Fire in tower block in London.

[bennydorano]

Theresa May isn't going to see this out. More car crash TV on News night now, she is flailing about the place.

[HiMucker]

On the point earlier that there is a concerted effort to drip feed the scale of the fatalities.   I had considered it, the whole reporting of it seemed off, but you have to give them the benefit of the doubt. It's not like these incidents happen all the time.  However the protests at the town all, which included residents and family members of residents, confirmed that there is a severe lack of information coming forward.  Even to those who need it most, and to the most basic of questions.  Like how many people approx lived there?  How many survivors have been accounted for?  As someone mentioned earlier the numbers don't look good.  I hope I'm wrong but I fear the death toll is going to run into the hundreds.
It might not be right to view this tragedy in a political context, but events of this magnitude always carry a political cost.  It is a disaster for may, and she has handled the whole thing atrociously.   This will have serious ramifications for her future, if the events over the last few weeks weren't enough anyway.

[armaghniac]

It was reported elsewhere that there has never been multiple fatalities in a fire like this in a building with an operational sprinkler system, other than where the building collapsed.

[macdanger2]

From Rte.ie

Experts have said sprinklers could have been fitted in the tower for £200,000, but Nick Paget-Brown, the Tory leader of Kensington and Chelsea Council, said there was not a "collective view" among residents in favour of installing them.

Asked if installing sprinklers was considered as part of the refurbishment, Mr Paget-Brown said the advice was that the best way to combat the spread of a fire was to contain it.

"We are now talking retrospectively after the most enormous tragedy, but many residents felt that we needed to get on with the installation of new hot water systems, new boilers and that trying to retrofit more would delay the building and that sprinklers aren't the answer," he said.

Trying to blame the residents, what a c*nt

[HiMucker]

From Rte.ie

Experts have said sprinklers could have been fitted in the tower for £200,000, but Nick Paget-Brown, the Tory leader of Kensington and Chelsea Council, said there was not a "collective view" among residents in favour of installing them.

Asked if installing sprinklers was considered as part of the refurbishment, Mr Paget-Brown said the advice was that the best way to combat the spread of a fire was to contain it.

"We are now talking retrospectively after the most enormous tragedy, but many residents felt that we needed to get on with the installation of new hot water systems, new boilers and that trying to retrofit more would delay the building and that sprinklers aren't the answer," he said.

Trying to blame the residents, what a c*nt

Jesus that is a joke if it wasn't so tragic.  Absolutely disgraceful.  No shame.  Vile doesn't even do it justice.

[StGallsGAA]

Someone has to be thrown to the lions for this disaster.  More due to the timing of her  electoral disaster, rather than any direct knowledge of the failings ,  it will be Teresa May who is the ultimate scape goat.   

No doubt this huge 24 storey blackened shell which stands as a monument to the killing of innocents   in the heart of London's prime real estate is also making the extremely wealthy residents and developers  looking at it from their gardens feel quite uncomfortable. Phone calls to people of influence to get it demolished ASAP will abound!

[JPGJOHNNYG]

On the point earlier that there is a concerted effort to drip feed the scale of the fatalities.   I had considered it, the whole reporting of it seemed off, but you have to give them the benefit of the doubt. It's not like these incidents happen all the time.  However the protests at the town all, which included residents and family members of residents, confirmed that there is a severe lack of information coming forward.  Even to those who need it most, and to the most basic of questions.  Like how many people approx lived there?  How many survivors have been accounted for?  As someone mentioned earlier the numbers don't look good.  I hope I'm wrong but I fear the death toll is going to run into the hundreds.
It might not be right to view this tragedy in a political context, but events of this magnitude always carry a political cost.  It is a disaster for may, and she has handled the whole thing atrociously.   This will have serious ramifications for her future, if the events over the last few weeks weren't enough anyway.

2 girls reported missing found alive for this reason alone they dont jump the gun. Most sane people look at the building do the maths and know the death toll will be around a hundred we dont need to listen to lilly allen and the likes on another look at me venture. May has been a disaster and feel sorry that the queen at her age essentially had to do what she didnt want to.

[StGallsGAA]

On the point earlier that there is a concerted effort to drip feed the scale of the fatalities.   I had considered it, the whole reporting of it seemed off, but you have to give them the benefit of the doubt. It's not like these incidents happen all the time.  However the protests at the town all, which included residents and family members of residents, confirmed that there is a severe lack of information coming forward.  Even to those who need it most, and to the most basic of questions.  Like how many people approx lived there?  How many survivors have been accounted for?  As someone mentioned earlier the numbers don't look good.  I hope I'm wrong but I fear the death toll is going to run into the hundreds.
It might not be right to view this tragedy in a political context, but events of this magnitude always carry a political cost.  It is a disaster for may, and she has handled the whole thing atrociously.   This will have serious ramifications for her future, if the events over the last few weeks weren't enough anyway.

