The IRISH RUGBY thread

[GetOverTheBar]

Devin Toner is back and Jean Kleyn isn't.
Funny old world

Will Devin be going to the WC in 4 years?  Very unlikely

Will Sexton be going to the WC in 4 years?   Very Unlikely

I get that Farrell is probably looking to have a reasonably experienced spine for the upcoming 6N's in the hope of not taking a battering in the big games but I'd like to think both will be phased out if not this year then definitely the next to allow those lads to come through that will be leading the team in 4 years.

Take a look at that French squad - that's World Cup planning

[johnnycool]

Devin Toner is back and Jean Kleyn isn't.
Funny old world

Will Devin be going to the WC in 4 years?  Very unlikely

Will Sexton be going to the WC in 4 years?   Very Unlikely

I get that Farrell is probably looking to have a reasonably experienced spine for the upcoming 6N's in the hope of not taking a battering in the big games but I'd like to think both will be phased out if not this year then definitely the next to allow those lads to come through that will be leading the team in 4 years.

Take a look at that French squad - that's World Cup planning

New Coach and 20 uncapped players.

No messing about there but he could well be looking over his shoulder if there's a few poor performances. The French rugby public are more unforgiving than the Irish.

[screenexile]

I actually agree with Farrell. There may be a soft 6 Nations to win here which will have no bearing on the World Cup. England and France will be struggling with the condensed season and not being able to rest lads from club games.

Wales will take a while to find their feet with a new coach and the shambles going on in the WRU.

Scotland and Italy are still basket cases.

2 Years out from the World Cup South Africa were a complete basket case and went on to win. England also had a horrific run of games when we had our best season ever and they got to the WC Final. World cup planning has been happening too early and resulting in form lads not getting in the team or squad for the World Cup so it'll do no harm to change it up!

I can't for the life of me figure out why lads on form like McCloskey and Rhys Ruddock aren't on the squad!

[Angelo]

Devin Toner is back and Jean Kleyn isn't.
Funny old world

Will Devin be going to the WC in 4 years?  Very unlikely

Will Sexton be going to the WC in 4 years?   Very Unlikely

I get that Farrell is probably looking to have a reasonably experienced spine for the upcoming 6N's in the hope of not taking a battering in the big games but I'd like to think both will be phased out if not this year then definitely the next to allow those lads to come through that will be leading the team in 4 years.

Take a look at that French squad - that's World Cup planning

New Coach and 20 uncapped players.

No messing about there but he could well be looking over his shoulder if there's a few poor performances. The French rugby public are more unforgiving than the Irish.

The Dalai Lama is more unforgiving than the Irish rugby public.

[Solo_run]

Ireland need to rebuild and aim for the next world cup. I don't see a problem with older players staying, they are needed so new players can learn from them. Whilst the world cup highlighted the face we didn't have a team up for challenging the world cup the players still possessed talent. The likes of Toner and Sexton most certainly will not be at the next world cup but there is no harm having them around for a year or two to bring on the new players.

[Capt Pat]

Not related to Irish rugby but Saracens have been relegated for cheating. Not following salary cap rules I believe.

[Tony Baloney]

Not related to Irish rugby but Saracens have been relegated for cheating. Not following salary cap rules I believe.

I feel sorry for the likes of Exeter who it seems have stuck to the cap, topped the Gallagher Premiership only to be beaten by Sarries in the final which is how it's decided. It's a f**king disgrace. They were docked a load of points and fined at the start of the season but they have been relegated for not putting their house in order - it looks like they were trying to keep going this season without making the required changes. They had most of the spine of that England team so there was no way they were paying Itoje, Farrell, George, Daly, Vunipola(s), Liam Williams, Alex Goode etc. and staying within the cap. Everyone knew it.

[manfromdelmonte]

Ireland need to rebuild and aim for the next world cup. I don't see a problem with older players staying, they are needed so new players can learn from them. Whilst the world cup highlighted the face we didn't have a team up for challenging the world cup the players still possessed talent. The likes of Toner and Sexton most certainly will not be at the next world cup but there is no harm having them around for a year or two to bring on the new players.

Sorry, but they don't
The six nations is rugby's bread and butter.
Aim to win the six nations and naturally refresh the team and squad.
NZ don't really plan for WC they just bring through form players into their national set up.
SA was a bit of a fluke imho. Their hardest game was vs NZ in group

[Solo_run]

Ireland need to rebuild and aim for the next world cup. I don't see a problem with older players staying, they are needed so new players can learn from them. Whilst the world cup highlighted the face we didn't have a team up for challenging the world cup the players still possessed talent. The likes of Toner and Sexton most certainly will not be at the next world cup but there is no harm having them around for a year or two to bring on the new players.

Sorry, but they don't
The six nations is rugby's bread and butter.
Aim to win the six nations and naturally refresh the team and squad.
NZ don't really plan for WC they just bring through form players into their national set up.
SA was a bit of a fluke imho. Their hardest game was vs NZ in group

Realistically we aren't going to win the 6 nations. There are going to be significant changes this year and next.

[screenexile]

Ireland need to rebuild and aim for the next world cup. I don't see a problem with older players staying, they are needed so new players can learn from them. Whilst the world cup highlighted the face we didn't have a team up for challenging the world cup the players still possessed talent. The likes of Toner and Sexton most certainly will not be at the next world cup but there is no harm having them around for a year or two to bring on the new players.

