Money, Dublin and the GAA

Started by IolarCoisCuain, October 04, 2016, 07:27:37 PM

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kerryforsam19

#1725
Quote from: mup on June 25, 2019, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on June 25, 2019, 04:59:18 PM
Quote from: mup on June 25, 2019, 04:29:29 PM
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on June 25, 2019, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: mup on June 25, 2019, 02:51:02 PM
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on June 25, 2019, 02:28:36 PM
Quote from: mup on June 25, 2019, 12:54:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2019, 12:25:15 PM
Quote from: mup on June 25, 2019, 11:40:10 AM
Quote from: stephenite on June 25, 2019, 10:42:01 AM
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on June 25, 2019, 07:21:49 AM
McStay was getting 150k a year managing Roscommon.

Rubbish

I'd actually love to know where people pull these figures from?

I think the figure tells you how seriously you should take kerryforsam19.

Well one or two more are throwing out the same regarding other managers. When asked to provide the evidence they go missing.

Empty vessels..................

Mick O'Dwyer had a apartment and car provided by kildare county board. I know that for a fact as he Micko good friends with my father in law. He was paid too.

Refer to my previous post.

They could have provided him with a better car so.

Sure he was doing for love of the game. Same with Brian Lacey, Karl Dwyer, John Divilly, Cathal Sheridan and the OConnor brothers(playing with moorefield) and Seanie Johnston.

Sure thing. It's not like Kerry GAA ever has an outsider amongst their ranks. Oh God no.

Homegrown talent all the way. Peter Keane or backroom of team  don't get a penny bar expenses.

You seem to know a good few Kildare imports butnone from Kerry?

I'll leave that one with you.

Kerry footballers don't have any outside manager/players... the hurlers had a couple lads from Tipp. Sure they was 16 kerry footballers on pitch when ye beat us in 98

mup

Quote from: kerryforsam19 on June 25, 2019, 05:24:00 PM
Quote from: mup on June 25, 2019, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on June 25, 2019, 04:59:18 PM
Quote from: mup on June 25, 2019, 04:29:29 PM
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on June 25, 2019, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: mup on June 25, 2019, 02:51:02 PM
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on June 25, 2019, 02:28:36 PM
Quote from: mup on June 25, 2019, 12:54:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2019, 12:25:15 PM
Quote from: mup on June 25, 2019, 11:40:10 AM
Quote from: stephenite on June 25, 2019, 10:42:01 AM
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on June 25, 2019, 07:21:49 AM
McStay was getting 150k a year managing Roscommon.

Rubbish

I'd actually love to know where people pull these figures from?

I think the figure tells you how seriously you should take kerryforsam19.

Well one or two more are throwing out the same regarding other managers. When asked to provide the evidence they go missing.

Empty vessels..................

Mick O'Dwyer had a apartment and car provided by kildare county board. I know that for a fact as he Micko good friends with my father in law. He was paid too.

Refer to my previous post.

They could have provided him with a better car so.

Sure he was doing for love of the game. Same with Brian Lacey, Karl Dwyer, John Divilly, Cathal Sheridan and the OConnor brothers(playing with moorefield) and Seanie Johnston.

Sure thing. It's not like Kerry GAA ever has an outsider amongst their ranks. Oh God no.

Homegrown talent all the way. Peter Keane or backroom of team  don't get a penny bar expenses.

You seem to know a good few Kildare imports butnone from Kerry?

I'll leave that one with you.

Kerry footballers don't have any outside manager/players... the hurlers had a couple lads from Tipp. Sure they was 16 kerry footballers on pitch when best us in 98 😉😉

Ah now we're getting to the nub of your problem. 21 years years ago and it still hurts. And you know what? That goal was prefectly legit. Makes it worse doesn't it? The fact that ye've hammered us in recent years doesn't even make up the hurt. We didn't go on to win yhe AI but it was a pleasure to see the animals green that day.

Its good to talk though.

kerryforsam19

Quote from: mup on June 25, 2019, 05:31:41 PM
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on June 25, 2019, 05:24:00 PM
Quote from: mup on June 25, 2019, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on June 25, 2019, 04:59:18 PM
Quote from: mup on June 25, 2019, 04:29:29 PM
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on June 25, 2019, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: mup on June 25, 2019, 02:51:02 PM
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on June 25, 2019, 02:28:36 PM
Quote from: mup on June 25, 2019, 12:54:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2019, 12:25:15 PM
Quote from: mup on June 25, 2019, 11:40:10 AM
Quote from: stephenite on June 25, 2019, 10:42:01 AM
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on June 25, 2019, 07:21:49 AM
McStay was getting 150k a year managing Roscommon.

