Author Topic: Catholics make up 78% of free state population.👍👍👍  (Read 7892 times)

Rossfan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11228
  • Ballaghaderreen CO ROSCOMMON
    • View Profile
    • Roscommon County Board official website
Re: Catholics make up 78% of free state population.
« Reply #150 on: April 19, 2017, 06:32:53 PM »
Jesus rose from the dead ;)
Yeah. Why didn't he start a second career?
He's working diligently for all the human race with the exception of herrins and rhubarbs as He knows they belong  to the other crowd.
Why is it taking so long?
The Lord doesn't  operate in human time.
According to the bible he's been in action for only 6000 years
What did he do for the few billion years before that?
Lazy git
You fundamentalist Prods taking the Old Testament literally ::)
2016 - Hurling League Champions, Football League Semi finalists

manfromdelmonte

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1607
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics make up 78% of free state population.
« Reply #151 on: April 20, 2017, 11:09:14 AM »
Jesus rose from the dead ;)
Yeah. Why didn't he start a second career?
He's working diligently for all the human race with the exception of herrins and rhubarbs as He knows they belong  to the other crowd.
Why is it taking so long?
The Lord doesn't  operate in human time.
According to the bible he's been in action for only 6000 years
What did he do for the few billion years before that?
Lazy git
You fundamentalist Prods taking the Old Testament literally ::)
Agreed
The whole bible is a work of fiction

Rossfan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11228
  • Ballaghaderreen CO ROSCOMMON
    • View Profile
    • Roscommon County Board official website
Re: Catholics make up 78% of free state population.👍👍👍
« Reply #152 on: April 20, 2017, 11:17:40 AM »
Every bit of it?????
Pontius Pilate didn't exist??
2016 - Hurling League Champions, Football League Semi finalists

The Iceman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3397
  • Here comes the Pain
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics make up 78% of free state population.👍👍👍
« Reply #153 on: April 20, 2017, 01:39:06 PM »
here's some commentary on the bible as an ancient text - forgetting about content:
Quote
the manuscript evidence for the New Testament is stunning. The most recent count (1980) shows 5,366 separate Greek manuscripts represented by early fragments, uncial codices (manuscripts in capital Greek letters bound together in book form), and minuscules (small Greek letters in cursive style)![7]

Among the nearly 3,000 minuscule fragments are 34 complete New Testaments dating from the 9th to the 15th Centuries.[8]

Uncial manuscripts provide virtually complete codices (multiple books of the New Testament bound together into one volume) back to the 4th Century, though some are a bit younger. Codex Sinaiticus, purchased by the British government from the Soviet government at Christmas, 1933, for 100,000,[9] is dated c. 340.[10] The nearly complete Codex Vaticanus is the oldest uncial, dated c. 325-350.[11] Codex Alexandrinus contains the whole Old Testament and a nearly complete New Testament and dates from the late 4th Century to the early 5th Century.

The most fascinating evidence comes from the fragments (as opposed to the codices). The Chester Beatty Papyri contains most of the New Testament and is dated mid-3rd Century.[12] The Bodmer Papyri II collection, whose discovery was announced in 1956, includes the first fourteen chapters of the Gospel of John and much of the last seven chapters. It dates from A.D. 200 or earlier.[13]

The most amazing find of all, however, is a small portion of John 18:31-33, discovered in Egypt known as the John Rylands Papyri. Barely three inches square, it represents the earliest known copy of any part of the New Testament. The papyri is dated on paleographical grounds at around A.D. 117-138 (though it may even be earlier),[14] showing that the Gospel of John was circulated as far away as Egypt within 30 years of its composition.

Keep in mind that most of the papyri are fragmentary. Only about 50 manuscripts contain the entire New Testament, though most of the other manuscripts contain the four Gospels. Even so, the manuscript textual evidence is exceedingly rich, especially when compared to other works of antiquity.

The argument of chinese whispers and inaccurate text is no longer contested by non-Christian scholars, and for good reason. Simply put, if we reject the authenticity of the New Testament on textual grounds we'd have to reject every ancient work of antiquity and declare null and void every piece of historical information from written sources prior to the beginning of the second millennium A.D.

