Tyrone V Monaghan AIQF 2015

[Sidney]

Will be great to see what a proper footballing team like Kerry will do to a team of cynical cheaters who can only win games by dishing out cheap blows on the opposition and getting opponents sent off, there is very little football ability in them, if there was all irelands for dark arts they would be going for 13 or 14 in a row

but that's the thing, there is football in them, they were excellent today and have been one of the most consistent teams in the country for 15 years. that's what makes it so disappointing when they revert to the crap.

Tony McCann shouldn't have went down like that and he should get a ban but there were 2 teams out there today.

Naw - not this time. It just won't cut it. Monaghan's problem was they just didn't know how to be as cynical

Monaghan's problem is they don't score enough. Same as ever. They have a template to win an Ulster Championship.

They have no template to win AI Titles.

They need to focus on underage and get winning them at that level first.

I don't necessarily disagree with that but it wasn't my point (its not a perfect formula either - look at cavan). I'm sick of watching football where the perpetrators are a few steps ahead  of the ref. That's Tyrone all over and Cavanagh in particular. Duffy never stood a chance

Look Tyrone have never been any different. At times they are pathetic in the way they drag the game through the mud. They truly can be a disgrace at times in the manner in which they drag the game to a base level typically seen in a Games of Thrones Episode.

But they have a brilliant manager and great development system which we ended up copying. They produce multi-adaptable , highly skilled and conditioned players in sufficient numbers to excel at inter county level. I genuinely admire them for that. When they have a weakness in an area of the pitch they put emphasis on it in the development system to ensure it doesn't happen again. That's why they are so good.

Unfortunately though they also teach some of their players to be scumbags. Why I don't know. But it's a pity because it allows everyone to forget how good some of their players are. But only they can change that

Scum is as scum does.

So where would be place Tyrone on the scum level then?

Presuming Directors of Genocide to be at the top, followed by murders, rapists, drug dealers, thieves, drunk drivers. Where would Tyrone fit in there?

Marginally below people who organise dog fights and give character witness statements for murderers but ahead of people who defend corrupt businessmen and advocate right-wing, misogynist political causes. Some of this may or may not be the same people, mind.

[outside-the-wire]

Great win an all. But Tiernan McCann. Hang yer head in shame. Embarrassing.

Monaghan gutless which was a surprise. Allowed Tyrone to bully them all over the field.

0-18 good scoring. Sean immense.

Finally a man among ye!

Totally agree.

[tonto1888]

Tyrone were much the better team and deserved the win.
Regarding cavanagh I dunno why people seemed surprised at his antics. Very good player but the other stuff he does is unneeded.  The Tyrone number 10 was an absolute disgrace and his antics will overshadow the great scores, defending and Tyrone's ability to move the call from back to front at a very high speed

[INDIANA]

The way harte's teams play benefit from more games though to fine tune his systems. That doesn't mean he doesn't go out to win ulster- it just means the way he plays gets better with more games.

I guess in some respects i agree with you but i think tactically the big guys really need more than one hand. Very surprised monaghan didn't have that to be honest. Even moving mcmanus out to half forwards and trying longer range points would have been a start. Just changing personnel is not enough.

It's where i think it'll be very interesting this year with gavin. Dublin may win the ai but with what's left at some point they won't steam roll teams and how will they adapt. Especially if fundamental things like half back line goes missing happens...

I don't expect Dublin to beat Mayo Tommy and I'll say why in the coming weeks.

Monghan have  problem in their system as regards scoring forwards and they need to go back to the drawing board in their development system.

They needed a 25 year old Tommy Freeman and Paul Finlay today. Mc Manus as brilliant as he is (and he is brilliant) can't do it on this own. They remind me of Tyrone 95-97. Good enough to win Ulster.

They don't transition well from defence to attack. The pace is slower in Ulster, its more ponderous. Croke Park is a faster pitch and it requires more pace. Monaghan don't have that because they only have a template to win Ulster.

[Jinxy]

I actually think that effort by McCann was the worst dive I've ever seen.
In any sport.
The lad needs to be made an example of.

[omaghjoe]

Will be great to see what a proper footballing team like Kerry will do to a team of cynical cheaters who can only win games by dishing out cheap blows on the opposition and getting opponents sent off, there is very little football ability in them, if there was all irelands for dark arts they would be going for 13 or 14 in a row

but that's the thing, there is football in them, they were excellent today and have been one of the most consistent teams in the country for 15 years. that's what makes it so disappointing when they revert to the crap.

