Portlaoise GAA vs Laois County Board

Started by Bueller, May 18, 2016, 12:15:17 PM

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Bueller

So Portlaoise GAA are taking the Laois County Board to the DRA intent on smashing the Rural to Urban Transfer Agreement which is in place. Surprised this hasn't come up on here yet. A massive step by the town giant. What's it all about?

Helix

Can anyone clarify this agreement to general board?
It's hardly possible to build anything if frustration, bitterness and a mood of helplessness prevail

The Monument Road

Laois Gaa Bylaws 2012...Is this challange connected to possible transfers from Portlaoise to other clubs in the county if the parent is from that other club....or have they an eye on some one from another club within the county....just asking. 8) :P
Transfers Committee. It shall consist of: Chairperson who shall be a County Committee Officer, and five other suitable personnel all of whom shall be nominated by the County Chairman and appointed by the County Committee.

•                    i.            It shall process all applications for Transfer and Declarations within the county and make recommendations to the County Committee whose decisions shall be final.      An aggrieved player shall have the right to a hearing at the meeting of the County Committee where the final decision is to be made.
•                  ii.            A Club or Independent Teams Catchment Area shall be defined as within the Parish and within the County boundary. The County Committee may prepare guidelines or criteria annually with exceptions to this which would assist the Transfers' Committee in its deliberations. Such Guidelines/Criteria are as in appendix 1 attached to these Bye-Laws.

•                iii.            There shall be two distinct Club "designations" - Urban and Rural. This will allow the Transfers Committee to distinguish between Transfers / Declarations to and from - (i) Urban to Rural Clubs, (ii) Rural to Rural Clubs and (iii) Rural to Urban Clubs.

•                 iv.            Portlaoise GAA Club will be designated an "Urban" Club and all other Clubs in Laois will be designated "Rural".

•                  v.            Normally, Transfers within the county shall be granted only in the event of a player moving to a new place of Permanent Residence which is within the Catchment Area of the club to which he wishes to transfer. In such cases the onus of proof of new permanent residence shall be on the applicant for transfer.

•                vi.            In the case of underage players their permanent address shall be taken to be the permanent address of their parents/guardians.
•               vii.            Requests for transfer shall not be considered unless submitted to the County Secretary before January 31st in any year. Exception : In the case of an Urban to Rural Transfer /  Declaration, an application may be granted provided the player has not participated in Club Competition (including Go Games) in the year in which the Transfer / Declaration is sought.
•            viii.            Declarations for a player's Home Club shall be governed by the relevant rules in the current Official Guide.


Keyser Söze

As far as I know there is this strange ruling, originally brought forward by a small Junior Hurling Club, that Portlaoise would be designated an Urban Club and all other clubs in Laois would be designated Rural.

The idea was/is that normal transfer criteria is not necessary when attempting to transfer from an Urban club (Portlaoise) to a Rural club (anyone else in Laois). You did not need to be living there etc.
Also the transfer could happen at any time of the year (all other transfers needed to be completed before January 31st).

I assume Portlaoise are arguing that they are powerless to stop ANYONE transferring out of their Club to ANYWHERE whereas clubs can freely object to transfers in the opposite direction.

I hadn't heard there was an issue and the above is my sketchy understanding of the rule being discussed.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled.......

east down gael


Downtheroad

#5
This partly goes back to a row a few years back between Portlaoise and some of its neighbouring clubs principally Ballyfin over players playing with the town club even though technically lived outside the parish of Portlaoise. In fairness some of the  player's families came from outside the county, moved to Portlaoise urban area and then discovered they lived outside the parish boundary. There were also issues around players moving from the Heath, Park/R and Clonad to Portlaoise. In order to sort out the issue, the county board called in the clubs involved which resulted in Portlaoise giving some sort of commitment not to poach players from neighbouring clubs. I suppose now that they have got rid of the debt they are beginning to flex their muscles with the County Board. I'm practically certain that they will win their case based on the "sibling" rule.  I think, whether people like it or not, parish rule is on its last legs as it's not fit for purpose in a modern secular society. All it will take is a parent with a few quid behind them to fully test the rules in a civil court.   

Helix

Will be interesting to see how this pans out. We've lost 2 decent juveniles already this year to Portlaoise (under sibling rule to my knowledge). Very hard on rural clubs to keep players and club going when you're losing lads to Portlaoise.
Considering Portlaoise only have 2 adult hurling teams at present potentially rule may bring in new recruits.
Hopefully it wont be a case of Portlaoise poaching lads in the future!
Agree Parish rule also seems to be on last legs.
It's hardly possible to build anything if frustration, bitterness and a mood of helplessness prevail

Bueller

This is the test case. The issue is not with players leaving Portlaoise, good players don't leave Portlaoise. This is about a Club going shopping. I feel for the other Clubs in the Parish of Portlaoise, they're going to be obliterated. The gloves appear to be coming off.

Junior Ex Laoistalk

Quote from: Downtheroad on May 19, 2016, 12:02:12 AM
I suppose now that they have got rid of the debt they are beginning to flex their muscles with the County Board.

Didn't realise they had got rid of their debt, that was very quick...
Winners are not those who never fail, but those who never quit!

les Antiques

I'm pretty sure they haven't got rid of there debt . Love to know that source 😉

Keyser Söze

Quote from: Keyser Söze on May 18, 2016, 10:18:40 PM
As far as I know there is this strange ruling, originally brought forward by a small Junior Hurling Club, that Portlaoise would be designated an Urban Club and all other clubs in Laois would be designated Rural.

