Would you be in favour of a second tier?

Started by sligoman2, June 26, 2017, 12:34:12 PM

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Would you be in favour of an alternative championship for Div 3 and 4 with winners and runners up rejoining the other championship.

Yes
136 (52.7%)
No
104 (40.3%)
Undecided
18 (7%)

Total Members Voted: 258

lenny

Quote from: general_lee on May 22, 2019, 10:16:52 PM
Just leave it as it is and start at focusing on making the weaker counties competitive. Fermanagh is a prime example. Made up of mostly water and the rest Protestants, they still manage to get their house in order and play to their potential.

lol Fermanagh have literally never won anything in their history. They've been in 3 ulster championship finals in their 100 years plus. If they were playing in an intermediate championship at the moment they would have a realistic chance of winning it. In the past they'd have ahd a good chance of winning junior championships. The current system does counties outside the top 5 or 6 teams no favours at all.

Esmarelda

Quote from: lenny on May 23, 2019, 07:35:10 AM
Quote from: general_lee on May 22, 2019, 10:16:52 PM
Just leave it as it is and start at focusing on making the weaker counties competitive. Fermanagh is a prime example. Made up of mostly water and the rest Protestants, they still manage to get their house in order and play to their potential.

lol Fermanagh have literally never won anything in their history. They've been in 3 ulster championship finals in their 100 years plus. If they were playing in an intermediate championship at the moment they would have a realistic chance of winning it. In the past they'd have ahd a good chance of winning junior championships. The current system does counties outside the top 5 or 6 teams no favours at all.
So maybe a race for Sam made up of six teams. Could you imagine the excitement? Wall to wall coverage on the telly of the big six playing each other.

Rossfan

You already have the "Big 8s" or "Soooooper 8" ale Marty M.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Keyser soze

Tiering is just another step on the road to professionalism for a select number of teams. 

Rossfan

Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

lenny

Quote from: Esmarelda on May 23, 2019, 09:32:25 AM
Quote from: lenny on May 23, 2019, 07:35:10 AM
Quote from: general_lee on May 22, 2019, 10:16:52 PM
Just leave it as it is and start at focusing on making the weaker counties competitive. Fermanagh is a prime example. Made up of mostly water and the rest Protestants, they still manage to get their house in order and play to their potential.

lol Fermanagh have literally never won anything in their history. They've been in 3 ulster championship finals in their 100 years plus. If they were playing in an intermediate championship at the moment they would have a realistic chance of winning it. In the past they'd have ahd a good chance of winning junior championships. The current system does counties outside the top 5 or 6 teams no favours at all.
So maybe a race for Sam made up of six teams. Could you imagine the excitement? Wall to wall coverage on the telly of the big six playing each other.

The senior championship shold have around 8 teams. The intermediate championship could have 12 teams and the junior championship 12 teams. That way the super 8 could start without all the mismatches before. The other teams could play in a championship which gives them a meaningful and realistic chance to win.

Keyser soze

Quote from: lenny on May 23, 2019, 10:33:36 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on May 23, 2019, 09:32:25 AM
Quote from: lenny on May 23, 2019, 07:35:10 AM
Quote from: general_lee on May 22, 2019, 10:16:52 PM
Just leave it as it is and start at focusing on making the weaker counties competitive. Fermanagh is a prime example. Made up of mostly water and the rest Protestants, they still manage to get their house in order and play to their potential.

lol Fermanagh have literally never won anything in their history. They've been in 3 ulster championship finals in their 100 years plus. If they were playing in an intermediate championship at the moment they would have a realistic chance of winning it. In the past they'd have ahd a good chance of winning junior championships. The current system does counties outside the top 5 or 6 teams no favours at all.
So maybe a race for Sam made up of six teams. Could you imagine the excitement? Wall to wall coverage on the telly of the big six playing each other.

The senior championship shold have around 8 teams. The intermediate championship could have 12 teams and the junior championship 12 teams. That way the super 8 could start without all the mismatches before. The other teams could play in a championship which gives them a meaningful and realistic chance to win.

There will be, at the very least, 4 teams in Super 8 who have no meaningful and realistic chance of winning. Same forat least half the teams in intermediate and there will be some almighty pastings handed out to the lower end of the Junior.

BennyCake

Quote from: lenny on May 23, 2019, 10:33:36 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on May 23, 2019, 09:32:25 AM
Quote from: lenny on May 23, 2019, 07:35:10 AM
Quote from: general_lee on May 22, 2019, 10:16:52 PM
Just leave it as it is and start at focusing on making the weaker counties competitive. Fermanagh is a prime example. Made up of mostly water and the rest Protestants, they still manage to get their house in order and play to their potential.

lol Fermanagh have literally never won anything in their history. They've been in 3 ulster championship finals in their 100 years plus. If they were playing in an intermediate championship at the moment they would have a realistic chance of winning it. In the past they'd have ahd a good chance of winning junior championships. The current system does counties outside the top 5 or 6 teams no favours at all.
So maybe a race for Sam made up of six teams. Could you imagine the excitement? Wall to wall coverage on the telly of the big six playing each other.

The senior championship shold have around 8 teams. The intermediate championship could have 12 teams and the junior championship 12 teams. That way the super 8 could start without all the mismatches before. The other teams could play in a championship which gives them a meaningful and realistic chance to win.

