On the day when Inda is due to address the state to tell everyone how belts must be tightened, we find out he ordered his officials to break the salary cap and bring in a 37% pay increase (an extra €35,000) for his friend and former spin doctor Ciarán Conlon. Inda said that while the new wage was excessive, it was appropriate "in this specific case". The more things change.....
What time is the address?
After the 9 news on RTÉ1
It defies any logic that he broke this pay cap.
Ahh back to the good old days of Charlie Haughey when the Taoiseach was telling us to tighten our belts while he was playing free and easy with the tax payers money.
Nothing has changed
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 04, 2011, 12:47:11 PM
On the day when Inda is due to address the state
His name is Enda.
Quote from: tyronefan on December 04, 2011, 02:20:11 PM
Ahh back to the good old days of Charlie Haughey when the Taoiseach was telling us to tighten our belts while he was playing free and easy with the tax payers money.
Nothing has changed
Hadn't realised that Charlie Haughey had the ability to tax people in Tyrone.
I see Fine Gael are up again and Sinn Féin are down again, seems the nation trusts Enda more than the Shinners.
Quote from: Mac Eoghain on December 04, 2011, 03:54:23 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2069731/How-Irish-PM-ordered-officials-break-salary-cap-old-friend-PR-adviser.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2069731/How-Irish-PM-ordered-officials-break-salary-cap-old-friend-PR-adviser.html)
Repulsive.
Good to see you're coming down hard on Inda's cronyism there MGHU.
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 04, 2011, 05:12:39 PM
Good to see you're coming down ard on Inda's cronyism there MGHU.
Agreed - I think that deserves a response.
Dunno which is worse, British rule or Irish rule... :P
Quote from: Mac Eoghain on December 04, 2011, 03:54:23 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2069731/How-Irish-PM-ordered-officials-break-salary-cap-old-friend-PR-adviser.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2069731/How-Irish-PM-ordered-officials-break-salary-cap-old-friend-PR-adviser.html)
Seriously poor judgment and timing on his part. The kind of carry on that FF were at for years.
Quote from: sammymaguire on December 04, 2011, 05:18:38 PM
Dunno which is worse, British rule or Irish rule... :P
German!
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 04, 2011, 05:15:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 04, 2011, 05:12:39 PM
Good to see you're coming down ard on Inda's cronyism there MGHU.
Agreed - I think that deserves a response.
Not sure who Inda is, but perhaps you mean Enda (or is that how you spell it up in Ulster, looks like Ulster-Scot type spelling to me).
I think it was a very poor decision. Aside from any pay hike being justified or not, it creates very poor optics for Ireland as a nation to an international audience.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 04, 2011, 05:57:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 04, 2011, 05:15:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 04, 2011, 05:12:39 PM
Good to see you're coming down ard on Inda's cronyism there MGHU.
Agreed - I think that deserves a response.
Not sure who Inda is, but perhaps you mean Enda (or is that how you spell it up in Ulster, looks like Ulster-Scot type spelling to me).
I think it was a very poor decision. Aside from any pay hike being justified or not, it creates very poor optics for Ireland as a nation to an international audience.
Very poor indeed. Hypocritical in fact. Actually, it's FF-esque.
P.S. You are doing a lot of talking about SF on the thread here. This thread is nothing to do with SF. It's about cronyism and hypocricy in FG. Please stick to the subject.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 04, 2011, 05:57:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 04, 2011, 05:15:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 04, 2011, 05:12:39 PM
Good to see you're coming down ard on Inda's cronyism there MGHU.
Agreed - I think that deserves a response.
Not sure who Inda is, but perhaps you mean Enda (or is that how you spell it up in Ulster, looks like Ulster-Scot type spelling to me).
I think it was a very poor decision. Aside from any pay hike being justified or not, it creates very poor optics for Ireland as a nation to an international audience.
