Author Topic: UK General Election 2017  (Read 48548 times)

macdanger2

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2017, 02:35:19 PM »
Hard to know. We live in strange times - Trump, Brexit referendum.  Corbyn's underdog appeal could work for him in the same way it worked for Major against Kinnock in 1992.  Corbyn might also appeal to young voters wishing to protest. It's a long shot I know but here's hoping

It will be interesting to see if there's a surge in young voters and if so, where will they go

dec

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2017, 02:38:16 PM »
Theresa May refusing to take part in leaders debates is a strange position to take so early in the campaign. It gives her political opponents a stick to beat her with and looks like a very cowardly position to take for an as yet unelected prime minister.

In court when the prosecution has a weak case often the defendant does not testify as there is nothing to defend.  A TV debate is unlikely to win the Tories many more votes and the possibility is there that she would perform badly (thinking on her feet is not one of May's strengths) or make some gaffe that would cost them votes.  From their point of view, best leave well alone.

There is plenty to defend alright (just the small matter of her Brexit position).

She is simply afraid to do it because she knows that she is still unable to outline the mechanics of a post Brexit Britain, the cost of leaving the EU, the difficulty in reaching trade agreements, the threat to the union. In essence they are still making it up as they go along. Unfortunately due to Corbyn's position on Brexit, the labour party will not benefit in any shape or form by a leaders debate. The Lib Dem's would be the biggest benificiary from focussing on Brexit and pinning her down to the issues. The election has been called on the basis of a Brexit negotiating stance but at the same time she wants to avoid talking about it.

The Tories have a large lead in the opinion polls, they are unlikely to gain any more voters because of a Theresa May debate performance. She has not much to gain and plenty to lose in a debate so tactically it is a smart move.

seafoid

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2017, 02:40:49 PM »
Both Trump and the Leave campaign turned popular anger towards economic inequality into political success. The Tories are doubling down on poll support to win a GE. Neither Make America great again nor Brexit will address the structural issues that caused people to vote for them. The people in both cases will be betrayed. I hope the Tories win this election. They deserve the consequences. 
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

yellowcard

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2017, 02:46:12 PM »
Theresa May refusing to take part in leaders debates is a strange position to take so early in the campaign. It gives her political opponents a stick to beat her with and looks like a very cowardly position to take for an as yet unelected prime minister.

In court when the prosecution has a weak case often the defendant does not testify as there is nothing to defend.  A TV debate is unlikely to win the Tories many more votes and the possibility is there that she would perform badly (thinking on her feet is not one of May's strengths) or make some gaffe that would cost them votes.  From their point of view, best leave well alone.

There is plenty to defend alright (just the small matter of her Brexit position).

She is simply afraid to do it because she knows that she is still unable to outline the mechanics of a post Brexit Britain, the cost of leaving the EU, the difficulty in reaching trade agreements, the threat to the union. In essence they are still making it up as they go along. Unfortunately due to Corbyn's position on Brexit, the labour party will not benefit in any shape or form by a leaders debate. The Lib Dem's would be the biggest benificiary from focussing on Brexit and pinning her down to the issues. The election has been called on the basis of a Brexit negotiating stance but at the same time she wants to avoid talking about it.

The Tories have a large lead in the opinion polls, they are unlikely to gain any more voters because of a Theresa May debate performance. She has not much to gain and plenty to lose in a debate so tactically it is a smart move.

Wouldn't agree with that. The aesthetics of an empty chair in any debate (one of which has only recently been announced by ITV) would not look good for any prospective prime minister. She might want to avoid debating the issues but trying to become invisible just exacerbates the problem in my view. 

dec

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2017, 02:51:06 PM »
The aesthetics of an empty chair in any debate (one of which has only recently been announced by ITV) would not look good for any prospective prime minister. She might want to avoid debating the issues but trying to become invisible just exacerbates the problem in my view. 

