Since it's looking like an election in early March, I think a seperate thread on the upcoming election is worth starting.
Stormont is very norn irn
The benches in Westminster are green but that was unacceptable for use at Stormont. According to wikipedia:
The painting The Entry of King William into Ireland, a gift from the Dutch government to its Northern Ireland counterpart, was hung in the House of Commons when it opened. However, it was removed after having been defaced by a Scottish preacher, who had travelled from Scotland for that express purpose. The reason for his anger was that the painting also showed the Pope, who had blessed William's enterprise.
The building itself changed little over the years, even as the parliaments meeting inside it did. To camouflage it during World War II, the building's Portland stone was painted with supposedly removable "paint" made of bitumen and cow manure. However, after the war, removing the paint proved an enormous difficulty, with the paint having scarred the stonework. It took seven years to remove the "paint", and the exterior façade has never regained its original white colour. While most traces of it were removed from the façades (though having done damage that can be seen up close), some of the remains of the paint survive in the inner courtyards and unseen parts of the place.
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2017, 12:41:37 PM
Stormont is very norn irn
The benches in Westminster are green but that was unacceptable for use at Stormont. According to wikipedia:
The painting The Entry of King William into Ireland, a gift from the Dutch government to its Northern Ireland counterpart, was hung in the House of Commons when it opened. However, it was removed after having been defaced by a Scottish preacher, who had travelled from Scotland for that express purpose. The reason for his anger was that the painting also showed the Pope, who had blessed William's enterprise.
The building itself changed little over the years, even as the parliaments meeting inside it did. To camouflage it during World War II, the building's Portland stone was painted with supposedly removable "paint" made of bitumen and cow manure. However, after the war, removing the paint proved an enormous difficulty, with the paint having scarred the stonework. It took seven years to remove the "paint", and the exterior façade has never regained its original white colour. While most traces of it were removed from the façades (though having done damage that can be seen up close), some of the remains of the paint survive in the inner courtyards and unseen parts of the place.
No shit.
Quote from: AQMP on January 16, 2017, 02:11:07 PM
Interesting one reported by Sam McBride on Twitter that Catherine Seeley (SF) has announced she won't be standing in this election. She was only elected in May 2016 following a close call/brilliant vote management in Upper Bann as SF took two seats and ousted Dolores Kelly.
Caitríona Ruane has also said she wont be standing in the upcoming election
Quote from: AQMP on January 16, 2017, 02:11:07 PM
Interesting one reported by Sam McBride on Twitter that Catherine Seeley (SF) has announced she won't be standing in this election. She was only elected in May 2016 following a close call/brilliant vote management in Upper Bann as SF took two seats and ousted Dolores Kelly.
A lot of sitting MLAs won't be nominated because the number of seats is down from 6to 5 in each constituency. I would assume that factors high in the decision to stand down by SF. Also relevant is the number of standing DUP MLAs saying they won't canvas.
Will the UUP make it a Brexit election? Or a DUP are crooked election. What have the SDLP other than a few decent MLAs to offer? And can they make any headway? SF constituency as strong as they believe?
Will voters turn out?
This election could serve a useful purpose it is creates a majority of MLA's willing to vote for special treatment for NI to mitigate the consequences of Brexit. The British may not pay much heed, but an assembly that fails to ask is a waste of space. This would require one of the PBP loonies to lose to SF/SDLP and for Alliance to hold the centre seats, while the DUP lose a seat or two in the smaller assembly. This outcome seems perfectly possible.
James Craig
April 1934, in response to George Leeke's question regarding Craig's Protestant Parliament:
The hon. Member must remember that in the South they boasted of a Catholic State. They still boast of Southern Ireland being a Catholic State. All I boast of is that we are a Protestant Parliament and a Protestant State. It would be rather interesting for historians of the future to compare a Catholic State launched in the South with a Protestant State launched in the North and to see which gets on the better and prospers the more. It is most interesting for me at the moment to watch how they are progressing. I am doing my best always to top the bill and to be ahead of the South
Quote from: armaghniac on January 16, 2017, 02:48:21 PM
This election could serve a useful purpose it is creates a majority of MLA's willing to vote for special treatment for NI to mitigate the consequences of Brexit. The British may not pay much heed, but an assembly that fails to ask is a waste of space. This would require one of the PBP loonies to lose to SF/SDLP and for Alliance to hold the centre seats, while the DUP lose a seat or two in the smaller assembly. This outcome seems perfectly possible.
Is anyone in the DUP anti Brexit?
Quote from: AQMP on January 16, 2017, 02:11:07 PM
Interesting one reported by Sam McBride on Twitter that Catherine Seeley (SF) has announced she won't be standing in this election. She was only elected in May 2016 following a close call/brilliant vote management in Upper Bann as SF took two seats and ousted Dolores Kelly.
Talk on Twitter is that she is taking up a teaching post again
Quote from: AQMP on January 16, 2017, 02:26:52 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 16, 2017, 02:19:55 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 16, 2017, 02:11:07 PM
Interesting one reported by Sam McBride on Twitter that Catherine Seeley (SF) has announced she won't be standing in this election. She was only elected in May 2016 following a close call/brilliant vote management in Upper Bann as SF took two seats and ousted Dolores Kelly.
A lot of sitting MLAs won't be nominated because the number of seats is down from 6to 5 in each constituency. I would assume that factors high in the decision to stand down by SF. Also relevant is the number of standing DUP MLAs saying they won't canvas.
Will the UUP make it a Brexit election? Or a DUP are crooked election. What have the SDLP other than a few decent MLAs to offer? And can they make any headway? SF constituency as strong as they believe?
Will voters turn out?
Having bust a gut to get two seats last time, there aren't two SF seats in a 5 seater. I wonder if SDLP pick up enough transfers from SF could they nick a seat seat from UUP?
Even with nationalist turnout down there are 2 nationalist quotas there, it'd be a tighter act but not beyond them.
SF must be running 2 If they thought there wasnt a chance of 2 seats in a constituency that is nearly 45% catholic then there really is no hope for nationalism
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on January 16, 2017, 03:46:20 PM
SF must be running 2 If they thought there wasnt a chance of 2 seats in a constituency that is nearly 45% catholic then there really is no hope for nationalism
To get two seats would require very disciplined vote management. It will need plenty of canvassers, division of territory and no poaching and of course an electorate who will buy in to the process. It may be easier to manage in the Belfast constituencies
Quote from: AQMP on January 16, 2017, 02:26:52 PM
Quote from: heganboy on January 16, 2017, 02:19:55 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 16, 2017, 02:11:07 PM
Interesting one reported by Sam McBride on Twitter that Catherine Seeley (SF) has announced she won't be standing in this election. She was only elected in May 2016 following a close call/brilliant vote management in Upper Bann as SF took two seats and ousted Dolores Kelly.
A lot of sitting MLAs won't be nominated because the number of seats is down from 6to 5 in each constituency. I would assume that factors high in the decision to stand down by SF. Also relevant is the number of standing DUP MLAs saying they won't canvas.
Will the UUP make it a Brexit election? Or a DUP are crooked election. What have the SDLP other than a few decent MLAs to offer? And can they make any headway? SF constituency as strong as they believe?
Will voters turn out?
Having bust a gut to get two seats last time, there aren't two SF seats in a 5 seater. I wonder if SDLP pick up enough transfers from SF could they nick a seat seat from UUP?
Here's the data from 2016
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/northern-ireland-constituencies/N06000017 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/northern-ireland-constituencies/N06000017)
The quota will rise in 2017 to 7615 for 5 seats.
DUP 14,188 2 seats 2016
SF 11,373 2 seats 2016
UUP 9,884 2 seats 2016
SDLP 4,335
Alliance 1,424
TUV 1,177
UKIP 1,072
CISTA 704
PUP 672
Green 495
Labour 250
Cons 79
Ind 33
Quota 7615
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on January 16, 2017, 03:46:20 PM
SF must be running 2 If they thought there wasnt a chance of 2 seats in a constituency that is nearly 45% catholic then there really is no hope for nationalism
Based on 2016 election, only 34% of those who voted were SF and SDLP first preference voters. Given the lack of transfers for SF from anyone else they will again struggle to get two elected, last time it was only on the final stage.
The point is there are easily 2 nationalist quotas. SFs' 2 although difficult just has to stay im front of SDLP. Who ever is ahead will reach the quota when the other is eliminated with transfers hence why it would be extremely negative to just field 1 candidate. Even if the 2nd candidate fails it raises their profile and gives them good experience so all in all daft not to give it a go.
Is Catherine Seeley not going to pursue her career as a Cilla Black impressionist?
Good news for SF in UB. Dolores kelly is standing for the SDLP. Probably only Alex Attwood in West Belfast who has overseen a worse collapse in a parties vote. Just shows the dearth in talent when failure keeps getting rewarded
For the first time in maybe close on 20 years I'm not going to vote, they can all f**k off.
Quote from: bennydorano on January 16, 2017, 08:19:04 PM
For the first time in maybe close on 20 years I'm not going to vote, they can all f**k off.
Yeah that's how I feel
I see Paddy Power has Arlene at 4/9 to be First Minister and Michelle O'Neill evens to be DFM after the election
Quote from: bennydorano on January 16, 2017, 08:19:04 PM
For the first time in maybe close on 20 years I'm not going to vote, they can all f**k off.
But unfortunately that means you are happy with the status quo.
Big fan of the Quo.
If the DUP vote doesn't fall after the last 12 months, stormont will never work.
Quote from: Orior on January 16, 2017, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 16, 2017, 08:19:04 PM
For the first time in maybe close on 20 years I'm not going to vote, they can all f**k off.
But unfortunately that means you are happy with the status quo.
Agreed they may all be useless but the DUP are on a whole new level. Use your vote to make a difference. It would be worth it just to take the stupid grin off the likes of Arlene and Gregory
Quote from: bennydorano on January 16, 2017, 08:19:04 PM
For the first time in maybe close on 20 years I'm not going to vote, they can all f**k off.
Not voting doesn't mean 'f**k off'. Not voting means that you're sending out a message that says 'keep doing what you're doing and I'll certainly not prevent you ripping me off any more'.
if you can vote, please do
Spare me the nonsense plz. We'll be re-grouping mid-March to facilitate more charades from the same faces. SF are every bit as bad as the DUP as well.
Lads you need to get out an vote. Don't go and do the stupid thing be smart.
Vote who??
Quote from: bennydorano on January 16, 2017, 10:33:06 PM
SF are every bit as bad as the DUP as well.
Then go out and vote for everyone else.
If 2016 taught us anything it's that not voting has a major impact on outcomes, fingers crossed - I'm going for that bizzaro world outcome.
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2017, 10:43:53 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 16, 2017, 10:33:06 PM
SF are every bit as bad as the DUP as well.
Then go out and vote for everyone else.
Exactly. Use your vote as a protest vote. It's not exactly like voting takes up the whole day.
New parties and new faces required to make a difference to move away from tribalism and the totally stupid preoccupation with the obsolete philosophies of Unionism and Nationalism.
Quote from: T Fearon on January 16, 2017, 10:57:45 PM
New parties and new faces required to make a difference to move away from tribalism and the totally obsolete preoccupation with the obsolete philosophies of Unionism and Nationalism.
Sorry that nobody uses your posts as a barometer of public opinion Fearon. Are you still banging on that the SDLP and SF are out of touch with the nationalist electorate because of their support for gay marriage and that the marriage referendum in the south shows that southerners are so different to northerners that a UI is impossible? Because if you go through the polling posted in either this thread or the RHI one, you'll find that well over 90% of Catholics support gay marriage. Most of them were also pretty supportive of a UI.
EDIT: Here it is, from the RHI thread.
Quote from: Take Your Points on January 14, 2017, 10:09:40 PM
Check out this recent polling and the changes after RHI comes to the fore:
https://lucidtalk.co.uk/images/News/LTDec16TrackerPollResults-GeneralRpt.pdf (https://lucidtalk.co.uk/images/News/LTDec16TrackerPollResults-GeneralRpt.pdf)
92% of Catholic's support gay marriage. Only 4.3% see the UK staying in the EU and the north staying in the UK as the ideal constitutional settlement.
Quote from: T Fearon on January 16, 2017, 10:57:45 PM
New parties and new faces required to make a difference to move away from tribalism and the totally stupid preoccupation with the obsolete philosophies of Unionism and Nationalism.
Off you go and start one then ;D
Regressive non Unionist non Nationalist Party Six Counties Abú Party.
Quote from: T Fearon on January 16, 2017, 10:57:45 PM
New parties and new faces required to make a difference to move away from tribalism and the totally stupid preoccupation with the obsolete philosophies of Unionism and Nationalism.
Book a hotel for a launch !!!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2017, 10:34:49 PM
Vote who??
Go out and spoil your vote. If say 30% of the votes were spoiled, it'd at least make a statement and maybe precipitate a change
Someone pointed this out on Slugger
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-38634728
I'm sure Milltown Row will welcome having to pay for his doctor like much of the rest of the Irish nation.
More seriously, the Tories will be pushing cutbacks of all sorts and the local lot will face this and a lot of pressure from agriculture and so on for money post EU. Perhaps those MLAs that are not running again are the wise ones.
Quote from: armaghniac on January 17, 2017, 12:42:07 AM
Someone pointed this out on Slugger
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-38634728
I'm sure Milltown Row will welcome having to pay for his doctor like much of the rest of the Irish nation.
More seriously, the Tories will be pushing cutbacks of all sorts and the local lot will face this and a lot of pressure from agriculture and so on for money post EU. Perhaps those MLAs that are not running again are the wise ones.
If paying for services makes it a better service then why not?
Quote from: OgraAnDun on January 16, 2017, 10:13:52 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 16, 2017, 08:19:04 PM
For the first time in maybe close on 20 years I'm not going to vote, they can all f**k off.
Not voting doesn't mean 'f**k off'. Not voting means that you're sending out a message that says 'keep doing what you're doing and I'll certainly not prevent you ripping me off any more'.
Spot on
Well folks, drew up my prediction for March 2nd election:
Election 2017 predictions
Fermanagh South Tyrone: 2DUP 2SF 1UUP
Newry\Armagh: 2SF 1DUP 1UUP 1SDLP
W Belfast: 4SF 1PBP
S Belfast: 2DUP 1SDLP 1SF 1AP
N Belfast: 3DUP 2SF
E Belfast: 3DUP 2AP
North Down: 2DUP 1GP 1UUP 1AP
Stangford: 3DUP 1UUP 1AP
South Down: 2SDLP 2SF 1DUP
Upper Bann: 2DUP 2UUP 1SF
Lagan Valley: 3DUP 1AP 1UUP
South Antrim: 3DUP 1SF 1UUP
East Antrim: 3DUP 1UUP 1AP
North Antrim: 3DUP 1TUV 1SF
Mid Ulster: 3SF 1SDLP 1DUP
East Derry: 3DUP 1SF 1IND
Foyle: 2SDLP 2SF 1DUP
West Tyrone: 3SF 1DUP 1SDLP
DUP: 37
SF: 25
UUP: 9
SDLP: 8
AP: 7
GP: 1
TUV: 1
PBP: 1
IND: 1
Don't think the scandals will effect the DUPs performance as unionists will stick by the DUP regardless but again I could be wrong. Some seats will be very tight for the last remaining seat, transfers will be very important this time around.
Unless you go out and vote for the Ulster Unionists your vote won't make a dam bit of difference to the DUP.
Quote from: T Fearon on January 16, 2017, 10:57:45 PM
New parties and new faces required to make a difference to move away from tribalism and the totally stupid preoccupation with the obsolete philosophies of Unionism and Nationalism.