I think we should worry about the Irish audience first, rather than the international audience. I doubt the international audience is too concerned about the salary of a political advisor.
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 04, 2011, 06:02:14 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 04, 2011, 05:57:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 04, 2011, 05:15:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 04, 2011, 05:12:39 PM
Good to see you're coming down ard on Inda's cronyism there MGHU.
Agreed - I think that deserves a response.
Not sure who Inda is, but perhaps you mean Enda (or is that how you spell it up in Ulster, looks like Ulster-Scot type spelling to me).
I think it was a very poor decision. Aside from any pay hike being justified or not, it creates very poor optics for Ireland as a nation to an international audience.
Very poor indeed. Hypocritical in fact. Actually, it's FF-esque.
P.S. You are doing a lot of talking about SF on the thread here. This thread is nothing to do with SF. It's about cronyism and hypocricy in FG. Please stick to the subject.
No its not Nally, its about the Taoiseach's address to the nation (despite the deliberate misspelling of his name). I suppose you will scuttle off now to gerrymander the title to suit your agenda.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 04, 2011, 06:42:26 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 04, 2011, 06:02:14 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 04, 2011, 05:57:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 04, 2011, 05:15:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 04, 2011, 05:12:39 PM
Good to see you're coming down ard on Inda's cronyism there MGHU.
Agreed - I think that deserves a response.
Not sure who Inda is, but perhaps you mean Enda (or is that how you spell it up in Ulster, looks like Ulster-Scot type spelling to me).
I think it was a very poor decision. Aside from any pay hike being justified or not, it creates very poor optics for Ireland as a nation to an international audience.
Very poor indeed. Hypocritical in fact. Actually, it's FF-esque.
P.S. You are doing a lot of talking about SF on the thread here. This thread is nothing to do with SF. It's about cronyism and hypocricy in FG. Please stick to the subject.
No its not Nally, its about the Taoiseach's address to the nation (despite the deliberate misspelling of his name). I suppose you will scuttle off now to gerrymander the title to suit your agenda.
I opened the thread and wrote the first post which should tell you what the thread is about....the hypocricy of Inda Kenny as evidenced by his cronyist action and the nature of his speech tonight. And EITHER way, if it was just about his speech tonight, then it still wouldn't be a thread about SF, would it. So please, do try and stick to the subject.
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 04, 2011, 06:50:14 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 04, 2011, 06:42:26 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 04, 2011, 06:02:14 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 04, 2011, 05:57:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 04, 2011, 05:15:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 04, 2011, 05:12:39 PM
Good to see you're coming down ard on Inda's cronyism there MGHU.
Agreed - I think that deserves a response.
Not sure who Inda is, but perhaps you mean Enda (or is that how you spell it up in Ulster, looks like Ulster-Scot type spelling to me).
I think it was a very poor decision. Aside from any pay hike being justified or not, it creates very poor optics for Ireland as a nation to an international audience.
Very poor indeed. Hypocritical in fact. Actually, it's FF-esque.
P.S. You are doing a lot of talking about SF on the thread here. This thread is nothing to do with SF. It's about cronyism and hypocricy in FG. Please stick to the subject.
No its not Nally, its about the Taoiseach's address to the nation (despite the deliberate misspelling of his name). I suppose you will scuttle off now to gerrymander the title to suit your agenda.
I opened the thread and wrote the first post which should tell you what the thread is about....the hypocricy of Inda Kenny as evidenced by his cronyist action and the nature of his speech tonight. And EITHER way, if it was just about his speech tonight, then it still wouldn't be a thread about SF, would it. So please, do try and stick to the subject.
You have just mentioned SF twice in quick succession, I think you have established precedent ;D
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 04, 2011, 06:55:47 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 04, 2011, 06:50:14 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 04, 2011, 06:42:26 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 04, 2011, 06:02:14 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 04, 2011, 05:57:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on December 04, 2011, 05:15:18 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on December 04, 2011, 05:12:39 PM
Good to see you're coming down ard on Inda's cronyism there MGHU.
