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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2017, 06:46:45 PM

Title: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2017, 06:46:45 PM
Stop it.  >:(
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Jinxy on August 14, 2017, 06:52:38 PM
Don't think we have any Cork fans here.
Maybe one of the Kerry lads could pass on the message
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: seafoid on August 14, 2017, 07:02:03 PM
De Rebels boi.
Obviously stuff like Jim crow is not very well understood cois Laoi. And as for lynching they had Jack.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: mrhardyannual on August 14, 2017, 07:05:30 PM
I don't believe that any Cork supporter flies the Confederate flag in support of White Supremacy. Let's not become slaves to political correctness. What next? Should the river Lee become the Lincoln?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: screenexile on August 14, 2017, 07:23:46 PM
I don't believe that any Cork supporter flies the Confederate flag in support of White Supremacy. Let's not become slaves to political correctness. What next? Should the river Lee become the Lincoln?

Yeah but there was a big deal made about it and they shouldn't have done it.

They're Cork though and don't like being dictated to even though it's in bad form and they would have known the sensitivities around it!
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2017, 07:48:59 PM
I take it that this thread is only a pisstake.
I mean Cork were Rebels before Columbus got to America, never mind the American Civil War and all that craic.
All to do with Cork's support for Lambert Simnel, one of the pretenders to Henry VIII's throne back in 1487 or thereabouts.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: AZOffaly on August 14, 2017, 07:51:36 PM
Larry Cork are the Rebels but the confederate flag is certainly not of Cork. I never pass much remarks on it but I suppose in this day and age you shouldn't  use it given its connotations today.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2017, 08:10:53 PM
I don't believe that any Cork supporter flies the Confederate flag in support of White Supremacy. Let's not become slaves to political correctness. What next? Should the river Lee become the Lincoln?

Fly the Nazi flag, so. It's red and white isn't it? Anything else is "political correctness gone mad."
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: whitey on August 14, 2017, 08:29:04 PM
I sure hope the Swastika Laundry don't reopen and become sponsors of the Dublin Team

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika_Laundry
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: BennyCake on August 14, 2017, 08:33:37 PM
Get Boss Hogg on the case. He'll run those Cork White Supremacists out of town.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Wildweasel74 on August 14, 2017, 09:39:24 PM
Go better than that: was in portrush last week and saw a confederate flag with skull on it titled with the south will rise again; now that be the type of flag i say was a tad racist!
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 14, 2017, 11:15:57 PM
Larry Cork are the Rebels but the confederate flag is certainly not of Cork. I never pass much remarks on it but I suppose in this day and age you shouldn't  use it given its connotations today.
True but best to say sweet damn all. The langers have been waving Confederate flags for years but it was always meant to be a bit of craic. I don't know of any Cork person would use the flag to promote white supremacy in any shape or form.    Best let the fuss die down and get on with life- it's hard enough as it is without starting controversies about issues we have no control over.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 14, 2017, 11:56:15 PM
No control over whether or not you carry a racist flag?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: rionach 4 on August 15, 2017, 12:31:51 AM
I agree entirely  That flag should never be flown but it has been in the past for years and years and very few if any muttered a word. It had the same connotations then as it has now. This is what sickens me about today's PC world. I hated it then and I hate it now despite any recent events. Come on Cork get rid of it.(and I know sometimes easier said than done.)
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: trileacman on August 15, 2017, 12:32:09 AM
f**k people like to get offended by f**k all. I'm sure the millions of African-American langers were very upset by the Confederate flag at the game.  ::)
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: trileacman on August 15, 2017, 12:35:20 AM
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Used to see that flown at Cork games. Given the atrocities committed by Imperial Japan should we decry it's use as well?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 15, 2017, 12:36:41 AM
The confederate flag should be treated as a Nazi flag would be treated.

It's not a bit of craic.

I'd much prefer if Cork supporters flew the English flag.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Mayo4Sam14 on August 15, 2017, 12:44:37 AM
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Used to see that flown at Cork games. Given the atrocities committed by Imperial Japan should we decry it's use as well?

Yes because why jusy why? 😂😂 do cork not make flags
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 15, 2017, 01:24:00 AM
f**k people like to get offended by f**k all. I'm sure the millions of African-American langers were very upset by the Confederate flag at the game.  ::)

"F**k all?"
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 15, 2017, 06:03:48 AM
Flying the Confederate Flag feeds into the delusional Langer narrative that they're the 'Rebel County', totally obliviously to events in the wider world. The real question is: why do they still cleave to that ridiculously out-dated misconception -- my sock is more rebellious than they have been for many a year, dyed in the wool arch-conventionalists as they have long been! :P ;)
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: mup on August 15, 2017, 08:31:58 AM
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Used to see that flown at Cork games. Given the atrocities committed by Imperial Japan should we decry it's use as well?

Not to mention those suffering the after effects of a days drinking and the extra spicy curry from the local Chinese Restaurant on the way home.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Taylor on August 15, 2017, 09:14:37 AM
People are actually going out of their way to be offended by things & now in the age of the Internet they can cry even louder about it.
Seriously, who gives a flying f**k what flag they fly at games?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 15, 2017, 09:16:49 AM
People are actually going out of their way to be offended by things & now in the age of the Internet they can cry even louder about it.
Seriously, who gives a flying f**k what flag they fly at games?
Cool, I'll bring a Nazi flag to a match to see how this "point" bears out.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: OakleafCounty on August 15, 2017, 09:33:24 AM
Criticising anyone for having a Confederate flag because white supremacists use it is like criticising people who fly tricolours or starry plough flags because dissident republicans identify with them. I think one of the main leaders of the Confederate army was Cork born and plenty of Irish men died fighting in that army and Cork fans have been flying it along with many others for decades offending nobody until now.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 15, 2017, 09:52:18 AM
Criticising anyone for having a Confederate flag because white supremacists use it is like criticising people who fly tricolours or starry plough flags because dissident republicans identify with them. I think one of the main leaders of the Confederate army was Cork born and plenty of Irish men died fighting in that army and Cork fans have been flying it along with many others for decades offending nobody until now.
The confederate flag isn't merely "a flag that white supremacists use".

It is a racist, white supremacist flag.

The poisonous ideology of racist white supremacism is indivisible from it.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: stew on August 15, 2017, 10:24:30 AM
The confederate flag should be treated as a Nazi flag would be treated.

It's not a bit of craic.

I'd much prefer if Cork supporters flew the English flag.

FFS! Power to the people comrade!

newsflash kid, if people 4,000 miles away from the deep south raise a confederate flag at an amateur sporting event, it is not necessarily to support white supremacists, it might be, and I could be wrong here, be flown to signify the fact that the county they support are known as the rebels, rebels in fact, that predate the American civil war, were was the faux outrage before the liberal media decided the confederate flag was vile and evil? The confederate flag flying in Croke park has absolutely no ties to any American political agenda, tha should be enough but sadly it is not.
 
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 15, 2017, 10:34:47 AM
The confederate flag should be treated as a Nazi flag would be treated.

It's not a bit of craic.

I'd much prefer if Cork supporters flew the English flag.

FFS! Power to the people comrade!

newsflash kid, if people 4,000 miles away from the deep south raise a confederate flag at an amateur sporting event, it is not necessarily to support white supremacists, it might be, and I could be wrong here, be flown to signify the fact that the county they support are known as the rebels, rebels in fact, that predate the American civil war, were was the faux outrage before the liberal media decided the confederate flag was vile and evil? The confederate flag flying in Croke park has absolutely no ties to any American political agenda, tha should be enough but sadly it is not.
Yes, and should any Kildare supporters decide to don KKK-style hoods at a match, that would be purely because those hoods are the same colours as the Kildare team, and nothing racist at all should be read into it.

Or something like that.

The swastika symbol predates the Nazis by thousands of years. Therefore if I fly a swastika flag, it should not be assumed that it is tied to any political agenda.

Or something something.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: thefont on August 15, 2017, 10:42:34 AM
This one isn't too hard lads surely? Times change - move with the times.

I've lived in America and would consider myself fairly informed on the nature of racial tensions there but being honest I never would have connected the confederate flag being flown at sports games with white supremacism - but now I do.

It was a bit of craic and no offense was/is intended but now it's over. It's no major blow to the ego to admit you were a bit ignorant about something when you come to know better finally.

To the 'pc gone mad' crowd, I think a look in the mirror is warranted.  What about the rangers fans flying orange order flags and the like at matches. Sure it's only a bit of craic, as it the Orange order itself. A nice day out and a bit of music, it's been going for hundreds of years and the world hasn't ended.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: BennyCake on August 15, 2017, 10:55:43 AM
People are actually going out of their way to be offended by things & now in the age of the Internet they can cry even louder about it.
Seriously, who gives a flying f**k what flag they fly at games?
Cool, I'll bring a Nazi flag to a match to see how this "point" bears out.

Nice one. Let me know so I have enough time to grow the tache.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Dire Ear on August 15, 2017, 11:01:51 AM
If they can spell "confederate", they can fly it  ;D
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: BennyCake on August 15, 2017, 11:06:56 AM
Someone flying a Union flag at England/Norn Iron match - is that not offensive to atheists, given the links to the saints and christianity?

If someone brought a rainbow flag to Croke Park, is that not offensive to those opposed to gay rights/marriage?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Esmarelda on August 15, 2017, 11:12:39 AM
This one isn't too hard lads surely? Times change - move with the times.

I've lived in America and would consider myself fairly informed on the nature of racial tensions there but being honest I never would have connected the confederate flag being flown at sports games with white supremacism - but now I do.

It was a bit of craic and no offense was/is intended but now it's over. It's no major blow to the ego to admit you were a bit ignorant about something when you come to know better finally.

To the 'pc gone mad' crowd, I think a look in the mirror is warranted.  What about the rangers fans flying orange order flags and the like at matches. Sure it's only a bit of craic, as it the Orange order itself. A nice day out and a bit of music, it's been going for hundreds of years and the world hasn't ended.
This post has been up for half an hour. Surely this should be pulled up by now.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Taylor on August 15, 2017, 04:43:30 PM
If you want to you can find offence with everything FFS.

Crowd of whinging bollocks.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Mayo4Sam14 on August 15, 2017, 04:50:52 PM
If you want to you can find offence with everything FFS.

Crowd of whinging bollocks.

Im not finding offence, im just asking why? It has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to cork
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Orior on August 15, 2017, 08:07:17 PM
Cork fans have been flying the Confederate flag since I first started watching Gaelic on television. Anyone who thinks Cork fans were endorsing white supremacy need to have a serious look at themselves. Plus, they can shove their 'offence' up their arse.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Syferus on August 15, 2017, 08:09:49 PM
Times change. The flag has very different popular connotations than it did even ten years ago where it was seen as a much more benign rebel image, that is outside of the South where it was always a loaded flag.

Grow up, cavemen.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Lamh Dhearg Alba on August 15, 2017, 08:53:55 PM
The confederate flag should be treated as a Nazi flag would be treated.

It's not a bit of craic.

I'd much prefer if Cork supporters flew the English flag.

FFS! Power to the people comrade!

newsflash kid, if people 4,000 miles away from the deep south raise a confederate flag at an amateur sporting event, it is not necessarily to support white supremacists, it might be, and I could be wrong here, be flown to signify the fact that the county they support are known as the rebels, rebels in fact, that predate the American civil war, were was the faux outrage before the liberal media decided the confederate flag was vile and evil? The confederate flag flying in Croke park has absolutely no ties to any American political agenda, tha should be enough but sadly it is not.

Outraged by Tyrone GAA players allegedly cheating but fine with Irish sports fans flying a racist flag  :o

The flag represents a truly shameful part of American history, the confederacy was built open slavery. Even after defeat in the Civil War the confederate states waited then brought in new measures to put the black community back under their shoe. Those measures lasted in some states until the 1970's. There are still people today who yearn for those days and who would rally behind that flag. It doesn't matter if Cork are the rebels, flying the Confederate flag is wrong. Anybody who pushes the "political correctness gone mad" argument clearly doesn't understand the history and connotations of the flag.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Mayo4Sam14 on August 15, 2017, 09:09:55 PM
Cork fans have been flying the Confederate flag since I first started watching Gaelic on television. Anyone who thinks Cork fans were endorsing white supremacy need to have a serious look at themselves. Plus, they can shove their 'offence' up their arse.

Nobody thinks but its just so pointless, why not just fly a cork flag?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Jinxy on August 15, 2017, 09:14:56 PM
I think they should ditch it purely because it's not worth the hassle the bearer will ultimately bring upon themselves, but I find the sudden explosion of outrage a bit much.
If you're offended by the sight of the Confederate flag, don't ever visit the Southern states of America.
Or maybe you should visit, and chastise every person you see over there with a confederate flag hanging outside their house or on a bumper sticker.
Or better still denounce them as racists to their face.
I've little or no interest in flags of any description but this craic whereby the 'concerned citizens of the internet' get together to decide what is and isn't offensive is starting to bug me.
Were the Dukes of Hazzard racist?
Well, maybe the blonde lad was but I'll kill any man who says anything bad about Daisy.

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Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Mayo4Sam14 on August 15, 2017, 09:16:29 PM
I think they should ditch it purely because it's not worth the hassle the bearer will ultimately bring upon themselves, but I find the sudden explosion of outrage a bit much.
If you're offended by the sight of the Confederate flag, don't ever visit the Southern states of America.
Or maybe you should visit, and chastise every person you see over there with a confederate flag hanging outside their house or on a bumper sticker.
Or better still denounce them as racists to their face.
I've little or no interest in flags of any description but this craic whereby the 'concerned citizens of the internet' get together to decide what is and isn't offensive is starting to bug me.
Were the Dukes of Hazzard racist?
Well, maybe the blonde lad was but I'll kill any man who says anything bad about Daisy.

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But why not just fly a cork flag?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Itchy on August 15, 2017, 09:30:45 PM
There are plenty of other red and white flags in the world the stupid langers can wave. Leave the one with rascist history at home.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: seafoid on August 15, 2017, 09:33:20 PM
https://youtu.be/jPVC8Y4aJdc
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Jinxy on August 15, 2017, 09:33:31 PM
I've never brought a flag to a game in my life so if they banned the whole lot of them it wouldn't bother me.
Just spare me the righteous indignation of Irish social media users who would no doubt be horrified to learn that the State flag of Mississippi still contains the confederate battle flag.

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Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Syferus on August 15, 2017, 09:34:55 PM
I've never brought a flag to a game in my life so if they banned the whole lot of them it wouldn't bother me.
Just spare me the righteous indignation of Irish social media users who would no doubt be horrified to learn that the State flag of Mississippi still contains the confederate battle flag.

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You realise that says way more about how backward Mississippi is rather than it does about Irish social media warriors, right?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: trileacman on August 15, 2017, 09:35:46 PM
There are plenty of other red and white flags in the world the stupid langers can wave. Leave the one with rascist history at home.

Where's the line though? The flag of the rising sun is red and white but are then codoning the atrocities of imperial Japan? Any man that's fit to tell me that the confederate flag is offensive then what about the flag of the rising sun?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: yellowcard on August 15, 2017, 09:36:05 PM
It's pure guesswork but I'd doubt if those flying the flag even knew what it stood for. Now that it's connotations are widely known I'd expect that they refrain from flying it. Im not even sure why any Cork GAA county supporter feels the need to fly this or indeed any other non Cork GAA flag in any case.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Lamh Dhearg Alba on August 15, 2017, 09:42:59 PM
I think they should ditch it purely because it's not worth the hassle the bearer will ultimately bring upon themselves, but I find the sudden explosion of outrage a bit much.
If you're offended by the sight of the Confederate flag, don't ever visit the Southern states of America.
Or maybe you should visit, and chastise every person you see over there with a confederate flag hanging outside their house or on a bumper sticker.
Or better still denounce them as racists to their face.
I've little or no interest in flags of any description but this craic whereby the 'concerned citizens of the internet' get together to decide what is and isn't offensive is starting to bug me.
Were the Dukes of Hazzard racist?
Well, maybe the blonde lad was but I'll kill any man who says anything bad about Daisy.

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I'm happy to stand with the "concerned citizens of the internet" when they are suggesting it's a bad idea to fly a flag which stands for slavery. Doesn't bug me at all.

As for the Dukes of Hazard, I loved it when I was a kid. Had no idea about the flag or American history. I know now that the Jim Crow laws hadn't even been abolished when all of those actors were born. As I stated earlier, some places managed to keep aspects of them going well into the 70's, the same decade, I see, that Dukes of Hazard was born. A product of it's time. What people thought was fine then isn't fine now. That's progress. And the flag isn't ok just because ignorant people in the American South still use it. I see plenty of UVF flags on lampposts.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 15, 2017, 09:47:10 PM
Cork fans have been flying the Confederate flag since I first started watching Gaelic on television. Anyone who thinks Cork fans were endorsing white supremacy need to have a serious look at themselves. Plus, they can shove their 'offence' up their arse.

You'd be okay with them flying a Nazi flag then? It's red and white isn't it?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Mayo4Sam14 on August 15, 2017, 09:49:15 PM
I've never brought a flag to a game in my life so if they banned the whole lot of them it wouldn't bother me.
Just spare me the righteous indignation of Irish social media users who would no doubt be horrified to learn that the State flag of Mississippi still contains the confederate battle flag.

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Whats it got to do with Cork??
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Jinxy on August 15, 2017, 09:50:14 PM
Lads, it's the whole 'Southern Pride' & rebel thing.
That's where the connection originated and it actually makes perfect sense that some Cork fans would adopt the symbol back when it was considered relatively benign.
When I was growing up I would have associated that flag primarily with moonshine, fast cars and ridiculously hot women in tiny shorts.
It's only a matter of time before the flag disappears from mainstream american life, i.e. state buildings, flags etc. and I'd be quite happy if it never showed up at a GAA ground again, but demonising the individuals who have been bringing the flag with them for years is pointless and counter-productive.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Lamh Dhearg Alba on August 15, 2017, 09:55:27 PM
Lads, it's the whole 'Southern Pride' & rebel thing.
That's where the connection originated and it actually makes perfect sense that some Cork fans would adopt the symbol back when it was considered relatively benign.
When I was growing up I would have associated that flag primarily with moonshine, fast cars and ridiculously hot women in tiny shorts.
It's only a matter of time before the flag disappears from mainstream american life, i.e. state buildings, flags etc. and I'd be quite happy if it never showed up at a GAA ground again, but demonising the individuals who have been bringing the flag with them for years is pointless and counter-productive.

I'm not demonising anyone who has taken it to GAA games in the past. I know they weren't doing so to advocate white supremacy. But I really don't think they have any excuse now for not knowing what the flag means. As such, they shouldn't bring it to any more games.

Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: yellowcard on August 15, 2017, 09:57:54 PM
Why has this become an issue now all of a sudden anyway?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Lamh Dhearg Alba on August 15, 2017, 10:04:40 PM
Why has this become an issue now all of a sudden anyway?

Maybe something to do with the US president who tonight wouldn't give an answer when asked if he was against the confederancy. I'd suggest that the flag has long been unacceptable, but the apparent rise of those in the States who support what it stands for makes it even more important to speak out against it. Or if you are a Cork fan, to make sure you take a Cork flag to the next game.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Jinxy on August 15, 2017, 10:06:22 PM
It's also interesting that the flag issue is significantly less divisive amongst older african-americans, many of whom would have experienced the sharp end of segregation.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Boycey on August 15, 2017, 10:13:17 PM
If you saw a confederate flag at the next Cork game would it now be safe to assume the flag bearer to be a racist?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Lamh Dhearg Alba on August 15, 2017, 10:18:39 PM
It's also interesting that the flag issue is significantly less divisive amongst older african-americans, many of whom would have experienced the sharp end of segregation.

Probably in the same way that the generation born at the end of the 19th and start of 20th century didn't accept the subservience of their older relations, those who had actually experienced slavery. The younger ones experienced a different kind of slavery, and with a different attitude. That's why millions of them fled from the south.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Orior on August 15, 2017, 10:19:50 PM
Please desist from letting white supremacists claim something which they do not own. You are as bad as the unionists who see every tricolour as a terrorist symbol.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Orior on August 15, 2017, 10:22:32 PM
Cork fans have been flying the Confederate flag since I first started watching Gaelic on television. Anyone who thinks Cork fans were endorsing white supremacy need to have a serious look at themselves. Plus, they can shove their 'offence' up their arse.

You'd be okay with them flying a Nazi flag then? It's red and white isn't it?

What has the Nazis got to do with the Rebel county?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Lamh Dhearg Alba on August 15, 2017, 10:26:11 PM
Please desist from letting white supremacists claim something which they do not own. You are as bad as the unionists who see every tricolour as a terrorist symbol.

But in this case they do own it. Go and learn a bit about the flag. And your tricolour comparison is daft and just exposes your lack of understanding of this issue.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: BennyCake on August 15, 2017, 10:47:48 PM
If you saw a confederate flag at the next Cork game would it now be safe to assume the flag bearer to be a racist?

They might live abroad, with no wifi, with no knowledge of this
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Zulu on August 15, 2017, 10:57:40 PM
One thing you can be nearly 100% sure of is that any Cork fan with a confederate flag is not a racist. It's never been a sign of solidarity with American racists. In saying that, I think they should probably get rid of it as the world is a much smaller place and Ireland is more culturally diverse.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 15, 2017, 11:26:19 PM
There are plenty of other red and white flags in the world the stupid langers can wave. Leave the one with rascist history at home.

Where's the line though? The flag of the rising sun is red and white but are then codoning the atrocities of imperial Japan? Any man that's fit to tell me that the confederate flag is offensive then what about the flag of the rising sun?
It's very simple.

The flag of the rising sun does not represent imperial atrocities. It represents the nation of Japan, which is a very well regarded member of the international community of nations.

The confederate flag represented a shortlived, long defunct entity which was founded specifically to uphold slavery, and continues to be used by racist white supremacists as a symbol of their poisonous, backward ideology.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 15, 2017, 11:45:33 PM
This one isn't too hard lads surely? Times change - move with the times.

I've lived in America and would consider myself fairly informed on the nature of racial tensions there but being honest I never would have connected the confederate flag being flown at sports games with white supremacism - but now I do.

It was a bit of craic and no offense was/is intended but now it's over. It's no major blow to the ego to admit you were a bit ignorant about something when you come to know better finally.

To the 'pc gone mad' crowd, I think a look in the mirror is warranted.  What about the rangers fans flying orange order flags and the like at matches. Sure it's only a bit of craic, as it the Orange order itself. A nice day out and a bit of music, it's been going for hundreds of years and the world hasn't ended.

Hear hear.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2017, 12:09:50 AM
Arguments in favor of the flag seem to fall into the following categories:

1 - "It's only a bit of crack."
Rebuttal - That's what the Orangemen say.

