James McClean

Started by thewobbler, July 19, 2015, 12:39:27 PM

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DuffleKing


Really don't understand the resentment towards McClean's professional career and the desire to denigrate it. On the run of things, he has done exceptionally well compared to the majority who head across to England and carved out a fantastic career that any of us would love.

What's with booting the clubs he has played for?

From the Bunker

Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 21, 2015, 09:30:41 PM
Wonder what his reaction will be when the queen awards him an OBE for services to crap football teams.

In fairness to get to the standard to play for these teams is a fair journey! Crap as they may seem to you. I laugh at people who talk about Irish lads who play for Championship sides and say they never made it as a footballer. I tell you they still make a lot of money.

deiseach

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 21, 2015, 11:29:04 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 21, 2015, 09:30:41 PM
Wonder what his reaction will be when the queen awards him an OBE for services to crap football teams.

In fairness to get to the standard to play for these teams is a fair journey! Crap as they may seem to you. I laugh at people who talk about Irish lads who play for Championship sides and say they never made it as a footballer. I tell you they still make a lot of money.

Football is played by hundreds of millions of people. They probably all aspire at some stage to make a career out of it. If you do, you're one of 1%. Damn it, one of the 0.01%.

Over the Bar

I graduated from QUB and none of my family stood for GSTQ.  My brother graduated in England so we all stood for it.  When in Rome etc.  I've no problem standing for the National Anthem of any county in that country.

Jeepers Creepers

Some sensitive souls on here, I apologise for offending Wigan, WBA, Sunderland and Derry city. You are all special! On the point he should have faced the flag but hung his head. Just as the Northern RCs do on the the NI team, as previously stated. His taxes going towards the Ministry Of Defence is also a fair point.

TheOptimist

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 21, 2015, 11:29:04 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 21, 2015, 09:30:41 PM
Wonder what his reaction will be when the queen awards him an OBE for services to crap football teams.

In fairness to get to the standard to play for these teams is a fair journey! Crap as they may seem to you. I laugh at people who talk about Irish lads who play for Championship sides and say they never made it as a footballer. I tell you they still make a lot of money.

The Bentley/Lamborghini/Land Rover he drives around in suggests he isn't doing to bad for himself. What car do you drive?

laoislad

Quote from: TheOptimist on July 22, 2015, 11:31:17 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 21, 2015, 11:29:04 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 21, 2015, 09:30:41 PM
Wonder what his reaction will be when the queen awards him an OBE for services to crap football teams.

In fairness to get to the standard to play for these teams is a fair journey! Crap as they may seem to you. I laugh at people who talk about Irish lads who play for Championship sides and say they never made it as a footballer. I tell you they still make a lot of money.


The Bentley/Lamborghini/Land Rover he drives around in suggests he isn't doing to bad for himself. What car do you drive?
Bentley and Land Rover.. Two great British car brands .
Sure he hardly drives one of them now with his hatred of all things British...
When you think you're fucked you're only about 40% fucked.

deiseach

If Sunderland and WBA are crap, what word can we use to describe teams worse than them? It's not about being 'offended' on their behalf, it's about taking a reductive view of James McClean's career which is really rather impressive.

Speaking of being offended, here's a surprising defence of McClean from - I can't believe I'm writing this - the Torygraph (NB I can't  bring myself to read the comments):

QuoteJames McClean's flag snub starts an undignified race to be offended

The West Brom midfielder's perceived lack of respect for the England flag has attracted a frankly absurd level of criticism
   
By Jonathan Liew 5:38PM BST 21 Jul 2015

Let me tell you a secret. I don't much like the national anthem. Quite apart from the fact that sending a lady "happy and glorious" when she is already worth an estimated £340 million and lives in a big palace is probably just a touch superfluous, it's not even a very nice tune. La Marseillaise, there's an anthem. The Italian one is a delight. God Save The Queen lacks any verve or spirit. It's tame, dry, unsure of itself. It's a Malted Milk biscuit in musical form.

So on an artistic level at least, I can empathise with James McClean. Last week the West Brom winger was in South Carolina for a pre-season friendly when, in a curious display of ostentation far outstripping the prestige of the actual game, the national anthems were played and the English flag unfurled overhead. While his team-mates turned to face the flag, McClean turned his back and refused to acknowledge it.

