Cork fans flying the confederate flag

[Keyser soze]

The levels of righteous indignation from people getting hot under the collar, taking themselves so seriously 

Imagine taking racism and the issue of racist flags so seriously. 

Mental, isn't it?

I mean, you can't even call somebody a "black ****" now and not have somebody object.

I mean, it's just a bit of craic.

Personally I think Sligo supporters should dress up in blackface.

That'll teach 'em.

Now you are being foolish.

In Ireland the Union flag would be seen as a symbol of oppression and occupation by a foreign country and therefore many would rightfully object to it being flown and flouted as it often blatantly is.

Someone at a football match in Denver or Doha flying the same flag because it has their team colours would not be seen as being provocative though.

Your examples equating it to blatant racist behaviour serve only to highlight the paucity of your argument.

The confederate flag is an unequivocal symbol of racism and slavery, just as the Nazi flag is an unequivocal symbol of anti-semitism, racism and genocide.

It doesn't matter where they are flown, the symbolism is the same.

The flag of the United Kingdom is the current flag of an internationally recognised nation state. It is not a flag that symbolises oppression or slavery, much as you might not like it.

The same goes for the Irish tricolour.

This is all terribly easy stuff to understand, yet you're one of a surprisingly high number of posters who can't grasp such.

And you are one of a large number of posters who have jumped on a bandwagon within the last few days, having seen that flag flying at Cork matches for years without demur, and making it out now to be a racist act when it never crossed your tiny mind at any point previously about whether it should be flown or not flown in CP. 

If you and your fellow travellers who are so moralistic about it where was your moral outrage before?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Don't anyone quote the colours involved in any flag FFS -- they're totally incidental to the pattern. Talk about straw men!

The Irish tricolour??

Exactly, my primary case in point ( though the Butcher's Apron had a supporting role).

[tonto1888]

I'm reluctant to get into this, but The Nazi flag has not even the remotest connection with Cork. The confederate flag is Red, but is also from the South, and the protagonists were called the Rebels. The Nazi flag is a straw man.

That said, they use the Chinese Flag, Che Quevera Flags and others, so who knows.

The "south" and "rebels" are about as thin a justification for the use of a racist flag as one could possibly think up.

The NAZIs started out as a rebel outfit who tried to overthrow the government by force before Hitler decided propaganda and the ballet box and behind the scenes murder and intimidation was the way to go. Had they not succeeded and were consigned to history as a failed (before taking power), defeated outfit like the Confederacy, would that justify Cork using their flag? Is there something romantic about the confederacy that isn't there with the NAZIs because they caused a world conflict and murdered millions, instead of starting a war costing hundreds of thousands of lives in an effort to preserve the enslavement of an entire race? Is it an issue of degree?

Let's say Apartheid South Africa had used a red flag? They were a "southern" outfit. Would THAT have been ok to use?

All these flags symbolize similar world views. Splitting hairs over "rebel" and "south" and so on is not a strong argument in favour of their use. Neither is "well, we use the Confederate flag but at least we are not using the swastika!"

They're not flying a nazi flag. Apartheid South Africa didn't have a red flag. Cut out the whatabouttery will ye

[tonto1888]

And can we stop calling it the confederate flag, because it isn't the confederate flag

[J70]

I'm reluctant to get into this, but The Nazi flag has not even the remotest connection with Cork. The confederate flag is Red, but is also from the South, and the protagonists were called the Rebels. The Nazi flag is a straw man.

That said, they use the Chinese Flag, Che Quevera Flags and others, so who knows.

The "south" and "rebels" are about as thin a justification for the use of a racist flag as one could possibly think up.

The NAZIs started out as a rebel outfit who tried to overthrow the government by force before Hitler decided propaganda and the ballet box and behind the scenes murder and intimidation was the way to go. Had they not succeeded and were consigned to history as a failed (before taking power), defeated outfit like the Confederacy, would that justify Cork using their flag? Is there something romantic about the confederacy that isn't there with the NAZIs because they caused a world conflict and murdered millions, instead of starting a war costing hundreds of thousands of lives in an effort to preserve the enslavement of an entire race? Is it an issue of degree?

Let's say Apartheid South Africa had used a red flag? They were a "southern" outfit. Would THAT have been ok to use?

All these flags symbolize similar world views. Splitting hairs over "rebel" and "south" and so on is not a strong argument in favour of their use. Neither is "well, we use the Confederate flag but at least we are not using the swastika!"

They're not flying a nazi flag. Apartheid South Africa didn't have a red flag. Cut out the whatabouttery will ye

Talk about missing the point!

[AZOffaly]

I'm not excusing anything. I was only giving reasons why it was thought suitable in the first place Red, Rebel, South. In the 80s that would have made sense

[J70]

And can we stop calling it the confederate flag, because it isn't the confederate flag

Er... no, I for one don't plan to stop calling it that.

Wheel out the Stars and Bars and the battle flag stuff all you want, as if that changes anything.

[sid waddell]

The levels of righteous indignation from people getting hot under the collar, taking themselves so seriously 

Imagine taking racism and the issue of racist flags so seriously. 

Mental, isn't it?

I mean, you can't even call somebody a "black ****" now and not have somebody object.

I mean, it's just a bit of craic.

Personally I think Sligo supporters should dress up in blackface.

That'll teach 'em.

Now you are being foolish.

In Ireland the Union flag would be seen as a symbol of oppression and occupation by a foreign country and therefore many would rightfully object to it being flown and flouted as it often blatantly is.

Someone at a football match in Denver or Doha flying the same flag because it has their team colours would not be seen as being provocative though.

Your examples equating it to blatant racist behaviour serve only to highlight the paucity of your argument.

