Martin Mc Guinness Passes Away at 66

[haranguerer]

Sophie Long was forced to quit the PUP I believe

[vallankumous]

With Ian O'g, Sophie Long and the likes breaking from the mould there is a hope that unionism is beginning to acknowledge that there is a strong Irish nationalist element to the North that won't take anything else other than equality and mutual respect to be a given.

In the same breath Unionism in itself is sorely lacking leaders who're prepared to lead from the front without looking over their shoulders all the time at how the hardliners are going to see their actions. When the likes of Jim Rodgers is shit scared to deal with bonefire builders in East Belfast wrecking a £40 Million Greenway it doesn't bode well in terms of true leadership.

It's a long slow process. Sadly apart from those directly involved it's feigned emotion by many politicians and journalists.
Pat Kenny on now talking about the Enniskillin bombing. He spoke with the emotion of a victim. I'd guess Pat Kenny has no emotional connection to that atrocity. There is only so long that can last as it becomes more and more evident that it's only the direct victims than can talk with that emotion. If I was to talk about the executions at 1916 like that I'd be rightly seen as a fool. Or even more recently, if I was to talk about bloody Sunday like that. I see bloody sunday as an important historical event. it still has ramifications today. For those that have survived Bloody Sunday it's an emotional thing. If I talk about it emotional I'll be found out or at least lose the interest of the listener. This is the tactic still used in many parts of Unionism. Like Gregory Campbell it will soon be outdated. People like Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness recognised this long before I did and applied more and more logic and less and less emotion to their approach. That was leadership and it's also a credit to their ability to recognise the curve.

[Estimator]

"We will probably never know however, whether this was because he helped initiate it or responded to events that he knew were inevitable after 9/11 with the Provos being riddled with informers."

Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/gregory-campbell-the-full-truth-has-to-be-told-about-martin-mcguinness-1-7881961

Is GC trying to say that McGuinness' involvement in the ceasefire of '94 and the GFA of '97, were partly in response to events that would happen in 2001?

[The Gs Man]

Haha

Caught a weaker!

[passedit]

Gregory is a total waste of good oxygen. Am sick of hearing this crap about rewritting history. Unionists have totally air brushed from history their discrimination and mistreatment of Catholics in the years prior to the start of the troubles.

In black and white in his article in the Newsletter: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/gregory-campbell-the-full-truth-has-to-be-told-about-martin-mcguinness-1-7881961

Catholic and Protestant working-class communities faced the same disadvantage, the same discrimination and the same lack of opportunities.

This is a line that Campbell always maintains.  Most people, even those opposed to republican violence would say it was a response to discrimination.  They might argue the appropriateness of the response.  However this lad is claiming it didn't happen.

Completely out of touch.

/Jim.

I'd disagree Jim, the Civil Rights Movement was a response to the discrimination, I'd argue that Republican violence was a reaction to the reaction of the NI State and its proxies to the Civil Rights Movement. Whatever about their actions throughout the 'troubles' the IRA were not the initial aggressor here.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

Gregory is a total waste of good oxygen. Am sick of hearing this crap about rewritting history. Unionists have totally air brushed from history their discrimination and mistreatment of Catholics in the years prior to the start of the troubles.

In black and white in his article in the Newsletter: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/gregory-campbell-the-full-truth-has-to-be-told-about-martin-mcguinness-1-7881961

Catholic and Protestant working-class communities faced the same disadvantage, the same discrimination and the same lack of opportunities.

This is a line that Campbell always maintains.  Most people, even those opposed to republican violence would say it was a response to discrimination.  They might argue the appropriateness of the response.  However this lad is claiming it didn't happen.

Completely out of touch.

/Jim.

I'd disagree Jim, the Civil Rights Movement was a response to the discrimination, I'd argue that Republican violence was a reaction to the reaction of the NI State and its proxies to the Civil Rights Movement. Whatever about their actions throughout the 'troubles' the IRA were not the initial aggressor here.

Fair enough,  you could say that.  My real point though was Campbell's claim that working class Protestants suffered the same discrimination as Catholics is unbelievable.

/Jim.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

"We will probably never know however, whether this was because he helped initiate it or responded to events that he knew were inevitable after 9/11 with the Provos being riddled with informers."

Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/gregory-campbell-the-full-truth-has-to-be-told-about-martin-mcguinness-1-7881961

Is GC trying to say that McGuinness' involvement in the ceasefire of '94 and the GFA of '97, were partly in response to events that would happen in 2001?

Noticed that alright..

Toolbag. Shows that he is so set in his version of events that facts and logic are irrelevant.

/Jim.

[north_antrim_hound]

Gregory is a total waste of good oxygen. Am sick of hearing this crap about rewritting history. Unionists have totally air brushed from history their discrimination and mistreatment of Catholics in the years prior to the start of the troubles.