Rubbish

I'd actually love to know where people pull these figures from?

I think the figure tells you how seriously you should take kerryforsam19.

Well one or two more are throwing out the same regarding other managers. When asked to provide the evidence they go missing.

Empty vessels..................

Mick O'Dwyer had a apartment and car provided by kildare county board. I know that for a fact as he Micko good friends with my father in law. He was paid too.

Refer to my previous post.

They could have provided him with a better car so.

Sure he was doing for love of the game. Same with Brian Lacey, Karl Dwyer, John Divilly, Cathal Sheridan and the OConnor brothers(playing with moorefield) and Seanie Johnston.

Sure thing. It's not like Kerry GAA ever has an outsider amongst their ranks. Oh God no.

Homegrown talent all the way. Peter Keane or backroom of team  don't get a penny bar expenses.

You seem to know a good few Kildare imports butnone from Kerry?

I'll leave that one with you.

Kerry footballers don't have any outside manager/players... the hurlers had a couple lads from Tipp. Sure they was 16 kerry footballers on pitch when best us in 98 😉😉

Ah now we're getting to the nub of your problem. 21 years years ago and it still hurts. And you know what? That goal was prefectly legit. Makes it worse doesn't it? The fact that ye've hammered us in recent years doesn't even make up the hurt. We didn't go on to win yhe AI but it was a pleasure to see the animals green that day.

Its good to talk though.

Haha and no medals for winning that 🤣🤣🤣 big bottle job in final. Listen we wouldn't grumble about the referee. We just didn't show on the day. MF Russell and maurice Fitz weren't fully that day either. Karl was the best Kerry player on the field 😉

Dinny Breen

Moving along and bringing the thread back to it's roots.

Not his biggest fan but Turlough O'Brien penned an interesting blog yesterday

https://rotharroutes.com/2019/06/25/dublin-funding-and-tiers/

QuoteDublin, Funding and Tiers...

Twitter is such an angry place. Between all the rage and the character restriction there isn't much room for reasoned comment.  Much easier to throw out barbs, attack others, create a twitter storm and stand back and snigger at the damage done to personal reputations There's been a lot of raw emotion expressed and criticism of the state of football and the dominance of the Dubs. Much of it is justified but it often misses the target.

Here are some of my thoughts for what they're worth.

This is not an anti Dublin rant. Some of my earliest heroes were the Dublin players of the 1970s. I remember searching Carlow Town as a kid for the Dublin outfit and not finding it, cycling 24 miles round trip to Athy to purchase a Dublin jersey, shorts and socks! It might surprise Dubliners to know they had many admirers outside the Pale – I knew of one Fighting Cocks man who travelled the length and breath of Ireland following Heffos Army!

The turn of the millennium was an ideal opportunity for the GAA to reflect on the needs of the Association in a rapidly changing Ireland. Former President Peter Quinn (our best ever President?) chaired the Strategic Review Committee that produced a really thought provoking analysis of the GAA and its place in Irish society and what the future needs might be.

The founders of the GAA, way back in 1884, were literally operating in a different era and if they were starting all over again in 2000 I am sure they would have thought long and hard about the decision making structures to guide the Association in achieving its aims.

If it's true that a camel is a horse designed by a committee then the GAA is surely the sporting equivalent of an organisation catering for such diverse interests as parishes, clubs, counties, provinces, hurling and football.

Of course a camel is a brilliantly efficient animal to survive in harsh deserts and likewise the GAA has thrived despite its many disparate parts and interests.

Change is never easy and, in a national institution like the GAA, it is almost impossible to achieve an agreed outcome to so many issues that bedevil the organisation.

When the Strategic Review was under way the Committee recognised the unique circumstances of the Association in the capital city. With a quarter of the population of this island living within the county boundaries, penetration by the GAA was very low. In fact there were large tracts of the capital where there was no clubs present at all. The GAA was losing the battle for hearts and minds.

The powers that be recognised the gravity of the problem and a number of proposals were made to address the issues.

Among them was a proposal to split the county in two and a recognition that a massive financial injection was needed to achieve the objectives of growing participation numbers, improving administration and coaching structures.