Agreed - I think that deserves a response.
Not sure who Inda is, but perhaps you mean Enda (or is that how you spell it up in Ulster, looks like Ulster-Scot type spelling to me).
I think it was a very poor decision. Aside from any pay hike being justified or not, it creates very poor optics for Ireland as a nation to an international audience.
Very poor indeed. Hypocritical in fact. Actually, it's FF-esque.
P.S. You are doing a lot of talking about SF on the thread here. This thread is nothing to do with SF. It's about cronyism and hypocricy in FG. Please stick to the subject.
No its not Nally, its about the Taoiseach's address to the nation (despite the deliberate misspelling of his name). I suppose you will scuttle off now to gerrymander the title to suit your agenda.
I opened the thread and wrote the first post which should tell you what the thread is about....the hypocricy of Inda Kenny as evidenced by his cronyist action and the nature of his speech tonight. And EITHER way, if it was just about his speech tonight, then it still wouldn't be a thread about SF, would it. So please, do try and stick to the subject.
You have just mentioned SF twice in quick succession, I think you have established precedent ;D
Right, you have bumped another thread to distract people from this topic. Kindly now stick to the topic of this thread while in it.
Quote from: tyronefan on December 04, 2011, 02:20:11 PM
Ahh back to the good old days of Charlie Haughey when the Taoiseach was telling us to tighten our belts while he was playing free and easy with the tax payers money.
Nothing has changed
Hadn't realised that Charlie Haughey had the ability to tax people in Tyrone.
[/quote]
Just because I am from Tyrone dont assume I live there
Quote from: tyronefan on December 04, 2011, 07:31:19 PM
Quote from: tyronefan on December 04, 2011, 02:20:11 PM
Ahh back to the good old days of Charlie Haughey when the Taoiseach was telling us to tighten our belts while he was playing free and easy with the tax payers money.
Nothing has changed
Hadn't realised that Charlie Haughey had the ability to tax people in Tyrone.
Just because I am from Tyrone dont assume I live there
[/quote]
Was it in the 1980s you lived down in the 26?
Why doesn't enda stand down and let the real boss address the serfs, I'm sure Angela would tell it as it is. We all know what he is going to say anyway - tough times, not my fault, blame ff. Pity we can't ask him about all his election lies.
despite his grandiose title of Taoiseach, he has not at present the power too lick a postage stamp, without approval from Berlin, whatever he says tonight he is only the messenger. A good money saving idea would be to close the Dail, and leave the permanent civil service to administer the dictates of Merkel and the Troika. After all if the so called government is not prepared to stand up for its people, what purpose does it serve
You'll all be coming north for your petrol and diesel after the budget.
It was very poor judgement on Enda's behalf and undermines him ahead of tonight's State of the Nation address.
Although, I don't see why those in the 6 counties are so concerned - it's not their money that's being spent on the advisor...
Quote from: Tubberman on December 04, 2011, 09:13:43 PM
Although, I don't see why those in the 6 counties are so concerned - it's not their money that's being spent on the advisor...
Where did the money come from then, ECB, IMF, UK PLC, France, the Germans, Iceland?
The ineptitude and hypocrisy of free state partitionists like you amuses us
Quote from: Pangurban on December 04, 2011, 09:17:25 PM
The ineptitude and hypocrisy of free state partitionists like you amuses us
Never get tired of trying to turn every thread into free state v the north do you?
And then you call "us" partitionists....
This thread is about the Taoiseach's address to the state - keep that other shite out of it, thanks.
You were the one who queried why Irish citizens residing in the North should be interested or concerned, clearly implying it was none of our business
Quote from: Tubberman on December 04, 2011, 09:13:43 PM
Although, I don't see why those in the 6 counties are so concerned
It relates to 26 counties of OUR country.
