China Coronavirus

[Angelo]

Do the Wobblers, Rudis etc ever wonder why polio, diphtheria,  smallpox and other former prevalent diseases don't attack us any more?
Thankfully there was no Facebook when those vaccines started.
Hopefully we will see "No vaccination No entry" policy in vogue everywhere.

Does anyone want to explain to this self-anointed expert about the number of people that were left paralysed as a result of the polio vaccine?

[Rudi]

Fackin' useless cushy public sector layabouts, savin' our lives

Don't need 'em

Again a waste of time debating with a fool like you. Where did I say doctors and nurses had cushy numbers, you see what you want to see. Dont waste your time replying I'm done with fools like you.

[sid waddell]

Fackin' useless cushy public sector layabouts, savin' our lives

Don't need 'em

Again a waste of time debating with a fool like you. Where did I say doctors and nurses had cushy numbers, you see what you want to see. Dont waste your time replying I'm done with fools like you.

Look who's sneering now

Looks like we have ourselves a zealot, eh Wobbler?

[sid waddell]

What a gotcha by the Putinbot on the polio vaccine

This is conclusive evidence all vaccines are dangerous, except the Russian one

[thewobbler]

No Sid. Not even close.

Those who demand that others blindly follow their creed are zealots. That's what zealotry is. You are a prime, grade A zealot in every aspect of your controlled thinking. Which is why you are so unlikeable.

I'm controlled by Bill Gates and have a 5G chip in me

You on the other hand are a truly free thinker who knows nothing is true, everything is possible and all opinions are equal in merit to each other, except mine, which are worthless

Your opinions are far from worthless. But the value in your opinions is all too often diminished by the conviction in presenting them as unchallengeable, and your predilection for reducing every conversation into a matter of left v right.

[thewobbler]

Fackin' useless cushy public sector layabouts, savin' our lives

Don't need 'em

Again a waste of time debating with a fool like you. Where did I say doctors and nurses had cushy numbers, you see what you want to see. Dont waste your time replying I'm done with fools like you.

Look who's sneering now

Looks like we have ourselves a zealot, eh Wobbler?

We will have another go at this Sid.

Debating with someone isn't zealotry. Disagreeing with someone isn't zealotry.

You know this too.

Stop being obtuse.

[sid waddell]

No Sid. Not even close.

Those who demand that others blindly follow their creed are zealots. That's what zealotry is. You are a prime, grade A zealot in every aspect of your controlled thinking. Which is why you are so unlikeable.

I'm controlled by Bill Gates and have a 5G chip in me

You on the other hand are a truly free thinker who knows nothing is true, everything is possible and all opinions are equal in merit to each other, except mine, which are worthless

Your opinions are far from worthless. But the value in your opinions is all too often diminished by the conviction in presenting them as unchallengeable, and your predilection for reducing every conversation into a matter of left v right.

On the contrary I always welcome challenge

To you, challenge is "zealotry" because you hold the view that every opinion is equal in merit

That is a recipe for a world in which no progress can ever be achieved, because it is a world where there is no such thing as truth or fact

We're getting to the kernel of this now

[trailer]

We're rehashing a lot of old arguments around vaccines. But I will leave you with a couple of thoughts. Unless a large percentage of the population get vaccinated certainly greater than 70% we will never have normal. It'll be rolling maybe localised lockdowns as we deal with flare ups or even worse mutations. So what is your solution / alternative?
For those people who want a better society then nothing will improve your community more than you getting the vaccine. So you can complain about governments and their handling of this pandemic but to be offered this route out and then not take it is foolish. No government will stand for a health service being overstretched. BJ made it clear with English roadmap that the vaccination programme's success is key. If it starts to run out of steam then restrictions will continue.

[Rossfan]

"Every opinion is equal in merit"
Edwin Poots' opinion is that Earth is 4,000 ( or was it 6,000) years old.
Geologists/Scientists etc say its 4 or 6,000,000,000 years old.
Equal?

I see Rudin at the personal stuff again and sneering at dyslexics as well.
He's a proper right winger alright!!

