Quote from: criostlinn on December 26, 2016, 02:20:11 PMQuote from: Il Bomber Destro on December 26, 2016, 12:23:12 PMQuote from: Lar Naparka on December 26, 2016, 11:52:15 AMQuote from: Halfquarter on December 26, 2016, 11:26:00 AMBack when h&c were appointed, many Mayo posters said there was trouble ahead. Moy said they were dead men walking and this proved to be true. A lot of the "experts" here have been been spouting BS since h&c went public who haven't a clue about what has been going on. It's a wonder the players didn't rear up a lot sooner. I'd give Tomas maybe 5 out of 10 and he wasn't the worst by a long shot.Quote from: maigheo on December 26, 2016, 04:16:26 AMFrom my reading of the article he puts the blame on H&C for sh1tstirring, laying lie to the claim that they were doing it for the "good of Mayo football " .
Yeah not good from Tomas.Must have had a fair scatter of pints drank when he wrote that article.
Ok,the CB got it badly wrong initially but that to me is a seperate debate .
He says and I quote -
"But in the long run it's not good for Mayo. Holmes and Connelly had held the high ground since they left; maybe they were hounded to speak on it but I think everyone comes out of this saga tarnished; the players, the management . . . it doesn't do anyone any favours."
Absolute bollocks.
You are burying your head in the sand.
Managers should be judged on the results and performances of their side, their Championship performances were on a par at least with what went before and came afterwards.
The real reason for the coup seems to be that certain players egos were not massaged and they exercised perceived personal grievances with the management team by threatening a strike to have them removed. That is unacceptable but a lot here are completely burying their heads in the sand.
It is not the remit of players to have input in team selections.
It is not the remit of players to have a say in removing management teams.
It is not the remit of players to have a say in the appointment of management teams.
These are the issues the Mayo posters here will not address, all that is being proffered as justification is cryptic and vague hints that there was more behind it that what is in the public domain. The fact is that unless you were in the camp and knew what happened, you are taking leaps of faith and the leaps of faith seem to be very subjective to those of the players from the Mayo posters here. There doesn't seem to be anything concrete behind what they are putting forward, just the side of the story they'd like to believe.
I'm a pragmatist and that's why I have to side with Holmes and Connelly on this matter, nothing justifies the actions of the Mayo players on this, it is not their business to decide management teams and the results and the performances are the only substantive measure for managers, in their only season Holmes and Connelly did as well as any management team - past or present. A personality clash between certain players and management is the only obvious reason for this.
You see bombers problem here is he just doesn't get. Not his fault really as there are a lot of things he just doesn't get as is shown by is continuous ramblings all over this board. On this thread instead of just going away and accepting he doesn't get it he has a couple of other fools egging him on and this has resulted in the absolute nonsense that is came out in this post.
As Lar has already pointed out the trouble that came about as a result of the appointment process was well flag. Not only was it discussed all over Mayo it was also discussed at Co Board level and resulted in resignations from the board. But the power brokers pushed on, patting themselves on the back for the great appointment.
Everyone knew that the real reason for the appointment was to cut back on spending and this meant putting the players back in their boxes. James Horan brought this team to within a kick of a ball of winning an All Ireland final but this meant increased spending on team preparation. It also meant Horan had more of a say on how things were run and when things were going well no one could say a word. But Horan was hated. As far as some were concerned he had to much power and our Co Board men didn't like this one bit.
When Horan left they made sure they wouldn't make the same mistake again. In a dictatorship only the dictators can have control. What better way to ensure total control but to appoint a relation of the leader. This is something you see in the middle east time and time again
So the Dynamic Duo took up and straight away attempted to sort out the plebs. Cuts made in the medical team, cuts made in training expenses. This all at a time when the other serious All Ireland contenders were taking things to another level. And the players should keeps their mouths shut. Be good little boys and say nothing. You see they have no all Ireland medals so what do they know.
This group of players never had a problem with self criticism. Under James Horan they always tried to identify problems and rectify them. Just look at the player Aiden O'Shea was in 2010 and see how he improved every year under Horan. He addressed issues with is fitness and overall play. Look at the team that was physically beat up a stick by Kerry in 2011 and how they transformed themselves over the next couple of years. Ok. They didn't reach the holy grail but they came damn close and I have never heard one of these players making an excuse or blaming a referee.
The least they could have expected when Horan left was someone that may be able to offer something a little bit different. Bomber keeps on pointing that H&C achieved the same results in 2015 as Horan did up to this but the simple point he is missing is the players didn't want the same results. Maybe someone that could help them identify areas that they could improve and put time and resources into improving this. Not some gobshite who himself stood of a man as he scored 11 points in an All Ireland telling them that they were bullied by Kerry and all they are good for is making excuses. Not some Co Board lackies whose number 1 priorty was to cut expenses. As for reaching the All Ireland semi final and losing to Dublin in a replay. This team without a manager could have achieved this. Despite not having actually one an All Ireland they reached the semi every year in the previous 4 years and certainly did not need H&C to guide them to this. One saying you often hear mentioned is you learn more from losing then winning. Mayo lost the 2014 replay after a 6 day turnaround. I wonder would the players have anything to offer management on ways they could rectify any problems they identified from the previous year when they faced the same thing in 2015. I also wonder how much heed management paid of these opinions. But then sure the players have no All Irelands so what would they know.
I've said this before, some of these players had the misfortune of playing under a management which came about as a result of a County Board stroke. Micky Moran got above hs station and he was cut at the knees. We seen what happened the next 4 years as the players kept their mouths shuts. Thank good they were a lot braver this time. The only thing I wonder after reading this H&C list of excuses why they didnt make it at management is why the players didn't do what Offaly hurlers did and fcuk these chancers out long before they did. You never know with a proper set up they may have pulled of something special in 2015
Super post Croistlinn. I'd agree with all of it.