2 - "Bloody PC brigade going out of their way to be offended."
Rebuttal - See my other thread. Attitudes that were once considered acceptable are no longer considered acceptable, and rightly bloody so. It wasn't so long ago that even people close to me would refer to black people as "darkies." You can't say that anymore, which is no bad thing. The Irish are always quick to take umbrage when people talk sh*t about us in derogatory terms, but we seem to be okay with dishing out the same kind of abuse to other ethnic groups. Some people need to take a long hard look at themselves.

3 - "It's not the actual confederate flag."
Rebuttal - You can split hairs all you like. We all know what the flag represents.

4 - "It just represents the word 'rebel' as in 'the rebel county.' No harm done."
Rebuttal - Cop yourself on. There are plenty of ways you could support your county without raising a banner that's inextricably linked to one of the most vile, evil, and hateful institutions or attitudes ever to exist. The southern confederacy made Apartheid South Africa look as advanced as Norway. That Irish people in this day and age would go out in public and openly display such a small-minded piece of evil symbolism is beneath contempt.

5 - What about the flag of Imperial Japan?
Rebuttal - We're not talking about the flag of Imperial Japan. We're talking about the confederate flag. The Stars and Bars. The symbol of white supremacy and the subjugation of human beings as if they were white men's property based on the colour of their skin. We're talking about a flag that came about because some people were so determined to preserve the evil institution of slavery that they were willing to go to war over it and kill their fellow Americans. We're talking about a flag of treason and racism that does a dis-service to the actual rebels from Cork who fought a just war of liberation against an oppressive foreign power. The actual rebels from Cork would be a bit horrified if they thought that the memory of their fight for Irish freedom from British domination would be associated with the fight to retain the right to hold slaves. Dear God!

Put that white trash flag in the bin where it belongs and wise up, you ignorant pack of petulant gobsh*tes.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: larryin89 on August 16, 2017, 12:16:19 AM
Such a pain in the whole listening to all the whinging these days. I think people in.general are getting fed up with it all. We are nearly told how to.act,.what to say and not say ,just fook.off already and.myob if ya dont like something . Tis the same in scotland now at Celtic games,.you cant sing this ,.you cant sing that ,.fookoff too and u p de ra.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 12:23:13 AM
Such a pain in the whole listening to all the whinging these days. I think people in.general are getting fed up with it all. We are nearly told how to.act,.what to say and not say ,just fook.off already and.myob if ya dont like something . Tis the same in scotland now at Celtic games,.you cant sing this ,.you cant sing that ,.fookoff too and u p de ra.
Yes, such a pain in the hole to be told not to fly a living, breathing symbol of racism.

Such oppression.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: armaghniac on August 16, 2017, 12:34:36 AM
The meaning of this flag has not changed since 1865. The idea that it is more unacceptable today than last year is nonsense.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: stew on August 16, 2017, 12:42:01 AM
Such a pain in the whole listening to all the whinging these days. I think people in.general are getting fed up with it all. We are nearly told how to.act,.what to say and not say ,just fook.off already and.myob if ya dont like something . Tis the same in scotland now at Celtic games,.you cant sing this ,.you cant sing that ,.fookoff too and u p de ra.
Yes, such a pain in the hole to be told not to fly a living, breathing symbol of racism.

Such oppression.

Siddles,  the confederate flag is not used in this country to promote racism, perpetuate racism or further any right wing cause, I have an idea, why don't you build Irelands first safe space and crawl up in there and thinkore ways to be offended! K?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 12:47:27 AM
Such a pain in the whole listening to all the whinging these days. I think people in.general are getting fed up with it all. We are nearly told how to.act,.what to say and not say ,just fook.off already and.myob if ya dont like something . Tis the same in scotland now at Celtic games,.you cant sing this ,.you cant sing that ,.fookoff too and u p de ra.
Yes, such a pain in the hole to be told not to fly a living, breathing symbol of racism.

Such oppression.

Siddles,  the confederate flag is not used in this country to promote racism, perpetuate racism or further any right wing cause, I have an idea, why don't you build Irelands first safe space and crawl up in there and thinkore ways to be offended! K?
Of course it isn't.

Just like the swastika isn't used to perpetuate anti-semitism.

Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 16, 2017, 12:49:33 AM
One thing you can be nearly 100% sure of is that any Cork fan with a confederate flag is not a racist. It's never been a sign of solidarity with American racists. In saying that, I think they should probably get rid of it as the world is a much smaller place and Ireland is more culturally diverse.
+1
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2017, 01:11:43 AM
Such a pain in the whole listening to all the whinging these days. I think people in.general are getting fed up with it all. We are nearly told how to.act,.what to say and not say ,just fook.off already and.myob if ya dont like something . Tis the same in scotland now at Celtic games,.you cant sing this ,.you cant sing that ,.fookoff too and u p de ra.

Play me the world's smallest violin. If you can't be told to put down a racist flag then you've got no business whining about anything.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2017, 01:12:28 AM
Siddles,  the confederate flag is not used in this country to promote racism, perpetuate racism or further any right wing cause, I have an idea, why don't you build Irelands first safe space and crawl up in there and thinkore ways to be offended! K?

Neither is the Nazi flag. Okay to fly it?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: whitey on August 16, 2017, 01:30:41 AM
I hope the Sligo supporters don't start waving Isis flags any time soon
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: armaghniac on August 16, 2017, 01:56:50 AM
Siddles,  the confederate flag is not used in this country to promote racism, perpetuate racism or further any right wing cause, I have an idea, why don't you build Irelands first safe space and crawl up in there and thinkore ways to be offended! K?

Neither is the Nazi flag. Okay to fly it?

It would suit Down.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: omaghjoe on August 16, 2017, 06:57:09 AM
The meaning of this flag has not changed since 1865. The idea that it is more unacceptable today than last year is nonsense.

I agree with this.. its nonsense that we need to move with the times, what are these times? Who sets these times, why do we need to move for them, just because...because...somebody says we need to move with the times it seems.

I used to be uncomfortable with them flying it, then I got used it and sort of understand why they were flying it, now am I supposed to be uncomfortable again because of a small minority of eejits in America have taken upon themselves to use it to promote  their pathetic cause?

The whole thing reminds me of the Brits "reclaiming" their flag after facists took it over in the 80s. Apparently people were afraid to fly it because  of the association with the National Front etc. Then they "reclaimed" or whatever and now you see the f**king thing stuck everywhere. Thing is to me its the Butchers Apron end of, I instinctively get offended (not to mention all the slavery, attrocides and genocide that were committed in its name) when I see it but I get over it mainly because it means something to decent people like my neighbours at home and actually doesn't cause me any harm at the end of the day.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 16, 2017, 08:08:17 AM
Cork fans have been flying the Confederate flag since I first started watching Gaelic on television. Anyone who thinks Cork fans were endorsing white supremacy need to have a serious look at themselves. Plus, they can shove their 'offence' up their arse.

You'd be okay with them flying a Nazi flag then? It's red and white isn't it?

Have they flown a nazi flag? Whataboutery at its finest here
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 16, 2017, 08:12:18 AM
Siddles,  the confederate flag is not used in this country to promote racism, perpetuate racism or further any right wing cause, I have an idea, why don't you build Irelands first safe space and crawl up in there and thinkore ways to be offended! K?

Neither is the Nazi flag. Okay to fly it?

You said in a previous post that the rebuttal for the imperial flag of Japan was that we are not talking about the imperial flag of Japan. In he same note we are not talking about a nazi flag so why bring that up?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on August 16, 2017, 09:12:11 AM
What is it with this place and flegs. Have we not got enough of them here to worry about. Those who have a problem with the confederate flag should have a problem then with the Tricolour. People can pick and choose what they want something to mean ie a flag of Southern pride or a flag of racism a flag to symbolise peace between Catholics and Protestants or a rag draped over some terrorists coffin. Or what about are beloved Rory parading around at every opportunity with that Ulster banner. Is he just proud to be from Northern Ireland or is he delighted with the one party junta that oppressed Northern Ireland for 50 yrs. Im guessing its the former. Now will you all fecking wise up.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Keyser soze on August 16, 2017, 09:49:30 AM
The levels of righteous indignation from people getting hot under the collar, taking themselves so seriously  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Orior on August 16, 2017, 09:54:25 AM
The meaning of this flag has not changed since 1865. The idea that it is more unacceptable today than last year is nonsense.

Correct. Is EamonMacha afraid that if he sees the rebel flag he might turn into a racist?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 16, 2017, 10:22:59 AM
What is it with this place and flegs. Have we not got enough of them here to worry about. Those who have a problem with the confederate flag should have a problem then with the Tricolour. People can pick and choose what they want something to mean ie a flag of Southern pride or a flag of racism a flag to symbolise peace between Catholics and Protestants or a rag draped over some terrorists coffin. Or what about are beloved Rory parading around at every opportunity with that Ulster banner. Is he just proud to be from Northern Ireland or is he delighted with the one party junta that oppressed Northern Ireland for 50 yrs. Im guessing its the former. Now will you all fecking wise up.
Ya know what? You have a way with words. You should post more often. ;D
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: AZOffaly on August 16, 2017, 10:34:34 AM
I don't think anybody seriously thinks there are racial supremacy motives behind the Cork fans flying the flag. There was obviously a convenient hook back in the 80s or whenever they started flying it. The colour, the South, the Rebels. It's not surprising someone made the connection and it became a 'thing'.

Back in those days, pre-internet and pre-easy access to history, the American Civil War and the South in General was a much more noble thing. Hollywood gave us Gone With the Wind and numerous other movies that portrayed a brave struggle between an overmatched rebel force and a superior Northern Army. It showed us the victories of Lee, Jackson and Grant and the only difference in how they were portrayed was the South was slightly more ragamuffin, and had cooler accents, and seemed a lot more 'gentlemanly'. In those movies the Slavery angle was very soft soap. Other movies who were harder on slavery didn't really focus on the CSA angle, it was more against individual slave owners.

Slavery was portrayed as BAD, but the Civil War was portrayed as a familial squabble, with brave men on both sides.

TV gave us Dukes of Hazzard and all that fun, while general Americana gave us pickup trucks with Confederate Flags, Country Music singing about the South and other benign, even admirable views of the South.

That being the public portrayal, I think it is understandable where it came from. As I said in the other thread, I whistle the old song Dixie quite regularly when I'm walking or whatever. I don't in any way associate it with slavery, even though of course it is.

Nowadays, because of what that flag has come to mean in modern times, and because of the inherent issues with regard to slavery in the CSA, the Cork lads should stop flying it, because it is the right thing to do. I don't believe they are racists, or white supremacists, (although they are undoubtedly Cork Supremacists) but because of what the rest of the world now sees that flag as, they don't want to be associated with it. And if they do, then that sends a much more damaging signal.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on August 16, 2017, 10:38:50 AM
What is it with this place and flegs. Have we not got enough of them here to worry about. Those who have a problem with the confederate flag should have a problem then with the Tricolour. People can pick and choose what they want something to mean ie a flag of Southern pride or a flag of racism a flag to symbolise peace between Catholics and Protestants or a rag draped over some terrorists coffin. Or what about are beloved Rory parading around at every opportunity with that Ulster banner. Is he just proud to be from Northern Ireland or is he delighted with the one party junta that oppressed Northern Ireland for 50 yrs. Im guessing its the former. Now will you all fecking wise up.
Ya know what? You have a way with words. You should post more often. ;D

Cheers and Ill rant again if people continue to talk shite. Dont see the point of flying the flag myself but understand its a bit of craic. Most flags and symbols are going to be controversial to someone somewhere so whats the solution ban the lot of them? Thought from this part of the world we would have enough crappy flags already to get wound up about.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2017, 12:25:12 PM
Sligo fans should use the ISIS flag. Kildare the Taliban one. Why reinvent the wheel when there are perfectly good designs already out there? Especially when sporting them is not an endorsement of their original symbolism.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: AZOffaly on August 16, 2017, 12:35:14 PM
Surely Kildare should use the Klan flag? They already wear white, and even start with K. The KKKK.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 16, 2017, 12:56:34 PM
Surely Kildare should use the Klan flag? They already wear white, and even start with K. The KKKK.
Dear Frankie,
I have a rifle, a fairly high-powered yoke that I go target shooting with. (If you follow me.)
Should I give up this pastime because this type of gun has been used to kill people and by using it for innocent purposes I am giving offence to somebody else.?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sligoman2 on August 16, 2017, 01:10:40 PM
Sligo fans should use the ISIS flag. Kildare the Taliban one. Why reinvent the wheel when there are perfectly good designs already out there? Especially when sporting them is not an endorsement of their original symbolism.

J70, please remove this post.  I'm not easily offended but this is upsetting to say the least.

The simple and correct answer is to not fly a confederate or any other flag at a match that has dark undertones.  However I won't be getting rid of my black and white checker flag because racing cars burn fossil fuels...
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 01:10:56 PM
The levels of righteous indignation from people getting hot under the collar, taking themselves so seriously  ;D ;D ;D
Imagine taking racism and the issue of racist flags so seriously.  ;D

Mental, isn't it?

I mean, you can't even call somebody a "black ****" now and not have somebody object.

I mean, it's just a bit of craic.

Personally I think Sligo supporters should dress up in blackface.

That'll teach 'em.

Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2017, 01:20:21 PM
Sligo fans should use the ISIS flag. Kildare the Taliban one. Why reinvent the wheel when there are perfectly good designs already out there? Especially when sporting them is not an endorsement of their original symbolism.

J70, please remove this post.  I'm not easily offended but this is upsetting to say the least.

The simple and correct answer is to not fly a confederate or any other flag at a match that has dark undertones.  However I won't be getting rid of my black and white checker flag because racing cars burn fossil fuels...

Sorry, but no.

Flags have meaning.

And we are talking about specific symbols of oppression and terrorism and bigotry. Not checkerboard patterns with multiple mundane applications.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2017, 01:30:42 PM
Surely Kildare should use the Klan flag? They already wear white, and even start with K. The KKKK.
Dear Frankie,
I have a rifle, a fairly high-powered yoke that I go target shooting with. (If you follow me.)
Should I give up this pastime because this type of gun has been used to kill people and by using it for innocent purposes I am giving offence to somebody else.?

Why stop your slippery slope argument there?

Why not a kitchen knife?

Or a car?

How about a plane?

They're all tools which have and can be used to kill.

Except, all those things were not designed to symbolize something or convey a specific meaning.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 01:53:48 PM
I remember when Ron Atkinson called Marcel Desailly a "n*****", Jimmy Hill came out with the following.

"In that context, you wouldn't think that words like n***** were particularly insulting: it would be funny. Without meaning to insult any black men, it's us having fun ... I mean, n***** is black - so we have jokes where we call them n****** because they're black. Why should that be any more of an offence than someone calling me chinny?"

It's amazing that so many people appear to have a very similar attitude to Jimmy Hill regarding racist symbolism.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 16, 2017, 02:01:01 PM
Ach look, from, say, a Kerry perspective, those amadáin who still flutter the Confederate Flag might well inhabit a cave somewhere in deepest Cork, oblivious to the wider-world connotations, like, cut off from all forms of normal  civilisation. So Jacky happened to mention in passing, in any case :P ;)
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 16, 2017, 02:03:48 PM
Surely Kildare should use the Klan flag? They already wear white, and even start with K. The KKKK.
Dear Frankie,
I have a rifle, a fairly high-powered yoke that I go target shooting with. (If you follow me.)
Should I give up this pastime because this type of gun has been used to kill people and by using it for innocent purposes I am giving offence to somebody else.?

Why stop your slippery slope argument there?

Why not a kitchen knife?

Or a car?

How about a plane?

They're all tools which have and can be used to kill.

Except, all those things were not designed to symbolize something or convey a specific meaning.
Hah? Only "slippery slope?"
I don't do sarcasm very well I'm afraid. I'd stick to the day job- if I had a day job so I'll have to make it up as I go along..
I was not being serious, in case you haven't noticed. My analogy was pure daft as it was meant to be.
It belongs to the same concept of logic as "You'd be okay with them flying a Nazi flag then? It's red and white isn't it,?" which came courtesy of Eamonn a few posts up the page.
I mean if that line of argument is accepted by you, why should you get upset over what I wrote?
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, isn't it?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2017, 02:12:12 PM
Surely Kildare should use the Klan flag? They already wear white, and even start with K. The KKKK.
Dear Frankie,
I have a rifle, a fairly high-powered yoke that I go target shooting with. (If you follow me.)
Should I give up this pastime because this type of gun has been used to kill people and by using it for innocent purposes I am giving offence to somebody else.?

Why stop your slippery slope argument there?

Why not a kitchen knife?

Or a car?

How about a plane?

They're all tools which have and can be used to kill.

Except, all those things were not designed to symbolize something or convey a specific meaning.
Hah? Only "slippery slope?"
I don't do sarcasm very well I'm afraid. I'd stick to the day job- if I had a day job so I'll have to make it up as I go along..
I was not being serious, in case you haven't noticed. My analogy was pure daft as it was meant to be.
It belongs to the same concept of logic as "You'd be okay with them flying a Nazi flag then? It's red and white isn't it,?" which came courtesy of Eamonn a few posts up the page.
I mean if that line of argument is accepted by you, why should you get upset over what I wrote?
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, isn't it?

But Eamonn's substitution of the Nazi flag for the confederate one is valid. If one flag can be used amidst claims of non-endorsement of its original repugnant symbolism, then why not another?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: AZOffaly on August 16, 2017, 02:14:52 PM
I'm reluctant to get into this, but The Nazi flag has not even the remotest connection with Cork. The confederate flag is Red, but is also from the South, and the protagonists were called the Rebels. The Nazi flag is a straw man.

That said, they use the Chinese Flag, Che Quevera Flags and others, so who knows.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Keyser soze on August 16, 2017, 02:30:37 PM
The levels of righteous indignation from people getting hot under the collar, taking themselves so seriously  ;D ;D ;D
Imagine taking racism and the issue of racist flags so seriously.  ;D

Mental, isn't it?

I mean, you can't even call somebody a "black ****" now and not have somebody object.

I mean, it's just a bit of craic.

Personally I think Sligo supporters should dress up in blackface.

That'll teach 'em.

Now you are being foolish.

In Ireland the Union flag would be seen as a symbol of oppression and occupation by a foreign country and therefore many would rightfully object to it being flown and flouted as it often blatantly is.

Someone at a football match in Denver or Doha flying the same flag because it has their team colours would not be seen as being provocative though.

Your examples equating it to blatant racist behaviour serve only to highlight the paucity of your argument.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2017, 02:33:55 PM
I'm reluctant to get into this, but The Nazi flag has not even the remotest connection with Cork. The confederate flag is Red, but is also from the South, and the protagonists were called the Rebels. The Nazi flag is a straw man.

That said, they use the Chinese Flag, Che Quevera Flags and others, so who knows.

The "south" and "rebels" are about as thin a justification for the use of a racist flag as one could possibly think up.

The NAZIs started out as a rebel outfit who tried to overthrow the government by force before Hitler decided propaganda and the ballet box and behind the scenes murder and intimidation was the way to go. Had they not succeeded and were consigned to history as a failed (before taking power), defeated outfit like the Confederacy, would that justify Cork using their flag? Is there something romantic about the confederacy that isn't there with the NAZIs because they caused a world conflict and murdered millions, instead of starting a war costing hundreds of thousands of lives in an effort to preserve the enslavement of an entire race? Is it an issue of degree?

Let's say Apartheid South Africa had used a red flag? They were a "southern" outfit. Would THAT have been ok to use?

All these flags symbolize similar world views. Splitting hairs over "rebel" and "south" and so on is not a strong argument in favour of their use. Neither is "well, we use the Confederate flag but at least we are not using the swastika!"
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: AZOffaly on August 16, 2017, 02:43:50 PM
Are you being deliberately argumentative or obtuse? I'm telling you a couple of potential reasons why Cork would have identified with the Rebel South, back when they started flying that flag. If you can't at least acknowledge that, then you are deluded.

However, now it is obviously inappropriate, and they should stop as the flag itself has much more obvious connotations with slavery and alt-right nutcases.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 02:44:44 PM
The levels of righteous indignation from people getting hot under the collar, taking themselves so seriously  ;D ;D ;D
Imagine taking racism and the issue of racist flags so seriously.  ;D

Mental, isn't it?

I mean, you can't even call somebody a "black ****" now and not have somebody object.

I mean, it's just a bit of craic.

Personally I think Sligo supporters should dress up in blackface.

That'll teach 'em.

Now you are being foolish.

In Ireland the Union flag would be seen as a symbol of oppression and occupation by a foreign country and therefore many would rightfully object to it being flown and flouted as it often blatantly is.

Someone at a football match in Denver or Doha flying the same flag because it has their team colours would not be seen as being provocative though.

Your examples equating it to blatant racist behaviour serve only to highlight the paucity of your argument.

The confederate flag is an unequivocal symbol of racism and slavery, just as the Nazi flag is an unequivocal symbol of anti-semitism, racism and genocide.

It doesn't matter where they are flown, the symbolism is the same.

The flag of the United Kingdom is the current flag of an internationally recognised nation state. It is not a flag that symbolises oppression or slavery, much as you might not like it.

The same goes for the Irish tricolour.

This is all terribly easy stuff to understand, yet you're one of a surprisingly high number of posters who can't grasp such.





Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2017, 02:53:44 PM
Are you being deliberately argumentative or obtuse? I'm telling you a couple of potential reasons why Cork would have identified with the Rebel South, back when they started flying that flag. If you can't at least acknowledge that, then you are deluded.

However, now it is obviously inappropriate, and they should stop as the flag itself has much more obvious connotations with slavery and alt-right nutcases.

Those "reasons" were no more valid twenty years ago than they are now.

I could see some foolish young people not realizing the inappropriateness of those flags (I was a young moron once too and I liked the Dukes of Hazard as a kid) but surely it was incumbent on the GAA to point out their folly?

But, you have to start from where you're at, and hopefully the use of this flag will end forthwith.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: AZOffaly on August 16, 2017, 02:55:31 PM
Agreed.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 16, 2017, 03:01:15 PM
Don't anyone quote the colours involved in any flag FFS -- they're totally incidental to the pattern. Talk about straw men!
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: AZOffaly on August 16, 2017, 03:04:02 PM
Don't anyone quote the colours involved in any flag FFS -- they're totally incidental to the pattern. Talk about straw men!

I don't understand your point FoSB. Do you think the colours are not a factor in why the Cork lads fly it?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2017, 03:10:56 PM
Don't anyone quote the colours involved in any flag FFS -- they're totally incidental to the pattern. Talk about straw men!

The Irish tricolour??
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 16, 2017, 03:12:43 PM
Don't anyone quote the colours involved in any flag FFS -- they're totally incidental to the pattern. Talk about straw men!

I don't understand your point FoSB. Do you think the colours are not a factor in why the Cork lads fly it?

