Antrim Hurling

Started by milltown row, January 26, 2007, 11:21:26 AM

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WTF u on about?

Just how are the smaller clubs expected to progress with a seeded draw. There's not much incentive in staying senior if ur gettin hammered in the first round every year. The one year there was a draw that gave the smaller clubs all something to play for sure didn't the 'big clubs' shite themselves and the draw got changed to a seeded one.

btdtgtt

Quote from: WTF u on about? on November 24, 2015, 07:02:02 PM
Just how are the smaller clubs expected to progress with a seeded draw. There's not much incentive in staying senior if ur gettin hammered in the first round every year. The one year there was a draw that gave the smaller clubs all something to play for sure didn't the 'big clubs' shite themselves and the draw got changed to a seeded one.

I agree with the seeded draw to be fair.

I think it's a better ambition/incentive to progress yourself against a top team and even cause a shock - that it's is to hope for a soft miracle draw like 2014.

Also - Loughgiel didn't give St Galls the hammering anyone may have thought!

WTF u on about?

Quote from: btdtgtt on November 24, 2015, 07:10:10 PM
Quote from: WTF u on about? on November 24, 2015, 07:02:02 PM
Just how are the smaller clubs expected to progress with a seeded draw. There's not much incentive in staying senior if ur gettin hammered in the first round every year. The one year there was a draw that gave the smaller clubs all something to play for sure didn't the 'big clubs' shite themselves and the draw got changed to a seeded one.

I agree with the seeded draw to be fair.

I think it's a better ambition/incentive to progress yourself against a top team and even cause a shock - that it's is to hope for a soft miracle draw like 2014.

Also - Loughgiel didn't give St Galls the hammering anyone may have thought!

I know u can't expect that sort of draw every year but perhaps they should change the format to something like the derry football championship were every team is guaranteed two games. Sometimes all a team needs is that first win to give them the confidence to go further aka monkey off the back.
Also on the suiting the big clubs issue no promotion from division 2 this year was an absolute joke.

btdtgtt

No promotion from a league - was indeed an absolute joke.
I still believe we should play the leagues off and top 4 seeded for semis.
Therefore league becomes meaningful and in essence a pseudo championship.
But that would require club fixtures to be unhindered by county teams ;)

imtommygunn

#30754
Quote from: WTF u on about? on November 24, 2015, 07:02:02 PM
Just how are the smaller clubs expected to progress with a seeded draw. There's not much incentive in staying senior if ur gettin hammered in the first round every year. The one year there was a draw that gave the smaller clubs all something to play for sure didn't the 'big clubs' shite themselves and the draw got changed to a seeded one.

Unless they seed it like the football last year where it's seeded but it's not :-[

More games might mean some championship hurling in the summer. Both football and hurling start far too late in antrim.

MoChara

Quote from: btdtgtt on November 24, 2015, 07:10:10 PM
Quote from: WTF u on about? on November 24, 2015, 07:02:02 PM
Just how are the smaller clubs expected to progress with a seeded draw. There's not much incentive in staying senior if ur gettin hammered in the first round every year. The one year there was a draw that gave the smaller clubs all something to play for sure didn't the 'big clubs' shite themselves and the draw got changed to a seeded one.

I agree with the seeded draw to be fair.

I think it's a better ambition/incentive to progress yourself against a top team and even cause a shock - that it's is to hope for a soft miracle draw like 2014.

Also - Loughgiel didn't give St Galls the hammering anyone may have thought!

Your big fella McGourty in full back that day played a blinder, I wonder was he at the Antrim trials.

Gizzy15

Quote from: cfclg on November 24, 2015, 12:51:37 PM
Quote from: cfclg on November 24, 2015, 12:48:52 PM
Quote from: Dunloy realist on November 24, 2015, 10:31:34 AM
I think thats just fanciful thinking there folks. Teams in KK dont want to drop down, they get relegated if they aint up to the standard. No club wants to drop down in KK. Rossa were a senior club that dropped down by their own doings and won the intermediate championship at a canter in antrim and ulster.

Im not making little of Rossas achievement on winning an all ireland, it was an unreal achievement and something they should be extremely proud of.

