The IRISH RUGBY thread

[Maroon Manc]

Ireland strength in depth is very impressive but one issue was the lineout after Best & Toner went off, which one of the two was missed more or was it a combination of losing the two of them?

[AZOffaly]

Ireland strength in depth is very impressive but one issue was the lineout after Best & Toner went off, which one of the two was missed more or was it a combination of losing the two of them?

And O'Mahoney. Sean Cronin is average from the lineout, but I wouldn't say it's Rory's strength either.

[Hound]

Ireland strength in depth is very impressive but one issue was the lineout after Best & Toner went off, which one of the two was missed more or was it a combination of losing the two of them?

And O'Mahoney. Sean Cronin is average from the lineout, but I wouldn't say it's Rory's strength either.

Best and Marmion were about the only two lads I noticed who made multiple errors. Best's probably hurt more. But our lineout and scrum were immaculate when he was on the field and Best has to get a lot of credit for that. He also seems to have great leadership skills. But he's now very much in veteran stage and if he starts in the World Cup, I wonder would he be the oldest starting player of any of the Tier 1 teams? I would like to see Schmidt give 2 starts in the 6N to someone else just to have that other option.

Similarly Carberry needs a couple of 6N starts, just in case Johnny gets crocked.

Marmion's errors were mostly poor box kicks, but generally did well. Of course, Murray is arguably the best scrum half around, but with him not being there we perhaps kicked less ball to NZ than we would have if he'd started.

I think both Leavy and Van Der Flier are well ahead of O'Brien at this stage. I'd focus Seanie on Number 8 for the rest of the year and let him fight it out with Conan at Leinster and CJ at Ireland.

[seafoid]

Frank McNally in the Irish Times

"But wrong-footed or not, there were still several pairs of All Black legs, and a matching number of arms, between Stockdale and the line. Then he chipped the ball over them, and chased it like an electrified ferret."

what a fabulous line

[screenexile]

It's great to beat the All Blacks of course it is but we shouldn't be getting carried away. People talking of World Cups and the likes are losing the run of themselves.

The goal has to be a semi final as we've never done it before and anything above that is a bonus and the way it should be.

On any given day it's looking like Ireland/England/NZ/South Africa could beat eachother and you'd have to expect Wales and Australia would still fancy themselves in a one off. We will not win a Grand Slam in the upcoming 6 Nations.

There's a long way to go and we could get a load of injuries during the 6 Nations or even in the pool stages of the World Cup so we should all calm the baps.

We're in a good place let's hope we stay there.

[Cunny Funt]

It's great to beat the All Blacks of course it is but we shouldn't be getting carried away. People talking of World Cups and the likes are losing the run of themselves.

The goal has to be a semi final as we've never done it before and anything above that is a bonus and the way it should be.

On any given day it's looking like Ireland/England/NZ/South Africa could beat eachother and you'd have to expect Wales and Australia would still fancy themselves in a one off. We will not win a Grand Slam in the upcoming 6 Nations.

There's a long way to go and we could get a load of injuries during the 6 Nations or even in the pool stages of the World Cup so we should all calm the baps.

We're in a good place let's hope we stay there.

Why not? the momentum is there to win it but not the end of the world if they don't.

[screenexile]

It's great to beat the All Blacks of course it is but we shouldn't be getting carried away. People talking of World Cups and the likes are losing the run of themselves.

The goal has to be a semi final as we've never done it before and anything above that is a bonus and the way it should be.

On any given day it's looking like Ireland/England/NZ/South Africa could beat eachother and you'd have to expect Wales and Australia would still fancy themselves in a one off. We will not win a Grand Slam in the upcoming 6 Nations.

There's a long way to go and we could get a load of injuries during the 6 Nations or even in the pool stages of the World Cup so we should all calm the baps.

We're in a good place let's hope we stay there.

Why not? the momentum is there to win it but not the end of the world if they don't.

I just don't think it's sustainable. . . we conceivably could but England/Wales/France/Scotland will all be trying to knock us down if they get a chance. Our lads will have to maintain a very high level of performance over that time with a very short rest period.

I'd be happy enough if we didn't win the GS to dampen expectation a bit.

[seafoid]

It's great to beat the All Blacks of course it is but we shouldn't be getting carried away. People talking of World Cups and the likes are losing the run of themselves.

The goal has to be a semi final as we've never done it before and anything above that is a bonus and the way it should be.

