The Many Faces of US Politics...

[J70]

https://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/story/_/id/29354447/fbi-says-rope-had-talladega-garage-last-fall-bubba-wallace-not-victim-hate-crime?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true


Forgive me for my skepticism when it comes to stuff like this

Yes, what could this driver have been thinking, given the history and paraphernalia of NASCAR!

Or maybe the fact that there was another noose hoax just last week out in California

Ah... so they ALL have to be a hoax?

How should Wallace have reacted here?

[whitey]

https://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/story/_/id/29354447/fbi-says-rope-had-talladega-garage-last-fall-bubba-wallace-not-victim-hate-crime?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true


Forgive me for my skepticism when it comes to stuff like this

Yes, what could this driver have been thinking, given the history and paraphernalia of NASCAR!

Or maybe the fact that there was another noose hoax just last week out in California

Ah... so they ALL have to be a hoax?

How should Wallace have reacted here?

Who said that?

This talladega one had all the hallmarks of a hoax

Picture of "noose" not released

Driver himself didn't see it

So the one out in Oakland, a fvckin black guy admitted putting the ropes up for exercise
Purposes and the idiot Mayor is still calling it a hate crime.

Hate to say it, but like the faux outrages about Trump, this stuff actually is beginning to backfire

[five points]

A group of Republican ex national security officials are going to endorse Biden and campaign for him. They include at least two dozen who served under Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. This is in addition to the Lincoln Project, a Republican-led effort to run anti-Trump ads in battleground states.

Like John Bolton, these guys are so p***ed off that Trump has stopped their wars. Like Reagan in this second term, a declining President Biden would be a very soft touch for them.

Or maybe some of them are appalled at what's happened to the conservative movement and the charlatan, in it only for himself, who has taken it over?

When warmongers are appalled, I am happy.

The typical neocon warmonger is about as conservative as Bernie Sanders.

I must be misremembering "freedom fries" and "if you're not with us, you're agin us" and the brow-beating of the US people by Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, rapturously cheered on by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, into the Iraq war. Cynthia McKinney, a brave black congresswoman who was the only one to stand against Bush was public enemy number 1. Remember that mother of a dead soldier who was torn to shreads by the right for daring to stand up and call bullshit (I can't remember her name, but I'll find it). American conservatism, from the 40s forward, has been completely comfortable with foreign intervention and wars. That some of them changed their mind in the aftermath of things turning shit in Iraq doesn't change history.

edit: Cindy Sheehan

The only thing remotely conservative about Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld was the political party they hijacked. They allied with Tony Bloody Blair for heaven's sake.

I find it hilarious that you're now praising their lackeys for attacking Trump, who for all his faults refuses to play their war games.

[J70]

https://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/story/_/id/29354447/fbi-says-rope-had-talladega-garage-last-fall-bubba-wallace-not-victim-hate-crime?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true


Forgive me for my skepticism when it comes to stuff like this

Yes, what could this driver have been thinking, given the history and paraphernalia of NASCAR!

Or maybe the fact that there was another noose hoax just last week out in California

Ah... so they ALL have to be a hoax?

How should Wallace have reacted here?

Who said that?

This talladega one had all the hallmarks of a hoax

Picture of "noose" not released

Driver himself didn't see it

So the one out in Oakland, a fvckin black guy admitted putting the ropes up for exercise
Purposes and the idiot Mayor is still calling it a hate crime.

Hate to say it, but like the faux outrages about Trump, this stuff actually is beginning to backfire

Again, how should Wallace have reacted?

In what way are what YOU term "faux outrages" about Trump starting to backfire?

Has the red triangle helped his numbers? Are those ads going ahead? (You still haven't posted anything to back up your assertion that they got it from Antifa).

The only thing that might "help" Trump is that he is such a corrupt, inept and offensive character that he keeps churning out things that would consume any ordinary politician at such a rate that people can't keep up as the story moves on to the next one. Few of these are "faux outrages". If Biden has any sense, he will be making ads to remind people of all the things Trump has said and all the scandals that would have tanked any other politician. Just like the Lincoln Project.

[whitey]

J70-Wallace is already losing a lot of the goodwill he earned last week

Anyone with 2 fvckin brain cells to rub together would accept what happened was a misunderstanding

It was an honest mistake made by whoever reported it. End of. Move on Bubba

Going on Don Lemon and doubling down on a hoax doesn't help him or his cause (Which is a righteous one)

[J70]

A group of Republican ex national security officials are going to endorse Biden and campaign for him. They include at least two dozen who served under Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. This is in addition to the Lincoln Project, a Republican-led effort to run anti-Trump ads in battleground states.

Like John Bolton, these guys are so p***ed off that Trump has stopped their wars. Like Reagan in this second term, a declining President Biden would be a very soft touch for them.