In black and white in his article in the Newsletter: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/gregory-campbell-the-full-truth-has-to-be-told-about-martin-mcguinness-1-7881961

Catholic and Protestant working-class communities faced the same disadvantage, the same discrimination and the same lack of opportunities.

This is a line that Campbell always maintains.  Most people, even those opposed to republican violence would say it was a response to discrimination.  They might argue the appropriateness of the response.  However this lad is claiming it didn't happen.

Completely out of touch.

/Jim.

I'd disagree Jim, the Civil Rights Movement was a response to the discrimination, I'd argue that Republican violence was a reaction to the reaction of the NI State and its proxies to the Civil Rights Movement. Whatever about their actions throughout the 'troubles' the IRA were not the initial aggressor here.

Fair enough,  you could say that.  My real point though was Campbell's claim that working class Protestants suffered the same discrimination as Catholics is unbelievable.

/Jim.

The man lives in constant state of delusion and is relic of the mindset that started the conflict in the first place
I have to say fair dues to Foster on showing up yesterday
You could argue her motive but to me it's a start on the road to redemption after all the crocodile stuff

[Applesisapples]

Forster needs credit for showing up, at the end of the day she was on the receiving end of IRA actions. Campbell however signifies the worst of the notion that McGuinness and Adams are single(or double) handedly responsible for the troubles which only started in 1969. I have watched and lsitened to the BBC over the past few days and sadly most reporters seem to be of that mindset with Nolan being the worst. Listening to Donaldson asking an audience member if he was threatening violence struck me as totally hypocritical from a politician who's statelet and allegiance was founded on the violence and threats of the UVF. Ireland's history is littered with unacceptable violence and tragedies perpetrated on all sides, but listening to some you'd wonder.

[vallankumous]

Fair enough,  you could say that.  My real point though was Campbell's claim that working class Protestants suffered the same discrimination as Catholics is unbelievable.

/Jim.

There is an element of truth in that. It's understandable why some would believe it.
Working class people were always getting screwed. Just because the majority of the working class were Catholic doesn't mean there wasn't working class protestants too. It's no coincidence that loyalists came mainly from working class areas.

[OgraAnDun]

Fair enough,  you could say that.  My real point though was Campbell's claim that working class Protestants suffered the same discrimination as Catholics is unbelievable.

/Jim.

There is an element of truth in that. It's understandable why some would believe it.
Working class people were always getting screwed. Just because the majority of the working class were Catholic doesn't mean there wasn't working class protestants too. It's no coincidence that loyalists came mainly from working class areas.

Go back through history and certain people pulled the strings of the ordinary Protestant to stoke up sectarian tension and division to further alterior motives.

[gallsman]

Ffs Gregory. "Ethnic cleansing" of prods by those awful papists.

He's some gobshite.

[vallankumous]

Go back through history and certain people pulled the strings of the ordinary Protestant to stoke up sectarian tension and division to further alterior motives.

Yes, that's not uncommon. It's also true that it is a real experience, real life, real memory, real history for the 'ordinary protestant'.

[93-DY-SAM]

Forster needs credit for showing up, at the end of the day she was on the receiving end of IRA actions. Campbell however signifies the worst of the notion that McGuinness and Adams are single(or double) handedly responsible for the troubles which only started in 1969. I have watched and lsitened to the BBC over the past few days and sadly most reporters seem to be of that mindset with Nolan being the worst. Listening to Donaldson asking an audience member if he was threatening violence struck me as totally hypocritical from a politician who's statelet and allegiance was founded on the violence and threats of the UVF. Ireland's history is littered with unacceptable violence and tragedies perpetrated on all sides, but listening to some you'd wonder.

When someone like Denis Bradley get annoyed you know things are amiss.  He was calling out the BBC on Tuesday night for their coverage suggesting that Martin McGuinness almost woke up one morning and decided to start The Troubles on his own.  I was willing him on to deck Flegory on The View last night!.  RTE were at it too.  It was as if when someone said something positive about MMG it had to be countered ASAP with something.  LAD summed it up best with the tweet "Wha' Marty was in the 'RA??!!"

There was little to no attempt from any of the media to ask or understand why a young fella from Derry would feel he had to resort to such drastic steps. Whether those drastic steps were right or wrong is another matter. These were the questions that needed asked - and still do. As AQMP said Martin didn't wake up one morning and say you know what lets start a 30 year war against the Brits because I feel like it. Also, I am sure Martin did take a lot of secrets with him but the way the media portrayed it you would have thought he knew everything about every single bombing and shooting the IRA ever did and was the key to giving everyone all of the answers to everything. A bit of perspective wouldn't have gone amiss.

I have no time for Arlene at all but you have to give her some credit for at least being there. She did sour it a little with the will she / won't she routine but she would have done much more damage to relations if she had of stayed away. And fair play to the congregation for welcoming her.

[Denn Forever]

What the eulogy seen on some monument that Martin felt might sum him up?  Some of the speech makers said it.