Also new genders. Think how making the trans journey as a society could change NI for the better. And create a truly unique NI and thus fulfil the Fearon scripture.
Below age 40 nationalists outweigh unionists. But in voting ages Unionist out number nationalists.
This might be the case for another 20 years. But the demographics seem to be relentless.
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2017, 10:18:24 AM
Below age 40 nationalists outweigh unionists. But in voting ages Unionist out number nationalists.
This might be the case for another 20 years. But the demographics seem to be relentless.
The people are changing though and this push for the Northern Irish identity is changing what being a nationalist or unionist is, its possibly more cultural than patriotic.
We are repeatedly told of how the majority of Nationalists don't want a unified Ireland, which is quite strange since they are termed nationalists.
SF running 4 candidates in FST last time out cost them a seat, if they run 3 this time out they should get them all returned.
There are 2 seats in Upper Bann for SF if they manage their vote properly.
I reckon Newry & Armagh will be 3SF, 1DUP & 1SDLP with Danny Kennedy to lose out.
Strangford will be interesting to see if Jonathan Bell damages the DUP vote.
Quote from: MoChara on January 17, 2017, 11:41:48 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2017, 10:18:24 AM
Below age 40 nationalists outweigh unionists. But in voting ages Unionist out number nationalists.
This might be the case for another 20 years. But the demographics seem to be relentless.
The people are changing though and this push for the Northern Irish identity is changing what being a nationalist or unionist is, its possibly more cultural than patriotic.
We are repeatedly told of how the majority of Nationalists don't want a unified Ireland, which is quite strange since they are termed nationalists.
There are many pseudo nationalists, but even these should not be keen on a Brexit UK with an NI dominated by a bigoted DUP. Consequently, they should get off their arses and go out and vote and transfer down the line to the likes of Alliance, Greens and even UU to get the DUP below the 30.
Agree with this. Lodging the petition of concern yesterday to keep Robin Newton in his seat was an absolute joke. Especially when ALL the rest of the parties, across the divide, agreed that he should be removed. It shows the contempt with which the DUP treat the rest of the parties in the Assembly and the 'institutions'. There was absolutely no sound basis for the POC's use here.
I dearly hope that the moderate unionist voters who the DUP have recently recruited see this but I'd have my doubts.
Quote from: OakleafCounty on January 17, 2017, 08:44:56 AM
Unless you go out and vote for the Ulster Unionists your vote won't make a dam bit of difference to the DUP.
This kind of attitude will forever condemn NI to DUP rule and the UUP wouldnt be much better given the chance think Tom scum Elliot. As noted earler doesnt matter if you dont like SDLP SF then vote green or Alliance or independent and transfer along least unlikeable if must but it will all help get DUP below 30 seats so they cant keep abusing poc
What i would like to see is the true figures for the cost to the tax payer of
DUP/Prodestant side
Expenses Scandel
RHI
Red Sky
Nama
Policing Orange order parades (including twaddle twat)
Pipe band grant
Orange hall grant
Dee skitter (UDA Payments)
TOTAL=
SF/Catholic side
Expenses scandal
IRA payments (community funds)
TOTAL=
You can see where I am going with this.
I noticed in an interview with one of the DUP MLA's that he used a line "we will look after or own people in Northern Ireland" which summed it up very well for me as to how things will not change here, the UUP will be no better.
The money also wasted on rebranding a boat, renaming departments and undoing sensible things that we done by previous ministers also is lost in all this.
But sure its better than killing each other.
60,000 voters removed from the register in December 2016
Voters removed by constituency
Belfast East 2,379
Belfast North 4,463
Belfast South 3,213
Belfast West 5,759
East Antrim 2,323
East Londonderry 2,651
Fermanagh & South Tyrone 3,014
Foyle 4,912
Lagan Valley 2,554
Mid Ulster 3,145
North Antrim 2,795
North Down 2,310
Newry & Armagh 4,534
South Antrim 2,997
South Down 4,012
Strangford 2,449
Upper Bann 3,451
West Tyrone 3,472
All these are significant numbers but maybe people who don't keep themselves on the register don't vote. Could have an effect when the number of MLAs are being reduced.
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 17, 2017, 01:03:46 PM
SF running 4 candidates in FST last time out cost them a seat, if they run 3 this time out they should get them all returned.
There are 2 seats in Upper Bann for SF if they manage their vote properly.
I reckon Newry & Armagh will be 3SF, 1DUP & 1SDLP with Danny Kennedy to lose out.
Strangford will be interesting to see if Jonathan Bell damages the DUP vote.
In a Unionist dominant area like Strangford I can see the UUP take a seat off the DUP if they get their finger out.
Alliance will hold their seat but won't have enough to get two.
Quote from: johnneycool on January 17, 2017, 02:21:28 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 17, 2017, 01:03:46 PM
SF running 4 candidates in FST last time out cost them a seat, if they run 3 this time out they should get them all returned.
There are 2 seats in Upper Bann for SF if they manage their vote properly.
I reckon Newry & Armagh will be 3SF, 1DUP & 1SDLP with Danny Kennedy to lose out.
Strangford will be interesting to see if Jonathan Bell damages the DUP vote.
In a Unionist dominant area like Strangford I can see the UUP take a seat off the DUP if they get their finger out.
Alliance will hold their seat but won't have enough to get two.
Unfortunately going down to 5 seats means any outside chance of a nationalist seat here has gone. Good news though the boundary changes next time gets rid of alot of these very unionist areas same for west belfast meaning most people will get some sort of representation
Quote from: AQMP on January 17, 2017, 02:06:05 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on January 17, 2017, 02:04:17 PM
60,000 voters removed from the register in December 2016
Voters removed by constituency
Belfast East 2,379
Belfast North 4,463
Belfast South 3,213
Belfast West 5,759
East Antrim 2,323
East Londonderry 2,651
Fermanagh & South Tyrone 3,014
Foyle 4,912
Lagan Valley 2,554
Mid Ulster 3,145
North Antrim 2,795
North Down 2,310
Newry & Armagh 4,534
South Antrim 2,997
South Down 4,012
Strangford 2,449
Upper Bann 3,451
West Tyrone 3,472
All these are significant numbers but maybe people who don't keep themselves on the register don't vote. Could have an effect when the number of MLAs are being reduced.
On what basis are they removed and can you check if you're on the register??
The only way to check is to contact your local electoral office, there is no online register.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38652276 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38652276)
Quote from: AQMP on January 17, 2017, 02:32:29 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on January 17, 2017, 02:26:13 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on January 17, 2017, 02:21:28 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 17, 2017, 01:03:46 PM
SF running 4 candidates in FST last time out cost them a seat, if they run 3 this time out they should get them all returned.
There are 2 seats in Upper Bann for SF if they manage their vote properly.
I reckon Newry & Armagh will be 3SF, 1DUP & 1SDLP with Danny Kennedy to lose out.
Strangford will be interesting to see if Jonathan Bell damages the DUP vote.
In a Unionist dominant area like Strangford I can see the UUP take a seat off the DUP if they get their finger out.
Alliance will hold their seat but won't have enough to get two.
Unfortunately going down to 5 seats means any outside chance of a nationalist seat here has gone. Good news though the boundary changes next time gets rid of alot of these very unionist areas same for west belfast meaning most people will get some sort of representation
In Strangford you'd think Nesbitt, Hamilton, McIlveen and Kellie Armstrong (Alliance) will be safe enough. Will Bell run, is the big question?? If he doesn't you might see someone like Jimmy Menagh benefit.
With Sinn Feín non existent in the area means that the DUP main thrust of keeping the Shinners out mightn't have the same impact on a local level and Nesbitt needs a strong running partner to break DUP majority.
Whether Bell stands could have a bearing alright, depending on what creed of christian he is and their "fanbase" in the constituency to cause an upset outside the DUP party apparatus is another thing ala Jim Allister in NA.
Those religious types down here can be a funny crew at times.
Alliance ala Kelly Armstrong may also be in a bit of a tighter fight than she ought to be due to a local dispute wrt provision of a "cross community" full size floodlit 3G pitch which the DUP and UUP were trying to railroad into the lovely fishing village of Portavogie. The Alliance and SDLP are getting the blame for it not going ahead there as there was nothing in the application in relation to support for Gaelic games which is a requirement and the funding body pulled the plug which both are supposed to have highlighted.
Just goes to show you the f**kers seem to think they can ride roughshod over legislation at local government level as well as Stormont
Quote from: AQMP on January 17, 2017, 04:20:56 PM
People Before Profit to run a second candidate in West Belfast. Could be final nail in coffin for Alex Attwood??
If they came to my door I would hammer them on designation and brexit. Im no SF fan but these guys are a bunch of spoofers.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on January 17, 2017, 04:26:57 PM
Quote from: AQMP on January 17, 2017, 04:20:56 PM
People Before Profit to run a second candidate in West Belfast. Could be final nail in coffin for Alex Attwood??
If they came to my door I would hammer them on designation and brexit. Im no SF fan but these guys are a bunch of spoofers.
Have to say although I have a soft spot for Eamon McCann, since he got elected he has been almost anonymous
Quote from: drillsergeant on January 17, 2017, 08:28:46 AM
Well folks, drew up my prediction for March 2nd election:
Election 2017 predictions
Fermanagh South Tyrone: 2DUP 2SF 1UUP
Newry\Armagh: 2SF 1DUP 1UUP 1SDLP
W Belfast: 4SF 1PBP
S Belfast: 2DUP 1SDLP 1SF 1AP
N Belfast: 3DUP 2SF
E Belfast: 3DUP 2AP
North Down: 2DUP 1GP 1UUP 1AP
Stangford: 3DUP 1UUP 1AP
South Down: 2SDLP 2SF 1DUP
Upper Bann: 2DUP 2UUP 1SF
Lagan Valley: 3DUP 1AP 1UUP
South Antrim: 3DUP 1SF 1UUP
East Antrim: 3DUP 1UUP 1AP
North Antrim: 3DUP 1TUV 1SF
Mid Ulster: 3SF 1SDLP 1DUP
East Derry: 3DUP 1SF 1IND
Foyle: 2SDLP 2SF 1DUP
West Tyrone: 3SF 1DUP 1SDLP
DUP: 37
SF: 25
UUP: 9
SDLP: 8
AP: 7
GP: 1
TUV: 1
PBP: 1
IND: 1
Don't think the scandals will effect the DUPs performance as unionists will stick by the DUP regardless but again I could be wrong. Some seats will be very tight for the last remaining seat, transfers will be very important this time around.
Would upper bann not have a large enough nationalist population to return 2 nationalist seats?
I suppose a lot will do with transfers.
Does it matter what mix of outdated unionists or nationalists are elected? That won't be progress.New parties emphasising common Northern Irishness,not fantasists obsessed with Britain or the Free State are badly needed to effect meaningful change
What's going to happen after the election ? Nothing different. SF don't want a public inquiry into RHI (for some reason) so that won't be solved. Nobody will be held to account for it. So we will have £5m of public money spunked on a meaningless election, over a £1m on the shite you get through the door.
The key is the 50% of the electorate who don't vote,to effect change.I meanwhile will maintain my recent electoral decision making by voting for candidates,across many parties,who I know personally to be decent,committed and dedicated to working for the the whole community as opposed to tribal party representatives for the sake of it.
So you're going to vote for Nationalists and Unionists despite all your "Northern (sic) Irishness" ::)
the other parties should campaign on how piss poor the DUP are
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/nowhere-will-be-more-damaged-by-theresa-mays-brexit-plan-than-northern-ireland-says-sdlp-35374610.html
East Antrim MP Sammy Wilson said: "The Prime Minister recognises that Britain is already a strong economy which can exist beyond the borders of EU outside the single market.
The UK has a budget deficit of 6% of GDP
Quote from: T Fearon on January 17, 2017, 08:58:44 PM
The key is the 50% of the electorate who don't vote,to effect change.
THis bit is perfectly correct.
QuoteI meanwhile will maintain my recent electoral decision making by voting for candidates,across many parties,who I know personally to be decent,committed and dedicated to working for the the whole community as opposed to tribal party representatives for the sake of it.
This is all fine, except if those candidates are following a malign party line in their voting then they can do enormous damage notwithstanding their good work on the ground.
Can every one of the shinners on here tell Gerry Adams to shut the f**k up until the election is over?
Quote from: T Fearon on January 17, 2017, 08:36:15 PM
Does it matter what mix of outdated unionists or nationalists are elected? That won't be progress.New parties emphasising common Northern Irishness,not fantasists obsessed with Britain or the Free State are badly needed to effect meaningful change
Who pays for the slowly deflating Shangri La ?
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2017, 09:28:40 PM
the other parties should campaign on how piss poor the DUP are
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/nowhere-will-be-more-damaged-by-theresa-mays-brexit-plan-than-northern-ireland-says-sdlp-35374610.html
East Antrim MP Sammy Wilson said: "The Prime Minister recognises that Britain is already a strong economy which can exist beyond the borders of EU outside the single market.
The UK has a budget deficit of 6% of GDP
This from an ex Economics lecturer, it shows you how far removed the political classes especially the DUPers are from regular people on the ground.
More and more people becoming disillusioned with the whole thing and all they want is someone that is going to work to ensure jobs for people who want to work and some sort of future for the next generation. Not this repetitive bullsh*t year after year of point scoring and he said she said that just ends up wasting time and money and opportunities for a better future for everyone on the island.
Quote from: NAG1 on January 18, 2017, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2017, 09:28:40 PM
the other parties should campaign on how piss poor the DUP are
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/nowhere-will-be-more-damaged-by-theresa-mays-brexit-plan-than-northern-ireland-says-sdlp-35374610.html
East Antrim MP Sammy Wilson said: "The Prime Minister recognises that Britain is already a strong economy which can exist beyond the borders of EU outside the single market.
The UK has a budget deficit of 6% of GDP
This from an ex Economics lecturer, it shows you how far removed the political classes especially the DUPers are from regular people on the ground.
More and more people becoming disillusioned with the whole thing and all they want is someone that is going to work to ensure jobs for people who want to work and some sort of future for the next generation. Not this repetitive bullsh*t year after year of point scoring and he said she said that just ends up wasting time and money and opportunities for a better future for everyone on the island.
Sammy and Gregory Campbell have been around a long time, much longer than Mrs Foster but no chance of becoming leadership material.
What's the likelihood of the DUP coming back with a bigger share of the vote than before? Would unionist voters be thick enough to take the "he fixshed de road" approach and vote for the blatantly crooked politician? Just to piss the fenians off?
Wait to you see them bring the fear of 'themmuns getting into power if you don't vote for the strong voice of unionism'
No party does it better and that's all it takes sadly. Some folk (especially religious types) seem to lack the ability to step back and think for themselves.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 18, 2017, 05:43:59 PM
What's the likelihood of the DUP coming back with a bigger share of the vote than before? Would unionist voters be thick enough to take the "he fixshed de road" approach and vote for the blatantly crooked politician? Just to piss the fenians off?
Absolutely.
There is a 50 to 75% chance I would reckon that DUP and SF will be returned with the same if not greater share of the vote.
A lot of DUP voters don't care about anything else bar being able to walk down the road, light bonfires, fly the flag and keep the taiga in their place...........no ambition in them at all. And the DUP feck them over by getting as much money into their pockets as possible. But it has always been thus........just that they are getting caught a bit now........
As someone else somewhere said, if you put a DUP rosette on a monkey, the good loyalist people of Ulster would vote for it.
(Probably the same for Sinn Fein too?)
People before profit, irrespective of who they are or what they are, at least illustrated that some areas will vote outside tribal lines. Sadly only a nationalist are has done that thus far.
Hipefully with no unionist pacts this time alliance can steal some dup votes.
Great write up in todays Irish Times by Fintan O Toole. Well worth a read...Sorry I can't post the lead.
