VAR? For or against

[thewobbler]

VAR is a mess.

Football is a game in which the rules are relative to context. Blasting the ball of a man's hand from point blank range is not the same thing as someone stretching their arms when a corner arrives in.  Even if it happens in the exact same spot. Trailing the leg of someone who has sent you to the shop is not the same thing as tripping up someone who is charging out of defence, even if it happens in the exact same place. Exaggerating the effects of a push is not the same as pretending that contact happened.

Var trues to remove context and make it all about fact.

Which would be tough work in an honest sport. In a sport where manufacturing new ways to cheat is a badge of honour, and generally approved of by fans, pundits and teammates, it simply has no chance.

[David McKeown]

I dont understand the handball law anymore.

What is the natural silhouette?  How wide do arms have to be to extend that?

If City should have had a penalty then does that mean you have to retrospectively punish the Silva handball because it then resulted in a clear chance or goal as per the new rules?

I have said for years VAR would be a disaster, I have seen nothing to change my mind on that.

[Cunny Funt]

I'll be surprised if VAR is in place in the PL next season, as said above its a mess and someone at the top should have the sense to get rid of it already.

[J70]

It's not VAR - it's the handball rule.

[Milltown Row2]

If a team studies and understands VAR then they'll make the most out of it.

In a real game the call for a penalty would have been waved away like it was, no issues. But because it's available then it's the interpretation of the rules that's actually causing it to be so controversial, and GAA heads are looking to have two referees on the pitch at the same time?!!

Take the clampits away from the VAR station and allow the ref to analyse the decision himself with a slow mo of the incident, he either sticks with original or brings it back. It's his call

[Boycey]

If a team studies and understands VAR then they'll make the most out of it.

In a real game the call for a penalty would have been waved away like it was, no issues. But because it's available then it's the interpretation of the rules that's actually causing it to be so controversial, and GAA heads are looking to have two referees on the pitch at the same time?!!

Take the clampits away from the VAR station and allow the ref to analyse the decision himself with a slow mo of the incident, he either sticks with original or brings it back. It's his call

Eh?

[Milltown Row2]

If a team studies and understands VAR then they'll make the most out of it.

In a real game the call for a penalty would have been waved away like it was, no issues. But because it's available then it's the interpretation of the rules that's actually causing it to be so controversial, and GAA heads are looking to have two referees on the pitch at the same time?!!

Take the clampits away from the VAR station and allow the ref to analyse the decision himself with a slow mo of the incident, he either sticks with original or brings it back. It's his call

Eh?

Some of the penalties given lately seem engineered, you can only do that if you study  the new regulations, it's no different to new rules in GAA and teams take advantage by changing their game play to get the most out of it!

[imtommygunn]

I doubt var has anything to do with it. Penalties have been engineered for a long time.

You couldn't predict anything var would or wouldn't give the way it is currently being applied.

That McGoldrick goal being disallowed yesterday was a joke.

[TabClear]

I doubt var has anything to do with it. Penalties have been engineered for a long time.

You couldn't predict anything var would or wouldn't give the way it is currently being applied.

That McGoldrick goal being disallowed yesterday was a joke.

But he was offside? Marginally yes but as far as offside goes its irrelevant if its 1cm or 2 yards. There is no subjectivity in that call unless you are arguing its in how the "lines" are drawn?

[Main Street]

The  line is drawn as soon as contact is made by the boot to ball, at 50 frames per second when the line was drawn the sheff utd player was 2mm offside but that does not constitute a reason to reverse an officials decision never mind using 5 minutes to scrutinise. I think the MLS VAR procedure works much better, the video ref has a quick review of an incident to look for an obvious error by the officials, meanwhile for the most part, the game proceeds. 

[TabClear]

The  line is drawn as soon as contact is made by the boot to ball, at 50 frames per second when the line was drawn the sheff utd player was 2mm offside but that does not constitute a reason to reverse an officials decision never mind using 5 minutes to scrutinise. I think the MLS VAR procedure works much better, the video ref has a quick review of an incident to look for an obvious error by the officials, meanwhile for the most part, the game proceeds.

