Man Utd Thread:

Started by full back, November 10, 2006, 08:13:49 AM

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J70

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 01:47:38 PM
Of course it is a harsh penalty, but that's the way referees have been told to interpret it.
Players are going to have to adjust. The days of turning your arse towards the ball with your arms loose are gone.

Next thing we will see will be a player sliding in to block a shot, the ball hits his arm (which is exactly where it should be given how he has slid in and the position he has slid in from), ref blows for penalty. Will those days be gone too?

There needs to be some common sense.

Bord na Mona man

Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2019, 02:02:40 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 01:47:38 PM
Of course it is a harsh penalty, but that's the way referees have been told to interpret it.
Players are going to have to adjust. The days of turning your arse towards the ball with your arms loose are gone.

Next thing we will see will be a player sliding in to block a shot, the ball hits his arm (which is exactly where it should be given how he has slid in and the position he has slid in from), ref blows for penalty. Will those days be gone too?

There needs to be some common sense.
You'd assume that if a player slides in to block a shot, their intention is to block it with their legs?
If they don't manage that then they're taking a hostage to fortune.

Boycey

Jaysus lads let it go, it was contentious but it's gone enjoy the moment before we get stuffed in the next round  ;D

J70

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 02:14:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2019, 02:02:40 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 01:47:38 PM
Of course it is a harsh penalty, but that's the way referees have been told to interpret it.
Players are going to have to adjust. The days of turning your arse towards the ball with your arms loose are gone.

Next thing we will see will be a player sliding in to block a shot, the ball hits his arm (which is exactly where it should be given how he has slid in and the position he has slid in from), ref blows for penalty. Will those days be gone too?

There needs to be some common sense.
You'd assume that if a player slides in to block a shot, their intention is to block it with their legs?
If they don't manage that then they're taking a hostage to fortune.

It should be about intent.

To use another example... two lads go up together for a header, each with arms in natural positions for what they're doing, ball ricochets or spills and bounces onto one of their arms, absolutely zero intent to handle. Is that a foul?

Because the way we seem to be heading, it would appear so.

We are going to have to have players use arm restraints.

J70

Quote from: Boycey on March 07, 2019, 02:31:11 PM
Jaysus lads let it go, it was contentious but it's gone enjoy the moment before we get stuffed in the next round  ;D

Enjoy away. I'd enjoy it too if I were you.

This is not about rivalries or who the teams where. It's just a discussion of whether it was the correct decision and, if it was, whether it should have been. Purely academic.

Itchy

Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2019, 02:36:10 PM
Quote from: Boycey on March 07, 2019, 02:31:11 PM
Jaysus lads let it go, it was contentious but it's gone enjoy the moment before we get stuffed in the next round  ;D

Enjoy away. I'd enjoy it too if I were you.

This is not about rivalries or who the teams where. It's just a discussion of whether it was the correct decision and, if it was, whether it should have been. Purely academic.

It seems it was a penalty by t he new rules but for me the new rules are ridiculous if that is considered a penalty. Absolutely no intent to handle the ball.

Bord na Mona man

Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2019, 02:34:18 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 02:14:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2019, 02:02:40 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 01:47:38 PM
Of course it is a harsh penalty, but that's the way referees have been told to interpret it.
Players are going to have to adjust. The days of turning your arse towards the ball with your arms loose are gone.

Next thing we will see will be a player sliding in to block a shot, the ball hits his arm (which is exactly where it should be given how he has slid in and the position he has slid in from), ref blows for penalty. Will those days be gone too?

There needs to be some common sense.
You'd assume that if a player slides in to block a shot, their intention is to block it with their legs?
If they don't manage that then they're taking a hostage to fortune.

It should be about intent.

To use another example... two lads go up together for a header, each with arms in natural positions for what they're doing, ball ricochets or spills and bounces onto one of their arms, absolutely zero intent to handle. Is that a foul?

Because the way we seem to be heading, it would appear so.

We are going to have to have players use arm restraints.
Many's the defender slid in intending to win the ball but missed it and tripped the striker instead.

TabClear

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 02:56:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2019, 02:34:18 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 02:14:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2019, 02:02:40 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 01:47:38 PM
Of course it is a harsh penalty, but that's the way referees have been told to interpret it.
Players are going to have to adjust. The days of turning your arse towards the ball with your arms loose are gone.

Next thing we will see will be a player sliding in to block a shot, the ball hits his arm (which is exactly where it should be given how he has slid in and the position he has slid in from), ref blows for penalty. Will those days be gone too?

