Referendums March 8 on 1 family and 2 carers

[seafoid]

You'd have thought removing these two backward Eamon DeValera clause in the Irish constitution (family is founded on marriage, a woman's duty is in the home) would have been an easy win for the Irish government. Had the vote been held between 1993-2008, it would have easily passed. The mood has now shifted and it's not unlike Brexit or Trump's America where the people want a fantasy country back from the forces of liberal elite, media, WEF, EU, immigrants, whatever you're having yourself. Watch Brexiters in UK, Unionists, right wingers, Catholic Church cheer this result.

The wordings were very weak. They ignored the Citizens Assembly . There was no pre legislative scrutiny in the Dail. The Government will now have to look seriously into disability respite and funding. It was a good day for democracy.

[weareros]

You'd have thought removing these two backward Eamon DeValera clause in the Irish constitution (family is founded on marriage, a woman's duty is in the home) would have been an easy win for the Irish government. Had the vote been held between 1993-2008, it would have easily passed. The mood has now shifted and it's not unlike Brexit or Trump's America where the people want a fantasy country back from the forces of liberal elite, media, WEF, EU, immigrants, whatever you're having yourself. Watch Brexiters in UK, Unionists, right wingers, Catholic Church cheer this result.

The wordings were very weak. They ignored the Citizens Assembly . There was no pre legislative scrutiny in the Dail. The Government will now have to look seriously into disability respite and funding. It was a good day for democracy.

The family one was clear: "The State recognises the Family, whether founded on marriage or on other durable relationships" instead of "The State pledges itself to guard with special care the institution of Marriage, on which the Family is founded."

That is some kick in the teeth to an unmarried mother who has worked hard all her life to raise her children. Even if wording was weak, it was still better than what we kept.

[seafoid]

You'd have thought removing these two backward Eamon DeValera clause in the Irish constitution (family is founded on marriage, a woman's duty is in the home) would have been an easy win for the Irish government. Had the vote been held between 1993-2008, it would have easily passed. The mood has now shifted and it's not unlike Brexit or Trump's America where the people want a fantasy country back from the forces of liberal elite, media, WEF, EU, immigrants, whatever you're having yourself. Watch Brexiters in UK, Unionists, right wingers, Catholic Church cheer this result.

The wordings were very weak. They ignored the Citizens Assembly . There was no pre legislative scrutiny in the Dail. The Government will now have to look seriously into disability respite and funding. It was a good day for democracy.

The family one was clear: "The State recognises the Family, whether founded on marriage or on other durable relationships" instead of "The State pledges itself to guard with special care the institution of Marriage, on which the Family is founded."

That is some kick in the teeth to an unmarried mother who has worked hard all her life to raise her children. Even if wording was weak, it was still better than what we kept.

Unmarried mothers are protected under the Constitution. McDowell explains
https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22367052/

The referendum was about diluting marriage.
"The people have spoken, the bastards" Dick Tuck

[Blowitupref]

You'd have thought removing these two backward Eamon DeValera clause in the Irish constitution (family is founded on marriage, a woman's duty is in the home) would have been an easy win for the Irish government. Had the vote been held between 1993-2008, it would have easily passed. The mood has now shifted and it's not unlike Brexit or Trump's America where the people want a fantasy country back from the forces of liberal elite, media, WEF, EU, immigrants, whatever you're having yourself. Watch Brexiters in UK, Unionists, right wingers, Catholic Church cheer this result.

The wordings were very weak. They ignored the Citizens Assembly . There was no pre legislative scrutiny in the Dail. The Government will now have to look seriously into disability respite and funding. It was a good day for democracy.

The family one was clear: "The State recognises the Family, whether founded on marriage or on other durable relationships" instead of "The State pledges itself to guard with special care the institution of Marriage, on which the Family is founded."

That is some kick in the teeth to an unmarried mother who has worked hard all her life to raise her children. Even if wording was weak, it was still better than what we kept.

Unmarried mothers are protected under the Constitution. McDowell explains
https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22367052/

The referendum was about diluting marriage.
"The people have spoken, the bastards" Dick Tuck

More didn't vote at all than voted.