The confederate flag is an unequivocal symbol of racism and slavery, just as the Nazi flag is an unequivocal symbol of anti-semitism, racism and genocide.

It doesn't matter where they are flown, the symbolism is the same.

The flag of the United Kingdom is the current flag of an internationally recognised nation state. It is not a flag that symbolises oppression or slavery, much as you might not like it.

The same goes for the Irish tricolour.

This is all terribly easy stuff to understand, yet you're one of a surprisingly high number of posters who can't grasp such.

And you are one of a large number of posters who have jumped on a bandwagon within the last few days, having seen that flag flying at Cork matches for years without demur, and making it out now to be a racist act when it never crossed your tiny mind at any point previously about whether it should be flown or not flown in CP. 

If you and your fellow travellers who are so moralistic about it where was your moral outrage before?

There have been complaints about the confederate flag flying at Cork matches since at least the year 2000.

People like you believe ignorance is acceptable.

Ignorance is not acceptable in this day and age and neither is it any longer believable.

You appear to be arguing that if something was once considered acceptable, that it should always be so.

Societies once considered it acceptable to call a black person a "n*****".

Presumably, going by the logic of your "point" about the confederate flag, you believe this should still be the case.

Would you say "it was acceptable in the 1940s, where was your moral outrage then?"

Presumably you would.

[tonto1888]

And can we stop calling it the confederate flag, because it isn't the confederate flag

Er... no, I for one don't plan to stop calling it that.

Wheel out the Stars and Bars and the battle flag stuff all you want, as if that changes anything.

It ain't the confederate flag is it. And no. I didn't miss the point. You're trying to introduce what ifs into the equation. What if they fly a nazi flag. They don't. What if South Africa flag during apartheid was red and they flew that. It wasn't and they don't. If they do fly a nazi flag then by all means trash them for it

[AZOffaly]

tonto in fairness, the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia is commonly referred to as the Confederate Flag now.  Perhaps more accurate to say a flag 'of the confederacy'. But to the people who fly it, and who put it on bumper stickers, it *is* the CSA they are paying homage to.

First official flag of the Confederacy



Second Flag



Third Flag




The Confederate Battle Flag, originally the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. This is the flag that was incorporated into the 2nd and 3rd flags.



Also, unofficially, the flag of Garryowen Rugby club, I mean, the Bonnie Blue Flag

[J70]

And can we stop calling it the confederate flag, because it isn't the confederate flag

Er... no, I for one don't plan to stop calling it that.

Wheel out the Stars and Bars and the battle flag stuff all you want, as if that changes anything.

It ain't the confederate flag is it. And no. I didn't miss the point. You're trying to introduce what ifs into the equation. What if they fly a nazi flag. They don't. What if South Africa flag during apartheid was red and they flew that. It wasn't and they don't. If they do fly a nazi flag then by all means trash them for it

It was a flag used by the Confederate army and is now THE symbol of the confederacy and is used by white supremacists and southern states as such. When one talks about the Confederate flag, the battle flag is the one that is understood to be the object to which one is referring. If you want to be a pedant, knock yourself out, but it in no way helps whatever point it is you're trying to make.

And the point about the NAZI or apartheid flags is that they symbolize the same kind of thing as the Confederate flag and that the Confederate flag is in no way more respectable than they are.

[tonto1888]

And can we stop calling it the confederate flag, because it isn't the confederate flag

Er... no, I for one don't plan to stop calling it that.

Wheel out the Stars and Bars and the battle flag stuff all you want, as if that changes anything.

It ain't the confederate flag is it. And no. I didn't miss the point. You're trying to introduce what ifs into the equation. What if they fly a nazi flag. They don't. What if South Africa flag during apartheid was red and they flew that. It wasn't and they don't. If they do fly a nazi flag then by all means trash them for it

It was a flag used by the Confederate army and is now THE symbol of the confederacy and is used by white supremacists and southern states as such. When one talks about the Confederate flag, the battle flag is the one that is understood to be the object to which one is referring. If you want to be a pedant, knock yourself out, but it in no way helps whatever point it is you're trying to make.

And the point about the NAZI or apartheid flags is that they symbolize the same kind of thing as the Confederate flag and that the Confederate flag is in no way more respectable than they are.

I haven't made any point on this argument one way or the other. Perhaps I am being pedantic but sure why not.
Yes they symbolise the same kind of things but why bring them into the argument meant and say what if they were flying them. They aren't. It's a moot point. IMO.
I'm like you. Loved dukes of hazard. I had a tshirt that had that flag on it when I was younger too. Not anymore though.
Another point is why are people only now making such an issue of it? Or has there been as big a deal made if it before? I can remember seeing them flyers my it for years but can't remember a deal being made if it in the past. Mthey also have a che Guevara flag. Has anyone any problems with that?

[BennyCake]

I suppose Antrim fans can no longer bring the Vatican flag to matches, in case it offends Protestant Antrim fans.

[Orior]

So what is the worst that can happen when Cork fans fly the confederate flag?

1) Gaelic supporters rush out and sign up to white supremacy
2) White supremacists is the southern states of USA read it an an endorsement and proceed with gay abandon

In my opinion (which I rate very highly) both the above scenarios are highly unlikely. Unless of course you're someone who takes offence at anything remotely related to a march of racist thugs.

[J70]

The Dylan Roof massacre, along with Trump, brought the Confederate symbols and statues issue to a head, but it's been an issue for years.

Like anything involving public opinion and support, there is always a turning point that accelerates the change, where you reach a point of critical mass.

I'm sure like everything these days, social media and the internet have been significant too.

What might have been local, disconnected events or issues now receive wide publicity and spread.