A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

Started by winghalfback, May 27, 2015, 03:16:23 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 03, 2017, 05:48:37 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on May 03, 2017, 03:42:49 PM
why is it an economic basket case?

N.I. requires a subvention of around £10bn per annum to keep all services running.  The majority of heavy industry is gone. Most jobs introduced in the last 10 years are in the service sector.  Agriculture is dependent on subsidy from EU for majority of farmers who have small family holdings which produce a barely sufficient income.  Infrastructure, especially when compared to RoI or UK is poor, arterial roads are not dulled or motorways, railways are insufficient, public transport is barely adequate.  There are no natural resources exploited to the point where they produce a significant income, e.g. oil, gas. renewable energies.  Inward investment has not brought in wealth creating or manufacturing industry and has been wasted on a service sector giving millions to law firms, call centres, etc.  The tax base is insufficient to sustain the region.  Housing stock is adequate with no plan to improve it or the associated infrastructure.  The main export is our young people who are educated to third level and then go abroad where their skills can be appreciated.

I could go on.  Thank God for the UK government's willingness to continue to pump billions into a small rural region which will never provide a return on its investment.  so, many of us are living off the Queen's shilling and working in the public sector which still makes up well over 60% of the economic activity.

You're really selling it to our southern brethren
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Rossfan

I suspect Owen will be a no voter when the "Border poll" comes around.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Syferus

Quote from: Rossfan on May 03, 2017, 08:25:46 PM
I suspect Owen will be a no voter when the "Border poll" comes around.

When we absorb most of the financial and high tech jobs that are running from Britain like it's a burning house we might be able to afford to support all the special interests in the north.

omaghjoe

Quote from: Syferus on May 03, 2017, 08:43:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 03, 2017, 08:25:46 PM
I suspect Owen will be a no voter when the "Border poll" comes around.

When we absorb most of the financial and high tech jobs that are running from Britain like it's a burning house we might be able to afford to support all the special interests in the north.

If I was in the South Id want a Health Care System before I started to pay for the North's one 

Milltown Row2

Brilliant health care system in the south .... no?
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

omaghjoe

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2017, 09:14:23 PM
Brilliant health care system in the south .... no?

Eh? Probably worse than Americas TBF, at least here if you've got insurance and dont mind forking out $$ you'll get well looked after.
In the South its just crap for everyone.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: omaghjoe on May 03, 2017, 09:19:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2017, 09:14:23 PM
Brilliant health care system in the south .... no?

Eh? Probably worse than Americas TBF, at least here if you've got insurance and dont mind forking out $$ you'll get well looked after.
In the South its just crap for everyone.

I was taking the piss. I was going to follow it up with cheaper housing also
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

omaghjoe

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2017, 09:26:26 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 03, 2017, 09:19:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2017, 09:14:23 PM
Brilliant health care system in the south .... no?

Eh? Probably worse than Americas TBF, at least here if you've got insurance and dont mind forking out $$ you'll get well looked after.
In the South its just crap for everyone.

I was taking the piss. I was going to follow it up with cheaper housing also

I know! I was going along with it for affect FFS  ::)

;)

shark

Quote from: omaghjoe on May 03, 2017, 09:19:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2017, 09:14:23 PM
Brilliant health care system in the south .... no?

Eh? Probably worse than Americas TBF, at least here if you've got insurance and dont mind forking out $$ you'll get well looked after.
In the South its just crap for everyone.

A bit of a blunt assessment. Certainly it is managed abysmally and is not attaining value for money for the taxpayer. However the care isn't crap for everyone, as you say. Areas of cancer care are world class. Paediatric care, despite the children's hospital fiasco, is of a very high standard.
I know I'm clutching at straws, but there are some aspects that are functioning amid the general mess.

armaghniac

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 03, 2017, 05:48:37 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on May 03, 2017, 03:42:49 PM
why is it an economic basket case?

N.I. requires a subvention of around £10bn per annum to keep all services running.  The majority of heavy industry is gone. Most jobs introduced in the last 10 years are in the service sector.  Agriculture is dependent on subsidy from EU for majority of farmers who have small family holdings which produce a barely sufficient income.  Infrastructure, especially when compared to RoI or UK is poor, arterial roads are not dulled or motorways, railways are insufficient, public transport is barely adequate.  There are no natural resources exploited to the point where they produce a significant income, e.g. oil, gas. renewable energies.  Inward investment has not brought in wealth creating or manufacturing industry and has been wasted on a service sector giving millions to law firms, call centres, etc.  The tax base is insufficient to sustain the region.  Housing stock is adequate with no plan to improve it or the associated infrastructure.  The main export is our young people who are educated to third level and then go abroad where their skills can be appreciated.