Sorry AZ, nothing directed at any personal contributions, but if we excuse flags in whole or in part because of the colours deployed therein then we're back in National School, though that might be an excuse for the latest clutch of Langers! ;)
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Keyser soze on August 16, 2017, 03:12:54 PM
The levels of righteous indignation from people getting hot under the collar, taking themselves so seriously  ;D ;D ;D
Imagine taking racism and the issue of racist flags so seriously.  ;D

Mental, isn't it?

I mean, you can't even call somebody a "black ****" now and not have somebody object.

I mean, it's just a bit of craic.

Personally I think Sligo supporters should dress up in blackface.

That'll teach 'em.

Now you are being foolish.

In Ireland the Union flag would be seen as a symbol of oppression and occupation by a foreign country and therefore many would rightfully object to it being flown and flouted as it often blatantly is.

Someone at a football match in Denver or Doha flying the same flag because it has their team colours would not be seen as being provocative though.

Your examples equating it to blatant racist behaviour serve only to highlight the paucity of your argument.

The confederate flag is an unequivocal symbol of racism and slavery, just as the Nazi flag is an unequivocal symbol of anti-semitism, racism and genocide.

It doesn't matter where they are flown, the symbolism is the same.

The flag of the United Kingdom is the current flag of an internationally recognised nation state. It is not a flag that symbolises oppression or slavery, much as you might not like it.

The same goes for the Irish tricolour.

This is all terribly easy stuff to understand, yet you're one of a surprisingly high number of posters who can't grasp such.

And you are one of a large number of posters who have jumped on a bandwagon within the last few days, having seen that flag flying at Cork matches for years without demur, and making it out now to be a racist act when it never crossed your tiny mind at any point previously about whether it should be flown or not flown in CP. 

If you and your fellow travellers who are so moralistic about it where was your moral outrage before?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 16, 2017, 03:14:05 PM
Don't anyone quote the colours involved in any flag FFS -- they're totally incidental to the pattern. Talk about straw men!

The Irish tricolour??

Exactly, my primary case in point ( though the Butcher's Apron had a supporting role).
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 16, 2017, 03:14:26 PM
I'm reluctant to get into this, but The Nazi flag has not even the remotest connection with Cork. The confederate flag is Red, but is also from the South, and the protagonists were called the Rebels. The Nazi flag is a straw man.

That said, they use the Chinese Flag, Che Quevera Flags and others, so who knows.

The "south" and "rebels" are about as thin a justification for the use of a racist flag as one could possibly think up.

The NAZIs started out as a rebel outfit who tried to overthrow the government by force before Hitler decided propaganda and the ballet box and behind the scenes murder and intimidation was the way to go. Had they not succeeded and were consigned to history as a failed (before taking power), defeated outfit like the Confederacy, would that justify Cork using their flag? Is there something romantic about the confederacy that isn't there with the NAZIs because they caused a world conflict and murdered millions, instead of starting a war costing hundreds of thousands of lives in an effort to preserve the enslavement of an entire race? Is it an issue of degree?

Let's say Apartheid South Africa had used a red flag? They were a "southern" outfit. Would THAT have been ok to use?

All these flags symbolize similar world views. Splitting hairs over "rebel" and "south" and so on is not a strong argument in favour of their use. Neither is "well, we use the Confederate flag but at least we are not using the swastika!"

They're not flying a nazi flag. Apartheid South Africa didn't have a red flag. Cut out the whatabouttery will ye
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 16, 2017, 03:17:27 PM
And can we stop calling it the confederate flag, because it isn't the confederate flag
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2017, 03:18:23 PM
I'm reluctant to get into this, but The Nazi flag has not even the remotest connection with Cork. The confederate flag is Red, but is also from the South, and the protagonists were called the Rebels. The Nazi flag is a straw man.

That said, they use the Chinese Flag, Che Quevera Flags and others, so who knows.

The "south" and "rebels" are about as thin a justification for the use of a racist flag as one could possibly think up.

The NAZIs started out as a rebel outfit who tried to overthrow the government by force before Hitler decided propaganda and the ballet box and behind the scenes murder and intimidation was the way to go. Had they not succeeded and were consigned to history as a failed (before taking power), defeated outfit like the Confederacy, would that justify Cork using their flag? Is there something romantic about the confederacy that isn't there with the NAZIs because they caused a world conflict and murdered millions, instead of starting a war costing hundreds of thousands of lives in an effort to preserve the enslavement of an entire race? Is it an issue of degree?

Let's say Apartheid South Africa had used a red flag? They were a "southern" outfit. Would THAT have been ok to use?

All these flags symbolize similar world views. Splitting hairs over "rebel" and "south" and so on is not a strong argument in favour of their use. Neither is "well, we use the Confederate flag but at least we are not using the swastika!"

They're not flying a nazi flag. Apartheid South Africa didn't have a red flag. Cut out the whatabouttery will ye

Talk about missing the point!
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: AZOffaly on August 16, 2017, 03:20:31 PM
I'm not excusing anything. I was only giving reasons why it was thought suitable in the first place :) Red, Rebel, South. In the 80s that would have made sense :)
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2017, 03:21:03 PM
And can we stop calling it the confederate flag, because it isn't the confederate flag

Er... no, I for one don't plan to stop calling it that.

Wheel out the Stars and Bars and the battle flag stuff all you want, as if that changes anything.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 16, 2017, 03:25:35 PM
The levels of righteous indignation from people getting hot under the collar, taking themselves so seriously  ;D ;D ;D
Imagine taking racism and the issue of racist flags so seriously.  ;D

Mental, isn't it?

I mean, you can't even call somebody a "black ****" now and not have somebody object.

I mean, it's just a bit of craic.

Personally I think Sligo supporters should dress up in blackface.

That'll teach 'em.

Now you are being foolish.

In Ireland the Union flag would be seen as a symbol of oppression and occupation by a foreign country and therefore many would rightfully object to it being flown and flouted as it often blatantly is.

Someone at a football match in Denver or Doha flying the same flag because it has their team colours would not be seen as being provocative though.

Your examples equating it to blatant racist behaviour serve only to highlight the paucity of your argument.

The confederate flag is an unequivocal symbol of racism and slavery, just as the Nazi flag is an unequivocal symbol of anti-semitism, racism and genocide.

It doesn't matter where they are flown, the symbolism is the same.

The flag of the United Kingdom is the current flag of an internationally recognised nation state. It is not a flag that symbolises oppression or slavery, much as you might not like it.

The same goes for the Irish tricolour.

This is all terribly easy stuff to understand, yet you're one of a surprisingly high number of posters who can't grasp such.

And you are one of a large number of posters who have jumped on a bandwagon within the last few days, having seen that flag flying at Cork matches for years without demur, and making it out now to be a racist act when it never crossed your tiny mind at any point previously about whether it should be flown or not flown in CP. 

If you and your fellow travellers who are so moralistic about it where was your moral outrage before?
There have been complaints about the confederate flag flying at Cork matches since at least the year 2000.

People like you believe ignorance is acceptable.

Ignorance is not acceptable in this day and age and neither is it any longer believable.

You appear to be arguing that if something was once considered acceptable, that it should always be so.

Societies once considered it acceptable to call a black person a "n*****".

Presumably, going by the logic of your "point" about the confederate flag, you believe this should still be the case.

Would you say "it was acceptable in the 1940s, where was your moral outrage then?"

Presumably you would.



Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 16, 2017, 03:26:54 PM
And can we stop calling it the confederate flag, because it isn't the confederate flag

Er... no, I for one don't plan to stop calling it that.

Wheel out the Stars and Bars and the battle flag stuff all you want, as if that changes anything.

It ain't the confederate flag is it. And no. I didn't miss the point. You're trying to introduce what ifs into the equation. What if they fly a nazi flag. They don't. What if South Africa flag during apartheid was red and they flew that. It wasn't and they don't. If they do fly a nazi flag then by all means trash them for it
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: AZOffaly on August 16, 2017, 03:35:36 PM
tonto in fairness, the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia is commonly referred to as the Confederate Flag now.  Perhaps more accurate to say a flag 'of the confederacy'. But to the people who fly it, and who put it on bumper stickers, it *is* the CSA they are paying homage to.

First official flag of the Confederacy

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Second Flag

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Third Flag

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The Confederate Battle Flag, originally the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. This is the flag that was incorporated into the 2nd and 3rd flags.

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Also, unofficially, the flag of Garryowen Rugby club, I mean, the Bonnie Blue Flag

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Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2017, 03:39:32 PM
And can we stop calling it the confederate flag, because it isn't the confederate flag

Er... no, I for one don't plan to stop calling it that.

Wheel out the Stars and Bars and the battle flag stuff all you want, as if that changes anything.

It ain't the confederate flag is it. And no. I didn't miss the point. You're trying to introduce what ifs into the equation. What if they fly a nazi flag. They don't. What if South Africa flag during apartheid was red and they flew that. It wasn't and they don't. If they do fly a nazi flag then by all means trash them for it

It was a flag used by the Confederate army and is now THE symbol of the confederacy and is used by white supremacists and southern states as such. When one talks about the Confederate flag, the battle flag is the one that is understood to be the object to which one is referring. If you want to be a pedant, knock yourself out, but it in no way helps whatever point it is you're trying to make.

And the point about the NAZI or apartheid flags is that they symbolize the same kind of thing as the Confederate flag and that the Confederate flag is in no way more respectable than they are.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 16, 2017, 04:13:03 PM
And can we stop calling it the confederate flag, because it isn't the confederate flag

Er... no, I for one don't plan to stop calling it that.

Wheel out the Stars and Bars and the battle flag stuff all you want, as if that changes anything.

It ain't the confederate flag is it. And no. I didn't miss the point. You're trying to introduce what ifs into the equation. What if they fly a nazi flag. They don't. What if South Africa flag during apartheid was red and they flew that. It wasn't and they don't. If they do fly a nazi flag then by all means trash them for it

It was a flag used by the Confederate army and is now THE symbol of the confederacy and is used by white supremacists and southern states as such. When one talks about the Confederate flag, the battle flag is the one that is understood to be the object to which one is referring. If you want to be a pedant, knock yourself out, but it in no way helps whatever point it is you're trying to make.

And the point about the NAZI or apartheid flags is that they symbolize the same kind of thing as the Confederate flag and that the Confederate flag is in no way more respectable than they are.

I haven't made any point on this argument one way or the other. Perhaps I am being pedantic but sure why not.
Yes they symbolise the same kind of things but why bring them into the argument meant and say what if they were flying them. They aren't. It's a moot point. IMO.
I'm like you. Loved dukes of hazard. I had a tshirt that had that flag on it when I was younger too. Not anymore though.
Another point is why are people only now making such an issue of it? Or has there been as big a deal made if it before? I can remember seeing them flyers my it for years but can't remember a deal being made if it in the past. Mthey also have a che Guevara flag. Has anyone any problems with that?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: BennyCake on August 16, 2017, 04:19:45 PM
I suppose Antrim fans can no longer bring the Vatican flag to matches, in case it offends Protestant Antrim fans.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Orior on August 16, 2017, 04:20:41 PM
So what is the worst that can happen when Cork fans fly the confederate flag?

1) Gaelic supporters rush out and sign up to white supremacy
2) White supremacists is the southern states of USA read it an an endorsement and proceed with gay abandon

In my opinion (which I rate very highly) both the above scenarios are highly unlikely. Unless of course you're someone who takes offence at anything remotely related to a march of racist thugs.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2017, 04:21:16 PM
The Dylan Roof massacre, along with Trump, brought the Confederate symbols and statues issue to a head, but it's been an issue for years.

Like anything involving public opinion and support, there is always a turning point that accelerates the change, where you reach a point of critical mass.

I'm sure like everything these days, social media and the internet have been significant too.

What might have been local, disconnected events or issues now receive wide publicity and spread.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2017, 05:05:52 PM
Siddles,  the confederate flag is not used in this country to promote racism, perpetuate racism or further any right wing cause, I have an idea, why don't you build Irelands first safe space and crawl up in there and thinkore ways to be offended! K?

Neither is the Nazi flag. Okay to fly it?

You said in a previous post that the rebuttal for the imperial flag of Japan was that we are not talking about the imperial flag of Japan. In he same note we are not talking about a nazi flag so why bring that up?

Okay then, let's talk about the flag of Imperial Japan. I wouldn't recommend flying that either, I'd rather fly the current Japanese flag.

There, happy now?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2017, 05:08:57 PM
What is it with this place and flegs. Have we not got enough of them here to worry about. Those who have a problem with the confederate flag should have a problem then with the Tricolour. People can pick and choose what they want something to mean ie a flag of Southern pride or a flag of racism a flag to symbolise peace between Catholics and Protestants or a rag draped over some terrorists coffin. Or what about are beloved Rory parading around at every opportunity with that Ulster banner. Is he just proud to be from Northern Ireland or is he delighted with the one party junta that oppressed Northern Ireland for 50 yrs. Im guessing its the former. Now will you all fecking wise up.

Jesus Christ. The Irish national flag equated to the flag of southern racist plantation owners. I've heard it all now.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2017, 05:12:08 PM
And can we stop calling it the confederate flag, because it isn't the confederate flag

There goes the hair-splitting again.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Lamh Dhearg Alba on August 16, 2017, 05:13:59 PM
What is it with this place and flegs. Have we not got enough of them here to worry about. Those who have a problem with the confederate flag should have a problem then with the Tricolour. People can pick and choose what they want something to mean ie a flag of Southern pride or a flag of racism a flag to symbolise peace between Catholics and Protestants or a rag draped over some terrorists coffin. Or what about are beloved Rory parading around at every opportunity with that Ulster banner. Is he just proud to be from Northern Ireland or is he delighted with the one party junta that oppressed Northern Ireland for 50 yrs. Im guessing its the former. Now will you all fecking wise up.

Again, the tricolour point is a particularly poor one. Those who designed it clearly believed, naively perhaps, that it was a flag which could represent different traditions and peace between them. The flag we are discussing here was never meant to mean that, it represents one community dominating another. It doesn't represent southern pride either and anybody who is proud of that part of their history is on very dodgy ground.

To me this is a simple enough matter. I'd suggest that those who think the flag is fine and all a bit of craic don't know or don't understand the history and connotations of it, or don't want/can't be bothered confronting any of that. Or they are genuine racists.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 16, 2017, 05:52:51 PM
What is it with this place and flegs. Have we not got enough of them here to worry about. Those who have a problem with the confederate flag should have a problem then with the Tricolour. People can pick and choose what they want something to mean ie a flag of Southern pride or a flag of racism a flag to symbolise peace between Catholics and Protestants or a rag draped over some terrorists coffin. Or what about are beloved Rory parading around at every opportunity with that Ulster banner. Is he just proud to be from Northern Ireland or is he delighted with the one party junta that oppressed Northern Ireland for 50 yrs. Im guessing its the former. Now will you all fecking wise up.

Jesus Christ. The Irish national flag equated to the flag of southern racist plantation owners. I've heard it all now.
I don't want to get into a row with anyone, Eamonn but I can't help wondering what might happen if you draped the tricolour over your shoulders and marched up the Sandy Row?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2017, 07:31:08 PM

I don't want to get into a row with anyone, Eamonn but I can't help wondering what might happen if you draped the tricolour over your shoulders and marched up the Sandy Row?

I'd prolly get bate. Why do you ask?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: dublin7 on August 16, 2017, 07:39:15 PM

I don't want to get into a row with anyone, Eamonn but I can't help wondering what might happen if you draped the tricolour over your shoulders and marched up the Sandy Row?

I'd prolly get bate. Why do you ask?

During the Charlotte protests there was a prominent picture of a confederate flag beside a flag with a swastika. Once you are even associated with the Nazis I would think you've lost the argument.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Lar Naparka on August 16, 2017, 07:48:47 PM

I don't want to get into a row with anyone, Eamonn but I can't help wondering what might happen if you draped the tricolour over your shoulders and marched up the Sandy Row?

I'd prolly get bate. Why do you ask?
Well, you wrote this: "Again, the tricolour point is a particularly poor one. Those who designed it clearly believed, naively perhaps, that it was a flag which could represent different traditions and peace between them."
It was designed with the best intentions to acknowledge both traditions. But it's taken to represent something else entirely by our Loyalist brethern.
A Nationalist and a Loyalist can both look at the same flag and they will draw very different conclusions from doing so.
Same flag- different opinions. You see the Stars and Bars as a symbol of racism and intolerance and many Corkonians would feel insulted if they were regarded as racists because they  associate it with colour, excitement, a great day out and a feed of Murphy's or Beamish afterwards.                   
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Gmac on August 16, 2017, 07:56:40 PM
Ken burns did an exceptional documentary series  on the civil war in 1990 and went into great detail on the average soldier on each side , don't know if it would be tolerated today or the opinions of a Shelby foote or other contributors .
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2017, 08:31:38 PM
Ken burns did an exceptional documentary series  on the civil war in 1990 and went into great detail on the average soldier on each side , don't know if it would be tolerated today or the opinions of a Shelby foote or other contributors .

Why wouldn't it be tolerated? Burns goes into great depth about the issues. Rendering judgement doesn't preclude giving an account of what life was like for the participants.

Ironically, there are plenty of comments on the likes of Amazon calling that and other series by Burns and his brother liberal garbage.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 16, 2017, 08:38:02 PM
And can we stop calling it the confederate flag, because it isn't the confederate flag

There goes the hair-splitting again.

I know it's splitting hairs. Just something. I learned today and found it interesting. Doesn't change the meaning or history of the flag
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2017, 08:38:18 PM

I don't want to get into a row with anyone, Eamonn but I can't help wondering what might happen if you draped the tricolour over your shoulders and marched up the Sandy Row?

I'd prolly get bate. Why do you ask?
Well, you wrote this: "Again, the tricolour point is a particularly poor one. Those who designed it clearly believed, naively perhaps, that it was a flag which could represent different traditions and peace between them."

Don't seem to remember ever writing any such thing. But go on...

Quote
It was designed with the best intentions to acknowledge both traditions. But it's taken to represent something else entirely by our Loyalist brethern.
A Nationalist and a Loyalist can both look at the same flag and they will draw very different conclusions from doing so.
Same flag- different opinions. You see the Stars and Bars as a symbol of racism and intolerance and many Corkonians would feel insulted if they were regarded as racists because they  associate it with colour, excitement, a great day out and a feed of Murphy's or Beamish afterwards.                 

If I walked through Sandy Row draped in a rainbow flag I'd probably get bate too. Doesn't mean the rainbow flag is anything sinister. What a crowd of loyalist knuckleheads think is irrelevant. The confederate flag is rightly seen as repugnant by normal people and by wider society. There's no comparison.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 16, 2017, 08:40:28 PM
Another point is why are people only now making such an issue of it?

Same reason it's increasingly unacceptable to use racist epithets.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 16, 2017, 08:45:47 PM
Another point is why are people only now making such an issue of it?

Same reason it's increasingly unacceptable to use racist epithets.

People have always made issues of this though
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Orior on August 16, 2017, 09:20:46 PM
Another point is why are people only now making such an issue of it?

Same reason it's increasingly unacceptable to use racist epithets.

People have always made issues of this though

Nonsense.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 16, 2017, 09:45:49 PM
Another point is why are people only now making such an issue of it?

Same reason it's increasingly unacceptable to use racist epithets.

People have always made issues of this though

Nonsense.

What's nonsense
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2017, 12:03:06 AM
Another point is why are people only now making such an issue of it?

Same reason it's increasingly unacceptable to use racist epithets.

People have always made issues of this though

And people have always made issues about the confederate flag. They even fought a war about it at one point.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2017, 01:28:11 AM
As I said earlier, the Dylan Roof massacre really threw the Civil War symbolism issue back onto the stage. SC removed the confederate flag from its state houses in the aftermath. One state (Mississippi, if I recall correctly, still incorporates the battle flag into its state flag!). Then throw in Trump and his campaign and the growing profile of the "alt right", along with social media and publicity, and you get the critical mass effect.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 17, 2017, 05:56:23 AM
Another point is why are people only now making such an issue of it?

Same reason it's increasingly unacceptable to use racist epithets.

People have always made issues of this though

And people have always made issues about the confederate flag. They even fought a war about it at one point.
Seriously, tell me when people have made issues about cork fans flying that flag in the past. I would like to know
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 17, 2017, 06:44:37 AM
This has been enlightening for me as I've had to do some self learning. Interesting video here. Not sure how old it is but no more than a couple years anyway.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H1VnD-PRVh8
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Orior on August 17, 2017, 10:31:01 AM
In the summer of a very long time ago, I worked in Wildwood NJ on the boardwalk for two months. During that time I wore a teeshirt with a confederate flag on it. Never had a problem with it.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: BennyCake on August 17, 2017, 10:34:14 AM
Another point is why are people only now making such an issue of it?

Same reason it's increasingly unacceptable to use racist epithets.

People have always made issues of this though

And people have always made issues about the confederate flag. They even fought a war about it at one point.
Seriously, tell me when people have made issues about cork fans flying that flag in the past. I would like to know

Cork fans have been flying that flag, along with Japan, and others since at least 88/89 when the footballers came out of Kerry's shadow.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on August 17, 2017, 12:10:23 PM
Someone flying a Union flag at England/Norn Iron match - is that not offensive to atheists, given the links to the saints and christianity?

If someone brought a rainbow flag to Croke Park, is that not offensive to those opposed to gay rights/marriage?

I hope they don't find out about Anthony Rainbow's jersey.

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Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Kurtz on August 17, 2017, 01:05:27 PM
Someone flying a Union flag at England/Norn Iron match - is that not offensive to atheists, given the links to the saints and christianity?

If someone brought a rainbow flag to Croke Park, is that not offensive to those opposed to gay rights/marriage?

I hope they don't find out about Anthony Rainbow's jersey.

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Or the fact, civil rights hero Martin Luther King thought gays could be cured through psychotherapy
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2017, 01:31:27 PM
Someone flying a Union flag at England/Norn Iron match - is that not offensive to atheists, given the links to the saints and christianity?

If someone brought a rainbow flag to Croke Park, is that not offensive to those opposed to gay rights/marriage?

I hope they don't find out about Anthony Rainbow's jersey.

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Or the fact, civil rights hero Martin Luther King thought gays could be cured through psychotherapy

That is important because...?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Kurtz on August 17, 2017, 01:35:05 PM
Someone flying a Union flag at England/Norn Iron match - is that not offensive to atheists, given the links to the saints and christianity?

If someone brought a rainbow flag to Croke Park, is that not offensive to those opposed to gay rights/marriage?

I hope they don't find out about Anthony Rainbow's jersey.

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Or the fact, civil rights hero Martin Luther King thought gays could be cured through psychotherapy

That is important because...?
He would be considered a bigot under current snowflake rules today
if you cant figure that out then I cant help you any further
maybe we need safe spaces in croke park
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2017, 01:41:33 PM
Someone flying a Union flag at England/Norn Iron match - is that not offensive to atheists, given the links to the saints and christianity?