McClean is from a Republican area of Derry in Northern Ireland, and has previously opted not to wear a Remembrance Day poppy because of his political beliefs. For this he received death threats, taunts about the IRA, boos from his own fans. Despite all this, it is McClean's impoliteness under the microscope, as if he were a house guest who has insulted the decor. His manager Tony Pulis publicly rebuked him, warning of a developing "stigma around him" and ordering him to "face the flag" in future. A Derry MP advised West Brom to sack McClean, adding that "he's not worth the trouble".

Now, McClean's politics might not be to everyone's taste, and nor might his methods of expressing them. But in an age when footballers are becoming increasingly anodyne, there is something refreshing about one who believes in something; anything. Not that you know it from the furious reaction. One of the great things about social media is that it allows you to find out what idiots are thinking without actually having to talk to them, and sure enough McClean's gesture provoked the sort of anger that the internet has turned into a performance art.

The criticism essentially runs thus: if McClean is content to earn a living in Britain, why does he hate it so much? Why not go back to where he came from (which, we should probably point out, is technically also Britain)?

This idea that earning a living from a country should entail tolerance for its customs and rituals remains surprisingly tenacious, if inconsistently applied. At what stage, for example, should we inform the Chinese and Russian investors buying up large swathes of London about the ancient British tradition that houses are lived in, rather than left empty and used as investment vehicles? Jose Mourinho, meanwhile, admitted in an interview last year that he dislikes British food. Are we obliged to lynch him, or can we just put him on a plane home? Instead, McClean's lack of reverence is singled out, largely by the same people who thought Gazza pretending to play the flute during the Old Firm derby was absolutely hilarious.

In 1938 the England team famously performed the Nazi salute whilst playing in Berlin. And the irony is that had one of the England players dissented and turned his back on the swastika, he would now be hailed as a principled hero. McClean, meanwhile, is being reproached for turning his back on God Save The Queen, which as we've established isn't even a good song. Of course, the analogy doesn't work, because it implies some sort of correlation between the Queen and the Nazi salute, which would be entirely ludicrous.

The issue for the game here is obvious enough. Footballers seem increasingly disconnected from the wider world, and the McClean furore encapsulates why. Take a stand and get pilloried by fans, dressed down by your manager, painted as a troublemaker. Far better to keep your head down, son. Don't cause any trouble. Face the flag.

Main Street

Quote from: Over the Bar on July 22, 2015, 10:19:13 AM
I graduated from QUB and none of my family stood for GSTQ.  My brother graduated in England so we all stood for it.  When in Rome etc.  I've no problem standing for the National Anthem of any county in that country.
James was in the USA.

Hardy

Quote from: deiseach on July 22, 2015, 11:40:32 AM
If Sunderland and WBA are crap, what word can we use to describe teams worse than them? It's not about being 'offended' on their behalf, it's about taking a reductive view of James McClean's career which is really rather impressive.

Speaking of being offended, here's a surprising defence of McClean from - I can't believe I'm writing this - the Torygraph (NB I can't  bring myself to read the comments):

QuoteJames McClean's flag snub starts an undignified race to be offended

The West Brom midfielder's perceived lack of respect for the England flag has attracted a frankly absurd level of criticism
   
By Jonathan Liew 5:38PM BST 21 Jul 2015

Let me tell you a secret. I don't much like the national anthem. Quite apart from the fact that sending a lady "happy and glorious" when she is already worth an estimated £340 million and lives in a big palace is probably just a touch superfluous, it's not even a very nice tune. La Marseillaise, there's an anthem. The Italian one is a delight. God Save The Queen lacks any verve or spirit. It's tame, dry, unsure of itself. It's a Malted Milk biscuit in musical form.

So on an artistic level at least, I can empathise with James McClean. Last week the West Brom winger was in South Carolina for a pre-season friendly when, in a curious display of ostentation far outstripping the prestige of the actual game, the national anthems were played and the English flag unfurled overhead. While his team-mates turned to face the flag, McClean turned his back and refused to acknowledge it.