There needs to be some common sense.
You'd assume that if a player slides in to block a shot, their intention is to block it with their legs?
If they don't manage that then they're taking a hostage to fortune.

It should be about intent.

To use another example... two lads go up together for a header, each with arms in natural positions for what they're doing, ball ricochets or spills and bounces onto one of their arms, absolutely zero intent to handle. Is that a foul?

Because the way we seem to be heading, it would appear so.

We are going to have to have players use arm restraints.
Many's the defender slid in intending to win the ball but missed it and tripped the striker instead.

Open to correction here but i think deliberate action is included in the handball rule but not a trip?

JoG2

Quote from: TabClear on March 07, 2019, 03:30:32 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 02:56:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2019, 02:34:18 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 02:14:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2019, 02:02:40 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 01:47:38 PM
Of course it is a harsh penalty, but that's the way referees have been told to interpret it.
Players are going to have to adjust. The days of turning your arse towards the ball with your arms loose are gone.

Next thing we will see will be a player sliding in to block a shot, the ball hits his arm (which is exactly where it should be given how he has slid in and the position he has slid in from), ref blows for penalty. Will those days be gone too?

There needs to be some common sense.
You'd assume that if a player slides in to block a shot, their intention is to block it with their legs?
If they don't manage that then they're taking a hostage to fortune.

It should be about intent.

To use another example... two lads go up together for a header, each with arms in natural positions for what they're doing, ball ricochets or spills and bounces onto one of their arms, absolutely zero intent to handle. Is that a foul?

Because the way we seem to be heading, it would appear so.

We are going to have to have players use arm restraints.
Many's the defender slid in intending to win the ball but missed it and tripped the striker instead.

Open to correction here but i think deliberate action is included in the handball rule but not a trip?

It was always thought it was based on 'intent', but as discussed last night during the VAR wait, refs had recently  been instructed to award penalties if the ball hits an out stretched arm. One of the BT Sports commentators was convinced it was a penalty based on the latest instructions to refs. Now I'll admit I don't watch many games these days but I was very surprised it was given tbh. I'm not sure if the rule has been changed / amended to include this new instruction. Surely it has been. Ridiculous imo

J70

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 02:56:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2019, 02:34:18 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 02:14:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2019, 02:02:40 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 01:47:38 PM
Of course it is a harsh penalty, but that's the way referees have been told to interpret it.
Players are going to have to adjust. The days of turning your arse towards the ball with your arms loose are gone.

Next thing we will see will be a player sliding in to block a shot, the ball hits his arm (which is exactly where it should be given how he has slid in and the position he has slid in from), ref blows for penalty. Will those days be gone too?

There needs to be some common sense.
You'd assume that if a player slides in to block a shot, their intention is to block it with their legs?
If they don't manage that then they're taking a hostage to fortune.

It should be about intent.

To use another example... two lads go up together for a header, each with arms in natural positions for what they're doing, ball ricochets or spills and bounces onto one of their arms, absolutely zero intent to handle. Is that a foul?

Because the way we seem to be heading, it would appear so.

We are going to have to have players use arm restraints.
Many's the defender slid in intending to win the ball but missed it and tripped the striker instead.

You're saying they're the same thing?

A ball over which the defender has neither control nor idea of where it is going to go hitting him in the hand/arm through no fault of his own is the same as a player launching into a slide tackle, knowing that the opponent and the ball are going to be in roughly the same spot?

J70

Quote from: JoG2 on March 07, 2019, 03:51:18 PM
Quote from: TabClear on March 07, 2019, 03:30:32 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 02:56:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2019, 02:34:18 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 02:14:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2019, 02:02:40 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 01:47:38 PM
Of course it is a harsh penalty, but that's the way referees have been told to interpret it.
Players are going to have to adjust. The days of turning your arse towards the ball with your arms loose are gone.

Next thing we will see will be a player sliding in to block a shot, the ball hits his arm (which is exactly where it should be given how he has slid in and the position he has slid in from), ref blows for penalty. Will those days be gone too?

There needs to be some common sense.
You'd assume that if a player slides in to block a shot, their intention is to block it with their legs?
If they don't manage that then they're taking a hostage to fortune.

It should be about intent.

To use another example... two lads go up together for a header, each with arms in natural positions for what they're doing, ball ricochets or spills and bounces onto one of their arms, absolutely zero intent to handle. Is that a foul?

