Man Utd Thread:

Started by full back, November 10, 2006, 08:13:49 AM

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Boycey


magpie seanie

Quote from: Maroon Manc on August 22, 2018, 11:13:13 PM
Mourinho has hardly been a massive failure, United finished 2nd last season achieving 12 more points then they did the year before. The football was poor and the CL exit was extremely tame so clearly he's not exempt from criticism but why give him a new contract 8 months ago if he wasn't going to be backed in the summer?

United have a large squad full of players on far too much money which United will struggle to move on and they've all either been bought by Woodward or he's given them new contracts, he's a very poor negotiator.

Mourinho has been backed but not to the extent that was required or to the extent Pep was and Pep inherited a team with a lot more quality; Klopp as it stands has out performed all of his rivals in the transfer market to be fair. United needed a complete overhaul inside the first 2 years and it never came, apparently Mourinho only buys players in their prime but Bailly, Lindelof, Fred, Pogba & Lukaku were all in their mid 20's and mostly younger when they were bought. Mourinho is far from blameless and off course he deserves criticism but United's problems run far deeper than him.

Woodward is way out of his depth.

There's no way he should have got a new contract. That was insanity. Insanity the club will pay for when they sack him (hopefully soon). Hirisng him in the first place was insanity though.

United are one of the richest clubs in the world. It's no reason for wasting money on the wrong players and giving exhorbitant contracts granted. However, to scapegoat Woodward totally for this is wrong. Mourinho's relationships with several super agents made these deals possible and they are players he identified. He's be crying to the media if Woodward didn't stump up to keep his buddies happy.

Woodward not being good at his job might mean the club wastes money. Which means less money for the Glazers to rob. I can live with that. I can't live with United not attempting to play in an attacking manner most of the time and a manager who criticises players and embarrasses the club at every turn when he opens his mouth. He's a cuckoo in a nest that was made by a different breed of bird. He needs to be got out before any real progress can be made. Klopp as you mentioned underlines how poor a job Mourinho is doing. Deschamps during the World Cup showed how poor a coach Mourihno now is.

magpie seanie

Quote from: Boycey on August 23, 2018, 08:32:39 AM
Crisis ffs  :D

It is a crisis. This is one of the biggest clubs in the world and some people are trying to portray a distant 2nd without ever being in contention as something to be encouraged by. Would that wash with Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich? That's the level United should be at. Not going out of the CL to the likes of Sevilla.

Ethan Tremblay

The whole mind frame and the player culture at united has changed and Mourinho isn't the guy to turn that around to what it was.  United did finish 2nd last season but they don't seem to have the same steel they once did to grind out results. 

Getting beat last year by Newcastle, Brighton, WBA, Huddersfield, drawing with Burnley and Southampton.  They have top players but they are more interested in their hairstyles or launching fashion ranges, which is all well and good, but when they are doing a substandard day job something needs looked at. 

Anyone who thinks 2nd place is a good result needs to go away and look at themselves. 
I tend to think of myself as a one man wolfpack...

seafoid

When a team is lost the players don't learn as a team, there is a lot of chopping and changing and the team loses against more organised outfits. This applies as much to GAA as to the EPL. Man Utd are lost.

Man City will probably win the Champions League in the next few years. Because they are organised and know what they are doing.
It is impossible to imagine Man Utd winning the Champions league. 10 year olds on the Continent if asked to name a team from Manchester would probably say City.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Geoff Tipps

United fans are sending another plane up!

Maroon Manc

Quote from: magpie seanie on August 23, 2018, 08:55:59 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on August 22, 2018, 11:13:13 PM
Mourinho has hardly been a massive failure, United finished 2nd last season achieving 12 more points then they did the year before. The football was poor and the CL exit was extremely tame so clearly he's not exempt from criticism but why give him a new contract 8 months ago if he wasn't going to be backed in the summer?

United have a large squad full of players on far too much money which United will struggle to move on and they've all either been bought by Woodward or he's given them new contracts, he's a very poor negotiator.

Mourinho has been backed but not to the extent that was required or to the extent Pep was and Pep inherited a team with a lot more quality; Klopp as it stands has out performed all of his rivals in the transfer market to be fair. United needed a complete overhaul inside the first 2 years and it never came, apparently Mourinho only buys players in their prime but Bailly, Lindelof, Fred, Pogba & Lukaku were all in their mid 20's and mostly younger when they were bought. Mourinho is far from blameless and off course he deserves criticism but United's problems run far deeper than him.

Woodward is way out of his depth.

There's no way he should have got a new contract. That was insanity. Insanity the club will pay for when they sack him (hopefully soon). Hirisng him in the first place was insanity though.

United are one of the richest clubs in the world. It's no reason for wasting money on the wrong players and giving exhorbitant contracts granted. However, to scapegoat Woodward totally for this is wrong. Mourinho's relationships with several super agents made these deals possible and they are players he identified. He's be crying to the media if Woodward didn't stump up to keep his buddies happy.

Woodward not being good at his job might mean the club wastes money. Which means less money for the Glazers to rob. I can live with that. I can't live with United not attempting to play in an attacking manner most of the time and a manager who criticises players and embarrasses the club at every turn when he opens his mouth. He's a cuckoo in a nest that was made by a different breed of bird. He needs to be got out before any real progress can be made. Klopp as you mentioned underlines how poor a job Mourinho is doing. Deschamps during the World Cup showed how poor a coach Mourihno now is.