If someone brought a rainbow flag to Croke Park, is that not offensive to those opposed to gay rights/marriage?

I hope they don't find out about Anthony Rainbow's jersey.

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Or the fact, civil rights hero Martin Luther King thought gays could be cured through psychotherapy

That is important because...?
He would be considered a bigot under current snowflake rules today
if you cant figure that out then I cant help you any further
maybe we need safe spaces in croke park

IF MLK were around and alive today, preaching gay conversion therapy, he would absolutely be discredited in that front, and rightly so.

But he is not famous, or a giant of history, for teaching and activism on gay issues, is he?

So again, so what?

No one ever said MLK or any other man knew everything or, while a visionary on certain issues, was not a man of their time on others.

FDR cheated on his wife. So did JFK. Does that negate their influence and accomplishments?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: johnneycool on August 17, 2017, 01:56:37 PM
If you've ever watched any of those retro TV shows like "It was alright in the 70's/80's/90's" there are loads of WTF moments where in this day and age we can't understand how they got away with it.

Cork and the Confederate (battle) flag is just one of those things which no one batted an eyelid back in the day, but now its connotations are of the white supremacists and should be unacceptable in modern Ireland.

Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Kurtz on August 17, 2017, 02:03:06 PM
Someone flying a Union flag at England/Norn Iron match - is that not offensive to atheists, given the links to the saints and christianity?

If someone brought a rainbow flag to Croke Park, is that not offensive to those opposed to gay rights/marriage?

I hope they don't find out about Anthony Rainbow's jersey.

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Or the fact, civil rights hero Martin Luther King thought gays could be cured through psychotherapy

That is important because...?
He would be considered a bigot under current snowflake rules today
if you cant figure that out then I cant help you any further
maybe we need safe spaces in croke park

IF MLK were around and alive today, preaching gay conversion therapy, he would absolutely be discredited in that front, and rightly so.

But he is not famous, or a giant of history, for teaching and activism on gay issues, is he?

So again, so what?

No one ever said MLK or any other man knew everything or, while a visionary on certain issues, was not a man of their time on others.

FDR cheated on his wife. So did JFK. Does that negate their influence and accomplishments?

LOL

Martin Luther King
All these lazy snowflake acronyms
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Kurtz on August 17, 2017, 02:09:52 PM
No more che guevara flags either

Her was a book burning racist   :P

Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: BennyCake on August 17, 2017, 03:50:32 PM
Cork and the Confederate (battle) flag is just one of those things which no one batted an eyelid back in the day, but now its connotations are of the white supremacists and should be unacceptable in modern Ireland.

If that's the case, should the same not apply to the Orange Order?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: BennyCake on August 17, 2017, 03:56:01 PM
If you've ever watched any of those retro TV shows like "It was alright in the 70's/80's/90's" there are loads of WTF moments where in this day and age we can't understand how they got away with it.

Have you been watching that Jimmy Saville clip again?  ;D
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: omaghjoe on August 17, 2017, 05:47:24 PM
The GAA and far right symbolism are intertwined.

Firstly you have at least 4 counties with a loyalist paramilitary symbol on their crests

And then to top it off the top prize in hurling and football is rewarded with a medal of the most common symbol of modern neonazism.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Orior on August 17, 2017, 06:29:36 PM
The GAA and far right symbolism are intertwined.

Firstly you have at least 4 counties with a loyalist paramilitary symbol on their crests

And then to top it off the top prize in hurling and football is rewarded with a medal of the most common symbol of modern neonazism.

Yes, this is outrageous. There's only one thing that we have to change - everything!
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Orior on August 17, 2017, 06:32:39 PM
Btw, some of you may remember me taking an Orange Order flag to matches in Croke Park in 2005. Nobody seemed to take offence.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: trileacman on August 17, 2017, 07:48:42 PM
Btw, some of you may remember me taking an Orange Order flag to matches in Croke Park in 2005. Nobody seemed to take offence.

Photos?? Would love to see it.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: trileacman on August 17, 2017, 07:54:54 PM
Can we get the skull and crossed bones off the UCC jersey too? I find it incredibly offensive given that piracy is a problem still continuing to this day.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Syferus on August 17, 2017, 07:57:50 PM
Can we get the skull and crossed bones off the UCC flag too? I find it incredibly offensive given that it is a problem still continuing to this day.

Some of ye are making awful tools of yerselves with absolutely no provocation.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: omaghjoe on August 17, 2017, 08:23:36 PM
Can we get the skull and crossed bones off the UCC jersey too? I find it incredibly offensive given that piracy is a problem still continuing to this day.

I never realised that. Didnt the SS have that symbol as well?

Disgraceful stuff from Cork it seems to be the epicenter of all this hidden GAA facisim.

They are a law unto themselves tho but the Celtic Cross the GAA should do something about given they are under their control. All the more worrying that they redesigned it in recent years and sill kept the symbol as the templatefor the design.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Orior on August 17, 2017, 09:07:23 PM
Btw, some of you may remember me taking an Orange Order flag to matches in Croke Park in 2005. Nobody seemed to take offence.

Photos?? Would love to see it.

Photos yes, but I gotta protect peoples anonymity
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2017, 10:13:23 PM
I never realised that. Didnt the SS have that symbol as well?

Skull and two parallel bones IIRC.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: trileacman on August 17, 2017, 10:40:14 PM
I never realised that. Didnt the SS have that symbol as well?

Skull and two parallel bones IIRC.

Incorrectly. Two crossed bones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totenkopf (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totenkopf)
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: omaghjoe on August 18, 2017, 07:09:28 AM
These Nazi All-Ireland medals should be handed back in and the design changed forthwith.... it would cause consternation in Kerry as they might have to change their currency.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 18, 2017, 08:59:17 AM
These Nazi All-Ireland medals should be handed back in and the design changed forthwith.... it would cause consternation in Kerry as they might have to change their currency.

What are you talking about
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: stew on August 18, 2017, 09:16:33 AM
People get way to het up about flags, I don't give a damn about any flag, that said, a flag had nothing to do with some Muslim terrorist **** mowing down people in Spain yesterday, the world has bigger problems than worrying about a piece of cloth and its symbolism.


Hate speech is protected in the US as it should be, although deplorable you cannot and should not be able to stop any voice from being heard if you live in a true democracy, rather, you should engage in debate and destroy said hate speech with reason and moral arguments.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Kurtz on August 18, 2017, 09:43:49 AM
Shamrocks are used as an Aryan Brotherhood symbol

So they need to go too ;D :o
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 18, 2017, 10:29:13 AM
Hate speech is protected in the US as it should be, although deplorable you cannot and should not be able to stop any voice from being heard if you live in a true democracy, rather, you should engage in debate and destroy said hate speech with reason and moral arguments.

Trump would like to have "punched that guy right in his face" for daring to stand up to the fcukwit megalomaniac on his Presidential hustings and speaking freely, while his security henchmen beat the living shit out of him. That's all the fault of the 'Liberals' though is it, or are you just delusional about free(hate) speech in the US?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Kurtz on August 18, 2017, 11:06:40 AM
Hate speech is protected in the US as it should be, although deplorable you cannot and should not be able to stop any voice from being heard if you live in a true democracy, rather, you should engage in debate and destroy said hate speech with reason and moral arguments.

Trump would like to have "punched that guy right in his face" for daring to stand up to the fcukwit megalomaniac on his Presidential hustings and speaking freely, while his security henchmen beat the living shit out of him. That's all the fault of the 'Liberals' though is it, or are you just delusional about free(hate) speech in the US?

You can now be arrested and hauled away in Canada for using the "wrong" pronoun. Even Hitler and Mussolini didn't think of that one. Way to go Liberals.
Did you know, that the Confederates were Democrats   :-* :-*

Whats the difference between a Liberal and a Redneck, both have no idea what a Software coder really does, but only one thinks they aren't coders because of discrimination.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 18, 2017, 11:24:39 AM
Hate speech is protected in the US as it should be, although deplorable you cannot and should not be able to stop any voice from being heard if you live in a true democracy, rather, you should engage in debate and destroy said hate speech with reason and moral arguments.

Trump would like to have "punched that guy right in his face" for daring to stand up to the fcukwit megalomaniac on his Presidential hustings and speaking freely, while his security henchmen beat the living shit out of him. That's all the fault of the 'Liberals' though is it, or are you just delusional about free(hate) speech in the US?

You can now be arrested and hauled away in Canada for using the "wrong" pronoun. Even Hitler and Mussolini didn't think of that one. Way to go Liberals.
Did you know, that the Confederates were Democrats   :-* :-*

Whats the difference between a Liberal and a Redneck, both have no idea what a Software coder really does, but only one thinks they aren't coders because of discrimination.
Well done girl, you've just found out one of the most basic pieces of information about US political history.

You're clearly now an expert on the subject.

Don't bother going into comedy, by they way. Comedy is supposed to be funny.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: LCohen on August 18, 2017, 02:38:11 PM
Loyalists up this direction fly the confederate flag.

I can't think what possesses a cork fan to fly the flag as opposed to another red and white flag? Other than ignorance which excuses nothing
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: J70 on August 18, 2017, 02:41:24 PM
Loyalists up this direction fly the confederate flag.

I can't think what possesses a cork fan to fly the flag as opposed to another red and white flag? Other than ignorance which excuses nothing

Not any more.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: omaghjoe on August 18, 2017, 03:31:04 PM
These Nazi All-Ireland medals should be handed back in and the design changed forthwith.... it would cause consternation in Kerry as they might have to change their currency.

What are you talking about

That a Celtic Cross is probably the most common symbol of the modern far right in Europe.
Being much more widespread and in those places more exclusive to those "causes" than the confederate flag.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: omaghjoe on August 18, 2017, 03:31:52 PM
Loyalists up this direction fly the confederate flag.

I can't think what possesses a cork fan to fly the flag as opposed to another red and white flag? Other than ignorance which excuses nothing

Not to mention the red hand of Ulster which is a much more prominent loyalist symbol.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: BennyCake on August 18, 2017, 04:21:44 PM
Loyalists up this direction fly the confederate flag.

I can't think what possesses a cork fan to fly the flag as opposed to another red and white flag? Other than ignorance which excuses nothing

Not to mention the red hand of Ulster which is a much more prominent loyalist symbol.

Loyalists adopted the Red Hand. It's a Nationalist symbol.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: omaghjoe on August 18, 2017, 04:48:45 PM
Loyalists up this direction fly the confederate flag.

I can't think what possesses a cork fan to fly the flag as opposed to another red and white flag? Other than ignorance which excuses nothing

Not to mention the red hand of Ulster which is a much more prominent loyalist symbol.

Loyalists adopted the Red Hand. It's a Nationalist symbol.


Loyalists would say that its representative of Ulster not the whole of Ireland so how could it be AI NAtionalist.... and that it was around long before the concept of soverign Nationlism came to Ireland
And that's beside the point as white nationalists in America adopted the confederate flag.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2017, 05:25:10 PM
Hate speech is protected in the US as it should be, although deplorable you cannot and should not be able to stop any voice from being heard if you live in a true democracy, rather, you should engage in debate and destroy said hate speech with reason and moral arguments.

Incorrect. The First Amendment only stops the government from censoring you. I can still tell you to shut up.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2017, 05:29:06 PM
Isn't the red hand the symbol of the O'Neills who led the Irish Rebellion of 1641?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 18, 2017, 05:43:39 PM
Isn't the red hand the symbol of the O'Neills who led the Irish Rebellion of 1641?

Nope, goes way back beyond that particular rebellion (in origin), but well adopted by then, true.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Tony Baloney on August 18, 2017, 07:36:26 PM
The same people moaning about this would no doubt tell the Loyalist 'fleggers' that "it's only a flag". And they'd be correct. Nothing to see here.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: omaghjoe on August 18, 2017, 09:00:16 PM
Isn't the red hand the symbol of the O'Neills who led the Irish Rebellion of 1641?

Nope, goes way back beyond that particular rebellion (in origin), but well adopted by then, true.

Was it adopted by the confederacy? dont think so? Besides it could be argued the confederacy had more in common with loyalist considering their pledge of loyalty to the English crown and interest in self governance. Not to mention their defeat to the first Republicans in Ireland?  :P
Also what were were the O'Neills interested in? Certainly prior to this it was about maintaining control of their fifedom in Ulster and it would be safe to assume that they seen the confedercy as a vessel to regaining that.

This is all well besides the point anyway as we are talking about ridding the association from symbols with prominent associations of present day far right groups. Of which the Red Hand and especially the Celtic Cross are two of the most conspicuous within the association


Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: BennyCake on August 18, 2017, 10:29:10 PM
These Nazi All-Ireland medals should be handed back in and the design changed forthwith.... it would cause consternation in Kerry as they might have to change their currency.

What are you talking about

That a Celtic Cross is probably the most common symbol of the modern far right in Europe.
Being much more widespread and in those places more exclusive to those "causes" than the confederate flag.

Can you explain the Celtic Cross controversy?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: BennyCake on August 18, 2017, 10:31:39 PM
Isn't the red hand the symbol of the O'Neills who led the Irish Rebellion of 1641?

Nope, goes way back beyond that particular rebellion (in origin), but well adopted by then, true.

Was it adopted by the confederacy? dont think so? Besides it could be argued the confederacy had more in common with loyalist considering their pledge of loyalty to the English crown and interest in self governance. Not to mention their defeat to the first Republicans in Ireland?  :P
Also what were were the O'Neills interested in? Certainly prior to this it was about maintaining control of their fifedom in Ulster and it would be safe to assume that they seen the confedercy as a vessel to regaining that.

This is all well besides the point anyway as we are talking about ridding the association from symbols with prominent associations of present day far right groups. Of which the Red Hand and especially the Celtic Cross are two of the most conspicuous within the association

I suppose if you're talking about controversial links, then the IRA leaders thing is of similar controversy to Confederates flag. The Protestants/Loyalists do have a point when raising that issue.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 18, 2017, 10:36:42 PM
I suppose if you're talking about controversial links, then the IRA leaders thing is of similar controversy to Confederates flag. The Protestants/Loyalists do have a point when raising that issue.

If I had my way there'd be a rule saying you can't name a club after someone who was notable for their involvement in political violence within the last 70 years. So you could still call your club Sarsfield's but not Bobby Sands'.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: LCohen on August 18, 2017, 10:44:15 PM
A lot of symbols have a mixed or confused history. This allows current users to point to the positive history.

Not sure what the positive history of the confederate flag is that Cork fans would point to is?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: hardstation on August 18, 2017, 10:56:06 PM
I suppose if you're talking about controversial links, then the IRA leaders thing is of similar controversy to Confederates flag. The Protestants/Loyalists do have a point when raising that issue.

If I had my way there'd be a rule saying you can't name a club after someone who was notable for their involvement in political violence within the last 70 years. So you could still call your club Sarsfield's but not Bobby Sands'.
Is that a rolling 70 years or particularly pre-1947?

What is it about life after 1947?

Tom Williams makes the cut....Sean South misses it.
Joe Cahill gets in for his pre-1947 stuff as long as nobody brings up any of the shite after that.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: omaghjoe on August 18, 2017, 10:58:14 PM
These Nazi All-Ireland medals should be handed back in and the design changed forthwith.... it would cause consternation in Kerry as they might have to change their currency.

What are you talking about

That a Celtic Cross is probably the most common symbol of the modern far right in Europe.
Being much more widespread and in those places more exclusive to those "causes" than the confederate flag.

Can you explain the Celtic Cross controversy?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: magpie seanie on August 18, 2017, 11:00:13 PM
A bit depressing seeing the ignorance of some on this thread. The confederate flag is something I'd equate with a swastika or KKK hood/costume. I find it difficult to believe most people would not understand the deeply racist connotations of such a flag. And surely someone near the clown(s) who had this flag would have known and had the sense to tell them to take it down. I know i would if I were there. I'd be mortified if I were from Cork. It's not cool and it's not funny. The defence of it on this thread is sickening and very depressing to be honest.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: omaghjoe on August 19, 2017, 12:07:33 AM
A lot of symbols have a mixed or confused history. This allows current users to point to the positive history.

Not sure what the positive history of the confederate flag is that Cork fans would point to is?

Southern Identity/CUlture
Rebelliousness/Restless spirit
Wilie Nelson
Dukes of Hazard
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 19, 2017, 01:16:45 AM
From today's Irish Times letters page:

Sir, – If Cork fans want to fly the Confederate battle flag, that is their choice. If, as some may claim, it is a harmless flag, in the context, and is only used for its colours, well, there is another flag to hand that they may use that contains the same red, white and blue, ie the British flag.

No takers? I didn’t think so, given the reputation of the Tans in Cork. Well, now they know what “offensive” means. – Yours, etc,

GEARÓID Ó LOINGSIGH,
Calle,
Bogotá,
Colombia.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 19, 2017, 01:18:20 AM
I suppose if you're talking about controversial links, then the IRA leaders thing is of similar controversy to Confederates flag. The Protestants/Loyalists do have a point when raising that issue.

If I had my way there'd be a rule saying you can't name a club after someone who was notable for their involvement in political violence within the last 70 years. So you could still call your club Sarsfield's but not Bobby Sands'.
Is that a rolling 70 years or particularly pre-1947?



A rolling 70 years. Enough time for the dust to settle. Fewer people around to still be bitter enough to make a big deal about it. That sort of thing.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: omaghjoe on August 19, 2017, 04:06:41 AM
I suppose if you're talking about controversial links, then the IRA leaders thing is of similar controversy to Confederates flag. The Protestants/Loyalists do have a point when raising that issue.

If I had my way there'd be a rule saying you can't name a club after someone who was notable for their involvement in political violence within the last 70 years. So you could still call your club Sarsfield's but not Bobby Sands'.
Is that a rolling 70 years or particularly pre-1947?



A rolling 70 years. Enough time for the dust to settle. Fewer people around to still be bitter enough to make a big deal about it. That sort of thing.

Would these rules not leave us free to use the Confederate battle flag tho?
Does this include all political violence? inc sovereign armed forces?
You would be eligible to get San Jose Hitlers GFC goin then too wha?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: stephenite on August 19, 2017, 04:29:08 AM
From today's Irish Times letters page:

Sir, – If Cork fans want to fly the Confederate battle flag, that is their choice. If, as some may claim, it is a harmless flag, in the context, and is only used for its colours, well, there is another flag to hand that they may use that contains the same red, white and blue, ie the British flag.

No takers? I didn’t think so, given the reputation of the Tans in Cork. Well, now they know what “offensive” means. – Yours, etc,

GEARÓID Ó LOINGSIGH,
Calle,
Bogotá,
Colombia.

Brilliant
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: An Fhairche Abu on August 19, 2017, 09:14:06 AM
A bit depressing seeing the ignorance of some on this thread. The confederate flag is something I'd equate with a swastika or KKK hood/costume. I find it difficult to believe most people would not understand the deeply racist connotations of such a flag. And surely someone near the clown(s) who had this flag would have known and had the sense to tell them to take it down. I know i would if I were there. I'd be mortified if I were from Cork. It's not cool and it's not funny. The defence of it on this thread is sickening and very depressing to be honest.

Well said, can't understand by the stanch defence of this by some, can the langers just not bring a Cork flag with them?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: vallankumous on August 19, 2017, 09:24:53 AM
From today's Irish Times letters page:

Sir, – If Cork fans want to fly the Confederate battle flag, that is their choice. If, as some may claim, it is a harmless flag, in the context, and is only used for its colours, well, there is another flag to hand that they may use that contains the same red, white and blue, ie the British flag.

No takers? I didn’t think so, given the reputation of the Tans in Cork. Well, now they know what “offensive” means. – Yours, etc,

GEARÓID Ó LOINGSIGH,
Calle,
Bogotá,
Colombia.

I'd say the Confederate flag being used by Cork fans is a symbol of secession from the Union.
It's probably more about 'the people's republic of Cork' than anything else.
To suggest it could be replaced with the Union Jack is a silly cheap shot.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: LCohen on August 19, 2017, 11:25:27 AM
A lot of symbols have a mixed or confused history. This allows current users to point to the positive history.

Not sure what the positive history of the confederate flag is that Cork fans would point to is?

Southern Identity/CUlture
Rebelliousness/Restless spirit
Wilie Nelson
Dukes of Hazard

Other emblems do each of the first 2 couplets. Other confederate flags even do that. But the flag of choice is the one that was specifically designed to rally the south to the protection of the god given supremacy of white men over all other races.

It's other uses are
A) A focal point for rednecks who continue to believe in their supremacy and
B) A fashion item for people who are ignorant in an era when information is all around them

Cork people seem to want to create a C) category i.e. People who want to copy people in category B) because copying the ignorant is a more acceptable form of ignorance

Just lift a different flag on the way out the door
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Meadbh on August 19, 2017, 11:32:07 AM
A bit depressing seeing the ignorance of some on this thread. The confederate flag is something I'd equate with a swastika or KKK hood/costume. I find it difficult to believe most people would not understand the deeply racist connotations of such a flag. And surely someone near the clown(s) who had this flag would have known and had the sense to tell them to take it down. I know i would if I were there. I'd be mortified if I were from Cork. It's not cool and it's not funny. The defence of it on this thread is sickening and very depressing to be honest.

Couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 19, 2017, 11:46:02 AM
A lot of symbols have a mixed or confused history. This allows current users to point to the positive history.

Not sure what the positive history of the confederate flag is that Cork fans would point to is?

Southern Identity/CUlture
Rebelliousness/Restless spirit
Wilie Nelson
Dukes of Hazard

Other emblems do each of the first 2 couplets. Other confederate flags even do that. But the flag of choice is the one that was specifically designed to rally the south to the protection of the god given supremacy of white men over all other races.

It's other uses are
A) A focal point for rednecks who continue to believe in their supremacy and
B) A fashion item for people who are ignorant in an era when information is all around them

Cork people seem to want to create a C) category i.e. People who want to copy people in category B) because copying the ignorant is a more acceptable form of ignorance

Just lift a different flag on the way out the door

It's not really why that flag was designed but no matter. If the southern states are removing it then it's time it was consigned to museums.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 19, 2017, 11:47:11 AM
These Nazi All-Ireland medals should be handed back in and the design changed forthwith.... it would cause consternation in Kerry as they might have to change their currency.

What are you talking about

That a Celtic Cross is probably the most common symbol of the modern far right in Europe.
Being much more widespread and in those places more exclusive to those "causes" than the confederate flag.

This pisses me off. I hate the fact that the far right have taken the celtic cross as their own. Same with Viking runes and symbols too. I love Viking history and mythology and the fact the far right use them really annoys me
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 19, 2017, 12:25:42 PM
From today's Irish Times letters page:

Sir, – If Cork fans want to fly the Confederate battle flag, that is their choice. If, as some may claim, it is a harmless flag, in the context, and is only used for its colours, well, there is another flag to hand that they may use that contains the same red, white and blue, ie the British flag.

