UK General Election 2017

Started by Eamonnca1, April 18, 2017, 07:09:42 PM

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Avondhu star

Quote from: BennyCake on May 28, 2017, 03:48:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2017, 03:12:59 PM
If we don't what the benefits of Brexit are, why is anyone bothering with it?

Well, joining the EU had little benefits for ordinary folk. Fishing, manufacturing, influx of cheap labour, strain on the services/nhs/housing etc has screwed the place. That's why people voted out.
Britain exports over 220 billion to the EU which creates and maintains British jobs. They also had their own cosy deals with New Zealand Australia and the other Commonwealth countries.
British steel and British coal were completely inefficient and uneconomical. They were going to go whether mem bers of the EU or not.
Lee Harvey Oswald , your country needs you

armaghniac

Quote from: BennyCake on May 28, 2017, 03:48:26 PM
Well, joining the EU had little benefits for ordinary folk. Fishing, manufacturing, influx of cheap labour, strain on the services/nhs/housing etc has screwed the place. That's why people voted out.

Fishing concerns a negligible part of the population and unlimited fishing had to be restricted because of stock depletion anyway. One man's influx of labour is another man's opportunity throughout Europe. The strain in the NHS reflects the failure of the British government to invest in it, not the EU and it is the people of Britain who vote for that government.  Britain did very well in the EU, compared to the period before it joined, but eaten bread is soon forgotten.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

seafoid

#317
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/28/far-from-strong-and-stable-mays-economic-plan-is-weak-and-unstable

The idea was to keep the focus on the need to have a "strong" prime minister to deliver Brexit and – as far as possible – divert attention from the government's less than impressive economic record. When the economy did move centre stage, the plan was to brand Labour as the party of reckless borrowing and ideologically-driven nationalisation.
In the first couple of weeks of the campaign, the May strategy was a storming success. The Conservatives were streets ahead in the opinion polls. There was talk of a landslide that would see the Tories beat Labour in Wales.
But as the weeks have gone by, Labour has done better. Corbyn is better on the stump than May. The prime minister's rapid U-turn has raised doubts about whether she will be Mrs T redux in the Brexit negotiations. Finally, austerity fatigue and a leftward shift in public opinion on issues such as inequality and nationalisation, meant Labour won the battle of the manifestos.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

seafoid

This is very good. The UK has a load of structural problems that you won't read about in the Sun or the Daily Mail.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/21/forget-brexit-the-real-challenge-is-creating-enough-wealth-for-an-ageing-population
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

BennyCake

Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2017, 04:09:43 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 28, 2017, 03:48:26 PM
Well, joining the EU had little benefits for ordinary folk. Fishing, manufacturing, influx of cheap labour, strain on the services/nhs/housing etc has screwed the place. That's why people voted out.

Fishing concerns a negligible part of the population and unlimited fishing had to be restricted because of stock depletion anyway. One man's influx of labour is another man's opportunity throughout Europe. The strain in the NHS reflects the failure of the British government to invest in it, not the EU and it is the people of Britain who vote for that government.  Britain did very well in the EU, compared to the period before it joined, but eaten bread is soon forgotten.

Fishing is a natural resource of a country, and should create wealth, but that disappeared when joining the EU and trawlers from all over Europe deplete the stocks, while small fishermen are the ones who's quotas are curtailed.

EU doesn't run the nhs, but the influx of migrants has put it under more pressure. Schools, health centres, housing too. Unskilled jobs lost to foreign workers has led to poor wages and less working rights.

Yes the people vote for a certain government, who then screw the place. So the people don't get a say really. They only get to chose which shower gets to screw the place. The Brexit vote was the only time when people could really say what they felt.

seafoid

Quote from: BennyCake on May 28, 2017, 04:54:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2017, 04:09:43 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 28, 2017, 03:48:26 PM
Well, joining the EU had little benefits for ordinary folk. Fishing, manufacturing, influx of cheap labour, strain on the services/nhs/housing etc has screwed the place. That's why people voted out.

Fishing concerns a negligible part of the population and unlimited fishing had to be restricted because of stock depletion anyway. One man's influx of labour is another man's opportunity throughout Europe. The strain in the NHS reflects the failure of the British government to invest in it, not the EU and it is the people of Britain who vote for that government.  Britain did very well in the EU, compared to the period before it joined, but eaten bread is soon forgotten.

Fishing is a natural resource of a country, and should create wealth, but that disappeared when joining the EU and trawlers from all over Europe deplete the stocks, while small fishermen are the ones who's quotas are curtailed.

EU doesn't run the nhs, but the influx of migrants has put it under more pressure. Schools, health centres, housing too. Unskilled jobs lost to foreign workers has led to poor wages and less working rights.

Yes the people vote for a certain government, who then screw the place. So the people don't get a say really. They only get to chose which shower gets to screw the place. The Brexit vote was the only time when people could really say what they felt.
UK economic performance in the EU was better than outside pre 73
The problem is that the economic model based on debt and increasing the wealth of the rich at the expense of everyone else has run out of road. Europe is neither here nor there , really.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

screenexile

Quote from: BennyCake on May 28, 2017, 04:54:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2017, 04:09:43 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 28, 2017, 03:48:26 PM
Well, joining the EU had little benefits for ordinary folk. Fishing, manufacturing, influx of cheap labour, strain on the services/nhs/housing etc has screwed the place. That's why people voted out.