[armaghniac]

More didn't vote at all than voted.

Presumably, they weren't too bothered about change either.

[Tubberman]

You'd have thought removing these two backward Eamon DeValera clause in the Irish constitution (family is founded on marriage, a woman's duty is in the home) would have been an easy win for the Irish government. Had the vote been held between 1993-2008, it would have easily passed. The mood has now shifted and it's not unlike Brexit or Trump's America where the people want a fantasy country back from the forces of liberal elite, media, WEF, EU, immigrants, whatever you're having yourself. Watch Brexiters in UK, Unionists, right wingers, Catholic Church cheer this result.

The wordings were very weak. They ignored the Citizens Assembly . There was no pre legislative scrutiny in the Dail. The Government will now have to look seriously into disability respite and funding. It was a good day for democracy.

The family one was clear: "The State recognises the Family, whether founded on marriage or on other durable relationships" instead of "The State pledges itself to guard with special care the institution of Marriage, on which the Family is founded."

That is some kick in the teeth to an unmarried mother who has worked hard all her life to raise her children. Even if wording was weak, it was still better than what we kept.

Define "durable relationships"

[burdizzo]

More didn't vote at all than voted.

I think that's pretty normal in referendums.

[Blowitupref]

More didn't vote at all than voted.

I think that's pretty normal in referendums.

Turn outs for the last 15 years.


59% for 28th Amendment (Treaty of Lisbon)
57% for 29th Amendment (To relax the prohibition on the reduction of judges' salaries)
51% for 30th Amendment  (To permit the state to ratify the European Fiscal Compact
34% for 31st Amendment (Relating to children's rights)
39% for 32nd Amendment (Abolition of the Seanad)
39% for 33rd Amendment (Establishment of a Court of Appeal)
61% for 34th Amendment  (To permit marriage to be contracted by two persons without distinction as to their sex)
61% for 35th Amendment (To reduce the minimum age of candidacy for the office of President from 35 to 21)
64% for 36th Amendment (To permit the Oireachtas to legislate for the regulation of termination of pregnancy)
44% for 37th Amendment  (Repeal of offence of publication or utterance of blasphemous matter)
51% for 38th Amendment (To delete the requirement for a period of separation before proceedings for divorce could be initiated. To recognise foreign divorces)

44% was the turn out for this one.

[Rossfan]

If I remember correctly about 750k voted against dropping the Abortion ban, around twice that voted yes.
I'd imagine most of that 750k voted no yesterday while most of the 1.5m stayed at home.
Poor effort from the Government from rushing the thing through, ignoring Attorney Geberal advice, not explaining it very well and leaving the whole thing to a Minister who has about 8 or 9 areas of responsibility including immigration/refugees etc

[The Boy Wonder]

The Nazifascists are calling for 2 No Votes so they're obviously 2 good things.

Huh !

[weareros]

You'd have thought removing these two backward Eamon DeValera clause in the Irish constitution (family is founded on marriage, a woman's duty is in the home) would have been an easy win for the Irish government. Had the vote been held between 1993-2008, it would have easily passed. The mood has now shifted and it's not unlike Brexit or Trump's America where the people want a fantasy country back from the forces of liberal elite, media, WEF, EU, immigrants, whatever you're having yourself. Watch Brexiters in UK, Unionists, right wingers, Catholic Church cheer this result.

The wordings were very weak. They ignored the Citizens Assembly . There was no pre legislative scrutiny in the Dail. The Government will now have to look seriously into disability respite and funding. It was a good day for democracy.

The family one was clear: "The State recognises the Family, whether founded on marriage or on other durable relationships" instead of "The State pledges itself to guard with special care the institution of Marriage, on which the Family is founded."

That is some kick in the teeth to an unmarried mother who has worked hard all her life to raise her children. Even if wording was weak, it was still better than what we kept.

Define "durable relationships"

Define "Family"?

For most, any mother and child in a lasting relationship is a family. But in context of Irish constitution, it's a married mother and child. You know we once sent the unmarried mothers to homes, sold their babies, to keep up this fiction.