:o He just spoke about how FG cut wages for themselves. The hypocrite simply has no shame.
That was all a bit pointless really - it's the same message they've been giving since they got into office.
I think it will only serve to piss people off rather than reassure them in any way.
Nothing new really was there? However, at least he still had the balls to do it not like his predessor BIFFO who fcuked up this country!
Shite 'address' of the nation. Boring waffle that was poorly delivered. Not very statesman like and little impact other than the bore factor
Biffo took over a Country which had already been fcuked up by the Bertiecunts ( including Biffo).
As for the Mayoman tonight , as someone said abit pointless - he's said it all before , we know we're in the sh1ts , we know we're going to have to pay for it etcetc.
Paper clip has more personality than Enda Kenny.
Pretty poor stuff
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 04, 2011, 09:53:16 PM
Paper clip has more personality than Enda Kenny.
And more useful. Did he actually say anything?
Since you are all sticking the boot in Taoisigh past and present I am wondering who was the last good Taoiseach the Irish state had?
*not a defence of any of them
Albert Reynolds
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on December 04, 2011, 09:59:11 PM
Albert Reynolds
Back seat Taoiseach, name one positive action he done, or is it just that he didn't f**k anything up?
So what was the message, that he is going to f**k us over in the budget? We already know that enda.
Quote from: trileacman on December 04, 2011, 10:32:49 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on December 04, 2011, 09:59:11 PM
Albert Reynolds
Back seat Taoiseach, name one positive action he done, or is it just that he didn't f**k anything up?
Advancement in the peace process?
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 04, 2011, 10:49:19 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 04, 2011, 10:32:49 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on December 04, 2011, 09:59:11 PM
Albert Reynolds
Back seat Taoiseach, name one positive action he done, or is it just that he didn't f**k anything up?
Advancement in the peace process?
Yeh, Id agree Reynolds wasn't the worst. Ahern & Haughey were a plague, Bruton an idiot and Enda just a yes man.
Sean Lemass.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on December 04, 2011, 10:36:34 PM
So what was the message, that he is going to f**k us over in the budget? We already know that enda.
What a waste of time !!
Inda only wanted to address the nation because of his ego as others had done so in the past ( haughey & Lynch etc)
He said nothing and the broadcast was a farce - especially if you factor in his hypocrisy in the speech in relation to the advisorgate revelations earlier.
Still he is talking about these changes he is going to make - the pre election promises.... When is he going to f**king well make them ? In the months before the next election.
Fg are a joke. Our politicians are a joke. We have no alternative apart from revolution. I'd almost prefer if Germany took over.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 05, 2011, 12:52:08 AM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on December 04, 2011, 10:36:34 PM
So what was the message, that he is going to f**k us over in the budget? We already know that enda.
What a waste of time !!
Inda only wanted to address the nation because of his ego as others had done so in the past ( haughey & Lynch etc)
He said nothing and the broadcast was a farce - especially if you factor in his hypocrisy in the speech in relation to the advisorgate revelations earlier.
Still he is talking about these changes he is going to make - the pre election promises.... When is he going to f**king well make them ? In the months before the next election.
Fg are a joke. Our politicians are a joke. We have no alternative apart from revolution. I'd almost prefer if Germany took over.
....and to think that today, if Red-C is to believed, almost 1 in 5 people would once again give their vote to FF. Defies logic but nothing surprises.
http://www.independent.ie/business/european/italian-minister-in-tears-as-she-announces-austerity-measures-2953946.html (http://www.independent.ie/business/european/italian-minister-in-tears-as-she-announces-austerity-measures-2953946.html)
Can you imagine Enda,Howlin or Noonan doing this?
Quote from: Declan on December 05, 2011, 11:38:20 AM
http://www.independent.ie/business/european/italian-minister-in-tears-as-she-announces-austerity-measures-2953946.html (http://www.independent.ie/business/european/italian-minister-in-tears-as-she-announces-austerity-measures-2953946.html)
Can you imagine Enda,Howlin or Noonan doing this?