No takers? I didn’t think so, given the reputation of the Tans in Cork. Well, now they know what “offensive” means. – Yours, etc,

GEARÓID Ó LOINGSIGH,
Calle,
Bogotá,
Colombia.

I'd say the Confederate flag being used by Cork fans is a symbol of secession from the Union.
It's probably more about 'the people's republic of Cork' than anything else.
To suggest it could be replaced with the Union Jack is a silly cheap shot.
The Union Jack would be less offensive.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 19, 2017, 12:40:34 PM
From today's Irish Times letters page:

Sir, – If Cork fans want to fly the Confederate battle flag, that is their choice. If, as some may claim, it is a harmless flag, in the context, and is only used for its colours, well, there is another flag to hand that they may use that contains the same red, white and blue, ie the British flag.

No takers? I didn’t think so, given the reputation of the Tans in Cork. Well, now they know what “offensive” means. – Yours, etc,

GEARÓID Ó LOINGSIGH,
Calle,
Bogotá,
Colombia.

I'd say the Confederate flag being used by Cork fans is a symbol of secession from the Union.
It's probably more about 'the people's republic of Cork' than anything else.
To suggest it could be replaced with the Union Jack is a silly cheap shot.
The Union Jack would be less offensive.

Less offensive to who
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: LCohen on August 19, 2017, 01:08:29 PM
A lot of symbols have a mixed or confused history. This allows current users to point to the positive history.

Not sure what the positive history of the confederate flag is that Cork fans would point to is?

Southern Identity/CUlture
Rebelliousness/Restless spirit
Wilie Nelson
Dukes of Hazard

Other emblems do each of the first 2 couplets. Other confederate flags even do that. But the flag of choice is the one that was specifically designed to rally the south to the protection of the god given supremacy of white men over all other races.

It's other uses are
A) A focal point for rednecks who continue to believe in their supremacy and
B) A fashion item for people who are ignorant in an era when information is all around them

Cork people seem to want to create a C) category i.e. People who want to copy people in category B) because copying the ignorant is a more acceptable form of ignorance

Just lift a different flag on the way out the door

It's not really why that flag was designed but no matter. If the southern states are removing it then it's time it was consigned to museums.

What was it for then?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 19, 2017, 01:36:14 PM
A lot of symbols have a mixed or confused history. This allows current users to point to the positive history.

Not sure what the positive history of the confederate flag is that Cork fans would point to is?

Southern Identity/CUlture
Rebelliousness/Restless spirit
Wilie Nelson
Dukes of Hazard

Other emblems do each of the first 2 couplets. Other confederate flags even do that. But the flag of choice is the one that was specifically designed to rally the south to the protection of the god given supremacy of white men over all other races.

It's other uses are
A) A focal point for rednecks who continue to believe in their supremacy and
B) A fashion item for people who are ignorant in an era when information is all around them

Cork people seem to want to create a C) category i.e. People who want to copy people in category B) because copying the ignorant is a more acceptable form of ignorance

Just lift a different flag on the way out the door

It's not really why that flag was designed but no matter. If the southern states are removing it then it's time it was consigned to museums.

What was it for then?

The original flag was too close to the union flag and hard to tell apar on the battlefield
http://www.historynet.com/embattled-banner-the-convoluted-history-of-the-confederate-flag.htm
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 19, 2017, 01:36:52 PM
From today's Irish Times letters page:

Sir, – If Cork fans want to fly the Confederate battle flag, that is their choice. If, as some may claim, it is a harmless flag, in the context, and is only used for its colours, well, there is another flag to hand that they may use that contains the same red, white and blue, ie the British flag.

No takers? I didn’t think so, given the reputation of the Tans in Cork. Well, now they know what “offensive” means. – Yours, etc,

GEARÓID Ó LOINGSIGH,
Calle,
Bogotá,
Colombia.

I'd say the Confederate flag being used by Cork fans is a symbol of secession from the Union.
It's probably more about 'the people's republic of Cork' than anything else.
To suggest it could be replaced with the Union Jack is a silly cheap shot.
The Union Jack would be less offensive.

Less offensive to who
Less offensive to anybody who recognises international law as it's an internationally recognised flag of an internationally recognised nation state which doesn't impose slavery.

I'd find it about as offensive as I would hearing God Save the Queen played at Croke Park, and I didn't find that offensive.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: LCohen on August 19, 2017, 02:56:15 PM
A lot of symbols have a mixed or confused history. This allows current users to point to the positive history.

Not sure what the positive history of the confederate flag is that Cork fans would point to is?

Southern Identity/CUlture
Rebelliousness/Restless spirit
Wilie Nelson
Dukes of Hazard

Other emblems do each of the first 2 couplets. Other confederate flags even do that. But the flag of choice is the one that was specifically designed to rally the south to the protection of the god given supremacy of white men over all other races.

It's other uses are
A) A focal point for rednecks who continue to believe in their supremacy and
B) A fashion item for people who are ignorant in an era when information is all around them

Cork people seem to want to create a C) category i.e. People who want to copy people in category B) because copying the ignorant is a more acceptable form of ignorance

Just lift a different flag on the way out the door

It's not really why that flag was designed but no matter. If the southern states are removing it then it's time it was consigned to museums.

What was it for then?

The original flag was too close to the union flag and hard to tell apar on the battlefield
http://www.historynet.com/embattled-banner-the-convoluted-history-of-the-confederate-flag.htm

The square battle flag is the basis of the confederate flag. But it's adaptation and subsequent adoption is very definitely rooted in the god ordained supremacy of the white race
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: BennyCake on August 19, 2017, 03:14:30 PM
The fact is, I've seen Cork fans fly it since the late 1980's, and never heard a peep about it. Now someone drew attention to it because it coincided with this Charlottesville thing, and now we are all told we should feel disgusted by it.

This is all coming from the big lads in Croke Park, the focus is on the GAA, and it's tarnishing the GAA's name. Well, those same big lads have sat back for 30 years and seen the flag flown, knowing it's significance and meanng, but it's only now they're up in arms about it. Hypocrisy, how are ye?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 19, 2017, 03:56:57 PM
The fact is, I've seen Cork fans fly it since the late 1980's, and never heard a peep about it. Now someone drew attention to it because it coincided with this Charlottesville thing, and now we are all told we should feel disgusted by it.

This is all coming from the big lads in Croke Park, the focus is on the GAA, and it's tarnishing the GAA's name. Well, those same big lads have sat back for 30 years and seen the flag flown, knowing it's significance and meanng, but it's only now they're up in arms about it. Hypocrisy, how are ye?
Again, wilful stupidity.

The argument that something should always be considered acceptable merely because it was once considered acceptable is the dumbest argument possible.

It's the same argument that says the n word should be acceptable today and is an argument for the world to stand still.

It's a pro-stupidity argument and nothing else.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: BennyCake on August 19, 2017, 04:10:00 PM
The fact is, I've seen Cork fans fly it since the late 1980's, and never heard a peep about it. Now someone drew attention to it because it coincided with this Charlottesville thing, and now we are all told we should feel disgusted by it.

This is all coming from the big lads in Croke Park, the focus is on the GAA, and it's tarnishing the GAA's name. Well, those same big lads have sat back for 30 years and seen the flag flown, knowing it's significance and meanng, but it's only now they're up in arms about it. Hypocrisy, how are ye?
Again, wilful stupidity.

The argument that something should always be considered acceptable merely because it was once considered acceptable is the dumbest argument possible.

It's the same argument that says the n word should be acceptable today and is an argument for the world to stand still.

It's a pro-stupidity argument and nothing else.

I'm not arguing it's right or wrong to fly it. Only the flag had the same meaning in 1987 as it does now. It's the sway the media put on it now, that we should all be outraged. I'm not. Last week I couldn't give a shit. This week I still don't give a shit.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 19, 2017, 04:28:01 PM
The fact is, I've seen Cork fans fly it since the late 1980's, and never heard a peep about it. Now someone drew attention to it because it coincided with this Charlottesville thing, and now we are all told we should feel disgusted by it.

This is all coming from the big lads in Croke Park, the focus is on the GAA, and it's tarnishing the GAA's name. Well, those same big lads have sat back for 30 years and seen the flag flown, knowing it's significance and meanng, but it's only now they're up in arms about it. Hypocrisy, how are ye?
Again, wilful stupidity.

The argument that something should always be considered acceptable merely because it was once considered acceptable is the dumbest argument possible.

It's the same argument that says the n word should be acceptable today and is an argument for the world to stand still.

It's a pro-stupidity argument and nothing else.

I'm not arguing it's right or wrong to fly it. Only the flag had the same meaning in 1987 as it does now. It's the sway the media put on it now, that we should all be outraged. I'm not. Last week I couldn't give a shit. This week I still don't give a shit.
You're arguing for the world to stand still.

That's a really dumb argument.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Hardy on August 19, 2017, 04:39:44 PM
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 (http://s648.photobucket.com/user/Hardyarse/media/black%20and%20white%20minstrels_zps0u9h3ebs.png.html)
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 19, 2017, 04:42:25 PM
A lot of symbols have a mixed or confused history. This allows current users to point to the positive history.

Not sure what the positive history of the confederate flag is that Cork fans would point to is?

Southern Identity/CUlture
Rebelliousness/Restless spirit
Wilie Nelson
Dukes of Hazard

Other emblems do each of the first 2 couplets. Other confederate flags even do that. But the flag of choice is the one that was specifically designed to rally the south to the protection of the god given supremacy of white men over all other races.

It's other uses are
A) A focal point for rednecks who continue to believe in their supremacy and
B) A fashion item for people who are ignorant in an era when information is all around them

Cork people seem to want to create a C) category i.e. People who want to copy people in category B) because copying the ignorant is a more acceptable form of ignorance

Just lift a different flag on the way out the door

It's not really why that flag was designed but no matter. If the southern states are removing it then it's time it was consigned to museums.

What was it for then?

The original flag was too close to the union flag and hard to tell apar on the battlefield
http://www.historynet.com/embattled-banner-the-convoluted-history-of-the-confederate-flag.htm

The square battle flag is the basis of the confederate flag. But it's adaptation and subsequent adoption is very definitely rooted in the god ordained supremacy of the white race

The original confederate flag was too close to the union flag. There were incidents of friendly fire during that war so they designed new flags. One was the battle flag of the NVA which was then incorporated into the confederate flag. Whatever it is it was originally a flag of the soldier to identify with on the battlefield
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 19, 2017, 04:45:19 PM
From today's Irish Times letters page:

Sir, – If Cork fans want to fly the Confederate battle flag, that is their choice. If, as some may claim, it is a harmless flag, in the context, and is only used for its colours, well, there is another flag to hand that they may use that contains the same red, white and blue, ie the British flag.

No takers? I didn’t think so, given the reputation of the Tans in Cork. Well, now they know what “offensive” means. – Yours, etc,

GEARÓID Ó LOINGSIGH,
Calle,
Bogotá,
Colombia.

I'd say the Confederate flag being used by Cork fans is a symbol of secession from the Union.
It's probably more about 'the people's republic of Cork' than anything else.
To suggest it could be replaced with the Union Jack is a silly cheap shot.
The Union Jack would be less offensive.

Less offensive to who
Less offensive to anybody who recognises international law as it's an internationally recognised flag of an internationally recognised nation state which doesn't impose slavery.

I'd find it about as offensive as I would hearing God Save the Queen played at Croke Park, and I didn't find that offensive.

The British empire imposed slavery for many many years. That flag would have been seen by many as a flag of slavery. It is every bit as offensive as the 'confederate' flag. It being the flag of an internationally recognised state doesn't change that
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 19, 2017, 05:04:25 PM
From today's Irish Times letters page:

Sir, – If Cork fans want to fly the Confederate battle flag, that is their choice. If, as some may claim, it is a harmless flag, in the context, and is only used for its colours, well, there is another flag to hand that they may use that contains the same red, white and blue, ie the British flag.

No takers? I didn’t think so, given the reputation of the Tans in Cork. Well, now they know what “offensive” means. – Yours, etc,

GEARÓID Ó LOINGSIGH,
Calle,
Bogotá,
Colombia.

I'd say the Confederate flag being used by Cork fans is a symbol of secession from the Union.
It's probably more about 'the people's republic of Cork' than anything else.
To suggest it could be replaced with the Union Jack is a silly cheap shot.
The Union Jack would be less offensive.

Less offensive to who
Less offensive to anybody who recognises international law as it's an internationally recognised flag of an internationally recognised nation state which doesn't impose slavery.

I'd find it about as offensive as I would hearing God Save the Queen played at Croke Park, and I didn't find that offensive.

The British empire imposed slavery for many many years. That flag would have been seen by many as a flag of slavery. It is every bit as offensive as the 'confederate' flag. It being the flag of an internationally recognised state doesn't change that
It's very simple.

The Union Jack does not represent slavery. It's the current flag of an internationally recognised nation state which does not impose slavery.

That you find it offensive is a personal matter for you.

Loads of countries had colonial empires, such as France, Spain, Germany, Belgium, Italy and Portugal. All are internationally recognised nation states which may have imposed slavery in the past, but do not currently impose slavery.

The confederate flag is completely indivisible from racism and slavery and completely indivisible from current day racism and white supremacism because it was the symbol of an entity which was set up specifically to uphold those things.

It has no other meaning except that of racism and white supremacism.

That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 19, 2017, 07:00:23 PM
From the Mississippi Declaration of Secession, for those who still argue that the US civil war was primarily about states rights:


In the momentous step, which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: omaghjoe on August 19, 2017, 09:41:00 PM
A lot of symbols have a mixed or confused history. This allows current users to point to the positive history.

Not sure what the positive history of the confederate flag is that Cork fans would point to is?

Southern Identity/CUlture
Rebelliousness/Restless spirit
Wilie Nelson
Dukes of Hazard

Other emblems do each of the first 2 couplets. Other confederate flags even do that. But the flag of choice is the one that was specifically designed to rally the south to the protection of the god given supremacy of white men over all other races.

It's other uses are
A) A focal point for rednecks who continue to believe in their supremacy and
B) A fashion item for people who are ignorant in an era when information is all around them

Cork people seem to want to create a C) category i.e. People who want to copy people in category B) because copying the ignorant is a more acceptable form of ignorance

Just lift a different flag on the way out the door

You said there was nothing positive associated with it, I pointed out a few things that were.
Funnily enough for the record I was listening to this last night too...
 visitors can't see pics , please register or login

....Great stuff

Just for the record the rest of your post is a red herring so I wont indulge.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: omaghjoe on August 19, 2017, 09:44:42 PM
From today's Irish Times letters page:

Sir, – If Cork fans want to fly the Confederate battle flag, that is their choice. If, as some may claim, it is a harmless flag, in the context, and is only used for its colours, well, there is another flag to hand that they may use that contains the same red, white and blue, ie the British flag.

No takers? I didn’t think so, given the reputation of the Tans in Cork. Well, now they know what “offensive” means. – Yours, etc,

GEARÓID Ó LOINGSIGH,
Calle,
Bogotá,
Colombia.

I'd say the Confederate flag being used by Cork fans is a symbol of secession from the Union.
It's probably more about 'the people's republic of Cork' than anything else.
To suggest it could be replaced with the Union Jack is a silly cheap shot.
The Union Jack would be less offensive.

Less offensive to who
Less offensive to anybody who recognises international law as it's an internationally recognised flag of an internationally recognised nation state which doesn't impose slavery.

I'd find it about as offensive as I would hearing God Save the Queen played at Croke Park, and I didn't find that offensive.

The British empire imposed slavery for many many years. That flag would have been seen by many as a flag of slavery. It is every bit as offensive as the 'confederate' flag. It being the flag of an internationally recognised state doesn't change that
It's very simple.

The Union Jack does not represent slavery. It's the current flag of an internationally recognised nation state which does not impose slavery.

That you find it offensive is a personal matter for you.

Loads of countries had colonial empires, such as France, Spain, Germany, Belgium, Italy and Portugal. All are internationally recognised nation states which may have imposed slavery in the past, but do not currently impose slavery.

The confederate flag is completely indivisible from racism and slavery and completely indivisible from current day racism and white supremacism because it was the symbol of an entity which was set up specifically to uphold those things.

It has no other meaning except that of racism and white supremacism.

That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.

So the modern day economy of Britain no longer benefits from the centuries of slave trade?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 19, 2017, 10:52:27 PM
From today's Irish Times letters page:

Sir, – If Cork fans want to fly the Confederate battle flag, that is their choice. If, as some may claim, it is a harmless flag, in the context, and is only used for its colours, well, there is another flag to hand that they may use that contains the same red, white and blue, ie the British flag.

No takers? I didn’t think so, given the reputation of the Tans in Cork. Well, now they know what “offensive” means. – Yours, etc,

GEARÓID Ó LOINGSIGH,
Calle,
Bogotá,
Colombia.

I'd say the Confederate flag being used by Cork fans is a symbol of secession from the Union.
It's probably more about 'the people's republic of Cork' than anything else.
To suggest it could be replaced with the Union Jack is a silly cheap shot.
The Union Jack would be less offensive.

Less offensive to who
Less offensive to anybody who recognises international law as it's an internationally recognised flag of an internationally recognised nation state which doesn't impose slavery.

I'd find it about as offensive as I would hearing God Save the Queen played at Croke Park, and I didn't find that offensive.

The British empire imposed slavery for many many years. That flag would have been seen by many as a flag of slavery. It is every bit as offensive as the 'confederate' flag. It being the flag of an internationally recognised state doesn't change that
It's very simple.

The Union Jack does not represent slavery. It's the current flag of an internationally recognised nation state which does not impose slavery.

That you find it offensive is a personal matter for you.

Loads of countries had colonial empires, such as France, Spain, Germany, Belgium, Italy and Portugal. All are internationally recognised nation states which may have imposed slavery in the past, but do not currently impose slavery.

The confederate flag is completely indivisible from racism and slavery and completely indivisible from current day racism and white supremacism because it was the symbol of an entity which was set up specifically to uphold those things.

It has no other meaning except that of racism and white supremacism.

That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.

So the modern day economy of Britain no longer benefits from the centuries of slave trade?
There are a load of countries who benefit from the long-term effects of the centuries of slave trade.

The United States chief among them.

Are you asking for the stars and stripes to be done away with?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: omaghjoe on August 20, 2017, 06:57:37 AM
From today's Irish Times letters page:

Sir, – If Cork fans want to fly the Confederate battle flag, that is their choice. If, as some may claim, it is a harmless flag, in the context, and is only used for its colours, well, there is another flag to hand that they may use that contains the same red, white and blue, ie the British flag.

No takers? I didn’t think so, given the reputation of the Tans in Cork. Well, now they know what “offensive” means. – Yours, etc,

GEARÓID Ó LOINGSIGH,
Calle,
Bogotá,
Colombia.

I'd say the Confederate flag being used by Cork fans is a symbol of secession from the Union.
It's probably more about 'the people's republic of Cork' than anything else.
To suggest it could be replaced with the Union Jack is a silly cheap shot.
The Union Jack would be less offensive.

Less offensive to who
Less offensive to anybody who recognises international law as it's an internationally recognised flag of an internationally recognised nation state which doesn't impose slavery.

I'd find it about as offensive as I would hearing God Save the Queen played at Croke Park, and I didn't find that offensive.

The British empire imposed slavery for many many years. That flag would have been seen by many as a flag of slavery. It is every bit as offensive as the 'confederate' flag. It being the flag of an internationally recognised state doesn't change that
It's very simple.

The Union Jack does not represent slavery. It's the current flag of an internationally recognised nation state which does not impose slavery.

That you find it offensive is a personal matter for you.

Loads of countries had colonial empires, such as France, Spain, Germany, Belgium, Italy and Portugal. All are internationally recognised nation states which may have imposed slavery in the past, but do not currently impose slavery.

The confederate flag is completely indivisible from racism and slavery and completely indivisible from current day racism and white supremacism because it was the symbol of an entity which was set up specifically to uphold those things.

It has no other meaning except that of racism and white supremacism.

That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.

So the modern day economy of Britain no longer benefits from the centuries of slave trade?
There are a load of countries who benefit from the long-term effects of the centuries of slave trade.

The United States chief among them.

Are you asking for the stars and stripes to be done away with?

No.... are you?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 20, 2017, 08:27:49 AM
That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.

That you don't find objectionable the flag of a country that still occupies part of your own, and which has a reprehensible overseas history to this day with ill-starred military excursions in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc., being simply the latest instalment is your choice; and it's also the prerogative of some of us more directly affected to take an alternative position.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: LCohen on August 20, 2017, 09:31:21 AM
The fact is, I've seen Cork fans fly it since the late 1980's, and never heard a peep about it. Now someone drew attention to it because it coincided with this Charlottesville thing, and now we are all told we should feel disgusted by it.

This is all coming from the big lads in Croke Park, the focus is on the GAA, and it's tarnishing the GAA's name. Well, those same big lads have sat back for 30 years and seen the flag flown, knowing it's significance and meanng, but it's only now they're up in arms about it. Hypocrisy, how are ye?

If things have been wrong for a while we should just let them be. Doing anything about it would risk an accusation of hypocrisy and we couldn't have that now
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: LCohen on August 20, 2017, 09:36:45 AM
From today's Irish Times letters page:

Sir, – If Cork fans want to fly the Confederate battle flag, that is their choice. If, as some may claim, it is a harmless flag, in the context, and is only used for its colours, well, there is another flag to hand that they may use that contains the same red, white and blue, ie the British flag.

No takers? I didn’t think so, given the reputation of the Tans in Cork. Well, now they know what “offensive” means. – Yours, etc,

GEARÓID Ó LOINGSIGH,
Calle,
Bogotá,
Colombia.

I'd say the Confederate flag being used by Cork fans is a symbol of secession from the Union.
It's probably more about 'the people's republic of Cork' than anything else.
To suggest it could be replaced with the Union Jack is a silly cheap shot.
The Union Jack would be less offensive.

Less offensive to who
Less offensive to anybody who recognises international law as it's an internationally recognised flag of an internationally recognised nation state which doesn't impose slavery.

I'd find it about as offensive as I would hearing God Save the Queen played at Croke Park, and I didn't find that offensive.

The British empire imposed slavery for many many years. That flag would have been seen by many as a flag of slavery. It is every bit as offensive as the 'confederate' flag. It being the flag of an internationally recognised state doesn't change that

The British state did many bad things. The Irish state did many bad things. Probably any state that has been around for long has done bad things. But they have all done good things also. The confederate states were banded together for one thing. Something repulsive. Something to distance yourself from
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: LCohen on August 20, 2017, 09:38:37 AM
A lot of symbols have a mixed or confused history. This allows current users to point to the positive history.

Not sure what the positive history of the confederate flag is that Cork fans would point to is?

