Cork fans flying the confederate flag

[sid waddell]

From today's Irish Times letters page:

Sir, – If Cork fans want to fly the Confederate battle flag, that is their choice. If, as some may claim, it is a harmless flag, in the context, and is only used for its colours, well, there is another flag to hand that they may use that contains the same red, white and blue, ie the British flag.

No takers? I didn't think so, given the reputation of the Tans in Cork. Well, now they know what "offensive" means. – Yours, etc,

GEARÓID Ó LOINGSIGH,
Calle,
Bogotá,
Colombia.

I'd say the Confederate flag being used by Cork fans is a symbol of secession from the Union.
It's probably more about 'the people's republic of Cork' than anything else.
To suggest it could be replaced with the Union Jack is a silly cheap shot.

The Union Jack would be less offensive.

Less offensive to who

Less offensive to anybody who recognises international law as it's an internationally recognised flag of an internationally recognised nation state which doesn't impose slavery.

I'd find it about as offensive as I would hearing God Save the Queen played at Croke Park, and I didn't find that offensive.

The British empire imposed slavery for many many years. That flag would have been seen by many as a flag of slavery. It is every bit as offensive as the 'confederate' flag. It being the flag of an internationally recognised state doesn't change that

It's very simple.

The Union Jack does not represent slavery. It's the current flag of an internationally recognised nation state which does not impose slavery.

That you find it offensive is a personal matter for you.

Loads of countries had colonial empires, such as France, Spain, Germany, Belgium, Italy and Portugal. All are internationally recognised nation states which may have imposed slavery in the past, but do not currently impose slavery.

The confederate flag is completely indivisible from racism and slavery and completely indivisible from current day racism and white supremacism because it was the symbol of an entity which was set up specifically to uphold those things.

It has no other meaning except that of racism and white supremacism.

That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.

[Jell 0 Biafra]

From the Mississippi Declaration of Secession, for those who still argue that the US civil war was primarily about states rights:


In the momentous step, which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

[omaghjoe]

A lot of symbols have a mixed or confused history. This allows current users to point to the positive history.

Not sure what the positive history of the confederate flag is that Cork fans would point to is?

Southern Identity/CUlture
Rebelliousness/Restless spirit
Wilie Nelson
Dukes of Hazard

Other emblems do each of the first 2 couplets. Other confederate flags even do that. But the flag of choice is the one that was specifically designed to rally the south to the protection of the god given supremacy of white men over all other races.

It's other uses are
A) A focal point for rednecks who continue to believe in their supremacy and
B) A fashion item for people who are ignorant in an era when information is all around them

Cork people seem to want to create a C) category i.e. People who want to copy people in category B) because copying the ignorant is a more acceptable form of ignorance

Just lift a different flag on the way out the door

You said there was nothing positive associated with it, I pointed out a few things that were.
Funnily enough for the record I was listening to this last night too...

....Great stuff

Just for the record the rest of your post is a red herring so I wont indulge.

[omaghjoe]

From today's Irish Times letters page:

Sir, – If Cork fans want to fly the Confederate battle flag, that is their choice. If, as some may claim, it is a harmless flag, in the context, and is only used for its colours, well, there is another flag to hand that they may use that contains the same red, white and blue, ie the British flag.

No takers? I didn't think so, given the reputation of the Tans in Cork. Well, now they know what "offensive" means. – Yours, etc,

GEARÓID Ó LOINGSIGH,
Calle,
Bogotá,
Colombia.

I'd say the Confederate flag being used by Cork fans is a symbol of secession from the Union.
It's probably more about 'the people's republic of Cork' than anything else.
To suggest it could be replaced with the Union Jack is a silly cheap shot.

The Union Jack would be less offensive.

Less offensive to who

Less offensive to anybody who recognises international law as it's an internationally recognised flag of an internationally recognised nation state which doesn't impose slavery.

I'd find it about as offensive as I would hearing God Save the Queen played at Croke Park, and I didn't find that offensive.

The British empire imposed slavery for many many years. That flag would have been seen by many as a flag of slavery. It is every bit as offensive as the 'confederate' flag. It being the flag of an internationally recognised state doesn't change that

It's very simple.

The Union Jack does not represent slavery. It's the current flag of an internationally recognised nation state which does not impose slavery.

That you find it offensive is a personal matter for you.