I know exactly what the public reaction would be. They'd more than likely be right, and is probably the case in Italy as well.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QPUU8Qg1xO4/TDIFab6q4EI/AAAAAAAAGII/ZGiemVSNPy4/s1600/crocodile-tear.jpg)
Quote from: Declan on December 05, 2011, 11:38:20 AM
http://www.independent.ie/business/european/italian-minister-in-tears-as-she-announces-austerity-measures-2953946.html (http://www.independent.ie/business/european/italian-minister-in-tears-as-she-announces-austerity-measures-2953946.html)
Can you imagine Enda,Howlin or Noonan doing this?
Thats because turning on the waterworks might evoke immediate sympathy and feelings of solidarity but if your subsequent actions in person do not match your display of sorrow as the country suffers, you could quickly invite scorn as an image of political deviousness.
Now that she has broadcast such an emotional reaction, I await to hear how much Ms Fornero shares Italys sacrifice away from the cameras vis a ve her own salary, working hours, pension and benefits. She has invited those questions with her tears.
Or perhaps I am being too cynical and she genuinely does intend to share in the pain of the average Italian.
Enda claimed that the Gov. had negotiated an interest rate cut and that they had imposed losses on some bondholders.
"We secured a lower rate of interest on the country's borrowings that will save us €10 billion over time"
The interest rate cut was part of a separate negotiation with Greece and was offered on plate to the rest of the EZ.
The Gov. were not part of that negotiation.
If that small interest rate cut saves €10bn, what on earth is the total sovereign debt repayments and interest rate payments over time?
As to burning bondholders
"We are shutting down dysfunctional banks and we have recapitalised the remaining ones at a lower cost than expected, by imposing losses on some bondholders."
The Gov. did not impose losses on bondholders in regards to the recent BOI recapatilisation, some burning was considered but rejected when the BOI did what it is supposed to do, find solutions to problems, and to be sure the Gov were not part of that process.
"You are not responsible for the crisis."
This is the line that will be remembered in years to come and embellished with suitable phrases
such as
but you suckers are going to pay for the crisis, not only going to pay your own credit crisis but the credit crisis of private banks.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 05, 2011, 12:52:08 AM
What a waste of time !!
Inda only wanted to address the nation because of his ego as others had done so in the past ( haughey & Lynch etc)
To be fair, Cowen was hammered for
not communicating, so it's pretty much a no-win situation in terms of whether or not he should have addressed the nation.
Quote from: trileacman on December 04, 2011, 10:32:49 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on December 04, 2011, 09:59:11 PM
Albert Reynolds
Back seat Taoiseach, name one positive action he done, or is it just that he didn't f**k anything up?
The man who sold passports with the pre-requisite that his family firm needed investment funds.
Great Taoiseach alright, up there with the worst
He also managed to negotiate huge EU grants for the country when others thought he hadn't a chance
Martin addressing the state there now - Jaysus - he should be shot with a ball of his own dung, I turned him off. How dare them FF'ers come on the national airwaves and start preaching about a recovery when they were the ones that created the mayhem ! >:(
First requirement of a politician -- a hard neck.
I suppose the 2nd would be an ability to lie with a straight face ;D
Am I right in thinking that the budget will have the exact same impact, euro for euro, on a family with an annual income of 50 grand as it will have on Pat Kenny and Bono
Kenny's plea 'for sacrifice' an empty gesture
FINTAN O'TOOLE
'DIFFICULT CHOICES are never easy." Thus the Taoiseach in his address to the nation on Sunday night.
Savour the phrase. Hold it to the light. Swirl it round the glass. Stick your nose in deep and inhale the rich aromas of full-bodied absurdity. Get the pungent whiff of carmelised cliche and curdled smugness.
