Poppy Watch

[michaelg]

There's no funding of a war machine Benny, it's a charity and that's that. The BBC and other media outlets will have their own agenda, the charity is , for me the poppy only represents the first and second World Wars, after that it's a tool by others to rub peoples noses in it, if you feel annoyed about it then you are letting that side of things win.

It's the same stuff every year.

Can you not see how offensive a view that is to people in the Unionist community?  I attended church and school Remebrance Services as a child which were respectful and solemn occasions.  It is also quite a conceited view to think that everyone who wears a poppy in NI does so to simply wind up Nationalists.

And for those who have genuine reasons for remembrance I've absolutely no problem, my point, that you didn't highlight in my post was the fact that the UDA/UVF hold remembrance days and remember their fallen 'hero's'  and have a speech about never surrendering.. by the same token on Easter you'll hear the same stuff up at Milltown.. (not my house  )

You do understand that many nationalist have grievances with the UDR RUC and the loyalist paramilitaries and during these remembrance days it becomes a political tool. If you don't think that then I can't help you understand where I'm coming from.

Fair enough.  I abhor paramilitaries from all hues and certainly have no time for the knuckledragging UDA and UVF, nor their remembrance days, which seem to be an excuse to go and bender and have a fight if the media reports that follow them are to be believed. I would not, however, lump the UDR, RUC and the loyalist paramilities together in the same way as you have.

You have a serious amount of reading to do then!!

Thought this was a good article a few weeks back by Trevor Ringland.  Unfortunately it can't all be accessed from link below, but provided a bit of balance and perspective that is often omitted on here.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/comment/broadcasters-have-a-duty-to-reflect-that-our-history-is-complicated-unquiet-graves-didnt-do-that-39661398.html

[dec]

There's no funding of a war machine Benny, it's a charity and that's that. The BBC and other media outlets will have their own agenda, the charity is , for me the poppy only represents the first and second World Wars, after that it's a tool by others to rub peoples noses in it, if you feel annoyed about it then you are letting that side of things win.

It's the same stuff every year.

Can you not see how offensive a view that is to people in the Unionist community?  I attended church and school Remebrance Services as a child which were respectful and solemn occasions.  It is also quite a conceited view to think that everyone who wears a poppy in NI does so to simply wind up Nationalists.

And for those who have genuine reasons for remembrance I've absolutely no problem, my point, that you didn't highlight in my post was the fact that the UDA/UVF hold remembrance days and remember their fallen 'hero's'  and have a speech about never surrendering.. by the same token on Easter you'll hear the same stuff up at Milltown.. (not my house  )

You do understand that many nationalist have grievances with the UDR RUC and the loyalist paramilitaries and during these remembrance days it becomes a political tool. If you don't think that then I can't help you understand where I'm coming from.

Fair enough.  I abhor paramilitaries from all hues and certainly have no time for the knuckledragging UDA and UVF, nor their remembrance days, which seem to be an excuse to go and bender and have a fight if the media reports that follow them are to be believed. I would not, however, lump the UDR, RUC and the loyalist paramilities together in the same way as you have.

You have a serious amount of reading to do then!!

Thought this was a good article a few weeks back by Trevor Ringland.  Unfortunately it can't all be accessed from link below, but provided a bit of balance and perspective that is often omitted on here.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/comment/broadcasters-have-a-duty-to-reflect-that-our-history-is-complicated-unquiet-graves-didnt-do-that-39661398.html

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/belfast-telegraph/20201024/281917365572205

[restorepride]

There's no funding of a war machine Benny, it's a charity and that's that. The BBC and other media outlets will have their own agenda, the charity is , for me the poppy only represents the first and second World Wars, after that it's a tool by others to rub peoples noses in it, if you feel annoyed about it then you are letting that side of things win.

It's the same stuff every year.

Can you not see how offensive a view that is to people in the Unionist community?  I attended church and school Remebrance Services as a child which were respectful and solemn occasions.  It is also quite a conceited view to think that everyone who wears a poppy in NI does so to simply wind up Nationalists.

