The Palestine thread

[give her dixie]

There is a lot of talk about a ceasefire been agreed. Lets hope it's true

[seafoid]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/live-blog-day-8-of-israel-gaza-conflict-2012-1.479350

Egypt has announced that Israel and Hamas had agreed to a cease-fire to end eight days of fighting. Hundreds of rockets were fired into southern Israel, killing killed five Israelis, while IDF strikes in Gaza killed more than 140 Palestinians.

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton arrived in Israel on Tuesday, to help the sides reach a cease-fire.

I this is true then Hillary has been squeezing Bibi's nuts. This is a climbdown for him.
I wonder if it linked to the Palestinian vote at the UN at the end of the month. Is there some deal they have cooked to avoid Israelis being dragged to the Hague.

[Ulick]

I wouldn't say it's a climbdown, in fact I'd say he'd no intention of a ground invasion. The IDF simply have no credible targets left. Continued bombing just creates more innocent victims which not even the famed hasbara can counter. The Palestinians have been given another bloody nose and the Egyptians have been shown who is boss. Job done!

[Itchy]

Seafood- I assume you've no problem calling the people who put a bomb on a public bus in tel Aviv murderers and cowards, targeting civilians in breech of the Geneva convention. Were probably women and children on that bus. Hamas then praised the attack, what do you think about that seafood.

[Ulick]

Seafood- I assume you've no problem calling the people who put a bomb on a public bus in tel Aviv murderers and cowards, targeting civilians in breech of the Geneva convention. Were probably women and children on that bus. Hamas then praised the attack, what do you think about that seafood.

Where they targeting civilians though - I read the bus was next to the IDF Headquaters so it could be argued that they were targeting the IDF and some civilians were injured as collateral damage. That's what the IDF are arguing is happening in Gaza isn't it?

[tyssam5]

The question was - how many rockets do you allow to be fired at your civilian population before you react? Can anyone give an answer to this one?

Depend on the definition of "rocket". 2000 rockets with 3 fatalities suggest they're about as lethal as the rockets we see fired at the PSNI every July. In fact Malta has more people killed by fireworks every year than are killed by these rockets in Israel.

I've often wondered why their success rate is so low. I don't attribute it to them firing off Roman Candles though?

Since they've killed a few people this time I'm sure there is plenty of variation in 'rocket quality', but I stayed in Askelon in 2007 and they showed me where a 'rocket' had hit the hotel car-park. The Tarmac wasn't even damaged, looked like someone had skid a motor-bike.
A few longer range efforts have got a lot of publicity, but the vast majority don't go more than 10 or so miles and apart from a couple of small towns, it's empty desert or maybe some farms to the North.

The West Bank as portrayed in maps doesn't exist, the small towns and cities there have been separated/ghettoized and the idea seems to be to make a Palestinian state unfeasible. Israel has the power right now and there are plenty of right wing Zionists who want all that land (the whole country is tiny). Delays in the proposed 2 state settlement will be used make further territorial gains.

[Rossfan]

Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians.
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media.

[seafoid]

Seafood- I assume you've no problem calling the people who put a bomb on a public bus in tel Aviv murderers and cowards, targeting civilians in breech of the Geneva convention. Were probably women and children on that bus. Hamas then praised the attack, what do you think about that seafood.

Obviously. It is not right to target civilians, but I'd love to see Israel take international law seriously as well.
WTF are 800,000 Jews doing in the Palestinian occupied territories ? 

Bringing in the GC is a bit of as joke really seeing as Israeli ignores them. 

[tyssam5]

The question was - how many rockets do you allow to be fired at your civilian population before you react? Can anyone give an answer to this one?

Depend on the definition of "rocket". 2000 rockets with 3 fatalities suggest they're about as lethal as the rockets we see fired at the PSNI every July. In fact Malta has more people killed by fireworks every year than are killed by these rockets in Israel.

See link to economist article posted earlier. IDF states that only 35 out of 848 projectiles fell on 'non-empty' areas. So my guess on that was close enough, add other observation about lack of lethality of many and you have your answer.

I've often wondered why their success rate is so low. I don't attribute it to them firing off Roman Candles though?

[Itchy]

Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians.
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media.

Well Rossfan, I call people who fire missiles into buildings of civilians cowardly murderers. Just because I think Hamas joy at blowing up a bus is sick doesn't automatically mean I'm a supporter of Israel. Just means there are plenty of murdering cowards on both sides. It is however interesting to read the relatively lukewarm criticism of Hamas by seafood when he copies and pastes endless articles when Israel is the aggressor. For what its worth I do believe Israel is the biggest aggressor but its not the only one.

[seafoid]

Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians.
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media.

Well Rossfan, I call people who fire missiles into buildings of civilians cowardly murderers. Just because I think Hamas joy at blowing up a bus is sick doesn't automatically mean I'm a supporter of Israel. Just means there are plenty of murdering cowards on both sides. It is however interesting to read the relatively lukewarm criticism of Hamas by seafood when he copies and pastes endless articles when Israel is the aggressor. For what its worth I do believe Israel is the biggest aggressor but its not the only one.

