The OFFICIAL Liverpool FC thread - Jurgen walks - Stallion vindicated

[Boycey]

Was it just Irish Catholics that'd weren't welcome or was it the whole religion?

Plenty of Catholic players from Irish backgrounds played with Liverpool throughout the 60's and 70's including Chris Lawler, Tommy Smith and the recently deceased Gerry Byrne.

Thats what I would have figured...

I was gonna reference a guy from my locale but when I googled him he wasn't what I thought he was (not that it makes a jot of difference to me)

Liverpool's first manager was the strongly religous Irishman John McKenna. After joining many Irish immigrants on Merseyside during Queen Victoria's reign over the country, McKenna took up many jobs. His first job in the city was as a 19 year old grocers boy, and he also spent a time working as a vaccinations officer in the city. His major work came in charity, and he was involved in both the West Derby Union and the Orange Order among many other foundations. His work for the Union revolved around helping Liverpool's poor and destitute, and another of his major passions was his work for the church. He first met John Houlding through his work for the charitable organisation the Orange Order. By the time Everton left Anfield, McKenna was a huge friend of the grounds owner Houlding and the protestant was an obvious choice as the clubs first 'team director.' He forged a reputation for honesty and dignity whilst remaining strict, and his determination saw his cleverly formed 'team of the Macs' gain entry into the football league in 1893. The mans catchphrase was 'a moment, please, a moment' which was perhaps that times equivalent to Brian Cloughs infamous 'young man' quip. He kept a place on the Liverpool board long after quiting the managers job in 1896, leaving the club 26 years later in 1922. He also served as president of the football league for 26 years between 1910 and 1936. He died at the age of 82, almost 70 years ago. Here is the brief tale of honest 'John'.

John McKenna arrived in Liverpool at the age of 19, just one of the many swapping the hunger and poverty of his native Ireland for the promise of a better life across the water. Although many of his compatriots suffered on Merseyside, McKenna used his high willpower and determination to forge a new life for himself. His first job was working for a local grocer, spending much of his time running errands and stacking shelves in his role as a grocers boy. He also moved on to work as a vaccinations officer, work which helped fund his involvement in his major passions of Rugby Union and Rifle Shooting. The staunch protestant, a member of the Ulster Protestantism group, was an active member of the church, with every Sunday spent in the Liverpool Protestant Cathedral. After finishing his work as a vaccinations officer, McKenna joined the West Derby Union. This field of work involved John helping to administer the cities many workhouses, helped to create housing and care for the cities poor and destitute, many of whom had come from McKenna's homeland and been unable to make a real fist of life like McKenna did. Charity work was an integral part of the County Monaghan raised mans life and it was through his work for the charitable organisation the Orange Order that he met John Houlding. Houlding, or 'King John' as he was known, was one of Liverpool's major businessmen, and a patron of the Orange Order. McKenna soon forged a friendship with the equally strong willed Houlding, and was soon invited to watch Houlding's team Everton play at Anfield. McKenna liked what he saw and football soon joined religion as his major passions, with Rifle Shooting and Rugby Union well and truly 'kicked into touch'. McKenna became a regular spectator at Anfield up until the well publicised split between Houlding and Everton. After Houlding formed the new institution of Liverpool Association Football Club, McKenna quickly became part of the staff. Houlding appointed him director of team affairs with William Barclay appointed director of administration. Or in modern terms, Barclay was the director of football and McKenna was Liverpool's first ever manager!