Imagine the work that went into crafting it, the bleary-eyed, caffeine-soaked speechwriters in their lonely eyrie, in the early hours of Sunday morning, running through the variations: hard choices are seldom soft; nasty things are never pleasant; difficult options tend to be difficult. The ecstatic high-fives when the quiet kid suddenly pipes up – hey guys, how about this: difficult choices are never easy. The rush of knowing they'd nailed it this time – the perfect tautology, the complete annihilation of any smidgen of meaning or content.
Romantic that I am, I like to imagine that one of those backroom boys, so selflessly slaving on behalf of the nation, was Ciarán Conlon, who has long been one of Enda Kenny's key communications people. But this could hardly be so, since in Ciarán's case, difficult choices actually are easy. He made the difficult and patriotic choice to reject the "ridiculous" maximum salary of €92,000 he should have received as an adviser to Richard Bruton. As detailed by Ken Foxe in the Mail on Sunday , Ciarán held out for €127,000 instead. And, at the personal instance of Enda Kenny, he got it.
So here's what a difficult choice actually looks like. We could have Ciarán for €127,000 or we could have five care assistants for people with intellectual disabilities at a starting salary of €26,590 each, totalling €132,950. Or, to be fair, we could have Ciarán on the basic salary for a Government adviser of €80,051 plus two care assistants.
So the Taoiseach really had three options: no Ciarán but five people with intellectual disabilities given some kind of dignity; a somewhat grumpy Ciarán on a mere €80,000; or a happy Ciarán on €127,000. Enda bit the bullet and took the difficult decision that the nation in its hour of crisis needs a happy Ciarán, on the top of his game.
Which may well be true. Ciarán's expertise is in marketing and PR, in crafting messages. He might, for example, be able to help the Government explain his own salary without digging holes for itself, as Simon Coveney managed to do on Morning Ireland yesterday. He told us that the salary cap for advisers could be breached when the "best people" were being recruited from the private sector and taking pay cuts as a result. Ciarán was recruited by the Government from that successful private-sector company, Fine Gael. If the party was paying him much more than €127,000, it is obviously in receipt of far too much public money.
The truth, of course, is that "difficult choices" are much more difficult for some people than for others. We could pay more than the full wage of a speech and language therapist from the difference between the basic salary for a Government adviser and what Ciarán's actually getting. Who, exactly, is that "difficult" for? For the 23,000 children on waiting lists for speech therapy – over 10,000 waiting even to be assessed? Or for the members of the Government striking poses about how brave they are to make these tough decisions while quietly looking after their own?
The Taoiseach told us on Sunday night: "Before asking families to make sacrifices, we also insisted on sacrifices from those at the top." The idea seems to be that there is some kind of equivalence between Bertie Ahern's sacrifice of €80 a week in his €150,000-plus pension and the nine-year-old child with Down syndrome who's told she has missed the "window of opportunity" to learn to speak because no therapist is available. There's actually a big difference. The difference between the gesture of "making a sacrifice" and the reality of being sacrificed.
The truly difficult decisions are not being made. It's hard to make the one choice that really matters: the protection of the most vulnerable. Kenny's basic proposition – that we're all in this together – is patently untrue.
If the pain was being shared fairly, this State would be a more equal society than it was before the crash, because the well-off would be bearing more of the burden. New figures from the Central Statistics Office show that the opposite is happening. Inequality is rising rapidly. In 2009, the top 20 per cent had 4.3 times the income of the bottom 20 per cent. In 2010, the ratio was 5.5.
The official response to the crash, in other words, is widening the gap between the haves and have-nots. And a Government that still believes, at heart, that a political PR man is many times more valuable than a speech therapist doesn't have the will to challenge this reality.
The Taoiseach's appeal to shared sacrifice sounds hollow because it is hollow. The rhetoric is literally empty.
Well what was Fintan expecting, that things would really be any different, that we really would all be in it together?
"meet the new boss, same as the old boss"