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Thinking about how the lack of interest in games here reflect the general apathy in the community towards football. Used to be you'd have a thread for each of the big games here with multiple pages of craic, analysis and bickering. Now we've one amalgamated thread for all of ulster with very little interest or posts. You'll never see a 100page + thread of tyrone v Armagh banter ever again.

Came across this on YouTube the other day...

https://youtu.be/arMAgKKhltk?si=VJ9e3OEDG69jXF9u

It's a copy of the Sam 2005 dvd with extended highlights throughout that summer. Forgot how good these dvds were. What really stands out for me, outside of the crowds and quality of the football, was the general atmosphere in the games. The type of football played generated and sustained an almost constant noise throughout the match. The number of contests for the ball was significantly higher and its contests that generate that edge of the seat excitement that in turn created a cauldron of atmosphere and spectacle.

Youll still see unreal skills in today's game, mindblowing points and class goals. However, these are small peaks amongst the dredge we have to watch for 80% of the game. Watching games these days and I can't help but notice the level of general chat in the stands, people on phones and flatness. You'll hardly ever hear a chant outside of the odd come on you blues.

I've wrote this post as I've just completed the GAA games survey and hope that something will be found to return our game to its former glory. To me that is moving away from the obsession with possession based football and finding away to create more opportunities for contests in attack, midfield and forwards. Or maybe I'm a grumpy f**ker and will just have to accept transitions, 20+ passes back to the keeper and 30 players inside a 45 multiple times a game. What a load of shite.

The only way you can return to those days is a straight knockout from the start. It won't happen. 20 years ago I'd have sleepless nights about losing to Cavan. Now, whatever, still a lock a group games.

The GAA may be amateur but its money-making machine is as professional as the NFL in the States.

It wasnt straight knockout in those days though. That said I agree with that post. Football is generally a hard watch these days

Hear City looking a replay with Madrid as penalties don't count lol

theyre saying they didnt actually lose

[Really in a match we didn't lose]

Really in a match we didn't lose we shouldn't worry about a soccer penalty shoot out because of the GAA imposing it to free up Croke park for handy money, strange logic.

Yeah yous did.
Worse than that, it's a match you should have won and had every chance of winning, but bottled it.
Derry in the week leading up to the final had an unprecedented level of upheaval and that was evident in their performance. Yet Armagh couldn't win.
We had Brendan Rogers on a black card at the end of normal time and the and most of the first part of extra time. Yet Armagh couldn't win.
Yous were a point up towards the end of extra time and Rian O'Neill gave away a stupid needless free giving Derry the opportunity to draw level - and they took it. All Armagh had to do was keep their discipline and they probably win. But they didn't.
Armagh were given yet another chance to win in penalties - but bottled it again.

How many chances to yous need to be given to win a game before you stop moaning about not losing?
It was a losing performance from Armagh all day when they should absolutely have won. And you're complaining about penalties? If it went to a replay we'd have won again too. 

Maybe that's strange logic too!    

So, silliness aside, I'm looking forward to the game against Donegal with equal measures of excitement and fear - proper championship game. I really hope we get an opportunity to contest another Ulster final - we haven't played Down in a final for along time   

I don't agree with the narrative that Armagh should have won. We led that game the whole way through normal time, we were 2 points up on more than one occasion in the last 10 minutes of normal time. I remember Brendan Rogers fisted an easy one wide that would have put us 3 up in normal time with not long left and it would have been game over. Armagh were chasing us the whole game, had their chances to win it too in the end but from the position we were in we should have closed that game out in normal time.

I never felt at any stage in that game we would win. Even in extra time when we were leading I never felt we would win

2 time penalty Kick champs, Fact. Vinny Corey had the decency to acknowledge it after Monaghan beat Armagh. Derry got the cups* tho.

It wasn't penalties they beat Donegal on though?

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he meant last year's Ulster and this years NFL, maybe I'm being generous in my interpretation?

not to defend him but I am pretty sure thats what he meant

Rowling is a woman and a victim of domestic abuse. Of course she has a connection when her rights and those of her fellow women are being infringed upon.