Southern Identity/CUlture
Rebelliousness/Restless spirit
Wilie Nelson
Dukes of Hazard

Other emblems do each of the first 2 couplets. Other confederate flags even do that. But the flag of choice is the one that was specifically designed to rally the south to the protection of the god given supremacy of white men over all other races.

It's other uses are
A) A focal point for rednecks who continue to believe in their supremacy and
B) A fashion item for people who are ignorant in an era when information is all around them

Cork people seem to want to create a C) category i.e. People who want to copy people in category B) because copying the ignorant is a more acceptable form of ignorance

Just lift a different flag on the way out the door

You said there was nothing positive associated with it, I pointed out a few things that were.
Funnily enough for the record I was listening to this last night too...
 visitors can't see pics , please register or login

....Great stuff

Just for the record the rest of your post is a red herring so I wont indulge.

Your judgement is seriously flawed
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: stew on August 20, 2017, 10:09:42 AM
The fact is, I've seen Cork fans fly it since the late 1980's, and never heard a peep about it. Now someone drew attention to it because it coincided with this Charlottesville thing, and now we are all told we should feel disgusted by it.

This is all coming from the big lads in Croke Park, the focus is on the GAA, and it's tarnishing the GAA's name. Well, those same big lads have sat back for 30 years and seen the flag flown, knowing it's significance and meanng, but it's only now they're up in arms about it. Hypocrisy, how are ye?

If things have been wrong for a while we should just let them be. Doing anything about it would risk an accusation of hypocrisy and we couldn't have that now

The sheep are told what to think by their media and they react, I have never seen anything like it, the media kick up a fuss overseas so naturally the Cork fans that have been flying a confederate flag are suddenly racists, I have never seen anything quite like peoples response to liberal media these days, the so called reporters write about a perceived issue and the sheep bleat on social media with faux outrage, which would be fine except where was their outrage before the were told they needed to be outraged?

 Catch yourselves on snowflakes, the confederate flag being flown in Croker has nothing to do with Slavery etc and everything to do with the word Rebels, no racism to see here, go find a protest to join about something else you are outraged about!
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: BennyCake on August 20, 2017, 10:35:54 AM
The fact is, I've seen Cork fans fly it since the late 1980's, and never heard a peep about it. Now someone drew attention to it because it coincided with this Charlottesville thing, and now we are all told we should feel disgusted by it.

This is all coming from the big lads in Croke Park, the focus is on the GAA, and it's tarnishing the GAA's name. Well, those same big lads have sat back for 30 years and seen the flag flown, knowing it's significance and meanng, but it's only now they're up in arms about it. Hypocrisy, how are ye?

If things have been wrong for a while we should just let them be. Doing anything about it would risk an accusation of hypocrisy and we couldn't have that now

The sheep are told what to think by their media and they react, I have never seen anything like it, the media kick up a fuss overseas so naturally the Cork fans that have been flying a confederate flag are suddenly racists, I have never seen anything quite like peoples response to liberal media these days, the so called reporters write about a perceived issue and the sheep bleat on social media with faux outrage, which would be fine except where was their outrage before the were told they needed to be outraged?

 Catch yourselves on snowflakes, the confederate flag being flown in Croker has nothing to do with Slavery etc and everything to do with the word Rebels, no racism to see here, go find a protest to join about something else you are outraged about!

Exactly. Nail on the head.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 20, 2017, 11:27:10 AM
That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.

That you don't find objectionable the flag of a country that still occupies part of your own, and which has a reprehensible overseas history to this day with ill-starred military excursions in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc., being simply the latest instalment is your choice; and it's also the prerogative of some of us more directly affected to take an alternative position.
Of course it's your prerogative.

But are you objecting to the legitimacy of the UK flag as the flag of an internationally recognised nation state or denying the right of anybody in the UK to fly it should they so wish?

Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 20, 2017, 11:33:12 AM
The fact is, I've seen Cork fans fly it since the late 1980's, and never heard a peep about it. Now someone drew attention to it because it coincided with this Charlottesville thing, and now we are all told we should feel disgusted by it.

This is all coming from the big lads in Croke Park, the focus is on the GAA, and it's tarnishing the GAA's name. Well, those same big lads have sat back for 30 years and seen the flag flown, knowing it's significance and meanng, but it's only now they're up in arms about it. Hypocrisy, how are ye?

If things have been wrong for a while we should just let them be. Doing anything about it would risk an accusation of hypocrisy and we couldn't have that now

The sheep are told what to think by their media and they react, I have never seen anything like it, the media kick up a fuss overseas so naturally the Cork fans that have been flying a confederate flag are suddenly racists, I have never seen anything quite like peoples response to liberal media these days, the so called reporters write about a perceived issue and the sheep bleat on social media with faux outrage, which would be fine except where was their outrage before the were told they needed to be outraged?

 Catch yourselves on snowflakes, the confederate flag being flown in Croker has nothing to do with Slavery etc and everything to do with the word Rebels, no racism to see here, go find a protest to join about something else you are outraged about!
As always, you prove yourself the ultimate snowflake.

Try and spend less time obsessing over "liberal media" and actually learning something about the issue you choose to ignorantly steam in on, rather than taking stupid, inflexible positions purely as a reaction to an entirely imagined bogeyman.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: trileacman on August 20, 2017, 11:51:53 AM
The fact is, I've seen Cork fans fly it since the late 1980's, and never heard a peep about it. Now someone drew attention to it because it coincided with this Charlottesville thing, and now we are all told we should feel disgusted by it.

This is all coming from the big lads in Croke Park, the focus is on the GAA, and it's tarnishing the GAA's name. Well, those same big lads have sat back for 30 years and seen the flag flown, knowing it's significance and meanng, but it's only now they're up in arms about it. Hypocrisy, how are ye?

If things have been wrong for a while we should just let them be. Doing anything about it would risk an accusation of hypocrisy and we couldn't have that now

The sheep are told what to think by their media and they react, I have never seen anything like it, the media kick up a fuss overseas so naturally the Cork fans that have been flying a confederate flag are suddenly racists, I have never seen anything quite like peoples response to liberal media these days, the so called reporters write about a perceived issue and the sheep bleat on social media with faux outrage, which would be fine except where was their outrage before the were told they needed to be outraged?

 Catch yourselves on snowflakes, the confederate flag being flown in Croker has nothing to do with Slavery etc and everything to do with the word Rebels, no racism to see here, go find a protest to join about something else you are outraged about!

I would disagree with at least 7000 of your posts but you've hit the nail bang on the head here.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: stew on August 20, 2017, 11:55:36 AM
The fact is, I've seen Cork fans fly it since the late 1980's, and never heard a peep about it. Now someone drew attention to it because it coincided with this Charlottesville thing, and now we are all told we should feel disgusted by it.

This is all coming from the big lads in Croke Park, the focus is on the GAA, and it's tarnishing the GAA's name. Well, those same big lads have sat back for 30 years and seen the flag flown, knowing it's significance and meanng, but it's only now they're up in arms about it. Hypocrisy, how are ye?

If things have been wrong for a while we should just let them be. Doing anything about it would risk an accusation of hypocrisy and we couldn't have that now

The sheep are told what to think by their media and they react, I have never seen anything like it, the media kick up a fuss overseas so naturally the Cork fans that have been flying a confederate flag are suddenly racists, I have never seen anything quite like peoples response to liberal media these days, the so called reporters write about a perceived issue and the sheep bleat on social media with faux outrage, which would be fine except where was their outrage before the were told they needed to be outraged?

 Catch yourselves on snowflakes, the confederate flag being flown in Croker has nothing to do with Slavery etc and everything to do with the word Rebels, no racism to see here, go find a protest to join about something else you are outraged about!

I would disagree with at least 7000 of your posts but you've hit the nail bang on the head here.

Blind squirrel and all that.

We don't have to agree, I am happy enough as long as the person who disagrees with me is honest and forthright.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 20, 2017, 12:08:13 PM
That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.

That you don't find objectionable the flag of a country that still occupies part of your own, and which has a reprehensible overseas history to this day with ill-starred military excursions in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc., being simply the latest instalment is your choice; and it's also the prerogative of some of us more directly affected to take an alternative position.
Of course it's your prerogative.

But are you objecting to the legitimacy of the UK flag as the flag of an internationally recognised nation state or denying the right of anybody in the UK to fly it should they so wish?

That you find the Butcher's Apron to be totally innocuous, quite frankly, astonishes me. Have you no conception of the history of the British Empire, from when she first asserted herself on Bannow Bay, in Wexford, until the present day, and the blood that has been ruptured with every imperial adventure, seriously? It''s every bit as offensive to me, though I do appreciate that most adherents are blindly and blithely ignorant of the gory history that inevitably accompanies that rag, and you might not be so conciliatory towards it were you forced to face it daily, AGAINST your will.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 20, 2017, 12:12:01 PM
The fact is, I've seen Cork fans fly it since the late 1980's, and never heard a peep about it. Now someone drew attention to it because it coincided with this Charlottesville thing, and now we are all told we should feel disgusted by it.

This is all coming from the big lads in Croke Park, the focus is on the GAA, and it's tarnishing the GAA's name. Well, those same big lads have sat back for 30 years and seen the flag flown, knowing it's significance and meanng, but it's only now they're up in arms about it. Hypocrisy, how are ye?

If things have been wrong for a while we should just let them be. Doing anything about it would risk an accusation of hypocrisy and we couldn't have that now

The sheep are told what to think by their media and they react, I have never seen anything like it, the media kick up a fuss overseas so naturally the Cork fans that have been flying a confederate flag are suddenly racists, I have never seen anything quite like peoples response to liberal media these days, the so called reporters write about a perceived issue and the sheep bleat on social media with faux outrage, which would be fine except where was their outrage before the were told they needed to be outraged?

 Catch yourselves on snowflakes, the confederate flag being flown in Croker has nothing to do with Slavery etc and everything to do with the word Rebels, no racism to see here, go find a protest to join about something else you are outraged about!

I would disagree with at least 7000 of your posts but you've hit the nail bang on the head here.

Blind squirrel and all that.

We don't have to agree, I am happy enough as long as the person who disagrees with me is honest and forthright.
Comical.  ;D

Your entire output on this forum involves looking at what your imagined bogeyman, the "liberal media", are saying, and then taking a position against anything they say.

Honesty and forthrightness aren't in your lexicon.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: stew on August 20, 2017, 12:12:24 PM
That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.

That you don't find objectionable the flag of a country that still occupies part of your own, and which has a reprehensible overseas history to this day with ill-starred military excursions in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc., being simply the latest instalment is your choice; and it's also the prerogative of some of us more directly affected to take an alternative position.
Of course it's your prerogative.

But are you objecting to the legitimacy of the UK flag as the flag of an internationally recognised nation state or denying the right of anybody in the UK to fly it should they so wish?

That you find the Butcher's Apron to be totally innocuous, quite frankly, astonishes me. Have you no conception of the history of the British Empire, from when she first asserted herself on Bannow Bay, in Wexford, until the present day, and the blood that has been ruptured with every imperial adventure, seriously? It''s every bit as offensive to me, though I do appreciate that most adherents are blindly and blithely ignorant of the gory history that inevitably accompanies that rag, and you might not be so conciliatory towards it were you forced to face it daily, AGAINST your will.

Fear he is too far gone to reason with, there is no reaching this man and no point in trying.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 20, 2017, 12:13:13 PM
That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.

That you don't find objectionable the flag of a country that still occupies part of your own, and which has a reprehensible overseas history to this day with ill-starred military excursions in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc., being simply the latest instalment is your choice; and it's also the prerogative of some of us more directly affected to take an alternative position.
Of course it's your prerogative.

But are you objecting to the legitimacy of the UK flag as the flag of an internationally recognised nation state or denying the right of anybody in the UK to fly it should they so wish?

That you find the Butcher's Apron to be totally innocuous, quite frankly, astonishes me. Have you no conception of the history of the British Empire, from when she first asserted herself on Bannow Bay, in Wexford, until the present day, and the blood that has been ruptured with every imperial adventure, seriously? It''s every bit as offensive to me, though I do appreciate that most adherents are blindly and blithely ignorant of the gory history that inevitably accompanies that rag, and you might not be so conciliatory towards it were you forced to face it daily, AGAINST your will.
Are you advocating for the UK flag to be abolished?

I'm well acquainted with both Irish and UK history, thanks.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 20, 2017, 12:16:35 PM
That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.

That you don't find objectionable the flag of a country that still occupies part of your own, and which has a reprehensible overseas history to this day with ill-starred military excursions in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc., being simply the latest instalment is your choice; and it's also the prerogative of some of us more directly affected to take an alternative position.
Of course it's your prerogative.

But are you objecting to the legitimacy of the UK flag as the flag of an internationally recognised nation state or denying the right of anybody in the UK to fly it should they so wish?

That you find the Butcher's Apron to be totally innocuous, quite frankly, astonishes me. Have you no conception of the history of the British Empire, from when she first asserted herself on Bannow Bay, in Wexford, until the present day, and the blood that has been ruptured with every imperial adventure, seriously? It''s every bit as offensive to me, though I do appreciate that most adherents are blindly and blithely ignorant of the gory history that inevitably accompanies that rag, and you might not be so conciliatory towards it were you forced to face it daily, AGAINST your will.
Are you advocating for the UK flag to be abolished?

I'm well acquainted with Irish history, thanks.

I advocate simply what I always have: BRITAIN GET THE FCUK OUT OF IRELAND, and anywhere else she has no right being in. Then, and only then, might her flag be harmless.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: BennyCake on August 20, 2017, 12:25:45 PM
I understand the history but the Union flag doesn't bother me. I actually think it sad when I see it draped round lampposts and wore on hats/bow ties etc on the Twelfth. I also think it's sad when I see the tricolour wrapped around idiots on St Patrick's Day and other occasions, and placed on lampposts at Easter. Those things speaks volumes to the mentality of people we're dealing with.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 20, 2017, 12:28:43 PM
That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.

That you don't find objectionable the flag of a country that still occupies part of your own, and which has a reprehensible overseas history to this day with ill-starred military excursions in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc., being simply the latest instalment is your choice; and it's also the prerogative of some of us more directly affected to take an alternative position.
Of course it's your prerogative.

But are you objecting to the legitimacy of the UK flag as the flag of an internationally recognised nation state or denying the right of anybody in the UK to fly it should they so wish?

That you find the Butcher's Apron to be totally innocuous, quite frankly, astonishes me. Have you no conception of the history of the British Empire, from when she first asserted herself on Bannow Bay, in Wexford, until the present day, and the blood that has been ruptured with every imperial adventure, seriously? It''s every bit as offensive to me, though I do appreciate that most adherents are blindly and blithely ignorant of the gory history that inevitably accompanies that rag, and you might not be so conciliatory towards it were you forced to face it daily, AGAINST your will.
Are you advocating for the UK flag to be abolished?

I'm well acquainted with Irish history, thanks.

I advocate simply what I always have: BRITAIN GET THE FCUK OUT OF IRELAND, and anywhere else she has no right being in. Then, and only then, might her flag be harmless.

Do you advocate Poland get the f**k out of Germany? There are some Germans who think what is currently the eastern part of Poland should still be in Germany - it has only been Polish since 1945.

Similarly, part of what was formerly Poland is now in Ukraine.

East Prussia, which was German, is part of Russia these days.

You need a better strategy than just telling Britain to "get the fook out", because that isn't going to work, especially as a majority of people in the six counties are not of your opinion.

Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 20, 2017, 12:34:38 PM
That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.

That you don't find objectionable the flag of a country that still occupies part of your own, and which has a reprehensible overseas history to this day with ill-starred military excursions in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc., being simply the latest instalment is your choice; and it's also the prerogative of some of us more directly affected to take an alternative position.
Of course it's your prerogative.

But are you objecting to the legitimacy of the UK flag as the flag of an internationally recognised nation state or denying the right of anybody in the UK to fly it should they so wish?

That you find the Butcher's Apron to be totally innocuous, quite frankly, astonishes me. Have you no conception of the history of the British Empire, from when she first asserted herself on Bannow Bay, in Wexford, until the present day, and the blood that has been ruptured with every imperial adventure, seriously? It''s every bit as offensive to me, though I do appreciate that most adherents are blindly and blithely ignorant of the gory history that inevitably accompanies that rag, and you might not be so conciliatory towards it were you forced to face it daily, AGAINST your will.
Are you advocating for the UK flag to be abolished?

I'm well acquainted with Irish history, thanks.

I advocate simply what I always have: BRITAIN GET THE FCUK OUT OF IRELAND, and anywhere else she has no right being in. Then, and only then, might her flag be harmless.

Do you advocate Poland get the f**k out of Germany? There are some Germans who think what is currently the eastern part of Poland should still be in Germany - it has only been Polish since 1945.

Similarly, part of what was formerly Poland is now in Ukraine.

East Prussia, which was German, is part of Russia these days.

You need a better strategy than just telling Britain to "get the fook out", because that isn't going to work, especially as a majority of people in the six counties are not of your opinion.

Are you really so contemptuous of your very own history? Your Straw Men have no place here, Ireland's integrity geographically does not bear comparison with the melting-pot of mainland Europe, though that you cite them by way of reference explains a lot.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 20, 2017, 12:39:02 PM
That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.

That you don't find objectionable the flag of a country that still occupies part of your own, and which has a reprehensible overseas history to this day with ill-starred military excursions in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc., being simply the latest instalment is your choice; and it's also the prerogative of some of us more directly affected to take an alternative position.
Of course it's your prerogative.

But are you objecting to the legitimacy of the UK flag as the flag of an internationally recognised nation state or denying the right of anybody in the UK to fly it should they so wish?

That you find the Butcher's Apron to be totally innocuous, quite frankly, astonishes me. Have you no conception of the history of the British Empire, from when she first asserted herself on Bannow Bay, in Wexford, until the present day, and the blood that has been ruptured with every imperial adventure, seriously? It''s every bit as offensive to me, though I do appreciate that most adherents are blindly and blithely ignorant of the gory history that inevitably accompanies that rag, and you might not be so conciliatory towards it were you forced to face it daily, AGAINST your will.
Are you advocating for the UK flag to be abolished?

I'm well acquainted with Irish history, thanks.

I advocate simply what I always have: BRITAIN GET THE FCUK OUT OF IRELAND, and anywhere else she has no right being in. Then, and only then, might her flag be harmless.

Do you advocate Poland get the f**k out of Germany? There are some Germans who think what is currently the eastern part of Poland should still be in Germany - it has only been Polish since 1945.

Similarly, part of what was formerly Poland is now in Ukraine.

East Prussia, which was German, is part of Russia these days.

You need a better strategy than just telling Britain to "get the fook out", because that isn't going to work, especially as a majority of people in the six counties are not of your opinion.

Are you really so contemptuous of your very own history? Your Straw Men have no place here, Ireland's integrity geographically does not bear comparison with the melting-pot of mainland Europe, though that you cite them by way of reference explains a lot.
I know my history, mate.

I support a united Ireland but I know that attitudes like yours aren't going to advance anybody anywhere.



Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 20, 2017, 12:48:57 PM
If you were sensitive to history you could not, under any current circumstances, see the Union Flag as innocuous. Just not possible.

Nor will I take 'advice' from you or your confreres re reunification -- unlike yourself, I'd say, I mix and fraternise regularly with the 'other side', and am well attuned.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Hardy on August 20, 2017, 01:18:57 PM
I have a Cork person in my extended family. He doesn't bring confederate flags to matches but if he tried to, I'd tell him to cop himself on and, if necessary, explain to him what the flag symbolises these days. And if he still insisted, I'd tell him he could stand on his own at the match.

But Fear, I need your advice. There are two English people in my extended family. When Ireland next play England in Dublin, am I to tell them that I find their flag offensive and they should leave it at home or I'm not going to any match with them?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 20, 2017, 01:25:06 PM
Hardy, the English flag, the St George's is fooking grand, as they well know themselves. And as they equally know, the Butcher's Apron is not, nor has it ever been, an 'English' flag.

Sincerely hoping that answers your kind query, yours, FóSB.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: longballin on August 20, 2017, 01:39:39 PM
It was a white flag Cork brought to Croke Park last week..  ::)
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Hardy on August 20, 2017, 01:54:11 PM
Hardy, the English flag, the St George's is fooking grand, as they well know themselves. And as they equally know, the Butcher's Apron is not, nor has it ever been, an 'English' flag.

Sincerely hoping that answers your kind query, yours, FóSB.

Sorry, I'm even more confused now. The English flag often co-opted by the National Front, among other upstanding community activists) is OK, but the Union flag is not?  My brother-in-law probably wouldn't go within an ass's roar of the NF flag, but he'd imagine he'd be grand with the flag of his sovereign country. What am I to tell him and where am I to sit/stand if he tells me if it's OK for me to take my flag* then he's f**ing well going to take his (even if his vexillology is somewhat suspect)?

* I wouldn't be taking any flag, but that's not the point.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: stew on August 20, 2017, 01:56:42 PM
The fact is, I've seen Cork fans fly it since the late 1980's, and never heard a peep about it. Now someone drew attention to it because it coincided with this Charlottesville thing, and now we are all told we should feel disgusted by it.

This is all coming from the big lads in Croke Park, the focus is on the GAA, and it's tarnishing the GAA's name. Well, those same big lads have sat back for 30 years and seen the flag flown, knowing it's significance and meanng, but it's only now they're up in arms about it. Hypocrisy, how are ye?

If things have been wrong for a while we should just let them be. Doing anything about it would risk an accusation of hypocrisy and we couldn't have that now

The sheep are told what to think by their media and they react, I have never seen anything like it, the media kick up a fuss overseas so naturally the Cork fans that have been flying a confederate flag are suddenly racists, I have never seen anything quite like peoples response to liberal media these days, the so called reporters write about a perceived issue and the sheep bleat on social media with faux outrage, which would be fine except where was their outrage before the were told they needed to be outraged?

 Catch yourselves on snowflakes, the confederate flag being flown in Croker has nothing to do with Slavery etc and everything to do with the word Rebels, no racism to see here, go find a protest to join about something else you are outraged about!

I would disagree with at least 7000 of your posts but you've hit the nail bang on the head here.

Blind squirrel and all that.

We don't have to agree, I am happy enough as long as the person who disagrees with me is honest and forthright.
Comical.  ;D

Your entire output on this forum involves looking at what your imagined bogeyman, the "liberal media", are saying, and then taking a position against anything they say.

You follow the media blindly, you get outraged when they tell you to, for example, why is the confederate flag and southern statues so repugnant to you now, why were you not outraged 2 years ago or five years ago, tge fact is you cannot think for yourself siddles!

Honesty and forthrightness aren't in your lexicon.

Show me were i have not been honezt or forthright on here!

I loathe your politics as you do mine but tbat does not make me a liar.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 20, 2017, 03:33:37 PM
Hardy, the English flag, the St George's is fooking grand, as they well know themselves. And as they equally know, the Butcher's Apron is not, nor has it ever been, an 'English' flag.

