Messi or Ronaldo - Who's best

[nrico2006]

Shevchenko was highly rated, but the reality of where he stands on the list of all time greats was shown when he couldnt cut it in the Premier League.

[Angelo]

Just think of the amount of goals peak messi and ronaldo would have scored during Nedved and Shevchenko 'era'. They would have been hitting 40+ league goals for fun in a slower paced game dancing around slow bulky defenders with zero pace

You're off your head.

If Van Dijk is one of the best defenders in the world right now then I think it tells you all you need to know about the abysmal state of the game at present. Messi generally struggled against Italian teams, he has been absolutely pathetic at the business end of international tournaments without his star studded supporting cast.

Whatever about Cristiano Ronaldo, Messi is a complete one trick pony, when you put in place a highly energetic team who are all technically proficient and can play these one touch pass triangles then there is nobody better than him - but when you take him out of that and you ask him to deliver outside his comforts then he fails consistently.

At least CR7 can say he has done it in England, Spain and Italy. Messi has done it with a great Barcelona team who had plenty of once in a generation talents too playing alongside him - Argentina with always be the death knell for Messi. Guys like Di Maria and Mascherano were the leaders and the main men in those Argentina sides. They were a non-scoring well drilled outfit and Messi just couldn't deliver.

0 goals in 8 WC knockout matches - failure but if he scores 4 goals agaisnt Levante or Eibar then he's the greatest, apparently.

Yea 12 goals in 19 games against Italian teams in the champions league really shows how much he has struggled

Your facts are both incorrect and compltely lacking in context.

0 goals in 4 games against Inter.
8 goals in 8 games against Milan (4 of those from penalties). One of those games contained a brace of goals in a 4-0 win, so he's scored from play in 3 of 8 appearances against Milan.
2 goals in 4 games against Roma - both goals coming in a brace in a 6-1 Barca win in the group stage, failed to score in the other 3 games
2 goals in 5 games against Juve - both goals coming in a 3-0 group stage win over Juventus, failed to score in the other 4 games.
1 goal against Napoli in 2 games.
0 goal against Udinese in 1 game.


I make that 11 goals in 22 games, 7 goals from play in 22 games. So I make it that Messi has only managed to score a goal that didn't come for a penalty kick in 6 of his 22 appearances against Italian sides, meaning that he has failed to score a non-penalty goal in 16 of the 22 games he has played against Italian opposition - not the most impressive of readings now is it?

[Angelo]

Shevchenko was highly rated, but the reality of where he stands on the list of all time greats was shown when he couldnt cut it in the Premier League.

Shevchenko arrived to the EPL in his 30s, he was done.

Thierry Henry couldn't hack it in Italy and didn't really do too much in La Liga either. Will you write him off too?

Messi has only done it at Barcelona, he has also stank the stage out on international level, playing for one of the traditional superpowers of international football.

[Nanderson]

Shevchenko was highly rated, but the reality of where he stands on the list of all time greats was shown when he couldnt cut it in the Premier League.

Shevchenko arrived to the EPL in his 30s, he was done.

Thierry Henry couldn't hack it in Italy and didn't really do too much in La Liga either. Will you write him off too?

Messi has only done it at Barcelona, he has also stank the stage out on international level, playing for one of the traditional superpowers of international football.

Stats can be very misleading. You claim Totti as being better than Messi yet has only scored 1 goal in 14 games against English opposition in UCL. Nedved 2 in 14 against English teams. Shev got 2 in 10. Lets face it some teams struggle when facing a different type of team. Italian league is traditionally slower so couldnt handle pace of the premier league teams. La Liga is traditionally filled with smaller more technical players who couldnt handle the physicality of the Italian league. Messi has blitzed spanish teams, english teams, german teams and as your stats show he struggled against the Italians.

Would just like to throw another underrated player into the mix of Van Basten. Think he retired at 28 with injuries but had a phenomenal goal scoring record. Also it would have been interesting to see what sort of player brazilian ronaldo would have been if it wasn't for his knee injuries and later thyroid issues. Think he would have been the GOAT with probably a goal every game sort of ratio

[Angelo]

Shevchenko was highly rated, but the reality of where he stands on the list of all time greats was shown when he couldnt cut it in the Premier League.

Shevchenko arrived to the EPL in his 30s, he was done.

Thierry Henry couldn't hack it in Italy and didn't really do too much in La Liga either. Will you write him off too?

Messi has only done it at Barcelona, he has also stank the stage out on international level, playing for one of the traditional superpowers of international football.

Stats can be very misleading. You claim Totti as being better than Messi yet has only scored 1 goal in 14 games against English opposition in UCL. Nedved 2 in 14 against English teams. Shev got 2 in 10. Lets face it some teams struggle when facing a different type of team. Italian league is traditionally slower so couldnt handle pace of the premier league teams. La Liga is traditionally filled with smaller more technical players who couldnt handle the physicality of the Italian league. Messi has blitzed spanish teams, english teams, german teams and as your stats show he struggled against the Italians.

