Author Topic: Top 10 forwards of past 40 years - a Board poll - Open until 21st April 2017  (Read 3649 times)

imtommygunn

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Who is johnny corvan bs?

I think mcconville was most effective club player ever but not as good as mcdonnell etc at county.

Il Bomber Destro

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Oisin McConville was a top class finisher throughout his career but his influence from play became limited in the second half of his career from his mid-late twenties onwards. Partly due to injury as he had ongoing back issues and then he was having off field difficulties as well which can't have helped him either. McDonnell was a more natural all round footballer whereas McConville was just a great finisher who also excelled at dead balls and in pressure situations. In terms of overall performances at county level, I would place McDonnell well above McConville for both consistency and longevity. Both very good players in their own right but McConville's club medal haul as part of an unbelievable era for Crossmaglen will likely never be bettered.

I would also say McConville got the short straw with regard to being deployed in the half forward line. I think he was much more dangerous inside but when Ronan Clarke came on the scene Armagh then had Marsen, McDonnell and Clarke inside and as McConville was the more mobile and the one with the best engine he was deployed further away from goal. That Armagh forward line had serious firepower, they had three or four player who could let loose and score a bucket load.

hardstation

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It's been mentioned a few times on here that it's not possible to compare forwards from successful counties with those from mediocre counties.

I reckon it is, so long as you try to apply a sensible initial criteria - one which would have eff all to do with playing style, and everything to with outcome.

Pick a player and then over the course of his career, evaluate whether his county regularly exceeded (or at least achieved) expectations. If so, then you can logically observe that his ability MIGHT have had the positive influence that an all time great should have had. That's the objective bit. After that, it's subjective whether he was one of the primary causes for the positive performance of his county. But at least there's a baseline in place.

---

I love Benny Coulter dearly. He was a bright shining light in a time of darkness for Down; one of the few reasons to pay in to watch Down. But using my criteria he doesn't make it as the cold hard facts is that the team he played in underachieved apart from one season.

There'd be a similar story at play for Paddy Bradley and his little brother, for as wonderfully talented as they were, they never really dragged Derry to a higher pedestal.

Someone mentioned Vinny Murphy above. He's a cut below Colin Corkery. So talented, but didn't deliver the big different often enough. They don't deserve to be any higher than Donnacha O'Connor or Tony Boyle (fantastic players, but not quite at this level).

Funnily enough Joe Brolly would be a genuine contender for the list. His presence gave physically strong but workmanlike Derry sides the ability to trade blows with the most talented sides in Ireland. Is that not the marker of a great forward?

That's said, he's an absolute twat for his recent attack on Gooch. The one player who ensured Kerry had chance of being the "team of the Noughties" was him.

On a side note. How Stevie O'Neill is a constant in these discussions but Owen Mulligan is an absence, I'll never understand. Stevie should have been a better player. He was bigger, stronger, quicker, meaner, and could kick a bal twice as far. But Tyrone needed Mulligan too to play at the top table.

---

my 10:

Brogan Bernard
Canavan Peter
Cooper Colm
Doyle John
Flynn Paul
Joyce Padraig
McConville Oisin
McDonnell Steven
Moran Andy or Linden Mickey. Genuinely can't decide which county would have been less relevant without their appearance
Murphy Michael

I know there's a fair chance you're on the wind-up, but in my opinion Joe Brolly wouldn't make the top ten Derry forwards of the last forty years, let alone merit discussion as a possibility for the top ten overall.

Not so much of a wind up as trying to set a baseline.

There are absolutely majestic forwards at every level from junior b to senior county. Players who have that dash of class, spirit, power, whatever, that make them memorable.

Then there's the forwards, who in my opinion, genuinely win matches and are the difference between a team reaching its potential and not.

In terms of talent, Brolly is a step below most of the names mentioned in this thread. But in fairness to the argumentative little ****, he had a remarkable habit of turning up when it mattered. More of an Andy Moran than a Colm Cooper, but absolutely vital to Derry's best ever period of football.


