11th night bonfires

Started by Fear Boirche, June 20, 2007, 11:03:19 AM

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seafoid

the thing  about Irish people who think they are British....the Daily Mail ran a controversial cartoon regarding the deal with the tories. It featured crude stereotypes about Irish people.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4641774/Mac-Theresa-s-deal-DUP.html

If the Daily Mail takes the piss out of Unionists and in the process denies their Britishness ....
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU


north_antrim_hound

Well they where allowed to march up the street until some years ago they stood at the church on the Main Street and waited for all the hurling supporters coming home from  a big match before they started marching
Wasn't good enough to get it done quickly and go
They waited to the place was full of Catholics and then started to March
The details are sketchy in my mind but a full blown riot ensued
Our village is 98.7 % catholic and most of those orangemen don't live within 5 miles of the place
But they have an orange hall in the village
The church is on the Main Street and has only sustained damage once by some local half wits
We had collections at mass to pay for the damage to their church
Finlay is a nasty piece of work and refused to work with SF councillors in ballymoney for years and was one of the main organisers that day
An out and out Bigot
I was never at the sitdown protest ( working abroad ) but fair play to everyone involved at the time
They brought it on themselves by having no interest in marching unless there was viilagers there to provoke
The orange hall gets vandalised often ( usually paint which gives it a very Andy Whorhal ambience) which I don't agree with
But I suspect a Hibernian hall would be burnt to the ground if it was right in the middle of cullybackey
There's a man with a mullet going mad with a mallet in Millets

imtommygunn

You do have to ask... What joy would a sane rational person get out of marching through a place where they are not wanted?

Anyone who knows the demographic of dunloy and had an ounce of wit wouldn't have an orange parade near the place.


dec

Are Halloween bonfires still a thing? In 70s/80s we would have a bonfire rather than dressing up in costumes or doing trick or treat.

Tony Baloney

I'm sure a few Dunloy builders would offer to relocate it to Clough or Ballymoney where the Orangemen would feel more welcome.

Minder

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 12, 2017, 05:21:02 PM
You do have to ask... What joy would a sane rational person get out of marching through a place where they are not wanted?

Anyone who knows the demographic of dunloy and had an ounce of wit wouldn't have an orange parade near the place.


I think the demographic of Dunloy is exactly why it was there, just to try and rub their noses in it
"When it's too tough for them, it's just right for us"

armaghniac

If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

imtommygunn

Quote from: Minder on July 12, 2017, 05:26:56 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 12, 2017, 05:21:02 PM
You do have to ask... What joy would a sane rational person get out of marching through a place where they are not wanted?

Anyone who knows the demographic of dunloy and had an ounce of wit wouldn't have an orange parade near the place.


I think the demographic of Dunloy is exactly why it was there, just to try and rub their noses in it

Yeah hence the ounce of wit comment...

Signing a letter no surrender a classy way to get your point across too.


seafoid

Where would loyalists get GAA jerseys to burn on bonfires ?
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

armaghniac

Quote from: seafoid on July 12, 2017, 06:57:50 PM
Where would loyalists get GAA jerseys to burn on bonfires ?

clotheslines?
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Rois

Quote from: seafoid on July 12, 2017, 06:57:50 PM
Where would loyalists get GAA jerseys to burn on bonfires ?
Funny you ask, I went to O'Neills in West Belfast before 5pm this eve time get something and they were closing early! Every other shop in the Kennedy Centre was open. Maybe they stayed open late last night for an 11th night rush.

Hereiam

Twelfth of July Orange Order Marches/Demonstrations: A History of Violence

The Orange community is the inheritor of a tradition and a set of religious and cultural sensibilities that purport to come from the period of Britain's Glorious Revolution, the 1688-90 Williamite Revolution when the last Stuart, James II, was ousted and the Protestant Settlement secured.

As the defenders of the Crown and the faith, then, they are truly the original unionists. But their unionism, passed down to them in tradition and lore as it is, is the unionism of a very different time. To begin with, other than its name, Orangism has no connection to William III – that is "William of Orange" – and the 1690 Battle of the Boyne, whatsoever.

What is least known among its brethren is that their organisation is quintessentially Hanoverian in origin, dating to no earlier than about 1795. Proto-Orange gangs emerged within the context of rural agitation in the north of Ireland, such as the Peep o' Day Boys and the Orange Boys. After the Battle of Diamond in Loughall, Co Armagh, the Orange Order was founded, which attempted to unite all brands of Protestantism by stressing the common interests of all Protestants.

