The death penalty. Yes or no?

[Orior]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0430/613896-oklahoma-execution/

Just curious if anyone has any sympathy for him?  The only shame to me is that the other sick b*****d didn't meet the same or a worse fate.

I read about this in Time magazine and was actually going to post it, but you beat me too it.

For me, the whole affair is another good reason to abolish capital punishment. The alternative should be a mixture of lock-up, community service and perhaps a limited amount of public flogging by the victim's family.

[AZOffaly]

Very hard to have sympathy with this guy, if he is guilty of what he has been convicted of, however my confidence in the US justice system is fairly low, I'd be skeptical of some of the guilty verdicts handed down, and we've all seen, sometimes years later, that inmates have been removed off death row for reasons related to unsafe or downright bad convictions.

Is society willing to execute innocent men and women, in order that guilty ones also get the chop? I'd be uncomfortable with that myself to be honest.

Having said that, whoever did actually kill this girl, buried alive for fucks sake, or the poor 11 month old deserves no sympathy and probably everything they get.

[deiseach]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0430/613896-oklahoma-execution/

Just curious if anyone has any sympathy for him?  The only shame to me is that the other sick b*****d didn't meet the same or a worse fate.

I read about this in Time magazine and was actually going to post it, but you beat me too it.

For me, the whole affair is another good reason to abolish capital punishment. The alternative should be a mixture of lock-up, community service and perhaps a limited amount of public flogging by the victim's family.

I can't read that without thinking of Alan Rickman in Die Hard...

This case shouldn't change anyone's mind on the death penalty, at least not on its own. Those against the death penalty have to factor in letting truly evil pieces of filth live when the families of their victims have to endure their own death sentence. Those in favour of the death penalty have to accept that innocent people are going to get it no matter how hard you try to avoid it. However, what this case should do is force proponents of the death penalty to consider what it actually involves. If you truly believe that inflicting appalling levels of pain on someone because they're bad is okay, where do you draw the line? If the state introduces Saw-style executions, would you be okay with that?

[muppet]

If out of a 100 death sentences, 99 of those executed were guilty, it still wouldn't be worth it to me. That 1 innocent person executed makes you (the system behind the death sentence) just as bad as the other 99.

[93-DY-SAM]

Is there any level of torture punishment you wouldn't tolerate?

When it comes to a sick & disgusting crime like this against a child and there is absolutely 100% no doubt in any way shape or form about who did it, then no.

[give her dixie]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0430/613896-oklahoma-execution/

Just curious if anyone has any sympathy for him?  The only shame to me is that the other sick b*****d didn't meet the same or a worse fate.

No sympathy at all. Poetic justice.

So, using that logic, you would have had no problem with hundreds of Irish men been executed for their convictions of murder down the years? Would that have been poetic justice?

Dixie, whats your irish nationalism mindset got to do with a 19year old innocent female brutally beaten, held captive, raped & buried alive. Her parents released the below statement where they are thankful that the killer rapist has been executed. That's good enough for me. 

THE STATEMENT OF SUSIE AND STEVE NEIMAN

God blessed us with our precious daughter, Stephanie for 19 years. Stephanie loved children.

She worked in Vacation Bible School and always helped with our Church nativity scenes. She was the joy of our life. We are thankful this day has finally arrived and justice will finally be served.

Susie and Steve Neiman, 4-29-14

I'm just pointing out that murder is murder, no matter where in the world it is. Horrific murders took place here. Should the culprits here have been given the death penalty?

[deiseach]

Is there any level of torture punishment you wouldn't tolerate?

When it comes to a sick & disgusting crime like this against a child and there is absolutely 100% no doubt in any way shape or form about who did it, then no.

Okay, fair enough.

[J70]

When you get into a debate like this people automatically wheel out the arguments about what if this person or that one had the death penalty applied.  Life isn't that black and white and each case is unique and has it's own specific set of circumstances.  I wouldn't advocate the death penalty in most cases where it is currently applied however when it comes to crimes like that committed by a sc**bag like Charles Warner I think the death penalty is fully deserved if it's proven beyond any doubt that they committed that crime.  What he did to an 11 month old child is utterly sickening. If you can stomach it imagine being that 11 month child for a split second and then ask yourself why should someone who can do that to a child deserve the right to live?

Unfortunately, that is not the case a lot of the time. Eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable, lab analyses can be botched or corrupt, cops and DAs can be corrupt, lawyers can be incompetent or corrupt, minorities are far more likely to receive a death sentence etc. etc. I saw a headline the other day that stated that as many as 25% of death penalty convictions are now under suspicion. It needs to be abolished.

Edit - 1 in 25 death row inmates innocent - doesn't change my point.

[muppet]

When you get into a debate like this people automatically wheel out the arguments about what if this person or that one had the death penalty applied.  Life isn't that black and white and each case is unique and has it's own specific set of circumstances.  I wouldn't advocate the death penalty in most cases where it is currently applied however when it comes to crimes like that committed by a sc**bag like Charles Warner I think the death penalty is fully deserved if it's proven beyond any doubt that they committed that crime.  What he did to an 11 month old child is utterly sickening. If you can stomach it imagine being that 11 month child for a split second and then ask yourself why should someone who can do that to a child deserve the right to live?