And for those who have genuine reasons for remembrance I've absolutely no problem, my point, that you didn't highlight in my post was the fact that the UDA/UVF hold remembrance days and remember their fallen 'hero's'  and have a speech about never surrendering.. by the same token on Easter you'll hear the same stuff up at Milltown.. (not my house  )

You do understand that many nationalist have grievances with the UDR RUC and the loyalist paramilitaries and during these remembrance days it becomes a political tool. If you don't think that then I can't help you understand where I'm coming from.

Fair enough.  I abhor paramilitaries from all hues and certainly have no time for the knuckledragging UDA and UVF, nor their remembrance days, which seem to be an excuse to go and bender and have a fight if the media reports that follow them are to be believed. I would not, however, lump the UDR, RUC and the loyalist paramilities together in the same way as you have.

You have a serious amount of reading to do then!!

Thought this was a good article a few weeks back by Trevor Ringland.  Unfortunately it can't all be accessed from link below, but provided a bit of balance and perspective that is often omitted on here.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/comment/broadcasters-have-a-duty-to-reflect-that-our-history-is-complicated-unquiet-graves-didnt-do-that-39661398.html

Balance?! Trevor Ringland???!!  FFS!  "Our history" is only complicated when you want to make it so.   Next thing, it will be a "shared history"!   Can I take your land?  No.  But I'm taking it anyway.  So that is a shared decision?  Well, I did share the decision with you.  Thanks Trevor.   

[6th sam]

There's no funding of a war machine Benny, it's a charity and that's that. The BBC and other media outlets will have their own agenda, the charity is , for me the poppy only represents the first and second World Wars, after that it's a tool by others to rub peoples noses in it, if you feel annoyed about it then you are letting that side of things win.

It's the same stuff every year.

Can you not see how offensive a view that is to people in the Unionist community?  I attended church and school Remebrance Services as a child which were respectful and solemn occasions.  It is also quite a conceited view to think that everyone who wears a poppy in NI does so to simply wind up Nationalists.

And for those who have genuine reasons for remembrance I've absolutely no problem, my point, that you didn't highlight in my post was the fact that the UDA/UVF hold remembrance days and remember their fallen 'hero's'  and have a speech about never surrendering.. by the same token on Easter you'll hear the same stuff up at Milltown.. (not my house  )

You do understand that many nationalist have grievances with the UDR RUC and the loyalist paramilitaries and during these remembrance days it becomes a political tool. If you don't think that then I can't help you understand where I'm coming from.

Fair enough.  I abhor paramilitaries from all hues and certainly have no time for the knuckledragging UDA and UVF, nor their remembrance days, which seem to be an excuse to go and bender and have a fight if the media reports that follow them are to be believed. I would not, however, lump the UDR, RUC and the loyalist paramilities together in the same way as you have.

You have a serious amount of reading to do then!!

Thought this was a good article a few weeks back by Trevor Ringland.  Unfortunately it can't all be accessed from link below, but provided a bit of balance and perspective that is often omitted on here.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/comment/broadcasters-have-a-duty-to-reflect-that-our-history-is-complicated-unquiet-graves-didnt-do-that-39661398.html

Yes Trevor certainly gives another perspective ,a "unionist" perspective . As far as I can see in that article , he basically rationalises the glenAnne gang and Holy Cross . he tries to present himself as a neutral voice. He's from a unionist background  , which I respect, His dad was in the RUC which subjected him to genuine trauma and anxiety , which I respect . Rationalising glenAnne and holy cross , and yet trying to present himself as a voice of neutrality , I don't respect .
I'm Irish, I don't pretend to be neutral , neither should Trevor be viewed as a neutral despite his brilliance as an Irish rugby international rugby , and his profession as a solicitor . Quoting numbers of death is irrelevant unless subject to analysis. It appears Many Loyalist and even republican killings were directed by British intelligence. The only incontrovertible statistic is that there were over 3000 deaths and all of them were tragic for families and friends. We need to move beyond that and that includes those on the British and Irish side admitting their wrongs and showing genuine remorse. This is long overdue and many victims understandably can't move on until there is that recognition .

[Applesisapples]

Christ we need to get a grip here. The Poppy is only contentious here because of the army's deployment in the troubles and the fact that it is used by Unionists as a political symbol. Across the water it is just another charity that does much needed work with army veterans often neglected by the very government the fought for. Whatever issue I have with the army here, I have to recognise that in Britain they are mainly working class lads with little opportunity and it resonates with the public. As such if Paul O'Connell chooses to work for the BBC and is required to wear a poppy, what of it. He presumably needs to earn a crust. We need a slightly more mature approach.