Or maybe some of them are appalled at what's happened to the conservative movement and the charlatan, in it only for himself, who has taken it over?

When warmongers are appalled, I am happy.

The typical neocon warmonger is about as conservative as Bernie Sanders.

I must be misremembering "freedom fries" and "if you're not with us, you're agin us" and the brow-beating of the US people by Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, rapturously cheered on by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, into the Iraq war. Cynthia McKinney, a brave black congresswoman who was the only one to stand against Bush was public enemy number 1. Remember that mother of a dead soldier who was torn to shreads by the right for daring to stand up and call bullshit (I can't remember her name, but I'll find it). American conservatism, from the 40s forward, has been completely comfortable with foreign intervention and wars. That some of them changed their mind in the aftermath of things turning shit in Iraq doesn't change history.

edit: Cindy Sheehan

The only thing remotely conservative about Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld was the political party they hijacked. They allied with Tony Bloody Blair for heaven's sake.

I find it hilarious that you're now praising their lackeys for attacking Trump, who for all his faults refuses to play their war games.

1. Bush, Cheney, Rumself and the rest were GOP stalworts, longtime members of various administrations, congress and governor of Texas. It is ludicrous to try to claim that they hijacked the party.

2. I have a lot more admiration for those who speak out (albeit not Bolton, who saved his revelations for his book instead of testifying) than the vast majority of Republicans who talk honestly in private, but cower down in pubic, scared shitless of saying anything lest Trump give them a nickname or call them out on Twitter and rouse the rabble of the GOP base against them, ending up in a primary challenge by someone who "was Trump before Trump was Trump". Unfortunately, most of these people only do speak out after they've left and their career as a current Republican is effectively over.

[five points]

1. Bush, Cheney, Rumself and the rest were GOP stalworts, longtime members of various administrations, congress and governor of Texas. It is ludicrous to try to claim that they hijacked the party.

Hardly ludicrous, no more it is to say that Charlie Haughey and his cronies (all party stalwarts and longtime administration members) hijacked Fianna Fáil and Tony Blair and his (ditto) hijacked UK Labour.

2. I have a lot more admiration for those who speak out (albeit not Bolton, who saved his revelations for his book instead of testifying) than the vast majority of Republicans who talk honestly in private, but cower down in pubic, scared shitless of saying anything lest Trump give them a nickname or call them out on Twitter and rouse the rabble of the GOP base against them, ending up in a primary challenge by someone who "was Trump before Trump was Trump". Unfortunately, most of these people only do speak out after they've left and their career as a current Republican is effectively over.

It speaks volumes that you have a bigger gripe about Trump than about a gang of bloodsoaked warmongers who sent countless thousands to their deaths.

[J70]

J70-Wallace is already losing a lot of the goodwill he earned last week

Anyone with 2 fvckin brain cells to rub together would accept what happened was a misunderstanding

It was an honest mistake made by whoever reported it. End of. Move on Bubba

Going on Don Lemon and doubling down on a hoax doesn't help him or his cause (Which is a righteous one)

He is adamant it was noose, whether or not it was intended for someone else. I am sure he is well aware that, especially in the sport he is in, that continuing to speak out might not play too well.

[J70]

1. Bush, Cheney, Rumself and the rest were GOP stalworts, longtime members of various administrations, congress and governor of Texas. It is ludicrous to try to claim that they hijacked the party.

Hardly ludicrous, no more it is to say that Charlie Haughey and his cronies (all party stalwarts and longtime administration members) hijacked Fianna Fáil and Tony Blair and his (ditto) hijacked UK Labour.

2. I have a lot more admiration for those who speak out (albeit not Bolton, who saved his revelations for his book instead of testifying) than the vast majority of Republicans who talk honestly in private, but cower down in pubic, scared shitless of saying anything lest Trump give them a nickname or call them out on Twitter and rouse the rabble of the GOP base against them, ending up in a primary challenge by someone who "was Trump before Trump was Trump". Unfortunately, most of these people only do speak out after they've left and their career as a current Republican is effectively over.

It speaks volumes that you have a bigger gripe about Trump than about a gang of bloodsoaked warmongers who sent countless thousands to their deaths.

1. So from whom did Bush and the rest "hijack" the party?
2. The GOP have been a bunch of warmongers for decades. But its just one of many things I find objectionable about them. And I don't for a second think Trump wouldn't launch a war if he thought it would help his personal prospects. But the fact is that, here and now, Trump is the president, and his conduct, rhetoric and policies are the immediate concern. What numerous former administration members are documenting should probably be concerning to you too.

[five points]

1. So from whom did Bush and the rest "hijack" the party?

Bush Snr took over just as the Cold War was coming to an end and the world was settling down. Within a few years he was fighting Saddam Hussein. The rest is history.

