines), Killeavey won 3, the last in 1948, Newtown won back to back ones 1940-41, Shane O'neills won 2 and Whitecross have the distinction of the first SA team to win it in 1905.

The over all breakdown is North 22, Mid 31, South 53.  Obviously Cross dominate the south figures with 37, so that gives you an idea of where things sit.  

It all means nothing really just a few interesting titbits.

[naka]

cross are also fortunate to have the biggest pick of players in Armagh, cruppen won championships at senior level  only when they had a pick that rivalled cross ie( no belleeks, corrinshego,Shanes etc), whilst plaudits should go to cross it isnt a level playing field
I sincerely hope the ogs or killeavey end their reign as its unhealthy

[Goats Do Shave]

cross are also fortunate to have the biggest pick of players in Armagh, cruppen won championships at senior level  only when they had a pick that rivalled cross ie( no belleeks, corrinshego,Shanes etc), whilst plaudits should go to cross it isnt a level playing field
I sincerely hope the ogs or killeavey end their reign as its unhealthy

Pardon my ignorance, but is Silverbridge & Culloville, not closer to Crossmaglen than Beleeks & Corrinshego? - & No disrespect to the latter 2 clubs, but Silverbridge & Culloville are both Div 1 teams!

EDIT - Sorry Silverbridge aren't - but still...

[brokencrossbar1]

cross are also fortunate to have the biggest pick of players in Armagh, cruppen won championships at senior level  only when they had a pick that rivalled cross ie( no belleeks, corrinshego,Shanes etc), whilst plaudits should go to cross it isnt a level playing field
I sincerely hope the ogs or killeavey end their reign as its unhealthy

Bullshit Naka.  That last census carried out stated that Cross town has a population of under 1600.  I would estimate that if you include the environment around it that actual level of people in the vicinity is around 6000.  If you consider that you have a pull of Silverbridge, Cullaville and to a lesser extent Cullyhanna, this shit about a bigger pick can be put in perspective.  Keady has a similar size population, Killeavey and Dromintee are the only clubs in a very large geographical area.  Shane O'Neills and Carrickcruppen are the only clubs in a larger urban area than Cross.  Mullaghbawn stretches from the top of Sturgan Brae, the whole way over to Forkill, then around the bottom of the hills to McGeoughs old shop on the Newry Road, up towards Beleelks old field and then across to Lislea.  I can guarantee that the majority of families in that geographical area are involved and that doesn't include the village itself.  It is an easy excuse to make, the simple fact is that there is a better set up on Cross than any other club and that is the main reason behind success.

[corn02]

The main reason maybe BC but to suggest Cross do not have a much bigge pick than the average south armagh team is foolish.

[bennydorano]

What is the Primary School set up in around that whole area?  Are the likes of Silverbridge, Cullyhanna, Mullabawn, Cullaville catered for by their own schools are do they all go to St Pat's PS in Cross? 

[armaghniac]

What is the Primary School set up in around that whole area?  Are the likes of Silverbridge, Cullyhanna, Mullabawn, Cullaville catered for by their own schools are do they all go to St Pat's PS in Cross?

All of these clubs have a primary school in their area.

The relevant website (http://www.denidata.nics.gov.uk/) appears to be down, but it might be interesting to look at the numbers in these schools as a measure of the pick in an area.

Cross has not much more than 2000 people in its "zone". More than its neighbours for sure, but there is a strong football culture in those parts. I think there was one year when all 4 clubs in Upper Creggan were graded senior, although the Bridge, Culloville and Naomh Malachi are mostly Intermediate.

To put the Cross pick in perspective the average catchment for an Armagh club probably has 1500 (divide nationalist pop of Armagh by no of clubs). Taking out the Junior/Div 4 clubs the average would be higher.

[illdecide]

We were told growing up that teams in the North didn't like the lads coming with the "straw on their boots"  

But there is this feeling among some guys in North Armagh that the South Armagh men are made of Concrete and the North guys crumble when they play South Armagh teams. As for me personally i loved playing against South Armagh teams as i was always out to show that steel will crumble concrete

I believe it's 15 men against 15 men and whoever wants it the most will win. As for who has the bigger catchment areas i know nothing about that side of things from down here. Maybe you hoors are drinking diesel up there and thats what's making you look 30 when you are only 15

[bennydorano]

I asked as the Principal of St Pat's was telling me that when they won the McGreevy Cup last year the players recieved a Guard of Honour from members of the Cross Senior panel.  Something like that is bound to have a big effect on any young lad and if you are not from Cross & unless your Da is going to drag to Silverbridge underage training or wherever you'd likely want to go to Cross.  If you get them young, you'll likely keep them.