Clubs in antrim decide if they want to stay in a championship. Cloughmills came up to senior, gave it a go, didnt progress and dropped back down again. I would of liked to see them stick at it and keep going in it. Same with Ahoghill. I hope that Creggan will give it a real go and stick at senior as well. it can only be good for our club game with more teams competing for the Vol cup. Upsets happen in championship hurling!

Totally agree with your points here. Clubs in Antrim are continually pondering what cship to enter rather than fighting hard to be the best they can and not dropping down. Our structure doesn't help them obviously with no relegation play offs etc. I have always felt that this would eb a good idea but then clubs might start throwing these games so they could move down, you cant win. Main point is that in KK they all want to be at the top table.

MR2, whats St Galls plans for cship 2016? Remain senior or drop down? I have the same question for anyone from Ahoghill on here?

I'm hearing St Pauls are entering JHC, what about Cushendun and Armoy, will they also enter the junior competition?? So many possibilities............


Its all very well clubs dropping down to give themselves a sense of achievement, but what about the Junior clubs? they have nowhere else to drop down to. I think its the job of the CB to put an end to allowing people to cherry pick their championship as very rarely people will decide to pick to go up therefor the whole process systematically leads to regression. I have a feeling though the CB allow this as it gives them stronger representation in Ulster/ All Ireland from clubs who decide to drop down a level to compete.

paddyjohn

Quote from: Gizzy15 on November 25, 2015, 08:58:48 AM
Quote from: cfclg on November 24, 2015, 12:51:37 PM
Quote from: cfclg on November 24, 2015, 12:48:52 PM
Quote from: Dunloy realist on November 24, 2015, 10:31:34 AM
I think thats just fanciful thinking there folks. Teams in KK dont want to drop down, they get relegated if they aint up to the standard. No club wants to drop down in KK. Rossa were a senior club that dropped down by their own doings and won the intermediate championship at a canter in antrim and ulster.

Im not making little of Rossas achievement on winning an all ireland, it was an unreal achievement and something they should be extremely proud of.

Clubs in antrim decide if they want to stay in a championship. Cloughmills came up to senior, gave it a go, didnt progress and dropped back down again. I would of liked to see them stick at it and keep going in it. Same with Ahoghill. I hope that Creggan will give it a real go and stick at senior as well. it can only be good for our club game with more teams competing for the Vol cup. Upsets happen in championship hurling!

Totally agree with your points here. Clubs in Antrim are continually pondering what cship to enter rather than fighting hard to be the best they can and not dropping down. Our structure doesn't help them obviously with no relegation play offs etc. I have always felt that this would eb a good idea but then clubs might start throwing these games so they could move down, you cant win. Main point is that in KK they all want to be at the top table.

MR2, whats St Galls plans for cship 2016? Remain senior or drop down? I have the same question for anyone from Ahoghill on here?

I'm hearing St Pauls are entering JHC, what about Cushendun and Armoy, will they also enter the junior competition?? So many possibilities............


Its all very well clubs dropping down to give themselves a sense of achievement, but what about the Junior clubs? they have nowhere else to drop down to. I think its the job of the CB to put an end to allowing people to cherry pick their championship as very rarely people will decide to pick to go up therefor the whole process systematically leads to regression. I have a feeling though the CB allow this as it gives them stronger representation in Ulster/ All Ireland from clubs who decide to drop down a level to compete.


Look at the clubs in the last few years that have been accused of cherry picking their championships on here or on other forums,


Lamh Dhearg JHC last year- Didn't win it.
Glenravel JFC 2012 & last year - Didn't win it
Moneyglass IFC last year- Didn't win it.

Clearly these clubs were at their level of playing these competitions and factors within the club dictated them doing so.




theskull1

For clubs who've typically been successful at junior/intermediatte level, it must take great leadership to convince a team/club going forward that its better to be competing in the senior championship than winning intermediate. Fair play to the likes of Rossa and St Johns ;)
It's a lot easier to sing karaoke than to sing opera

Gizzy15

Quote from: paddyjohn on November 25, 2015, 09:19:25 AM
Quote from: Gizzy15 on November 25, 2015, 08:58:48 AM
Quote from: cfclg on November 24, 2015, 12:51:37 PM
Quote from: cfclg on November 24, 2015, 12:48:52 PM
Quote from: Dunloy realist on November 24, 2015, 10:31:34 AM
I think thats just fanciful thinking there folks. Teams in KK dont want to drop down, they get relegated if they aint up to the standard. No club wants to drop down in KK. Rossa were a senior club that dropped down by their own doings and won the intermediate championship at a canter in antrim and ulster.

