Joe Brolly

Started by randomtask, July 31, 2011, 05:28:31 PM

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magpie seanie

I agree with Brolly here. The intercounty game is destroying the GAA and the great bastions of protecting players are to the forefront of the drive to professionalise the game. The GPA are completely unfit for their stated purpose but many of us realised that their stated purpose was only a cover. It always really been about money with them. Intercounty players might have got less gear and money pre-GPA but I guarantee they enjoyed it an awful lot more. The powers that be in Croke Park also stand indicted for allowing this to happen. They're even worse.

orangeman

If it was always about the money before then it's now even more so about the £.

AZOffaly

This is what I was saying on another thread. Even an amateur organisation, and maybe especially an amateur organisation the size of the GAA, requires money, and lots of it, to keep things ticking over and to provide the facilities and support to our counties, clubs and players.

For this, you need a business model, and you need businessmen to implement the business model.

Our problem, to me, seems to be that the raison d'etre for the business model in the first place is being lost, and everything is focussed on maximising and growing the revenue streams with no obvious controls in place to make sure that the money is a means to an end (i.e. to help run the GAA and to support our games) rather than the games becoming a means to growing the business, which appears to be the case at the moment.

We need to recalibrate what the GAA is all about, and cop on to ourselves. An amateur organisation needs enough money to keep it running, and to help with facilities, coaching, expenses etc. That should be a finite, identifiable monetary amount.

We seem to be just aiming to grow and grow, and continue to invest and invest in large scale projects that may not be needed at all. So we spend more and more money, we make more and more money, and then we try to figure out ways to make even more money and grow the balance sheet.

When your focus moves into that sphere, it doesn't take long for the actual games, and the people playing them, to be left behind in the consciousness.


This drive for money doesn't fully explain or address the attitude that has become prevalent in terms of living like a monk in order to be successful, but it is a contributing factor in the way the games are scheduled, and various other CCCC type decisions.

Jinxy

Why do people think there would there be a significant loss of revenue though?
If you were any use you'd be playing.

Walter Cronc

Quote from: Jinxy on January 08, 2015, 11:08:48 AM
Why do people think there would there be a significant loss of revenue though?


I think most people feel the sponsors of the All Ireland championships will cut funding for a shortened season?

AZOffaly

Quote from: Jinxy on January 08, 2015, 11:08:48 AM
Why do people think there would there be a significant loss of revenue though?

From what Jinxy?

I'm talking about the general drive behind a lot of current policy and decisions from Croker seems to be driven largely by how it translates to to the revenue streams. I mentioned a few on the other thread.

If you're asking why Brolly's suggestion wouldn't be accepted, I'm not sure that it wouldn't, but some of the revenue considerations would be....

Direct competition with Premiership Soccer and Rugby, which both finish up at the end of May. This competition may impact attendences and will certainly impact on media coverage. Less media coverage = less money.
Shorter championships with less games would mean less gate receipts, and less revenue from TV. (I'm not sure if Brolly is proposing that, but I am :) )
Club only in the height of summer = a huge gap in the TV schedule which was perfect for the GAA. I think the GAA want to increase their profile, not decrease it.



muppet

Quote from: AZOffaly on January 08, 2015, 11:04:42 AM
This is what I was saying on another thread. Even an amateur organisation, and maybe especially an amateur organisation the size of the GAA, requires money, and lots of it, to keep things ticking over and to provide the facilities and support to our counties, clubs and players.

For this, you need a business model, and you need businessmen to implement the business model.

Our problem, to me, seems to be that the raison d'etre for the business model in the first place is being lost, and everything is focussed on maximising and growing the revenue streams with no obvious controls in place to make sure that the money is a means to an end (i.e. to help run the GAA and to support our games) rather than the games becoming a means to growing the business, which appears to be the case at the moment.

We need to recalibrate what the GAA is all about, and cop on to ourselves. An amateur organisation needs enough money to keep it running, and to help with facilities, coaching, expenses etc. That should be a finite, identifiable monetary amount.

We seem to be just aiming to grow and grow, and continue to invest and invest in large scale projects that may not be needed at all. So we spend more and more money, we make more and more money, and then we try to figure out ways to make even more money and grow the balance sheet.

When your focus moves into that sphere, it doesn't take long for the actual games, and the people playing them, to be left behind in the consciousness.


This drive for money doesn't fully explain or address the attitude that has become prevalent in terms of living like a monk in order to be successful, but it is a contributing factor in the way the games are scheduled, and various other CCCC type decisions.

This sounds a bit like the FF/PD/Green coalition strategy for the property market. That ended well.
MWWSI 2017

rosnarun

people forget thats it almost an anomaly that the GAA exist in anything like its present form. The great Green  eyed god og soccer with its insaitable desire for cash has to keep growing and growing and take out as many other sports as possible . if it is to keep fundings its players Messi supposed to be offered 500K Sterling a week would keep most counties solvent for the year.
to comete with that The GAA need more meaningful games in better facilities ,
is it possible?  does it mean fewer teams ala rugger with just 4 teams and neverending hype, or do we go the way of basketball here getting smaller and smaller each year.
I think if your not growing your dying
If you make yourself understood, you're always speaking well. Moliere

Bazil Douglas

Quote from: Applesisapples on January 08, 2015, 09:45:00 AM
I think the time has come for County players to be totally withdrawn from clubs whilst they are in the first 26. This is harsh on clubs granted but it would be easier on the player and he has a choice.
[/quote

You got to remember the GAA is were it  is  because of its voluntary ethos (bar a minority of mercenaries) remove the county player from the parochial  club set up and it wont belong before you dont have the IC player set up.

yellowcard

Brolly on RTE radio talking about fixtures, overtraining and player welfare. The ball has started rolling on this.

