Stormont Assembly Elections 2017

[Franko]

Even if 70% spoiled their vote 90 MLAs will still be elected.
And they will get paid and their hangers on will get paid.
That would outweigh any other message

What would your advice be to someone like myself who didn't deem any candidates worth voting for? (and who doesn't have time to start a new political party, for haranguerer).  Sit at home? Emigrate? Just stick the numbers in random boxes and see what happens?  Spoiling my vote seemed to be the most logical way for me to register my contempt for the whole she-bang.

[Franko]

Even if 70% spoiled their vote 90 MLAs will still be elected.
And they will get paid and their hangers on will get paid.
That would outweigh any other message

What would your advice be to someone like myself who didn't deem any candidates worth voting for? (and who doesn't have time to start a new political party, for haranguerer).  Sit at home? Emigrate? Just stick the numbers in random boxes and see what happens?  Spoiling my vote seemed to be the most logical way for me to register my contempt for the whole she-bang.

In that case just vote for the Taigs then!

I think that's what most seem to do!

[LeoMc]

but only a sample up to the surplus amount are redistributed for elected candidates.

I wasn't aware until recently that all ballots weren't counted when transferring.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counting_single_transferable_votes#Hare

I assumed that all ballots were counted and and transferred at a fraction of a vote (which is used in the Senate elections with the much smaller number of votes) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counting_single_transferable_votes#Gregory

Depends on the transfer system being used. NI uses the Gregory system which weights the overage as per AZ's second post. The Republic does not, apart from the Senate elections.

[oakleaflad]

Even if 70% spoiled their vote 90 MLAs will still be elected.
And they will get paid and their hangers on will get paid.
That would outweigh any other message

What would your advice be to someone like myself who didn't deem any candidates worth voting for? (and who doesn't have time to start a new political party, for haranguerer).  Sit at home? Emigrate? Just stick the numbers in random boxes and see what happens?  Spoiling my vote seemed to be the most logical way for me to register my contempt for the whole she-bang.

Genuine question, did you check out each candidate (say including Green Party or Independents) and what they stood for or just not like the candidates from the main couple of parties?

[Eamonnca1]

With the power-sharing arrangement (or "mandatory coalition," as opponents of power-sharing call it) you know there's going to be unionists in the executive. There has to be because that's how it's set up. So as a fenian you might as well have a say in which unionists you want your boys to be dealing with. Might as well give a lok of transfers to the moderate unionists and give them a hand. Would it make much of a difference if enough nationalists did this?

[macdanger2]

Starting a movement!! Catch yerself on lad. And let's say I am trying to do that. (ffs  ).  I've currently wasted about 5mins on it, by writing a post on the GAA board.  Thanks for the concern for my time though.  Straw man much?

Anyway, if enough people did it, it would be a ringing endorsement of what we are all saying here on a daily basis.  That the shower on the hill are f**king useless and there's none of them worth voting for.  But it's also saying that you feel that your vote is worth casting.  In reality, it was just a symbolic gesture.  But I suppose if a significant portion of the electorate did that, instead of just lying on their ass at home, I reckon something would happen.  Either way, it's really nothing for you to be getting your knickers in a knot about.

I'm not getting my knickers in a twist at all, it would seem to be you getting a little agitated. All I'm trying to ascertain is what you think the 'something' would be that would happen, i.e. what good you think spoiling your vote does or would do?

Its perfectly reasonable to suggest that if you think there are only useless people 'up on the hill', and you think sufficient people share your view, that you consider running yourself (assuming of course, that you don't consider yourself useless)

As I said before, it would send a message that the people deem their vote important enough to cast, but that they don't deem any of the candidates worthy of voting for.  I don't know what the practical consequences of this would be, but if 30-40% of the electorate did this, instead of just sitting at home, it would certainly reasonate with our politcos.  (if nothing else, Nolan would make hay with it!).

As for the bit in bold.  That is ONLY 'perfectly reasonable' in a world where they are the only two things that a person would consider when determining whether or not to jack it all in and go for a career in politics.  Now I'm not sure what kind of parallel universe you are inhabiting but I know I'd have a few other things to think about first.

