Armagh v Fermanagh - Sunday 25th June at 6:30pm

[brokencrossbar1]

Surely if you play with a few more forwards then the 2 men playing sweeper will have to man mark, I think some managers haven't got the balls to push another forward or two up onto the free men.

Now i'not naive enough to think if u done this against the likes of Dublin with their attacking half backs you'd be cleaned out but surely against lesser opposition then take a chance and push up and don't let the opposition have free men, takes balls i know but if you're going to get beat anyway you might as well do it having a go

Fully agree...engage the sweepers...as well to be hung for a sheep as a lamb!!!  You need to have confidence on your defenders though to do their jobs. Unfortunately with the prevalence of defending through systems the individual defensive qualities are not practiced as much....

Dunno about that, in such a situation your forwards end up playing in a congested area while theirs end up playing in acres of space

You engage them and draw them away from the front of the goals. If they don't go with you the call goes through the hands of the player the sweeper should be marking

[illdecide]

Correct...there is no way a sweeper is going to let a free man go unmarked and if he stays to sweep then he's a fool, you push up on the free men and it'll cause chaos. A good manager with a set should be able to reverse that situation if he feels he has the forwards to execute and the defence to hold their own when the opposition is attacking.

[OgraAnDun]

You would have to assume that various managers have tried that in challenge games on a number of occasions over the past few years and it hasn't worked out well or it would have been implemented in a competitive match by now. If the ball is turned over (through a bad pass, through tackling, whatever) you're f*cked as you've left three defenders marking three forwards with half a pitch to wander about in.

[brokencrossbar1]

You would have to assume that various managers have tried that in challenge games on a number of occasions over the past few years and it hasn't worked out well or it would have been implemented in a competitive match by now. If the ball is turned over (through a bad pass, through tackling, whatever) you're f*cked as you've left three defenders marking three forwards with half a pitch to wander about in.

That's why i said about the defenders being able to do their own jobs. System remove the responsibility on individuals to do their own jobs. I have seen teams losing games by 5-6 points and still relying on sweepers(Armagh v Donegal a number of years ago springs to mind). I'd more time was spent on coaching players to do their individual jobs rather that 'systems' this fad would pass. Too much money on the table for managers to get instant results and as a consequence they all have developed the 'defensive systems ' to avoid defeat...have some f**king balls and go and win the bloody game rather than not lose it!!

[OgraAnDun]

You would have to assume that various managers have tried that in challenge games on a number of occasions over the past few years and it hasn't worked out well or it would have been implemented in a competitive match by now. If the ball is turned over (through a bad pass, through tackling, whatever) you're f*cked as you've left three defenders marking three forwards with half a pitch to wander about in.

That's why i said about the defenders being able to do their own jobs. System remove the responsibility on individuals to do their own jobs. I have seen teams losing games by 5-6 points and still relying on sweepers(Armagh v Donegal a number of years ago springs to mind). I'd more time was spent on coaching players to do their individual jobs rather that 'systems' this fad would pass. Too much money on the table for managers to get instant results and as a consequence they all have developed the 'defensive systems ' to avoid defeat...have some f**king balls and go and win the bloody game rather than not lose it!!

You have a point but I think that even with a forward and a defender matched 50/50 in terms of ability and physical prowess, the attacker will come out on top more often than not if they're given that much space to work in. It might only be 6 times out of 10 or 55 times out of 100 but those two scores will be enough to win the game.


EDIT: Also, as regards instant success - people criticse the managers for wanting instant success, and then they criticise them for talking about a three/five year process. They need success within a year or two or they're out the door, and even if you're doing it on the free, it's a failure that you don't want.

[illdecide]

http://gaeliclife.com/2017/06/exclusive-armagh-edge-closer-centre-excellence/

[Il Bomber Destro]

Surely if you play with a few more forwards then the 2 men playing sweeper will have to man mark, I think some managers haven't got the balls to push another forward or two up onto the free men.

Now i'not naive enough to think if u done this against the likes of Dublin with their attacking half backs you'd be cleaned out but surely against lesser opposition then take a chance and push up and don't let the opposition have free men, takes balls i know but if you're going to get beat anyway you might as well do it having a go

Fully agree...engage the sweepers...as well to be hung for a sheep as a lamb!!!  You need to have confidence on your defenders though to do their jobs. Unfortunately with the prevalence of defending through systems the individual defensive qualities are not practiced as much....

Dunno about that, in such a situation your forwards end up playing in a congested area while theirs end up playing in acres of space

Precisely and combine that with the modern day athleticism of players then you are asking for bother. Any team who doesn't play with adequate numbers in defence will be destroyed by a well drilled counter attacking side.