Tony McCann shouldn't have went down like that and he should get a ban but there were 2 teams out there today.

Naw - not this time. It just won't cut it. Monaghan's problem was they just didn't know how to be as cynical

Monaghan's problem is they don't score enough. Same as ever. They have a template to win an Ulster Championship.

They have no template to win AI Titles.

They need to focus on underage and get winning them at that level first.

I don't necessarily disagree with that but it wasn't my point (its not a perfect formula either - look at cavan). I'm sick of watching football where the perpetrators are a few steps ahead  of the ref. That's Tyrone all over and Cavanagh in particular. Duffy never stood a chance

Look Tyrone have never been any different. At times they are pathetic in the way they drag the game through the mud. They truly can be a disgrace at times in the manner in which they drag the game to a base level typically seen in a Games of Thrones Episode.

But they have a brilliant manager and great development system which we ended up copying. They produce multi-adaptable , highly skilled and conditioned players in sufficient numbers to excel at inter county level. I genuinely admire them for that. When they have a weakness in an area of the pitch they put emphasis on it in the development system to ensure it doesn't happen again. That's why they are so good.

Unfortunately though they also teach some of their players to be scumbags. Why I don't know. But it's a pity because it allows everyone to forget how good some of their players are. But only they can change that

Scum is as scum does.

So where would be place Tyrone on the scum level then?

Presuming Directors of Genocide to be at the top, followed by murders, rapists, drug dealers, thieves, drunk drivers. Where would Tyrone fit in there?

Marginally below people who organise dog fights and give character witness statements for murderers but ahead of people who defend corrupt businessmen and advocate right-wing, misogynist political causes. Some of this may or may not be the same people, mind.

So that would be below those who assault people in pubs then?

[imtommygunn]

The way harte's teams play benefit from more games though to fine tune his systems. That doesn't mean he doesn't go out to win ulster- it just means the way he plays gets better with more games.

I guess in some respects i agree with you but i think tactically the big guys really need more than one hand. Very surprised monaghan didn't have that to be honest. Even moving mcmanus out to half forwards and trying longer range points would have been a start. Just changing personnel is not enough.

It's where i think it'll be very interesting this year with gavin. Dublin may win the ai but with what's left at some point they won't steam roll teams and how will they adapt. Especially if fundamental things like half back line goes missing happens...

I don't expect Dublin to beat Mayo Tommy and I'll say why in the coming weeks.

Monghan have  problem in their system as regards scoring forwards and they need to go back to the drawing board in their development system.

They needed a 25 year old Tommy Freeman and Paul Finlay today. Mc Manus as brilliant as he is (and he is brilliant) can't do it on this own. They remind me of Tyrone 95-97. Good enough to win Ulster.

They don't transition well from defence to attack. The pace is slower in Ulster, its more ponderous. Croke Park is a faster pitch and it requires more pace. Monaghan don't have that because they only have a template to win Ulster.

I hope you're right on mayo but wouldn't be so sure. By the way you're illustrating the massive advantage dublin have by talking about the faster pitch...

Finlay with long range points would have helped but freeman would have been bottled up.

I think monaghan have enough talent that they should be able to do better than they did today. The speed you talk about when transitioning should be better with mone and malone at whb. Maybe it was midfield was the issue i'm not sure.

On the subject of finlay his discipline was shocking today. Not like him. I thought both teams were borderline as bad as each other with neither good. Cavanagh was acting up but kieran hughes the same. Mccann dive was shocking. Beggan went down like he'd been hit at one point too and got right back up when he got nothing.

[Jinxy]

Monaghan didn't have the power around the middle third to run at a packed defence.
Forced to go laterally in the hope that they might work a shot.
Some great long range points kicked, but you won't win a game that way.
Need the bread and butter stuff kicked in and around the D.

[omagh_gael]

McCann made a holy show of himself with the theatrics, impossible to justify and, IMO, will only come back to haunt us in the future i.e. refs giving more calls in 50-50s against us.

However, I'm almost certain Hughes decked Donnelly just before this and looking at his eye after the game it was a brutal shot. Sky cameras showed one brief replay when a punch could be seen. Would be interesting to see that again. Once again, McCann made an absolute prat of himself afterwards, however, Hughes was stupid to grab his hair in clear sight of the ref.

The OTT reaction from some of the plonkers here is ridiculous though. Subtract the McCann incident and Monaghan were equal if not ahead on the dirt scale. Not much mention of Jap's dirty (and dangerous) punches, Kieran Hughes losing the plot a number of times, once when he pulled off a WWF style flying neck grab on Justy.