Completely agree with Franko on this. Turnout is mentioned briefly in any election but the reasons for it aren't discussed to any huge extent. If say 25-30% of votes were spoiled, that would send a clear message that more people are represented by none of the parties than any other single party. That in itself would prompt a discussion as to what would represent these people - either through new parties or existing parties.

[haranguerer]

The whole 'they're all the same' argument does my head in - mainly because it lets those who really are shocking, off the hook (and also because its bullshit).

As Oakleaf lad asks - have you really looked at all the candidates Franko? Spoiling your vote is a complete waste of time. You my not find a perfect fit, but I think you're likely to find someone you could vote for. And if enough people were to do that, then there would be an effect - policies will move in that direction, and over time, you may find the ground has moved so much that there is someone who (almost) perfectly represents you.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

Ok for the slow it doesnt matter if only 10% vote, that 10% will have a say for ALL OF US. You can spoil your vote if you want but what the f#ck will that achieve. DUP dont care that SF have 28 seats in the assembly they still treat them like a doormat and use them well when they need to so they seriously wont care if there are a few thousand spoilt votes now get real. Ps spoilt vote in STV is common enough as some people STILL after years of going to polling stations put an x by the candiadte in an STV election. Now if you want to use your vote like an adult then pick the candidate that most suits you even if thats not alot and rank the rest in order after that. Its not difficult

[Franko]

Even if 70% spoiled their vote 90 MLAs will still be elected.
And they will get paid and their hangers on will get paid.
That would outweigh any other message

What would your advice be to someone like myself who didn't deem any candidates worth voting for? (and who doesn't have time to start a new political party, for haranguerer).  Sit at home? Emigrate? Just stick the numbers in random boxes and see what happens?  Spoiling my vote seemed to be the most logical way for me to register my contempt for the whole she-bang.

Genuine question, did you check out each candidate (say including Green Party or Independents) and what they stood for or just not like the candidates from the main couple of parties?

Not as such, but here's how it worked out.  I had an issue with access to business premises that myself and others approached SF, SDLP and Alliance about and got nowhere.  After that, I ruled out voting for any of their candidates.  It ended up getting sorted through another agent, by a local UUP councillor.  I'm not ever going to vote unionist (you can shout about sectarian headcounts all you want, but that's just an immutable fact).  I wouldn't vote for the Green Party as they seem to stand resolutely in the face of any and all development/progress.  There was one other candidate from another party, who I know personally to be a total bollix so he was also out.  And hey presto, we are left with nobody.

[Franko]

Ok for the slow it doesnt matter if only 10% vote, that 10% will have a say for ALL OF US. You can spoil your vote if you want but what the f#ck will that achieve. DUP dont care that SF have 28 seats in the assembly they still treat them like a doormat and use them well when they need to so they seriously wont care if there are a few thousand spoilt votes now get real. Ps spoilt vote in STV is common enough as some people STILL after years of going to polling stations put an x by the candiadte in an STV election. Now if you want to use your vote like an adult then pick the candidate that most suits you even if thats not alot and rank the rest in order after that. Its not difficult

Very good.  I still choose my option, for the reasons both myself and macdanger have outlined.

[Franko]

The whole 'they're all the same' argument does my head in - mainly because it lets those who really are shocking, off the hook (and also because its bullshit).

As Oakleaf lad asks - have you really looked at all the candidates Franko? Spoiling your vote is a complete waste of time. You my not find a perfect fit, but I think you're likely to find someone you could vote for. And if enough people were to do that, then there would be an effect - policies will move in that direction, and over time, you may find the ground has moved so much that there is someone who (almost) perfectly represents you.

So is voting for anyone, unless a quantity of others also do it.  Is a vote for the Workers Party a complete waste of time?  What about voting for a unionist candidate in West Belfast?

[haranguerer]

You're going round in circles. Lets compare like with like - you being the only person to spoil your vote, won't make much difference, as will you being the only person to change your vote to vote for say, a unionist in W Belfast. But if a lot of people start spoiling their vote, nothing changes. However, if a lot of people start voting for a unionist in W Belfast, then something changes.

