Paddy Jackson apology

Started by yellowcard, April 06, 2018, 02:32:16 PM

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NAG1

Quote from: AQMP on April 09, 2018, 09:57:02 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 09, 2018, 01:38:39 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on April 09, 2018, 12:44:16 AM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn't play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

As far as I know, in the North, it is the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) that decides whether to take a case to trial, not the PSNI.

Exactly

Shows the lack of knowledge about the whole system when a lot of the #ibelieveher champions are complaining about PJ paying for his defence and the IP only getting 'legal aid' and vowing to raise money for her etc etc. Seriously so many people spouting about this without even a basic knowledge of the system.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: AQMP on April 09, 2018, 09:57:02 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 09, 2018, 01:38:39 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on April 09, 2018, 12:44:16 AM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn't play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

As far as I know, in the North, it is the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) that decides whether to take a case to trial, not the PSNI.

I'm sure its presented to the PPS by the police who then decide, based on what early evidence that has been collected by the police, which by all accounts after the trial has been shown to be rubbish at best...

We'll never know for sure what happened that night unfortunately, but the cops could have done better either to present a better set of evidence or explain to the girl/parents that there would be anything close to a conviction available based on what she said during the interviews of her and the rugby lads...

Either way it was a fcuk up and has now a new term is floating around call "rape culture" such a buzz word now its trending
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

AQMP

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 09, 2018, 10:10:32 AM
Quote from: AQMP on April 09, 2018, 09:57:02 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 09, 2018, 01:38:39 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on April 09, 2018, 12:44:16 AM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn't play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

As far as I know, in the North, it is the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) that decides whether to take a case to trial, not the PSNI.

I'm sure its presented to the PPS by the police who then decide, based on what early evidence that has been collected by the police, which by all accounts after the trial has been shown to be rubbish at best...

We'll never know for sure what happened that night unfortunately, but the cops could have done better either to present a better set of evidence or explain to the girl/parents that there would be anything close to a conviction available based on what she said during the interviews of her and the rugby lads...

Either way it was a fcuk up and has now a new term is floating around call "rape culture" such a buzz word now its trending

From the PPS website:

"Prosecutions are initiated or continued where it is satisfied that the Test for Prosecution is met. The key principles applied in the Test for Prosecution are as follows:

Whether the evidence which can be adduced in court is sufficient to provide a reasonable prospect of conviction - 'the Evidential Test'; and

Whether a prosecution is required in the Public Interest - 'the Public Interest Test'.

Each of these stages must be separately considered but a decision as to whether or not a prosecution is in the public interest can only arise when the evidential test has been satisfied."


Depends what they mean by "reasonable prospect of a conviction".  Is that 51/49 or something higher?  Maybe DMK or bcb1 could shed some light.  What we can infer is that once the decision was made to take this case to court the girl/her parents would know that the PPS, at least, thought there was a "reasonable prospect" of them being convicted.

Also I remember last autumn that their solicitors challenged the strength of the evidence against them and this was reviewed by the court.  I think this led to the vaginal rape charge against Olding being dropped but the other charges stood. 

seafoid

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/rape-trials-should-use-prerecorded-crossexaminations-says-new-report-36787586.html

Caroline Counihan, RCNI's legal director, said pre-recording such evidence would reduce the risk of secondary trauma to the victim.

She said advances in technology had improved the possibility of pre-recorded statements and cross-examination being used in a criminal trial.

"Our criminal justice system is based on the premise that face-to-face live evidence at trial is the best evidence which can be obtained.

"Modern psychological research does not support this conclusion, particularly since the advent of high-resolution pre-recorded video and video-link solutions," Ms Counihan said.

"Pre-recording a Garda statement soon after a complaint has been made maximises the potential of the witness to recall, fully and accurately, what happened, to give his or her best evidence and to help minimise the risk of secondary traumatisation by reducing exposure to the adversarial criminal justice process itself.