Would just like to throw another underrated player into the mix of Van Basten. Think he retired at 28 with injuries but had a phenomenal goal scoring record. Also it would have been interesting to see what sort of player brazilian ronaldo would have been if it wasn't for his knee injuries and later thyroid issues. Think he would have been the GOAT with probably a goal every game sort of ratio

Totti was never really a noted goalscorer until Spalletti moved him into a striker position in his 30s, previously he was an advanced midfielder who created the play, someone who dropped deep and let bodies get ahead of him, Totti is hands down the best one touch passer to ever play the game, nobody could play the game as good as Totti with their back to goal. For the majority of his career, his duty was to provide for the out the out and out strikers.

And it's also worth noting Roma weren't that successful, bar a few years under Capello they spent most of their time in financial difficulties.

Nedved always was a tireless midfielder, he chipped in with goals on an intermittent basis but goals would always have been the responsibility of players like Trezeguet, Del Piero, Inzaghi, Ibrahimovic.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

Messi has always been a goalscorer, it's what his game has been about, teams have been completely built around him but as playing with Argentina has shown, when the perfect environment and supporting cast isn't there to play his type of game - he doesn't look like half the player he does at Barcelona.

[nrico2006]

Shevchenko was highly rated, but the reality of where he stands on the list of all time greats was shown when he couldnt cut it in the Premier League.

Shevchenko arrived to the EPL in his 30s, he was done.

Thierry Henry couldn't hack it in Italy and didn't really do too much in La Liga either. Will you write him off too?

Messi has only done it at Barcelona, he has also stank the stage out on international level, playing for one of the traditional superpowers of international football.

He arrived at Chelsea when he was 29 and there were no signs of him being done in his previous season at Milan hence Chelsea paying big bucks for him.

[ONeill]

Surely David Healy deserves a mention in this company.

[Angelo]

Shevchenko was highly rated, but the reality of where he stands on the list of all time greats was shown when he couldnt cut it in the Premier League.

Shevchenko arrived to the EPL in his 30s, he was done.

Thierry Henry couldn't hack it in Italy and didn't really do too much in La Liga either. Will you write him off too?

Messi has only done it at Barcelona, he has also stank the stage out on international level, playing for one of the traditional superpowers of international football.

He arrived at Chelsea when he was 29 and there were no signs of him being done in his previous season at Milan hence Chelsea paying big bucks for him.

He arrived at Chelsea when he was 29 and turned 30 a couple of weeks later. There were evident signs of him being done at Milan. He went back on a loan spell two years later and failed to score for them in 18 Serie A appearances, his legs had shown big signs of going. I don't think Mourinho being in charge really helped either as he wanted a big target man type player like Drogba.

When players hit the 30 mark they can pretty much go off the boil overnight, it's much more common for strikers as a striker generally relies on their movement and an ability to get in behind defences, when they slow up they lose that and Shevchenko's game was based around playing off the shoulder and his movement.

The only thing we know about Messi is that outside of Barcelona, he has disappointed majorly with Argentina.

[screenexile]

Surely David Healy deserves a mention in this company.

Good shout he's done more on the International stage than Messi surely!!!

[Angelo]

Surely David Healy deserves a mention in this company.

Good shout he's done more on the International stage than Messi surely!!!

I know you say it in jest but it really highlights how pathetic a guy labeled as the best ever has been outside of Barcelona.

[BennyCake]

I remember Shevchenko at Chelsea. He was such a different player from his time at Milan.

I kept thinking they'd bought his brother Dave Shevchenko instead.

[nrico2006]

Messi has scored 70 goals at international level by the way, alot more than Shevchenko who was a striker.  He is essentially the 5th top scorer internationally of all time.

[Angelo]

Messi has scored 70 goals at international level by the way, alot more than Shevchenko who was a striker.  He is essentially the 5th top scorer internationally of all time.

Messi played for Argentina, 2x WC winner and 14x Copa America winners. He's won nothing with them. He is noted for collapsing at major international tournaments, he might be a good man to score a hat trick in a friendly or against cannon fodder though.

Shevchenko played for Ukraine who have only qualified for the WC once in their history when Shevchenko was their captain and they made it as far as the QF stage.

34 of Messi's 70 international goals have come in friendlies.

8 of Shevchenko's 48 international goals came in friendlies.

[Tony Baloney]

https://twitter.com/TomasORuanaidh/status/1299655314485149696?s=09

His balance is sublime. The balance allows him to do what he wants with his feet. He's at the very least the best for a generation - I don't know how it is an argument. Sheva isn't even part of the same conversation! You'll not find 9 mins of Sheva.

[Estimator]

Surely David Healy deserves a mention in this company.

Good shout he's done more on the International stage than Messi surely!!!

Peter Crouch should also be in the mix here.. better goals per game ratio (at international level) than Shearer, Rooney, Charlton and Owen.