Author Topic: Top 10 forwards of past 40 years - a Board poll - Open until 21st April 2017  (Read 5159 times)

The Stallion

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I think that's a fair enough assessment. Although there are plenty who would tell you he's not even the best in his family. Eoin was pacier and more of a goal threat but maybe lacked the intelligence, consistency and temperament of Paddy.

Champion The Wonder Horse

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It's been mentioned a few times on here that it's not possible to compare forwards from successful counties with those from mediocre counties.

I reckon it is, so long as you try to apply a sensible initial criteria - one which would have eff all to do with playing style, and everything to with outcome.

Pick a player and then over the course of his career, evaluate whether his county regularly exceeded (or at least achieved) expectations. If so, then you can logically observe that his ability MIGHT have had the positive influence that an all time great should have had. That's the objective bit. After that, it's subjective whether he was one of the primary causes for the positive performance of his county. But at least there's a baseline in place.

---

I love Benny Coulter dearly. He was a bright shining light in a time of darkness for Down; one of the few reasons to pay in to watch Down. But using my criteria he doesn't make it as the cold hard facts is that the team he played in underachieved apart from one season.

There'd be a similar story at play for Paddy Bradley and his little brother, for as wonderfully talented as they were, they never really dragged Derry to a higher pedestal.

Someone mentioned Vinny Murphy above. He's a cut below Colin Corkery. So talented, but didn't deliver the big different often enough. They don't deserve to be any higher than Donnacha O'Connor or Tony Boyle (fantastic players, but not quite at this level).

Funnily enough Joe Brolly would be a genuine contender for the list. His presence gave physically strong but workmanlike Derry sides the ability to trade blows with the most talented sides in Ireland. Is that not the marker of a great forward?

That's said, he's an absolute twat for his recent attack on Gooch. The one player who ensured Kerry had chance of being the "team of the Noughties" was him.

On a side note. How Stevie O'Neill is a constant in these discussions but Owen Mulligan is an absence, I'll never understand. Stevie should have been a better player. He was bigger, stronger, quicker, meaner, and could kick a bal twice as far. But Tyrone needed Mulligan too to play at the top table.

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my 10:

Brogan Bernard
Canavan Peter
Cooper Colm
Doyle John
Flynn Paul
Joyce Padraig
McConville Oisin
McDonnell Steven
Moran Andy or Linden Mickey. Genuinely can't decide which county would have been less relevant without their appearance
Murphy Michael

I know there's a fair chance you're on the wind-up, but in my opinion Joe Brolly wouldn't make the top ten Derry forwards of the last forty years, let alone merit discussion as a possibility for the top ten overall.

ONeill

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For me, it was tight between Stephen O'Neill and McDonnell. What I was looking for was a selection of moments that you'll always remember. Not just one or two like Mugsy. O'Neill and McDonnell had many big scores in big games or moments of brilliance. The Armagh man mostly between 02 and 06 and O'Neill 05-11. Dooher had some fine moments too of sheer class. Big Muldoon too but Derry were too inconsistent.
I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.

Il Bomber Destro

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I think that's a fair enough assessment. Although there are plenty who would tell you he's not even the best in his family. Eoin was pacier and more of a goal threat but maybe lacked the intelligence, consistency and temperament of Paddy.

Ya, there's definitely a plausible side to that. Eoin had a free spirit about him on the pitch and was a joy to watch as you didn't know what he'd do next but when it comes to substance over style then it's Paddy every day of a wet week.

Il Bomber Destro

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Speaking of Stevie McDonnell.....

Just found this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=014GZe8b0bE

thewobbler

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It's been mentioned a few times on here that it's not possible to compare forwards from successful counties with those from mediocre counties.

I reckon it is, so long as you try to apply a sensible initial criteria - one which would have eff all to do with playing style, and everything to with outcome.

Pick a player and then over the course of his career, evaluate whether his county regularly exceeded (or at least achieved) expectations. If so, then you can logically observe that his ability MIGHT have had the positive influence that an all time great should have had. That's the objective bit. After that, it's subjective whether he was one of the primary causes for the positive performance of his county. But at least there's a baseline in place.

---

I love Benny Coulter dearly. He was a bright shining light in a time of darkness for Down; one of the few reasons to pay in to watch Down. But using my criteria he doesn't make it as the cold hard facts is that the team he played in underachieved apart from one season.

