20 years of the PSNI

[Saffrongael]

Snapchat makes a good point. I can trust the police on day-to-day matters but when it comes to legacy issues they still stink.

He's also talking about day to day stuff, arrest rates etc

[Snapchap]

Bit of grandstanding above lads. It's perfectly legitimate to have a distrust of the PSNI without being of the same mindset as the dissident clowns trying to target them. I posted the below at the start of this thread:

Undoubtedly a different force on the ground than the RUC was. At senior, leadership level though, I don't see a big sea change. Ask any family trying to get to the truth surroundig cases involving collusion/suspected collusion, and they'll tell you about PSNI obstruction.

This was the front page story in the Irish News only last week:
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2021/10/25/news/psni-accused-of-attempting-to-thwart-publication-of-police-ombudsman-report-into-loyalist-murders-2488795/

Go back to 2019, and a Court of Appeal found the PSNI had unlawfully failed to conduct an independent probe into alleged state collusion with the Glenane Gang. The judge found the PSNI treatment of the victims' families as "unfair in the extreme".

In February 2018 it was inadvertently discovered through civil proceedings that several thousand documents, crucial to an Ombusdman investigation into 10 UDA murders in South Belfast, had not been provided by the PSNI to the Ombudsman.

In 2017, the High Court ordered the PSNI to meet with the Glenanne Gang victim's families within 5 weeks. They failed to obey the ruling.


I could post examples all day long, and the theme is the same - obstruction.

Added to that legitimate concerns about lingering sectarianism within the force....
https://www.thedetail.tv/articles/almost-twice-the-number-of-catholics-than-protestants-arrested-and-charged-by-psni
https://www.thedetail.tv/articles/nearly-twice-as-many-security-stop-and-searches-on-catholics-as-protestants
If in this day and age we have a police force that is twice as likely to arrest a Catholic as a Protestant, then surely it's hard for anyone to deny that it still has a way to go before it can be considered to be truly reformed. Surely it's acceptable to say as much? Or does that fact that braindead dissidents are carrying out their sporadic attacks mean we aren't allowed to have any feelings of distrust?

How would you change that ethos?
I'd begin by getting more Nationalists to join and that needs to come about by our community (esp GAA) supporting ppl who want to join. Acting the hard man saying I don't want to know any isn't helpful.
But we saw how Kickam's supported one of their members. He eventually had his legs blown off. It all feeds in.

An organisation has to change from the top down. The GAA isn't going to reform the PSNI and it's silly to suggest it will. Catholic recruitment to it has plummeted in recent years and that's not the fault of nationalism or of the GAA. When at senior level it is still so overtly trying to obstruct victims of collusion at every possible turn, then what message does that send out to the public and what ethos does that allow to trickle down the ranks? Surely when it's revealed that the police force of this state is still twice as likely to arrest someone who is a Catholic than a Protestant, then it's not up to Catholics/the GAA to do something about it and surely it's perfectly acceptable for someone to have feelings of mistrust of the organisation without them being vilified and being accused of somehow creating an atmosphere that encourages dissidents.

[Ethan Tremblay]

Bit of grandstanding above lads. It's perfectly legitimate to have a distrust of the PSNI without being of the same mindset as the dissident clowns trying to target them. I posted the below at the start of this thread:

Undoubtedly a different force on the ground than the RUC was. At senior, leadership level though, I don't see a big sea change. Ask any family trying to get to the truth surroundig cases involving collusion/suspected collusion, and they'll tell you about PSNI obstruction.

This was the front page story in the Irish News only last week:
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2021/10/25/news/psni-accused-of-attempting-to-thwart-publication-of-police-ombudsman-report-into-loyalist-murders-2488795/

Go back to 2019, and a Court of Appeal found the PSNI had unlawfully failed to conduct an independent probe into alleged state collusion with the Glenane Gang. The judge found the PSNI treatment of the victims' families as "unfair in the extreme".

In February 2018 it was inadvertently discovered through civil proceedings that several thousand documents, crucial to an Ombusdman investigation into 10 UDA murders in South Belfast, had not been provided by the PSNI to the Ombudsman.

In 2017, the High Court ordered the PSNI to meet with the Glenanne Gang victim's families within 5 weeks. They failed to obey the ruling.


I could post examples all day long, and the theme is the same - obstruction.

Added to that legitimate concerns about lingering sectarianism within the force....
https://www.thedetail.tv/articles/almost-twice-the-number-of-catholics-than-protestants-arrested-and-charged-by-psni
https://www.thedetail.tv/articles/nearly-twice-as-many-security-stop-and-searches-on-catholics-as-protestants
If in this day and age we have a police force that is twice as likely to arrest a Catholic as a Protestant, then surely it's hard for anyone to deny that it still has a way to go before it can be considered to be truly reformed. Surely it's acceptable to say as much? Or does that fact that braindead dissidents are carrying out their sporadic attacks mean we aren't allowed to have any feelings of distrust?

Great points to put across to be fair.  I could only state that corruption in police forces is not exclusive to the psni unfortunately. 

I think there is a mindset still in place that Catholics in the north should be predisposed to distrusting police, which should no longer be the case. 

