Clerical abuse!

Started by D4S, May 20, 2009, 05:09:14 PM

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We all know this disgusting scandal is as a result of The Church and The State, but who do you hold mostly accountable, and should therefore pay out the most in compensation to victims?

The State
The Church
Split 50/50

Gnevin

Quote from: Orior on May 25, 2009, 10:40:10 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on May 25, 2009, 10:27:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 25, 2009, 10:08:48 PM
I served as an alterboy for 5 years.

I went to St Colmans College for 7 years.

I was never abused (probably related to the fact that I'm an ugly hoor).



Should I be upset that I wasnt abused? Hell, now I'm gonna miss out on the big pay-out. It aint fair. Justice for all. Shame!
Are you disagreeing with the concept of the abused getting compensation to help with with the suffering and pain the church caused them?

Yes.
New low for the GAA board
Anyway, long story short... is a phrase whose origins are complicated and rambling.

Gnevin

Quote from: Orior on May 25, 2009, 11:07:28 PM
Yes, there are people in the church who used their position to abuse people. But i think people often go overboard in their criticism. The world was different then. So was society.

- Teachers used to think that canning was agood thing.
- Authorities used to think that people with leaning difficulties could be cured by giving the patient electric shocks.
- My granny was brought up in a Victorian age, and throught that children should be seen and not heard. Whisper and you got a clip on the ear.

I wouldt condone what some of the clerics did, but there are many more good clerics than bad ones.
Clearly a WUM
Anyway, long story short... is a phrase whose origins are complicated and rambling.

Orior

Quote from: Gnevin on May 26, 2009, 12:29:42 AM
Quote from: Orior on May 25, 2009, 10:40:10 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on May 25, 2009, 10:27:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 25, 2009, 10:08:48 PM
I served as an alterboy for 5 years.

I went to St Colmans College for 7 years.

I was never abused (probably related to the fact that I'm an ugly hoor).



Should I be upset that I wasnt abused? Hell, now I'm gonna miss out on the big pay-out. It aint fair. Justice for all. Shame!
Are you disagreeing with the concept of the abused getting compensation to help with with the suffering and pain the church caused them?

Yes.
New low for the GAA board

So exactly will money help ease the pain and suffering? Explain.
Cover me in chocolate and feed me to the lesbians

Jim_Murphy_74

Quote from: Orior on May 26, 2009, 08:59:04 AM
So exactly will money help ease the pain and suffering? Explain.

It will allow them access to treatment (of their choice) for their trauma for a start.

That said, they could follow the advise the spokeswoman for CORI gave on RTE Radio 1 this morning and let the religious orders that abused them in the first place look after the provision of counselling and psychiatric treatment.


Billys Boots

QuoteWe all know this disgusting scandal is as a result of The Church and The State, but who do you hold mostly accountable, and should therefore pay out the most in compensation to victims?

I have a lot of sympathy for the victims, and the way the state/church has gone about 'redressing' their apalling treatment is a low in the history of the state.  My own take (from listening to the victims) is that the best way of making this right is by putting structures in place that will convince them (the victims) that this cannot possibly happen in Ireland again.  I don't think that money is the major issue for most of them.

That said, I think the state should seize all church property that is used for educational purposes (already paid for, and maintained by the state), and this appears like a good time to do it.
My hands are stained with thistle milk ...

Jim_Murphy_74

Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 26, 2009, 12:43:31 AM
In Marino, close to where I live, the CBs have a plot of 11 acres of prime development land. It had a pitch & putt course that was used by old folks'clubs in the area for some years. Then the Brothers decided to turf the pensioners out and applied for planning permission. One brother who disagreed with the decision to evict the tenants told me that the land back then was valued at around €11 million- €1m per acre.. However, they were refused this permission on the ground that the land ws zoned for leisure and recreation purposes. They may apply again in 2012 and in the meantime the 11 acres are unused.

Why is there a need for this to stop at the irish church?  

Surely given that they were following the vatican's rules vis a vis keeping this information "in-house", then the vatican is as liable as anyone?


longrunsthefox

The Catholic Church should be disbanded and all their wealth used to help the abused, the poor and the sick. The buildings and the grounds would make great facilities for childrens centres and play areas with giant slides and Disney characters. John Lennon was rite..

longrunsthefox

I took my cubs to this in Wales last year. It was a church. Wonderful place put to better use...