There'd be a similar story at play for Paddy Bradley and his little brother, for as wonderfully talented as they were, they never really dragged Derry to a higher pedestal.

Someone mentioned Vinny Murphy above. He's a cut below Colin Corkery. So talented, but didn't deliver the big different often enough. They don't deserve to be any higher than Donnacha O'Connor or Tony Boyle (fantastic players, but not quite at this level).

Funnily enough Joe Brolly would be a genuine contender for the list. His presence gave physically strong but workmanlike Derry sides the ability to trade blows with the most talented sides in Ireland. Is that not the marker of a great forward?

That's said, he's an absolute twat for his recent attack on Gooch. The one player who ensured Kerry had chance of being the "team of the Noughties" was him.

On a side note. How Stevie O'Neill is a constant in these discussions but Owen Mulligan is an absence, I'll never understand. Stevie should have been a better player. He was bigger, stronger, quicker, meaner, and could kick a bal twice as far. But Tyrone needed Mulligan too to play at the top table.

---

my 10:

Brogan Bernard
Canavan Peter
Cooper Colm
Doyle John
Flynn Paul
Joyce Padraig
McConville Oisin
McDonnell Steven
Moran Andy or Linden Mickey. Genuinely can't decide which county would have been less relevant without their appearance
Murphy Michael

I know there's a fair chance you're on the wind-up, but in my opinion Joe Brolly wouldn't make the top ten Derry forwards of the last forty years, let alone merit discussion as a possibility for the top ten overall.

Not so much of a wind up as trying to set a baseline.

There are absolutely majestic forwards at every level from junior b to senior county. Players who have that dash of class, spirit, power, whatever, that make them memorable.

Then there's the forwards, who in my opinion, genuinely win matches and are the difference between a team reaching its potential and not.

In terms of talent, Brolly is a step below most of the names mentioned in this thread. But in fairness to the argumentative little ****, he had a remarkable habit of turning up when it mattered. More of an Andy Moran than a Colm Cooper, but absolutely vital to Derry's best ever period of football.


By the way, I've watched Derry for 30 of those 40 years now. I'd grant you Paddy Bradley and Enda Muldoon no problem. Maybe Enda Gormley at a push. Not Skinner, for although he was a truly gifted player he didn't do what Brolly did for Derry. Nor has Mark Lynch. Barton was classy but not classy enough for this conversation. So I'm guessing Derry had a well of great forwards in the eighties?


ONeill

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I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.

bannside

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Peter Canavan
Colm O Rourke
Matt Connor
Maurice Fitzgerald
Johnny Corvan
Larry Tompkins
Stevie O Neill
Martin Mc Hugh
Frank Mc Guigan
Ciaran Mc Donald


meatsy86

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Mickey Linden definitely has to be up there. One of the best forwards of my generation could kick points from anywhere off both feet and had pace to burn.

Out of interest heres Peter Canavans Top 6 forwards he played with or against. Fast forward to 15 mins in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4Zh0CE-lzA&t=5s


Taylor

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PTG, SON, Oisin, P Bradley, Lindon were all well in front of McDonnell

The Stallion

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McDonnell was far better than McConville in my opinion. No doubt he was good at his peak(although not as good as McDonnell), but for much of his career McConville was little more than a free-taker.

Captain Obvious

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Little more than a free taker  ::) don't ever underestimated the importance of top free taker.

The Stallion

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I know a good free taker is worth his weight in gold but i want a bit more than that from a forward to be considered an all time great.

thewobbler

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McDonnell was far better than McConville in my opinion. No doubt he was good at his peak(although not as good as McDonnell), but for much of his career McConville was little more than a free-taker.

Little more than a free taker?

Your memory is hazy.

yellowcard

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Oisin McConville was a top class finisher throughout his career but his influence from play became limited in the second half of his career from his mid-late twenties onwards. Partly due to injury as he had ongoing back issues and then he was having off field difficulties as well which can't have helped him either. McDonnell was a more natural all round footballer whereas McConville was just a great finisher who also excelled at dead balls and in pressure situations. In terms of overall performances at county level, I would place McDonnell well above McConville for both consistency and longevity. Both very good players in their own right but McConville's club medal haul as part of an unbelievable era for Crossmaglen will likely never be bettered.