The Catholic religious orders and power

[seafoid]

They haven't ponied up for the redress scheme and they control hospitals in which abortion may be required


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/government-fears-st-vincent-s-set-to-ditch-maternity-hospital-move-1.3057169

[T Fearon]

The Catholic Church has been instrumental in providing valued health care and educational services to the vast majority of people North and South for decades,saving the Governments in both jurisdictions countless millions.

Perhaps given the ingratitude and downright offensiveness the Church should withdraw their services,reallocate them to grateful populations in the Third World,and let the Government and tax payers,North and South,take full responsibility for Health and Education.

[vallankumous]

The Catholic Church has been instrumental in providing valued health care and educational services to the vast majority of people North and South for decades,saving the Governments in both jurisdictions countless millions.

Perhaps given the ingratitude and downright offensiveness the Church should withdraw their services,reallocate them to grateful populations in the Third World,and let the Government and tax payers,North and South,take full responsibility for Health and Education.

This somewhat contradicts you position on your own thread here - http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=27816.0

[Owen Brannigan]

The Catholic Church has been instrumental in providing valued health care and educational services to the vast majority of people North and South for decades,saving the Governments in both jurisdictions countless millions.

Perhaps given the ingratitude and downright offensiveness the Church should withdraw their services,reallocate them to grateful populations in the Third World,and let the Government and tax payers,North and South,take full responsibility for Health and Education.

I can only speak about N.Ireland situation.  In terms of health care the contribution by the Church has recently been reviewed at the Historical Abuse Inquiry and the results do not show that the contribution was anything to be hailed even by Tony and almost matched the depths found in RoI but on a smaller scale.  Given that the Church no longer provides anything for health care in NI then it is welcome to remove itself and go to a third world country once it has contributed to the compensation to be paid to the victims here in NI.  The good old NHS is fully state controlled and even the Mater Infirmorum on the Crumlin Road, last Church owned hospital, was handed to the state in 1972

In terms of schools, the settlement provided by the state and accepted by the Church and its religious orders when the state provided 100% funding for all aspects of education in Catholic schools in return for vesting of the Catholic owned schools estate has meant that the Church handed over its schools to the NI state while still holding a high degree of control over the governance and management of the schools.  Essentially, the church has no worthwhile assets in education in NI as they have been transferred to the state who fund maintenance and build new schools for the sector gaining an increasing control of the estate since schools went maintained.  The Protestant Churches got a similar deal but didn't keep the same level of management and governance control.  So, there is little for the Church to walk away with from the Education sector in NI when the state subtracts its input.

Religious orders and subsequent trustees also took the shilling on accepting 100% funding from the NI state and they tend to own many of the grammar schools and a few primary schools.  They also retained management and governance of their schools to some extent.  Their estate was also vested by the state and they would have little or nothing to walk away with.

So Tony, let the Church and religious orders walk away from education in NI, it won't take much with it as virtually all its assets are vested in the state.  There won't be many trying to persuade them to stay.

[T Fearon]

Why then are so many in the North and South clamouring to get into "Catholic" schools?

[seafoid]

The Catholic Church has been instrumental in providing valued health care and educational services to the vast majority of people North and South for decades,saving the Governments in both jurisdictions countless millions.

Perhaps given the ingratitude and downright offensiveness the Church should withdraw their services,reallocate them to grateful populations in the Third World,and let the Government and tax payers,North and South,take full responsibility for Health and Education.

The Government should sideline the orders until they pay their bills.
And religion should have no role in hospitals.

[Owen Brannigan]

Why then are so many in the North and South clamouring to get into "Catholic" schools?

Wanting to get into a catholic school has nothing to do with who actually owns the estate and who funds the school.  You stated that the Church and orders should 'withdraw their services,reallocate them to grateful populations in the Third World' and I am pointing out the fact that they would have nothing to take away. The schools would be no different if they all left in the morning.  In fact, in many instances, the schools would be better off.

[Itchy]

It's heartening to see the ordinary people of Ireland express outrage at this pathetic arrangement. I think the tide is finally turning on these religious orders. Now we just need our government to grow a set of balls, compulsory purchase order for say 3m for the land less 3m credit in lieu of unpaid abuse fees and we are good to go with the key piece of health infrastructure.

[manfromdelmonte]

religious orders should be nowhere near children

end of story

[T Fearon]

Ok.How about the Church and faithful withdraw their (mainly voluntary) services in all aspects of Irish Life including charity (SVP),Chaplaincies etc

[Esmarelda]

Ok.How about the Church and faithful withdraw their (mainly voluntary) services in all aspects of Irish Life including charity (SVP),Chaplaincies etc

Yes, better not withdraw SDVP or people will have no other charity to pay to.

Only for the church we'd all be screwed.

[seafoid]

Ok.How about the Church and faithful withdraw their (mainly voluntary) services in all aspects of Irish Life including charity (SVP),Chaplaincies etc

Capitalise it and take it off the redress bill

[T Fearon]

If the Church presented the government with a bill for all its health,educational and social services provision for decades,the state would be bankrupt

[Itchy]

If the Church presented the government with a bill for all its health,educational and social services provision for decades,the state would be bankrupt

The state would tell them to shove it up their self righteous holes. Tony, the more I read your nonsense on here the more I think you should have been born 80 yrs ago. In the absence of a time machine you should probably turn Muslim and join Isis

[longballin]

The Catholic Church has been instrumental in providing valued health care and educational services to the vast majority of people North and South for decades,saving the Governments in both jurisdictions countless millions.

Perhaps given the ingratitude and downright offensiveness the Church should withdraw their services,reallocate them to grateful populations in the Third World,and let the Government and tax payers,North and South,take full responsibility for Health and Education.

Doesn't bear thinking about what they did to children in Third World countries for decades considering their record here...