The Review Committee had put forward the document for acceptance in its entirety but that did not happen and surprisingly there was support at national and provincial level to provide the necessary funding to tackle the status of the GAA in the capital without the proposed division of the county.

The proposal to split the county was considered off the wall by many in the Association. Dublin County Board, to their credit, have invested the funding wisely and are harvesting the rewards in terms of their utter dominance at inter county level. Let me acknowledge too the incredible talent in this present day Dublin; a phenomenal bunch, grounded, focused, hard working, dedicated and talented. They have been incredible Champions and look certs to win the 5 in a row. No one can begrudge them if they do. They have set new standards that the chasing pack are finding hard to match.

In this era of fake news, it is disappointing and patronising to hear Dublin's success credited solely to volunteers as though all other counties are bereft of equally devoted members and players – and that the funding has no impact! If that claim is true it has been money poorly spent. But that Trumpism is patently false. It is disappointing that the public utterances of our top officials is a uniform denial of the impact.

Allied to the other advantages of population, of location, of infra structure, of Croke Park as home venue, of corporate sponsorship, Dublin has turned into a monster that is now out of control and it is surely time for another Strategic Review to recalibrate the financial advantage bestowed on Dublin by the other 31 counties.

If our counties were member states of the EU, Dublin would be Germany; should Dublin now be a net contributor to the overall Association budget!

Croke Park and Leinster Council are taking a lot of flak for this imbalance and some of it is deserved – it isn't right for the other counties to be underwriting the investment in Dublin at this stage. But it was farsighted at the time and it was the correct decision at that time. They deserve credit for that and add in the monies invested across the Association and we get a truer picture of the good work done by the powers that be. Leinster Council has been getting a hammering of late but I believe it is very harsh; the provincial councils are much closer to the grass roots and certainly provide far greater coach education and development. However no one cried halt.

What to do now though is the question.

Redistributing Dublin's annual financial injection among the other 31 counties would reduce the impact by the time it is distributed pro rata. I think it could be quickly gobbled up by county teams preparations,

We are probably getting a better return now for our investment because it is so concentrated!

Possibly the best outcome would now be to identify the 2/3 key issues affecting the GAA in selected counties for short term investment and moving on then after a period to another 2/3 priority areas in different counties.

Withdrawing the funding could jeopardise coaching positions across Dublin clubs, although with Dublins commercial clout it is very possible that they can replace the loss of the funding with alternate commercial sources.



I don't think we can throw any more money at the problem of inter county preparations – it has turned into an arms race and all teams are spending ridiculous amounts of money to chase success which seems as elusive as ever. Only one team can win the All Ireland in any year – and for the moment it really is only one team!

Part of the problem we face today is that there does not appear to be a strategy in play.

We seem to be reactionary.

Brendan Behan once said that the first item on any republican agenda was the split. I think the same could be said for any unit of the GAA! Like it or not we have created official splits in the GAA through the GPA and the CPA. There should never have been a need for these organisations to be formed but they were borne of necessity because the voice of the ordinary member has been lost in the democratic bureaucracy of the Association.



We have competing demands for more inter county games, a better club fixture programme, unnatural expectations of our players and team officials and ever increasing expenditure on county teams.

Why are we discussing a tiered championship in isolation – which will increase the number of inter county games while on the other hand discussing a fairer club fixture programme with the CPA? These are conflicting objectives. We have added in the Super 8s and the new hurling structures and now we decide we need to do something for our clubs.

What is the end goal?

What type of organisation do we want?

Are we fulfilling our aims and objectives or have they changed?

Are we for elitism or for mass participation – or is there a balance we can achieve to ensure the rude good health of the Association into the future?

Croke Park has decided to push the introduction of a tiered championship as if this was the solution to all our problems. Last Sunday should have sent a message back that there is only one team in Tier One and the rest can compete in Tier Two. It is not the answer and will do much damage to inter county football down the divisions. Football is much more balanced across the country than hurling and there is a vibrant club scene in all counties. We do not need a tiered championship.

Many desire to provide all teams with a realistic chance of winning and the opportunity to play a final in Croke Park.

As though winning was all that mattered. It isn't – surely its the will to win that matters? It's about getting the best out of yourself and competing at as high a level as possible, its about testing yourself against the best. There is only ever one winner – it doesn't mean everyone else is a failure.