[LCohen]

You would have to assume that various managers have tried that in challenge games on a number of occasions over the past few years and it hasn't worked out well or it would have been implemented in a competitive match by now. If the ball is turned over (through a bad pass, through tackling, whatever) you're f*cked as you've left three defenders marking three forwards with half a pitch to wander about in.

That's why i said about the defenders being able to do their own jobs. System remove the responsibility on individuals to do their own jobs. I have seen teams losing games by 5-6 points and still relying on sweepers(Armagh v Donegal a number of years ago springs to mind). I'd more time was spent on coaching players to do their individual jobs rather that 'systems' this fad would pass. Too much money on the table for managers to get instant results and as a consequence they all have developed the 'defensive systems ' to avoid defeat...have some f**king balls and go and win the bloody game rather than not lose it!!

You have a point but I think that even with a forward and a defender matched 50/50 in terms of ability and physical prowess, the attacker will come out on top more often than not if they're given that much space to work in. It might only be 6 times out of 10 or 55 times out of 100 but those two scores will be enough to win the game.


EDIT: Also, as regards instant success - people criticse the managers for wanting instant success, and then they criticise them for talking about a three/five year process. They need success within a year or two or they're out the door, and even if you're doing it on the free, it's a failure that you don't want.

Of course people want instant success. It's natural.

Not everyone will get what they want.

3 and 5 year plans are not in themselves bad ideas. The aimed for success does not need to be delivered in 1 or 2 years but you have to have interim targets and be chalking them off. Think about the 25 year old establishing themselves at IC level. A 5 year plan that is allowed to run its course but delivers nothing. As that player moves on to deal with family and real life we just shrug our shoulders and say ok that 5 year plan didn't work - anybody got a new one?

[LCohen]

http://gaeliclife.com/2017/06/exclusive-armagh-edge-closer-centre-excellence/

Any word on where this thing is going to be?

Serious work will need to be done on establishing the full cost and the funding plan. Volunteers need to know the full details and the impact on the clubs and their own fundraising capabilities before getting involved

[LCohen]

Surely if you play with a few more forwards then the 2 men playing sweeper will have to man mark, I think some managers haven't got the balls to push another forward or two up onto the free men.

Now i'not naive enough to think if u done this against the likes of Dublin with their attacking half backs you'd be cleaned out but surely against lesser opposition then take a chance and push up and don't let the opposition have free men, takes balls i know but if you're going to get beat anyway you might as well do it having a go

Fully agree...engage the sweepers...as well to be hung for a sheep as a lamb!!!  You need to have confidence on your defenders though to do their jobs. Unfortunately with the prevalence of defending through systems the individual defensive qualities are not practiced as much....

Dunno about that, in such a situation your forwards end up playing in a congested area while theirs end up playing in acres of space

Precisely and combine that with the modern day athleticism of players then you are asking for bother. Any team who doesn't play with adequate numbers in defence will be destroyed by a well drilled counter attacking side.

I remember Crossmaglen going with 7 forwards to rob Errigal Ciaran of using Peter Harte as a play making sweeper. They used the full width of the pitch.  Worked a treat

[macdanger2]

I could see it working on a one off basis against a team whose manager fails to react but on an ongoing basis I think it would come a cropper

[illdecide]

You are all confident that it wouldn't work and if it did it would only work once...Cross have proved it can work, if you have the players to carry it out it almost certainly can work. As said previously majority of managers haven't the balls to carry it out for the fear of getting beat and the keyboard warriors tearing them apart for trying it.

The defence need to be capable of taking care of their own men, remember the attackers play a massive role in this as they too play technically as defenders stopping their men breaking out with the ball. Diarmaid Marsden was probably the best tackler you would find and was a top forward, and if you've seven men up in forward line there will almost definitely be no short kick outs.

[mackers]

Was this not the type of tactic that got Paul Grimley lambasted by all and sundry after Martin Dunne scored umpteen points against us in Breffni Park?  From memory it was a Crossmaglen player (Paul McKeown)that was hung out to dry that day.

[FermGael]

You are all confident that it wouldn't work and if it did it would only work once...Cross have proved it can work, if you have the players to carry it out it almost certainly can work. As said previously majority of managers haven't the balls to carry it out for the fear of getting beat and the keyboard warriors tearing them apart for trying it.

The defence need to be capable of taking care of their own men, remember the attackers play a massive role in this as they too play technically as defenders stopping their men breaking out with the ball. Diarmaid Marsden was probably the best tackler you would find and was a top forward, and if you've seven men up in forward line there will almost definitely be no short kick outs.

As a Fermanagh man I think Armagh should play this way.

Cross have always played a sweeper, if not two.
They were the first team to do this IMO.

[Avondhu star]

Any Fermanagh men here want to tell us how they're going to bate Armagh?

Where did you get the idea that anyone cares about it?