Hamas attack Israel & subsequent genocide

[Eamonnca1]

David McWilliams podcast had an interesting take. Russia and China have no dog in the Israel/Palestine fight, but it's a great wedge issue that divides the west. Some EU countries are in the Israel camp, some are in the Palestine camp. The Irish see the Brits in the Israelis, the yanks see Al Queda in Hamas, etc.. America's backing of the Israeli cause keeps the US well stocked with enemies. Russia's happy to be friends with Iran who in turn are happy to back their proxies in Hizbollah, Hams and IJ.

[Never beat the deeler]

Quite compelling that there are relatives of holocaust survivors out protesting against Israeli genocide in solidarity with the Palestinians.

Not all (non Israeli) Jews  are pro-Israel. Miriam Margoyles has repeatedly called out Israel  numerous times for their treatment of Palestinians.  Maybe it takes non-Israeli Jews to think outside the box  instead of those in Israel who are  brainwashed  by their psychopathic overlords.

Israel's actions will only increase the animosity  towards ordinary Jews worldwide though. Even if they are pro-Palestine

Exactly.
Sadly, as a result of the Zionists that shout 'anti Semite' at every criticism of Israel, many people are conflating Jewish / Zionist

[seafoid]

David McWilliams podcast had an interesting take. Russia and China have no dog in the Israel/Palestine fight, but it's a great wedge issue that divides the west. Some EU countries are in the Israel camp, some are in the Palestine camp. The Irish see the Brits in the Israelis, the yanks see Al Queda in Hamas, etc.. America's backing of the Israeli cause keeps the US well stocked with enemies. Russia's happy to be friends with Iran who in turn are happy to back their proxies in Hizbollah, Hams and IJ.

It's more than that. russia has a naval base at Tartus in Syria and supported Assad in the Syrian civil war. Assad is shia, so is the Iraqi leadership and so is Iran. There is a Shia Arc going from the Russian naval base to the middle of Afghanistan. Supported by Russia.

[johnnycool]

David McWilliams podcast had an interesting take. Russia and China have no dog in the Israel/Palestine fight, but it's a great wedge issue that divides the west. Some EU countries are in the Israel camp, some are in the Palestine camp. The Irish see the Brits in the Israelis, the yanks see Al Queda in Hamas, etc.. America's backing of the Israeli cause keeps the US well stocked with enemies. Russia's happy to be friends with Iran who in turn are happy to back their proxies in Hizbollah, Hams and IJ.

I think its even more nuanced than that in Europe in particular, look at the UK, France ect, big Pro Palestinian demonstrations but their Governments are very much pro Israel..

As much as this is a big issue now it won't have any real impact come polling time.

A lot of the EU countries have a big guilt cloud hanging over then due to the Holocaust and are happy to turn a blind eye to the Israeli slaughter of the innocents.

[imtommygunn]

David McWilliams podcast had an interesting take. Russia and China have no dog in the Israel/Palestine fight, but it's a great wedge issue that divides the west. Some EU countries are in the Israel camp, some are in the Palestine camp. The Irish see the Brits in the Israelis, the yanks see Al Queda in Hamas, etc.. America's backing of the Israeli cause keeps the US well stocked with enemies. Russia's happy to be friends with Iran who in turn are happy to back their proxies in Hizbollah, Hams and IJ.

I think its even more nuanced than that in Europe in particular, look at the UK, France ect, big Pro Palestinian demonstrations but their Governments are very much pro Israel..

As much as this is a big issue now it won't have any real impact come polling time.

A lot of the EU countries have a big guilt cloud hanging over then due to the Holocaust and are happy to turn a blind eye to the Israeli slaughter of the innocents.

I am not sure about this in the UK - I think this will make a significant impact on Labour. It is pretty much showing that Starmer is not fit for purpose.

[johnnycool]

David McWilliams podcast had an interesting take. Russia and China have no dog in the Israel/Palestine fight, but it's a great wedge issue that divides the west. Some EU countries are in the Israel camp, some are in the Palestine camp. The Irish see the Brits in the Israelis, the yanks see Al Queda in Hamas, etc.. America's backing of the Israeli cause keeps the US well stocked with enemies. Russia's happy to be friends with Iran who in turn are happy to back their proxies in Hizbollah, Hams and IJ.

I think its even more nuanced than that in Europe in particular, look at the UK, France ect, big Pro Palestinian demonstrations but their Governments are very much pro Israel..

As much as this is a big issue now it won't have any real impact come polling time.

A lot of the EU countries have a big guilt cloud hanging over then due to the Holocaust and are happy to turn a blind eye to the Israeli slaughter of the innocents.

I am not sure about this in the UK - I think this will make a significant impact on Labour. It is pretty much showing that Starmer is not fit for purpose.

He's a pragmatist and once he went to Murdocks Summer garden party in London along with a few others in their cabinet he was in his pocket. He also lacks backbone I might add.

How they think that the Sun newspaper can hold that much sway on the English electorate (with the honourable exception of Merseyside) beggars belief.

[imtommygunn]

I am not sure about back pocket but I agree about the backbone. He doesn't know what audience to play to at all.

[NAG1]

I am not sure about back pocket but I agree about the backbone. He doesn't know what audience to play to at all.

That is his major issue at the moment, he is in the position currently that the next GE is basically his to lose. So he is trying to not say anything or take sides on any divisive issue in the lead up to that GE.