Because the way we seem to be heading, it would appear so.

We are going to have to have players use arm restraints.
Many's the defender slid in intending to win the ball but missed it and tripped the striker instead.

Open to correction here but i think deliberate action is included in the handball rule but not a trip?

It was always thought it was based on 'intent', but as discussed last night during the VAR wait, refs had recently  been instructed to award penalties if the ball hits an out stretched arm. One of the BT Sports commentators was convinced it was a penalty based on the latest instructions to refs. Now I'll admit I don't watch many games these days but I was very surprised it was given tbh. I'm not sure if the rule has been changed / amended to include this new instruction. Surely it has been. Ridiculous imo

"Outstretched" arm?




Falcao

Quote from: magpie seanie on March 07, 2019, 10:20:01 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 07, 2019, 09:56:30 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on March 07, 2019, 09:53:09 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 07, 2019, 09:21:40 AM
Can't profess to love PSG too much, great win for United.

But to call that a penalty? In the last minute, of the biggest competition in the World?

Outrageous - Shambolic decision. PSG have been done here.....but will find sympathy in short supply one suspects.


Read the rules my friend. It was a cast iron definite penalty. Rules on handball were changed recently with introduction of VAR. If arms aren't by your side it's a penalty. Karma for Kimpembe after him somehow avoiding getting sent off in the first leg and then scoring to opener. You could see he knew it himself that it was a penalty.

Ah come on, the shot was going high and probably wide. There are rules, then there is common sense. You can't seriously say it was a penalty. Karma or not. I'd be very certain another ref does not give this. It'll be interesting to see the next UCL instance of this.

Here you go.

https://m.sport24.co.za/Soccer/International/ifab-redefine-handball-rule-among-other-law-changes-20190305

These rule changes don't come in until next season, quote from the article:

"The International Football Association Board (IFAB) has announced five major rule changes that will be implemented for the upcoming 2019/20 season"

Current rules still state that it must be a deliberate act and that the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an offence.


Taylor

Gary Linekar (think it was him) said last night that he thought if it was a handball, regardless of intent/making yourself bigger etc it should be called a free.

Not a bad idea but no doubt you would then have players deliberately flicking the ball to the arm etc

JoG2

Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2019, 04:03:27 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 07, 2019, 03:51:18 PM
Quote from: TabClear on March 07, 2019, 03:30:32 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 02:56:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2019, 02:34:18 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 02:14:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2019, 02:02:40 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on March 07, 2019, 01:47:38 PM
Of course it is a harsh penalty, but that's the way referees have been told to interpret it.
Players are going to have to adjust. The days of turning your arse towards the ball with your arms loose are gone.

Next thing we will see will be a player sliding in to block a shot, the ball hits his arm (which is exactly where it should be given how he has slid in and the position he has slid in from), ref blows for penalty. Will those days be gone too?

There needs to be some common sense.
You'd assume that if a player slides in to block a shot, their intention is to block it with their legs?
If they don't manage that then they're taking a hostage to fortune.

It should be about intent.

To use another example... two lads go up together for a header, each with arms in natural positions for what they're doing, ball ricochets or spills and bounces onto one of their arms, absolutely zero intent to handle. Is that a foul?

Because the way we seem to be heading, it would appear so.

We are going to have to have players use arm restraints.
Many's the defender slid in intending to win the ball but missed it and tripped the striker instead.

Open to correction here but i think deliberate action is included in the handball rule but not a trip?

It was always thought it was based on 'intent', but as discussed last night during the VAR wait, refs had recently  been instructed to award penalties if the ball hits an out stretched arm. One of the BT Sports commentators was convinced it was a penalty based on the latest instructions to refs. Now I'll admit I don't watch many games these days but I was very surprised it was given tbh. I'm not sure if the rule has been changed / amended to include this new instruction. Surely it has been. Ridiculous imo

"Outstretched" arm?





In fairness, his arm was out a bit but pulled in quickly. I'll enjoy seeing defenders jumping to head the ball with their arms behind their backs or down by their sides parallel to the body ... Will be very Monty Pythonesque

Boycey

Just watched the closing stages on BT there, where did the ref get the extra 6 minutes of injury time he added to the 3 mins already allocated? I checked there it was just over 2 mins from going to look at VAR to award of peno, PSG argued and attempted to intimidate Rashford for 2ish mins, should time really be added for that? 30 secs for goal? My head was gone, I'd of been relatively happy at winning 2-1 but to win and have it snatched away would have been cruel.