Unfortunately, that is not the case a lot of the time. Eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable, lab analyses can be botched or corrupt, cops and DAs can be corrupt, lawyers can be incompetent or corrupt, minorities are far more likely to receive a death sentence etc. etc. I saw a headline the other day that stated that as many as 25% of death penalty convictions are now under suspicion. It needs to be abolished.

http://www-psych.stanford.edu/~bigopp/witness.html

HUNDREDS of people watched the crash of American Airlines Flight 587 near Kennedy International Airport in New York on Nov. 12, and in the course of 93 seconds they apparently saw hundreds of different things.

According to the National Transportation Safety Board, which announced this month that it had gathered 349 eyewitness accounts through interviews or written statements, 52 percent said they saw a fire while the plane was in the air. The largest number (22 percent) said the fire was in the fuselage, but a majority cited other locations, including the left engine, the right engine, the left wing, the right wing or an unspecified engine or wing.

Nearly one of five witnesses said they saw the plane make a right turn; an equal number said it was a left turn. Nearly 60 percent said they saw something fall off the plane; of these, 13 percent said it was a wing. (In fact, it was the vertical portion of the tail.)

The investigators say there is no evidence in the wreckage or on the flight recorders of an in-flight fire or explosion. A plane breaking up in flight, as this one did, might in its last moments produce flashes of fire from engines ripping loose, but the idea that the plane caught fire is a trick of memory, they say.

None of this is surprising, said Dr. Charles R. Honts, a professor of psychology at Boise State University and the editor of the Journal of Credibility Assessment and Witness Psychology. "Eyewitness memory is reconstructive," said Dr. Honts, who is not associated with the safety board. "The biggest mistake you can make is to think about a memory like it's a videotape; there's not a permanent record there."

[mylestheslasher]

93-DY-SAM: I totally agree. What these guys both did was a vile act and as far as I am concerned these bastards handed in their "civil rights" license when they did that crime. It is karma that he died the way he did, the other sc**bag should've got the same. What is also sickening is the long line of clowns lining up to bemoan the poor creatur and the terrible american system. I wonder if it was their 11 month old child that was raped and murdered or their sister that was raped and buried alive would they be so understanding of the perpetrator. The yanks are right on this one. Who the hell wants to pay to keep these types of people locked up or try to rehabilitate them, there is no way back to civilised society from such acts.

I am not in favour of the death penalty for all murder cases but in vile extreme cases like this then absolutely they deserve to die roaring.

[AZOffaly]

And what if DNA evidence comes up in 5 years time that clears one or both of them? And to clarify If they are guilty I have no sympathy for them at all, but how can ever be 100% sure unless they admit it themselves and the evidence backs up the confession?

[mylestheslasher]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0430/613896-oklahoma-execution/

Just curious if anyone has any sympathy for him?  The only shame to me is that the other sick b*****d didn't meet the same or a worse fate.

No sympathy at all. Poetic justice.

So, using that logic, you would have had no problem with hundreds of Irish men been executed for their convictions of murder down the years? Would that have been poetic justice?

Dixie, whats your irish nationalism mindset got to do with a 19year old innocent female brutally beaten, held captive, raped & buried alive. Her parents released the below statement where they are thankful that the killer rapist has been executed. That's good enough for me. 

THE STATEMENT OF SUSIE AND STEVE NEIMAN

God blessed us with our precious daughter, Stephanie for 19 years. Stephanie loved children.

She worked in Vacation Bible School and always helped with our Church nativity scenes. She was the joy of our life. We are thankful this day has finally arrived and justice will finally be served.

Susie and Steve Neiman, 4-29-14

I'm just pointing out that murder is murder, no matter where in the world it is. Horrific murders took place here. Should the culprits here have been given the death penalty?

What would you do with them Dixie if not put them out of their misery. Rehabilitate them? Leave them in solitary 24/7 for the rest of their lives (surely another form of torture). Tell me what do you do with people as vile and disgusting as these. I'd really love to know what the humane alternative is.

[mylestheslasher]

And what if DNA evidence comes up in 5 years time that clears one or both of them? And to clarify If they are guilty I have no sympathy for them at all, but how can ever be 100% sure unless they admit it themselves and the evidence backs up the confession?

If you have eye witness account, forensic, DNA and everything says its this guy then you can be as close to 100% certain as matters. Its not like everyone who murders in the US gets executed is it?

[AZOffaly]

Not everyone who murders in the US gets executed. And not everyone who gets executed has murdered either.

http://www.criminaljusticedegreesguide.com/features/10-infamous-cases-of-wrongful-execution.html

[J70]

And what if DNA evidence comes up in 5 years time that clears one or both of them? And to clarify If they are guilty I have no sympathy for them at all, but how can ever be 100% sure unless they admit it themselves and the evidence backs up the confession?

If you have eye witness account, forensic, DNA and everything says its this guy then you can be as close to 100% certain as matters. Its not like everyone who murders in the US gets executed is it?

And how do you guarantee there isn't some corruption at work in the investigation or prosecution? Its not exactly unprecedented.

I would be of the same mind that I have no objection to the execution of the vilest, cold-blooded murderers, but I have little faith in the honesty and impartiality and competence of the justice system. At least when the person is alive, there is a possibility of reprieve.