McClean is from a Republican area of Derry in Northern Ireland, and has previously opted not to wear a Remembrance Day poppy because of his political beliefs. For this he received death threats, taunts about the IRA, boos from his own fans. Despite all this, it is McClean's impoliteness under the microscope, as if he were a house guest who has insulted the decor. His manager Tony Pulis publicly rebuked him, warning of a developing "stigma around him" and ordering him to "face the flag" in future. A Derry MP advised West Brom to sack McClean, adding that "he's not worth the trouble".

Now, McClean's politics might not be to everyone's taste, and nor might his methods of expressing them. But in an age when footballers are becoming increasingly anodyne, there is something refreshing about one who believes in something; anything. Not that you know it from the furious reaction. One of the great things about social media is that it allows you to find out what idiots are thinking without actually having to talk to them, and sure enough McClean's gesture provoked the sort of anger that the internet has turned into a performance art.

The criticism essentially runs thus: if McClean is content to earn a living in Britain, why does he hate it so much? Why not go back to where he came from (which, we should probably point out, is technically also Britain)?

This idea that earning a living from a country should entail tolerance for its customs and rituals remains surprisingly tenacious, if inconsistently applied. At what stage, for example, should we inform the Chinese and Russian investors buying up large swathes of London about the ancient British tradition that houses are lived in, rather than left empty and used as investment vehicles? Jose Mourinho, meanwhile, admitted in an interview last year that he dislikes British food. Are we obliged to lynch him, or can we just put him on a plane home? Instead, McClean's lack of reverence is singled out, largely by the same people who thought Gazza pretending to play the flute during the Old Firm derby was absolutely hilarious.

In 1938 the England team famously performed the Nazi salute whilst playing in Berlin. And the irony is that had one of the England players dissented and turned his back on the swastika, he would now be hailed as a principled hero. McClean, meanwhile, is being reproached for turning his back on God Save The Queen, which as we've established isn't even a good song. Of course, the analogy doesn't work, because it implies some sort of correlation between the Queen and the Nazi salute, which would be entirely ludicrous.

The issue for the game here is obvious enough. Footballers seem increasingly disconnected from the wider world, and the McClean furore encapsulates why. Take a stand and get pilloried by fans, dressed down by your manager, painted as a troublemaker. Far better to keep your head down, son. Don't cause any trouble. Face the flag.

That was well worth reading for the most quotable quote I've seen in a long time:

One of the great things about social media is that it allows you to find out what idiots are thinking without actually having to talk to them.

trileacman

Quote from: Hardy on July 22, 2015, 08:05:01 PM
Quote from: deiseach on July 22, 2015, 11:40:32 AM
If Sunderland and WBA are crap, what word can we use to describe teams worse than them? It's not about being 'offended' on their behalf, it's about taking a reductive view of James McClean's career which is really rather impressive.

Speaking of being offended, here's a surprising defence of McClean from - I can't believe I'm writing this - the Torygraph (NB I can't  bring myself to read the comments):

QuoteJames McClean's flag snub starts an undignified race to be offended

The West Brom midfielder's perceived lack of respect for the England flag has attracted a frankly absurd level of criticism
   
By Jonathan Liew 5:38PM BST 21 Jul 2015

Let me tell you a secret. I don't much like the national anthem. Quite apart from the fact that sending a lady "happy and glorious" when she is already worth an estimated £340 million and lives in a big palace is probably just a touch superfluous, it's not even a very nice tune. La Marseillaise, there's an anthem. The Italian one is a delight. God Save The Queen lacks any verve or spirit. It's tame, dry, unsure of itself. It's a Malted Milk biscuit in musical form.

So on an artistic level at least, I can empathise with James McClean. Last week the West Brom winger was in South Carolina for a pre-season friendly when, in a curious display of ostentation far outstripping the prestige of the actual game, the national anthems were played and the English flag unfurled overhead. While his team-mates turned to face the flag, McClean turned his back and refused to acknowledge it.

McClean is from a Republican area of Derry in Northern Ireland, and has previously opted not to wear a Remembrance Day poppy because of his political beliefs. For this he received death threats, taunts about the IRA, boos from his own fans. Despite all this, it is McClean's impoliteness under the microscope, as if he were a house guest who has insulted the decor. His manager Tony Pulis publicly rebuked him, warning of a developing "stigma around him" and ordering him to "face the flag" in future. A Derry MP advised West Brom to sack McClean, adding that "he's not worth the trouble".