By 1798 these groups had largely consolidated over Ireland and with some moneyed and aristocratic support, the first Grand Orange Lodge was convened on Dawson Street, Dublin – not Belfast, Armagh or Derry – on 9 April of that year. Just over a month later the agitation in Ireland reached its climax with the 1798 Rebellion, a largely Protestant led republican revolt against British rule in Ireland. In the aftermath of the crushing of the rebellion the Orange Order and Orange popular sentiment became the main force of unionism on the island of Ireland.

All of this makes the Orange Order unionist in a modern sense; defence of the Crown and the union of parliaments, which included Ireland as a consequence of the '98 Rebellion in 1801. But, alas, this history is neither the tradition nor the lore of modern Orangism. As the name suggests, the Loyalist Orange Order puts more stock in the myths of its connection to King William III of Orange than it does in its more prosaic and rustic beginnings.

Orange mythology or lore – more imaginative folktale than history – rests on the idea of British divine election and exceptionalism, stemming from the Henrician, Elizabethan, Calvinist, and Jacobian Protestant reformations – plural.

With the development of the political ideologies of the modern nation state William III, who cements the Protestant succession in England, is seen as a saviour – a Protestant messiah who finally banishes the evils of Catholicism from Britain. Of course, as a nation-building myth of a colonial-settler Protestant community surrounded by 'violent' Irish Catholics, none of this is true. William of Orange's first action as the invitee to the throne of England was to put paid to the supercilious belief that God has protected 'this Sceptred Isle' from invasion by a foreign army since the 1066 Norman Conquest. William arrived with a fleet twice the size of the Spanish Armada and invaded England with a joint Dutch and Danish army in what amounted to an English coup d'état.

Other than being all about England, the real context of this was the fear across the whole of Europe of French expansionism under Louis XIV. In this context it wasn't even about Protestantism, but about absolutism and imperialism. So afraid was Pope Innocent XI of the French that he funded William's Glorious Revolution.

More to the point, the England into which William and Mary – who, as the daughter of James II, was the actual invitee to the throne – arrived was not yet in union with either Scotland or Ireland and would not be for the rest of either of their lives. Thus the golden age of Orange loyalism is a loyalty only to the Crown – a unionism that cherishes in its most sacred lore the 1603 Union of the Crowns and not necessarily the later unions of the parliaments.

After this year's June elections, following Brexit, the Tories, who were left nine seats short of a majority in parliament by the election, announced a partnership deal with Northern Ireland's Democratic Unionist Party (DUP), which controls 10 seats. Rather than a coalition government, in which the smaller party would get positions in Theresa May's cabinet, the deal is a loose 'confidence and supply' arrangement under which the DUP has agreed to support the Conservatives on key votes allowing them to stay in power. In this case, the DUP has agreed to support May on legislation related to Britain's negotiations on leaving the European Union. In exchange for the DUP's support, May agreed to an additional $1.3 billion in funding for Northern Ireland. The DUP favours maintaining strong ties to the UK. While it has virtually no support outside Northern Ireland, where it's narrowly the largest party, it does compete for seats in the UK Parliament, where it would normally have relatively little influence. While it has moderated its positions since the days when it was led by founder, Protestant activist, and hard-line anti-Catholic preacher Ian Paisley, it's still a controversial partner for the prime minister.

The Orange Order is symbolic of an age of Orange rule that did not treat their fellow countrymen in a kind manner. Belfast, The City Hall and the annual parades (when Nationalists were brushed off their own streets by the Order controlled RUC to allow the parades to pass) are reminders of a time of the great and powerful 'Orange North' when every seat in parliament including the Prime Minister of the north of Ireland was a member of the Order and no cog moved within the machine unless the Grand Masters said otherwise.

In those days it was Protestant/Catholic but now the population is so diverse and multicultural that these ideals are lost to all but the Order and as with all wielders of power they will not let go without a fight to the death.

They can no longer do as they please, where they please because this is not the past, it is the present. It is not culture (as they claim) they fear losing, rather that once the flag is down and the parades are re-routed permanently that is the end; the once great Orange state will be filed away to the annals of history, but as long as they can walk the highways, their sense of superiority and control (even if self-delusional) will stay intact.

'The Orange State still lives... we still have power brothers!'

The 12th July Orange Order demonstrations take place at around 18 venues across the north of Ireland commemorating Prince William of Orange's 1690 Battle of the Boyne victory over Catholic King James II. It is expected that over 500,000 Orangemen will parade at up to 18 venues across the north of Ireland with a major security operation in place across north Belfast.

Most Orange lodges hold parades from their Orange halls to a local church. The 12th July marches are seen by many as anti-Catholic, provocative and triumphalist.

The Orange Order demonstrations have always been controversial in the north of Ireland. Catholics complain that the protests are intimidating, triumphalist and anti-Catholic, where the Protestant Orangemen have always claimed their marches are moderate and have tried to rebrand the event over the past couple of years. Yet Catholics have to lock themselves in their homes or flee across the border in fear of their family's safety.