[Armagh18]

I'm sure like anything there'll be sound cops and complete arseholes. They don't help themselves by going after people for silly shite like motoring offences, putting up posts about catching someone with tinted windows or a bald tyre acting as if they've just stopped Pablo Escobar while the streets are filled with drug dealers and thieves and burglars walk free. Lost what little respect I had for them when your man stood in the middle of Cross a couple of years back on Christmas morning with a couple of gobshites either side of him holding machine guns and posted the photo. Completely unnecessary and totally inflammatory given the history of the place.

If there ever was to come a day again that a cop needed a machine gun in Cross, he wouldn't have time to be standing smiling for a photograph ffs. 

[general_lee]

Snapchat makes a good point. I can trust the police on day-to-day matters but when it comes to legacy issues they still stink.

He's also talking about day to day stuff, arrest rates etc

Do you think the disproportionate amount of Catholics arrested is related to  some sectarian policy? Or is it more to do with demographics?

[SaffronSports]

I once applied to join the cops actually. It was around the very early days of the psni and to be honest all I was seeing was pound signs.

Got through the first few bits then had a car accident the day before the next stage and pulled out. In hindsight, I'm glad I didn't join for a great many reasons. I would have been shit at the job, my head would go looking over my shoulder all the time and I would probably have to live somewhere else than I do now.

I do know quite a few Catholics who joined around that time but to be honest, most of them moved away to other towns and I haven't saw them in years.

[Tony Baloney]

Lads from any community should be able to join the peelers without having to move out of their community or look under the car. The PSNI aren't perfect but neither are they the RUC. It could be another generation before the rotten apples from the RUC are pensioned off, but if people from our communities don't feel safe joining we'll end up returning to a 95% protestant police force.

[Wildweasel74]

But they can't, young lad up the road from me joined the police,literally hasn't ever been bck from the day he joined, fathers funeral aside. All the talk was xxxxx joined the police. Nobody encouraged to join the police, u couldn't live in the same area as u joined, half the locals wouldnt talk to u. Too big a chance on blow-ins coming in to Bobby trap a car. Till local parties openly push for catholics to join the police /(not say its OK, but activately are going round in the bck ground with the opposite agenda). Some day in the future, I think you find there come a situation where u want as many catholics in the police force as possible, especially if a referendum occurs!

[Walter Cronc]

I wouldn't like being a cop and living in South Derry. Says it all really. Long way to go.

[Gold]

But they can't, young lad up the road from me joined the police,literally hasn't ever been bck from the day he joined, fathers funeral aside. All the talk was xxxxx joined the police. Nobody encouraged to join the police, u couldn't live in the same area as u joined, half the locals wouldnt talk to u. Too big a chance on blow-ins coming in to Bobby trap a car. Till local parties openly push for catholics to join the police /(not say its OK, but activately are going round in the bck ground with the opposite agenda). Some day in the future, I think you find there come a situation where u want as many catholics in the police force as possible, especially if a referendum occurs!

Similarly I was good mates with a fella in Uni who failed all his exams at Christmas in final year. Were recruiting for PSNI at the time and he said f this and thought of the pound signs. Big f**ker who if in the South would defo be a Guard.

He left and joined  the PSNI. Had to leave his town and live somewhere like Limavady or some shite last I heard. Couldn't go back home unless random drop in and away every load of months. Big GAA fan from wee Town in Tyrone. Huge Nationalist too.

I'd rather clean piss from bins than have to leave my life and live in the shadows. Haven't seen him in years, heard he married another cop....that's another thing, I hear they regularly inter marry and only really befriend each other

Needs to change, it can't stay like that forever

f**king bizarre place where we have people living beside us, opposite us, a mile away or whatever and we're all secretive and wary etc. It's a pile of shite

[WT4E]

Went to school with a lad joined the NIPS. Haven't seen him since uni

Story goes he was in uni and decided wasn't for him and decided to go to irish army. Failed the psych test and wasn't eligible to be given a gun..... PSNI welcomed him with open arms and armed him up.

Funny enough had another friend who didn't know him got stopped for speeding and he let him off based on his address and that he knew me. Never thought I'd see the day.

From a very nationalist town.

[harryR]

From the north coast you would have many a soccer team which has cops or prison guards playing as well as well known drug dealers/drug runners.
I know of a couple of Gaelic players who have joined the police and most have had to eventually stop, however was usually to do with shift pattern and that. Most of these where moved away from home and working or where still living in the area but working miles away

[square_ball]

I see this morning on twitter Coalisland getting a bit of a kicking. I'd be pretty sure every right minded person in that town will be disgusted with what happened on Wednesday night.

[TyroneOnlooker]

I know of a couple of guys from the locality who apparently joined the police. Not close enough to it ever being confirmed by family or whatever but they just disappeared and live gods knows where now. It's sad too. I have no issue supporting the police and acknowledge they have to be supported for us to have a normal society however it does still make you wonder when you see in these historic cases where the hierarchy are deliberately frustrating the legal process. I wouldn't encourage my children or relatives to join and I suppose that's the problem. You know we need to but wouldn't want your own there. I also know a couple from around the same area who are in the guards. Not big republicans or anything. Just wouldn't have felt safe joining psni.

[Jim Bob]

I know of a cop who lives in the area where he grew up. Totally nationalist areas and everyone knows what he does. Just lives a normal life