Loads of countries had colonial empires, such as France, Spain, Germany, Belgium, Italy and Portugal. All are internationally recognised nation states which may have imposed slavery in the past, but do not currently impose slavery.

The confederate flag is completely indivisible from racism and slavery and completely indivisible from current day racism and white supremacism because it was the symbol of an entity which was set up specifically to uphold those things.

It has no other meaning except that of racism and white supremacism.

That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.

So the modern day economy of Britain no longer benefits from the centuries of slave trade?

[sid waddell]

From today's Irish Times letters page:

Sir, – If Cork fans want to fly the Confederate battle flag, that is their choice. If, as some may claim, it is a harmless flag, in the context, and is only used for its colours, well, there is another flag to hand that they may use that contains the same red, white and blue, ie the British flag.

No takers? I didn't think so, given the reputation of the Tans in Cork. Well, now they know what "offensive" means. – Yours, etc,

GEARÓID Ó LOINGSIGH,
Calle,
Bogotá,
Colombia.

I'd say the Confederate flag being used by Cork fans is a symbol of secession from the Union.
It's probably more about 'the people's republic of Cork' than anything else.
To suggest it could be replaced with the Union Jack is a silly cheap shot.

The Union Jack would be less offensive.

Less offensive to who

Less offensive to anybody who recognises international law as it's an internationally recognised flag of an internationally recognised nation state which doesn't impose slavery.

I'd find it about as offensive as I would hearing God Save the Queen played at Croke Park, and I didn't find that offensive.

The British empire imposed slavery for many many years. That flag would have been seen by many as a flag of slavery. It is every bit as offensive as the 'confederate' flag. It being the flag of an internationally recognised state doesn't change that

It's very simple.

The Union Jack does not represent slavery. It's the current flag of an internationally recognised nation state which does not impose slavery.

That you find it offensive is a personal matter for you.

Loads of countries had colonial empires, such as France, Spain, Germany, Belgium, Italy and Portugal. All are internationally recognised nation states which may have imposed slavery in the past, but do not currently impose slavery.

The confederate flag is completely indivisible from racism and slavery and completely indivisible from current day racism and white supremacism because it was the symbol of an entity which was set up specifically to uphold those things.

It has no other meaning except that of racism and white supremacism.

That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.

So the modern day economy of Britain no longer benefits from the centuries of slave trade?

There are a load of countries who benefit from the long-term effects of the centuries of slave trade.

The United States chief among them.

Are you asking for the stars and stripes to be done away with?

[omaghjoe]

From today's Irish Times letters page:

Sir, – If Cork fans want to fly the Confederate battle flag, that is their choice. If, as some may claim, it is a harmless flag, in the context, and is only used for its colours, well, there is another flag to hand that they may use that contains the same red, white and blue, ie the British flag.

No takers? I didn't think so, given the reputation of the Tans in Cork. Well, now they know what "offensive" means. – Yours, etc,

GEARÓID Ó LOINGSIGH,
Calle,
Bogotá,
Colombia.

I'd say the Confederate flag being used by Cork fans is a symbol of secession from the Union.
It's probably more about 'the people's republic of Cork' than anything else.
To suggest it could be replaced with the Union Jack is a silly cheap shot.

The Union Jack would be less offensive.

Less offensive to who

Less offensive to anybody who recognises international law as it's an internationally recognised flag of an internationally recognised nation state which doesn't impose slavery.

I'd find it about as offensive as I would hearing God Save the Queen played at Croke Park, and I didn't find that offensive.

The British empire imposed slavery for many many years. That flag would have been seen by many as a flag of slavery. It is every bit as offensive as the 'confederate' flag. It being the flag of an internationally recognised state doesn't change that

It's very simple.

The Union Jack does not represent slavery. It's the current flag of an internationally recognised nation state which does not impose slavery.

That you find it offensive is a personal matter for you.

Loads of countries had colonial empires, such as France, Spain, Germany, Belgium, Italy and Portugal. All are internationally recognised nation states which may have imposed slavery in the past, but do not currently impose slavery.

The confederate flag is completely indivisible from racism and slavery and completely indivisible from current day racism and white supremacism because it was the symbol of an entity which was set up specifically to uphold those things.

It has no other meaning except that of racism and white supremacism.

That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.

So the modern day economy of Britain no longer benefits from the centuries of slave trade?

There are a load of countries who benefit from the long-term effects of the centuries of slave trade.

The United States chief among them.

Are you asking for the stars and stripes to be done away with?