The idea was/is that normal transfer criteria is not necessary when attempting to transfer from an Urban club (Portlaoise) to a Rural club (anyone else in Laois). You did not need to be living there etc.
Also the transfer could happen at any time of the year (all other transfers needed to be completed before January 31st).

I assume Portlaoise are arguing that they are powerless to stop ANYONE transferring out of their Club to ANYWHERE whereas clubs can freely object to transfers in the opposite direction.

I hadn't heard there was an issue and the above is my sketchy understanding of the rule being discussed.

It's only on reading this back that I realise that I may not have been clear enough that the above is only my loose interpretation of the rule in question. I could be way off!
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled.......

steven seagal

The Urban/Rural ruling was brought in about four or five years ago. There was a committee set up to review the participation levels of children in Portlaoise town in GAA, headed by the Parish Priest (Fr Byrne). Portlaoise had a representative on the committee, along with a number of other reps from clubs and in the area, and possibly a few County Board heads as well. The Urban to Rural/Rural to Urban transfer agreement was drawn up from that. Portlaoise were designated the only 'Urban' club in the county, and all other clubs are deemed 'Rural'. Anyone seeking an Urban to Rural transfer cannot have it refused.

However, anyone looking to transfer into Portlaoise (Rural to Urban) needs to meet one of the two criteria (parentage rule, recently moved into the parish) or they don't qualify. This was put in place to stop Portlaoise's habit of picking up talented juvenile players from surrounding clubs.

Portlaoise have not lost any high profile player on on the back of this ruling, and are unlikely to ever do so. What it does do is offer an avenue for players who are no longer needed or wanted by Portlaoise to continue playing football or hurling with another club, and protect the clubs in the area from poaching.

Having spoken to one of the original committee members before, he told me that the research they carried out showed that about 40% of boys under the age of 16 in Laois lived in Portlaoise town, and were, for the most part, being serviced by one club. I think that's more then enough for them to be working with, without going to the DRA to get one more. Portlaoise signed up to the agreement and gave their backing to it at the time. The problem, as I see it, is that Portlaoise were much more dominant at underage level when they actually signed up to this. Now, with the number of juvenile amalgamations, it is a more level playing field and they appear to be regressing to old habits.

OTF

Quote from: steven seagal on May 20, 2016, 10:35:03 AM
The Urban/Rural ruling was brought in about four or five years ago. There was a committee set up to review the participation levels of children in Portlaoise town in GAA, headed by the Parish Priest (Fr Byrne). Portlaoise had a representative on the committee, along with a number of other reps from clubs and in the area, and possibly a few County Board heads as well. The Urban to Rural/Rural to Urban transfer agreement was drawn up from that. Portlaoise were designated the only 'Urban' club in the county, and all other clubs are deemed 'Rural'. Anyone seeking an Urban to Rural transfer cannot have it refused.

However, anyone looking to transfer into Portlaoise (Rural to Urban) needs to meet one of the two criteria (parentage rule, recently moved into the parish) or they don't qualify. This was put in place to stop Portlaoise's habit of picking up talented juvenile players from surrounding clubs.

Portlaoise have not lost any high profile player on on the back of this ruling, and are unlikely to ever do so. What it does do is offer an avenue for players who are no longer needed or wanted by Portlaoise to continue playing football or hurling with another club, and protect the clubs in the area from poaching.

Having spoken to one of the original committee members before, he told me that the research they carried out showed that about 40% of boys under the age of 16 in Laois lived in Portlaoise town, and were, for the most part, being serviced by one club. I think that's more then enough for them to be working with, without going to the DRA to get one more. Portlaoise signed up to the agreement and gave their backing to it at the time. The problem, as I see it, is that Portlaoise were much more dominant at underage level when they actually signed up to this. Now, with the number of juvenile amalgamations, it is a more level playing field and they appear to be regressing to old habits.

In relation to above
In real numbers how many does that 40% equate to. ( we must be  talking hundreds here )
How can 1 club/ team cater for the needs of so many boys.

Like in all fairness this is a crazy situation and the GAA as an organization  needs to address  this, when a club with huge  resources can poach boys from clubs with 9 or 10  per grade.

Clubber Lang

For a town with a population of over 20,000 to have only one GAA club is not ideal. So many potential GAA players are lost as a result of this within the county as children in Portlaoise ending up choosing other sports like soccer. For a small county like Laois, who are also trying to be competitive in both codes, we could badly do greater numbers playing the game in Portlaoise. Tralee for example, is a town of similar size with at least four strong GAA clubs who all have their strongholds within the town and excellent underage structures in place.     

Helix

Once the amalgamated schools open in Agnahara potentially may make some numbers for Portlaoise.
7 Primary  schools (St Pauls, Scoil Mhuire, Sacred heart amalgamating into 1 junior and senior school), Gaelscoil, Educate together, Maryborough and Scoil Bríd in Knockmay/Harpurs Lane. Now I know of course may be difficult to encourage the likes of Educate together for example (no insults intended) but surely they can pool enough players from there.


Kilminchy tried founding a club years ago to my knowledge but fell apart. So second club has been tried.
It's hardly possible to build anything if frustration, bitterness and a mood of helplessness prevail