Has the New Testament been altered? Critical, academic analysis says it has not.


I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight

Milltown Row2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14632
  • It was the Ref that did it!!
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics make up 78% of free state population.👍👍👍
« Reply #154 on: April 20, 2017, 01:58:10 PM »
Every bit of it?????
Pontius Pilate didn't exist??

the talking burning bush is a bit strange though
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

manfromdelmonte

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1607
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics make up 78% of free state population.👍👍👍
« Reply #155 on: April 20, 2017, 02:26:40 PM »
Every bit of it?????
Pontius Pilate didn't exist??
Historical fiction

Ever read any story books on ancient Rome or the mongols? Or Napoleonic wars...
Some it is founded on fact - like the era the story is set

Rossfan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11228
  • Ballaghaderreen CO ROSCOMMON
    • View Profile
    • Roscommon County Board official website
Re: Catholics make up 78% of free state population.👍👍👍
« Reply #156 on: April 20, 2017, 02:47:30 PM »
Every bit of it?????
Pontius Pilate didn't exist??

the talking burning bush is a bit strange though
You ever hear the song "Are yeh diggin' them Dillon"?
2016 - Hurling League Champions, Football League Semi finalists

J70

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10157
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics make up 78% of free state population.👍👍👍
« Reply #157 on: April 20, 2017, 05:45:15 PM »
Every bit of it?????
Pontius Pilate didn't exist??
Historical fiction

Ever read any story books on ancient Rome or the mongols? Or Napoleonic wars...
Some it is founded on fact - like the era the story is set

And there I was thinking The Life of Brian was a true story.

I mean, its set in the Jerusalem of Jesus, Pontius Pilate and Biggus Dickus!

Eamonnca1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4451
  • Catching the world in my headlights of justice
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics make up 78% of free state population.👍👍👍
« Reply #158 on: April 20, 2017, 09:42:00 PM »
here's some commentary on the bible as an ancient text - forgetting about content:
Quote
the manuscript evidence for the New Testament is stunning. The most recent count (1980) shows 5,366 separate Greek manuscripts represented by early fragments, uncial codices (manuscripts in capital Greek letters bound together in book form), and minuscules (small Greek letters in cursive style)![7]

Among the nearly 3,000 minuscule fragments are 34 complete New Testaments dating from the 9th to the 15th Centuries.[8]

Uncial manuscripts provide virtually complete codices (multiple books of the New Testament bound together into one volume) back to the 4th Century, though some are a bit younger. Codex Sinaiticus, purchased by the British government from the Soviet government at Christmas, 1933, for 100,000,[9] is dated c. 340.[10] The nearly complete Codex Vaticanus is the oldest uncial, dated c. 325-350.[11] Codex Alexandrinus contains the whole Old Testament and a nearly complete New Testament and dates from the late 4th Century to the early 5th Century.

The most fascinating evidence comes from the fragments (as opposed to the codices). The Chester Beatty Papyri contains most of the New Testament and is dated mid-3rd Century.[12] The Bodmer Papyri II collection, whose discovery was announced in 1956, includes the first fourteen chapters of the Gospel of John and much of the last seven chapters. It dates from A.D. 200 or earlier.[13]

The most amazing find of all, however, is a small portion of John 18:31-33, discovered in Egypt known as the John Rylands Papyri. Barely three inches square, it represents the earliest known copy of any part of the New Testament. The papyri is dated on paleographical grounds at around A.D. 117-138 (though it may even be earlier),[14] showing that the Gospel of John was circulated as far away as Egypt within 30 years of its composition.

Keep in mind that most of the papyri are fragmentary. Only about 50 manuscripts contain the entire New Testament, though most of the other manuscripts contain the four Gospels. Even so, the manuscript textual evidence is exceedingly rich, especially when compared to other works of antiquity.

The argument of chinese whispers and inaccurate text is no longer contested by non-Christian scholars, and for good reason. Simply put, if we reject the authenticity of the New Testament on textual grounds we'd have to reject every ancient work of antiquity and declare null and void every piece of historical information from written sources prior to the beginning of the second millennium A.D.