"In our view, it is time that the limitations of the live evidence only approach – often months or years after the alleged crime took place – were addressed."

Cliona Saidlear, director of RCNI, said the recent Belfast rape trial highlighted how difficult the criminal justice system can be on witnesses.

"We know that we can make it better and that vulnerable witnesses can have a less traumatising experience in giving vital evidence," she said.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Lar Naparka

Quote from: Syferus on April 09, 2018, 02:10:54 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 09, 2018, 01:38:39 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on April 09, 2018, 12:44:16 AM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn't play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

You're starting to show yourself up. Stick to the yerrah yerrah stuff and playing handball with Enda stories and leave societal issues to those that actually have to deal with them regularly. I would say you're divorced from reality given your position but you probably voted to keep it outlawed too..
Now, now Syf, stop throwing yer rattle outa yer pram. :D :D
I like to think that I am a democrat and will accept the law of the land in any country where the will of the people is observed.
I believe that the judgement handed down in the recent case was based on a decision, freely made, buy 11 responsible peers of the accused. I also think the presiding judge delivered her directions to said jury in a fair-minded and very comprehensive way. Nothing was left to chance.
At the end of the proceedings, the jury retired to consider the evidence presented to them and returned in a very short period of time with a clear cut verdict.
Had the verdict gone the other way and if any or all of the defendants were found guilty as charged, then I would accept that verdict also. It seems the jury regarded Dora Florence to be a more credible witness than the complainant. There may have been other relevant factors involved but, for me, this is the crucial one.
Mob law is what you are advocating here and it sucks...
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

Sweeper 123

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43700563

see momentum to get them reinstated to Ulster Rugby - what you think about these 40000 people Syf

AQMP

The application by various media outlets to lift the reporting restrictions on the trial will now be heard on Wednesday.

magpie seanie


Denn Forever

Quote from: AQMP on April 09, 2018, 04:11:03 PM
The application by various media outlets to lift the reporting restrictions on the trial will now be heard on Wednesday.

Is the woman not entitled to anonominity?
I have more respect for a man
that says what he means and
means what he says...

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Denn Forever on April 09, 2018, 04:19:27 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 09, 2018, 04:11:03 PM
The application by various media outlets to lift the reporting restrictions on the trial will now be heard on Wednesday.

Is the woman not entitled to anonominity?

She will continue with anonominity
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

sid waddell

Quote from: Sweeper 123 on April 09, 2018, 04:06:23 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43700563

see momentum to get them reinstated to Ulster Rugby - what you think about these 40000 people Syf

What "40000"? 

Your link says "5,500".;D


sid waddell

Quote from: NAG1 on April 09, 2018, 10:08:19 AM
Quote from: AQMP on April 09, 2018, 09:57:02 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 09, 2018, 01:38:39 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on April 09, 2018, 12:44:16 AM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn't play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

As far as I know, in the North, it is the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) that decides whether to take a case to trial, not the PSNI.

Exactly

Shows the lack of knowledge about the whole system when a lot of the #ibelieveher champions are complaining about PJ paying for his defence and the IP only getting 'legal aid' and vowing to raise money for her etc etc. Seriously so many people spouting about this without even a basic knowledge of the system.

Where on earth do you even start with the stupidity on show in the above messages?  ;D


yellowcard

Do we even know if Jackson/Olding wish to remain at Ulster. Some time away might do them good and they could probably earn more playing abroad. I think there is no chance of either representing Ireland again anyway so it shouldn't effect them internationally.   

