Paddy Jackson apology

[AQMP]

Yeah, the law is the law and business is business and sometimes never the twain shall meet. Will we move on to the Cliff Richard case??

[JPGJOHNNYG]

Syferus, I assume you haven't viewed the Dara Florence video doing the rounds then? Yet.....

What video? Ah ffs dont be leaving it on a cliff hanger like that esp with all this talk of closing the thread. Im going to have to go back to jeremy kyle at this rate.

[Milltown Row2]

Syferus, I assume you haven't viewed the Dara Florence video doing the rounds then? Yet.....

What video? Ah ffs dont be leaving it on a cliff hanger like that esp with all this talk of closing the thread. Im going to have to go back to jeremy kyle at this rate.

It's of her going to mass and being completely nun like

[brokencrossbar1]

At this stage it is a pure PR thing. The 2 lads will have about 2/3 of their remaining contracts paid up and they will go and get clubs in England or France. The whole thing is done, dusted and a line drawn under it now. Time to move on I reckon boys and girls.

I wouldn't be surprised if this case led to changes in how rape cases are tried in court . It's more than just dumb bitches protesting pointlessly.

Possibly but I don't know. It takes a lot to change things. I'd say what may happen initially is that there will be more supports out in place for complainants and possibly more in camera work done but courts are reluctant to do that.

[seafoid]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2018/04/14/paddy-jackson-stuart-olding-have-contracts-irfu-ulster-revoked/

Capped 25 times and four times ­respectively, 26-year-old Jackson and 25-year-old Olding have been tipped to try to resurrect their careers in France or Japan. 

Any interest from within  the British Isles, including from ­Premiership clubs, is likely to be met with a furious backlash. 

[Syferus]

At this stage it is a pure PR thing. The 2 lads will have about 2/3 of their remaining contracts paid up and they will go and get clubs in England or France. The whole thing is done, dusted and a line drawn under it now. Time to move on I reckon boys and girls.

Until rape is successfully prosecuted to a meaningful degree and the culture of apologists that shield those who commit the crime fades away this will never go away. This was always much bigger than two rugby players and a teenage woman.

You and others here dearly wish that this mess can be brushed under the carpet but it will not and it will continue to come to the forefront of public perception with regularity until laws change, or the interpretation of them change.

You're an awful dose of shite. Who are you to sit there and tell me I want it 'brush it under the carpet'?  I have already stated that I think there could be changes made to make it easier for the complainant but the reality is that it's not the legal system that is the problem
but a society problem. You seem to think you're some
paragon of virtue but you're not....no more than me or MR2 or anyone else. You've jumped in a crusade on this issue but what have you done to change the system that you are so critical of? Sweet FA I'd say. I'll tell you this though, unlike you I have taken action in the past and been involved in numerous JRs which have helped change certain things in the administration of justice in NI. I've sat with people whose lives have been devastated by miscarriages of justice and actually done something about it? What have you done apart from been a self aggrandising arsehole on a website? Like I said sweet FA no doubt. When you've done something then you can talk to me, till then keep your judgement ta to yourself.

I've done a whole hell of a lot more than you know, which really wouldn't be much a statement in and of itself as your defensiveness tells a story. You can't really believe that attempting to psychoanalyse someone on a message board and trying to say they are as bad as yourself or anyone else, all without knowing a jot about them, is a good argument or response. At least for your sake I hope you don't.

Your reaction to irrefutable points about prosecution rates also speak volumes. Trying to schold someone in that context is frankly laughable. Always attempting to use ad hominem attacks to distract from what actually matters. It's a common tactic in this thread.

You can have your echo chamber here, but as I'm sure you have noticed there is real desire for change in both the culture and the law that surrounds rape. Laws and the changing interpretations of them change societies - to say that this is a societal problem is a lie and an over-simplification of how change has been achieved in the past both here and in other western countries. The justice system can be, and should be, an agent for change. It's much easier to change it than to change base instinct.

[Milltown Row2]

Found those qualifications then ?

[brokencrossbar1]

No harm to you Syferus but you have played the man repeatedly in this whole situation. Whenever real arguments were put up to you they were simply ignored and when things were pointed out tomyou that you got completely wrong you ignored them. You have limited knowledge of how the judicial process works and that has come across crystal clear. I believe that the system can change but this is not the case to use as a catalyst as it was a poorly constructed prosecution which was based on a 'public interest' decision on taking the case rather than an evidential one. The evidence simply wasn't there and that is why they were acquitted. It really should not have been proceeded with due to lack of cogent evidence.

Anyway, I've nothing more to say on this as it is a circular argument. You have you stance and that's it.