Whats the margin of error then? 5mm? 10mm? You have said it yourself, he was offside. Clear and Obvious error does not apply to offside decisions, its a matter of fact.

[Main Street]

The  line is drawn as soon as contact is made by the boot to ball, at 50 frames per second when the line was drawn the sheff utd player was 2mm offside but that does not constitute a reason to reverse an officials decision never mind using 5 minutes to scrutinise. I think the MLS VAR procedure works much better, the video ref has a quick review of an incident to look for an obvious error by the officials, meanwhile for the most part, the game proceeds.

Whats the margin of error then? 5mm? 10mm? You have said it yourself, he was offside. Clear and Obvious error does not apply to offside decisions, its a matter of fact.

The clear and obvious error applies to the decision the officials made before the VAR intervention. Personally I believe they should have introduced VAR intervention gradually, rather than landing like a full blown Spanish Inquisition.

[TabClear]

The  line is drawn as soon as contact is made by the boot to ball, at 50 frames per second when the line was drawn the sheff utd player was 2mm offside but that does not constitute a reason to reverse an officials decision never mind using 5 minutes to scrutinise. I think the MLS VAR procedure works much better, the video ref has a quick review of an incident to look for an obvious error by the officials, meanwhile for the most part, the game proceeds.

Whats the margin of error then? 5mm? 10mm? You have said it yourself, he was offside. Clear and Obvious error does not apply to offside decisions, its a matter of fact.

The clear and obvious error applies to the decision the officials made before the VAR intervention. Personally I believe they should have introduced VAR intervention gradually, rather than landing like a full blown Spanish Inquisition.

But thats my point. The premier league guidance states that "VAR can be used to overturn a subjective decision if a "clear and obvious error" has been identified. "



"Factual decisions such as whether a player is onside or offside, or inside or outside the penalty area, will not be subject to the clear and obvious test."

"Factual offside decisions will be based on the evidence provided by fully calibrated offside lines."

[David McKeown]

The  line is drawn as soon as contact is made by the boot to ball, at 50 frames per second when the line was drawn the sheff utd player was 2mm offside but that does not constitute a reason to reverse an officials decision never mind using 5 minutes to scrutinise. I think the MLS VAR procedure works much better, the video ref has a quick review of an incident to look for an obvious error by the officials, meanwhile for the most part, the game proceeds.

Whats the margin of error then? 5mm? 10mm? You have said it yourself, he was offside. Clear and Obvious error does not apply to offside decisions, its a matter of fact.

The clear and obvious error applies to the decision the officials made before the VAR intervention. Personally I believe they should have introduced VAR intervention gradually, rather than landing like a full blown Spanish Inquisition.

But thats my point. The premier league guidance states that "VAR can be used to overturn a subjective decision if a "clear and obvious error" has been identified. "



"Factual decisions such as whether a player is onside or offside, or inside or outside the penalty area, will not be subject to the clear and obvious test."

"Factual offside decisions will be based on the evidence provided by fully calibrated offside lines."

This is where I have a problem with VAR being used for offsides as what you have quoted doesn't tie up with what constitutes an offside. There's two parts to an offside. 1. Where you in an offside position? 2. Did you interfere with play?

VAR looks only at 1 there so even within one rule it's created a hierarchy. Did this not cause an issue recently with a City game where I think Sterling was offside but as he hadn't touched the ball VAR couldn't comment on whether he had interfered?   If that's right surely VAR doesn't actually improve decision making it just leads to greater injustice.

In addition I would like to know do we see these fully calibrated lines?  Do the lines take into account the height off the ground of the players body parts etc? As we know from how camera's work as we usually aren't looking at an exactly square on pictures our eyes will be easily deceived if for example we try to compare someone's foot at the far side to someone else's shoulder on the near side.

[TheOptimist]

Why is it not like Rugby, where for the most part the referee asks if he wants something reviewed?