And if we think a little deeper about that, how realistic is that claim about a chance to win silverware? The likelihood is that the Tier 2 or Tier 3 Championship will be dominated by the teams competing at the top end of Division 2/3. There is a real possibility that counties like my own will never play in a Tier 3 final or maybe do so once in a lifetime but will loose out on the great days that we had over the past few years. Is it worth that trade off? I don't think so.

Almost all Carlow players would not swap those brilliant days we experienced in recent years for a B competition played in front of empty terraces- and make no mistake the Final will not remain on All Ireland Final Day, as touted, once introduced. The focus of those in favour of this tiered structure is always on a packed Croke Park where these finals will be played as a curtain raiser. But no one mentions all the other games played before sparse attendances, shunned by supporters, barely covered by an over stretched media (they can't be everywhere!) and the 14 teams that don't make the Final!

For those advocating the Tiers, we already play these teams every year in the league – we don't need a duplicate competition, in a GAA version of Groundhog Day, that will not do anything to develop players or county teams. In fact it is likely that this competition will be loss making for the counties involved and require subsidisation – more funding required, more fund-raising by county squads (for those in Dublin, that's one of the additional demands country lads face, along with those long commutes!). The magic of the Championship is the one off nature of the fixtures, the opportunity to take out a big name.

Going back tot the analogy of the camel, GAA competition structures tend to be camel like too; our Championship consists of knock out, back door and league elements! We are always tinkering with strictures to accommodate the 'what ifs' – take the relegation arrangements around Leinster and Munster SHC games. We can't have it all! As my eldest son, temporarily domiciled in the Phillipines keeps telling me, KFS!

The GAA must decide if is is for elitism or not. If it is, it will inevitably concentrate on the top 4/6 teams and forget about the remainder because counties cannot sustain the level of expenditure.

Adding in Super 8s and Tiers is only adding to the costs. We cannot generate the income to compete over a longer season.

If we cannot generate the revenue we need to look at our cost base. And reduce it.

That will mean a more condensed inter county season and less games, not more – better timing of competitions can achieve the same outcome and address many of the issues.

Why should counties (or the GPA) have to travel to the US to raise funds for an amateur sport – robbing the local organisation of potential sponsorship? It's mad stuff.

The most important competition we have is the League. It's a brilliant competition played at the wrong time of year.

The current Championship structures favour the strong by giving them a second bite of the cherry should they be beaten. A return to a knockout championship will restore competitiveness and if it is run concurrently with the NFL we could reduce the playing season, reduce the cost of preparations, improve the chances of upsets in the Championships, attract much larger crowds to Friday night league games – played in good weather, improve the calendar for club activity and perhaps save the endangered species that is the dual player.......

It may not be perfect but surely deserving of consideration and possible tweaking....Dublin
#newbridgeornowhere

sid waddell

There won't be a return to a knockout championship and nor should there be.

It would greatly reduce the potential for sponsorship, gate money and other revenue, and teams and players won't stand for it - it's a return to the "train for six months only to be out of the championship by May 19th" idea.

Turlough's suggestion that the league be played concurrently with a knockout championship is also a non-runner.

Hurling tried something like that in 1997 and after some good crowds at the early league games in March and April, ended up failing completely - there was no interest in the semi-finals and final, and Limerick promptly sacked Tom Ryan shortly after winning the final.





Hound

Re Dublin, these are the two key paragraphs

QuoteIn this era of fake news, it is disappointing and patronising to hear Dublin's success credited solely to volunteers as though all other counties are bereft of equally devoted members and players – and that the funding has no impact! If that claim is true it has been money poorly spent. But that Trumpism is patently false. It is disappointing that the public utterances of our top officials is a uniform denial of the impact.

Allied to the other advantages of population, of location, of infra structure, of Croke Park as home venue, of corporate sponsorship, Dublin has turned into a monster that is now out of control and it is surely time for another Strategic Review to recalibrate the financial advantage bestowed on Dublin by the other 31 counties.

It's completely disingenuous to say that Dubs claim the success is "solely to volunteers". The point is that the games development funding (the big feckin red herring) is almost totally irrelevant to the success of the Dublin team. The GPOs haven't coached any of the Dubs! It is all volunteers. But that's not the only reason we're successful. It's his second paragraph that is key. Allied to the great volunteers (which every county has, we just have more due to population), we have all those other advantages he lists. That's where the focus should be.