Rowling was not abused by a trans person. What rights of Rowling's are being infringed upon?

I am wondering the same thing. The fact she was abused has nothing to do with trans people

[forget about this draw nonsense, they beat us hence they are the defending champions]

Armagh season imo hinges on some silverware and the only thing left open to them is an Ulster title, should they get beat by Down or lose an Ulster Final but achieve a step further than last few years in the All Ireland - will that be a success?

Would have to be seen as a step backwards wouldnt it?

If we lose to Down its a disaster. Looking at potential final opponents- we beat Cavan last year easily so you'd want to be doing the same, we drew with Derry so losing to them would be a backward step, Donegal were shit last year so questions would need asked if they managed to leapfrog us with a new manager. Wouldnt even want to contemplate losing to Tyrone!

if we get to the final and were beat, again (forget about this draw nonsense, they beat us hence they are the defending champions), by Derry it wouldnt be a step back in my eyes.
Arguably last year was a failure by Armagh given we had played in a higher division and the shenanigans around derry in te lead up to the final. This year, again presuming it is us and derry in the final, derry go in as league champions with a multiple all ireland winning manager and we, well, we dont. Thye played at a higher level than us all year also.

Though it really isn't nonsense they won a penalty shoot out based on rules introduced by Croke Park to compress the GAA season under the guise of Club Welfare  (what has a penalty shoot out got to do with a GAA match),  but really for the leasing of Croke Park over the summer as a business venture.  That aside another year under Geezer with nothing to show would be a failure.

Derry won based on the rules of the game.
Whether or not you agree with the rules is up to you but result is there. Derry beat Armagh.
Remains to be see if we can do it again. At the minute I'll be happy if we beat Donegal.

There honestly is no weight of expectation from Derry fans that I'm aware of, I think coming from years of false dawns we now always expect the worst but doesn't stop us from hoping for the best.

as an armagh man I agree and it bugs me when people say otherwise.
As for your last sentence beent here for a long time but i have now moved onto expecting the worst and getting it haha

Without getting into the penalties argument. Still think if Derry were to beat us in normal/extra time it signifies a step back. If Derry have improved so much then why havent we? And if Donegal were to leapfrog us then thats a poor reflection for a team in really the first year of its rebuild.

see the afore mentioned multi AI winning manager for one. Playing against better opposition all year. Lack of nonsense around them this year especially in the build up to the - as yet hypothetical Ulster final -  Doesnt mean we havent improved but we may not have improved as much as them

Armagh season imo hinges on some silverware and the only thing left open to them is an Ulster title, should they get beat by Down or lose an Ulster Final but achieve a step further than last few years in the All Ireland - will that be a success?

Would have to be seen as a step backwards wouldnt it?

If we lose to Down its a disaster. Looking at potential final opponents- we beat Cavan last year easily so you'd want to be doing the same, we drew with Derry so losing to them would be a backward step, Donegal were shit last year so questions would need asked if they managed to leapfrog us with a new manager. Wouldnt even want to contemplate losing to Tyrone!

if we get to the final and were beat, again (forget about this draw nonsense, they beat us hence they are the defending champions), by Derry it wouldnt be a step back in my eyes.
Arguably last year was a failure by Armagh given we had played in a higher division and the shenanigans around derry in te lead up to the final. This year, again presuming it is us and derry in the final, derry go in as league champions with a multiple all ireland winning manager and we, well, we dont. Thye played at a higher level than us all year also.

Calling trans women perverts in dresses does not help matters whatsoever

[Wanting to discuss it in a reasonable manner is not anti anything either. That has been a huge part of the problem, debate being shut down, people being black balled & vilified for daring to question anything.]

If you follow Linehan and the likes, the debate is much wider than transgender rights and womens' rights being trampled on tho, its also about young people (some highly vulnerable) transitioning at  immature ages, unnecessary surgeries, puberty blockers. Some dangerous stuff becoming orthodoxy.