On any given day it's looking like Ireland/England/NZ/South Africa could beat eachother and you'd have to expect Wales and Australia would still fancy themselves in a one off. We will not win a Grand Slam in the upcoming 6 Nations.

There's a long way to go and we could get a load of injuries during the 6 Nations or even in the pool stages of the World Cup so we should all calm the baps.

We're in a good place let's hope we stay there.

Why not? the momentum is there to win it but not the end of the world if they don't.

I just don't think it's sustainable. . . we conceivably could but England/Wales/France/Scotland will all be trying to knock us down if they get a chance. Our lads will have to maintain a very high level of performance over that time with a very short rest period.

I'd be happy enough if we didn't win the GS to dampen expectation a bit.

Me too. A semifinal is more important

[An Watcher]

I hope all this effort is not in vain as Ireland are due to meet the All Blacks or South Africa in the quarter finals of the world cup.  With everything going to form it'll be Ireland v SA.  Tough no matter how you look at it

[Baile Brigín 2]

While beating New Zealand is an achievement it still doesn't hide the fact that the win is tainted by using foreign mercenaries to achieve the result. You can't really call it an 'Irish" win when you're stacking your team with lads who have no actual ties to the country they play for.

Do you apply that logic to all sports within Ireland that have 'foreigners' ?

In this case some of the players have 0% connection to the country so realistically it's makes the win null and void as "Ireland".

At least Jack Charlton's lads had a granny (except Cascarino)

I think the Aki thing is cynical to a point where it might see a rule change. It wasnt a case of a player happening to be here. It was a structured and methodical pursuit of a promising center for the national team knowing we didnt have a minor in that position coming through. Thats what annoys the Kiwis. The fact they do tbe exact same is not the point as far as they are concerned.

Connaught have been taking 16 and 17 year old south africans and putting them in boarding school. Oh look, 20 and eligible for Ireland. And in positions that we just happen to be light in.

[AZOffaly]

While beating New Zealand is an achievement it still doesn't hide the fact that the win is tainted by using foreign mercenaries to achieve the result. You can't really call it an 'Irish" win when you're stacking your team with lads who have no actual ties to the country they play for.

Do you apply that logic to all sports within Ireland that have 'foreigners' ?

In this case some of the players have 0% connection to the country so realistically it's makes the win null and void as "Ireland".

At least Jack Charlton's lads had a granny (except Cascarino)

I think the Aki thing is cynical to a point where it might see a rule change. It wasnt a case of a player happening to be here. It was a structured and methodical pursuit of a promising center for the national team knowing we didnt have a minor in that position coming through. Thats what annoys the Kiwis. The fact they do tbe exact same is not the point as far as they are concerned.

Connaught have been taking 16 and 17 year old south africans and putting them in boarding school. Oh look, 20 and eligible for Ireland. And in positions that we just happen to be light in.

The perception that New Zealand poach young lads from abroad more than anyone else is very over exaggerated. As an example, for the time period of 2005-2017, the following are the numbers of players who made their first appearance and born at home, versus born abroad.

New Zealand - 107 debutants. 90 born in New Zealand, 17 outside. 84.11% at home
England - 126 debutants. 94 born in England, 32 outside. 74.60% at home.
Ireland - 106 debutants. 82 born in Ireland, 24 outside. 77.36% at home.


Australia are the worst. They had only 72.97% of players debuting in that timeframe born in Australia. 30 out of 111 were born outside Australia.

South Africa are the best. They had 96.40% born in South Africa, with only 4 out of 111 born outside South Africa.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/89379984/england-revealed-as-the-home-of-the-poacher

[Dolph1]

Van Der Flier was born and raised in Wicklow, to a father born and raised in Finglas. If you don't think he should be playing for Ireland, you need a long hard look at yourself.

So? There are a couple of others who invalidated that win at the weekend from being an actual Irish win.

[Maroon Manc]

While beating New Zealand is an achievement it still doesn't hide the fact that the win is tainted by using foreign mercenaries to achieve the result. You can't really call it an 'Irish" win when you're stacking your team with lads who have no actual ties to the country they play for.

Do you apply that logic to all sports within Ireland that have 'foreigners' ?

In this case some of the players have 0% connection to the country so realistically it's makes the win null and void as "Ireland".