Syferus

#88
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 09, 2018, 04:00:15 PM
Quote from: Syferus on April 09, 2018, 02:10:54 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 09, 2018, 01:38:39 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on April 09, 2018, 12:44:16 AM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn't play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

You're starting to show yourself up. Stick to the yerrah yerrah stuff and playing handball with Enda stories and leave societal issues to those that actually have to deal with them regularly. I would say you're divorced from reality given your position but you probably voted to keep it outlawed too..
Now, now Syf, stop throwing yer rattle outa yer pram. :D :D
I like to think that I am a democrat and will accept the law of the land in any country where the will of the people is observed.
I believe that the judgement handed down in the recent case was based on a decision, freely made, buy 11 responsible peers of the accused. I also think the presiding judge delivered her directions to said jury in a fair-minded and very comprehensive way. Nothing was left to chance.
At the end of the proceedings, the jury retired to consider the evidence presented to them and returned in a very short period of time with a clear cut verdict.
Had the verdict gone the other way and if any or all of the defendants were found guilty as charged, then I would accept that verdict also. It seems the jury regarded Dora Florence to be a more credible witness than the complainant. There may have been other relevant factors involved but, for me, this is the crucial one.
Mob law is what you are advocating here and it sucks...

The decision is not the problem. The system that supports it is.

If you think rape is well policed and prosecuted you are, to be frank, wrong.

People have no responsibility to give any undue respect to a system they see as broken, and you and others would do well to remember that before you throw stones at those brave enough to try to effect some manner of change.

In fact, a responsibility to seek a more fair society is much more fundamental to the ideals of justice and a better country for all people than blindly deferring to a judicial system and ignoring the issues that it has raised.

To paraphrase the US constitution, the goal of any society should be to establish a more perfect union than that which one inherits. Anything less is failure.

Tony Baloney

Quote from: Syferus on April 09, 2018, 05:41:26 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 09, 2018, 04:00:15 PM
Quote from: Syferus on April 09, 2018, 02:10:54 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 09, 2018, 01:38:39 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on April 09, 2018, 12:44:16 AM
Can you put a link up where it says this?  I see one where 67k want a review which is currently taking place but not one of what you are suggesting ie that they shouldn't play for ulster again
From what I can gather from a number of newspaper articles, there is widespread concern that the PSNI decided to prosecute a case that they had little or no chance of winning.  That means that Syferus and 65,000 (alleged) other fascist, anti-democratic gobdaws should either accept the verdict of a lawfully constituted court that found Olding and Jackson innocent of all charges laid against them or they reject the concept of law and order. Not only that but the PSNI may have to answer questions about their reasons for allowing wasting over eight weeks of a lot of peoples' time as well as subjecting the complainant and the accused to an immense amount of unnecessary stress.

You're starting to show yourself up. Stick to the yerrah yerrah stuff and playing handball with Enda stories and leave societal issues to those that actually have to deal with them regularly. I would say you're divorced from reality given your position but you probably voted to keep it outlawed too..
Now, now Syf, stop throwing yer rattle outa yer pram. :D :D
I like to think that I am a democrat and will accept the law of the land in any country where the will of the people is observed.
I believe that the judgement handed down in the recent case was based on a decision, freely made, buy 11 responsible peers of the accused. I also think the presiding judge delivered her directions to said jury in a fair-minded and very comprehensive way. Nothing was left to chance.
At the end of the proceedings, the jury retired to consider the evidence presented to them and returned in a very short period of time with a clear cut verdict.
Had the verdict gone the other way and if any or all of the defendants were found guilty as charged, then I would accept that verdict also. It seems the jury regarded Dora Florence to be a more credible witness than the complainant. There may have been other relevant factors involved but, for me, this is the crucial one.
Mob law is what you are advocating here and it sucks...

The decision is not the problem. The system that supports it is.

If you think rape is well policed and prosecuted you are, to be frank, wrong.

People have no responsibility to give any undue respect to a system they see as broken, and you and others would do well to remember that before you throw stones at those brave enough to try to effect some manner of change.

In fact, a responsibility to seek a more fairness society is much more fundamental to the ideals of justice and a better country for all people than blindly deferring to a judicial system and ignoring the issues that it has raised.
Woah there. I think you'll find yourself on record (repeatedly!) having a problem with the decision and on many occasions before there even was a decision.