Basically saying that the DUP was behind a massive pro leave campaign (Brexit) and was in bed with main English nationalist parties (or in O Tooles words leading from the front) in a big promotional campaign in and around London....despite the fact that in NI the majority voted to stay in the EU.
Interesting development...wonder will NI media pick up on it now.
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 18, 2017, 08:26:01 PM
People before profit, irrespective of who they are or what they are, at least illustrated that some areas will vote outside tribal lines. Sadly only a nationalist are has done that thus far.
Hipefully with no unionist pacts this time alliance can steal some dup votes.
What about Alliance in E Belfast a few years ago when Long unseated the Punt?
Quote from: Orior on January 18, 2017, 07:41:20 PM
As someone else somewhere said, if you put a DUP rosette on a monkey, the good loyalist people of Ulster would vote for it.
(Probably the same for Sinn Fein too?)
Paul Maskey being exhibit A
Quote from: bannside on January 18, 2017, 08:27:14 PM
Great write up in todays Irish Times by Fintan O Toole. Well worth a read...Sorry I can't post the lead.
Basically saying that the DUP was behind a massive pro leave campaign (Brexit) and was in bed with main English nationalist parties (or in O Tooles words leading from the front) in a big promotional campaign in and around London....despite the fact that in NI the majority voted to stay in the EU.
Interesting development...wonder will NI media pick up on it now.
Maybe I need to read the article, but what is new about what O'Toole wrote? We all know this. And it is why Brexit needs to be the stick to beat the DUP with.
Quote from: Rois on January 18, 2017, 09:23:39 PM
Quote from: bannside on January 18, 2017, 08:27:14 PM
Great write up in todays Irish Times by Fintan O Toole. Well worth a read...Sorry I can't post the lead.
Basically saying that the DUP was behind a massive pro leave campaign (Brexit) and was in bed with main English nationalist parties (or in O Tooles words leading from the front) in a big promotional campaign in and around London....despite the fact that in NI the majority voted to stay in the EU.
Interesting development...wonder will NI media pick up on it now.
Maybe I need to read the article, but what is new about what O'Toole wrote? We all know this. And it is why Brexit needs to be the stick to beat the DUP with.
Unionist leadership has been worse than just Brexit .NI is considerably poorer than Munster . .
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Gross_domestic_product_(GDP)_per_inhabitant_in_purchasing_power_standard_(PPS)_in_relation_to_the_EU-28_average,_by_NUTS_2_regions,_2014_(%C2%B9)_(%25_of_the_EU-28_average,_EU-28_%3D_100)_RYB2016.png
NI pissed away a sizeable advantage held in 1922 . Linen and shipbuilding went and bigotry delivered a paramilitary war and a brain drain. More of the same small minded shite will see Munster pulling away further . And Munster is mostly Taigs...
Quote from: bannside on January 18, 2017, 08:27:14 PM
Great write up in todays Irish Times by Fintan O Toole. Well worth a read...Sorry I can't post the lead.
Basically saying that the DUP was behind a massive pro leave campaign (Brexit) and was in bed with main English nationalist parties (or in O Tooles words leading from the front) in a big promotional campaign in and around London....despite the fact that in NI the majority voted to stay in the EU.
Interesting development...wonder will NI media pick up on it now.
Saw that, it's a good piece. So much for the "our duty to the greater number" mantra that we used to hear from unionists. The days could soon be over when we get sanctimonious Billys and Sammys ringing up Talkback to lecture the taigs about how we have to "respect the verdict of the ballot box" and "what the majority says goes." They'd be quick to tell you that the Brexit vote counts because it was UK-wide, but I doubt if they'd be as hot about any NI border poll that were put to the UK voters at large.
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2017, 09:31:24 PM
Unionist leadership has been worse than just Brexit .NI is considerably poorer than Munster . .
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Gross_domestic_product_(GDP)_per_inhabitant_in_purchasing_power_standard_(PPS)_in_relation_to_the_EU-28_average,_by_NUTS_2_regions,_2014_(%C2%B9)_(%25_of_the_EU-28_average,_EU-28_%3D_100)_RYB2016.png
NI pissed away a sizeable advantage held in 1922 . Linen and shipbuilding went and bigotry delivered a paramilitary war and a brain drain. More of the same small minded shite will see Munster pulling away further . And Munster is mostly Taigs...
You over-estimate the Northern electorate if you think that type of sensible real historical analysis would be considered at the ballot box.
Quote from: Minder on January 18, 2017, 08:40:28 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 18, 2017, 07:41:20 PM
As someone else somewhere said, if you put a DUP rosette on a monkey, the good loyalist people of Ulster would vote for it.
(Probably the same for Sinn Fein too?)
Paul Maskey being exhibit A
It could be a long list.
Never thought I'd never consider this but unless I hear someone campaign on non-sectarian grounds or refer to issues that really matter then I'll be driving past that polling station.
I hope there's a 20% turn out. A strong message needs to be sent out but I expect the DUP to hold and maybe even strengthen their vote. Yeeeoooooooo etc. This place is a dungheap.
Might vote for yer blade Dobson. She's deadly.
Quote from: Rois on January 18, 2017, 10:19:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2017, 09:31:24 PM
Unionist leadership has been worse than just Brexit .NI is considerably poorer than Munster . .
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Gross_domestic_product_(GDP)_per_inhabitant_in_purchasing_power_standard_(PPS)_in_relation_to_the_EU-28_average,_by_NUTS_2_regions,_2014_(%C2%B9)_(%25_of_the_EU-28_average,_EU-28_%3D_100)_RYB2016.png
NI pissed away a sizeable advantage held in 1922 . Linen and shipbuilding went and bigotry delivered a paramilitary war and a brain drain. More of the same small minded shite will see Munster pulling away further . And Munster is mostly Taigs...
You over-estimate the Northern electorate if you think that type of sensible real historical analysis would be considered at the ballot box.
It never is. That is why systems collapse. NI is a political failure. It used to have a Prime Minister. Now it has a First Minister. But the economic failure is worse.
Quote from: Rois on January 18, 2017, 09:23:39 PM
Quote from: bannside on January 18, 2017, 08:27:14 PM
Great write up in todays Irish Times by Fintan O Toole. Well worth a read...Sorry I can't post the lead.
Basically saying that the DUP was behind a massive pro leave campaign (Brexit) and was in bed with main English nationalist parties (or in O Tooles words leading from the front) in a big promotional campaign in and around London....despite the fact that in NI the majority voted to stay in the EU.
Interesting development...wonder will NI media pick up on it now.
Maybe I need to read the article, but what is new about what O'Toole wrote? We all know this. And it is why Brexit needs to be the stick to beat the DUP with.
Nothing new in it, all has been all over the public domain previously.
That's the point he makes, that Brexit should be used to go after the DUP. Unfortunately, most DUP supporters were probably Brexiteers also. Its not like the UUP were strong remainers either - it took them a long time to make up its mind, and in the end it said its members should vote any way they want, albeit it encouraged stay. Now that that vote is over, I can't see that many DUP supporters, even those who supported Remain, will vote any differently in these elections because of it - that horse has bolted.
Fintan appears to be have forgotten that the DUP don't have a semblance of interest in representing anyone but themselves, and make no bones about it - that they went against the majority they purport to represent won't embarrass them in the slightest.
The DUP could replace all their candidates in the forthcoming election with real monkeys and their loyal supporters would vote for them regardless. Bottom line above anything else is keeping themuns out at any cost and by any means. Everything else, Brext, NAMA, Red Sky, RHI etc pales into insignificance when they are standing at the polling booth. They just can't bring themselves to put their mark anywhere else.
Foster's attitude to brexit was also extremely arrogant. She should have been pushing for what it meant for ni etc but she didn't care no matter what the vote.
Does the Tele even pretend not to have an agenda any more? Its (lack of) coverage of the RHI is beyond a joke. Such a rag, and its disintegration into such has been at a serious rate. Well done Gail...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38674046
While the RHI scandal rumbles on, the Belfast Telegraph front page instead focuses on the spate of paramilitary-style shootings in west Belfast.
It says three of the five people shot in the last month have, beforehand, been named on a Facebook page along with allegations of crimes they have been involved in. Updates on when they have been shot are also said to be posted on the page.
Both The Irish News and the News Letter lead with the latest development in the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) scheme - claims that a former special adviser to Arlene Foster had acted to delay the closure of the botched scheme.
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 19, 2017, 08:53:03 AM
The DUP could replace all their candidates in the forthcoming election with real monkeys and their loyal supporters would vote for them regardless. Bottom line above anything else is keeping themuns out at any cost and by any means. Everything else, Brext, NAMA, Red Sky, RHI etc pales into insignificance when they are standing at the polling booth. They just can't bring themselves to put their mark anywhere else.
That is why people not voting/spoiling their vote is counter productive. People need to get out and vote to ensure DUP don't come back anywhere near the number of seat that they have.
Quote from: ONeill on January 19, 2017, 12:33:06 AM
Never thought I'd never consider this but unless I hear someone campaign on non-sectarian grounds or refer to issues that really matter then I'll be driving past that polling station.
I hope there's a 20% turn out. A strong message needs to be sent out but I expect the DUP to hold and maybe even strengthen their vote. Yeeeoooooooo etc. This place is a dungheap.
Might vote for yer blade Dobson. She's deadly.
She looks very like Alison Morris I always think.
I'd say you're better turning up and spoiling your vote that not voting, that's what I'm considering atm, at least it registers your apathy to the options rather than being lumped as couldn't be arsed.
What does spoiling achieve? No matter which politician gets in they will claim a mandate and that they represent you even if you do vote/spoil your vote.
Quote from: DickyRock on January 19, 2017, 10:06:20 AM
What does spoiling achieve? No matter which politician gets in they will claim a mandate and that they represent you even if you do vote/spoil your vote.
Instead whoever you do vote for can honestly say they represent you and I've never liked the idea of voting for someone you disagree with to keep someone else you disagree with out.
I spoiled my vote at the last elections but wont be doing it this time. I can't bear to watch the arrogance of the DUP any longer. There'll be a number in every box bar the DUP's this time.
Anyone spoiling their vote are only supporting DUP SF as both have a fairly hard core of voters who will not consider the candidate and vote the party line. Until those who left the process rejoin these cores will determine the government for us all and will continue to be able to threaten democracy every time they don't get their own way by preventing government from being established.
The RHI scandal is beginning to show that the SPADs are the route by which each party rules within government with no accountability as either politicians or civil servants. They have the authority of the minister in all of their actions and there will be a hierarchy of SPADs on both sides.
I seen on Facebook. Alex Maskey advising people to 'fight back' against the DUP by voting for SF. That makes no sense to me because it's a power sharing executive. SF's political opponent is the SDLP and PBP. In order to get the DUP out we'd have to boost the UUP, Alliance or in some cases Green Party vote.
I've never put a number beside a unionist before but I'm seriously considering this time if I think there's a chance of it stopping the DUP getting in.
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2017, 10:38:36 AM
I spoiled my vote at the last elections but wont be doing it this time. I can't bear to watch the arrogance of the DUP any longer. There'll be a number in every box bar the DUP's this time.
That's the way to use PR.
Spoiled votes don't get counted and nobody gives 2 Fs about them.
As for not voting. ....if only 20% vote it's still a valid election and those 20% make the decision for everyone.
the DUP would absolutely love you to spoil your vote - the only way you can hold them accountable is by voting for others.
Saying they are all as bad as each other in so many words is really irrelevant as an argument to spoil a vote. If, by wielding your vote, one crowd of incompetents is displaced by another, at least you would have contributed to a principle of electoral accountability and send a message that absolutely staggering RHI level incompetence will not be tolerated.
In all honesty, I would view a spoiled vote as effectively a small scale endorsement of the DUP, as its only practical effect would be to contribute to a preservation of the status quo.
Quote from: whiskeysteve on January 19, 2017, 11:21:38 AM
the DUP would absolutely love you to spoil your vote - the only way you can hold them accountable is by voting for others.
Saying they are all as bad as each other in so many words is really irrelevant as an argument to spoil a vote. If, by wielding your vote, one crowd of incompetents is displaced by another, at least you would have contributed to a principle of electoral accountability and send a message that absolutely staggering RHI level incompetence will not be tolerated.
In all honesty, I would view a spoiled vote as effectively a small scale endorsement of the DUP, as its only practical effect would be to contribute to a preservation of the status quo.
Exactly, PR needs to be used intelligently to halt DUP. SF core will always plump for their own they need only a very small percentage of the electorate to maintain their seats proportionately in a 90 seat assembly. Others should consider how best to use they votes to remove the DUP with votes for any other party that is just struggling to get that last seat.
Quote from: whiskeysteve on January 19, 2017, 11:21:38 AM
the DUP would absolutely love you to spoil your vote - the only way you can hold them accountable is by voting for others.
Saying they are all as bad as each other in so many words is really irrelevant as an argument to spoil a vote. If, by wielding your vote, one crowd of incompetents is displaced by another, at least you would have contributed to a principle of electoral accountability and send a message that absolutely staggering RHI level incompetence will not be tolerated.
In all honesty, I would view a spoiled vote as effectively a small scale endorsement of the DUP, as its only practical effect would be to contribute to a preservation of the status quo.
Not agreeing with a party is the only reason not to vote for them. Its not a case of they are as bad as each other rather I have different issues with different parties which make them objectionable to me.
Voting for the Shinners or SDLP won't make any difference to the DUP, because we live in a divided society its up to the electoral Unionists community to show their disgust to the DUP, they don't expect, court nor really care about my vote.
I guess the question is what do you consider the status quo to actually be in the North, is it the DUP/SF executive or is it Stormont itself.
You are not maximising your PR if you don't give preferences to the least objectionable others.
If for example all the Nationalist candidates are elected or eliminated then your vote is dead if you haven't continued to eg Greens, Alliance and then to the Unionists you prefer.
It's all about PREFERENCES.
Quote from: Rossfan on January 19, 2017, 12:14:31 PM
You are not maximising your PR if you don't give preferences to the least objectionable others.
If for example all the Nationalist candidates are elected or eliminated then your vote is dead if you haven't continued to eg Greens, Alliance and then to the Unionists you prefer.
It's all about PREFERENCES.
You should give lectures on PR, what would the poor northern nationalists do without you, I am sure your insight with help topple the DUP and get a united Ireland!
I asked a few prods i work with last week would the scandals over the last while back have any influence on how you'd vote and instantly all 3 of them without hesitation said "no", they stated they will still vote DUP and that's the scary thing as this circus seems to be still capable of emerging just as it was...How do we stop this? How can we stop DUP? I don't believe we can and the majority of protestant people are still that brainwashed they'll still vote for them...
As someone stated it's really up to the Mike Nesbitt brigade and Alliance to hurt the DUP...I've been a Sinn Fein voter my whole life but i'm so disillusioned with it all i couldn't care less if they all disappeared...
Now is not the time to give up. Loads of change is coming and the DUP is not ready for it.
Quote from: whiskeysteve on January 19, 2017, 11:21:38 AM
the DUP would absolutely love you to spoil your vote - the only way you can hold them accountable is by voting for others.
Saying they are all as bad as each other in so many words is really irrelevant as an argument to spoil a vote. If, by wielding your vote, one crowd of incompetents is displaced by another, at least you would have contributed to a principle of electoral accountability and send a message that absolutely staggering RHI level incompetence will not be tolerated.
In all honesty, I would view a spoiled vote as effectively a small scale endorsement of the DUP, as its only practical effect would be to contribute to a preservation of the status quo.