By the way, I've watched Derry for 30 of those 40 years now. I'd grant you Paddy Bradley and Enda Muldoon no problem. Maybe Enda Gormley at a push. Not Skinner, for although he was a truly gifted player he didn't do what Brolly did for Derry. Nor has Mark Lynch. Barton was classy but not classy enough for this conversation. So I'm guessing Derry had a well of great forwards in the eighties?
Houl on! Houl on!
You've only named 1 Derry All Ireland winning forward there (at a push). Was Brolly the best forward on that team? Really?

I don't think Brolly's name should be anywhere near this list.
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The Stallion

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I agree Brolly shouldn't be on the list. Wouldn't be in the top 5 Derry forwards of the last 25 years.

imtommygunn

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Who would derry's top 5 be stallion? Bradley and muldoon stand out but hard to pick standout ones aside from those two.Spoofer doesn't count in those 25 years ;-)

Champion The Wonder Horse

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It's been mentioned a few times on here that it's not possible to compare forwards from successful counties with those from mediocre counties.

I reckon it is, so long as you try to apply a sensible initial criteria - one which would have eff all to do with playing style, and everything to with outcome.

Pick a player and then over the course of his career, evaluate whether his county regularly exceeded (or at least achieved) expectations. If so, then you can logically observe that his ability MIGHT have had the positive influence that an all time great should have had. That's the objective bit. After that, it's subjective whether he was one of the primary causes for the positive performance of his county. But at least there's a baseline in place.

---

I love Benny Coulter dearly. He was a bright shining light in a time of darkness for Down; one of the few reasons to pay in to watch Down. But using my criteria he doesn't make it as the cold hard facts is that the team he played in underachieved apart from one season.

There'd be a similar story at play for Paddy Bradley and his little brother, for as wonderfully talented as they were, they never really dragged Derry to a higher pedestal.

Someone mentioned Vinny Murphy above. He's a cut below Colin Corkery. So talented, but didn't deliver the big different often enough. They don't deserve to be any higher than Donnacha O'Connor or Tony Boyle (fantastic players, but not quite at this level).

Funnily enough Joe Brolly would be a genuine contender for the list. His presence gave physically strong but workmanlike Derry sides the ability to trade blows with the most talented sides in Ireland. Is that not the marker of a great forward?

That's said, he's an absolute twat for his recent attack on Gooch. The one player who ensured Kerry had chance of being the "team of the Noughties" was him.

On a side note. How Stevie O'Neill is a constant in these discussions but Owen Mulligan is an absence, I'll never understand. Stevie should have been a better player. He was bigger, stronger, quicker, meaner, and could kick a bal twice as far. But Tyrone needed Mulligan too to play at the top table.

---

my 10:

Brogan Bernard
Canavan Peter
Cooper Colm
Doyle John
Flynn Paul
Joyce Padraig
McConville Oisin
McDonnell Steven
Moran Andy or Linden Mickey. Genuinely can't decide which county would have been less relevant without their appearance
Murphy Michael

I know there's a fair chance you're on the wind-up, but in my opinion Joe Brolly wouldn't make the top ten Derry forwards of the last forty years, let alone merit discussion as a possibility for the top ten overall.

Not so much of a wind up as trying to set a baseline.

There are absolutely majestic forwards at every level from junior b to senior county. Players who have that dash of class, spirit, power, whatever, that make them memorable.

Then there's the forwards, who in my opinion, genuinely win matches and are the difference between a team reaching its potential and not.

In terms of talent, Brolly is a step below most of the names mentioned in this thread. But in fairness to the argumentative little ****, he had a remarkable habit of turning up when it mattered. More of an Andy Moran than a Colm Cooper, but absolutely vital to Derry's best ever period of football.


By the way, I've watched Derry for 30 of those 40 years now. I'd grant you Paddy Bradley and Enda Muldoon no problem. Maybe Enda Gormley at a push. Not Skinner, for although he was a truly gifted player he didn't do what Brolly did for Derry. Nor has Mark Lynch. Barton was classy but not classy enough for this conversation. So I'm guessing Derry had a well of great forwards in the eighties?

Thanks for reply. I like sensible debate.

I would contend that brolly didn't turn it on when it mattered. A bit part player prior to the AI semi in 1993, by which time he was 24. One point in the semi final (out scored by Henry Downey) and one point in the final (out score by Johnny mcgurk). Anonymous in 94 (after ten minutes) and 95. Decent in 96 and 97 as Derry flopped, but padraig Joyce was spot on.