[naka]

Bc i dont believe what i say is bullshit, cross are the only team in a fiercely gaelic community who are also extremely wealthy( money fron ocupation of the grounds etc)  their only opposition was st johns which was quickly diffused,cullyhanna have 2 clubs competing,  keady have a hurling team which cross dont have,mullaghbawn have forkhill pinching 1/2 players, shanes and cruppen compete in an area that holds its allegiance to soccer, as does killeavey, lurgan is a soccer area with say 5 clubs competing,
to say u operate under the same constraints as everyone else is naive
whilst I respect cross, i have more respect for the guys who run phelim bradies, clady, lissummon madden etc

[corn02]

Naka you have a point in there somewhere to suggest the likes of the runners of Phelims do more than The people who run cross is crazy.

[naka]

corn I didnt say that what i said is that the guys who are involved in  phelim bradys etc these clubs know success will probably nver come to their underage teams nor their senior teams yet they still, mark the pitch chase sponsorship etc, I see that as a far harder and difficult  task than being involved in the most successful club in armaghs historyi

[brokencrossbar1]

The main reason maybe BC but to suggest Cross do not have a much bigge pick than the average south armagh team is foolish.

Of course there is a slightly bigger pick but less than some think.  Like the schools in Kilkenny the kids at St Pat's are taught to idolise the senior team from a young age.  I don't know if they still do it but Oisin and Aaron among others would go to the school to coach the young lads.  They have it breed into them as kids. 

I''ll give you an example of the difference in the areas.  I went to St Pat's Cullyhanna primary school.  When I was in P6 we won the McGeevey Cup, the first school in the area to do it.  The team was backboned by players who were Cullyhanna underage players, with myself, and Micheal McVerry from the Bridge.  There were some great players on that team, with at least 3 that went on to play minors for Armagh and Des Mackin played senior.  Cullyhanna never built on it and lost out on a potential county championship winning team as they had a lot of great players from th eprevious years team as well.

The following year St Pat's in Cross won it, with a team of Oisin, Francie, the Macs among others.  I played with them in the club and against them in the school, it was odd to say the least.  There ws very little difference between the two underage club teams at the time, we both would have played regulalry against each other, and Kileavey were in that mix too.  The difference was Tim Gregory took us under his wing and made us unbeatable.  We lost 2 underage games from U 12 to minor, in all competitions but the players were all from "established"  football families.  When we came through to senior, the club used our success to instill belief into all the young lads and that is reaping its rewards now.     It is not that there are more players but simply that they are getting better coached. 

I heard an interview with the gret Weeshie Fogarty on the radio today which summed up why the likes of Tommy Walsh and Ogie Moran's son are playing so well.  They are excellent players in their own right, but they are playing with superstars.  This brings them to a different level of performance as they are training with better players, therefore learning better habits, they are developing the winning belief and they have supreme confidence in themselves and their team mates.  I would liken that to Cross.  There are more people living in Cork than Kerry and individually there is not a massive leap between them in terms of skill, but the difference is that Kerry have developed a system which works  consistently and all the players buy into it.  This is similar to the Cross set up.

Bc i dont believe what i say is bullshit, cross are the only team in a fiercely gaelic community who are also extremely wealthy( money fron ocupation of the grounds etc)  their only opposition was st johns which was quickly diffused,cullyhanna have 2 clubs competing,  keady have a hurling team which cross dont have,mullaghbawn have forkhill pinching 1/2 players, shanes and cruppen compete in an area that holds its allegiance to soccer, as does killeavey, lurgan is a soccer area with say 5 clubs competing,
to say u operate under the same constraints as everyone else is naive
whilst I respect cross, i have more respect for the guys who run phelim bradies, clady, lissummon madden etc

Naka that's fair enough but the reason Cross don't have as many constraints is because the senior team that I was on was so successful that no one wanted to go elsewhere.  But there is also a different mentality of the people involved and consequently the success feeds down.  The guys who run Phelim Brady's put in no more or no less effort than the ones involved in Cross and that, coupled with your comment in regards to money, are belittling to say the least.  We did not win All Irelands because we had money.  Money did not make myself and 30 other lads bust our holes on a training field.  We made the effort 15 years ago when Armagh was a joke of a county footballing wise to bring a bit of success to the county.  As a result the likes of you and many other posters here have had the opportunity to see Armagh lift Sam for the first time.  Cross changed the mentality of people in Armagh and no one can ever deny that.

[naka]

i dont think cross were the reason we won Sam ,they helped but geezer, mc grane atc were trhat focussed that they were going to die for the cause
i would never belittle cross and their achievements and accept that tim gregory was an important part of that  all i was saying was its easier to be associated with a successful team than a poor team, that is why their pick is greater
i recall when cruppen went to the 3rd division no one wanted to manage them nor sponsor them  it was only the usual families who contributed to the cause( loughrans, mcguinnesses burns etc)yet now they are getting relative success at underage level a whole new breed of families are getting involved who would have no tradition

[brokencrossbar1]

Naka, the likes of McGeeney and McGrane were driven of course, but you underestimate the influence of the likes of the McEntees.  Their wining attitude drives people on more than most.  They were as big a factor than the two you mentioned as they are born winners