McKenna took up his new challenge with a relish, although he was at first greeted with disappointment as the club missed out on football league status. His first season in charge was to be in the Lancashire league, alongside the likes of Fairfield rather than plying his trade against great sides like Preston North End. His first task after that disappointment was to build a side to play for the club. In spite of the fact that 3 of the Everton side, namely Andrew Hannah, Pat Gordon and Duncan McLean had remained at Anfield, McKenna had to recruit new players and fast. He decided to sign players from the amateur leagues in Scotland, where footballers were keen to earn more money playing football in England rather thanhaving to work down the mines in Scotland. In advance of Liverpool's first season of football, McKenna had signed no fewer than 10 players from North of the Border. His side, playing in Blue and White Stripes, won Liverpool's first Anfield game, 7-1 in a friendly against Rotherham. Although crowds that turned out to watch the 'Blue and Whites' were low, those that bothered to attend were greeted to some tremendous displays. The team scored goal after goal with victories of 5,6,7 or even 8 goals not uncommon. His hard to please directors, who were especially critical of the way the full backs prefered to attack, couldn't fail to be pleased by the teams performances. McKenna's men walked the Lancashire league, winning 17 of their 22 games. Victory over a strong Everton side in the Liverpool Senior Cup was also a major achivement for McKenna's men. His best feat was probably his work in gaining Liverpool a coveted football league spot. Without the knowledge of his colleagues, McKenna sent in Liverpool's application. In spite of stiff competition from bigger clubs, he managed to win Liverpool one of the new spots in the league alongside Woolwich Arsenal. His argument was flawless, he pointed out the clubs talented squad, financial security, excellent transport links, and most importantly the massive potential, potential that he said could help Liverpool one day become the greatest side in the land.

The clubs first year in the football league was better than any of the Liverpool fans of the day could have possibly dreamed of. The side were destined for promotion right from the start when Malcolm McVean's strike in the clubs first ever league game, a 2-0 victory Middlesbrough Ironpolis was a sign of things to come. The team won 22 of 28 matches in the 1893/94 season, with an impressive goals ratio of scoring 77 and conceeding only 18. His side also won the promotion/relegation test match against Newton Heath, soon to be known as Manchester United to secure a division one spot. McKenna's side's rapid rise had taken them to the top in only two years. In spite of the clubs rapidly widening fanbase and previous success, Division One was a bridge to far for McKenna's men. The miserable season saw the club relegated, with Everton trouncing McKenna's men in front of a huge crowd of 44,000 in the first ever league derby. McKenna then gained a seat on the board, and he was instrumental in appointing Tom Watson as his replacement, Watson was a major coup then, seeing as he was at the time English footballs most successful coach. McKenna, alongside Houlding had layed the building blocks for Liverpools future in the football league!
McKenna hadn't finished with Liverpool yet, he was on the board for a long time after his 'retirement' in 1896.

He finally left Anfield for good in 1922, after 30 successful years at the club, during which Liverpool had won their first three titles and made it to their first FA Cup final. 22 of those years were on the administrative staff, during which he was twice appointed club chairman and carried on the good work of John Houlding. Liverpool were not McKenna's only involvement in football. He joined the FA Council in 1905, and was elected the president of the football league in 1910 up until 1935, which made him the institutions longest serving president in history. After retiring from the football league, there wasn't a long tim eleft in the life of the strongly religous man, who died in the Spring of 1936 at the age of 82. He was a well respected figure, and rightly so throughout both football and the church, and his work at Anfield has not been forgotten by the club. A commemorative plaque awarded by the football league is firmly engraved on the Anfield entrance hall, a plaque which, nearly 70 years after his death, remains a worthy tribute, to 'Honest John'.

So that's the facts about John McKenna, but perhaps I haven't spoken enough about his personna. He took a great interest in players welfare, and was said to be a kind employer. He was not however, a soft touch. His 'military bearing and staccato voice' made him a man you wouldn't want to mess with. A prime example of this came after a game against Manchester City, this is the Echo report of that incident, "When the City director entered the Liverpool boardroom vehemently declaring that City had been robbed of the game, McKenna immediately used his catchphrase 'A moment, please, a moment'. He then proceeded to ask the director if he knew what the word robbed meant. Did he believe the referee was a thied? He promptly insisted that the director apologise to everyone in the room." That was the type of man John McKenna was. Some people say that his strong protestantism lead to the sectarian divide in early 20th century merseyside, however other facts have proved that to be a laughable allegation. He never considered religion when signing players, he was a proper football manager, putting ability on the field above all else. Although this sounds like normal practise nowadays. This was a time when Rangers and Celtic were far more seperated than they are even now, with both only buying protestant or catholic players respectively. By the time he died, he had dedicated almost half his life to the development of football. Not bad for a man brought up on Rugby Union...