Has the New Testament been altered? Critical, academic analysis says it has not.

What's your take on the Dead Sea Scrolls? If I recall correctly they tell of Jesus surviving the crucifixion, retiring from public life, joining some monk order called the Essenes (sp?) and starting a family with Mary Magdalene in some quiet corner somewhere.

Rossfan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11228
  • Ballaghaderreen CO ROSCOMMON
    • View Profile
    • Roscommon County Board official website
Re: Catholics make up 78% of free state population.👍👍👍
« Reply #159 on: April 21, 2017, 12:06:10 AM »
1st example of fake news.
Trump has been around longer than we thought....
2016 - Hurling League Champions, Football League Semi finalists

omaghjoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2508
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics make up 78% of free state population.👍👍👍
« Reply #160 on: April 21, 2017, 12:08:06 AM »
here's some commentary on the bible as an ancient text - forgetting about content:
Quote
the manuscript evidence for the New Testament is stunning. The most recent count (1980) shows 5,366 separate Greek manuscripts represented by early fragments, uncial codices (manuscripts in capital Greek letters bound together in book form), and minuscules (small Greek letters in cursive style)![7]

Among the nearly 3,000 minuscule fragments are 34 complete New Testaments dating from the 9th to the 15th Centuries.[8]

Uncial manuscripts provide virtually complete codices (multiple books of the New Testament bound together into one volume) back to the 4th Century, though some are a bit younger. Codex Sinaiticus, purchased by the British government from the Soviet government at Christmas, 1933, for 100,000,[9] is dated c. 340.[10] The nearly complete Codex Vaticanus is the oldest uncial, dated c. 325-350.[11] Codex Alexandrinus contains the whole Old Testament and a nearly complete New Testament and dates from the late 4th Century to the early 5th Century.

The most fascinating evidence comes from the fragments (as opposed to the codices). The Chester Beatty Papyri contains most of the New Testament and is dated mid-3rd Century.[12] The Bodmer Papyri II collection, whose discovery was announced in 1956, includes the first fourteen chapters of the Gospel of John and much of the last seven chapters. It dates from A.D. 200 or earlier.[13]

The most amazing find of all, however, is a small portion of John 18:31-33, discovered in Egypt known as the John Rylands Papyri. Barely three inches square, it represents the earliest known copy of any part of the New Testament. The papyri is dated on paleographical grounds at around A.D. 117-138 (though it may even be earlier),[14] showing that the Gospel of John was circulated as far away as Egypt within 30 years of its composition.

Keep in mind that most of the papyri are fragmentary. Only about 50 manuscripts contain the entire New Testament, though most of the other manuscripts contain the four Gospels. Even so, the manuscript textual evidence is exceedingly rich, especially when compared to other works of antiquity.

The argument of chinese whispers and inaccurate text is no longer contested by non-Christian scholars, and for good reason. Simply put, if we reject the authenticity of the New Testament on textual grounds we'd have to reject every ancient work of antiquity and declare null and void every piece of historical information from written sources prior to the beginning of the second millennium A.D.

Has the New Testament been altered? Critical, academic analysis says it has not.

What's your take on the Dead Sea Scrolls? If I recall correctly they tell of Jesus surviving the crucifixion, retiring from public life, joining some monk order called the Essenes (sp?) and starting a family with Mary Magdalene in some quiet corner somewhere.

I thought they didnt mention him at all. Are you sure that not the Andrew Lloyd Weber scrolls?

The Iceman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3397
  • Here comes the Pain
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics make up 78% of free state population.👍👍👍
« Reply #161 on: April 21, 2017, 01:21:28 PM »
here's some commentary on the bible as an ancient text - forgetting about content:
Quote
the manuscript evidence for the New Testament is stunning. The most recent count (1980) shows 5,366 separate Greek manuscripts represented by early fragments, uncial codices (manuscripts in capital Greek letters bound together in book form), and minuscules (small Greek letters in cursive style)![7]

Among the nearly 3,000 minuscule fragments are 34 complete New Testaments dating from the 9th to the 15th Centuries.[8]

Uncial manuscripts provide virtually complete codices (multiple books of the New Testament bound together into one volume) back to the 4th Century, though some are a bit younger. Codex Sinaiticus, purchased by the British government from the Soviet government at Christmas, 1933, for 100,000,[9] is dated c. 340.[10] The nearly complete Codex Vaticanus is the oldest uncial, dated c. 325-350.[11] Codex Alexandrinus contains the whole Old Testament and a nearly complete New Testament and dates from the late 4th Century to the early 5th Century.

