The Horse racing thread

[maximus]

It's 10-1 on ladbrokes

[new devil]

Even better...7-1 PP

[randomtask]

donkey, lol every time i back a tip it is dirt 

[sammymaguire]

5.20 NEWMARKET - LUNAR VICTORY short price but should hack up, is defo one I like the look of...

[Massey-135]

boys did anyone ever do the head-to-head bets at ladbrokes for the festivals? 6 races and you mark one horse to finish ahead of the other, it doesn't matter who wins? i did it at Cheltenham and got 3 right out of the 6 and they paid out at 6/1, as it says on the slip. Then i did it again for aintree last week and i got 5 right out of 6, but this time when i went to collect the boy said i need to get all my selections right to get any money, and wouldn't take the slip, any idea which is right and which is wrong? 5 right pays out 25/1 so i was thinking i was in the money...

[Candyman]

2nd last Sammy?

[sammymaguire]

2nd last Sammy?

rubbish Candy... no idea why that one ran so bad...  dunno where my next winner is coming from 

[Candyman]

Or your next €50 to back it? ;-)

[sammymaguire]

Or your next €50 to back it? ;-)

its nearly getting that way...

[Louth Exile]

I'm beginning to think the way they've handicapped the National in recent years has made sh1te of the stats. Phil Smith has said that he doesn't frame the weights like a conventional handicap anymore. He drops some of the higher rated horses in order to tempt connections of some of the better quality horses into running. The handicap is much more compressed nowadays and there's far more horses actually carrying over 11st.

Smith also adjusts a horses chase rating judged on hurdles form (War Of Attrition went up for his hurdles wins this year). He must have been pissed off with horses like Numbersixvalverde being campaigned all year over hurdles in order to protect their chase mark.

As Michael O'Leary said at the weights announcement this year though: "it's supposed to be the John Smith's Grand National, not the Phil Smith's Grand National"

That could be the key to it OK. It's amazing that he gets away with making up his own rules for one race, especially with regard to taking hurdling form into account, since it's not done for other handicaps. But effectively he can do what he likes because there aren't really any rules anyway and no effective overview of the handicapper's work.

Sure are you not old enough to remember when they had a seperate handicap for Arkle 

[attheraces]

Ripon 2.00 - Cocktail Charlie
Newmarket 2.25 - Soviet Secret
Cheltenham 2.45 - Cesium (nap)
Newmarket 5.20 - Vulcanite

[Hardy]

I'm beginning to think the way they've handicapped the National in recent years has made sh1te of the stats. Phil Smith has said that he doesn't frame the weights like a conventional handicap anymore. He drops some of the higher rated horses in order to tempt connections of some of the better quality horses into running. The handicap is much more compressed nowadays and there's far more horses actually carrying over 11st.

Smith also adjusts a horses chase rating judged on hurdles form (War Of Attrition went up for his hurdles wins this year). He must have been pissed off with horses like Numbersixvalverde being campaigned all year over hurdles in order to protect their chase mark.

As Michael O'Leary said at the weights announcement this year though: "it's supposed to be the John Smith's Grand National, not the Phil Smith's Grand National"

That could be the key to it OK. It's amazing that he gets away with making up his own rules for one race, especially with regard to taking hurdling form into account, since it's not done for other handicaps. But effectively he can do what he likes because there aren't really any rules anyway and no effective overview of the handicapper's work.

Sure are you not old enough to remember when they had a seperate handicap for Arkle 

Some youngsters here may think that's a joke, but they genuinely had. He was rated so far ahead of even the immediate next-best that all his opponents would carry bottom weight when he was running, so they then had to have a handicap for non-Arkle races to separate the others from each other.

He was rated 212 by Timeform, the highest ever, two ahead of Flyingbolt, the most unfortunate horse in history. Flyingbolt, rated the second-best ever, was unlucky enough to be a contemporary of Arkle and is almost forgotten by comparison. Both trained by Tom Dreaper (Paul Nicholls - hah!), they never raced each other.

For a perspective on Arkle's rating, the joint third of all time (with Mill House, another great unfortunate contemporary of Arkle) is Kauto Star, 21 lbs lower on a mark of 191.

For those who don't quite understand the phenomenon that was Arkle, this is a very good summary of his greatness.

[Homer]

He was rated 212 by Timeform, the highest ever, two ahead of Flyingbolt, the most unfortunate horse in history. Flyingbolt, rated the second-best ever, was unlucky enough to be a contemporary of Arkle and is almost forgotten by comparison. Both trained by Tom Dreaper (Paul Nicholls - hah!), they never raced each other.

It always amazes me how many people are completely unaware of the greatness of Flyingbolt, so to accompany your Arkle link...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/feb/17/horseracing.gdnsport33

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyingbolt

[Hardy]

Thanks Homer.

While we're on the subject of Tom Dreaper and his horses, anyone interested in jump racing and memorabilia would enjoy a pint in The Beck's, about a mile down the road from Kilmoon Cross on the Drogheda road.

I was there on Saturday night, for the first time in about 20 years and they have a small selection of Dreaper pictures and Arkle-related stuff. One thing tickled my nostalgia nerve. Pinned to the back of one of the bench seats was a black board, about two and a half feet long and six inches high with "L. McLOUGHLIN" painted on it in white. Anyone here know what it was? (You probably need to be a certain age).

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Some great reading there lads. Thanks for putting up the links to those pieces.

And Nicholls was getting stick for only running Kauto and Denman against each other once a year!