There is plenty of criticism of poppies and poppy culture in Britain


He shouldn't have to wear a political symbol to earn a living.

Its only political here, and is widely respected by the public in Britain.

Have to say I agree with MR, I tend to associate the poppy with genuine people commemorating the world war dead, or other military deaths, and I totally support that. My bugbear however is the treatment of McClean.
Just to clarify "Apples" , you are implying that , calling out the racist abuse of James McClean, effectively endorsed by Irish people who wear a poppy on TV because they're "earning a crust" Is immature? It reminds me of "knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing".
I Totally respect the argument re British working class joining their army, and I think they are often exploited and deserve support from their government as opposed to having to depend on charity donations. I also can understand those with family connections in the army, or simply British patriots supporting a British cause, but I resent the implication that  challenging Selective poppy wearing by Irish people is immature. The BLM movement reinforces the evidence that if you call out racism , it has a positive effect . Mcclean Tbf had the courage to respectfully explain his reasons for not wearing the poppy. Any mature analysis would respect McClean's reasoning . I'd love to hear Paul O'Connell explain his rationale for wearing one (and mcclean has clearly said he supports anyone's right to do so) , but also back McClean's right not to wear one. I can not understand how the racist attitudes towards Mcclean seem to be accepted across the board, even by his fellow Irish sporting internationals. No wonder Our national "teams" rarely succeed. Maybe we could learn something from
Our British neighbours re patriotism , loyalty and support for our own?

I am not condoning the racist abuse of James McClean he has a right not to wear a poppy and to be respected. What I am saying is that for most of us we need to respect that the poppy means something to many English people. We need to grow up and stop picking at scabs. We can't change history and I don't condone the actions of the army in Ireland, but 90% of those soldiers sent here would rather have been anywhere else. Irish people committed atrocities also in the name of war. I am older than a lot of posters on here and grew up in this cesspit. I want better for my children and grandchildren.

[armaghniac]

I am not condoning the racist abuse of James McClean he has a right not to wear a poppy and to be respected. What I am saying is that for most of us we need to respect that the poppy means something to many English people. We need to grow up and stop picking at scabs. We can't change history and I don't condone the actions of the army in Ireland, but 90% of those soldiers sent here would rather have been anywhere else. Irish people committed atrocities also in the name of war. I am older than a lot of posters on here and grew up in this cesspit. I want better for my children and grandchildren.

It was a volunteer army, if you didn't want to be in Ireland you didn't have to join. It is one thing having  fight in your own house, but another to go to someone else's house and start fighting with the people there.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

None of the dancers on Strictly had a Poppy on their costume last Saturday night.  I know dancers have to be careful with pins and such like but surely though something could have been done.

It's unfortunate that the same-sex couples dancing together means that Jim Wells and DUP folk can no longer watch the program.  This sh1t wouldn't happen on their watch.

/Jim.

[Orior]

None of the dancers on Strictly had a Poppy on their costume last Saturday night.  I know dancers have to be careful with pins and such like but surely though something could have been done.

It's unfortunate that the same-sex couples dancing together means that Jim Wells and DUP folk can no longer watch the program.  This sh1t wouldn't happen on their watch.

/Jim.

lol

[Jim_Murphy_74]

The 11th has come and gone. Could O'Rourke and Kavanagh take their poppy pins off?

/Jim

[Milltown Row2]

I'd a jacket years ago which had a wee red pin on it, and everyone I knew gave me a second look, I thought he'd same thing lol!

I wonder did RTE force them?

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Had to look twice myself

[BennyCake]

I don't think they were poppies. Hard to tell, my signals shit

[larryin89]

Noticed it but I'm not sure was it actually a poppy but perhaps it was ?

[blewuporstuffed]

Noticed it but I'm not sure was it actually a poppy but perhaps it was ?

I dont think it was , i think its just the lapel pin of those terrible suits they get supplied with

[Snapchap]

It was a Benetti Suits pin. You'll never see Cavanagh on TV without one. He's a brand ambassador, as is Tomás Ó'Sé. O'Rourke possibly is too.