And so this attacking the "durable relationships" to mean Mohammed bringing in his 10 wives to Ireland when in real world over 40% of Irish children are born out of wedlock was shitty. And Irish people pleading ignorance - sure that could he Mohammed and his ten wives or the live in girlfriend claiming the farm.

Meaning is context dependent. In context of Irish constitution, it was clear what durable relationships meant.

[whitey]

You'd have thought removing these two backward Eamon DeValera clause in the Irish constitution (family is founded on marriage, a woman's duty is in the home) would have been an easy win for the Irish government. Had the vote been held between 1993-2008, it would have easily passed. The mood has now shifted and it's not unlike Brexit or Trump's America where the people want a fantasy country back from the forces of liberal elite, media, WEF, EU, immigrants, whatever you're having yourself. Watch Brexiters in UK, Unionists, right wingers, Catholic Church cheer this result.

The wordings were very weak. They ignored the Citizens Assembly . There was no pre legislative scrutiny in the Dail. The Government will now have to look seriously into disability respite and funding. It was a good day for democracy.

The family one was clear: "The State recognises the Family, whether founded on marriage or on other durable relationships" instead of "The State pledges itself to guard with special care the institution of Marriage, on which the Family is founded."

That is some kick in the teeth to an unmarried mother who has worked hard all her life to raise her children. Even if wording was weak, it was still better than what we kept.

Define "durable relationships"

Define "Family"?

For most, any mother and child in a lasting relationship is a family. But in context of Irish constitution, it's a married mother and child. You know we once sent the unmarried mothers to homes, sold their babies, to keep up this fiction.

And so this attacking the "durable relationships" to mean Mohammed bringing in his 10 wives to Ireland when in real world over 40% of Irish children are born out of wedlock was shitty. And Irish people pleading ignorance - sure that could he Mohammed and his ten wives or the live in girlfriend claiming the farm.

Meaning is context dependent. In context of Irish constitution, it was clear what durable relationships meant.

A sitting government minister (Neale Richmond) said on TV-that a Yes vote in the Family referendum would have "serious consequences" for immigration law.

[RedHand88]

A single mother is not in a durable relationship either, so what was the benefit of adding that text to the marriage sentence?

[Tubberman]

You'd have thought removing these two backward Eamon DeValera clause in the Irish constitution (family is founded on marriage, a woman's duty is in the home) would have been an easy win for the Irish government. Had the vote been held between 1993-2008, it would have easily passed. The mood has now shifted and it's not unlike Brexit or Trump's America where the people want a fantasy country back from the forces of liberal elite, media, WEF, EU, immigrants, whatever you're having yourself. Watch Brexiters in UK, Unionists, right wingers, Catholic Church cheer this result.

The wordings were very weak. They ignored the Citizens Assembly . There was no pre legislative scrutiny in the Dail. The Government will now have to look seriously into disability respite and funding. It was a good day for democracy.

The family one was clear: "The State recognises the Family, whether founded on marriage or on other durable relationships" instead of "The State pledges itself to guard with special care the institution of Marriage, on which the Family is founded."

That is some kick in the teeth to an unmarried mother who has worked hard all her life to raise her children. Even if wording was weak, it was still better than what we kept.

Define "durable relationships"

Define "Family"?

For most, any mother and child in a lasting relationship is a family. But in context of Irish constitution, it's a married mother and child. You know we once sent the unmarried mothers to homes, sold their babies, to keep up this fiction.

And so this attacking the "durable relationships" to mean Mohammed bringing in his 10 wives to Ireland when in real world over 40% of Irish children are born out of wedlock was shitty. And Irish people pleading ignorance - sure that could he Mohammed and his ten wives or the live in girlfriend claiming the farm.

Meaning is context dependent. In context of Irish constitution, it was clear what durable relationships meant.

It was NOT clear what durable relationship meant - that was the main problem!
It was vague, and was to be determined by the courts.
People were asked to vote in a change to the constitution when they couldn't know the impacts of that change.
They rightly rejected it.

[seafoid]

"Durable relationship" and "strive" were what sunk the proposals.

Catherine Connolly called it from the start

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1766528405036581142