Eamonnca1

There's no need to choose between player welfare and more revenue. If you abolish the national leagues and play the provincial championships in a round robin format there's a ton of advantages.


  • The integrity, traditions, and local rivalries of the provincial championships are retained.
  • If you shut the back door and go to a straight knockout with no All-Ireland quarter finals, the prestige of the provincial championships is restored beyond question.
  • Abolition of the league means that the championship season (which is the real money generator) is extended but the overall inter-county season is shortened and creates more room in the calendar for the clubs.
  • A round robin provincial championship means that teams get a lot more then two guaranteed games, making them a better deal for sponsors.
  • You have more control over who plays in the first game, so you can open the competition with a bang by bringing two big hitters together.
  • It's a simpler and more understandable format than the current convoluted modified knockout competition that's almost impossible to diagram.

I'd kick New York and London out of the All-Ireland championship. GAA units outside of Ireland should be concentrating on organising competitions in their own respective countries and playing games that they have a chance of actually winning. It's time New York and London had more locally-born players in their ranks and stopped viewing this as entertainment for emigrants, but that's another story.

I'd also abolish those pre-season inter-county competitions. There's no need for them. Ditto for the lower-tier inter-county hurling competitions (Christy Ring, Nickey Rackard etc. cups). If you want to improve the standard in developing counties then do it at club level; that's what the club competitions are for. The standard of the county team will rise with it.

There's not enough joined-up thinking in the GAA.  Not enough "big picture" vision. Too much compartmentalized looking at each competition in isolation and trying to promote each one as an end in itself. Time to look at all the competitions together and assess what their roles are. The inter-county championship is a spectator event that brings in big money and inspires the next generation of players. The club competitions are for representing small communities and honing the skills of the players. The national leagues? WTF is the point of them? What's the point of the O'Byrne Cup and Waterford Crystal Cup and all these other obscure matches for?

It might sound like a slash and burn with a lot of competitions being dropped, but with the unsustainable workload on players and the sinister actions of the GPA looming over everything, something has to give.

LCohen

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 11, 2015, 08:08:55 PM
There's no need to choose between player welfare and more revenue. If you abolish the national leagues and play the provincial championships in a round robin format there's a ton of advantages.


  • The integrity, traditions, and local rivalries of the provincial championships are retained.
  • If you shut the back door and go to a straight knockout with no All-Ireland quarter finals, the prestige of the provincial championships is restored beyond question.
  • Abolition of the league means that the championship season (which is the real money generator) is extended but the overall inter-county season is shortened and creates more room in the calendar for the clubs.
  • A round robin provincial championship means that teams get a lot more then two guaranteed games, making them a better deal for sponsors.
  • You have more control over who plays in the first game, so you can open the competition with a bang by bringing two big hitters together.
  • It's a simpler and more understandable format than the current convoluted modified knockout competition that's almost impossible to diagram.

I'd kick New York and London out of the All-Ireland championship. GAA units outside of Ireland should be concentrating on organising competitions in their own respective countries and playing games that they have a chance of actually winning. It's time New York and London had more locally-born players in their ranks and stopped viewing this as entertainment for emigrants, but that's another story.

I'd also abolish those pre-season inter-county competitions. There's no need for them. Ditto for the lower-tier inter-county hurling competitions (Christy Ring, Nickey Rackard etc. cups). If you want to improve the standard in developing counties then do it at club level; that's what the club competitions are for. The standard of the county team will rise with it.

There's not enough joined-up thinking in the GAA.  Not enough "big picture" vision. Too much compartmentalized looking at each competition in isolation and trying to promote each one as an end in itself. Time to look at all the competitions together and assess what their roles are. The inter-county championship is a spectator event that brings in big money and inspires the next generation of players. The club competitions are for representing small communities and honing the skills of the players. The national leagues? WTF is the point of them? What's the point of the O'Byrne Cup and Waterford Crystal Cup and all these other obscure matches for?

It might sound like a slash and burn with a lot of competitions being dropped, but with the unsustainable workload on players and the sinister actions of the GPA looming over everything, something has to give.
misses on huge point. For the most part players don't play too much (actually they should play more). They need to train less.

Throw ball

Agree with your last point LCohen. How many players when they have no Gaelic to play take to soccer or rugby or the like.

Eamonnca1

But surely with there being so many competitions, if you cut back on the number of inter-county games they'll be under less pressure to train so much?

orangeman

Somebody mentioned that we train 12/13 times for every match ?. Surely that ratio is too high ?.

Has anyone the proper figures on this ?. Pre season soccer compared to Gaa - how long is pre season professional soccer ( not that we can fairly and / or accurately compare ) ?.