A friend of mine did a lot of research into him

https://davidmoenblog.wordpress.com/category/honest-john-mckenna/

I'm sure this isn't news to most of you but it interested me...

[Bingo]

Who gives a flying fcuk which one is a Catholic club and which isn't.
It's not like being Catholic is anything to be proud of.

It matters because they excluded people of a certain Faith, they brought Religion into the equation, they were as bad in their own way as Rangers, it is a part of the legacy of the Club, a negative but they righted the wrong so nothing to see here on this score anymore.

That should have been obvious to you ffs!

Utter utter drivel. But that's to be expected.
WTF religion got to do with football apart from a few looking to make football about religion.
I don't think Liverpool or united had any Muslims playing either. What does that mean??

This place can be a right misery pit recently.

[seafoid]

Who gives a flying fcuk which one is a Catholic club and which isn't.
It's not like being Catholic is anything to be proud of.

It matters because they excluded people of a certain Faith, they brought Religion into the equation, they were as bad in their own way as Rangers, it is a part of the legacy of the Club, a negative but they righted the wrong so nothing to see here on this score anymore.

That should have been obvious to you ffs!

Utter utter drivel. But that's to be expected.
WTF religion got to do with football apart from a few looking to make football about religion.
I don't think Liverpool or united had any Muslims playing either. What does that mean??

This place can be a right misery pit recently.

Religion and football go together like Rangers and Celtic or Hibs and Hearts
Liverpool has a lot less religious bile than Glasgow but it still has a few Orange Order districts

[Boycey]

Who gives a flying fcuk which one is a Catholic club and which isn't.
It's not like being Catholic is anything to be proud of.

It matters because they excluded people of a certain Faith, they brought Religion into the equation, they were as bad in their own way as Rangers, it is a part of the legacy of the Club, a negative but they righted the wrong so nothing to see here on this score anymore.

That should have been obvious to you ffs!

Utter utter drivel. But that's to be expected.
WTF religion got to do with football apart from a few looking to make football about religion.
I don't think Liverpool or united had any Muslims playing either. What does that mean??

This place can be a right misery pit recently.

Religion and football go together like Rangers and Celtic or Hibs and Hearts
Liverpool has a lot less religious bile than Glasgow but it still has a few Orange Order districts

Funnily enough the biggest Orange Order parade I ever saw was in Liverpool.... I was on a stag there possibly 4/5 years ago and on the Saturday morning the few early risers amongst us were having a pint in The Beehive when we heard the unmistakable sounds of an Orange parade we stood outside gobsmacked as lodge after lodge went past.. The latecomers wouldn't believe us until late in the afternoon they trooped back past on the return trip. Surreal.

[Armamike]

Just another stick to beat the red side with.  That and the peoples' club are the two chestnuts.  Can't say I would know too much about Liverpool's early history (that's probably of more interest to historians) but in more 'modern' times (say for argument  the 1940s/1950s onwards) if Liverpool didn't many buy many Irish Catholics it was most likely a) they weren't good enough or b) they were snapped up by other clubs.

[deiseach]

There are no Irish Evertonians anyway. Born not made and all that jazz.

[laoislad]

No Mingolet today. Not even on the bench.

Tough enough away game. Watford are flying atm.

[seafoid]

There are no Irish Evertonians anyway. Born not made and all that jazz.

Begotten of the father
Forgotten

[laoislad]

Good man Bogdan.

[From the Bunker]

ooooooooooops! 

[laoislad]

I hate these Sunday games!!

[rodney trotter]

Liverpool have been been shocking. Kloop hasn't improved them much.

[deiseach]

Rod Laver is supposed to have said it wasn't a break until you held your own serve. How right he was.

[J70]

This is good crack, isn't it!

Liverpool swanning about, Watford working their socks off and getting stuck in. Nothing sticking up front.

[From the Bunker]

Liverpool have been been shocking. Kloop hasn't improved them much.

Silk purses out of Pigs ears. Think there is no Sturridge, Gerrard, Sterling and most importantly Suarez from the League title challenging year. None have been replaced because you can't replace players like these without sh1t loads of money and a club based in a happening city.