The most fascinating evidence comes from the fragments (as opposed to the codices). The Chester Beatty Papyri contains most of the New Testament and is dated mid-3rd Century.[12] The Bodmer Papyri II collection, whose discovery was announced in 1956, includes the first fourteen chapters of the Gospel of John and much of the last seven chapters. It dates from A.D. 200 or earlier.[13]

The most amazing find of all, however, is a small portion of John 18:31-33, discovered in Egypt known as the John Rylands Papyri. Barely three inches square, it represents the earliest known copy of any part of the New Testament. The papyri is dated on paleographical grounds at around A.D. 117-138 (though it may even be earlier),[14] showing that the Gospel of John was circulated as far away as Egypt within 30 years of its composition.

Keep in mind that most of the papyri are fragmentary. Only about 50 manuscripts contain the entire New Testament, though most of the other manuscripts contain the four Gospels. Even so, the manuscript textual evidence is exceedingly rich, especially when compared to other works of antiquity.

The argument of chinese whispers and inaccurate text is no longer contested by non-Christian scholars, and for good reason. Simply put, if we reject the authenticity of the New Testament on textual grounds we'd have to reject every ancient work of antiquity and declare null and void every piece of historical information from written sources prior to the beginning of the second millennium A.D.

Has the New Testament been altered? Critical, academic analysis says it has not.

What's your take on the Dead Sea Scrolls? If I recall correctly they tell of Jesus surviving the crucifixion, retiring from public life, joining some monk order called the Essenes (sp?) and starting a family with Mary Magdalene in some quiet corner somewhere.
whats your take on the accuracy of the bible as a document?
the dead sea scrolls contained a copy of the book of Isiah which was 1100 years older than any copy in existence at the time. Estimated to be 200BC.  The dead sea scrolls further highlight the accuracy of the old testament and the skill of the Jewish scholars in preserving texts.
I don't believe the stories you are referring to are in the dead sea scrolls. I think they're from one of those other gospel of thomas or something like that....
but how about you comment on the accuracy of the bible as an ancient text?
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight

Eamonnca1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4451
  • Catching the world in my headlights of justice
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics make up 78% of free state population.👍👍👍
« Reply #162 on: April 21, 2017, 09:20:58 PM »

whats your take on the accuracy of the bible as a document?
the dead sea scrolls contained a copy of the book of Isiah which was 1100 years older than any copy in existence at the time. Estimated to be 200BC.  The dead sea scrolls further highlight the accuracy of the old testament and the skill of the Jewish scholars in preserving texts.
I don't believe the stories you are referring to are in the dead sea scrolls. I think they're from one of those other gospel of thomas or something like that....
but how about you comment on the accuracy of the bible as an ancient text?

I think the gnostic gospels (Gospel of Mary, Gospel of Judas, etc.) are interesting. The story behind why they didn't make the "final cut" of the Bible is a great story in itself.

What I take from the Bible is that there probably was a Jesus-type character who was a "prophet" in the sense of being a philosopher and public speaker, since that was a common thing in Palestine at the time. The re-telling of some of the stories has lost some accuracy along the way, which is a pity because some of the intended lessons were lost. Case in point; the feeding of the 5000. It's told today as him performing a miracle by converting small amounts of fish and bread into large amounts. What really happened was people in those days carried food around with them because there wasn't exactly a grocery store or cafe on every corner. Some of his followers had run out of food, so he got everyone to put a bit of their food into a pile that could be evenly redistributed among the crowd. It was a lesson about collective effort to help everyone.

Did the crucifixion happen? Sounds about right since the Roman state felt a bit threatened by civil unrest he was stirring up with his newfangled ideas. The Romans wanted stability.