Im not making little of Rossas achievement on winning an all ireland, it was an unreal achievement and something they should be extremely proud of.

Clubs in antrim decide if they want to stay in a championship. Cloughmills came up to senior, gave it a go, didnt progress and dropped back down again. I would of liked to see them stick at it and keep going in it. Same with Ahoghill. I hope that Creggan will give it a real go and stick at senior as well. it can only be good for our club game with more teams competing for the Vol cup. Upsets happen in championship hurling!

Totally agree with your points here. Clubs in Antrim are continually pondering what cship to enter rather than fighting hard to be the best they can and not dropping down. Our structure doesn't help them obviously with no relegation play offs etc. I have always felt that this would eb a good idea but then clubs might start throwing these games so they could move down, you cant win. Main point is that in KK they all want to be at the top table.

MR2, whats St Galls plans for cship 2016? Remain senior or drop down? I have the same question for anyone from Ahoghill on here?

I'm hearing St Pauls are entering JHC, what about Cushendun and Armoy, will they also enter the junior competition?? So many possibilities............


Its all very well clubs dropping down to give themselves a sense of achievement, but what about the Junior clubs? they have nowhere else to drop down to. I think its the job of the CB to put an end to allowing people to cherry pick their championship as very rarely people will decide to pick to go up therefor the whole process systematically leads to regression. I have a feeling though the CB allow this as it gives them stronger representation in Ulster/ All Ireland from clubs who decide to drop down a level to compete.


Look at the clubs in the last few years that have been accused of cherry picking their championships on here or on other forums,


Lamh Dhearg JHC last year- Didn't win it.
Glenravel JFC 2012 & last year - Didn't win it
Moneyglass IFC last year- Didn't win it.

Clearly these clubs were at their level of playing these competitions and factors within the club dictated them doing so.

Nice Cherry picked answers also don't have much time here but Davitts in JFC a few times recently Ahoghill in JFC 2007 Rossa IHC Hurling 2014

Na Glinntí Glasa

Quote from: btdtgtt on November 24, 2015, 08:54:59 PM
No promotion from a league - was indeed an absolute joke.
I still believe we should play the leagues off and top 4 seeded for semis.
Therefore league becomes meaningful and in essence a pseudo championship.
But that would require club fixtures to be unhindered by county teams ;)

Please no!!!  ;D

we did that once and we lost one game all year and it was the county final. Thats too hard to stomach again.

Its a nice idea but it taks away from that one glory day of an upset for a club. I like the open draw system, there are no dead rubber games, its all or nothing on the day. One slip and your out and thats the way it should be. No back door, no second chance, gone. End of.

With us being a seeded club i dont see the point to it. Im happy to draw Cdall, Lgiel, St Galls etc in the first round. Your going to have to beat some of these clubs at some point to win the championship so its beat them at the start or the final.
hurl like f**k boi!

paddyjohn

Quote from: Gizzy15 on November 25, 2015, 09:24:41 AM
Quote from: paddyjohn on November 25, 2015, 09:19:25 AM
Quote from: Gizzy15 on November 25, 2015, 08:58:48 AM
Quote from: cfclg on November 24, 2015, 12:51:37 PM
Quote from: cfclg on November 24, 2015, 12:48:52 PM
Quote from: Dunloy realist on November 24, 2015, 10:31:34 AM
I think thats just fanciful thinking there folks. Teams in KK dont want to drop down, they get relegated if they aint up to the standard. No club wants to drop down in KK. Rossa were a senior club that dropped down by their own doings and won the intermediate championship at a canter in antrim and ulster.

Im not making little of Rossas achievement on winning an all ireland, it was an unreal achievement and something they should be extremely proud of.