Fishing concerns a negligible part of the population and unlimited fishing had to be restricted because of stock depletion anyway. One man's influx of labour is another man's opportunity throughout Europe. The strain in the NHS reflects the failure of the British government to invest in it, not the EU and it is the people of Britain who vote for that government.  Britain did very well in the EU, compared to the period before it joined, but eaten bread is soon forgotten.

Fishing is a natural resource of a country, and should create wealth, but that disappeared when joining the EU and trawlers from all over Europe deplete the stocks, while small fishermen are the ones who's quotas are curtailed.

EU doesn't run the nhs, but the influx of migrants has put it under more pressure. Schools, health centres, housing too. Unskilled jobs lost to foreign workers has led to poor wages and less working rights.

Yes the people vote for a certain government, who then screw the place. So the people don't get a say really. They only get to chose which shower gets to screw the place. The Brexit vote was the only time when people could really say what they felt.

Now you're just making things up. The cost per year is £160m which is not a significant number. Immigration has very little if anything to do with the pressure the NHS is under. Rising life expectancy and the cost of new technology's and treatments as well as rising wages is what is putting the system under strain!

playwiththewind1st

Surely the NHS is subject to the 1% wage increase cap, so there's no wage inflation, as such, among existing staff? However govt did increase costs in April by 0.5% with its Apprenticeship Levy & the reliance on agency staff to prevent the collapse of the NHS also pushes up costs. While it's to be applauded, the National Living Wage also meant that public sector budgets took a big hit.

seafoid

The number of 90 year olds has been increasing and they cost 8 times as much to the NHS per year  as 30 year olds. Nothing to do with Europe.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

armaghniac

Quote from: screenexile on May 28, 2017, 05:30:16 PM
Now you're just making things up. The cost per year is £160m which is not a significant number. Immigration has very little if anything to do with the pressure the NHS is under. Rising life expectancy and the cost of new technology's and treatments as well as rising wages is what is putting the system under strain!

Exactly. Pressure on the NHS is driven by an ageing populating and new treatments, but the government in Britain likes to blame the immigrants so they can not fund these things. Likewise unskilled labour is often in competition with automation.

Large scale immigration was a temporary phenomenon driven by a once off change in the structure of Europe. net immigration from the countries that joined the EU in 2004 is now negligible. Immigration from Romania/Bulgaria is behind this curve but it will follow the same pattern. Britain will be left with a lot of non EU immigration and these people will not go away and they will use the NHS.



If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

BennyCake

Quote from: screenexile on May 28, 2017, 05:30:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 28, 2017, 04:54:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2017, 04:09:43 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 28, 2017, 03:48:26 PM
Well, joining the EU had little benefits for ordinary folk. Fishing, manufacturing, influx of cheap labour, strain on the services/nhs/housing etc has screwed the place. That's why people voted out.

Fishing concerns a negligible part of the population and unlimited fishing had to be restricted because of stock depletion anyway. One man's influx of labour is another man's opportunity throughout Europe. The strain in the NHS reflects the failure of the British government to invest in it, not the EU and it is the people of Britain who vote for that government.  Britain did very well in the EU, compared to the period before it joined, but eaten bread is soon forgotten.

Fishing is a natural resource of a country, and should create wealth, but that disappeared when joining the EU and trawlers from all over Europe deplete the stocks, while small fishermen are the ones who's quotas are curtailed.

EU doesn't run the nhs, but the influx of migrants has put it under more pressure. Schools, health centres, housing too. Unskilled jobs lost to foreign workers has led to poor wages and less working rights.

Yes the people vote for a certain government, who then screw the place. So the people don't get a say really. They only get to chose which shower gets to screw the place. The Brexit vote was the only time when people could really say what they felt.

Now you're just making things up. The cost per year is £160m which is not a significant number. Immigration has very little if anything to do with the pressure the NHS is under. Rising life expectancy and the cost of new technology's and treatments as well as rising wages is what is putting the system under strain!

So say in the North, 500,000 migrants in 10-15 years hasn't put services under pressure? Health centres have to see more patients, a&e numbers rise, longer waiting lists, then interpreters for appts. You mean to say that wouldn't have affected the nhs not one iota?!

playwiththewind1st

Would love to see the bill for interpreter services in places like the NHS & the Probation Board, for example. There are a significant number of people accessing public services here who can't speak English. Therefore under Human Rights legislation and so on, they have to be provided with an interpreter, incurring even more costs.

ballinaman

Nicola Sturgeon getting rinsed by Andrew Neil on bbc 1 at the minute  :(

armaghniac

Quote from: playwiththewind1st on May 28, 2017, 06:04:25 PM
Would love to see the bill for interpreter services in places like the NHS & the Probation Board, for example. There are a significant number of people accessing public services here who can't speak English. Therefore under Human Rights legislation and so on, they have to be provided with an interpreter, incurring even more costs.

And there are no British people in Spain looking for health services and requiring people to speak to them in English?
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

playwiththewind1st

Sure Spain is nearly as bad as Greece.