That is assuming that the broadcasters would actually stick an empty chair on the stage.

screenexile

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2017, 02:52:12 PM »
The aesthetics of an empty chair in any debate (one of which has only recently been announced by ITV) would not look good for any prospective prime minister. She might want to avoid debating the issues but trying to become invisible just exacerbates the problem in my view. 

That is assuming that the broadcasters would actually stick an empty chair on the stage.

Channel 4 would do it!!! I doubt any of the other would.

yellowcard

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2017, 02:56:19 PM »
The aesthetics of an empty chair in any debate (one of which has only recently been announced by ITV) would not look good for any prospective prime minister. She might want to avoid debating the issues but trying to become invisible just exacerbates the problem in my view. 

That is assuming that the broadcasters would actually stick an empty chair on the stage.

Even if they don't, her absence in any debate could be counter productive. I think she could yet be forced into another U-turn on this issue as it simply gives her political opponents a stick with which to beat her.

gallsman

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2017, 03:06:58 PM »
Too many West Wing watchers talking about empty chair debates!

May would absolutely steamroll through Corbyn in a debate anyway. Labour should be delighted to get away from the prospect.
"Never mind your why. Why ain't in your repetoire no more n***a"

Carmen Stateside

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2017, 03:23:36 PM »
ITV the first to confirm televised debate.  Puts May in a difficult position now.

screenexile

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2017, 03:29:10 PM »
Too many West Wing watchers talking about empty chair debates!

May would absolutely steamroll through Corbyn in a debate anyway. Labour should be delighted to get away from the prospect.

Why wouldn't she then?!

gallsman

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2017, 03:35:04 PM »
Too many West Wing watchers talking about empty chair debates!

May would absolutely steamroll through Corbyn in a debate anyway. Labour should be delighted to get away from the prospect.

Why wouldn't she then?!

Because she might have a harder time of it from someone competent like Sturgeon.
"Never mind your why. Why ain't in your repetoire no more n***a"

bennydorano

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2017, 05:48:43 PM »
ITV the first to confirm televised debate.  Puts May in a difficult position now.

Didn't Blair turn them down in 2005??
Are they not a more recent phenomenon, first one I recall was the GE that ended up with the Coalition government. Cameron wanted to increase his profile, Gordon Brown was resistant but did it as the Tory media got going at him.

Owen Brannigan

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2017, 07:38:32 PM »
Too many West Wing watchers talking about empty chair debates!

May would absolutely steamroll through Corbyn in a debate anyway. Labour should be delighted to get away from the prospect.

Why wouldn't she then?!

Such debates always favour the minor players and not incumbents and allow the others to gang up on the incumbent to show their own views.

May has nothing to gain from a tv debate and plenty to lose.  She is not a natural performer and not as vain as Blair and Cameron who were style without substance and natural performers.  She knows she would leave some hostages to fortune.  AT PMQs she shows that she has some grasp of the facts but just repeats prepared lines.

On top of all of that she doesn't need to do the tv debate while the others do need it for exposure.

In addition she does not want to give Corbyn a sympathy vote as she treats him in a derisory fashion.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 07:40:58 PM by Owen Brannigan »

Owen Brannigan

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2017, 07:40:06 PM »
ITV the first to confirm televised debate.  Puts May in a difficult position now.

Didn't Blair turn them down in 2005??
Are they not a more recent phenomenon, first one I recall was the GE that ended up with the Coalition government. Cameron wanted to increase his profile, Gordon Brown was resistant but did it as the Tory media got going at him.

An American phenomena going back to the Nixon debate.  Seen as essential for US audiences.  Never change any minds.

seafoid

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Re: UK General Election 2017
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2017, 08:18:14 PM »
Ken Clarke called Brexit Alice in Wonderland and that is what the Tories look like. More than half the MPs  voted Remain yet they all rowed behind May who is terrified of the Daily Mail. And she talks about leadership.
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"