Paddy and Muldoon are clearly two of my ten, skinner and Mark lynch also. Any one of those four in 94 and 5 Sams would have a different username. I'd take Gormley ahead of brolly and Dermot Heaney ahead of both. The 80s had a young spoofer; as good as I've ever seen before he headed to st kilda. Sean o'connell was still playing in '77, so I can count him. Mark lynch wasn't as good as his father, so I'm up to nine now.

You could make arguments for Gerry Mcelhinney, Barton, Cassidy,Brendan Kelly; even Anthony tohill if Sean Cavanagh is being discussed on this thread.

Eunan O'Kane was the best of them all though.

All about opinions though, one for the bridge some night.

JoG2

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It's been mentioned a few times on here that it's not possible to compare forwards from successful counties with those from mediocre counties.

I reckon it is, so long as you try to apply a sensible initial criteria - one which would have eff all to do with playing style, and everything to with outcome.

Pick a player and then over the course of his career, evaluate whether his county regularly exceeded (or at least achieved) expectations. If so, then you can logically observe that his ability MIGHT have had the positive influence that an all time great should have had. That's the objective bit. After that, it's subjective whether he was one of the primary causes for the positive performance of his county. But at least there's a baseline in place.

---

I love Benny Coulter dearly. He was a bright shining light in a time of darkness for Down; one of the few reasons to pay in to watch Down. But using my criteria he doesn't make it as the cold hard facts is that the team he played in underachieved apart from one season.

There'd be a similar story at play for Paddy Bradley and his little brother, for as wonderfully talented as they were, they never really dragged Derry to a higher pedestal.

Someone mentioned Vinny Murphy above. He's a cut below Colin Corkery. So talented, but didn't deliver the big different often enough. They don't deserve to be any higher than Donnacha O'Connor or Tony Boyle (fantastic players, but not quite at this level).

Funnily enough Joe Brolly would be a genuine contender for the list. His presence gave physically strong but workmanlike Derry sides the ability to trade blows with the most talented sides in Ireland. Is that not the marker of a great forward?

That's said, he's an absolute twat for his recent attack on Gooch. The one player who ensured Kerry had chance of being the "team of the Noughties" was him.

On a side note. How Stevie O'Neill is a constant in these discussions but Owen Mulligan is an absence, I'll never understand. Stevie should have been a better player. He was bigger, stronger, quicker, meaner, and could kick a bal twice as far. But Tyrone needed Mulligan too to play at the top table.

---

my 10:

Brogan Bernard
Canavan Peter
Cooper Colm
Doyle John
Flynn Paul
Joyce Padraig
McConville Oisin
McDonnell Steven
Moran Andy or Linden Mickey. Genuinely can't decide which county would have been less relevant without their appearance
Murphy Michael

I know there's a fair chance you're on the wind-up, but in my opinion Joe Brolly wouldn't make the top ten Derry forwards of the last forty years, let alone merit discussion as a possibility for the top ten overall.

Not so much of a wind up as trying to set a baseline.

There are absolutely majestic forwards at every level from junior b to senior county. Players who have that dash of class, spirit, power, whatever, that make them memorable.

Then there's the forwards, who in my opinion, genuinely win matches and are the difference between a team reaching its potential and not.

In terms of talent, Brolly is a step below most of the names mentioned in this thread. But in fairness to the argumentative little ****, he had a remarkable habit of turning up when it mattered. More of an Andy Moran than a Colm Cooper, but absolutely vital to Derry's best ever period of football.


By the way, I've watched Derry for 30 of those 40 years now. I'd grant you Paddy Bradley and Enda Muldoon no problem. Maybe Enda Gormley at a push. Not Skinner, for although he was a truly gifted player he didn't do what Brolly did for Derry. Nor has Mark Lynch. Barton was classy but not classy enough for this conversation. So I'm guessing Derry had a well of great forwards in the eighties?

Thanks for reply. I like sensible debate.