[sid waddell]

We're rehashing a lot of old arguments around vaccines. But I will leave you with a couple of thoughts. Unless a large percentage of the population get vaccinated certainly greater than 70% we will never have normal. It'll be rolling maybe localised lockdowns as we deal with flare ups or even worse mutations. So what is your solution / alternative?
For those people who want a better society then nothing will improve your community more than you getting the vaccine. So you can complain about governments and their handling of this pandemic but to be offered this route out and then not take it is foolish. No government will stand for a health service being overstretched. BJ made it clear with English roadmap that the vaccination programme's success is key. If it starts to run out of steam then restrictions will continue.

Wobbler asked the question: "why would any young person get vaccinated?"

i) because Covid poses a threat to them, perhaps not a massive threat, but a threat nonetheless
ii) because Covid poses a greater threat to older people, and we all know and love or have loved older people, and they deserve a fair shot at living
iii) because we have to exist in society - and every person alive has an interest that society functions - and it cannot function with Covid running rampant

This is about basic societal solidarity, not horrible individualism

Therefore it is entirely appropriate that society puts measures in place which give advantages to those who are responsible and disadvantages those who are not

If your mother was in hospital, should she have the choice of being treated or attended to by somebody who has refused to be vaccinated

Should she have that information

What if she is not in a position to make that choice

To any reasonable person, the answer is yes, she should have that choice, or if she is not in a position to make that choice, her loved ones should

That is a real case of empowering society to make the best decisions

And if somebody who refuses to get vaccinated suffers from that, well, that's their choice, but they shouldn't expect there not to be consequences

[thewobbler]

At no point have I ever suggested that every opinion is equal.

But if your opinion is layered with theory and/or ideology, then it is a belief. Expecting everyone else to ignore the theory and ideology, is arrogant. Demanding they do, is zealotry.

Ridiculing crazed religious fundamentalists like Poots for following this path is, in in my opinion, perfectly acceptable. They are most obviously bat shit crazy. But doing so while exhibiting similar traits when it comes to other subjects, well that's either hypocrisy or a functional inability to evaluate your own opinions at the correct level.

[Armagh18]

Do the Wobblers, Rudis etc ever wonder why polio, diphtheria,  smallpox and other former prevalent diseases don't attack us any more?
Thankfully there was no Facebook when those vaccines started.
Hopefully we will see "No vaccination No entry" policy in vogue everywhere.

nutcase.

[Taylor]

To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

[Rudi]

"Every opinion is equal in merit"
Edwin Poots' opinion is that Earth is 4,000 ( or was it 6,000) years old.
Geologists/Scientists etc say its 4 or 6,000,000,000 years old.
Equal?

I see Rudin at the personal stuff again and sneering at dyslexics as well.
He's a proper right winger alright!!

Yet again you mis repersent what is posted, thats why I suggested you may be dyslexic. I don't think you are though, I think you do this on purpose to suit your narrative. I have a daughter who is dyslexic btw & I know her daily struggles with it. Daft comment at the end of your post & no attempt to address what I actually said in relation to your original post. I have come to expect this from you over the years. As regards the personal stuff again, try actually debating what was actually said, instead of drawing daft conclusions.
You have no problem knit picking and singling out indivudual posters for ridicule (which is a form of abuse itself) yet you go crying & tell other posters to block lads yourself when they debate in a manner that doesn't suit you.
BTW your the fella who wants to block numerous posters including Sid.
I don't think your a bad lad, some of your posts are informative & decent, just lay off the ridicule of posters you don't agree with.

[Angelo]

To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

Your fundamental point is incorrect.

The only verifiable upside of a vaccine is that it reduces severity of the virus. It does not reduce people cathcing it or transmitting it that has been proven yet. It does not stop the vaccine from mutating that been proven yet.

The whole premise of your argument is flawed.

For the likes of me, someone fit and healthy in the u40 category, there is no upside to the vaccine for me that would encourage me to take it? It's not going to save my life, all it might do is give me a rather milder dose of something that is not going to cause problems anyway. But yet there are a number of zealots here who demand people should not have free will to decide whether they want to get an injection or not and there are a lot of genuine grounds for people having reservations that people are ignoring. It's basically fascism that people are trying to force this vaccine on the general population.