The reason I spoiled my vote was because I didn't want to vote for anyone. It's essentially saying 'I want to exercise my right to vote, but I deem none of the candidates competent enough to vote for'. Arguing that it has no practical significance only applies if only small numbers of people do it. It's the same as saying 'there's no point in voting UUP in east derry, or the green party pretty much anywhere. If significant numbers of people spoiled their vote, instead of just not voting it would send the relevant message.
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2017, 01:40:28 PM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on January 19, 2017, 11:21:38 AM
the DUP would absolutely love you to spoil your vote - the only way you can hold them accountable is by voting for others.
Saying they are all as bad as each other in so many words is really irrelevant as an argument to spoil a vote. If, by wielding your vote, one crowd of incompetents is displaced by another, at least you would have contributed to a principle of electoral accountability and send a message that absolutely staggering RHI level incompetence will not be tolerated.
In all honesty, I would view a spoiled vote as effectively a small scale endorsement of the DUP, as its only practical effect would be to contribute to a preservation of the status quo.
The reason I spoiled my vote was because I didn't want to vote for anyone. It's essentially saying 'I want to exercise my right to vote, but I deem none of the candidates competent enough to vote for'. Arguing that it has no practical significance only applies if only small numbers of people do it. It's the same as saying 'there's no point in voting UUP in east derry, or the green party pretty much anywhere. If significant numbers of people spoiled their vote, instead of just not voting it would send the relevant message.
One thing we have learned is that no one is listening or wants to listen to the vast majority of ordinary people.
Even with 90 MLAs, relatively small numbers of votes for an individual candidate do count. The quota for most seats will be between 7000 and 8000 votes so that will be the target for any candidate to be elected without transfers. These are not big numbers, only a 6th of those who vote and if the turnout is as much as 50% then only 8.3% of the total electorate in a constituency. So, the answer is to vote and to get as many of your non-voting mates to do the same if you want change. To affect the DUP, hold your nose and vote for any of the opposition parties.
Quote from: AQMP on January 19, 2017, 01:27:30 PM
Word of advice for SF...keep Declan Kearney off the airwaves!!
Ya. Give Aonghus O Snodaigh a chance to practice his English
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2017, 01:40:28 PM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on January 19, 2017, 11:21:38 AM
the DUP would absolutely love you to spoil your vote - the only way you can hold them accountable is by voting for others.
Saying they are all as bad as each other in so many words is really irrelevant as an argument to spoil a vote. If, by wielding your vote, one crowd of incompetents is displaced by another, at least you would have contributed to a principle of electoral accountability and send a message that absolutely staggering RHI level incompetence will not be tolerated.
In all honesty, I would view a spoiled vote as effectively a small scale endorsement of the DUP, as its only practical effect would be to contribute to a preservation of the status quo.
The reason I spoiled my vote was because I didn't want to vote for anyone. It's essentially saying 'I want to exercise my right to vote, but I deem none of the candidates competent enough to vote for'. Arguing that it has no practical significance only applies if only small numbers of people do it. It's the same as saying 'there's no point in voting UUP in east derry, or the green party pretty much anywhere. If significant numbers of people spoiled their vote, instead of just not voting it would send the relevant message.
If you feel there are significant amounts of people with similar views to yourself, why don't you run?
Quote from: haranguerer on January 19, 2017, 02:13:24 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2017, 01:40:28 PM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on January 19, 2017, 11:21:38 AM
the DUP would absolutely love you to spoil your vote - the only way you can hold them accountable is by voting for others.
Saying they are all as bad as each other in so many words is really irrelevant as an argument to spoil a vote. If, by wielding your vote, one crowd of incompetents is displaced by another, at least you would have contributed to a principle of electoral accountability and send a message that absolutely staggering RHI level incompetence will not be tolerated.
In all honesty, I would view a spoiled vote as effectively a small scale endorsement of the DUP, as its only practical effect would be to contribute to a preservation of the status quo.
The reason I spoiled my vote was because I didn't want to vote for anyone. It's essentially saying 'I want to exercise my right to vote, but I deem none of the candidates competent enough to vote for'. Arguing that it has no practical significance only applies if only small numbers of people do it. It's the same as saying 'there's no point in voting UUP in east derry, or the green party pretty much anywhere. If significant numbers of people spoiled their vote, instead of just not voting it would send the relevant message.
If you feel there are significant amounts of people with similar views to yourself, why don't you run?
This can't be a serious question.
Quote from: Take Your Points on January 19, 2017, 01:53:04 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2017, 01:40:28 PM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on January 19, 2017, 11:21:38 AM
the DUP would absolutely love you to spoil your vote - the only way you can hold them accountable is by voting for others.
Saying they are all as bad as each other in so many words is really irrelevant as an argument to spoil a vote. If, by wielding your vote, one crowd of incompetents is displaced by another, at least you would have contributed to a principle of electoral accountability and send a message that absolutely staggering RHI level incompetence will not be tolerated.
In all honesty, I would view a spoiled vote as effectively a small scale endorsement of the DUP, as its only practical effect would be to contribute to a preservation of the status quo.
The reason I spoiled my vote was because I didn't want to vote for anyone. It's essentially saying 'I want to exercise my right to vote, but I deem none of the candidates competent enough to vote for'. Arguing that it has no practical significance only applies if only small numbers of people do it. It's the same as saying 'there's no point in voting UUP in east derry, or the green party pretty much anywhere. If significant numbers of people spoiled their vote, instead of just not voting it would send the relevant message.
One thing we have learned is that no one is listening or wants to listen to the vast majority of ordinary people.
Even with 90 MLAs, relatively small numbers of votes for an individual candidate do count. The quota for most seats will be between 7000 and 8000 votes so that will be the target for any candidate to be elected without transfers. These are not big numbers, only a 6th of those who vote and if the turnout is as much as 50% then only 8.3% of the total electorate in a constituency. So, the answer is to vote and to get as many of your non-voting mates to do the same if you want change. To affect the DUP, hold your nose and vote for any of the opposition parties.
Yes, yet plenty of the parties don't reach this 'small' number in many constituencies. Like I say, voting for anyone is pointless, unless plenty of others do the same.
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2017, 02:17:49 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on January 19, 2017, 02:13:24 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2017, 01:40:28 PM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on January 19, 2017, 11:21:38 AM
the DUP would absolutely love you to spoil your vote - the only way you can hold them accountable is by voting for others.
Saying they are all as bad as each other in so many words is really irrelevant as an argument to spoil a vote. If, by wielding your vote, one crowd of incompetents is displaced by another, at least you would have contributed to a principle of electoral accountability and send a message that absolutely staggering RHI level incompetence will not be tolerated.
In all honesty, I would view a spoiled vote as effectively a small scale endorsement of the DUP, as its only practical effect would be to contribute to a preservation of the status quo.
The reason I spoiled my vote was because I didn't want to vote for anyone. It's essentially saying 'I want to exercise my right to vote, but I deem none of the candidates competent enough to vote for'. Arguing that it has no practical significance only applies if only small numbers of people do it. It's the same as saying 'there's no point in voting UUP in east derry, or the green party pretty much anywhere. If significant numbers of people spoiled their vote, instead of just not voting it would send the relevant message.
If you feel there are significant amounts of people with similar views to yourself, why don't you run?
This can't be a serious question.
You're advocating spoiling your vote, and have this notion that if enough people do it, then things will change. Leaving aside how likely the first part is, how would things change? Assuming you believe in democracy, then the only way it could change anything is by encouraging other people to run. So, rather than waste all the time attempting to start a vote spoiling movement, why not just save a lot of time by running yourself, now?
Quote from: haranguerer on January 19, 2017, 02:32:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2017, 02:17:49 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on January 19, 2017, 02:13:24 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2017, 01:40:28 PM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on January 19, 2017, 11:21:38 AM
the DUP would absolutely love you to spoil your vote - the only way you can hold them accountable is by voting for others.
Saying they are all as bad as each other in so many words is really irrelevant as an argument to spoil a vote. If, by wielding your vote, one crowd of incompetents is displaced by another, at least you would have contributed to a principle of electoral accountability and send a message that absolutely staggering RHI level incompetence will not be tolerated.
In all honesty, I would view a spoiled vote as effectively a small scale endorsement of the DUP, as its only practical effect would be to contribute to a preservation of the status quo.
The reason I spoiled my vote was because I didn't want to vote for anyone. It's essentially saying 'I want to exercise my right to vote, but I deem none of the candidates competent enough to vote for'. Arguing that it has no practical significance only applies if only small numbers of people do it. It's the same as saying 'there's no point in voting UUP in east derry, or the green party pretty much anywhere. If significant numbers of people spoiled their vote, instead of just not voting it would send the relevant message.
If you feel there are significant amounts of people with similar views to yourself, why don't you run?
This can't be a serious question.
You're advocating spoiling your vote, and have this notion that if enough people do it, then things will change. Leaving aside how likely the first part is, how would things change? Assuming you believe in democracy, then the only way it could change anything is by encouraging other people to run. So, rather than waste all the time attempting to start a vote spoiling movement, why not just save a lot of time by running yourself, now?
Starting a movement!! Catch yerself on lad. And let's say I am trying to do that. (ffs ::)). I've currently wasted about 5mins on it, by writing a post on the GAA board. Thanks for the concern for my time though. Straw man much?
Anyway, if enough people did it, it would be a ringing endorsement of what we are all saying here on a daily basis. That the shower on the hill are f**king useless and there's none of them worth voting for. But it's also saying that you feel that your vote is worth casting. In reality, it was just a symbolic gesture. But I suppose if a significant portion of the electorate did that, instead of just lying on their ass at home, I reckon something would happen. Either way, it's really nothing for you to be getting your knickers in a knot about.
How does PR work in the north? In the elections down here, I believe that the only way you are guaranteed that your transfers are even used, is if you vote #1 for a candidate who will be eliminated. All votes of eliminated candidates are redistributed, but only a sample up to the surplus amount are redistributed for elected candidates.
If I vote monster raving looney party #1 and say Fine Gael #2, then it's very likely my #2 will come into play as all the looney votes will be distributed as they are eliminated.
If I vote the other way around, then it's unlikely my #2 will be counted as either a) the looney will be eliminated, or b) Fine Gael will be elected, and only their surplus is distributed, which is a random set of ballots that total the amount. If the quota is 8,000 and the candidate gets 8,100, then only 100 will be distributed. And that 100 can be any bundle of 100.
It would be so much better if ALL votes were counted, with a weighting given to the various preferences.
Count the #1s first, and give everyone say 5 points if it's a 5 seater, for every #1 they get. Eliminate nobody, and then count the #2s, #3s. #4s. #5s. 4 points for a #2, 3 points for a #3, etc etc. Then the 5 candidates with the most points get elected at the end.
Apologies, ignore that last post. Complete rubbish. The surplus is distributed by counting ALL the elected candidates votes, and allocating a percentage of transfers to the other candidates. Then the Surplus is divided out in that ratio, so your vote counts.
Candidate gets 8,100. All his votes are examined, and if my looney guy gets 8 percent of the #2s of the 8,100 ballots, he gets 8% of the surplus, i.e. 8 votes.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 19, 2017, 03:33:15 PM
but only a sample up to the surplus amount are redistributed for elected candidates.
I wasn't aware until recently that all ballots weren't counted when transferring.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counting_single_transferable_votes#Hare
I assumed that all ballots were counted and and transferred at a fraction of a vote (which is used in the Senate elections with the much smaller number of votes) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counting_single_transferable_votes#Gregory
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 19, 2017, 03:36:48 PM
Apologies, ignore that last post. Complete rubbish.
Your post does match what wiki says ie a sample is used. see the links in my previous post.
Working out a percentage only happens if someone exceeds quota on first count.
I believe it's done in all cases in the North.
Here if you exceed the quota on say 3rd count they simply take the surplus straight from the top of your pile of votes , in other words from the transfers you got from others.
That's why people look for recounts where there's a close call in the hope a different set of papers will change things.
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2017, 03:12:02 PM
Starting a movement!! Catch yerself on lad. And let's say I am trying to do that. (ffs ::)). I've currently wasted about 5mins on it, by writing a post on the GAA board. Thanks for the concern for my time though. Straw man much?
Anyway, if enough people did it, it would be a ringing endorsement of what we are all saying here on a daily basis. That the shower on the hill are f**king useless and there's none of them worth voting for. But it's also saying that you feel that your vote is worth casting. In reality, it was just a symbolic gesture. But I suppose if a significant portion of the electorate did that, instead of just lying on their ass at home, I reckon something would happen. Either way, it's really nothing for you to be getting your knickers in a knot about.
I'm not getting my knickers in a twist at all, it would seem to be you getting a little agitated. All I'm trying to ascertain is what you think the 'something' would be that would happen, i.e. what good you think spoiling your vote does or would do?
Its perfectly reasonable to suggest that if you think there are only useless people 'up on the hill', and you think sufficient people share your view, that you consider running yourself (assuming of course, that you don't consider yourself useless)
Quote from: haranguerer on January 19, 2017, 03:46:46 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2017, 03:12:02 PM
Starting a movement!! Catch yerself on lad. And let's say I am trying to do that. (ffs ::)). I've currently wasted about 5mins on it, by writing a post on the GAA board. Thanks for the concern for my time though. Straw man much?
Anyway, if enough people did it, it would be a ringing endorsement of what we are all saying here on a daily basis. That the shower on the hill are f**king useless and there's none of them worth voting for. But it's also saying that you feel that your vote is worth casting. In reality, it was just a symbolic gesture. But I suppose if a significant portion of the electorate did that, instead of just lying on their ass at home, I reckon something would happen. Either way, it's really nothing for you to be getting your knickers in a knot about.
I'm not getting my knickers in a twist at all, it would seem to be you getting a little agitated. All I'm trying to ascertain is what you think the 'something' would be that would happen, i.e. what good you think spoiling your vote does or would do?
Its perfectly reasonable to suggest that if you think there are only useless people 'up on the hill', and you think sufficient people share your view, that you consider running yourself (assuming of course, that you don't consider yourself useless)
As I said before, it would send a message that the people deem their vote important enough to cast, but that they don't deem any of the candidates worthy of voting for. I don't know what the practical consequences of this would be, but if 30-40% of the electorate did this, instead of just sitting at home, it would certainly reasonate with our politcos. (if nothing else, Nolan would make hay with it!).
As for the bit in bold. That is ONLY 'perfectly reasonable' in a world where they are the only two things that a person would consider when determining whether or not to jack it all in and go for a career in politics. Now I'm not sure what kind of parallel universe you are inhabiting but I know I'd have a few other things to think about first. ::)
Even if 70% spoiled their vote 90 MLAs will still be elected.
And they will get paid and their hangers on will get paid.
That would outweigh any other message ;)
Quote from: Rossfan on January 19, 2017, 04:23:22 PM
Even if 70% spoiled their vote 90 MLAs will still be elected.
And they will get paid and their hangers on will get paid.
That would outweigh any other message ;)
What would your advice be to someone like myself who didn't deem any candidates worth voting for? (and who doesn't have time to start a new political party, for haranguerer). Sit at home? Emigrate? Just stick the numbers in random boxes and see what happens? Spoiling my vote seemed to be the most logical way for me to register my contempt for the whole she-bang.
Quote from: AQMP on January 19, 2017, 04:35:56 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2017, 04:34:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 19, 2017, 04:23:22 PM
Even if 70% spoiled their vote 90 MLAs will still be elected.
And they will get paid and their hangers on will get paid.
That would outweigh any other message ;)
What would your advice be to someone like myself who didn't deem any candidates worth voting for? (and who doesn't have time to start a new political party, for haranguerer). Sit at home? Emigrate? Just stick the numbers in random boxes and see what happens? Spoiling my vote seemed to be the most logical way for me to register my contempt for the whole she-bang.