I could go on.  Thank God for the UK government's willingness to continue to pump billions into a small rural region which will never provide a return on its investment.  so, many of us are living off the Queen's shilling and working in the public sector which still makes up well over 60% of the economic activity.

While this is helpful, any real analysis needs some comparison in detail between NI and ROI to see what is different, given that the ROI does pay for itself (and has some left over to send to Poland and build the A5 in Tyrone). I cannot see what the major difference between North and South is, perhaps because south Armagh isn't very different. There is a real lack of detailed research on this. For instance, where do all these extra public sector staff work. Class sizes are a bit bigger in the south, but generally education would not be hugely different and there may be more working in the third level in the south. Certain aspects of the social services are profoundly understaffed in the south, but the total number of staff cannot be that great. There could be differences in the degree of privatisation.

Quote from: shark on May 03, 2017, 09:44:57 PM
A bit of a blunt assessment. Certainly it is managed abysmally and is not attaining value for money for the taxpayer. However the care isn't crap for everyone, as you say. Areas of cancer care are world class. Paediatric care, despite the children's hospital fiasco, is of a very high standard.
I know I'm clutching at straws, but there are some aspects that are functioning amid the general mess.

Comparative stats do not show things much better in NI. The health service in the south is OK for most, but does have some unacceptable failures.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Milltown Row2

Comparative stats? Free health care (long waiting lists) paying health care no waiting lists ??
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Rossfan

Quote from: omaghjoe on May 03, 2017, 09:19:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2017, 09:14:23 PM
Brilliant health care system in the south .... no?

Eh? Probably worse than Americas TBF, at least here if you've got insurance and dont mind forking out $$ you'll get well looked after.
In the South its just crap for everyone.
When did you use the 26 Co health care system either public or private (via health insurance)?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

omaghjoe

Quote from: Rossfan on May 03, 2017, 11:46:11 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 03, 2017, 09:19:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2017, 09:14:23 PM
Brilliant health care system in the south .... no?

Eh? Probably worse than Americas TBF, at least here if you've got insurance and dont mind forking out $$ you'll get well looked after.
In the South its just crap for everyone.
When did you use the 26 Co health care system either public or private (via health insurance)?

What would that tell you sure?

I watch the news and drive past your dreary infirmerary thankful that her Majesty and Uncle Sam have always afforded me acceptable medical treatment at 1st world standards

I suppose you'll be trying to say next your education system is up to scratch when an afternoon on here is all evidence you need to display the inferior level of education in the Free State.

omochain

Quote from: omaghjoe on May 04, 2017, 12:07:49 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 03, 2017, 11:46:11 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 03, 2017, 09:19:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2017, 09:14:23 PM
Brilliant health care system in the south .... no?

Eh? Probably worse than Americas TBF, at least here if you've got insurance and dont mind forking out $$ you'll get well looked after.
In the South its just crap for everyone.
When did you use the 26 Co health care system either public or private (via health insurance)?

What would that tell you sure?

I watch the news and drive past your dreary infirmerary thankful that her Majesty and Uncle Sam have always afforded me acceptable medical treatment at 1st world standards

I suppose you'll be trying to say next your education system is up to scratch when an afternoon on here is all evidence you need to display the inferior level of education in the Free State.

Joe ... you speak with such certainty... Tell us about your experiences with the Healthcare and educational systems in the Free State.

haranguerer

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 03, 2017, 05:48:37 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on May 03, 2017, 03:42:49 PM
why is it an economic basket case?

N.I. requires a subvention of around £10bn per annum to keep all services running.  The majority of heavy industry is gone. Most jobs introduced in the last 10 years are in the service sector.  Agriculture is dependent on subsidy from EU for majority of farmers who have small family holdings which produce a barely sufficient income.  Infrastructure, especially when compared to RoI or UK is poor, arterial roads are not dulled or motorways, railways are insufficient, public transport is barely adequate.  There are no natural resources exploited to the point where they produce a significant income, e.g. oil, gas. renewable energies.  Inward investment has not brought in wealth creating or manufacturing industry and has been wasted on a service sector giving millions to law firms, call centres, etc.  The tax base is insufficient to sustain the region.  Housing stock is adequate with no plan to improve it or the associated infrastructure.  The main export is our young people who are educated to third level and then go abroad where their skills can be appreciated.

I could go on.  Thank God for the UK government's willingness to continue to pump billions into a small rural region which will never provide a return on its investment.  so, many of us are living off the Queen's shilling and working in the public sector which still makes up well over 60% of the economic activity.

Doesn't sound like partition has done it any favours, does it?