It remains to be seen if and when he gets the PM job if he still remains as wishy washy. Labour got burnt by the Corbyn years, regardless of what you make of his views he proved basically unelectable. So KS is wanting to avoid this at all costs.

[imtommygunn]

Yeah that election is not about being the most electable but the least unelectable. Any faux pas he makes will be jumped on to make him look less electable. He just appears to be drifting along trying not to get "cancelled".

[seafoid]

I am not sure about back pocket but I agree about the backbone. He doesn't know what audience to play to at all.

That is his major issue at the moment, he is in the position currently that the next GE is basically his to lose. So he is trying to not say anything or take sides on any divisive issue in the lead up to that GE.

It remains to be seen if and when he gets the PM job if he still remains as wishy washy. Labour got burnt by the Corbyn years, regardless of what you make of his views he proved basically unelectable. So KS is wanting to avoid this at all costs.

Corbyn was made unelectable by the media via the antisemitism slur. They didn't want any change to the status quo. 
The last 4 years have been hell
 for Brits between Covid , Brexit and inflation. The Tories are extremist.  Corbyn was not.

[seafoid]

Appears to me that the Netenyahu strategy is to keep her lit until multiple countries (those demanding a ceasefire) as part of ceasefire negotiations, agree to take everyone left alive in Gaza at that point as refugees.

It seems that the Yanks are giving Israel a limited amount of time to get the Hamas job done.

[weareros]

While it's no laughing matter, I did find this passage somewhat amusing from Fintan O'Toole today:

At the United Nations general assembly, countries are seated in alphabetical order, which means that Ireland usually finds itself stuck between Iran and Iraq on the one side and Israel on the other. It is not the worst place to be right now: holding open a space between competing fanaticisms.

In 1957, when Israel invaded the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula during the Suez crisis, our minister for external affairs Liam Cosgrave made a speech at the UN calling on "the Jews and the Arabs to settle their differences according to Christian principles". Conor Cruise O'Brien, who was then a senior Irish diplomat, told me years later that he had suggested to Cosgrave that this was not likely to go down very well with either the Jews or the Arabs. "No", Cosgrave replied, "but it will go down very well in Dún Laoghaire Rathdown."

[LeoMc]

David McWilliams podcast had an interesting take. Russia and China have no dog in the Israel/Palestine fight, but it's a great wedge issue that divides the west. Some EU countries are in the Israel camp, some are in the Palestine camp. The Irish see the Brits in the Israelis, the yanks see Al Queda in Hamas, etc.. America's backing of the Israeli cause keeps the US well stocked with enemies. Russia's happy to be friends with Iran who in turn are happy to back their proxies in Hizbollah, Hams and IJ.

It's more than that. russia has a naval base at Tartus in Syria and supported Assad in the Syrian civil war. Assad is shia, so is the Iraqi leadership and so is Iran. There is a Shia Arc going from the Russian naval base to the middle of Afghanistan. Supported by Russia.

An interesting observation.
 The Shias were always seen as the moderates. Much of the extremist intra faith terrorism is typically Sunni on Shia but the Sunnis get a by ball as Saudi has so much oil.
It is also interesting that the Sunni Muslims of Gaza get more support from the Shia Hezbollah than Sunni Egypt or Saudi Arabia.

[seafoid]

Gaza is dirt poor but valuable to the Shia because it borders southern Israel while Hezbollah covers Northern Israel.

[Franko]

Is it just me or is this Israeli bombing  these supposed  tunnels smell  exactly like  the US bombing the crap out of  mountains in Afghanistan,  because that's where Bin Laden was hiding, in a  Dr Evil-style hollowed out lair?

Ach sure, if we happen to kill 5,000 Palestinians  at  the same time , sure as long as  we got the tunnel

I honestly think it's  at the stage now that Israel always wanted. Total obliteration.  There will be nothing left.  If Palestinians can leave,  they should.  Palestinians will be scattered to the four winds , and Israel will take over  what's left. There will be nothing for Palestinians  to come back to.  As sad as it is , leave the warmongering b******s to it , and rest of  the world  shun anything to do with Israel.

100% this is what Netanyahu always wanted, his name up in lights as a strong man with a death count which means his name will be etched in history, good bad or indifferent he doesn't give a f**k. This has also been cynically timed in proximity to the American election cycle to render POTUS impotent, its the culmination of a lifetimes work for the sc**bag. Its also the culmination of 50+ years of American tolerance and enabling of Zionism, but who'd be surprised at that, sure didn't the US recruit high ranking Nazis after WWII.

End of the day this is a shit show and not beyond the realms of possibility that one or more press the big red nuclear button, certainly expect Netanyahu and Putin would have an erection for it, and others too. Nuclear deterrent my ass, you build a stockpile and there's men who dream of using it.

Shame on all the cowards over the years who got it to this point, the Zionists have it fairly stitched up at this point, the level of political cover for genocide is lunacy, they played the long game and won by the looks of it

Getting lost among the atrocities - but we are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack, Israel are doing exactly what Hamas expected & hoped they would do after the attack. The Arab world coming to their aid is the only part of their plan not happening atm.

Another person who swallows the Zionist bullshit that this all started a month ago

The Oct 7th attack is only the latest in a VERY long list of reasons why 'we are where we currently are'

Yes, immediate cause and root causes. I'm sure everyone is aware of the distinction.  The Hamas attack on 7th October is the immediate cause.

Like I say, it's only the immediate cause if your clock starts on exactly the 7th Oct.