In that case just vote for the Taigs then! ;)
I think that's what most seem to do!
Quote from: dec on January 19, 2017, 03:39:37 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 19, 2017, 03:33:15 PM
but only a sample up to the surplus amount are redistributed for elected candidates.
I wasn't aware until recently that all ballots weren't counted when transferring.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counting_single_transferable_votes#Hare
I assumed that all ballots were counted and and transferred at a fraction of a vote (which is used in the Senate elections with the much smaller number of votes) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counting_single_transferable_votes#Gregory
Depends on the transfer system being used. NI uses the Gregory system which weights the overage as per AZ's second post. The Republic does not, apart from the Senate elections.
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2017, 04:34:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 19, 2017, 04:23:22 PM
Even if 70% spoiled their vote 90 MLAs will still be elected.
And they will get paid and their hangers on will get paid.
That would outweigh any other message ;)
What would your advice be to someone like myself who didn't deem any candidates worth voting for? (and who doesn't have time to start a new political party, for haranguerer). Sit at home? Emigrate? Just stick the numbers in random boxes and see what happens? Spoiling my vote seemed to be the most logical way for me to register my contempt for the whole she-bang.
Genuine question, did you check out each candidate (say including Green Party or Independents) and what they stood for or just not like the candidates from the main couple of parties?
With the power-sharing arrangement (or "mandatory coalition," as opponents of power-sharing call it) you know there's going to be unionists in the executive. There has to be because that's how it's set up. So as a fenian you might as well have a say in which unionists you want your boys to be dealing with. Might as well give a lok of transfers to the moderate unionists and give them a hand. Would it make much of a difference if enough nationalists did this?
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2017, 04:08:33 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on January 19, 2017, 03:46:46 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2017, 03:12:02 PM
Starting a movement!! Catch yerself on lad. And let's say I am trying to do that. (ffs ::)). I've currently wasted about 5mins on it, by writing a post on the GAA board. Thanks for the concern for my time though. Straw man much?
Anyway, if enough people did it, it would be a ringing endorsement of what we are all saying here on a daily basis. That the shower on the hill are f**king useless and there's none of them worth voting for. But it's also saying that you feel that your vote is worth casting. In reality, it was just a symbolic gesture. But I suppose if a significant portion of the electorate did that, instead of just lying on their ass at home, I reckon something would happen. Either way, it's really nothing for you to be getting your knickers in a knot about.
I'm not getting my knickers in a twist at all, it would seem to be you getting a little agitated. All I'm trying to ascertain is what you think the 'something' would be that would happen, i.e. what good you think spoiling your vote does or would do?
Its perfectly reasonable to suggest that if you think there are only useless people 'up on the hill', and you think sufficient people share your view, that you consider running yourself (assuming of course, that you don't consider yourself useless)
As I said before, it would send a message that the people deem their vote important enough to cast, but that they don't deem any of the candidates worthy of voting for. I don't know what the practical consequences of this would be, but if 30-40% of the electorate did this, instead of just sitting at home, it would certainly reasonate with our politcos. (if nothing else, Nolan would make hay with it!).
As for the bit in bold. That is ONLY 'perfectly reasonable' in a world where they are the only two things that a person would consider when determining whether or not to jack it all in and go for a career in politics. Now I'm not sure what kind of parallel universe you are inhabiting but I know I'd have a few other things to think about first. ::)
Completely agree with Franko on this. Turnout is mentioned briefly in any election but the reasons for it aren't discussed to any huge extent. If say 25-30% of votes were spoiled, that would send a clear message that more people are represented by none of the parties than any other single party. That in itself would prompt a discussion as to what would represent these people - either through new parties or existing parties.
The whole 'they're all the same' argument does my head in - mainly because it lets those who really are shocking, off the hook (and also because its bullshit).
As Oakleaf lad asks - have you really looked at all the candidates Franko? Spoiling your vote is a complete waste of time. You my not find a perfect fit, but I think you're likely to find someone you could vote for. And if enough people were to do that, then there would be an effect - policies will move in that direction, and over time, you may find the ground has moved so much that there is someone who (almost) perfectly represents you.
Ok for the slow it doesnt matter if only 10% vote, that 10% will have a say for ALL OF US. You can spoil your vote if you want but what the f#ck will that achieve. DUP dont care that SF have 28 seats in the assembly they still treat them like a doormat and use them well when they need to so they seriously wont care if there are a few thousand spoilt votes now get real. Ps spoilt vote in STV is common enough as some people STILL after years of going to polling stations put an x by the candiadte in an STV election. Now if you want to use your vote like an adult then pick the candidate that most suits you even if thats not alot and rank the rest in order after that. Its not difficult
Quote from: oakleaflad on January 19, 2017, 10:06:46 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2017, 04:34:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 19, 2017, 04:23:22 PM
Even if 70% spoiled their vote 90 MLAs will still be elected.
And they will get paid and their hangers on will get paid.
That would outweigh any other message ;)
What would your advice be to someone like myself who didn't deem any candidates worth voting for? (and who doesn't have time to start a new political party, for haranguerer). Sit at home? Emigrate? Just stick the numbers in random boxes and see what happens? Spoiling my vote seemed to be the most logical way for me to register my contempt for the whole she-bang.
Genuine question, did you check out each candidate (say including Green Party or Independents) and what they stood for or just not like the candidates from the main couple of parties?
Not as such, but here's how it worked out. I had an issue with access to business premises that myself and others approached SF, SDLP and Alliance about and got nowhere. After that, I ruled out voting for any of their candidates. It ended up getting sorted through another agent, by a local UUP councillor. I'm not ever going to vote unionist (you can shout about sectarian headcounts all you want, but that's just an immutable fact). I wouldn't vote for the Green Party as they seem to stand resolutely in the face of any and all development/progress. There was one other candidate from another party, who I know personally to be a total bollix so he was also out. And hey presto, we are left with nobody.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on January 20, 2017, 10:24:28 AM
Ok for the slow it doesnt matter if only 10% vote, that 10% will have a say for ALL OF US. You can spoil your vote if you want but what the f#ck will that achieve. DUP dont care that SF have 28 seats in the assembly they still treat them like a doormat and use them well when they need to so they seriously wont care if there are a few thousand spoilt votes now get real. Ps spoilt vote in STV is common enough as some people STILL after years of going to polling stations put an x by the candiadte in an STV election. Now if you want to use your vote like an adult then pick the candidate that most suits you even if thats not alot and rank the rest in order after that. Its not difficult
Very good. I still choose my option, for the reasons both myself and macdanger have outlined.
Quote from: haranguerer on January 20, 2017, 09:50:07 AM
The whole 'they're all the same' argument does my head in - mainly because it lets those who really are shocking, off the hook (and also because its bullshit).
As Oakleaf lad asks - have you really looked at all the candidates Franko? Spoiling your vote is a complete waste of time. You my not find a perfect fit, but I think you're likely to find someone you could vote for. And if enough people were to do that, then there would be an effect - policies will move in that direction, and over time, you may find the ground has moved so much that there is someone who (almost) perfectly represents you.
So is voting for anyone, unless a quantity of others also do it. Is a vote for the Workers Party a complete waste of time? What about voting for a unionist candidate in West Belfast?
You're going round in circles. Lets compare like with like - you being the only person to spoil your vote, won't make much difference, as will you being the only person to change your vote to vote for say, a unionist in W Belfast. But if a lot of people start spoiling their vote, nothing changes. However, if a lot of people start voting for a unionist in W Belfast, then something changes.
By the way, ruling out many of your local representatives on the basis that they weren't able to sort an issue for you personally seems a tad petty. And if that is how you judge your representatives, then why aren't you voting for the one that did sort it?? Which is more important, their constitutional position, or their actions on your behalf? You seem very mixed up about this.
Quote from: haranguerer on January 20, 2017, 11:44:22 AM
You're going round in circles. Lets compare like with like - you being the only person to spoil your vote, won't make much difference, as will you being the only person to change your vote to vote for say, a unionist in W Belfast. But if a lot of people start spoiling their vote, nothing changes. However, if a lot of people start voting for a unionist in W Belfast, then something changes.
By the way, ruling out many of your local representatives on the basis that they weren't able to sort an issue for you personally seems a tad petty. And if that is how you judge your representatives, then why aren't you voting for the one that did sort it?? Which is more important, their constitutional position, or their actions on your behalf? You seem very mixed up about this.
The bit in bold is your opinion and totally subjective. I believe if a sizeable portion of the electorate spoiled their vote, something would change. Not necessarily the people, but maybe their attitudes. The thing about your point is that it's every bit as likely that a group of people would spoil their vote as it is that a similarly sized group would vote for a DUP candidate in West Belfast. So if one is a waste of time, so is the other. It's a zero sum game - either both are a waste of time, or none are. I say none.
And I'm not mixed up in any way, I couldn't be clearer. The people in the 3 parties I mentioned didn't want to know about the issue I had so I ruled out giving them my vote. I don't see this as petty at all. This sort of thing is what we pay elected representatives for and if they don't act on a request or show an interest in these issues then I won't vote for them. And I'll state this again. I didn't vote for a unionist candidate because the constitutional question is quite important to me. I won't vote for someone whose views are completely opposed to mine on this. What's difficult to understand or unclear about this?
Quote from: Franko on January 20, 2017, 02:06:03 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on January 20, 2017, 11:44:22 AM
You're going round in circles. Lets compare like with like - you being the only person to spoil your vote, won't make much difference, as will you being the only person to change your vote to vote for say, a unionist in W Belfast. But if a lot of people start spoiling their vote, nothing changes. However, if a lot of people start voting for a unionist in W Belfast, then something changes.
By the way, ruling out many of your local representatives on the basis that they weren't able to sort an issue for you personally seems a tad petty. And if that is how you judge your representatives, then why aren't you voting for the one that did sort it?? Which is more important, their constitutional position, or their actions on your behalf? You seem very mixed up about this.
The thing about your point is that it's every bit as likely that a group of people would spoil their vote as it is that a similarly sized group would vote for a DUP candidate in West Belfast. So if one is a waste of time, so is the other. It's a zero sum game - either both are a waste of time, or none are. I say none.
How on earth does that follow?! Also I don't think you know what either a straw man argument (which you used earlier), or a zero sum game, actually are.
I've changed my mind though, I think you should definitely spoil your vote.
Quote from: haranguerer on January 20, 2017, 02:18:49 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 20, 2017, 02:06:03 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on January 20, 2017, 11:44:22 AM
You're going round in circles. Lets compare like with like - you being the only person to spoil your vote, won't make much difference, as will you being the only person to change your vote to vote for say, a unionist in W Belfast. But if a lot of people start spoiling their vote, nothing changes. However, if a lot of people start voting for a unionist in W Belfast, then something changes.
By the way, ruling out many of your local representatives on the basis that they weren't able to sort an issue for you personally seems a tad petty. And if that is how you judge your representatives, then why aren't you voting for the one that did sort it?? Which is more important, their constitutional position, or their actions on your behalf? You seem very mixed up about this.
The thing about your point is that it's every bit as likely that a group of people would spoil their vote as it is that a similarly sized group would vote for a DUP candidate in West Belfast. So if one is a waste of time, so is the other. It's a zero sum game - either both are a waste of time, or none are. I say none.
How on earth does that follow?! Also I don't think you know what either a straw man argument (which you used earlier), or a zero sum game, actually are.
I've changed my mind though, I think you should definitely spoil your vote.
Your straw man argument was your ridiculous point that I was trying to start a 'spoil your vote' movement or some such tosh.
And I'm glad you've finally accepted that I'm right. ;)
As much as Franko and I have a 'thing' he's got his principles and sticking to them...
For me voting in newtownabbey is a bollox, so selecting candidates is limited, so spoiling a vote (which I've done in past) seems the right choice at times
Quote from: Franko on January 20, 2017, 02:06:03 PM
And I'm not mixed up in any way, I couldn't be clearer. The people in the 3 parties I mentioned didn't want to know about the issue I had so I ruled out giving them my vote. I don't see this as petty at all. This sort of thing is what we pay elected representatives for and if they don't act on a request or show an interest in these issues then I won't vote for them. And I'll state this again. I didn't vote for a unionist candidate because the constitutional question is quite important to me. I won't vote for someone whose views are completely opposed to mine on this. What's difficult to understand or unclear about this?
If the constitutional issue is so important to you, then councillors running errands for you should not be superior to this. So you should vote for constitutionally sound candidates first, and then make sure the helpful UU guy gets the highest preference of any constitutionally unsound candidate.
Quote from: armaghniac on January 21, 2017, 01:55:01 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 20, 2017, 02:06:03 PM
And I'm not mixed up in any way, I couldn't be clearer. The people in the 3 parties I mentioned didn't want to know about the issue I had so I ruled out giving them my vote. I don't see this as petty at all. This sort of thing is what we pay elected representatives for and if they don't act on a request or show an interest in these issues then I won't vote for them. And I'll state this again. I didn't vote for a unionist candidate because the constitutional question is quite important to me. I won't vote for someone whose views are completely opposed to mine on this. What's difficult to understand or unclear about this?
If the constitutional issue is so important to you, then councillors running errands for you should not be superior to this. So you should vote for constitutionally sound candidates first, and then make sure the helpful UU guy gets the highest preference of any constitutionally unsound candidate.
Agreed. Its a bit like ultra Republicans refusing to take part in British elections, well im afraid any future referendum will only be called if nationalists get enough votes in a "British" assembly election so sitting on ones arse is counter productive.
Quote from: armaghniac on January 21, 2017, 01:55:01 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 20, 2017, 02:06:03 PM
And I'm not mixed up in any way, I couldn't be clearer. The people in the 3 parties I mentioned didn't want to know about the issue I had so I ruled out giving them my vote. I don't see this as petty at all. This sort of thing is what we pay elected representatives for and if they don't act on a request or show an interest in these issues then I won't vote for them. And I'll state this again. I didn't vote for a unionist candidate because the constitutional question is quite important to me. I won't vote for someone whose views are completely opposed to mine on this. What's difficult to understand or unclear about this?
If the constitutional issue is so important to you, then councillors running errands for you should not be superior to this. So you should vote for constitutionally sound candidates first, and then make sure the helpful UU guy gets the highest preference of any constitutionally unsound candidate.
You're twisting my words. I said that the constitutional question was QUITE important to me. I'e, not so important that I'd refuse the help of a unionist councillor to sort issues pertinent to my livelihood, but important enough that I'd never vote for them. I don't believe this is an unreasonable position. Incidentally, the councillor sorted the issue at the request of a third party (mutual friend) who would think more along his lines! I'm not so sure they'd have been as helpful had I approached them directly.
Power base in SF shifting to the Freestate.With Mc Guinness gone and Adams on notice,the North will merely be a branch office of the Dublin power base,and Northern SF voters second class citizens as far as Mary Lou is concerned
Quote from: T Fearon on January 22, 2017, 10:31:39 PM
Power base in SF shifting to the Freestate.With Mc Guinness gone and Adams on notice,the North will merely be a branch office of the Dublin power base,and Northern SF voters second class citizens as far as Mary Lou is concerned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMVQCHgpYmI
(http://cdn-03.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/incoming/article35415223.ece/724f2/AUTOCROP/w620/Lucidtalkopinonpoll.jpg)
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2017, 02:47:40 PM
(http://cdn-03.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/incoming/article35415223.ece/724f2/AUTOCROP/w620/Lucidtalkopinonpoll.jpg)
Still pretty depressing reading for nationalists. Even including PBP and nationalist independents/others you are getting about 41% a figure nationaists have been stuck at for some 20 yrs. This demographic time bomb well and truly has been declared a hoax
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 02, 2017, 03:05:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2017, 02:47:40 PM
(http://cdn-03.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/incoming/article35415223.ece/724f2/AUTOCROP/w620/Lucidtalkopinonpoll.jpg)
Still pretty depressing reading for nationalists. Even including PBP and nationalist independents/others you are getting about 41% a figure nationaists have been stuck at for some 20 yrs. This demographic time bomb well and truly has been declared a hoax
Bottom line is always the finance one. Do Northern Nationalists believe that they and their families will be better of in United Ireland or a United Kingdom?