Wanting to discuss it in a reasonable manner is not anti anything either. That has been a huge part of the problem, debate being shut down, people being black balled & vilified for daring to question anything.

fully agree with that. There is room for proper discussion on the matter. Linehan doesnt do that though, or if he does it gets lost amongst his nonsense

For your first sentence I agree that there should be a minimum age but having listened to some trans people on the topic, they would say if you wait until youre 18 then some male puberty changes have happened and it is too late by then. Thats them speaking form their own experiences

Got my last 5 fixtures slightly wrong...

Sunday 28th April v Dundee (A)
Saturday 4th May v Hearts (H)
Saturday 11th May v Huns (H)
Wednesday 15th May v Kilmarnock (A)
Saturday 18th May v St Mirren (H)

What Rangers run in?

Here you go you lazy bollix
    Sunday, April 28 - St Mirren (A) - 12.30pm.
    Sunday, May 5 - Kilmarnock (H) - 1pm.
    Saturday, May 11 - Celtic (A) - 12.30pm.
    Tuesday, May 14 - Dundee (H) - 7.30pm.
    Saturday, May 18 - Hearts (A) - 12.30pm.

If they lose tonight or any game prior to the 11th May, we can win the league against them

It was heartening to read some actual experiences and empathy.

I do find it odd that those who are so against trans rights have no personal experiences or skin in the game so as to speak. There certainly are issues that need to be worked through, but so many of the so called issues are concocted / over egged.

There's all this stuff about biological males in women spaces being a danger etc. Most trans people use non-gendered/disabled toilets afaik due to being self conscious and the same crowd oppose that too with bad faith arguments about cost  when it just means adding a sign to a disabled toilet.
There's also literally nothing stopping men from entering women's toilets. Someone who wants to sexually assault women or worse doesn't need to become trans to do that. The danger women most face are from men in general and especially those they know.

There's reasonable ways to sort out most of these issues sensitively, but the witch hunt against trans people isn't the way to deal with them. The IRFU banned all trans females from playing women's rugby, which affected all of two people as far as I know. That sends a terrible message to trans people. Size difference is an issue and that should be applied across all grades. Having a set of guidelines, for trans women and for children etc. (as is done in NZ) would have been the sensible thing to do, rather than bowing to a mob.

I'm not trans and it's not something I can relate to, but I am perturbed by how such a large group of people seem obsessed with the issue, which is whipping up terrible hate against a tiny minority of society who are some of the most vulnerable people. And seriously, our country and world has much more pressing issues and inequalities which affects everyone and not just a percentage of a percent .

Sexuality, gender and so much else about humans varies wildly. Just look across the world, now and historically.

great post

[That said I think he also deserves criticism for an ultra conservative approach to games against good teams.]

Is it really? Most counties have goals at the start of the year, get promoted, avoid relegation, beat neighbours etc. do they really need a coping mechanism of devaluing competitions, I seriously doubt it.  There are about 26 counties under the new system never going win Sam, Derry don't need another Ulster but will probably win it, any other county would relish it.

I believe JoG2 was referring the fans attempting to devalue a competition as a defense mechanism for if they don't win it. Armagh will have failed this year (again) if they do not win Ulster. How anyone can think different is beyond me.

Armagh will have failed agreed, Armagh will continue to fail until the County Board grows a set and get rid of McGeeney but they aren't devaluing it.  Who's these fans devaluing it two people on a discussion board, most counties would love to win Ulster, doubt Fermanagh, Antrim and Monaghan are sitting there thinking as sure it means nothing.

Would be a failure for Armagh not to reach the Ulster final. Derry will be strong favourites to win the final should they reach it.  Armagh comfortably bounced back to Div 1 and in 2025 will be their 4th year in the last 5 years to play in Div 1 and the last two years they reached the All Ireland quarter final only losing out on penalty shootouts.