Now, McClean's politics might not be to everyone's taste, and nor might his methods of expressing them. But in an age when footballers are becoming increasingly anodyne, there is something refreshing about one who believes in something; anything. Not that you know it from the furious reaction. One of the great things about social media is that it allows you to find out what idiots are thinking without actually having to talk to them, and sure enough McClean's gesture provoked the sort of anger that the internet has turned into a performance art.

The criticism essentially runs thus: if McClean is content to earn a living in Britain, why does he hate it so much? Why not go back to where he came from (which, we should probably point out, is technically also Britain)?

This idea that earning a living from a country should entail tolerance for its customs and rituals remains surprisingly tenacious, if inconsistently applied. At what stage, for example, should we inform the Chinese and Russian investors buying up large swathes of London about the ancient British tradition that houses are lived in, rather than left empty and used as investment vehicles? Jose Mourinho, meanwhile, admitted in an interview last year that he dislikes British food. Are we obliged to lynch him, or can we just put him on a plane home? Instead, McClean's lack of reverence is singled out, largely by the same people who thought Gazza pretending to play the flute during the Old Firm derby was absolutely hilarious.

In 1938 the England team famously performed the Nazi salute whilst playing in Berlin. And the irony is that had one of the England players dissented and turned his back on the swastika, he would now be hailed as a principled hero. McClean, meanwhile, is being reproached for turning his back on God Save The Queen, which as we've established isn't even a good song. Of course, the analogy doesn't work, because it implies some sort of correlation between the Queen and the Nazi salute, which would be entirely ludicrous.

The issue for the game here is obvious enough. Footballers seem increasingly disconnected from the wider world, and the McClean furore encapsulates why. Take a stand and get pilloried by fans, dressed down by your manager, painted as a troublemaker. Far better to keep your head down, son. Don't cause any trouble. Face the flag.

That was well worth reading for the most quotable quote I've seen in a long time:

One of the great things about social media is that it allows you to find out what idiots are thinking without actually having to talk to them.

That's actually the worst thing about social media. If I wanted the opinion of idiots I'd ask for it.
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

Hardy

It's important to know what's going on in idiot minds. There are more of them than us and they have votes.

ONeill

Quote from: deiseach on July 22, 2015, 11:40:32 AM

(NB I can't  bring myself to read the comments):


joestrummer • 41 minutes ago
The appalling ignorance regarding Irish politics shown by the author of this article is palpably clear.

There is no place in Northern Ireland called Derry, but County Londonderry.

Why is Gazza mimicking playing a flute during an Old Firm game often dragged up as a contentious act,when flute bands are part of both sides of the cultural divide over there ?

It offended no-one.

Should he have mimicked playing a saxophone or a trombone instead ?

As for the obvious attention-seeker McClean, would anyone even know who he is without his predictable and tiresome everyone look at me antics ?

The only irony in this article is that with his Scottish Planter surname, McClean won't be seen as " genuine Irish " by the hardline Irish Republicans he's trying to impress, or even decent folk from Southern Ireland who're not too keen on Nordies from over the border misappropriating their Irish identity.
I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.

ONeill

inglis • 8 hours ago
The Irish are shameless. An over-developed sense of entitlement fed continually by Hollywood propaganda leads them to play the American market every chance they get furthermore and makes an exhibition of this kind no surprise at all. McClean's opinions are his own affair. As an Englishman I too would ignore the British national anthem [and unionist flag]. It's the breathtaking presumption of insulting a people in whose country he is a guest, and where he is permitted, like Mr Woo, to earn a fine living, that tells even historical ignoramuses all they need to know about this loathsome nation. Is it so hard to predict reaction if English players abroad [e.g. Scotland] pulled a similar stunt? What counts for a lot is where you get your journalists. You expect few favours even from your own in this country, but none at all from outlanders. They're not here because they like us you know.
I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.

Hardy

Now we're getting somewhere. In no time Joe and the National Affront will have recruiting-sergeanted all of us into the James McClean, republican hero camp.