2 girls reported missing found alive for this reason alone they dont jump the gun. Most sane people look at the building do the maths and know the death toll will be around a hundred we dont need to listen to lilly allen and the likes on another look at me venture. May has been a disaster andfeel sorry that the queen at her age essentially had to do what she didnt want to.

Wouldn't feel that sorry considering her family is one of the richest in the world funded solely by taxpayer expense and all she has to do for it is show up in public occasionally.

[manfromdelmonte]

On the point earlier that there is a concerted effort to drip feed the scale of the fatalities.   I had considered it, the whole reporting of it seemed off, but you have to give them the benefit of the doubt. It's not like these incidents happen all the time.  However the protests at the town all, which included residents and family members of residents, confirmed that there is a severe lack of information coming forward.  Even to those who need it most, and to the most basic of questions.  Like how many people approx lived there?  How many survivors have been accounted for?  As someone mentioned earlier the numbers don't look good.  I hope I'm wrong but I fear the death toll is going to run into the hundreds.
It might not be right to view this tragedy in a political context, but events of this magnitude always carry a political cost.  It is a disaster for may, and she has handled the whole thing atrociously.   This will have serious ramifications for her future, if the events over the last few weeks weren't enough anyway.

2 girls reported missing found alive for this reason alone they dont jump the gun. Most sane people look at the building do the maths and know the death toll will be around a hundred we dont need to listen to lilly allen and the likes on another look at me venture. May has been a disaster andfeel sorry that the queen at her age essentially had to do what she didnt want to.

Wouldn't feel that sorry considering her family is one of the richest in the world funded solely by taxpayer expense and all she has to do for it is show up in public occasionally.

oh look, the establishment wheel out the german royal family when times are tough for the government and they need to put on a more caring human face for an enraged populace

May is a dead woman walking

[Wildweasel74]

I remember after the bradford stadium fire and hillsborough it took awhile to sort out football stadia around the uk, the sorting out of multi storey death traps especially with single core stairwells will take years.

Fire Regulations became guidance not enforcement in 2006, but it stated you have to take all necessary precautions and fore see all possible fire risks and manage or reduce these within reasonable measure.

So not having fire extinguishers on each floor as would be expected - owner of the flat responsibility to manage

Have a proper fire plan in place - again owner responsible and to be enforced by fire authority

Proper detection system in place (smoke/heat detectors) - In this day and age this is standard anywhere

zoned fire protected stairwell - Contractor issue if breached due to recent work, plus PM if it was signed off as correct.

Proper fire retardant materials in building construction - Building control with contractors and Architects also culpable
How any material was used that caused fires elsewhere is unforgivable - should been automatically banned after the fire in Australia - (This is the fault of building control at high level in the uk)
( if contractor changed material - he normally would need Architect / project Manager permission no matter what building regulations stated)

No fire breaks between cladding and previous exterior finish, - In reality this has never been looked at before but fire break at ever floor is now a must - This will take a change in the building regulations

So many issues has lead to this, another typical example is overcrowding in night clubs, again this is a accident waiting to happen.

[RealSpiritof98]

The reason there's so much aid lying around is because they all dead.

https://mobile.twitter.com/NameChangeGirl/status/876020563717881856/video/1

[Owen Brannigan]

Theresa May is soaking up a lot of the anger generated by the tragedy and it is allowing others to escape proper scrutiny.  This is her own fault and because of the political situation.  Momentum and similar groups are piling in take political advantage of the tragedy.

Here's another perspective on the situation that has been put together:



Sadiq Khan failed to step in as the person with responsibility for first responders when the local authority, RBKC, failed to work on behalf of their residents. He is happy to allow activists to provide him with cover while they attack the PM.

The initial quote for refurbishment was over £1m over the budget available and it was decided to go with one which came around £2m below the available budget with the resultant reductions in quality of workmanship and lower cost materials.

It is not a question of cuts and blame for the central government when the local authority, RBKC, has an election pot of £270m not being used until the next local elections. 

[Owen Brannigan]

Details on KCTMO:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/grenfell-towers-management-company-who-are-kctmo-what-other-properties-have-they-worked-on-a3565311.html

[Owen Brannigan]

Take the time to read this excellent article from the Financial Times about the tragedy and the factors relating to it:

https://www.ft.com/content/33a32fec-52b3-11e7-bfb8-997009366969

[Owen Brannigan]

After 9/11 tragedy in New York, the UK government under Tony Blair produced these guidelines on how to deal with incidents like the fire at Grenfell Tower.  It looks like no one has bothered to act on it at local authority in line with these guidelines and it would have to be asked where are their disaster plans?

http://cip.management.dal.ca/publications/Guidance%20in%20dealing%20with%20Fatalities.pdf