The Glazers are ultimately to blame for the mess that the club is in but Fergie, Moyes, LVG, Mounrinho and Woodward have played their part in where United are today; The owners refused to invest in the squad and all the best players either left but mainly got old and weren't replaced by players of similar quality. Fergie was the brains behind Moyes who was clearly out of his depth and between him and LVG they wasted over £300m on players not good enough, some have moved on but its not easy to get rid of 13 players who are all on top money. I expected more from United last year in terms of points, thought they were capable of getting around 86 points they ended up with 81, expected more in Europe and thought we'd be slightly be better to watch but Mourinho has hardly been a disaster. Given the lack of spending this summer and what we already know about the squad the best we can hope for is 3rd and to win a cup and get to the last 8 in Europe. Mourinho has bought some very good players, most of them United would have no problem getting their money back on.

I've got no issues with the way he treats Shaw, he's a poor excuse for a professional and the same goes for Martial. I know for a fact what Martial is like so got no issues with the way he's dealt with him. As for Pogba his performances haven't been good enough but he knew what his agent was like when he signed him.

Mourinho is clearly to blame for some of whats going on but its not totally his fault.

johnnycool

You lads are looking at this all wrong.

The Glazers and Woodward are doing a great job in business terms.

Income and margins are great and not really impacted by coming second to Man City in the PL.

Granted a longer run in the CL would have been nice, but the money is still flowing into those US coffers.

ker ching.


brokencrossbar1

Hold on a second ... how the hell are the Glazers not backing managers?  Lukaku? Pogba? Sánchez package? Luke Shaw may not have worked out but they made him the most expensive teenager at the team in the world then broke it the following season with Martial!  Repeatedly they have backed managers and they have just fucked it up....well in some people's eyes. In my opinion, the players that are there could really challenge if they had the right man managing them. There is a rotten core in the club maybe but that's not the reason they are not doing what they can on the field.

seafoid

Quote from: johnnycool on August 23, 2018, 12:55:52 PM
You lads are looking at this all wrong.

The Glazers and Woodward are doing a great job in business terms.

Income and margins are great and not really impacted by coming second to Man City in the PL.

Granted a longer run in the CL would have been nice, but the money is still flowing into those US coffers.

ker ching.
Too many people think of Man Utd as a football team
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

magpie seanie

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 23, 2018, 01:01:10 PM
Hold on a second ... how the hell are the Glazers not backing managers?  Lukaku? Pogba? Sánchez package? Luke Shaw may not have worked out but they made him the most expensive teenager at the team in the world then broke it the following season with Martial!  Repeatedly they have backed managers and they have just fucked it up....well in some people's eyes. In my opinion, the players that are there could really challenge if they had the right man managing them. There is a rotten core in the club maybe but that's not the reason they are not doing what they can on the field.

Absolutely 100% agree.

Captain Obvious

#42446
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 23, 2018, 02:29:20 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 23, 2018, 01:01:10 PM
Hold on a second ... how the hell are the Glazers not backing managers?  Lukaku? Pogba? Sánchez package? Luke Shaw may not have worked out but they made him the most expensive teenager at the team in the world then broke it the following season with Martial!  Repeatedly they have backed managers and they have just fucked it up....well in some people’s eyes. In my opinion, the players that are there could really challenge if they had the right man managing them. There is a rotten core in the club maybe but that’s not the reason they are not doing what they can on the field.

Absolutely 100% agree.

In fairness lads 81 points is normally enough to challenge or in leicester city case two seasons ago win the league. Didn't challenge last year because Manchester City accumulated 100 points and if they repeat that points total this season they are unlikely to be challenged again.

Looking over last seasons results, two things i noticed, one Manchester United beat all 19 teams in the league and two never once did they concede 3 goals in a match. At the weekend 3 goals was conceded in the first half against Brighton so something doesn't just add up there.

trailer

Quote from: seafoid on August 23, 2018, 01:07:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 23, 2018, 12:55:52 PM
You lads are looking at this all wrong.

The Glazers and Woodward are doing a great job in business terms.

Income and margins are great and not really impacted by coming second to Man City in the PL.

Granted a longer run in the CL would have been nice, but the money is still flowing into those US coffers.

ker ching.
Too many people think of Man Utd as a football team

This is true. There's nothing to support anymore. It's a soulless corporation. A money making exercise. The football team is a lifeless corpse tagged onto overpriced key rings and corporate tie-ups.


Maroon Manc

Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 23, 2018, 02:57:59 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 23, 2018, 02:29:20 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 23, 2018, 01:01:10 PM
Hold on a second ... how the hell are the Glazers not backing managers?  Lukaku? Pogba? Sánchez package? Luke Shaw may not have worked out but they made him the most expensive teenager at the team in the world then broke it the following season with Martial!  Repeatedly they have backed managers and they have just fucked it up....well in some people's eyes. In my opinion, the players that are there could really challenge if they had the right man managing them. There is a rotten core in the club maybe but that's not the reason they are not doing what they can on the field.

Absolutely 100% agree.

In fairness lads 81 points is normally enough to challenge or in leicester city case two seasons ago win the league. Didn't challenge last year because Manchester City accumulated 100 points and if they repeat that points total this season they are unlikely to be challenged again.

Looking over last seasons results, two things i noticed, one Manchester United beat all 19 teams in the league and two never once did they concede 3 goals in a match. At the weekend 3 goals was conceded in the first half against Brighton so something doesn't just add up there.

I can't see city getting 100 points again, I'd say they'll get around 93 points give or take a few. United will probably get around the same as last year and thats probably been optimistic.

BC & Seanie- You's have got to be kidding thinking thinking that back 4 is good enough to challenge for a title. Are 1st choice fullbacks are failed wingers and are both 33, they do a good job but clearly aren't going to get any better. Bailly & Jones could be a very good pairing if they could stay fit but they won't. United have no chance of winning a league if Pep/Klopp or even Fergie were in charge with that back 4.

Mourinho can be criticised for his style of player and the lack of fluidity going forward and rightly so but there's no title challenge in that team and everyone knows that.