As for Tier 2 competitions, we definitely need to hear more from the counties affected.
Interesting about a summer league, but concurrently wouldn't work, it would certainly make Division 1 in the league a complete non-event.
There might be an argument for having the Tier 2 championship in the Spring and then Divisions 3 and 4 in the Summer, with plenty of Friday night games as he suggested. Although a lot more thought would be required!

blewuporstuffed

#1731
Quote from: Hound on June 26, 2019, 10:08:56 AM
Re Dublin, these are the two key paragraphs

QuoteIn this era of fake news, it is disappointing and patronising to hear Dublin’s success credited solely to volunteers as though all other counties are bereft of equally devoted members and players – and that the funding has no impact! If that claim is true it has been money poorly spent. But that Trumpism is patently false. It is disappointing that the public utterances of our top officials is a uniform denial of the impact.

Allied to the other advantages of population, of location, of infra structure, of Croke Park as home venue, of corporate sponsorship, Dublin has turned into a monster that is now out of control and it is surely time for another Strategic Review to recalibrate the financial advantage bestowed on Dublin by the other 31 counties.

It's completely disingenuous to say that Dubs claim the success is "solely to volunteers". The point is that the games development funding (the big feckin red herring) is almost totally irrelevant to the success of the Dublin team. The GPOs haven't coached any of the Dubs! It is all volunteers. But that's not the only reason we're successful. It's his second paragraph that is key. Allied to the great volunteers (which every county has, we just have more due to population), we have all those other advantages he lists. That's where the focus should be.

As for Tier 2 competitions, we definitely need to hear more from the counties affected.
Interesting about a summer league, but concurrently wouldn't work, it would certainly make Division 1 in the league a complete non-event.
There might be an argument for having the Tier 2 championship in the Spring and then Divisions 3 and 4 in the Summer, with plenty of Friday night games as he suggested. Although a lot more thought would be required!

I think this is were arguments are getting confused/ diluted
Lets say you are correct, and the funding has zero effect on the success of the current Dublin team.
What we then have is a team that is light years ahead of everyone else at present due to a generational group of players, advantages in population, location and playing the majority of games at home, yet we are still pumping a disproportionate amount of money into this team and their structures.

What is that setting us up for in the years to come when this money and the benefit of the GPOs finally kicks in?
Its a runaway train.
Every Dub support seems to take any complaint against this as a slight on the current Dublin team, and in most certainly should not be, but if we continue to do what we are doing, future successes will certainly be tainted with the inherent unfairness.
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either

Farrandeelin

Still think there will be a rugby type scenario that county players don't play with their clubs in the summer, league and championship. Obviously I hope that doesn't happen, but it's heading that way.
Inaugural Football Championship Prediction Winner.

Rossfan

I suspect it's there in fact in most Counties already.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Hound

Quote from: blewuporstuffed on June 26, 2019, 10:25:17 AM
Quote from: Hound on June 26, 2019, 10:08:56 AM
Re Dublin, these are the two key paragraphs

QuoteIn this era of fake news, it is disappointing and patronising to hear Dublin's success credited solely to volunteers as though all other counties are bereft of equally devoted members and players – and that the funding has no impact! If that claim is true it has been money poorly spent. But that Trumpism is patently false. It is disappointing that the public utterances of our top officials is a uniform denial of the impact.

Allied to the other advantages of population, of location, of infra structure, of Croke Park as home venue, of corporate sponsorship, Dublin has turned into a monster that is now out of control and it is surely time for another Strategic Review to recalibrate the financial advantage bestowed on Dublin by the other 31 counties.

It's completely disingenuous to say that Dubs claim the success is "solely to volunteers". The point is that the games development funding (the big feckin red herring) is almost totally irrelevant to the success of the Dublin team. The GPOs haven't coached any of the Dubs! It is all volunteers. But that's not the only reason we're successful. It's his second paragraph that is key. Allied to the great volunteers (which every county has, we just have more due to population), we have all those other advantages he lists. That's where the focus should be.

As for Tier 2 competitions, we definitely need to hear more from the counties affected.
Interesting about a summer league, but concurrently wouldn't work, it would certainly make Division 1 in the league a complete non-event.
There might be an argument for having the Tier 2 championship in the Spring and then Divisions 3 and 4 in the Summer, with plenty of Friday night games as he suggested. Although a lot more thought would be required!

I think this is were arguments are getting confused/ diluted
Lets say you are correct, and the funding has zero effect on the success of the current Dublin team.
What we then have is a team that is light years ahead of everyone else at present due to a generational group of players, advantages in population, location and playing the majority of games at home, yet we are still pumping a disproportionate amount of money into this team and their structures.