[Syferus]

No harm to you Syferus but you have played the man repeatedly in this whole situation. Whenever real arguments were put up to you they were simply ignored and when things were pointed out tomyou that you got completely wrong you ignored them. You have limited knowledge of how the judicial process works and that has come across crystal clear. I believe that the system can change but this is not the case to use as a catalyst as it was a poorly constructed prosecution which was based on a 'public interest' decision on taking the case rather than an evidential one. The evidence simply wasn't there and that is why they were acquitted. It really should not have been proceeded with due to lack of cogent evidence.

Anyway, I've nothing more to say on this as it is a circular argument. You have you stance and that's it.

I've only played the man when it's readily apparent that the poster continually excuses the male's behaviour while attempting to diminish the woman at every turn. MR2, Orior and Asal Mor remain the only ones who I have continually called out on it. It's only a small thing but letting that nonsense masquerade as something that it is not - good faith argument - would be wrong. Just because this board has a largely anachronistic take on this issue it doesn't mean I am any less right. I have more interest in what is right than being popular.

[sid waddell]

The evidence simply wasn't there and that is why they were acquitted. It really should not have been proceeded with due to lack of cogent evidence.

If the shouldn't have been proceeded with, as you say, the judge had the options of either accepting an application by the defence to end the trial after the prosecution case had finished for lack of evidence, or directing the jury to acquit.

Neither of these things happened.

I find it very interesting that while several posters have stated that others posters here did not know more than the jury, which is a very fair assertion and one I wouldn't argue with, we simultaneously have some of these same posters now claiming to know more than the Public Prosecution Service and more than the Judge!

[brokencrossbar1]

The trial was always going to run its whole course. The Prosecution has reserves aboutnit and that came directly to me from the mouth of a member of the PPS. They had serious concerns over the conduct of the investigation by the police and that was clear due to how some of the evidence was accumulated. It was a poor trial and maybe it may have been different if the police had carried out their job correctly but it is what it is and that will never change. They were found not guilty and the door has now closed on their case and the next stage of their lives and the complainants will now begin. This has been talked to death and I've nothing left to say.

[sid waddell]

The trial was always going to run its whole course. The Prosecution has reserves aboutnit and that came directly to me from the mouth of a member of the PPS. They had serious concerns over the conduct of the investigation by the police and that was clear due to how some of the evidence was accumulated. It was a poor trial and maybe it may have been different if the police had carried out their job correctly but it is what it is and that will never change. They were found not guilty and the door has now closed on their case and the next stage of their lives and the complainants will now begin. This has been talked to death and I've nothing left to say.

But a judge can direct a jury to acquit and the defence can apply for a Galbraith ruling to have the charges dismissed.

I'm not sure about the latter, but the former is a not uncommon occurrence.

In your post, you state that "it may have been different had the police carried out their job correctly".

Well, there we go. And some folks wonder why there were protests, eh.

[brokencrossbar1]

The trial was always going to run its whole course. The Prosecution has reserves aboutnit and that came directly to me from the mouth of a member of the PPS. They had serious concerns over the conduct of the investigation by the police and that was clear due to how some of the evidence was accumulated. It was a poor trial and maybe it may have been different if the police had carried out their job correctly but it is what it is and that will never change. They were found not guilty and the door has now closed on their case and the next stage of their lives and the complainants will now begin. This has been talked to death and I've nothing left to say.

But a judge can direct a jury to acquit and the defence can apply for a Galbraith ruling to have the charges dismissed.

I'm not sure about the latter, but the former is a not uncommon occurrence.

In your post, you state that "it may have been different had the police carried out their job correctly".

Well, there we go. And some folks wonder why there were protests, eh.

If the police had done their job right there may not have been a case at all.

[sid waddell]

No doubt there would have to have been a financial agreement to terminate the contracts because:

1. There was no contractual clause about behaviour otherwise Gilroy would also be gone

Gilroy did not engage in behaviour that left a woman at minimum bleeding and extremely distressed.

Jackson and Olding admit that their behaviour was reprehensible.

Therefore their behaviour and Gilroy's is not equivalent.

That is why Gilroy has not been sacked.

2. Two other IRFU centrally contracted players were known by the public to have indulged in similar sexual behaviour but no action was taken against them so Jackson and Olding had precedent on their side in negotiations.

Murray and Zebo did not engage in behaviour that left a woman bleeding and distressed. The woman never alleged that the encounter was anything other than consensual.

Not similar behaviour.

3. Jackson and Olding had to be sacrificed by IRFU and Ulster to save sponsorship deals and quieten public dissent even if it is from a tiny but vocal minority. Be certain that deals have already been put in place for both players to get new deals at clubs outside Ireland that will be revealed at a suitable time on the PR front.

Perhaps people think all this stuff sporting associations say about inclusion, respect, good behaviour etc. is supposed to be self-serving bollocks which is never enforced. Maybe it was designed as self-serving bollocks which the IRFU never thought would have to be used.

But it's there, and if it's to ever mean anything, it had to be invoked now.

[Milltown Row2]

Syf/sid losing the plot again