No.... are you?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.

That you don't find objectionable the flag of a country that still occupies part of your own, and which has a reprehensible overseas history to this day with ill-starred military excursions in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc., being simply the latest instalment is your choice; and it's also the prerogative of some of us more directly affected to take an alternative position.

[LCohen]

The fact is, I've seen Cork fans fly it since the late 1980's, and never heard a peep about it. Now someone drew attention to it because it coincided with this Charlottesville thing, and now we are all told we should feel disgusted by it.

This is all coming from the big lads in Croke Park, the focus is on the GAA, and it's tarnishing the GAA's name. Well, those same big lads have sat back for 30 years and seen the flag flown, knowing it's significance and meanng, but it's only now they're up in arms about it. Hypocrisy, how are ye?

If things have been wrong for a while we should just let them be. Doing anything about it would risk an accusation of hypocrisy and we couldn't have that now

[LCohen]

From today's Irish Times letters page:

Sir, – If Cork fans want to fly the Confederate battle flag, that is their choice. If, as some may claim, it is a harmless flag, in the context, and is only used for its colours, well, there is another flag to hand that they may use that contains the same red, white and blue, ie the British flag.

No takers? I didn't think so, given the reputation of the Tans in Cork. Well, now they know what "offensive" means. – Yours, etc,

GEARÓID Ó LOINGSIGH,
Calle,
Bogotá,
Colombia.

I'd say the Confederate flag being used by Cork fans is a symbol of secession from the Union.
It's probably more about 'the people's republic of Cork' than anything else.
To suggest it could be replaced with the Union Jack is a silly cheap shot.

The Union Jack would be less offensive.

Less offensive to who

Less offensive to anybody who recognises international law as it's an internationally recognised flag of an internationally recognised nation state which doesn't impose slavery.

I'd find it about as offensive as I would hearing God Save the Queen played at Croke Park, and I didn't find that offensive.

The British empire imposed slavery for many many years. That flag would have been seen by many as a flag of slavery. It is every bit as offensive as the 'confederate' flag. It being the flag of an internationally recognised state doesn't change that

The British state did many bad things. The Irish state did many bad things. Probably any state that has been around for long has done bad things. But they have all done good things also. The confederate states were banded together for one thing. Something repulsive. Something to distance yourself from

[LCohen]

A lot of symbols have a mixed or confused history. This allows current users to point to the positive history.

Not sure what the positive history of the confederate flag is that Cork fans would point to is?

Southern Identity/CUlture
Rebelliousness/Restless spirit
Wilie Nelson
Dukes of Hazard

Other emblems do each of the first 2 couplets. Other confederate flags even do that. But the flag of choice is the one that was specifically designed to rally the south to the protection of the god given supremacy of white men over all other races.

It's other uses are
A) A focal point for rednecks who continue to believe in their supremacy and
B) A fashion item for people who are ignorant in an era when information is all around them

Cork people seem to want to create a C) category i.e. People who want to copy people in category B) because copying the ignorant is a more acceptable form of ignorance

Just lift a different flag on the way out the door

You said there was nothing positive associated with it, I pointed out a few things that were.
Funnily enough for the record I was listening to this last night too...

....Great stuff

Just for the record the rest of your post is a red herring so I wont indulge.

Your judgement is seriously flawed

[stew]

The fact is, I've seen Cork fans fly it since the late 1980's, and never heard a peep about it. Now someone drew attention to it because it coincided with this Charlottesville thing, and now we are all told we should feel disgusted by it.

This is all coming from the big lads in Croke Park, the focus is on the GAA, and it's tarnishing the GAA's name. Well, those same big lads have sat back for 30 years and seen the flag flown, knowing it's significance and meanng, but it's only now they're up in arms about it. Hypocrisy, how are ye?

If things have been wrong for a while we should just let them be. Doing anything about it would risk an accusation of hypocrisy and we couldn't have that now

The sheep are told what to think by their media and they react, I have never seen anything like it, the media kick up a fuss overseas so naturally the Cork fans that have been flying a confederate flag are suddenly racists, I have never seen anything quite like peoples response to liberal media these days, the so called reporters write about a perceived issue and the sheep bleat on social media with faux outrage, which would be fine except where was their outrage before the were told they needed to be outraged?

Catch yourselves on snowflakes, the confederate flag being flown in Croker has nothing to do with Slavery etc and everything to do with the word Rebels, no racism to see here, go find a protest to join about something else you are outraged about!