Did the resurrection happen? Obviously not, but if he somehow survived the crucifixion and was seen alive afterwards then that would explain how that little story got out to a small number of people. People being misdiagnosed as dead is not unheard of. If an earthquake coincided with his apparent "death" then the superstitious nature in everyone would have pounced on that as a meaningful event.

As for the old testament, some interesting creation myths in there. I heard once that there is evidence of a big ancient flood in the Black Sea region, so that would have fueled the Noah story.

So my personal take on the Bible a scripture in general is that there's probably a kernel of truth in a lot of it, but I don't accept supernatural explanations. I mean, what do you think is more likely? Mary was impregnated by an alien or was she fooling around with someone and decided to stick to her story? That said, there are some good lessons and messages in there. You can agree with the teachings of Ghandi without being Hindu, and you can agree with a lot of the teachings of Jesus without being a Christian.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 09:44:09 PM by Eamonnca1 »

The Iceman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3397
  • Here comes the Pain
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics make up 78% of free state population.👍👍👍
« Reply #163 on: April 21, 2017, 10:19:36 PM »

whats your take on the accuracy of the bible as a document?
the dead sea scrolls contained a copy of the book of Isiah which was 1100 years older than any copy in existence at the time. Estimated to be 200BC.  The dead sea scrolls further highlight the accuracy of the old testament and the skill of the Jewish scholars in preserving texts.
I don't believe the stories you are referring to are in the dead sea scrolls. I think they're from one of those other gospel of thomas or something like that....
but how about you comment on the accuracy of the bible as an ancient text?

I think the gnostic gospels (Gospel of Mary, Gospel of Judas, etc.) are interesting. The story behind why they didn't make the "final cut" of the Bible is a great story in itself.

What I take from the Bible is that there probably was a Jesus-type character who was a "prophet" in the sense of being a philosopher and public speaker, since that was a common thing in Palestine at the time. The re-telling of some of the stories has lost some accuracy along the way, which is a pity because some of the intended lessons were lost. Case in point; the feeding of the 5000. It's told today as him performing a miracle by converting small amounts of fish and bread into large amounts. What really happened was people in those days carried food around with them because there wasn't exactly a grocery store or cafe on every corner. Some of his followers had run out of food, so he got everyone to put a bit of their food into a pile that could be evenly redistributed among the crowd. It was a lesson about collective effort to help everyone.

Did the crucifixion happen? Sounds about right since the Roman state felt a bit threatened by civil unrest he was stirring up with his newfangled ideas. The Romans wanted stability.

Did the resurrection happen? Obviously not, but if he somehow survived the crucifixion and was seen alive afterwards then that would explain how that little story got out to a small number of people. People being misdiagnosed as dead is not unheard of. If an earthquake coincided with his apparent "death" then the superstitious nature in everyone would have pounced on that as a meaningful event.

As for the old testament, some interesting creation myths in there. I heard once that there is evidence of a big ancient flood in the Black Sea region, so that would have fueled the Noah story.

So my personal take on the Bible a scripture in general is that there's probably a kernel of truth in a lot of it, but I don't accept supernatural explanations. I mean, what do you think is more likely? Mary was impregnated by an alien or was she fooling around with someone and decided to stick to her story? That said, there are some good lessons and messages in there. You can agree with the teachings of Ghandi without being Hindu, and you can agree with a lot of the teachings of Jesus without being a Christian.
Eamonn did you read the commentary I posted about the accuracy of the bible as a document? There has been no watering down in the retelling of anything.  The dead sea scrolls presented a document from 200BC, the oldest one they had (Old testament) was 900AD and they were identical. No watering down. 
I'm not interested in how you interpret the bible. I'm interested if you will admit that it isn't watered down or hasn't changed and as an ancient text is the most accurate document known to man...?
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight

Eamonnca1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4451
  • Catching the world in my headlights of justice
    • View Profile
Re: Catholics make up 78% of free state population.👍👍👍
« Reply #164 on: April 22, 2017, 12:36:54 AM »
As stated above, I think it's fairly accurate in some places but not so accurate in others. Particularly the bits where the laws of physics are violated.