This was a church a short walk from Rhyl town centre is a beautiful red brick church with a difference.

Molly Mouse Play House is a much needed clean and contemporary environment for those wanting a safe place to have a family outing. It has an enormous soft play frame for those with lots of energy, and for younger members there is a baby/toddler area filled with activity toys.

There is a lovely adult sofa room, with a television and daily papers to sit and enjoy a cup of coffee and a fresh cream cake.

Rest assured, your children will have a fantastic time and are monitored by qualified and experienced staff ready to help with any of your needs.
Would be like an amend by the church to the children of Ireland.

Declan

The Conference of the Religious in Ireland has said the refusal by the orders to renegotiate the compensation deal agreed with the State is not a blocking mechanism or a way of saying no to the survivors.

CORI represents the 18 congregations responsible for institutional abuse of children.

On RTÉ's Morning Ireland, CORI Director General Marianne O'Connor said the orders involved would put more resources, including money, into meeting the needs of abuse survivors directly.
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She said that the orders were already supporting former residents and that they were seeking the best way to help those still suffering from the abuse they experienced at the hands of those who ran the institutions.

However Ms O'Connor said the 2002 deal would not be revisited.

The Cabinet will be briefed by the Attorney General about the legal situation of the deal when it meets later today.

Gnevin

Quote from: Orior on May 26, 2009, 08:59:04 AM
Quote from: Gnevin on May 26, 2009, 12:29:42 AM
Quote from: Orior on May 25, 2009, 10:40:10 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on May 25, 2009, 10:27:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 25, 2009, 10:08:48 PM
I served as an alterboy for 5 years.

I went to St Colmans College for 7 years.

I was never abused (probably related to the fact that I'm an ugly hoor).



Should I be upset that I wasnt abused? Hell, now I'm gonna miss out on the big pay-out. It aint fair. Justice for all. Shame!
Are you disagreeing with the concept of the abused getting compensation to help with with the suffering and pain the church caused them?

Yes.
New low for the GAA board

So exactly will money help ease the pain and suffering? Explain.

In the same way as if some one crashed in too your car and destroyed your leg.  If this happened would you claim compensation?
Anyway, long story short... is a phrase whose origins are complicated and rambling.

longrunsthefox

Quote from: Orior on May 25, 2009, 10:08:48 PM
I served as an alterboy for 5 years.

I went to St Colmans College for 7 years.

I was never abused (probably related to the fact that I'm an ugly hoor).



Should I be upset that I wasnt abused? Hell, now I'm gonna miss out on the big pay-out. It aint fair. Justice for all. Shame!

That is a terrible comment... not funny and the abuse was not just sexual as there was terrible beatings as well although these sadists probably got some kinky sexual kick out of that too. 

Orior

Youse are all going to wash the baby out with the bath water.
Cover me in chocolate and feed me to the lesbians

Lazer

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on May 26, 2009, 09:40:49 AM
Quote from: Orior on May 26, 2009, 08:59:04 AM
So exactly will money help ease the pain and suffering? Explain.

It will allow them access to treatment (of their choice) for their trauma for a start.

That said, they could follow the advise the spokeswoman for CORI gave on RTE Radio 1 this morning and let the religious orders that abused them in the first place look after the provision of counselling and psychiatric treatment.



Give them access to the treatment of their choice for free instead of simply handing out money, for some the cost of the treatment will be more then €65k, for some it could be less.

Compensation is NOT the answer as a lot of people on this thread have stated

The money put aside for this should be used to provide free treatment as required, put in place measures to ensure this cannot happen again and to fund criminal investigations.

Down for Sam 2017 (Have already written of 2016!)

longrunsthefox

Quote from: Orior on May 26, 2009, 01:19:48 PM
Youse are all going to wash the baby out with the bath water.

I think you mean throw the baby out...  :o

Jim_Murphy_74

Questions and Answers, May 25th.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jHqndf9Kx4

Maybe the commission in itself is out of kilter, regardless of who's stumping up the bills.

One very brave and eloquent man.