Its grand talking patriotic old shite up in the Felons Club on a Saturday night but what will put the spondulicks in the pocket
Quote from: armaghniac on February 02, 2017, 02:47:40 PM
(http://cdn-03.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/incoming/article35415223.ece/724f2/AUTOCROP/w620/Lucidtalkopinonpoll.jpg)
It's depressing to think that the DUP vote is affected by just 3% after the corruption surrounding the RHI and the bigoted views of many within the DUP party. In any normal society the vote would be destroyed but the reality is that they can always rely on a sectarian vote count to win them the day. Indeed Foster will probably see it as some form of vindication if she maintains that level of vote come election time.
The Alliance vote should be broken down by religion
The DUP are very defensive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Aa1rvdyG-U
compared to the Shinners
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3iE_VIqHHk
A good step forward in a PEB for SDLP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt5dkjT_bto%20/url)
However, this is possibly the best. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OAezF6Qd6E%20/url)
QuoteStill pretty depressing reading for nationalists. Even including PBP and nationalist independents/others you are getting about 41% a figure nationaists have been stuck at for some 20 yrs. This demographic time bomb well and truly has been declared a hoax
nationalists 41% unionists 45% Others 13%
that's how it is going to be, except in the next election it will be nationalists 42% unionists 44% and so on.
the demographic time bomb is still ticking. The 60+ aged people who are 60% unionist do turn out at elections, the 18-30 group do not turn out as well.
The DUP may lose out on transfers, the UU is a coalition of between true blues and others who might be annoyed both a RHI and Brexit and whose transfer will go to Alliance and the SDLP.
The important thing is that this will reduce the DUP to below 30, so no petitions of concern without others being involved. And there should be clear majority for common sense on Brexit, notwithstanding the looney left.
Basically the DUP's mantra is "we're not them" which sadly works for a lot of people but they are a party based on nothing but defensiveness and that is it.
Armaghniac i hope you are right. If the DUP petition of concern numbers could be reduced then that if nothing else will be worth it and it is a massive step. I have my doubts though :-(
Don't see any way that the DUP will be below 30
I have my doubts too. That would be massive progress but I have my doubts.
Quote from: Minder on February 03, 2017, 10:49:16 AM
Don't see any way that the DUP will be below 30
Why not. The number of seats has been reduced to 90, 30 is one-third of that. The DUP have 26% in the poll, seats are not quite proportional to first preferences, you could add a couple of % for the TUV transfers and so on. But it is hard to see them getting 30, I'd say something like 28. IMHO this one of the reasons SF pulled the plug, if the number seats wasn't reduced they wouldn't have bothered.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 03, 2017, 10:35:52 AM
QuoteStill pretty depressing reading for nationalists. Even including PBP and nationalist independents/others you are getting about 41% a figure nationaists have been stuck at for some 20 yrs. This demographic time bomb well and truly has been declared a hoax
nationalists 41% unionists 45% Others 13%
that's how it is going to be, except in the next election it will be nationalists 42% unionists 44% and so on.
the demographic time bomb is still ticking. The 60+ aged people who are 60% unionist do turn out at elections, the 18-30 group do not turn out as well.
The DUP may lose out on transfers, the UU is a coalition of between true blues and others who might be annoyed both a RHI and Brexit and whose transfer will go to Alliance and the SDLP.
The important thing is that this will reduce the DUP to below 30, so no petitions of concern without others being involved. And there should be clear majority for common sense on Brexit, notwithstanding the looney left.
in 10 years it will look very different
Quote from: armaghniac on February 03, 2017, 10:35:52 AM
QuoteStill pretty depressing reading for nationalists. Even including PBP and nationalist independents/others you are getting about 41% a figure nationaists have been stuck at for some 20 yrs. This demographic time bomb well and truly has been declared a hoax
nationalists 41% unionists 45% Others 13%
that's how it is going to be, except in the next election it will be nationalists 42% unionists 44% and so on.
the demographic time bomb is still ticking. The 60+ aged people who are 60% unionist do turn out at elections, the 18-30 group do not turn out as well.
The DUP may lose out on transfers, the UU is a coalition of between true blues and others who might be annoyed both a RHI and Brexit and whose transfer will go to Alliance and the SDLP.
The important thing is that this will reduce the DUP to below 30, so no petitions of concern without others being involved. And there should be clear majority for common sense on Brexit, notwithstanding the looney left.
I agree with the logic however we had similar figures 20 yrs ago in fact at one election in the early noughties nationalism hit 45% so it quite clearly is stalling. There must be a hell of a lot of 90 yr old unionists voting. Of course in reality young catholics cant be arsed to vote or are voting for others in much greater numbers than protestants. Funny feeling when the numbers actually happen most so called nationalists wont care. Maybe brexit might give them the kick up the arse they need but not sure rampant sectarianism, racism, homophobia, corruption, incompetence etc etc doesnt seem to bother them so not very hopefull
Are POC's based on a percentage or fixed number?
Quote from: haranguerer on February 03, 2017, 12:58:27 PM
Are POC's based on a percentage or fixed number?
The number was fixed at 30 and has not been adjusted when the seats were reduced.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 03, 2017, 11:54:54 AM
I agree with the logic however we had similar figures 20 yrs ago in fact at one election in the early noughties nationalism hit 45% so it quite clearly is stalling. There must be a hell of a lot of 90 yr old unionists voting. Of course in reality young catholics cant be arsed to vote or are voting for others in much greater numbers than protestants. Funny feeling when the numbers actually happen most so called nationalists wont care. Maybe brexit might give them the kick up the arse they need but not sure rampant sectarianism, racism, homophobia, corruption, incompetence etc etc doesnt seem to bother them so not very hopefull
The poor turnout is disappointing. However, the 45% was reached in the European election, a first past the post 6 county wide election at a time of marked political progress. The problem with Stormont is that you get much the same regardless of the vote, which is hardly an encouragement to vote. But removing getting the DUP below 30 can lead to some change so is a worthy reason to turn out and vote for everyone else. This issue of pensioners voting is not just an NI thing, it more or less swung the Brexit vote in England. Having nationalist politicians that were some use would help too of course.
Would there still not be a veto as DFM & FM are going to be SF & DUP, in whatever order ?
Brexit is going to change things because it's the ultra rich in England linking up with their counterparts in the US . and they don't care about Unionism.
"European laws protecting the public interest were portrayed by Conservative Eurosceptics as intolerable intrusions on corporate freedom. Taking back control from Europe means closer integration with the US. The transatlantic special relationship is a special relationship between political and corporate power. That power is cemented by the networks Liam Fox helped to develop."
DUP voters are taken care of in Europe. They won't be under Brexit.
Quote from: Minder on February 03, 2017, 01:42:41 PM
Would there still not be a veto as DFM & FM are going to be SF & DUP, in whatever order ?
The only veto they have is to resign.
I'm interested to see how the events in Stormont over the past few months will affect voter turnout. Will it light a fire under people's arses or will it in-fact turn off even more voters?
Had a look through some of the stats in random electoral wards over past three elections. Used the first three wards that came to mind in each 'tradition.' Bear in mind that this isn't a full picture but does highlight why the nationalist vote has stalled over the past ten years. Could this be the election to get the green vote out in much greater numbers or with Arlene 'Crocodile Dundee' Foster's sneering attitude stir up the unionists? Interesting times ahead.
Nationalist dominated areas
West Tyrone
2016 - 59.86%
2011 - 64%
2007 - 71.7%
Drop = 11.84%
Mid ulster
2016 - 58.75%
2011 - 65.35%
2007 - 73.35%
Drop = 14.6%
Newry and Mourne
2016 - 59.32%
2011 - 61.34%
2007 - 70.83%
Drop = 11.51%
Average drop off = 12.65%
Unionist dominated areas
S Antrim
2016 - 51.01%
2011 - 50.06%
2007 - 58.6%
Drop = 7.59%
N Down
2016 - 49.57%
2011 - 45.89%
2007 - 53.77%
Drop = 4.2%
Strangford
2016 - 50.25%
2011 - 48.25%
2007 - 54.5%
Drop = 4.25%
Average drop off = 5.35%
Part of the fall in the voter turnout has been caused by the predictability of the PR system in each area. If your candidates appear to be able to be elected easily on the previous occasion, the voting can be left to the hardcore support. If your candidate has little or no hope of being elected what's the point in voting. The inability to change the government is also a factor with the hardcore DUP-SF sectarian voting blocks ensuring that the returned government is unchanged. The opposition had little time to fully coalesce and present a unit front even though the RHI scandal was a gift.
Arlene only has to play the orange card to turn out her hardcore supporters and those unable to think it out for themselves. So what if £20m per year is added to the money already decided to be paid to the boiler men, its a tiny fraction of the £10bn block grant. So, just make sure SF are not given the title of FM even though it is a joint office. In return, SF have played into the DUP hands by ensuring that Adams remains the bogeyman for the unionist voter. But that suits them because they can play the green card and try to mobilise the core to keep their dominance of nationalist votes. This in turn causes a drop in the nationalist vote as non-SF voters decide not to bother to vote as the sectarian game means their vote can be meaningless.
All very depressing.
Quote from: AQMP on February 07, 2017, 09:56:30 AM
Jonathan Bell is running as an Independent in Strangford. Will be interesting to see if his "honesty" has much traction with the DUP heads there.;
Jonathan Bell running as independent is very interesting, whether he will be elected or not, he will definitely take votes from the DUP, after all he only came out an told the truth. He definitely gain transfers from UUP. My first prediction for Strangford was 3DUP 1UUP 1AP. I think I got that wrong!
Quote from: AQMP on February 09, 2017, 10:58:45 AM
Nominations are now closed. 228 candidates (48 fewer than in May 16) standing for 90 seats. 30% are women (up 3% from last time)
DUP - 38
SF - 34
UUP - 24
SDLP - 21
All - 21
Greens - 18
TUV - 14
Tories - 13
Trots#1 (PBP) - 7
Stickies - 5
Trots #2 (Labour Alternative) - 4
PUP - 3
CISTA - 3
UKIP - 1
Others - 22
West Tyrone, East Derry and East Antrim have 15 candidates each. Newry & Armagh only 9 going for 5 seats
TUV have 14 - that's funny. 13 people trying to be Jim Allister. I miss Bob "man of integrity" McCartney
Quote from: Orior on February 09, 2017, 11:25:42 AM
Quote from: AQMP on February 09, 2017, 10:58:45 AM
Nominations are now closed. 228 candidates (48 fewer than in May 16) standing for 90 seats. 30% are women (up 3% from last time)
DUP - 38
SF - 34
UUP - 24
SDLP - 21
All - 21
Greens - 18
TUV - 14
Tories - 13
Trots#1 (PBP) - 7
Stickies - 5
Trots #2 (Labour Alternative) - 4
PUP - 3
CISTA - 3
UKIP - 1
Others - 22
West Tyrone, East Derry and East Antrim have 15 candidates each. Newry & Armagh only 9 going for 5 seats
TUV have 14 - that's funny. 13 people trying to be Jim Allister. I miss Bob "man of integrity" McCartney
Shouldnt all those socialists unite the 'labour alterantive people before profit workers party' just rolls off the tongue or LAPBPWP for short or even easier some variation of Sinn Fein just like the good old days
Are there any GAA candidates? It often works down South eg Sean Flanagan, Jimmy Deenihan
Quote from: seafoid on February 09, 2017, 11:42:45 AM
Are there any GAA candidates? It often works down South eg Sean Flanagan, Jimmy Deenihan
Justin McNulty for the stoops in Newry & Armagh.
Peter Canavan pops up now and again before diving.. off
A deposit of only £150 encourages a wide range of candidates, e.g. West Tyrone, and some return to the field again despite achieving such a small vote in May 2016.
Boyle Michaela Sinn Féin [4,460 11.5%]
Brown Barry Citizens Independent Social Thought Alliance CISTA [547 1.4%]
Buchanan Thomas DUP [4,650 12.0%] (3,884 10.0% Allan Bresland - not standing)
Chittick Charlie TUV
Clarke Alicia UUP [4,441 11.4%] - (R Hussey vote but not standing this time)
Donnelly Stephen Alliance [494 1.3%]
French Corey Independent [124 0.3%]
Lomas Roger Conservatives [44 0.1%]
McAleer Declan Sinn Féin [3,565 9.2%]
McAnespy Sorcha Independent [828 2.1%]
McClean Ciaran Green Party [458 1.2%]
McCrossan Daniel SDLP [4,287 11.0%]
McElduff Barry Sinn Féin [4,568 11.8%]
McMackin Roisin Independent
White Susan - Anne Independent [85 0.2%]
In last election but not standing:
Sinn Féin 3,711 9.6%
Independent 1,778 4.6% (Previously SDLP)
Independent 661 1.7% (Previously SDLP)
Animal Welfare Party 224 0.6%
I see alliance are running a candidate in West Belfast, young, female, Catholic.
Quote from: Minder on February 09, 2017, 10:52:00 PM
I see alliance are running a candidate in West Belfast, young, female, Catholic.
No chance in W. Belfast.
Fermanagh South Tyrone
12 candidates for the 5 spots.
I would assume SF & DUP 2 each in the bag.
Rosemary Barton, UUP
Noreen Campbell, Alliance Party
Jemma Dolan, Sinn Féin
Richard Dunn, Conservatives
Alex Elliott, TUV
Arlene Foster, DUP
Michelle Gildernew, Sinn Féin
Tanya Jones, Green Party
Sean Lynch, Sinn Féin
Richie McPhillips, SDLP
Maurice Morrow, DUP
Donal Ó Cófaigh, Cross Community Labour Alternative
Would good voter management by SF (usually a strength) get their third candidate in or is the 5th seat likely to come down to the wire with SDLP & UU both in the hunt?
Quote from: AQMP on February 10, 2017, 09:47:19 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 09, 2017, 11:01:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on February 09, 2017, 10:52:00 PM
I see alliance are running a candidate in West Belfast, young, female, Catholic.
No chance in W. Belfast.
Alliance got 291 FPs last May. She'll probably do better than that in the current climate, but even if she doubles the vote she'll only be neck and neck with the Stickies
They need to find a guy called Gerry Adams to stand and hope that confuses people in the voting booth.
Quote from: LeoMc on February 10, 2017, 10:55:27 AM
Fermanagh South Tyrone
12 candidates for the 5 spots.
I would assume SF & DUP 2 each in the bag.
Rosemary Barton, UUP
Noreen Campbell, Alliance Party
Jemma Dolan, Sinn Féin
Richard Dunn, Conservatives
Alex Elliott, TUV
Arlene Foster, DUP
Michelle Gildernew, Sinn Féin
Tanya Jones, Green Party
Sean Lynch, Sinn Féin
Richie McPhillips, SDLP
Maurice Morrow, DUP
Donal Ó Cófaigh, Cross Community Labour Alternative
Would good voter management by SF (usually a strength) get their third candidate in or is the 5th seat likely to come down to the wire with SDLP & UU both in the hunt?