Sincerely hoping that answers your kind query, yours, FóSB.

Sorry, I'm even more confused now. The English flag often co-opted by the National Front, among other upstanding community activists) is OK, but the Union flag is not?  My brother-in-law probably wouldn't go within an ass's roar of the NF flag, but he'd imagine he'd be grand with the flag of his sovereign country. What am I to tell him and where am I to sit/stand if he tells me if it's OK for me to take my flag* then he's f**ing well going to take his (even if his vexillology is somewhat suspect)?

* I wouldn't be taking any flag, but that's not the point.

It's simple really, the Butcher's Apron is a blood soaked symbol of empire, whereas the St George's Flag, despite the Lebanese origins of the eponym, is not; if fascists lay claim, then the least your in-laws can do is to enlighten them, about the Arab origins of St George, if so minded. Regardless; there are no expansionist imperial aspirations connoted with the latter, as there most definitely are with the former.

Hoping this helps :)
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Hardy on August 20, 2017, 04:22:43 PM
OK then. Thanks for the excellent advice. I'll have to fall out with my imperialist expansionist brother-in-law. I didn't even know this about him until you told me. Thanks  for saving me and my family from the shame of such an association. I  think I'll ring him now
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Orior on August 20, 2017, 04:43:24 PM
OK then. Thanks for the excellent advice. I'll have to fall out with my imperialist expansionist brother-in-law. I didn't even know this about him until you told me. Thanks  for saving me and my family from the shame of such an association. I  think I'll ring him now

It is indeed wonderful when residents of the 26 tell residents of the 6 how to behave and what to think. The problem with giving advice is that you have no idea what it has like to live in the North. But please remember that we are not the bigoted sectarian racists that you seem to think we all are.
We work together, socialise together, inter-marry, and so on and so forth. We also have Protestant in laws, English in laws and we all get on well. But very very few of us can say we like the British fleg which flies on lampposts beside UDA flags, UVF flags, Orange Order flags, NI soccer flags.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Hardy on August 20, 2017, 04:49:08 PM
Are you talking to me? Where did I tell anyone what to think? I asked FeaR what he thought. And geography has no  bearing on logic.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 20, 2017, 05:10:08 PM
Geography and bearing on logic, disagree my oul mucker -- toxic and utterly dangerous bonfire in Sandy Row, no probs; ditto in Kensington, no fecking chance! ;)
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Hardy on August 20, 2017, 05:14:13 PM
I'm searching for the relevance to logic in your point.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 20, 2017, 05:18:50 PM
Bonfires are illogical, period. Depending on the geographical location, however, that illogicality is moot.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Hardy on August 20, 2017, 05:21:54 PM
Anyway, the B-I-L is now doing a Brexit from the family and good riddance to his expansionist imperialist arse. We're going to see if we can find a decent alt-white rebel to replace him. 
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 20, 2017, 06:37:06 PM
But very very few of us can say we like the British fleg which flies on lampposts beside UDA flags, UVF flags, Orange Order flags, NI soccer flags.
Nobody is asking you to like the flag of the UK.

Just to say it doesn't symbolise slavery like the confederate flag. Which it doesn't.

I mean, when I saw all the Union Jacks at Somalian-born Mo Farah's 5,000 metre race last week I wasn't thinking that all these people were flying them to rub it in the noses of formerly subjugated African peoples or people from Derry about what happened on Bloody Sunday.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: mrdeeds on August 20, 2017, 07:42:22 PM
Eamonn Sweeneys article today very good.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: trileacman on August 20, 2017, 08:24:26 PM
Eamonn Sweeneys article today very good.

Gist of it?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Orior on August 20, 2017, 08:29:38 PM
Why is the confederate flag all of a sudden not welcome when the Rebel county play? Is it

a) because it represents slavery?
b) because it represents white supremacy?
c) something else?

Slavery was abolished years ago. So forget it and move on.

A few hundred nutters flew the confederate flag last week. Does the flag belong to them now? No it does not. So forget it and move on.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: omaghjoe on August 20, 2017, 08:39:15 PM
A lot of symbols have a mixed or confused history. This allows current users to point to the positive history.

Not sure what the positive history of the confederate flag is that Cork fans would point to is?

Southern Identity/CUlture
Rebelliousness/Restless spirit
Wilie Nelson
Dukes of Hazard

Other emblems do each of the first 2 couplets. Other confederate flags even do that. But the flag of choice is the one that was specifically designed to rally the south to the protection of the god given supremacy of white men over all other races.

It's other uses are
A) A focal point for rednecks who continue to believe in their supremacy and
B) A fashion item for people who are ignorant in an era when information is all around them

Cork people seem to want to create a C) category i.e. People who want to copy people in category B) because copying the ignorant is a more acceptable form of ignorance

Just lift a different flag on the way out the door

You said there was nothing positive associated with it, I pointed out a few things that were.
Funnily enough for the record I was listening to this last night too...
 visitors can't see pics , please register or login

....Great stuff

Just for the record the rest of your post is a red herring so I wont indulge.

Your judgement is seriously flawed

Whats the flaws? I'm just applying your logic... Im not even sure if its my judgement.
Maybe its my musical taste you dont like?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: mrdeeds on August 20, 2017, 08:42:48 PM
Eamonn Sweeneys article today very good.

Gist of it?

Le Bron James attitude to rise of right wing movement versus Trump. Finished of talking about Confederate Flag. Asked imagine if a Black and Tans Flag was flown at a US Basketball game and defended as a bit of craic.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: mrdeeds on August 20, 2017, 08:47:55 PM
Eamonn Sweeneys article today very good.

Gist of it?

Le Bron James attitude to rise of right wing movement versus Trump. Finished of talking about Confederate Flag. Asked imagine if a Black and Tans Flag was flown at a US Basketball game and defended as a bit of craic.

http://m.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/american-sports/eamonn-sweeney-we-cant-sit-on-the-fence-any-longer-36049202.html

Link here. He writes great articles.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 20, 2017, 09:26:32 PM
From today's Irish Times letters page:

Sir, – If Cork fans want to fly the Confederate battle flag, that is their choice. If, as some may claim, it is a harmless flag, in the context, and is only used for its colours, well, there is another flag to hand that they may use that contains the same red, white and blue, ie the British flag.

No takers? I didn’t think so, given the reputation of the Tans in Cork. Well, now they know what “offensive” means. – Yours, etc,

GEARÓID Ó LOINGSIGH,
Calle,
Bogotá,
Colombia.

I'd say the Confederate flag being used by Cork fans is a symbol of secession from the Union.
It's probably more about 'the people's republic of Cork' than anything else.
To suggest it could be replaced with the Union Jack is a silly cheap shot.
The Union Jack would be less offensive.

Less offensive to who
Less offensive to anybody who recognises international law as it's an internationally recognised flag of an internationally recognised nation state which doesn't impose slavery.

I'd find it about as offensive as I would hearing God Save the Queen played at Croke Park, and I didn't find that offensive.

The British empire imposed slavery for many many years. That flag would have been seen by many as a flag of slavery. It is every bit as offensive as the 'confederate' flag. It being the flag of an internationally recognised state doesn't change that

The British state did many bad things. The Irish state did many bad things. Probably any state that has been around for long has done bad things. But they have all done good things also. The confederate states were banded together for one thing. Something repulsive. Something to distance yourself from

I don't disagree with that. I ain't defending the flyers not of it or the flag itself. I used to love it. I was a huge dukes of hazard fan. I had the car. A Stetson with that flag on it. A poster. I had a Pantera tshirt with it on it also. When I started taking an interest in history and politics alongside of Ireland and learned what that flag was basically all about I never wore that tshirt again. I had already outgrown the dukes by that stage. As I have said previously, if the southern states are removing it then it's time for it to be consigned to a museum
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 20, 2017, 09:30:27 PM
From today's Irish Times letters page:

Sir, – If Cork fans want to fly the Confederate battle flag, that is their choice. If, as some may claim, it is a harmless flag, in the context, and is only used for its colours, well, there is another flag to hand that they may use that contains the same red, white and blue, ie the British flag.

No takers? I didn’t think so, given the reputation of the Tans in Cork. Well, now they know what “offensive” means. – Yours, etc,

GEARÓID Ó LOINGSIGH,
Calle,
Bogotá,
Colombia.

I'd say the Confederate flag being used by Cork fans is a symbol of secession from the Union.
It's probably more about 'the people's republic of Cork' than anything else.
To suggest it could be replaced with the Union Jack is a silly cheap shot.
The Union Jack would be less offensive.

Less offensive to who
Less offensive to anybody who recognises international law as it's an internationally recognised flag of an internationally recognised nation state which doesn't impose slavery.

I'd find it about as offensive as I would hearing God Save the Queen played at Croke Park, and I didn't find that offensive.

The British empire imposed slavery for many many years. That flag would have been seen by many as a flag of slavery. It is every bit as offensive as the 'confederate' flag. It being the flag of an internationally recognised state doesn't change that
It's very simple.

The Union Jack does not represent slavery. It's the current flag of an internationally recognised nation state which does not impose slavery.

That you find it offensive is a personal matter for you.

Loads of countries had colonial empires, such as France, Spain, Germany, Belgium, Italy and Portugal. All are internationally recognised nation states which may have imposed slavery in the past, but do not currently impose slavery.

The confederate flag is completely indivisible from racism and slavery and completely indivisible from current day racism and white supremacism because it was the symbol of an entity which was set up specifically to uphold those things.

It has no other meaning except that of racism and white supremacism.

That is quite obviously not the case with the flag of the UK.

The union flag will represent a lot of things to many many people mate. It being the flag of the uk does. It make it an ok flag.
Also I'm pretty sure I've seen white supremacists wave the union flag. In fact scrap the pretty sure. I have
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: stew on August 21, 2017, 12:12:48 AM
Eamonn Sweeneys article today very good.

Gist of it?

Le Bron James attitude to rise of right wing movement versus Trump. Finished of talking about Confederate Flag. Asked imagine if a Black and Tans Flag was flown at a US Basketball game and defended as a bit of craic.

http://m.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/american-sports/eamonn-sweeney-we-cant-sit-on-the-fence-any-longer-36049202.html

Link here. He writes great articles.

Ask yourself why he did not write this magnificent piece two years ago????? I will tell you why, he is as much a conformist to the left as you are. the left wing media controls what liberals think, forms their opinions and have absolutely no integrity left.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: omaghjoe on August 21, 2017, 07:29:49 AM
That article is nothing about a load of lies and hyperbole, quite frankly irresponsible journalism and irresponsible editing from a leading national paper (sorry i forgot its the indo).
The tone and quality of the article in surmised nicely in his last paragraph about McGregor Mayweather, where he appears to suggest we should be gunning for an illeterate wife beater because CMG is now a racist that will be supported by the KKK ::)
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: vallankumous on August 21, 2017, 08:18:25 AM

So the modern day economy of Britain no longer benefits from the centuries of slave trade?

And current day slavery. The UK like Ireland and many other Countries deal in trade with Countries like Saudi, China, India etc that use slavery.
The word slave has been replaced with the word employee in many industries.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 21, 2017, 11:11:02 AM
Excellent article by Sweeney there.

It offends the right people.

Maybe he should stick to writing about the social context of sport rather than about sport itself.



Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: easytiger95 on August 21, 2017, 11:46:49 AM
Jesus

Stew, the article was about LeBron James speaking out against Trump. So, unless Sweeney had a time machine, he couldn't write the article two years ago. So either read the thing properly or don't comment on it.

Omaghjoe, the fact that Mayweather is a disgusting human being does not make CMCG any less disgusting or his race baiting comments less racist. We can debate the relative effects of sarin or anthrax, but they both still kill you. Giving CMCG a pass because he is fighting Money is primary school stuff. Two wrongs don't make a right. And CMCG is wrong.

And speaking of relativism, no one is debating the fact that if you went into a Crossmaglen pub with a Union Jack on, Tonto, you would be deeply offending people and asking for trouble. You would be doing the same if perhaps you walked into a Warrington or Guildford pub with a tricolour. Symbols like flags can both disguise and represent a multitude of sins. But there are some symbols, like the swastika and the Confederate flag, that are so associated with a foundational evil like slavery, or racism or genocide, that they should never be used by anyone.

And by the way, the Brits abolished slavery long before the Americans, and did more than most Western countries to stop the slave trade by deploying the Royal Navy against slavers and pirates across the Atlantic.



Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 21, 2017, 01:08:47 PM
Jesus

Stew, the article was about LeBron James speaking out against Trump. So, unless Sweeney had a time machine, he couldn't write the article two years ago. So either read the thing properly or don't comment on it.

Omaghjoe, the fact that Mayweather is a disgusting human being does not make CMCG any less disgusting or his race baiting comments less racist. We can debate the relative effects of sarin or anthrax, but they both still kill you. Giving CMCG a pass because he is fighting Money is primary school stuff. Two wrongs don't make a right. And CMCG is wrong.

And speaking of relativism, no one is debating the fact that if you went into a Crossmaglen pub with a Union Jack on, Tonto, you would be deeply offending people and asking for trouble. You would be doing the same if perhaps you walked into a Warrington or Guildford pub with a tricolour. Symbols like flags can both disguise and represent a multitude of sins. But there are some symbols, like the swastika and the Confederate flag, that are so associated with a foundational evil like slavery, or racism or genocide, that they should never be used by anyone.

And by the way, the Brits abolished slavery long before the Americans, and did more than most Western countries to stop the slave trade by deploying the Royal Navy against slavers and pirates across the Atlantic.

I don't disagree with your point. My point about the UJ is that it has a chequered history and will be offensive to many. Including people outside crossmaglen. The fact it is the flag of a recognised nation doesn't mean the above isn't true.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on August 21, 2017, 01:13:23 PM
Jesus

Stew, the article was about LeBron James speaking out against Trump. So, unless Sweeney had a time machine, he couldn't write the article two years ago. So either read the thing properly or don't comment on it.

Omaghjoe, the fact that Mayweather is a disgusting human being does not make CMCG any less disgusting or his race baiting comments less racist. We can debate the relative effects of sarin or anthrax, but they both still kill you. Giving CMCG a pass because he is fighting Money is primary school stuff. Two wrongs don't make a right. And CMCG is wrong.

And speaking of relativism, no one is debating the fact that if you went into a Crossmaglen pub with a Union Jack on, Tonto, you would be deeply offending people and asking for trouble. You would be doing the same if perhaps you walked into a Warrington or Guildford pub with a tricolour. Symbols like flags can both disguise and represent a multitude of sins. But there are some symbols, like the swastika and the Confederate flag, that are so associated with a foundational evil like slavery, or racism or genocide, that they should never be used by anyone.

And by the way, the Brits abolished slavery long before the Americans, and did more than most Western countries to stop the slave trade by deploying the Royal Navy against slavers and pirates across the Atlantic.

Not sure about long before - most european empires only stopped shortly before the confederacy and plenty of countries in south america, asia, africa etc continued long after the confederacy but get a free pass.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: easytiger95 on August 21, 2017, 02:29:27 PM
Slave trade abolished by Britain in 1807, backed up by Royal Navy intervention. Slavery throughout the British Empire abolished in 1833. Any last exceptions abolished in 1843 (St. Helena, the East Indian Company, Ceylon) abolished in 1843. From 1807 onwards, through naval treaties with other countries, Britain was actively seeking to destroy the slave trade and piracy. American Civil War did not start until 1861 - that is 54 years after the UK.

So, yeah, it was long before, especially considering that active attempts through court actions and legislation had begun from the 1770s onwards.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Rudi on August 21, 2017, 02:34:18 PM
Someone flying a Union flag at England/Norn Iron match - is that not offensive to atheists, given the links to the saints and christianity?

If someone brought a rainbow flag to Croke Park, is that not offensive to those opposed to gay rights/marriage?

It's all about keeping the lefties happy.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: The Iceman on August 21, 2017, 03:15:17 PM
Slave trade abolished by Britain in 1807, backed up by Royal Navy intervention. Slavery throughout the British Empire abolished in 1833. Any last exceptions abolished in 1843 (St. Helena, the East Indian Company, Ceylon) abolished in 1843. From 1807 onwards, through naval treaties with other countries, Britain was actively seeking to destroy the slave trade and piracy. American Civil War did not start until 1861 - that is 54 years after the UK.

So, yeah, it was long before, especially considering that active attempts through court actions and legislation had begun from the 1770s onwards.
The UK called it "indentured servitude" it was still slavery. Read a book called white cargo and to hell or barbados all about the slave trade that made the English rich. Perhaps thats why they were so against it - it was taking away a valuable source of income..?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on August 21, 2017, 03:23:51 PM
Slave trade abolished by Britain in 1807, backed up by Royal Navy intervention. Slavery throughout the British Empire abolished in 1833. Any last exceptions abolished in 1843 (St. Helena, the East Indian Company, Ceylon) abolished in 1843. From 1807 onwards, through naval treaties with other countries, Britain was actively seeking to destroy the slave trade and piracy. American Civil War did not start until 1861 - that is 54 years after the UK.

So, yeah, it was long before, especially considering that active attempts through court actions and legislation had begun from the 1770s onwards.

Pretty sure Britain turned a blind eye to slavery in India - the jewel in the crown around the same time at the request of the big companies of the time only becoming illegal in 1861 and after that slaves just got rebranded as labourers or servants to keep the practice going - nice
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: easytiger95 on August 21, 2017, 04:51:23 PM
Read the post. Exceptions granted for the East Indian Company from the Act of Abolition in 1833, exceptions finished in 1843.

Between 1808 and 1860, the British West African Navy seized over approx. 1600 ships of various nationalities, freeing 150,000 African slaves in the process.

Certainly, their colonial practices were terrible at various different times and places - but the official policy of the UK was far more enlightened and progressive than the American one, and far earlier in the century.

Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Main Street on August 21, 2017, 08:13:09 PM
The confederate flag was not all about support of slavery.

 It's context which also defines meaning in the english language.
For people who smoke, do they have to refrain from saying "I'd love a fag right now" or " I'd love to give up the fags"  because people on the other side of the planet who are english deficient will take offence,  those people who only understand   "fag" to be a derogative term and are too lazy /ignorant to understand that the basis of defining meaning in the english language is context. 
If context is stripped out of understanding languge, ignorance reigns and only one extreme blinkered righteous interpretation is allowable.

Afaic the langers waving the confed flag was a twist of humour and nothing to do with white supremacy, racism or slavery.
The langers also wave  other (red and white) country flags.

Knowing that fascist Trump supporters also love to wave the confed flag  with intimidation in the face of immigrants, non-rednecks etc. doesn't alter the meaning for me in regards to the langers use of the flag.

Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 21, 2017, 08:37:09 PM
Any Corkonian who didn't know what the flag meant before certainly knows about it now. If you keep on flying it knowing what it means then what does that say about you?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: omaghjoe on August 21, 2017, 08:41:06 PM
Any Corkonian who didn't know what the flag meant before certainly knows about it now. If you keep on flying it knowing what it means then what does that say about you?

That you like the Dukes of Hazard and Willie Nelon
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: omaghjoe on August 21, 2017, 08:42:13 PM
ET
IF CMG is a nab fair enuff, I agree. but the article implies that we should go for the other guy because a bunch of idiots will likely be gunning for him.
Its the same logic with this flag
Its the same logic as you shouldnt take butter on your toast cos thats what these white power morons do.

Gotta wonder if the Brits would have been so keen on it if they still had colonies. The timing would be lead you too suspect it was about keeping the independent colonies down as much as anything.
I've a Fijian Indian friend who would take your head off if you said the indenture system wasnt slavery.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Orior on August 21, 2017, 09:20:16 PM
Any Corkonian who didn't know what the flag meant before certainly knows about it now. If you keep on flying it knowing what it means then what does that say about you?

But it was never a problem until the protest in Charlottesville. It would all be forgotten next month if yous didn't keep going on about it.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 21, 2017, 09:26:03 PM

 It's context which also defines meaning in the english language.
For people who smoke, do they have to refrain from saying "I'd love a fag right now" or " I'd love to give up the fags"  because people on the other side of the planet who are english deficient will take offence,  those people who only understand   "fag" to be a derogative term and are too lazy /ignorant to understand that the basis of defining meaning in the english language is context. 
If context is stripped out of understanding languge, ignorance reigns and only one extreme blinkered righteous interpretation is allowable.



Its the same logic as you shouldnt take butter on your toast cos thats what these white power morons do.


It's actually like some posters are trying to come across as even more stupid than they already have done.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 21, 2017, 09:49:49 PM
Any Corkonian who didn't know what the flag meant before certainly knows about it now. If you keep on flying it knowing what it means then what does that say about you?

But it was never a problem until the protest in Charlottesville. It would all be forgotten next month if yous didn't keep going on about it.

Are you serious?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Main Street on August 21, 2017, 10:17:10 PM

 It's context which also defines meaning in the english language.
For people who smoke, do they have to refrain from saying "I'd love a fag right now" or " I'd love to give up the fags"  because people on the other side of the planet who are english deficient will take offence,  those people who only understand   "fag" to be a derogative term and are too lazy /ignorant to understand that the basis of defining meaning in the english language is context. 
If context is stripped out of understanding languge, ignorance reigns and only one extreme blinkered righteous interpretation is allowable.



Its the same logic as you shouldnt take butter on your toast cos thats what these white power morons do.


It's actually like some posters are trying to come across as even more stupid than they already have done.
It's actually like, actually that anyone who uses "actually" and "like" together, is as dumb as fck. As dumb as a KKK bubba redneck.

Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 21, 2017, 10:27:06 PM

 It's context which also defines meaning in the english language.
For people who smoke, do they have to refrain from saying "I'd love a fag right now" or " I'd love to give up the fags"  because people on the other side of the planet who are english deficient will take offence,  those people who only understand   "fag" to be a derogative term and are too lazy /ignorant to understand that the basis of defining meaning in the english language is context. 
If context is stripped out of understanding languge, ignorance reigns and only one extreme blinkered righteous interpretation is allowable.



Its the same logic as you shouldnt take butter on your toast cos thats what these white power morons do.


It's actually like some posters are trying to come across as even more stupid than they already have done.
It's actually like, actually that anyone who uses "actually" and "like" together, is as dumb as fck. As dumb as a KKK bubba redneck.
Exhibit A: you!
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: BennyCake on August 21, 2017, 10:39:46 PM
Any Corkonian who didn't know what the flag meant before certainly knows about it now. If you keep on flying it knowing what it means then what does that say about you?

But it was never a problem until the protest in Charlottesville. It would all be forgotten next month if yous didn't keep going on about it.

Are you serious?

He's right. Cork fans have flown that flag for 30 years without a peep.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Main Street on August 21, 2017, 11:03:44 PM

 It's context which also defines meaning in the english language.
For people who smoke, do they have to refrain from saying "I'd love a fag right now" or " I'd love to give up the fags"  because people on the other side of the planet who are english deficient will take offence,  those people who only understand   "fag" to be a derogative term and are too lazy /ignorant to understand that the basis of defining meaning in the english language is context. 
If context is stripped out of understanding languge, ignorance reigns and only one extreme blinkered righteous interpretation is allowable.