I would contend that brolly didn't turn it on when it mattered. A bit part player prior to the AI semi in 1993, by which time he was 24. One point in the semi final (out scored by Henry Downey) and one point in the final (out score by Johnny mcgurk). Anonymous in 94 (after ten minutes) and 95. Decent in 96 and 97 as Derry flopped, but padraig Joyce was spot on.

Paddy and Muldoon are clearly two of my ten, skinner and Mark lynch also. Any one of those four in 94 and 5 Sams would have a different username. I'd take Gormley ahead of brolly and Dermot Heaney ahead of both. The 80s had a young spoofer; as good as I've ever seen before he headed to st kilda. Sean o'connell was still playing in '77, so I can count him. Mark lynch wasn't as good as his father, so I'm up to nine now.

You could make arguments for Gerry Mcelhinney, Barton, Cassidy,Brendan Kelly; even Anthony tohill if Sean Cavanagh is being discussed on this thread.

Eunan O'Kane was the best of them all though.

All about opinions though, one for the bridge some night.

The Wobbler, Barton and Lynch were / are far better forwards than Brolly. Skinner as well.

Champion, Eunan from Dungiven? Superb minor but it's a stretch to say he was the best of them all as his undoubted potential sadly didn't come to fruition. Watching Lynch as a 16 / 17 year old playing senior club championship was a sight to behold

Champion The Wonder Horse

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Who would derry's top 5 be stallion? Bradley and muldoon stand out but hard to pick standout ones aside from those two.Spoofer doesn't count in those 25 years ;-)

As a stallion, I feel obligated to answer. Perm two from the Bradleys, big enda, Mark lynch, Dermot Heaney and enda Gormley. By the way, Spoofer scored as much in the '93 final as brolly did; in half the time.

JOG, not a stretch imho. Ability and potential are two different things. Only footballer whose ability came close to Eunan's is Marty Clarke.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 10:31:27 PM by Champion The Wonder Horse »

hardstation

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What about R Rocks (0-0)?

Better than Brolly anyway!
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imtommygunn

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Who would derry's top 5 be stallion? Bradley and muldoon stand out but hard to pick standout ones aside from those two.Spoofer doesn't count in those 25 years ;-)

As a stallion, I feel obligated to answer. Perm two from the Bradleys, big enda, Mark lynch, Dermot Heaney and enda Gormley. By the way, Spoofer scored as much in the '93 final as brolly did; in half the time.

JOG, not a stretch imho. Ability and potential are two different things. Only footballer whose ability came close to Eunan's is Marty Clarke.

How many senior games did okane play??

Champion The Wonder Horse

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Who would derry's top 5 be stallion? Bradley and muldoon stand out but hard to pick standout ones aside from those two.Spoofer doesn't count in those 25 years ;-)

As a stallion, I feel obligated to answer. Perm two from the Bradleys, big enda, Mark lynch, Dermot Heaney and enda Gormley. By the way, Spoofer scored as much in the '93 final as brolly did; in half the time.

JOG, not a stretch imho. Ability and potential are two different things. Only footballer whose ability came close to Eunan's is Marty Clarke.

How many senior games did okane play??
None, but he's not part of the answer to your question.

Although I'm not sure why I should reply to someone who has to ask who Johnny Corvan is.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 10:58:52 PM by Champion The Wonder Horse »

The Stallion

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Who would derry's top 5 be stallion? Bradley and muldoon stand out but hard to pick standout ones aside from those two.Spoofer doesn't count in those 25 years ;-)

Top 5 forwards in Derry in last 25 years? Both Bradleys, Muldoon, Gilligan. Not sure on the 5th spot, there's a few contenders, but I wouldn't have Brolly among them.

imtommygunn

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Gilligan atcounty level? Great club player yes but county not so sure about.

The Stallion

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Derry never got the best out of him but he's arguably been the best player in club football in Derry in the last 15-20 years.

Owen Brannigan

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Last day to add your lists before the thread is closed.

Btw only lists of 10 names will be used in the calculations.

 Just listing Benny Coulter on his own won't count no matter how often mentioned by Down people as the greatest when we all know he couldn't tie Mickey Linden's laces.

Thanks for contributing, it's only a bit of craic while we await next weeks Brolly article in the Indo.