It is expected that in Belfast up to 250,000 people will join parades and marches across the city for the annual Orange Order parade. The 12th July is a bank holiday in the north of Ireland and is the annual high point of the Loyal Order's parading calendar.

Violence at Orange Order Marches:

1796 – The Orange Order hold its first 'Twelfth of July' demonstration, commemorating the Battle of Aughrim.

1813 – The first recorded "Twelfth of July" sectarian riots erupt in Belfast.

1849 – As many as 20 Catholics are killed by soldiers during an Orange Parade at Dolly's Brae, near Castlewellan, Co Down.

1935 – Violence in Belfast lasting two months commences on this date; eleven people are killed. After an Orange Order parade decided to return to the city centre through a Catholic area instead of its usual route; the resulting violence left nine people dead. Over 2,000 Catholics were forced to leave their homes across Northern Ireland.

1995 – Violent protests spread across the north of Ireland when police block an Orange Order parade near Portadown, an Orange heartland. Police back down after four nights of Protestant riots across the north of Ireland and the parade passes through Portadown's main Catholic district. This sparked off Catholic riots and IRA gun attacks.

1998 – The three Quinn brothers, Richard, 11, Mark, 10, and Jason 9, are burned to death by a Loyalist firebomb in Ballymoney, 40 miles northwest of Belfast. In the aftermath of the attack, the Drumcree protest was scaled down but was maintained unbroken until the following July.

2000 – Huge barriers separated nationalists and Orange Order protestors. Two people were murdered and more than 20 RUC officers were injured. A Loyalist suspected of being linked to the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) was shot dead at a 11th Night Bonfire in Larne, Co Antrim and a man was stabbed to death in Coleraine, Co Derry. Another man was stabbed and critically injured in east Belfast.

2005 – Police were attacked with blast and petrol bombs during rioting in the Ardoyne area of Belfast, following an Orange Order parade. Eighty police officers were injured and several people were arrested.

2009 – A Catholic priest was assaulted by a rioter during violence on the streets of north Belfast on Friday night. Holy Cross parish priest Fr Gary Donegan condemned those responsible for the disorder which flared during the Orange Order's Tour of the North parade. The Fermanagh-born priest was assaulted by a young rioter as he tried to restore peace to the streets around Ardoyne.

2012 – North Belfast riots: there was rioting in the Ardoyne area of Belfast following the Orange Order's Twelfth marches. Up to 20 PSNI officers were injured and a number of shots were fired by republicans.

2013 – 12-17 July: Rioting by loyalists occurred across Belfast and across the north of Ireland after an Orange Order parade was prevented by the PSNI from passing the nationalist Ardoyne shop-fronts in north Belfast during The Twelfth celebrations, in accordance with a Parades Commission ruling. During which loyalists attacked with petrol bombs, blast bombs and even reportedly ceremonial swords. There were also at times clashes between loyalist and nationalist crowds. 71 PSNI officers including 3 mutual aid officers from Britain were injured in the days of rioting, and during disorder on 12 July DUP MP Nigel Dodds was injured after he was knocked unconscious by a brick thrown by loyalists. 62 people involved in the rioting were arrested across the north of Ireland.

2014 – Twelfth of July Orange Order marches in north Belfast pass off peacefully.

2015 – Three lodges want to return along a stretch of the Crumlin Road that separates unionist and nationalist communities in north Belfast.

2016 – 'It's about the Battle not the Bottle' campaign: The Orange Order urged those taking part in the Twelfth celebrations not to overindulge in alcohol with their new awareness campaign. The initiative, was supported by the PSNI and public health bodies, saw thousands of leaflets sent out to Orange Orders members and bandsmen ahead of the big day, alongside a campaign on social media. Members of the group previously denied they were fighting a losing battle against the bottle in Belfast, where drunken scenes have become as much a part of the day as bands and lodges. The organization's attempt to make the Twelfth more inclusive by branding it "Orangefest" was widely derided, with critics calling it "vodka and Orangefest".

Let's hope this year passes peacefully.

Dougal Maguire

This is old but it's beautiful. (Apologies if it's already been posted) https://youtu.be/HAVYZLUxaEw
Careful now

OgraAnDun

Quote from: armaghniac on July 12, 2017, 06:59:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 12, 2017, 06:57:50 PM
Where would loyalists get GAA jerseys to burn on bonfires ?

clotheslines?

I saw a picture on Facebook this morning of a bonfire (I don't think one from this year) which must have had the flag of each county in Ireland on it. To think someone went to the bother and expense of ordering 32 different flags just to burn them. Longford got pride of place at the top along with a few tricolours if anyone is interested.