Its the same logic as you shouldnt take butter on your toast cos thats what these white power morons do.


It's actually like some posters are trying to come across as even more stupid than they already have done.
It's actually like, actually that anyone who uses "actually" and "like" together, is as dumb as fck. As dumb as a KKK bubba redneck.
Exhibit A: you!
Retort is not your thing Sid, it requires some imagination.
The langers have been flying the confed flag for decades and KKK nazis have been shoving the confed flag up the noses of civil rights supporters for decades, when did you start getting offended by langers flying the confed flag? Where and when did you express your indignation?
These KKK nazis have been engaged in all sorts of criminal terrorist activity, including murder, rape and arson for decades as a method of intimidation, when did the penny drop for you, the connection between Cork supporters and the activities of KKK nazis?
Did you not consider it worthy of your comment sometime in the last 30 years or so about langers  and the controversial confed flag?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: stew on August 22, 2017, 12:13:33 AM

 It's context which also defines meaning in the english language.
For people who smoke, do they have to refrain from saying "I'd love a fag right now" or " I'd love to give up the fags"  because people on the other side of the planet who are english deficient will take offence,  those people who only understand   "fag" to be a derogative term and are too lazy /ignorant to understand that the basis of defining meaning in the english language is context. 
If context is stripped out of understanding languge, ignorance reigns and only one extreme blinkered righteous interpretation is allowable.



Its the same logic as you shouldnt take butter on your toast cos thats what these white power morons do.


It's actually like some posters are trying to come across as even more stupid than they already have done.
It's actually like, actually that anyone who uses "actually" and "like" together, is as dumb as fck. As dumb as a KKK bubba redneck.
Exhibit A: you!
Retort is not your thing Sid, it requires some imagination.
The langers have been flying the confed flag for decades and KKK nazis have been shoving the confed flag up the noses of civil rights supporters for decades, when did you start getting offended by langers flying the confed flag? Where and when did you express your indignation?
These KKK nazis have been engaged in all sorts of criminal terrorist activity, including murder, rape and arson for decades as a method of intimidation, when did the penny drop for you, the connection between Cork supporters and the activities of KKK nazis?
Did you not consider it worthy of your comment sometime in the last 30 years or so about langers  and the controversial confed flag?

Stop it Main Street, the man is not fit to answer such questions, he is completely reactionary to his media and what they tell him, he has been offended with these flegs and statues since last Saturday after he watched his msnbc presser!

Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 22, 2017, 12:34:31 AM

 It's context which also defines meaning in the english language.
For people who smoke, do they have to refrain from saying "I'd love a fag right now" or " I'd love to give up the fags"  because people on the other side of the planet who are english deficient will take offence,  those people who only understand   "fag" to be a derogative term and are too lazy /ignorant to understand that the basis of defining meaning in the english language is context. 
If context is stripped out of understanding languge, ignorance reigns and only one extreme blinkered righteous interpretation is allowable.



Its the same logic as you shouldnt take butter on your toast cos thats what these white power morons do.


It's actually like some posters are trying to come across as even more stupid than they already have done.
It's actually like, actually that anyone who uses "actually" and "like" together, is as dumb as fck. As dumb as a KKK bubba redneck.
Exhibit A: you!
Retort is not your thing Sid, it requires some imagination.


The langers have been flying the confed flag for decades and KKK nazis have been shoving the confed flag up the noses of civil rights supporters for decades, when did you start getting offended by langers flying the confed flag? Where and when did you express your indignation?
These KKK nazis have been engaged in all sorts of criminal terrorist activity, including murder, rape and arson for decades as a method of intimidation, when did the penny drop for you, the connection between Cork supporters and the activities of KKK nazis?
Did you not consider it worthy of your comment sometime in the last 30 years or so about langers  and the controversial confed flag?
Oh, believe me, retort is very much my thing, but one doesn't have to utilise any imagination when engaging with a dullard.

Just a quick question: when, if ever, do you think the use of n word will become unacceptable, given that you so obviously believe it is acceptable today?

Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 22, 2017, 08:52:00 AM

 It's context which also defines meaning in the english language.
For people who smoke, do they have to refrain from saying "I'd love a fag right now" or " I'd love to give up the fags"  because people on the other side of the planet who are english deficient will take offence,  those people who only understand   "fag" to be a derogative term and are too lazy /ignorant to understand that the basis of defining meaning in the english language is context. 
If context is stripped out of understanding languge, ignorance reigns and only one extreme blinkered righteous interpretation is allowable.



Its the same logic as you shouldnt take butter on your toast cos thats what these white power morons do.


It's actually like some posters are trying to come across as even more stupid than they already have done.
It's actually like, actually that anyone who uses "actually" and "like" together, is as dumb as fck. As dumb as a KKK bubba redneck.
Exhibit A: you!
Retort is not your thing Sid, it requires some imagination.


The langers have been flying the confed flag for decades and KKK nazis have been shoving the confed flag up the noses of civil rights supporters for decades, when did you start getting offended by langers flying the confed flag? Where and when did you express your indignation?
These KKK nazis have been engaged in all sorts of criminal terrorist activity, including murder, rape and arson for decades as a method of intimidation, when did the penny drop for you, the connection between Cork supporters and the activities of KKK nazis?
Did you not consider it worthy of your comment sometime in the last 30 years or so about langers  and the controversial confed flag?
Oh, believe me, retort is very much my thing, but one doesn't have to utilise any imagination when engaging with a dullard.

Just a quick question: when, if ever, do you think the use of n word will become unacceptable, given that you so obviously believe it is acceptable today?

So you've no answer to his question?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 22, 2017, 04:16:33 PM
Interesting piece here about how most of these confederate monuments went up during the Jim Crow era and the Civil Rights campaign:

https://www.facebook.com/MicMedia/videos/1620753744614076/ (https://www.facebook.com/MicMedia/videos/1620753744614076/)
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 22, 2017, 04:24:13 PM
Interesting piece here about how most of these confederate monuments went up during the Jim Crow era and the Civil Rights campaign:

https://www.facebook.com/MicMedia/videos/1620753744614076/ (https://www.facebook.com/MicMedia/videos/1620753744614076/)
The monuments' construction was as shit as every argument to keep them.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Main Street on August 23, 2017, 01:29:10 AM

 It's context which also defines meaning in the english language.
For people who smoke, do they have to refrain from saying "I'd love a fag right now" or " I'd love to give up the fags"  because people on the other side of the planet who are english deficient will take offence,  those people who only understand   "fag" to be a derogative term and are too lazy /ignorant to understand that the basis of defining meaning in the english language is context. 
If context is stripped out of understanding languge, ignorance reigns and only one extreme blinkered righteous interpretation is allowable.



Its the same logic as you shouldnt take butter on your toast cos thats what these white power morons do.


It's actually like some posters are trying to come across as even more stupid than they already have done.
It's actually like, actually that anyone who uses "actually" and "like" together, is as dumb as fck. As dumb as a KKK bubba redneck.
Exhibit A: you!
Retort is not your thing Sid, it requires some imagination.


The langers have been flying the confed flag for decades and KKK nazis have been shoving the confed flag up the noses of civil rights supporters for decades, when did you start getting offended by langers flying the confed flag? Where and when did you express your indignation?
These KKK nazis have been engaged in all sorts of criminal terrorist activity, including murder, rape and arson for decades as a method of intimidation, when did the penny drop for you, the connection between Cork supporters and the activities of KKK nazis?
Did you not consider it worthy of your comment sometime in the last 30 years or so about langers  and the controversial confed flag?
Oh, believe me, retort is very much my thing, but one doesn't have to utilise any imagination when engaging with a dullard.

Just a quick question: when, if ever, do you think the use of n word will become unacceptable, given that you so obviously believe it is acceptable today?

So you've no answer to his question?
Silent Sid.
He probably never gave the langers and their rebel flag a moments thought before coming out last weekend as a reborn self appointed champion of righteous and indignant keyboard anti-racism.





Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 26, 2017, 12:42:35 AM
Silent Sid.
He probably never gave the langers and their rebel flag a moments thought before coming out last weekend as a reborn self appointed champion of righteous and indignant keyboard anti-racism.

And how did you produce that righteous and indignant post? Did you use a keyboard?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on August 26, 2017, 01:09:55 AM

 It's context which also defines meaning in the english language.
For people who smoke, do they have to refrain from saying "I'd love a fag right now" or " I'd love to give up the fags"  because people on the other side of the planet who are english deficient will take offence,  those people who only understand   "fag" to be a derogative term and are too lazy /ignorant to understand that the basis of defining meaning in the english language is context. 
If context is stripped out of understanding languge, ignorance reigns and only one extreme blinkered righteous interpretation is allowable.



Its the same logic as you shouldnt take butter on your toast cos thats what these white power morons do.


It's actually like some posters are trying to come across as even more stupid than they already have done.
It's actually like, actually that anyone who uses "actually" and "like" together, is as dumb as fck. As dumb as a KKK bubba redneck.
Exhibit A: you!
Retort is not your thing Sid, it requires some imagination.


The langers have been flying the confed flag for decades and KKK nazis have been shoving the confed flag up the noses of civil rights supporters for decades, when did you start getting offended by langers flying the confed flag? Where and when did you express your indignation?
These KKK nazis have been engaged in all sorts of criminal terrorist activity, including murder, rape and arson for decades as a method of intimidation, when did the penny drop for you, the connection between Cork supporters and the activities of KKK nazis?
Did you not consider it worthy of your comment sometime in the last 30 years or so about langers  and the controversial confed flag?
Oh, believe me, retort is very much my thing, but one doesn't have to utilise any imagination when engaging with a dullard.

Just a quick question: when, if ever, do you think the use of n word will become unacceptable, given that you so obviously believe it is acceptable today?

So you've no answer to his question?
Silent Sid.
He probably never gave the langers and their rebel flag a moments thought before coming out last weekend as a reborn self appointed champion of righteous and indignant keyboard anti-racism.
I'm presuming you chose the user name "Main Street" as it symbolises the gap between your ears, mate.

You might get back to me and answer the question at hand.

You've had a lot of time.

I've bolded it to make it easy for you.

And believe me, you need things made easy.


Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: mrhardyannual on August 26, 2017, 01:55:54 AM
Hero Or Villain   

James Mitchel (Young Irelander & White Supremacist)

He claimed that the Irish people had a distinct and indefeasible right to their country, and to all the moral and material wealth and resources thereof, to possess, to govern the same, for their own use, maintenance, comfort and honour, as a distinct Sovereign State; that it was within their power and their manifest duty to make good and exercise that right; that the life of one peasant was as precious as the life of one nobleman or gentleman; that the property of the farmers and labourers of Ireland was as sacred as the property of all the noblemen and gentlemen in Ireland, and also immeasurably more valuable; that the Tenant Right custom should be extended to all Ulster, and adopted and enforced by common consent in the other three provinces; that every man who paid taxes should have an equal voice with every other man in the government of the State and the outlay of those taxes; that no man at present had any 'legal' rights or claim to the protection of any law and that all 'legal' and constitutional agitation in Ireland was a delusion; that every freeman, and every man who desired to become free, ought to have arms, and to practise the use of them; that no 'combination of classes' in Ireland was desirable, just, or possible save on the terms of the rights of the industrious classes being acknowledged and secured; and that no good thing could come from the English Parliament or the English Government
 He claimed that slaves in the southern United States were better cared for and fed than Irish cottiers, or industrial workers in English cities like Manchester. He was explicitly racist, saying negroes were "an innately inferior people"[20] and opining "We deny that it is a crime, or a wrong, or even a peccadillo to hold slaves, to buy slaves, to keep slaves to their work by flogging or other needful correction. We wish we had a good plantation well-stocked with healthy negroes in Alabama."[21] In correspondence with his good friend John Kenyon he states that he wanted to make the people of the US "proud and fond of [slavery] as a national institution, and advocate its extension by re-opening the trade in Negroes."[22] He claimed that slavery was inherently moral and "good in itself" and stated that he "promotes it for its own sake."[ 

He equated the Confederacy with Ireland, claiming that both were agricultural economies tied into an unjust union. The Union States and England were "..the commercial, manufacturing and money-broking power ... greedy, grabbing, griping and grovelling".
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: tonto1888 on August 26, 2017, 02:40:14 PM

 It's context which also defines meaning in the english language.
For people who smoke, do they have to refrain from saying "I'd love a fag right now" or " I'd love to give up the fags"  because people on the other side of the planet who are english deficient will take offence,  those people who only understand   "fag" to be a derogative term and are too lazy /ignorant to understand that the basis of defining meaning in the english language is context. 
If context is stripped out of understanding languge, ignorance reigns and only one extreme blinkered righteous interpretation is allowable.



Its the same logic as you shouldnt take butter on your toast cos thats what these white power morons do.


It's actually like some posters are trying to come across as even more stupid than they already have done.
It's actually like, actually that anyone who uses "actually" and "like" together, is as dumb as fck. As dumb as a KKK bubba redneck.
Exhibit A: you!
Retort is not your thing Sid, it requires some imagination.


The langers have been flying the confed flag for decades and KKK nazis have been shoving the confed flag up the noses of civil rights supporters for decades, when did you start getting offended by langers flying the confed flag? Where and when did you express your indignation?
These KKK nazis have been engaged in all sorts of criminal terrorist activity, including murder, rape and arson for decades as a method of intimidation, when did the penny drop for you, the connection between Cork supporters and the activities of KKK nazis?
Did you not consider it worthy of your comment sometime in the last 30 years or so about langers  and the controversial confed flag?
Oh, believe me, retort is very much my thing, but one doesn't have to utilise any imagination when engaging with a dullard.

Just a quick question: when, if ever, do you think the use of n word will become unacceptable, given that you so obviously believe it is acceptable today?

So you've no answer to his question?
Silent Sid.
He probably never gave the langers and their rebel flag a moments thought before coming out last weekend as a reborn self appointed champion of righteous and indignant keyboard anti-racism.
I'm presuming you chose the user name "Main Street" as it symbolises the gap between your ears, mate.

You might get back to me and answer the question at hand.

You've had a lot of time.

I've bolded it to make it easy for you.

And believe me, you need things made easy.

Still no answer to the questions out to you though. Trying to muddy the waters eh?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: BennyCake on September 11, 2017, 07:44:27 PM
Tony Keady, Laochra Gael on just now. Footage of 1986 hurling final. Four Confederates flags on the Hill.

Just saying.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Main Street on September 12, 2017, 07:39:21 PM
That's over 3 decades before Sid decided to ride the high horse of hump.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on September 12, 2017, 09:34:50 PM
That's over 3 decades before Sid decided to ride the high horse of hump.
And three decades before you were still considering the n word acceptable...
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Orior on September 12, 2017, 11:21:55 PM
That's over 3 decades before Sid decided to ride the high horse of hump.
And three decades before you were still considering the n word acceptable...

That word is used in every Samuel L Jackson film. Every one of his films. Is he bad?
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: stew on September 13, 2017, 12:20:29 AM

 It's context which also defines meaning in the english language.
For people who smoke, do they have to refrain from saying "I'd love a fag right now" or " I'd love to give up the fags"  because people on the other side of the planet who are english deficient will take offence,  those people who only understand   "fag" to be a derogative term and are too lazy /ignorant to understand that the basis of defining meaning in the english language is context. 
If context is stripped out of understanding languge, ignorance reigns and only one extreme blinkered righteous interpretation is allowable.



Its the same logic as you shouldnt take butter on your toast cos thats what these white power morons do.


It's actually like some posters are trying to come across as even more stupid than they already have done.
It's actually like, actually that anyone who uses "actually" and "like" together, is as dumb as fck. As dumb as a KKK bubba redneck.
Exhibit A: you!
Retort is not your thing Sid, it requires some imagination.


The langers have been flying the confed flag for decades and KKK nazis have been shoving the confed flag up the noses of civil rights supporters for decades, when did you start getting offended by langers flying the confed flag? Where and when did you express your indignation?
These KKK nazis have been engaged in all sorts of criminal terrorist activity, including murder, rape and arson for decades as a method of intimidation, when did the penny drop for you, the connection between Cork supporters and the activities of KKK nazis?
Did you not consider it worthy of your comment sometime in the last 30 years or so about langers  and the controversial confed flag?
Oh, believe me, retort is very much my thing, but one doesn't have to utilise any imagination when engaging with a dullard.

Just a quick question: when, if ever, do you think the use of n word will become unacceptable, given that you so obviously believe it is acceptable today?

So you've no answer to his question?
Silent Sid.
He probably never gave the langers and their rebel flag a moments thought before coming out last weekend as a reborn self appointed champion of righteous and indignant keyboard anti-racism.
I'm presuming you chose the user name "Main Street" as it symbolises the gap between your ears, mate.

You might get back to me and answer the question at hand.

You've had a lot of time.

I've bolded it to make it easy for you.

And believe me, you need things made easy.

Sidley I know neither of you, that said, I would take main street all day long and twice on Sunday over you kid, no disrespect, you are simply a boring bandwagon jumper with no imagination, a snowflake internet warrior if you will, go away son, please!
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on September 13, 2017, 12:37:17 AM
That's over 3 decades before Sid decided to ride the high horse of hump.
And three decades before you were still considering the n word acceptable...

That word is used in every Samuel L Jackson film. Every one of his films. Is he bad?
Are you black?

You're an Armagh GAA man, aren't you? Now unless you're Joey Cunningham, I'd venture that it's unlikely you are.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: stew on September 13, 2017, 12:49:07 AM
That's over 3 decades before Sid decided to ride the high horse of hump.
And three decades before you were still considering the n word acceptable...

That word is used in every Samuel L Jackson film. Every one of his films. Is he bad?
Are you black?

You're an Armagh GAA man, aren't you? Now unless you're Joey Cunningham, I'd venture that it's unlikely you are.

So black men can use it, call each other it but woe betide a white man uses the n word! Double standard if ever there was one sidley.


Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: sid waddell on September 13, 2017, 01:08:08 AM
That's over 3 decades before Sid decided to ride the high horse of hump.
And three decades before you were still considering the n word acceptable...

That word is used in every Samuel L Jackson film. Every one of his films. Is he bad?
Are you black?

You're an Armagh GAA man, aren't you? Now unless you're Joey Cunningham, I'd venture that it's unlikely you are.

So black men can use it, call each other it but woe betide a white man uses the n word! Double standard if ever there was one sidley.
Black women can use it too. And black transgender women. And black transgender men.

But definitely not white men.

Try out that double standard and see how you get on, you clearly fancy it.



Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 13, 2017, 02:42:29 AM
This kind of double standard is fairly common.  I've gotten used to Irish guys in NY referring to Irish people as Paddys.  Damien Dempsey does it too.  But if a British Tory Party member used that term to refer to us....

Another example is how the gay community co-opted the word 'queer' (and indeed 'gay') to refer to themselves when such terms had originally been derogatory terms used by straight people to refer to them.  There would have been a time (maybe that time is still now) when members of this community would have regarded it as OK for themselves to use these terms, but not OK for non-gays to use.

 
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: J70 on September 13, 2017, 01:06:21 PM
That's over 3 decades before Sid decided to ride the high horse of hump.
And three decades before you were still considering the n word acceptable...

That word is used in every Samuel L Jackson film. Every one of his films. Is he bad?
Are you black?

You're an Armagh GAA man, aren't you? Now unless you're Joey Cunningham, I'd venture that it's unlikely you are.

So black men can use it, call each other it but woe betide a white man uses the n word! Double standard if ever there was one sidley.

Do you REALLY not understand the difference?? ::)
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: nrico2006 on September 13, 2017, 01:19:11 PM
There are definite double standards applied.  Imagine the outcry if there was a MOWO ceremony every year?  Or if Joe Calzaghe had claimed there was no way he would get beat by a black man.

I remember a few years ago in the US there was a tv show where on in the US with a black female presenter (Sherri Shepherd), Whoopi Goldberg and Barbara Walters.  There were reporting on the presidential nominee Rick Perry and a hunting camp he leased, on which the grounds had a rock with the phrase "Ni--erhead" painted on it.

They were talking about the sign and both Goldberg and Shepherd said the word numerous times, but when Walters mentioned the word Shepherd basically jarred her and said that it was ok for her and Goldberg to use it but not for Walters etc etc.  Shepherd went on to make a huge fuss over it.  Talk about double standards.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: vallankumous on September 13, 2017, 02:08:42 PM
There are definite double standards applied.  Imagine the outcry if there was a MOWO ceremony every year?  Or if Joe Calzaghe had claimed there was no way he would get beat by a black man.

I remember a few years ago in the US there was a tv show where on in the US with a black female presenter (Sherri Shepherd), Whoopi Goldberg and Barbara Walters.  There were reporting on the presidential nominee Rick Perry and a hunting camp he leased, on which the grounds had a rock with the phrase "Ni--erhead" painted on it.

They were talking about the sign and both Goldberg and Shepherd said the word numerous times, but when Walters mentioned the word Shepherd basically jarred her and said that it was ok for her and Goldberg to use it but not for Walters etc etc.  Shepherd went on to make a huge fuss over it.  Talk about double standards.

Woopie Goldberg? FFS
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: vallankumous on September 13, 2017, 02:09:18 PM
This kind of double standard is fairly common.  I've gotten used to Irish guys in NY referring to Irish people as Paddys.  Damien Dempsey does it too.  But if a British Tory Party member used that term to refer to us....

Another example is how the gay community co-opted the word 'queer' (and indeed 'gay') to refer to themselves when such terms had originally been derogatory terms used by straight people to refer to them.  There would have been a time (maybe that time is still now) when members of this community would have regarded it as OK for themselves to use these terms, but not OK for non-gays to use.

Language evolves every day.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: BennyCake on September 13, 2017, 04:29:27 PM
Current posts remind me of statements from some foreigner claiming the Irish are a bunch of drinking, fighting, Irish dancing, red-headed, leprachaun hat-wearing nuts, and the Irish getting upset over it. Come St Patrick's Day, that's exactly what the Irish do.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 13, 2017, 10:23:46 PM
This kind of double standard is fairly common.  I've gotten used to Irish guys in NY referring to Irish people as Paddys.  Damien Dempsey does it too.  But if a British Tory Party member used that term to refer to us....

Another example is how the gay community co-opted the word 'queer' (and indeed 'gay') to refer to themselves when such terms had originally been derogatory terms used by straight people to refer to them.  There would have been a time (maybe that time is still now) when members of this community would have regarded it as OK for themselves to use these terms, but not OK for non-gays to use.

Language evolves every day.

Yep.
Title: Re: Cork fans flying the confederate flag
Post by: vallankumous on September 14, 2017, 10:54:57 AM


Yep.
:D