What is that setting us up for in the years to come when this money and the benefit of the GPOs finally kicks in?
Its a runaway train.
Every Dub support seems to take any complaint against this as a slight on the current Dublin team, and in most certainly should not be, but if we continue to do what we are doing, future successes will certainly be tainted with the inherent unfairness.
"We" are not pumping money into the senior Dublin team. That's AIG and Dublin county board funds.

Otherwise, yep, the development funds are widening the base. Two-fold benefit. They get the unfit, uninterested kids to give GAA a go. They get kids who might only be interested soccer/rugby to give GAA a go. There is the argument I take that if you have more kids playing, and you're increasing the levels of the worst of them, then the best lads will get even better, even if the GPO has no direct contact with them. And without doubt, more kids playing (even at lower levels) means more members and more subscriptions and more money in clubs to help improve facilities.

So do you stop the Dublin funding now, to allow soccer and rugby make bigger inroads into young kids in Dublin? Reduce the focus on increasing participation in Dublin?

If someone could only come up with a plan to move more jobs around the country, so we could get a more even spread of population. Reading today that Dublin wasn't even the most populous county in the country when the county system was introduced! 

magpie seanie

Good article Dinny, thanks for sharing. I wouldn't argue with much of it at all. Some excellent points made. I think moving the league to the late spring/early summer is a common sense idea and at last it seems to be gaining traction. The expenditure involved in county teams is unsustainable and unjustified in my opinion. We do need to decide what type of organisation we need - is it elitism or broad participation. We have drifted very much towards the eleite in recent times, I think that needs to be arrested. I'm hopeful that the powers that be seem to have copped on to this....lets hope so.

J70

Quote from: Hound on June 26, 2019, 01:17:32 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on June 26, 2019, 10:25:17 AM
Quote from: Hound on June 26, 2019, 10:08:56 AM
Re Dublin, these are the two key paragraphs

QuoteIn this era of fake news, it is disappointing and patronising to hear Dublin's success credited solely to volunteers as though all other counties are bereft of equally devoted members and players – and that the funding has no impact! If that claim is true it has been money poorly spent. But that Trumpism is patently false. It is disappointing that the public utterances of our top officials is a uniform denial of the impact.

Allied to the other advantages of population, of location, of infra structure, of Croke Park as home venue, of corporate sponsorship, Dublin has turned into a monster that is now out of control and it is surely time for another Strategic Review to recalibrate the financial advantage bestowed on Dublin by the other 31 counties.

It's completely disingenuous to say that Dubs claim the success is "solely to volunteers". The point is that the games development funding (the big feckin red herring) is almost totally irrelevant to the success of the Dublin team. The GPOs haven't coached any of the Dubs! It is all volunteers. But that's not the only reason we're successful. It's his second paragraph that is key. Allied to the great volunteers (which every county has, we just have more due to population), we have all those other advantages he lists. That's where the focus should be.

As for Tier 2 competitions, we definitely need to hear more from the counties affected.
Interesting about a summer league, but concurrently wouldn't work, it would certainly make Division 1 in the league a complete non-event.
There might be an argument for having the Tier 2 championship in the Spring and then Divisions 3 and 4 in the Summer, with plenty of Friday night games as he suggested. Although a lot more thought would be required!

I think this is were arguments are getting confused/ diluted
Lets say you are correct, and the funding has zero effect on the success of the current Dublin team.
What we then have is a team that is light years ahead of everyone else at present due to a generational group of players, advantages in population, location and playing the majority of games at home, yet we are still pumping a disproportionate amount of money into this team and their structures.

What is that setting us up for in the years to come when this money and the benefit of the GPOs finally kicks in?
Its a runaway train.
Every Dub support seems to take any complaint against this as a slight on the current Dublin team, and in most certainly should not be, but if we continue to do what we are doing, future successes will certainly be tainted with the inherent unfairness.
"We" are not pumping money into the senior Dublin team. That's AIG and Dublin county board funds.

Otherwise, yep, the development funds are widening the base. Two-fold benefit. They get the unfit, uninterested kids to give GAA a go. They get kids who might only be interested soccer/rugby to give GAA a go. There is the argument I take that if you have more kids playing, and you're increasing the levels of the worst of them, then the best lads will get even better, even if the GPO has no direct contact with them. And without doubt, more kids playing (even at lower levels) means more members and more subscriptions and more money in clubs to help improve facilities.