I am no apologist, I am well aware of our propensity to resort to cynical means to finish off games on occasion, however, the level or blood baying and Maud Flanders-esqe crying would sicken your hole.

[straightred]

The way harte's teams play benefit from more games though to fine tune his systems. That doesn't mean he doesn't go out to win ulster- it just means the way he plays gets better with more games.

I guess in some respects i agree with you but i think tactically the big guys really need more than one hand. Very surprised monaghan didn't have that to be honest. Even moving mcmanus out to half forwards and trying longer range points would have been a start. Just changing personnel is not enough.

It's where i think it'll be very interesting this year with gavin. Dublin may win the ai but with what's left at some point they won't steam roll teams and how will they adapt. Especially if fundamental things like half back line goes missing happens...

I don't expect Dublin to beat Mayo Tommy and I'll say why in the coming weeks.

Monghan have  problem in their system as regards scoring forwards and they need to go back to the drawing board in their development system.

They needed a 25 year old Tommy Freeman and Paul Finlay today. Mc Manus as brilliant as he is (and he is brilliant) can't do it on this own. They remind me of Tyrone 95-97. Good enough to win Ulster.

They don't transition well from defence to attack. The pace is slower in Ulster, its more ponderous. Croke Park is a faster pitch and it requires more pace. Monaghan don't have that because they only have a template to win Ulster.

I hope you're right on mayo but wouldn't be so sure. By the way you're illustrating the massive advantage dublin have by talking about the faster pitch...

Finlay with long range points would have helped but freeman would have been bottled up.

I think monaghan have enough talent that they should be able to do better than they did today. The speed you talk about when transitioning should be better with mone and malone at whb. Maybe it was midfield was the issue i'm not sure.

On the subject of finlay his discipline was shocking today. Not like him. I thought both teams were borderline as bad as each other with neither good. Cavanagh was acting up but kieran hughes the same. Mccann dive was shocking. Beggan went down like he'd been hit at one point too and got right back up when he got nothing.

The problem with this kind of analysis is that you want to attribute equal blame to both sides and then move on. Cavanagh and Hughes - seriously now - catch yourself on. Hughes played right on the limits. Cavanagh went way over yet again and got away with it thanks to marty duffy. Beggan took a bad fall - wasn't looking for anything. Stop making stuff up

Monaghan should have done better but they also should have got a lot more decisions than they did. They may well still have lost but we'll never know. Tyrone went to the bottom of their dirty barrel to win this one

[Highlander3]

Hi omagh

That's a pretty fair post but you can't subtract what McCann did that was one of the most stupid looking things I ever saw, it's the only thing people will remember from this game whether you like it or not

[tyroneman]

I have to do say it's hilarious all the Monaghan fans talking about the dark arts.

1 win in the Ulster championship. A follow up win in the league.

Today - Normal. Service. Resumed.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

I have to do say it's hilarious all the Monaghan fans talking about the dark arts.

1 win in the Ulster championship. A follow up win in the league.

Today - Normal. Service. Resumed.

Its not really Monaghan fans spitting feathers

[omagh_gael]

Hi omagh

That's a pretty fair post but you can't subtract what McCann did that was one of the most stupid looking things I ever saw, it's the only thing people will remember from this game whether you like it or not

I absolutely agree, I am just trying to highlight an another angle that may have been the cause of the red card as well as Hughes' stupidity in grabbing his hair in front of the ref.

I would have no complaints at all if it were possible to retrospectively punish him.

[Wildweasel74]

anyway back to the first 60mins, Tyrone looked good breaking quick and have scoring forwards in McCurry, the big fairy, and the clonoe man, Thought Donnelly was Tyrone best man today, you cant beat a scoring midfielder. Monaghan didn't look to be at the races and seemed sluggish like the last 20mins of the donegal game and not the first 50 of the Ulster final. McManus looks to be the best forward in the country but would have need a young Paul Finlay and Freeman up with him for Monaghan to win, they just don`t have the scoring power and will start to go back as there will be players that will retire, just like Donegal. so Tyrone will start to come back to the fore in Ulster.

They be big underdogs against Kerry but Kerry have played only 1 Blanket defence team in Donegal last year. they can be caught on the day, Kerry have alot of scoring power depending if the corner forward is passed fit, If James O`D doesn't play the teams will even up alot.

And as for hating Tyrone, my mother from Tyrone, my Uncle played Minors for them but i just cant warm to them for Obvious reasons