[BennyCake]

The fact is, I've seen Cork fans fly it since the late 1980's, and never heard a peep about it. Now someone drew attention to it because it coincided with this Charlottesville thing, and now we are all told we should feel disgusted by it.

This is all coming from the big lads in Croke Park, the focus is on the GAA, and it's tarnishing the GAA's name. Well, those same big lads have sat back for 30 years and seen the flag flown, knowing it's significance and meanng, but it's only now they're up in arms about it. Hypocrisy, how are ye?

If things have been wrong for a while we should just let them be. Doing anything about it would risk an accusation of hypocrisy and we couldn't have that now

The sheep are told what to think by their media and they react, I have never seen anything like it, the media kick up a fuss overseas so naturally the Cork fans that have been flying a confederate flag are suddenly racists, I have never seen anything quite like peoples response to liberal media these days, the so called reporters write about a perceived issue and the sheep bleat on social media with faux outrage, which would be fine except where was their outrage before the were told they needed to be outraged?

Catch yourselves on snowflakes, the confederate flag being flown in Croker has nothing to do with Slavery etc and everything to do with the word Rebels, no racism to see here, go find a protest to join about something else you are outraged about!

Exactly. Nail on the head.

[sid waddell]

That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.

That you don't find objectionable the flag of a country that still occupies part of your own, and which has a reprehensible overseas history to this day with ill-starred military excursions in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc., being simply the latest instalment is your choice; and it's also the prerogative of some of us more directly affected to take an alternative position.

Of course it's your prerogative.

But are you objecting to the legitimacy of the UK flag as the flag of an internationally recognised nation state or denying the right of anybody in the UK to fly it should they so wish?

[sid waddell]

The fact is, I've seen Cork fans fly it since the late 1980's, and never heard a peep about it. Now someone drew attention to it because it coincided with this Charlottesville thing, and now we are all told we should feel disgusted by it.

This is all coming from the big lads in Croke Park, the focus is on the GAA, and it's tarnishing the GAA's name. Well, those same big lads have sat back for 30 years and seen the flag flown, knowing it's significance and meanng, but it's only now they're up in arms about it. Hypocrisy, how are ye?

If things have been wrong for a while we should just let them be. Doing anything about it would risk an accusation of hypocrisy and we couldn't have that now

The sheep are told what to think by their media and they react, I have never seen anything like it, the media kick up a fuss overseas so naturally the Cork fans that have been flying a confederate flag are suddenly racists, I have never seen anything quite like peoples response to liberal media these days, the so called reporters write about a perceived issue and the sheep bleat on social media with faux outrage, which would be fine except where was their outrage before the were told they needed to be outraged?

Catch yourselves on snowflakes, the confederate flag being flown in Croker has nothing to do with Slavery etc and everything to do with the word Rebels, no racism to see here, go find a protest to join about something else you are outraged about!

As always, you prove yourself the ultimate snowflake.

Try and spend less time obsessing over "liberal media" and actually learning something about the issue you choose to ignorantly steam in on, rather than taking stupid, inflexible positions purely as a reaction to an entirely imagined bogeyman.

[trileacman]

The fact is, I've seen Cork fans fly it since the late 1980's, and never heard a peep about it. Now someone drew attention to it because it coincided with this Charlottesville thing, and now we are all told we should feel disgusted by it.

This is all coming from the big lads in Croke Park, the focus is on the GAA, and it's tarnishing the GAA's name. Well, those same big lads have sat back for 30 years and seen the flag flown, knowing it's significance and meanng, but it's only now they're up in arms about it. Hypocrisy, how are ye?

If things have been wrong for a while we should just let them be. Doing anything about it would risk an accusation of hypocrisy and we couldn't have that now

The sheep are told what to think by their media and they react, I have never seen anything like it, the media kick up a fuss overseas so naturally the Cork fans that have been flying a confederate flag are suddenly racists, I have never seen anything quite like peoples response to liberal media these days, the so called reporters write about a perceived issue and the sheep bleat on social media with faux outrage, which would be fine except where was their outrage before the were told they needed to be outraged?

Catch yourselves on snowflakes, the confederate flag being flown in Croker has nothing to do with Slavery etc and everything to do with the word Rebels, no racism to see here, go find a protest to join about something else you are outraged about!

I would disagree with at least 7000 of your posts but you've hit the nail bang on the head here.