Stormont Assembly Elections 2017

[Farrandeelin]

FFS Tony, vote DUP if you wish. You say they are all nice to you and all that. You're not exactly enamoured to the thought of a United Ireland either and sure they tick your 'moral' boxes. Just saying...

[T Fearon]

Irish Language Act is a classic diversionary tactic used by DUP and SF to disguise their joint failure to deliver on things that really matter

[Rois]

Rois there are no choices when it comes to Church Doctrine.Failure to follow it defies God's Word

We've had this argument before and you never answered me on why it is acceptable to you to follow a soccer team who blatantly breach the Sabbath doctrine, as well as compel many many others to do the same in service of the games. Same for Sunday visits to Croke Park, do you boycott those? Hypocrisy if you pick and choose.

[No wides]

And the fish on a Friday thing, the holy days of obligation, the purgatory thing etc etc.

[T Fearon]

It is not the same.Keeping Holy on the Sabbath does not preclude innocuous recreational activity.But abortion issue is black and white.

[Rois]

It is not the same.Keeping Holy on the Sabbath does not preclude innocuous recreational activity.But abortion issue is black and white.

No no no, others have to work so you can enjoy your recreational activity. By engaging in it you are condoning people going against church doctrine.

[T Fearon]

I interpret keeping holy as attending Mass,there is no insinuation whatsoever in this commandment to avoid work or any other harmless or non sinful activity which can be carried out while one maintains holiness status.

[Rois]

I interpret

There we go

[Take Your Points]

Sure wasn't it made embarrassingly clear by Take Your Points that you weren't overly clear on the Doctrine either?

As became abundantly clear in a previous thread, Tony is more religiously comfortable in a Protestant denominational version of Christianity, his God is an angry God demanding repentance and his Church demands obedience from all members to its strict biblical rather than Gospel message.  In Tony's Church there is no scope for the individual to use their freewill to decide on their own behaviours and where they do then repentance is required. 

Whereas in the Gospels are provided as guidelines to moral behaviour and individuals must deal with the freewill they have been given, they should love one another and forgive and be forgiven when things go wrong.

In terms of voting, the pro-abortion stance of some parties is being used as a reason for some groups to give moral guidance about how an individual should cast his/her ballot in the coming election and this can be OK except it becomes a narrow view.  They are saying it is OK to vote DUP or TUV as anti-abortion parties as alternatives to others supporting abortion but this ignores the facts that both parties are happy to bring back capital punishment, it is Ok to waste the earth's resources, it is OK to run hate campaigns against their fellow countrymen, I could go on and on.  To vote from a Christian standpoint needs to be for the greatest good.  Remember that in the end it is the individual who decides to avail of the facilities and legality to have an abortion and not the political parties.

It is impossible to vote purely on black and white moral terms and the consequence is not to vote.

[T Fearon]

I think you will find that it is the core doctrine of all Christian churches that hell awaits those who sin seriously and repeatedly without repentance.On a lot of issues there is no scope for freewill,it is black and white

[Take Your Points]

I think you will find that it is the core doctrine of all Christian churches that hell awaits those who sin seriously and repeatedly without repentance.On a lot of issues there is no scope for freewill,it is black and white

There is always scope for freewill, God provided all humans with freewill and the ability to use it. Freewill is the power to act at one's own discretion without constraint of necessity or fate.

Everyone has freewill but everyone must accept the consequences of using their freewill.  In using our freewill within the Catholic faith we have the guidance of the teaching of Jesus as expounded by the Gospels.

In reference to hell, you will only find some references to it in Matthew's gospel but these references are due to the English translation of the original Hebrew script and was carried out by classical scholars who related to Hades. Jesus rarely referred to hell and when he did it was using a Hebrew word - Gehenna which was the place outside Jerusalem where rubbish was dumped and burnt.  This was a reference included for the Jews of the time and not a reference to the Hell being used by Tony.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

Fair play to mike he is goibg to tranfer to SDLP before other unionist parties

[T Fearon]

Yes there is freewill but if its used to defy scripture there will be consequences.

[Tubberman]

Yes there is freewill but if its used to defy scripture there will be consequences.

Don't worry, you'll be dead by time the consequences come into it

[Take Your Points]

Yes there is freewill but if its used to defy scripture there will be consequences.

That is exactly the point that I have made in response to your statement that:

"there is no scope for freewill"

The consequence depends on the range of interpretations that are made of the guidance provided in the Gospels rather than in the biblical scripture of the Old Testament which is preferred by you and the Protestant Christian denominations where God is to be feared rather than loved and he is a God of retribution rather than having love for each person and always forgiving when people are human and fail to reach the ideals set out in the Gospels.