2. The GOP have been a bunch of warmongers for decades. But its just one of many things I find objectionable about them. And I don't for a second think Trump wouldn't launch a war if he thought it would help his personal prospects. But the fact is that, here and now, Trump is the president, and his conduct, rhetoric and policies are the immediate concern. What numerous former administration members are documenting should probably be concerning to you too.

I'd be more concerned about the warmongers, to be honest. Biden, if he wins, will be putty in their hands.

[whitey]

J70-Wallace is already losing a lot of the goodwill he earned last week

Anyone with 2 fvckin brain cells to rub together would accept what happened was a misunderstanding

It was an honest mistake made by whoever reported it. End of. Move on Bubba

Going on Don Lemon and doubling down on a hoax doesn't help him or his cause (Which is a righteous one)

He is adamant it was noose, whether or not it was intended for someone else. I am sure he is well aware that, especially in the sport he is in, that continuing to speak out might not play too well.

He can be adamant all he wants-ALL REPORTS were that he didn't even see it himself. A team member saw it, cut it down and then reported it

Aren't you suspicious they haven't released a picture of it yet?

[J70]

1. So from whom did Bush and the rest "hijack" the party?

Bush Snr took over just as the Cold War was coming to an end and the world was settling down. Within a few years he was fighting Saddam Hussein. The rest is history.

2. The GOP have been a bunch of warmongers for decades. But its just one of many things I find objectionable about them. And I don't for a second think Trump wouldn't launch a war if he thought it would help his personal prospects. But the fact is that, here and now, Trump is the president, and his conduct, rhetoric and policies are the immediate concern. What numerous former administration members are documenting should probably be concerning to you too.

I'd be more concerned about the warmongers, to be honest. Biden, if he wins, will be putty in their hands.

Both US parties were fully signed on for foreign interventions, whether direct or covert or through clients, for decades before either Bush.

But even if they weren't, political parties continually evolve and change in response to the times. The GOP weren't always the crazy guns, god and gays party they became in the past few decades. Tony Blair's New Labour reformed Labour in response to the way the world was in the 90s, when a middle ground between the leftist politics of the old Labour party and Thatcherism was being sought. Same as Bill Clinton's response to the rise of Newt Gingrich. The only person in this conversation who has "hijacked" a party is Donald Trump, who has taken over a movement and made it all about him, personally.

Why you think neocons would be given any prominent role in a Biden administration is not clear to me. Are there currently any saber-rattling Democratic politicians around that you're talking about instead?

[J70]

J70-Wallace is already losing a lot of the goodwill he earned last week

Anyone with 2 fvckin brain cells to rub together would accept what happened was a misunderstanding

It was an honest mistake made by whoever reported it. End of. Move on Bubba

Going on Don Lemon and doubling down on a hoax doesn't help him or his cause (Which is a righteous one)

He is adamant it was noose, whether or not it was intended for someone else. I am sure he is well aware that, especially in the sport he is in, that continuing to speak out might not play too well.

He can be adamant all he wants-ALL REPORTS were that he didn't even see it himself. A team member saw it, cut it down and then reported it

Aren't you suspicious they haven't released a picture of it yet?

What does it matter if he saw it himself or not? He said it was photographed. Presumably he was shown a picture.

I don't know about the photo. What are those who are so determined that it wasn't a noose basing their opinions on? Presumably they've also seen it. Why haven't THEY released the photo?

[Gmac]

J70-Wallace is already losing a lot of the goodwill he earned last week

Anyone with 2 fvckin brain cells to rub together would accept what happened was a misunderstanding

It was an honest mistake made by whoever reported it. End of. Move on Bubba

Going on Don Lemon and doubling down on a hoax doesn't help him or his cause (Which is a righteous one)

He is adamant it was noose, whether or not it was intended for someone else. I am sure he is well aware that, especially in the sport he is in, that continuing to speak out might not play too well.

He can be adamant all he wants-ALL REPORTS were that he didn't even see it himself. A team member saw it, cut it down and then reported it

Aren't you suspicious they haven't released a picture of it yet?

What does it matter if he saw it himself or not? He said it was photographed. Presumably he was shown a picture.

I don't know about the photo. What are those who are so determined that it wasn't a noose basing their opinions on? Presumably they've also seen it. Why haven't THEY released the photo?

garage door manual pull strings are often tied like that to stop people banging their heads off the pull part, there's nooses in half the garage doors around the country so.

[five points]

Why you think neocons would be given any prominent role in a Biden administration is not clear to me.

Because that is what they do. They had Obama tied up in foreign wars for the duration of his two presidencies. And Biden looks a lot weaker than Obama was when he assumed office.