Might be a bit too tricky to balance 3 SF but lets hope nationalists turnout AND TRANSFER between themselves to ensure 3rd SF or 1 SDLP over a third unionist. Same goes WT and MU where 4 nationalists are a reality on slightly improved turmout. Same goes for Foyle where no unionists is a possibility and a third nationalist in North Belfast. If nationalist turn out then it could be a very intersting election if they dont then its more of the same
I WILL VOTE FOR EVERY PARTY APART FROM THE TWO IN GOVERNMENT WHO HAVE MADE A BALLS OF THE THING!
Maybe wishful thinking. The DUP are 3k under 2 quotas. If they don't split their vote well could they be under a bit of trouble to get two elected ST/F?
With rhi hopefully their 1st preferences and transfers take a hit. An increased turnout would also add more pressure on them.
All of which probably won't happen though. Get out vote folks.
I have said it elsewhere even the smallest pick up in turnout would be hugely significant for nationalism. Suddenly 4 seats in WT and MU are possible, 3 in FST and NB and in Foyle McCann could get in at the expense of the DUP even a 4th nationalist in Nerwy and Armagh isnt impossible and such a result would have Unioinism and Nationalism on about the same number of seats unfortunately too many cant be bothered or say they are all as bad as each other well they are not so make the difference and vote!!!!!! Stormont might not be back for a very long time but the more seats and vote% the bigger the mandate the more clout at negotaitions or just sit at home fingers crossed hoping that everything will be alright in the end
If you are on WhatsApp group or the likes, encourage everyone on it, to get out and vote.
If you have training on that week, make sure the management has iton the Thursday night, so everyone is home to vote.
And use ye're feckin preferences!!
SF letting themselves down each time as they have no notion of the cost of an Irish Language Act. If McCausland can come up with his illogical estimate extrapolated from Welsh Councils surely someone in SF has enough numeracy to match him with a cost and the leadership should be brave enough to say the Act will cost £millions but it is important to implement. No one in SF has been up to this so far and McCausland has carried the argument.
Was at Mass tonight in Lurgan,and tracts were handed out to all attendees inside the chapel outlining each political party's policy on abortion and urging people to vote for avid pro life parties like the DUP and TUV.
Quote from: Stall the Bailer on February 10, 2017, 12:20:39 PM
If you are on WhatsApp group or the likes, encourage everyone on it, to get out and vote.
If you have training on that week, make sure the management has iton the Thursday night, so everyone is home to vote.
Benny get the word out to hardy and the lads. ;)
Quote from: Rossfan on February 10, 2017, 12:22:36 PM
And use ye're feckin preferences!!
There will be a United Ireland by easter.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 11, 2017, 09:14:27 PM
Was at Mass tonight in Lurgan,and tracts were handed out to all attendees inside the chapel outlining each political party's policy on abortion and urging people to vote for avid pro life parties like the DUP and TUV.
Disgraceful on 2 counts.
Devout Catholics cannot morally support parties who would allow abortion
I'm totally against abortion but vote for parties/individuals based on the whole package.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 11, 2017, 09:58:45 PM
Devout Catholics cannot morally support parties who would allow abortion
anyone who votes based on religion is retarded!
Not if you believe your eternal destiny depends on it
Quote from: T Fearon on February 11, 2017, 09:58:45 PM
Devout Catholics cannot morally support parties who would allow abortion
I'd like to hope the governing parties of Northern Ireland aren't responsible for my eternal destiny, and it is more about the choices I make myself.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 11, 2017, 09:58:45 PM
Devout Catholics cannot morally support parties who would allow abortion
But they are happy to take guidance from the people who carried out, and covered up, child sex abuse.
Quote from: Windmill abu on February 12, 2017, 12:37:44 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 11, 2017, 09:58:45 PM
Devout Catholics cannot morally support parties who would allow abortion
But they are happy to take guidance from the people who carried out, and covered up, child sex abuse.
Not true, as you well know.
Rois there are no choices when it comes to Church Doctrine.Failure to follow it defies God's Word
Sure wasn't it made embarrassingly clear by Take Yer Points (?) that you weren't overly clear on the Doctrine either?
FFS Tony, vote DUP if you wish. You say they are all nice to you and all that. You're not exactly enamoured to the thought of a United Ireland either and sure they tick your 'moral' boxes. Just saying...
Irish Language Act is a classic diversionary tactic used by DUP and SF to disguise their joint failure to deliver on things that really matter
Quote from: T Fearon on February 12, 2017, 06:44:05 AM
Rois there are no choices when it comes to Church Doctrine.Failure to follow it defies God's Word
We've had this argument before and you never answered me on why it is acceptable to you to follow a soccer team who blatantly breach the Sabbath doctrine, as well as compel many many others to do the same in service of the games. Same for Sunday visits to Croke Park, do you boycott those? Hypocrisy if you pick and choose.
And the fish on a Friday thing, the holy days of obligation, the purgatory thing etc etc.
It is not the same.Keeping Holy on the Sabbath does not preclude innocuous recreational activity.But abortion issue is black and white.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 12, 2017, 09:52:26 AM
It is not the same.Keeping Holy on the Sabbath does not preclude innocuous recreational activity.But abortion issue is black and white.
No no no, others have to work so you can enjoy your recreational activity. By engaging in it you are condoning people going against church doctrine.
I interpret keeping holy as attending Mass,there is no insinuation whatsoever in this commandment to avoid work or any other harmless or non sinful activity which can be carried out while one maintains holiness status.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 12, 2017, 07:56:03 AM
Sure wasn't it made embarrassingly clear by Take Your Points that you weren't overly clear on the Doctrine either?
As became abundantly clear in a previous thread, Tony is more religiously comfortable in a Protestant denominational version of Christianity, his God is an angry God demanding repentance and his Church demands obedience from all members to its strict biblical rather than Gospel message. In Tony's Church there is no scope for the individual to use their freewill to decide on their own behaviours and where they do then repentance is required.
Whereas in the Gospels are provided as guidelines to moral behaviour and individuals must deal with the freewill they have been given, they should love one another and forgive and be forgiven when things go wrong.
In terms of voting, the pro-abortion stance of some parties is being used as a reason for some groups to give moral guidance about how an individual should cast his/her ballot in the coming election and this can be OK except it becomes a narrow view. They are saying it is OK to vote DUP or TUV as anti-abortion parties as alternatives to others supporting abortion but this ignores the facts that both parties are happy to bring back capital punishment, it is Ok to waste the earth's resources, it is OK to run hate campaigns against their fellow countrymen, I could go on and on. To vote from a Christian standpoint needs to be for the greatest good. Remember that in the end it is the individual who decides to avail of the facilities and legality to have an abortion and not the political parties.
It is impossible to vote purely on black and white moral terms and the consequence is not to vote.
I think you will find that it is the core doctrine of all Christian churches that hell awaits those who sin seriously and repeatedly without repentance.On a lot of issues there is no scope for freewill,it is black and white
Quote from: T Fearon on February 12, 2017, 01:26:37 PM
I think you will find that it is the core doctrine of all Christian churches that hell awaits those who sin seriously and repeatedly without repentance.On a lot of issues there is no scope for freewill,it is black and white
There is always scope for freewill, God provided all humans with freewill and the ability to use it. Freewill is the power to act at one's own discretion without constraint of necessity or fate.
Everyone has freewill but everyone must accept the consequences of using their freewill. In using our freewill within the Catholic faith we have the guidance of the teaching of Jesus as expounded by the Gospels.
In reference to hell, you will only find some references to it in Matthew's gospel but these references are due to the English translation of the original Hebrew script and was carried out by classical scholars who related to Hades. Jesus rarely referred to hell and when he did it was using a Hebrew word - Gehenna which was the place outside Jerusalem where rubbish was dumped and burnt. This was a reference included for the Jews of the time and not a reference to the Hell being used by Tony.
Fair play to mike he is goibg to tranfer to SDLP before other unionist parties
Yes there is freewill but if its used to defy scripture there will be consequences.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 12, 2017, 07:31:52 PM
Yes there is freewill but if its used to defy scripture there will be consequences.
Don't worry, you'll be dead by time the consequences come into it
Quote from: T Fearon on February 12, 2017, 07:31:52 PM
Yes there is freewill but if its used to defy scripture there will be consequences.
That is exactly the point that I have made in response to your statement that:
"there is no scope for freewill"
The consequence depends on the range of interpretations that are made of the guidance provided in the Gospels rather than in the biblical scripture of the Old Testament which is preferred by you and the Protestant Christian denominations where God is to be feared rather than loved and he is a God of retribution rather than having love for each person and always forgiving when people are human and fail to reach the ideals set out in the Gospels.
Any other opinion polls? Apart from Tony's opinions on religious teaching?
SluggeroToole Discussion (http://sluggerotoole.com/2017/02/12/forecasting-the-2017-assembly-election/)
This is a result of a simulation of transfers.
(https://i0.wp.com/sluggerotoole.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Forecast_Table.png)
another guy has looked at this looking at interactions, i.e. if both DUP and UU are 0.8 if one gets it the other is much less likely to so.
on this basis
27 DUP (Max 28, Min 25)
22 SF (Max 26, Min 20)
16 UUP (Max 17, Min 14)
10 SDLP (Max 11, Min 7)
8 Alliance (Max 10 Min 8)
3 PBPA (Max 3, Min 3)
2 Green (Max 2, Min 2)
1 Ind U (Max 1, Min 0)
Quote from: T Fearon on February 12, 2017, 01:26:37 PM
I think you will find that it is the core doctrine of all Christian churches that hell awaits those who sin seriously and repeatedly without repentance.On a lot of issues there is no scope for freewill,it is black and white
Protestants don't agree with Catholic doctrine and the Pope is infallible. How can Protestants go to heaven?
Quote from: T Fearon on February 11, 2017, 09:58:45 PM
Devout Catholics cannot morally support parties who would allow abortion
none of the 6 left will vote at all
Quote from: T Fearon on February 12, 2017, 07:31:52 PM
Yes there is freewill but if its used to defy scripture there will be consequences.
and by the way, to which scripture do you adhere, and how's your Aramaic?
And despite your whack job selective absolutism you will of course be aware that your new pope gave all priests the right to forgiveness for abortion in the sacrament of penance and the remittance of the penalty of excommunication.
Thats not even touching the delayed animation concept, where the church believed that a should din't inhabit a fetus immediately (with the spectacular bias justifiable by only those who believe God makes them special, that's 40 days for a male fetus and 90 for the female in case you cared) and so early term abortions were a whole other kettle of fish.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 12, 2017, 07:31:52 PM
Yes there is freewill but if its used to defy scripture there will be consequences.
Is this why the Holocaust happened? A lot of Orthodox Jews think so.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 11, 2017, 09:14:27 PM
Was at Mass tonight in Lurgan,and tracts were handed out to all attendees inside the chapel outlining each political party's policy on abortion and urging people to vote for avid pro life parties like the DUP and TUV.
Mass on a Saturday night, what modernist deviation this is from the lords holy book and doctrine?
Devout Catholics always go to mass on the Sunday as it is Gods will.
Here is the latest in the weird and wonderful world of six county politics.
SF pulled down the gov because of alleged corruption. All they had been asking for is for Arlene Foster to stand aside for four weeks. The UUP said SF were soft because, they were asking for her resignation. So now we have an election.
This is where the SDLP come in. In an attempt to stop SF, they and the UUP have been costing up to each other. COlm Eastwood spoke at their conference. ANd they have been bigging up all the wondrous things they would do if they got into the executive, so apparently it would make sense for them to be in together. Until you factor in the following;
SDLP and UUP disagree on the exact same things a as SF DUP disagreed on.
Irish Language Act
Legacy issues
Brexit
Welfare reform
Education SDLP anto selection, UUP pro selection
Even the new A6 Road, UUP against it because it is a fenian road and SDLP for it.
Add in to this the fact that at Westminster elections, the unionists close ranks like an orange lodge to stop themmuns getting in (it took a TUV, DUP, UUP pact to keep Naomi Long of ALLIANCE out of Westminster because she stood up to the bully boys of the flag protests)
They also had pacts in Femanagh south Tyrone, Newry and Armagh and North Belfast to stop nationalists getting in. They will always come together like this for Westminster elections, just in case a Catholic might get in.
Now Danny Kennedy has issued a statement disagreeing with Mike Nesbitt regarding transfers. Nesbitt only said that he himself would transfer to an SDLP candidate but didn't ask anyone else to do so. Kennedy said he wanted his voters to transfer to WIlliam Irwin, a DUP man with family links to RHI.
And the SDLP refuse to get into a Westminster pact with SF to oppose this sheer bigotry.
It's not as if the SDLP have a strong hand to play. Margaret Ritchie gets in in South Down because Unionists vote for her to keep the SF person out, so she spouts pro unionist nonsense whenever she can. The Derry seat will probably go to SF when Mark Durkan goes. SOuth Belfast is going anyway at the next election. Alastair got in by the skin of his teeth with the lowest vote of any MP, just over 9000.
However, the net result of the SDLP 'principled stand' is Tom ELliot in Fermanagh south Tyrone and Nigel Dodds in north Belfast. There is also a nationalist majority in Upper Bann.
The SDLP really take me to the fair. If they listened for one moment to the nationalist electorate, they would hear loud and clear what they want and dont want. We dont want bigots getting in when we can stop it. You would imagine that this latest kick in the teeth from unionism would make them wake up and see reality, but no. Their campaign is all about anti SF, and not calling out unionism for what it is. There is nothing sectarian about two parties who wish to see a united Ireland working together for the betterment of its electorate. For some reason they think there is.
Meanwhile, the unionists will mind each other, look out for each other and nationalism will continue to stay at home.
Hunniford from Alliance putting his foot in it and upsetting the Unionists;
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/alliance-official-steps-down-amid-fury-at-unionists-bred-to-hate-catholics-comment-35444963.html
All he had to do was put "many" before Unionists. ...
Some discussion here
https://bangordub.wordpress.com/2017/02/09/2017-assembly-election-fahas-view/comment-page-1/#comment-11245
including this table, which shows the importance of nationalists getting off their arses.
(https://bangordub.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/2016-turnout-faha-2017.jpg)
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2017, 05:01:11 PM
Some discussion here
https://bangordub.wordpress.com/2017/02/09/2017-assembly-election-fahas-view/comment-page-1/#comment-11245
including this table, which shows the importance of nationalists getting off their arses.
(https://bangordub.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/2016-turnout-faha-2017.jpg)
West Tyrone
Nationalist 52%
Unionist 65%
Total - 117%
Am I missing something obvious here?
Quote from: ziggysego on February 14, 2017, 05:19:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2017, 05:01:11 PM
Some discussion here
https://bangordub.wordpress.com/2017/02/09/2017-assembly-election-fahas-view/comment-page-1/#comment-11245
including this table, which shows the importance of nationalists getting off their arses.
(https://bangordub.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/2016-turnout-faha-2017.jpg)
West Tyrone
Nationalist 52%
Unionist 65%
Total - 117%
Am I missing something obvious here?
Yes
Quote from: ziggysego on February 14, 2017, 05:19:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2017, 05:01:11 PM
Some discussion here
https://bangordub.wordpress.com/2017/02/09/2017-assembly-election-fahas-view/comment-page-1/#comment-11245
including this table, which shows the importance of nationalists getting off their arses.
(https://bangordub.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/2016-turnout-faha-2017.jpg)
West Tyrone
Nationalist 52%
Unionist 65%
Total - 117%
Am I missing something obvious here?
Its 52% of nationalists in WT vote and 65% of unionists vote showing the general apathy of nationalists right across northern ireland
Jordy mcKeag official LAD/notorious barrick boys candidate east belfast vote early vote often
Quote from: ziggysego on February 14, 2017, 05:19:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2017, 05:01:11 PM
Some discussion here
https://bangordub.wordpress.com/2017/02/09/2017-assembly-election-fahas-view/comment-page-1/#comment-11245
including this table, which shows the importance of nationalists getting off their arses.