Sorry, but they don't
The six nations is rugby's bread and butter.
Aim to win the six nations and naturally refresh the team and squad.
NZ don't really plan for WC they just bring through form players into their national set up.
SA was a bit of a fluke imho. Their hardest game was vs NZ in group

Realistically we aren't going to win the 6 nations. There are going to be significant changes this year and next.

Why aren't we going to win?? England are rightly favourites but a lot can happen in the tournament after the WC and we're more than capable of beating the others and England in a one off!!

[GetOverTheBar]

Ireland need to rebuild and aim for the next world cup. I don't see a problem with older players staying, they are needed so new players can learn from them. Whilst the world cup highlighted the face we didn't have a team up for challenging the world cup the players still possessed talent. The likes of Toner and Sexton most certainly will not be at the next world cup but there is no harm having them around for a year or two to bring on the new players.

Sorry, but they don't
The six nations is rugby's bread and butter.
Aim to win the six nations and naturally refresh the team and squad.
NZ don't really plan for WC they just bring through form players into their national set up.
SA was a bit of a fluke imho. Their hardest game was vs NZ in group

Really?

[Estimator]

When you look at the Top 4 teams in the 6Nations since its inception, their records are all very similar to one another:

Wales have won 5 C'ships, 4 Grand Slams and 4 Triple Crowns
France have won 5 C'ships and 3 Grand Slams
England have won 6 C'ships, 2 Grand Slams, 4 Triple Crowns, and 9 Millennium Trophies.
Ireland have won 4 C'ships, 2 Grand Slams, 5 Triple Crowns, and 11 Millennium Trophies

Both France and Wales have been recipients of the Wooden Spoon over the last 20yrs as well.

What really separates the teams are their World Cup exploits (last 20years).  Ireland have yet to win a quarter final.  England have done so 3 times, getting to the final on each occasion.  France have the same record as England in the quarter-finals, getting to 1 final and 2 semi-finals.  Wales have been to the semi-finals twice. 

Should we take some short term pain in the 6nations, by introducing a few more inexperienced players and discarding a few more of the elder statesmen, in order to build towards 2023?

[johnnycool]

Ireland need to rebuild and aim for the next world cup. I don't see a problem with older players staying, they are needed so new players can learn from them. Whilst the world cup highlighted the face we didn't have a team up for challenging the world cup the players still possessed talent. The likes of Toner and Sexton most certainly will not be at the next world cup but there is no harm having them around for a year or two to bring on the new players.

Sorry, but they don't
The six nations is rugby's bread and butter.
Aim to win the six nations and naturally refresh the team and squad.
NZ don't really plan for WC they just bring through form players into their national set up.
SA was a bit of a fluke imho. Their hardest game was vs NZ in group

Really?

Yeah coz they also fluked the Southern Hemisphere equivalent of the 6N's in 2019.

[GetOverTheBar]

When you look at the Top 4 teams in the 6Nations since its inception, their records are all very similar to one another:

Wales have won 5 C'ships, 4 Grand Slams and 4 Triple Crowns
France have won 5 C'ships and 3 Grand Slams
England have won 6 C'ships, 2 Grand Slams, 4 Triple Crowns, and 9 Millennium Trophies.
Ireland have won 4 C'ships, 2 Grand Slams, 5 Triple Crowns, and 11 Millennium Trophies

Both France and Wales have been recipients of the Wooden Spoon over the last 20yrs as well.

What really separates the teams are their World Cup exploits (last 20years).  Ireland have yet to win a quarter final.  England have done so 3 times, getting to the final on each occasion.  France have the same record as England in the quarter-finals, getting to 1 final and 2 semi-finals.  Wales have been to the semi-finals twice. 

Should we take some short term pain in the 6nations, by introducing a few more inexperienced players and discarding a few more of the elder statesmen, in order to build towards 2023?

That can be the only option, surely. Of course we have a serious issue with Carberry - I'm becoming of the opinion that he might be close to being a write off at this stage. Farrell has been around the block with these cycles - the lions. I actually think he'll do well.

[trailer]

When you look at the Top 4 teams in the 6Nations since its inception, their records are all very similar to one another:

Wales have won 5 C'ships, 4 Grand Slams and 4 Triple Crowns
France have won 5 C'ships and 3 Grand Slams
England have won 6 C'ships, 2 Grand Slams, 4 Triple Crowns, and 9 Millennium Trophies.
Ireland have won 4 C'ships, 2 Grand Slams, 5 Triple Crowns, and 11 Millennium Trophies

Both France and Wales have been recipients of the Wooden Spoon over the last 20yrs as well.

What really separates the teams are their World Cup exploits (last 20years).  Ireland have yet to win a quarter final.  England have done so 3 times, getting to the final on each occasion.  France have the same record as England in the quarter-finals, getting to 1 final and 2 semi-finals.  Wales have been to the semi-finals twice. 

Should we take some short term pain in the 6nations, by introducing a few more inexperienced players and discarding a few more of the elder statesmen, in order to build towards 2023?

What's the fascination with the WC?
It is of course a pile of shite in which there is only 8 good teams and about 2 of which can realistically win it.