Is that you BalldeBeaver?

Israel is the aggressor BTW. If the Brits kept Fermanagh under lockdown and allowed only 2000 calories in per head for over 6 years and trashed the county's water system and had 10% of kids badly malnourished as official policy I would consider the Brits to be out of order. 

[CiKe]

I wouldn't be next or near as informed as most of ye, but i'd like to think i could see through the propaganda.

I'm not sure I agree with all of you on that the BEEB is wilfully taking sides however. Unfortunately, like it or not, actual Israeli deaths/injuries are less common which in some respects make them more reportable than the more common suffering of Palestinians in Gaza. To be clear, I'm not saying this is right or that I agree with this hierarchy of victims - far from it.

That said, unintentionally I think the BEEB gave a succinct insight into the day to day last night. Admittedly I didn't watch the whole of the 22:00 news, but I could have sworn that during the first few minutes they showed destroyed buildings, piles of rubble and smoke rising across Gaza. Juxtaposed against this was a hole in an Israeli roof and a 6inch hole in the ground beneath it, about the size where'd you'd maybe put a flower pot. Not exactly proportionate response shall we say.

[Itchy]

Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians.
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media.

Well Rossfan, I call people who fire missiles into buildings of civilians cowardly murderers. Just because I think Hamas joy at blowing up a bus is sick doesn't automatically mean I'm a supporter of Israel. Just means there are plenty of murdering cowards on both sides. It is however interesting to read the relatively lukewarm criticism of Hamas by seafood when he copies and pastes endless articles when Israel is the aggressor. For what its worth I do believe Israel is the biggest aggressor but its not the only one.

Is that you BalldeBeaver?

Israel is the aggressor BTW. If the Brits kept Fermanagh under lockdown and allowed only 2000 calories in per head for over 6 years and trashed the county's water system and had 10% of kids badly malnourished as official policy I would consider the Brits to be out of order.

You're either with me or against me right seafood? perhaps if you read my post youd see i did indicate israel is aggressor. However, you do the Palestinian plight no favours with your complete inability to be genuinely critical of Hamas and the fundamentalist religious shite they spout.

[seafoid]

Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians.
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media.

Well Rossfan, I call people who fire missiles into buildings of civilians cowardly murderers. Just because I think Hamas joy at blowing up a bus is sick doesn't automatically mean I'm a supporter of Israel. Just means there are plenty of murdering cowards on both sides. It is however interesting to read the relatively lukewarm criticism of Hamas by seafood when he copies and pastes endless articles when Israel is the aggressor. For what its worth I do believe Israel is the biggest aggressor but its not the only one.

Is that you BalldeBeaver?

Israel is the aggressor BTW. If the Brits kept Fermanagh under lockdown and allowed only 2000 calories in per head for over 6 years and trashed the county's water system and had 10% of kids badly malnourished as official policy I would consider the Brits to be out of order.

You're either with me or against me right seafood? perhaps if you read my post youd see i did indicate israel is aggressor. However, you do the Palestinian plight no favours with your complete inability to be genuinely critical of Hamas and the fundamentalist religious shite they spout.

Do you think abortion should be legalised in Ireland? 

[Itchy]

Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri hailed the explosion.

"Hamas blesses the attack in Tel Aviv and sees it as a natural response to the Israeli massacres...in Gaza," he told Reuters. "Palestinian factions will resort to all means in order to protect our Palestinian civilians in the absence of a world effort to stop the Israeli aggression."

Sweet cakes were handed out in celebration in Gaza's main hospital, which has been inundated with wounded from the round-the-clock Israeli bombing and shelling.

"GATES OF HELL"

"You opened the gates of hell on yourselves," Hamas's armed wing, the al-Qassam brigades, said on Twitter. "Oh Zionists, you have to drag yourselves out of hell, go back home now, go back to Germany, Poland, Russia, America and anywhere else."

Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians.
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media.

Well Rossfan, I call people who fire missiles into buildings of civilians cowardly murderers. Just because I think Hamas joy at blowing up a bus is sick doesn't automatically mean I'm a supporter of Israel. Just means there are plenty of murdering cowards on both sides. It is however interesting to read the relatively lukewarm criticism of Hamas by seafood when he copies and pastes endless articles when Israel is the aggressor. For what its worth I do believe Israel is the biggest aggressor but its not the only one.

Is that you BalldeBeaver?

Israel is the aggressor BTW. If the Brits kept Fermanagh under lockdown and allowed only 2000 calories in per head for over 6 years and trashed the county's water system and had 10% of kids badly malnourished as official policy I would consider the Brits to be out of order.

You're either with me or against me right seafood? perhaps if you read my post youd see i did indicate israel is aggressor. However, you do the Palestinian plight no favours with your complete inability to be genuinely critical of Hamas and the fundamentalist religious shite they spout.

Do you think abortion should be legalised in Ireland?

You're doing a great job of showing just how unable you are to be balanced by refusing to engage. Here's a quote for you from Hamas ...