You talk about mismatches. The Super 8's last year involved the top 8 teams. And results involved two near 20 point defeats for Roscommon.

The football c'ship is monotonous as it is with constant fixtures involving Mayo Dublin Kerry Tyrone Galway. Limiting Sam to 8 teams will make the senior c'ship an absolute farce.

Rossfan

They've limited Liam to 10 +2 teams and the excitement levels are gone through the roof.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Maiden1

#534
Quote from: lenny on May 23, 2019, 10:33:36 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on May 23, 2019, 09:32:25 AM
Quote from: lenny on May 23, 2019, 07:35:10 AM
Quote from: general_lee on May 22, 2019, 10:16:52 PM
Just leave it as it is and start at focusing on making the weaker counties competitive. Fermanagh is a prime example. Made up of mostly water and the rest Protestants, they still manage to get their house in order and play to their potential.

lol Fermanagh have literally never won anything in their history. They've been in 3 ulster championship finals in their 100 years plus. If they were playing in an intermediate championship at the moment they would have a realistic chance of winning it. In the past they'd have ahd a good chance of winning junior championships. The current system does counties outside the top 5 or 6 teams no favours at all.
So maybe a race for Sam made up of six teams. Could you imagine the excitement? Wall to wall coverage on the telly of the big six playing each other.

The senior championship shold have around 8 teams. The intermediate championship could have 12 teams and the junior championship 12 teams. That way the super 8 could start without all the mismatches before. The other teams could play in a championship which gives them a meaningful and realistic chance to win.
They could break it into groups of 8 make it senior, intermediate, junior and junior B.  The top 8 teams could play each team once in a sort of round robin and then the 2 that finish with the most points play in the final.  The bottom 2 get relegated to the tier below for the following year and the top 2 from the next best teams could get promoted to the division championship above the following year.
There are no proofs, only opinions.

oakleaflad

Quote from: Rossfan on May 23, 2019, 11:08:11 AM
They've limited Liam to 10 +2 teams and the excitement levels are gone through the roof.
That excitement is to do with the number of realistically possible winners, not the total number of teams.

From the Bunker

All this talk of different tiers in Hurling as if this is something new! Hurling has always been tiered. There are up to 15 counties that I've never seen play a game in the McCarthy Cup.

Owenmoresider

Quote from: Rossfan on May 23, 2019, 11:08:11 AM
They've limited Liam to 10 +2 teams and the excitement levels are gone through the roof.
Because the competitiveness level within the top table in hurling as is even as it has probably ever been. 9 of the 10 teams can feel capable of beating whatever opposition they face, and you really couldn't confidently say who'll come out on top come August. When the new system came into place last year it could easily have been felt that Limerick would prop up the Munster group, things turned out quite differently. Likewise this year there were plenty of questions about Tipperary from the spring and last year, and two games in and suddenly they're the team in form. Go back about a decade with the current setup, when Kilkenny were well out in front with only Tipperary being serious challengers to them, and the excitement might have been a good deal more limited.

Keyser soze

Quote from: Maiden1 on May 23, 2019, 11:11:07 AM
Quote from: lenny on May 23, 2019, 10:33:36 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on May 23, 2019, 09:32:25 AM
Quote from: lenny on May 23, 2019, 07:35:10 AM
Quote from: general_lee on May 22, 2019, 10:16:52 PM
Just leave it as it is and start at focusing on making the weaker counties competitive. Fermanagh is a prime example. Made up of mostly water and the rest Protestants, they still manage to get their house in order and play to their potential.

lol Fermanagh have literally never won anything in their history. They've been in 3 ulster championship finals in their 100 years plus. If they were playing in an intermediate championship at the moment they would have a realistic chance of winning it. In the past they'd have ahd a good chance of winning junior championships. The current system does counties outside the top 5 or 6 teams no favours at all.
So maybe a race for Sam made up of six teams. Could you imagine the excitement? Wall to wall coverage on the telly of the big six playing each other.

The senior championship shold have around 8 teams. The intermediate championship could have 12 teams and the junior championship 12 teams. That way the super 8 could start without all the mismatches before. The other teams could play in a championship which gives them a meaningful and realistic chance to win.
They could break it into groups of 8 make it senior, intermediate, junior and junior B.  The top 8 teams could play each team once in a sort of round robin and then the 2 that finish with the most points play in the final.  The bottom 2 get relegated to the tier below for the following year and the top 2 from the next best teams could get promoted to the division championship above the following year.

What about groups of 4 and have 8 tiers, these would all definitely be competitive.

Owenmoresider

Quote from: From the Bunker on May 23, 2019, 11:24:27 AM
All this talk of different tiers in Hurling as if this is something new! Hurling has always been tiered. There are up to 15 counties that I've never seen play a game in the McCarthy Cup.
This is it, there was the Junior competition for many counties but it didn't seem the most structured of competitions. What the Ring/Rackard/Meagher has done is at least provide well structured summer (well early summer anyway) competitions for the counties involved, but it hasn't necessarily brought many of them on at all, and the increasing marginalisation of them by Croke Park doesn't make those of us who will be cut adrift in a similar scenario in football any more welcoming of the prospect.