Would another manager have got much more out of Armagh than McGeeney has? I highly doubt it when you consider Armagh haven't won U20/21 Ulster title since 2007 and U17/18 Ulster title since 2009 plus club football especially Crossmaglen hasn't been as strong as they use to be.

theres an opinion within Armagh that we have left behind an Ulster and at least one AISF in the last 2 years due to the negative tactics we have seen. So maybe another manager might, and I stress might, have achieved more than McGeeney. Or we could have got thumped in all those games

It's a tough one for me. I think Geezer deserves a lot of credit for building a strong squad with 23/24 players who I would consider all to be good inter county footballers albeit without too many superstars.

That said I think he also deserves criticism for an ultra conservative approach to games against good teams. Is that because

a he doesn't think Armagh are good enough to go toe to toe with a big team.

B Armagh are not good enough and he's trying to cover weaknesses

Or

C He lacks the ability to take Armagh to the next level.

For me the jury is still out. I would love to see us really go for teams with a fast flowing direct style of attack that we showed in some games over the last three years (Dublin at Croke Park for example). That way I think Armagh and Geezer could be fairly analysed.

If you listen to Monday's GAA Social Podcast, you'll hear Paddy Burns saying that they're sent out to play attacking football every game, and for some reason it doesn't come to pass every time ... he was adamant Kieran McGeeney sends them out to attack, attack, attack. 

Must have been the players who dropped turbo for a more defensive player against Monaghan then

Is it really? Most counties have goals at the start of the year, get promoted, avoid relegation, beat neighbours etc. do they really need a coping mechanism of devaluing competitions, I seriously doubt it.  There are about 26 counties under the new system never going win Sam, Derry don't need another Ulster but will probably win it, any other county would relish it.

I believe JoG2 was referring the fans attempting to devalue a competition as a defense mechanism for if they don't win it. Armagh will have failed this year (again) if they do not win Ulster. How anyone can think different is beyond me.

Armagh will have failed agreed, Armagh will continue to fail until the County Board grows a set and get rid of McGeeney but they aren't devaluing it.  Who's these fans devaluing it two people on a discussion board, most counties would love to win Ulster, doubt Fermanagh, Antrim and Monaghan are sitting there thinking as sure it means nothing.

Would be a failure for Armagh not to reach the Ulster final. Derry will be strong favourites to win the final should they reach it.  Armagh comfortably bounced back to Div 1 and in 2025 will be their 4th year in the last 5 years to play in Div 1 and the last two years they reached the All Ireland quarter final only losing out on penalty shootouts.

Would another manager have got much more out of Armagh than McGeeney has? I highly doubt it when you consider Armagh haven't won U20/21 Ulster title since 2007 and U17/18 Ulster title since 2009 plus club football especially Crossmaglen hasn't been as strong as they use to be.

theres an opinion within Armagh that we have left behind an Ulster and at least one AISF in the last 2 years due to the negative tactics we have seen. So maybe another manager might, and I stress might, have achieved more than McGeeney. Or we could have got thumped in all those games

It's a tough one for me. I think Geezer deserves a lot of credit for building a strong squad with 23/24 players who I would consider all to be good inter county footballers albeit without too many superstars.

That said I think he also deserves criticism for an ultra conservative approach to games against good teams. Is that because

a he doesn't think Armagh are good enough to go toe to toe with a big team.

B Armagh are not good enough and he's trying to cover weaknesses

Or

C He lacks the ability to take Armagh to the next level.

For me the jury is still out. I would love to see us really go for teams with a fast flowing direct style of attack that we showed in some games over the last three years (Dublin at Croke Park for example). That way I think Armagh and Geezer could be fairly analysed.

I definitely agree with the last sentence. If we play that style of football and lose-  a la Roscommon in Laois a few years ago - I could take it. Its the likes of the Monaghan game last year and Donegal a couple weeks ago which really irritate me

Armagh age profile not against then if they don't get sthing in the next 2/3yrs. Some of there best players are over 30

Yeah 4 massive players in Grugan, Forker, Murnin and Soupy all over 30 but I'd say theres a few years left in them yet. Grugan be the hardest replaced of those I think.

Murnin would be 34/35, hardly a few years left in him

He's 32 turns 33 in the summer

I take it back. It was 2009 he was on the minors. I had 2007 in my head. Morgan and Grugan the same age then