At least Jack Charlton's lads had a granny (except Cascarino)

I think the Aki thing is cynical to a point where it might see a rule change. It wasnt a case of a player happening to be here. It was a structured and methodical pursuit of a promising center for the national team knowing we didnt have a minor in that position coming through. Thats what annoys the Kiwis. The fact they do tbe exact same is not the point as far as they are concerned.

Connaught have been taking 16 and 17 year old south africans and putting them in boarding school. Oh look, 20 and eligible for Ireland. And in positions that we just happen to be light in.

The perception that New Zealand poach young lads from abroad more than anyone else is very over exaggerated. As an example, for the time period of 2005-2017, the following are the numbers of players who made their first appearance and born at home, versus born abroad.

New Zealand - 107 debutants. 90 born in New Zealand, 17 outside. 84.11% at home
England - 126 debutants. 94 born in England, 32 outside. 74.60% at home.
Ireland - 106 debutants. 82 born in Ireland, 24 outside. 77.36% at home.


Australia are the worst. They had only 72.97% of players debuting in that timeframe born in Australia. 30 out of 111 were born outside Australia.

South Africa are the best. They had 96.40% born in South Africa, with only 4 out of 111 born outside South Africa.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/89379984/england-revealed-as-the-home-of-the-poacher

Wouldn't have thought Ireland had that many although several of those would have Irish blood in them like Marmion, Carbery, McGrath, Murphy & Dillane all have Irish blood in them.

[Baile Brigín 2]

While beating New Zealand is an achievement it still doesn't hide the fact that the win is tainted by using foreign mercenaries to achieve the result. You can't really call it an 'Irish" win when you're stacking your team with lads who have no actual ties to the country they play for.

Do you apply that logic to all sports within Ireland that have 'foreigners' ?

In this case some of the players have 0% connection to the country so realistically it's makes the win null and void as "Ireland".

At least Jack Charlton's lads had a granny (except Cascarino)

I think the Aki thing is cynical to a point where it might see a rule change. It wasnt a case of a player happening to be here. It was a structured and methodical pursuit of a promising center for the national team knowing we didnt have a minor in that position coming through. Thats what annoys the Kiwis. The fact they do tbe exact same is not the point as far as they are concerned.

Connaught have been taking 16 and 17 year old south africans and putting them in boarding school. Oh look, 20 and eligible for Ireland. And in positions that we just happen to be light in.

The perception that New Zealand poach young lads from abroad is very over exaggerated.

Maybe, maybe not. But they have a cultural and historical link to the south seas that we dont habe with SA

[Baile Brigín 2]

While beating New Zealand is an achievement it still doesn't hide the fact that the win is tainted by using foreign mercenaries to achieve the result. You can't really call it an 'Irish" win when you're stacking your team with lads who have no actual ties to the country they play for.

Do you apply that logic to all sports within Ireland that have 'foreigners' ?

In this case some of the players have 0% connection to the country so realistically it's makes the win null and void as "Ireland".

At least Jack Charlton's lads had a granny (except Cascarino)

I think the Aki thing is cynical to a point where it might see a rule change. It wasnt a case of a player happening to be here. It was a structured and methodical pursuit of a promising center for the national team knowing we didnt have a minor in that position coming through. Thats what annoys the Kiwis. The fact they do tbe exact same is not the point as far as they are concerned.

Connaught have been taking 16 and 17 year old south africans and putting them in boarding school. Oh look, 20 and eligible for Ireland. And in positions that we just happen to be light in.

The perception that New Zealand poach young lads from abroad more than anyone else is very over exaggerated. As an example, for the time period of 2005-2017, the following are the numbers of players who made their first appearance and born at home, versus born abroad.

New Zealand - 107 debutants. 90 born in New Zealand, 17 outside. 84.11% at home
England - 126 debutants. 94 born in England, 32 outside. 74.60% at home.
Ireland - 106 debutants. 82 born in Ireland, 24 outside. 77.36% at home.


Australia are the worst. They had only 72.97% of players debuting in that timeframe born in Australia. 30 out of 111 were born outside Australia.

South Africa are the best. They had 96.40% born in South Africa, with only 4 out of 111 born outside South Africa.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/89379984/england-revealed-as-the-home-of-the-poacher

I get that. The issue I have certainly  isnt with non Irish born players from tbe diaspora (O'Gara would be an example) or even lads who land here and stay. There is a cynicism around the IRFU approach that we will be discussing more in the next few years that is pushing the envelope..

We will field a majority non Irish born side in tbe next 10 years. At least under Charlton they were duaspora by and large.