So do you stop the Dublin funding now, to allow soccer and rugby make bigger inroads into young kids in Dublin? Reduce the focus on increasing participation in Dublin?

If someone could only come up with a plan to move more jobs around the country, so we could get a more even spread of population. Reading today that Dublin wasn't even the most populous county in the country when the county system was introduced!

Given that the spread of jobs and population is not going to happen, why not try the split, even for a few years?

As blewuporstuffed says, what happens when the effects of the funding DOES kick in?

The likelihood is that Dublin will continue to win most, if not all, All Irelands for the next five years, at minimum. When does it become a problem?

At least with Kerry and Kilkenny and their periods of dominance, those extreme population and logistical advantages that Dublin have were not a factor. There was always going to be a period where they dropped back into the pack.

Hound

Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2019, 05:35:28 PM

Given that the spread of jobs and population is not going to happen, why not try the split, even for a few years?

As blewuporstuffed says, what happens when the effects of the funding DOES kick in?

The likelihood is that Dublin will continue to win most, if not all, All Irelands for the next five years, at minimum. When does it become a problem?

At least with Kerry and Kilkenny and their periods of dominance, those extreme population and logistical advantages that Dublin have were not a factor. There was always going to be a period where they dropped back into the pack.

Yep, nobody wants a routine All Irelands where 30 counties think they've no chance.

I wrote a post earlier this week, saying that I'd have no problem if the split of Dublin was looked into. So long as at the sametime, there was also looked into the alternative of the merger of counties, so we'd have maybe 12 counties or merged counties in the championship. And people could analyze the two proposals and vote accordingly.

The benefit of the latter being that every player in every county would have a realistic ambition of playing in an All Ireland final. The splitting of Dublin wouldn't do anything to the 15-20 counties that would still have absolutely no chance of All Ireland success, even in their children's lifetime. And I'd say it's closer to 25.

TheGreatest

Quote from: Hound on June 26, 2019, 09:40:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2019, 05:35:28 PM

Given that the spread of jobs and population is not going to happen, why not try the split, even for a few years?

As blewuporstuffed says, what happens when the effects of the funding DOES kick in?

The likelihood is that Dublin will continue to win most, if not all, All Irelands for the next five years, at minimum. When does it become a problem?

At least with Kerry and Kilkenny and their periods of dominance, those extreme population and logistical advantages that Dublin have were not a factor. There was always going to be a period where they dropped back into the pack.

Yep, nobody wants a routine All Irelands where 30 counties think they've no chance.

I wrote a post earlier this week, saying that I'd have no problem if the split of Dublin was looked into. So long as at the sametime, there was also looked into the alternative of the merger of counties, so we'd have maybe 12 counties or merged counties in the championship. And people could analyze the two proposals and vote accordingly.

The benefit of the latter being that every player in every county would have a realistic ambition of playing in an All Ireland final. The splitting of Dublin wouldn't do anything to the 15-20 counties that would still have absolutely no chance of All Ireland success, even in their children's lifetime. And I'd say it's closer to 25.

1. Traitor, 2. 100% correct, splitting Dublin will only benefit the big counties/Elite team, swap Dublin dominance for Kerry Dominance.

Farrandeelin

Quote from: Hound on June 26, 2019, 09:40:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2019, 05:35:28 PM

Given that the spread of jobs and population is not going to happen, why not try the split, even for a few years?

As blewuporstuffed says, what happens when the effects of the funding DOES kick in?

The likelihood is that Dublin will continue to win most, if not all, All Irelands for the next five years, at minimum. When does it become a problem?

At least with Kerry and Kilkenny and their periods of dominance, those extreme population and logistical advantages that Dublin have were not a factor. There was always going to be a period where they dropped back into the pack.

Yep, nobody wants a routine All Irelands where 30 counties think they've no chance.

I wrote a post earlier this week, saying that I'd have no problem if the split of Dublin was looked into. So long as at the sametime, there was also looked into the alternative of the merger of counties, so we'd have maybe 12 counties or merged counties in the championship. And people could analyze the two proposals and vote accordingly.

The benefit of the latter being that every player in every county would have a realistic ambition of playing in an All Ireland final. The splitting of Dublin wouldn't do anything to the 15-20 counties that would still have absolutely no chance of All Ireland success, even in their children's lifetime. And I'd say it's closer to 25.

I think we've come to the point in your first paragraph this year. Does that mean you don't want this all Ireland?
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