Clubs in antrim decide if they want to stay in a championship. Cloughmills came up to senior, gave it a go, didnt progress and dropped back down again. I would of liked to see them stick at it and keep going in it. Same with Ahoghill. I hope that Creggan will give it a real go and stick at senior as well. it can only be good for our club game with more teams competing for the Vol cup. Upsets happen in championship hurling!

Totally agree with your points here. Clubs in Antrim are continually pondering what cship to enter rather than fighting hard to be the best they can and not dropping down. Our structure doesn't help them obviously with no relegation play offs etc. I have always felt that this would eb a good idea but then clubs might start throwing these games so they could move down, you cant win. Main point is that in KK they all want to be at the top table.

MR2, whats St Galls plans for cship 2016? Remain senior or drop down? I have the same question for anyone from Ahoghill on here?

I'm hearing St Pauls are entering JHC, what about Cushendun and Armoy, will they also enter the junior competition?? So many possibilities............


Its all very well clubs dropping down to give themselves a sense of achievement, but what about the Junior clubs? they have nowhere else to drop down to. I think its the job of the CB to put an end to allowing people to cherry pick their championship as very rarely people will decide to pick to go up therefor the whole process systematically leads to regression. I have a feeling though the CB allow this as it gives them stronger representation in Ulster/ All Ireland from clubs who decide to drop down a level to compete.


Look at the clubs in the last few years that have been accused of cherry picking their championships on here or on other forums,


Lamh Dhearg JHC last year- Didn't win it.
Glenravel JFC 2012 & last year - Didn't win it
Moneyglass IFC last year- Didn't win it.

Clearly these clubs were at their level of playing these competitions and factors within the club dictated them doing so.

Nice Cherry picked answers also don't have much time here but Davitts in JFC a few times recently Ahoghill in JFC 2007 Rossa IHC Hurling 2014

Those were off the top of my head.. Also time is an issue here,

I'll give you Rossa 2014 but surely Davitts are a Div 3 club so therefore entitled to play JFC?


btdtgtt

Quote from: Dunloy realist on November 25, 2015, 09:25:18 AM
Quote from: btdtgtt on November 24, 2015, 08:54:59 PM
No promotion from a league - was indeed an absolute joke.
I still believe we should play the leagues off and top 4 seeded for semis.
Therefore league becomes meaningful and in essence a pseudo championship.
But that would require club fixtures to be unhindered by county teams ;)

Please no!!!  ;D

we did that once and we lost one game all year and it was the county final. Thats too hard to stomach again.

Its a nice idea but it taks away from that one glory day of an upset for a club. I like the open draw system, there are no dead rubber games, its all or nothing on the day. One slip and your out and thats the way it should be. No back door, no second chance, gone. End of.

With us being a seeded club i dont see the point to it. Im happy to draw Cdall, Lgiel, St Galls etc in the first round. Your going to have to beat some of these clubs at some point to win the championship so its beat them at the start or the final.

I agree no back door!
Once the league is finished in say September - the championship would be straight knockout.
The seeding would come from the league just finished.
So clubs would be genuinely competing in a more meaningful league - to get a favourable champuionship draw.
But once the draw is made - it pure knock out with upsets there to be made!


Na Glinntí Glasa

#30763
Ive always liked the idea of a promotion/relegation in the championship. Say the winners of the intermediate go striaght up with the losers to have a play off with the team that won the relegation play offs in the senior e.g Cloney v St.Galls with the senior loser going down straight away. The winner of the play off plays the beaten intermediate finalists (Carey) to see who went where.

It might not work straight away but it would give an added interest in the season for teams to want to remain in the senior championship as opposed to just deciding to drop out.

It could be implemented into the intermediate/junior as well. Clubs with real ambition would be rewarded with the chance to go up a level. I know that Glenmore were extremly disappointed to drop to junior from reading up on it. Christy heffernan himself was interviewed after they won the junior and they were overjoyed at getting back to the intermediate championship again.
hurl like f**k boi!

theskull1

Would many intermediate final losers want to move up to senior without having a bit of silverware at the dinner dance? I'd doubt it as many will want the provincial/all ireland campaign beforehand.

It's a lot easier to sing karaoke than to sing opera