By the way, ruling out many of your local representatives on the basis that they weren't able to sort an issue for you personally seems a tad petty. And if that is how you judge your representatives, then why aren't you voting for the one that did sort it?? Which is more important, their constitutional position, or their actions on your behalf? You seem very mixed up about this.

[Franko]

You're going round in circles. Lets compare like with like - you being the only person to spoil your vote, won't make much difference, as will you being the only person to change your vote to vote for say, a unionist in W Belfast. But if a lot of people start spoiling their vote, nothing changes. However, if a lot of people start voting for a unionist in W Belfast, then something changes.

By the way, ruling out many of your local representatives on the basis that they weren't able to sort an issue for you personally seems a tad petty. And if that is how you judge your representatives, then why aren't you voting for the one that did sort it?? Which is more important, their constitutional position, or their actions on your behalf? You seem very mixed up about this.

The bit in bold is your opinion and totally subjective.  I believe if a sizeable portion of the electorate spoiled their vote, something would change.  Not necessarily the people, but maybe their attitudes.  The thing about your point is that it's every bit as likely that a group of people would spoil their vote as it is that a similarly sized group would vote for a DUP candidate in West Belfast.  So if one is a waste of time, so is the other.  It's a zero sum game - either both are a waste of time, or none are.  I say none.

And I'm not mixed up in any way, I couldn't be clearer.  The people in the 3 parties I mentioned didn't want to know about the issue I had so I ruled out giving them my vote.  I don't see this as petty at all.  This sort of thing is what we pay elected representatives for and if they don't act on a request or show an interest in these issues then I won't vote for them.  And I'll state this again.  I didn't vote for a unionist candidate because the constitutional question is quite important to me.  I won't vote for someone whose views are completely opposed to mine on this.  What's difficult to understand or unclear about this?

[haranguerer]

You're going round in circles. Lets compare like with like - you being the only person to spoil your vote, won't make much difference, as will you being the only person to change your vote to vote for say, a unionist in W Belfast. But if a lot of people start spoiling their vote, nothing changes. However, if a lot of people start voting for a unionist in W Belfast, then something changes.

By the way, ruling out many of your local representatives on the basis that they weren't able to sort an issue for you personally seems a tad petty. And if that is how you judge your representatives, then why aren't you voting for the one that did sort it?? Which is more important, their constitutional position, or their actions on your behalf? You seem very mixed up about this.

The thing about your point is that it's every bit as likely that a group of people would spoil their vote as it is that a similarly sized group would vote for a DUP candidate in West Belfast.  So if one is a waste of time, so is the other.  It's a zero sum game - either both are a waste of time, or none are.  I say none.

How on earth does that follow?! Also I don't think you know what either a straw man argument (which you used earlier), or a zero sum game, actually are.

I've changed my mind though, I think you should definitely spoil your vote.

[Franko]

You're going round in circles. Lets compare like with like - you being the only person to spoil your vote, won't make much difference, as will you being the only person to change your vote to vote for say, a unionist in W Belfast. But if a lot of people start spoiling their vote, nothing changes. However, if a lot of people start voting for a unionist in W Belfast, then something changes.

By the way, ruling out many of your local representatives on the basis that they weren't able to sort an issue for you personally seems a tad petty. And if that is how you judge your representatives, then why aren't you voting for the one that did sort it?? Which is more important, their constitutional position, or their actions on your behalf? You seem very mixed up about this.

The thing about your point is that it's every bit as likely that a group of people would spoil their vote as it is that a similarly sized group would vote for a DUP candidate in West Belfast.  So if one is a waste of time, so is the other.  It's a zero sum game - either both are a waste of time, or none are.  I say none.

How on earth does that follow?! Also I don't think you know what either a straw man argument (which you used earlier), or a zero sum game, actually are.

I've changed my mind though, I think you should definitely spoil your vote.

Your straw man argument was your ridiculous point that I was trying to start a 'spoil your vote' movement or some such tosh.

And I'm glad you've finally accepted that I'm right.