(https://bangordub.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/2016-turnout-faha-2017.jpg)
West Tyrone
Nationalist 52%
Unionist 65%
Total - 117%
Am I missing something obvious here?
You're better than this Ziggy.
Get out and vote ye hoors.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 14, 2017, 08:50:22 PM
Get out and vote ye hoors.
I have a black taxi taking me to West Belfast after work on 2nd March.
I'm tired. Not forgivable though.
I wonder what foster's angle is with the petition of concern thing. Must think that could lose the dup votes.
I will be voting but lets say a miracle happens and SF are voted in as the largest party what do people think would happen....thats right straight to direct rule thats what. Unionists will never accept a nationalist majority and that is why a shared government will never work here.
Quote from: Hereiam on February 14, 2017, 09:55:53 PM
I will be voting but lets say a miracle happens and SF are voted in as the largest party what do people think would happen....thats right straight to direct rule thats what. Unionists will never accept a nationalist majority and that is why a shared government will never work here.
SF being the biggest party is unlikely, and IMHO would not be helpful at this point. I think a period when unionists do not have a majority and the balance of power is held by Alliance/Greens etc would be less likely to break the whole thing.
What does Foster hope to achieve by her comments today on POC?
I would have thought her hardcore supporter base would have approved of her party's use of POC in the past, and the likelihood of using it again. Is she anticipating a reduced majority in the future government set up & putting the cart before the horse?
Quote from: stiffler on February 14, 2017, 11:01:26 PM
What does Foster hope to achieve by her comments today on POC?
I would have thought her hardcore supporter base would have approved of her party's use of POC in the past, and the likelihood of using it again. Is she anticipating a reduced majority in the future government set up & putting the cart before the horse?
With the reduction in the number of seats, she is quite likely to end up with the less than the 30 required for the POC. Removing it means the Taigs can't use it.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2017, 11:45:42 PM
Quote from: stiffler on February 14, 2017, 11:01:26 PM
What does Foster hope to achieve by her comments today on POC?
I would have thought her hardcore supporter base would have approved of her party's use of POC in the past, and the likelihood of using it again. Is she anticipating a reduced majority in the future government set up & putting the cart before the horse?
With the reduction in the number of seats, she is quite likely to end up with the less than the 30 required for the POC. Removing it means the Taigs can't use it.
By removing it means unionists (dup + few) won't be able to use it either though.
Quote from: stiffler on February 15, 2017, 07:32:20 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2017, 11:45:42 PM
Quote from: stiffler on February 14, 2017, 11:01:26 PM
What does Foster hope to achieve by her comments today on POC?
I would have thought her hardcore supporter base would have approved of her party's use of POC in the past, and the likelihood of using it again. Is she anticipating a reduced majority in the future government set up & putting the cart before the horse?
With the reduction in the number of seats, she is quite likely to end up with the less than the 30 required for the POC. Removing it means the Taigs can't use it.
By removing it means unionists (dup + few) won't be able to use it either though.
How can it be removed ?
If they really wanted to they could remove it.
Possibly right Armaghniac. Maybe a bit of fear.
If the DUP get in it is the same as SF as they won't with with foster as first minister so basically whoever is voted in there is still a likelihood of direct rule I'd have thought.
Unless UUP or SDLP surprise us but that is very very unlikely.
I discovered yesterday that my name had been removed from the voting register, I was made aware of it and had up to 5pm to get register.. but I don't know why I was removed as I always vote? Anyone know why
A major failure. (http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/02/15/news/sinn-fe-in-irish-language-election-poster-contains-spelling-mistake-932439%20/url)
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2017, 11:45:42 PM
Quote from: stiffler on February 14, 2017, 11:01:26 PM
What does Foster hope to achieve by her comments today on POC?
I would have thought her hardcore supporter base would have approved of her party's use of POC in the past, and the likelihood of using it again. Is she anticipating a reduced majority in the future government set up & putting the cart before the horse?
With the reduction in the number of seats, she is quite likely to end up with the less than the 30 required for the POC. Removing it means the Taigs can't use it.
It would seem they're predicting their numbers at less than 30, trying to get credit for giving up something they're fairly sure to lose anyway.
POC itself not necessarily a bad thing, just DUP abuse of it has been.
Quote from: hardstation on February 15, 2017, 10:48:46 AM
Quote from: leenie on February 15, 2017, 10:46:43 AM
I discovered yesterday that my name had been removed from the voting register, I was made aware of it and had up to 5pm to get register.. but I don't know why I was removed as I always vote? Anyone know why
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=27655.0
I don't even understand that thread
I've been a SF voter all my life and TBH now and over that last few years i'm really (couldn't give a f**k)not bothered. If i'm really honest i have probably voted for SF to counter act DUP voters more than what SF can do for me. So question is where do we go from here? I'm asking myself the same questions...Don't want them bigoted DUP hoors to get in and will my SF vote make any difference to NI politics as SF and DUP will just get voted in again as the 2 largest parties and back to the status quo...Where does this all end?
I know this would never happen but what about SF and SDLP doing a secret deal with each other (the day b4 the votes...or is that not possible) and merge parties before the other side has the time to do the same and sweep up...lol. In all seriousness this country is f**ked up and will take another 2-3 generations to sort out...i'll certainly not see it in my time.
So who do i vote for (if any)?
Quote from: illdecide on February 15, 2017, 11:31:12 AM
I've been a SF voter all my life and TBH now and over that last few years i'm really (couldn't give a f**k)not bothered. If i'm really honest i have probably voted for SF to counter act DUP voters more than what SF can do for me. So question is where do we go from here? I'm asking myself the same questions...Don't want them bigoted DUP hoors to get in and will my SF vote make any difference to NI politics as SF and DUP will just get voted in again as the 2 largest parties and back to the status quo...Where does this all end?
I know this would never happen but what about SF and SDLP doing a secret deal with each other (the day b4 the votes...or is that not possible) and merge parties before the other side has the time to do the same and sweep up...lol. In all seriousness this country is f**ked up and will take another 2-3 generations to sort out...i'll certainly not see it in my time.
So who do i vote for (if any)?
The turnout in the last assembly election was 54% - this all ends when the other 45% get out and vote!
Vote sensibly and use the transfers.
Many of those not voting are the ones disillusioned with politics, and are tired of the tribal politics. However the non voters are actually the majority - if every non voter voted for one of the non mainstream parties, we could actually see some changes!
DUP voters flying the Butcher's apron as usual.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C36t_pcXAAAYlBg.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C36t_pdWIAA-4Kk.jpg)
UU voters going to transfer centreward, if not all the to DUP. This could put some DUP seats under pressure.
To be fair, how many SF voters (or SDLP voters for that matter) that are going to transfer are going to have a unionist as their second preference?
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 15, 2017, 07:29:08 PM
To be fair, how many SF voters (or SDLP voters for that matter) that are going to transfer are going to have a unionist as their second preference?
I'll have the UUP before SF
Quote from: Rois on February 15, 2017, 08:09:18 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 15, 2017, 07:29:08 PM
To be fair, how many SF voters (or SDLP voters for that matter) that are going to transfer are going to have a unionist as their second preference?
I'll have the UUP before SF
I might do too.
Quote from: trileacman on February 15, 2017, 08:18:07 PM
Quote from: Rois on February 15, 2017, 08:09:18 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 15, 2017, 07:29:08 PM
To be fair, how many SF voters (or SDLP voters for that matter) that are going to transfer are going to have a unionist as their second preference?
I'll have the UUP before SF
I might do too.
I think some (a lot?) of SDLP voters with an abhorrence of any links to violence would rather vote for the DUP than SF. First motion in any nationalist organisation being the split and all that comes into effect also.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 15, 2017, 09:15:37 PM
Quote from: trileacman on February 15, 2017, 08:18:07 PM
Quote from: Rois on February 15, 2017, 08:09:18 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 15, 2017, 07:29:08 PM
To be fair, how many SF voters (or SDLP voters for that matter) that are going to transfer are going to have a unionist as their second preference?
I'll have the UUP before SF
I might do too.
I think some (a lot?) of SDLP voters with an abhorrence of any links to violence would rather vote for the DUP than SF. First motion in any nationalist organisation being the split and all that comes into effect also.
No, forced to decide I'd always have SF over DUP and the DUP ahead of TUV. I believe in the moderates and the lesser of two ills.
This is probably the first election ever where I'd favour UUP over SF for a 2nd preference vote but that was the days before a formal opposition at Stormont and the evidence that some UUP voters would vote SDLP ahead of DUP. As the old adage tells us "My enemy's enemy is my friend."
I'm seriously considering ditching the main parties and voting Green or Independent. If someone set up a common sense party tomorrow I would vote for them. Some amount of people do nothing but complain and then vote the same people/parties in time and time again.
On a separate note I don't think I could ever transfer to either UP.
Common sense party.......if only........don't think I will bother voting and I hate saying that......can't see anything other than the status quo as the alternatives aren't having a good campaign. .....Just pAy my taxes sit back and watch them being squandered.......
Don't see how anyone could vote Unionist ahead of SF/DUP. If you find violence abhorrent vote for a party of pacifists (that would exclude the main four). Personally would vote Greens if they stood in my constituency which they don't so I vote SF
It's all gone very quiet on RHI. Shinners working a wee backroom deal with the DUP?
Why such apathy for alliance. If you want a move away from non sectarian politics then surely alliance would suffice as move in the right direction.
Quote from: Rois on February 15, 2017, 08:09:18 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 15, 2017, 07:29:08 PM
To be fair, how many SF voters (or SDLP voters for that matter) that are going to transfer are going to have a unionist as their second preference?
I'll have the UUP before SF
+1
It's quite simple. If you believe that the government parties of DUP-SF have been doing a poor job over the period of the last 10 years, 5 years or 8 months then vote for the opposition parties in the way you believe that will be best to work against DUP-SF. DUP-SF have largely controlled the government even when other parties took one of the ministries allocated to them because both parties controlled the purse strings and turned funding on or off to the minority parties as they decided, e.g. McGimpsey suffered in Health and Kennedy was destroyed in what is now Infrastructure. DUP-SF fed their own ministries as they wanted with additional funding from the funding reviews each 4 months and starved the others. So DUP-SF have to be considered as a block and the government. So, if you want to change government vote in a way that could make change if enough others put some thought into the use of their voting pattern in each constituency.
This voting preference will depend on your constituency. Nesbitt and Eastwood should have been giving this clear advice to the voters. Vote management in this election across the opposition parties will allow a small chip away from the DUP-SF block and give encouragement to electors in future elections. First issue to address is turnout. Strong performances by DUP-SF are discouraging turnout as voters see no hope of effecting change and take the easy option of not voting.
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 16, 2017, 12:14:15 AM
It's quite simple. If you believe that the government parties of DUP-SF have been doing a poor job over the period of the last 10 years, 5 years or 8 months then vote for the opposition parties in the way you believe that will be best to work against DUP-SF. DUP-SF have largely controlled the government even when other parties took one of the ministries allocated to them because both parties controlled the purse strings and turned funding on or off to the minority parties as they decided, e.g. McGimpsey suffered in Health and Kennedy was destroyed in what is now Infrastructure. DUP-SF fed their own ministries as they wanted with additional funding from the funding reviews each 4 months and starved the others. So DUP-SF have to be considered as a block and the government. So, if you want to change government vote in a way that could make change if enough others put some thought into the use of their voting pattern in each constituency.
This voting preference will depend on your constituency. Nesbitt and Eastwood should have been giving this clear advice to the voters. Vote management in this election across the opposition parties will allow a small chip away from the DUP-SF block and give encouragement to electors in future elections. First issue to address is turnout. Strong performances by DUP-SF are discouraging turnout as voters see no hope of effecting change and take the easy option of not voting.
Ordinarily, there is a lot to be said for this analysis. However, IMHO Brexit does not make this ordinary times. While May and Brokenshire will not give a veto to the Assembly, there is no doubt that their job is made easier if the Assembly cannot manage to actually agree that there is a problem. Consequently, I think it is important to have a majority in the Assembly to reflect majority opinion that some sort of special deal for NI is essential to reflect its geography. The UU identified Brexit as threat to peace in the referendum, but have now plumped for flying the fleg and have supported it every since, without qualification. The PBP treated the whole thing like a debate in QUB, rather than as a serious political issue and you now have McCann hypocritically sounding off about the border when he supported Brexit despite everyone telling him this might happen. SF did not campaign re Brexit and haven't a great record on EU matters, but at least they seem tuned in at this stage. So I think people should first and foremost vote for an Assembly that will at least oppose a non agreed Brexit and this is worth turning out to vote for. So SF/SDLP-Alliance-Greens and only then UU.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 16, 2017, 09:50:09 AM
SF did not campaign re Brexit and haven't a great record on EU matters, but at least they seem tuned in at this stage.
Not only did they not campaign against Brexit but they failed to collect £10,000 by not registering as a party campaigning against the exit from the EU and this was highlighted yesterday in the Dail.
Not campaigning against Brexit will soon become apparent as an own goal by SF. It will results in a continuing fall in the turnout of their previous voters. It was an opportunity to get on the doorsteps to explain their case and mobilise their support. Apathy is growing fast. A successful referendum campaign would have provided a proper slap for their DUP partners and brought in a result similar to Scotland. It could have given a springboard now for a further campaign against the DUP.
Whats this all about then?
'Sinn Féin to campaign against Brexit in EU referendum'
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%C3%A9in-to-campaign-against-brexit-in-eu-referendum-1.2476720
And this?
'Sinn Féin launches campaign against UK Brexit'
http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0603/793106-brexit-campaign/
Quote from: AQMP on February 16, 2017, 09:58:27 AM
DUP spent less than £90,000 on the Assembly Election last May but spent £250,000 on Brexit campaign
http://sluggerotoole.com/2017/02/16/where-did-the-dup-get-250k-for-that-brexit-metro-wrap-around-answer-ni-law-says-they-dont-have-to-tell-us/
THis flow of money to the DUP is very suspicious, none of the money they spent was their own.
Quote from: haranguerer on February 16, 2017, 11:22:58 AM
Whats this all about then?
'Sinn Féin to campaign against Brexit in EU referendum'
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%C3%A9in-to-campaign-against-brexit-in-eu-referendum-1.2476720
And this?
'Sinn Féin launches campaign against UK Brexit'
http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0603/793106-brexit-campaign/
None the less they did not register as a party for the Brexit compaign and get the £10,000 available.
They also didn't really put the work in on the ground, as evidenced by turnout.
Whether or not they collected £10k, or the effectiveness of their campaign are both moot points - the statement was that they didn't campaign against Brexit - the sources I've quoted say they did. Which is it?
Have you ever heard the term, lip-service?
I'll take that as an acknowledgement that you were talking shite
Quote from: armaghniac on February 16, 2017, 09:50:09 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 16, 2017, 12:14:15 AM
It's quite simple. If you believe that the government parties of DUP-SF have been doing a poor job over the period of the last 10 years, 5 years or 8 months then vote for the opposition parties in the way you believe that will be best to work against DUP-SF. DUP-SF have largely controlled the government even when other parties took one of the ministries allocated to them because both parties controlled the purse strings and turned funding on or off to the minority parties as they decided, e.g. McGimpsey suffered in Health and Kennedy was destroyed in what is now Infrastructure. DUP-SF fed their own ministries as they wanted with additional funding from the funding reviews each 4 months and starved the others. So DUP-SF have to be considered as a block and the government. So, if you want to change government vote in a way that could make change if enough others put some thought into the use of their voting pattern in each constituency.
This voting preference will depend on your constituency. Nesbitt and Eastwood should have been giving this clear advice to the voters. Vote management in this election across the opposition parties will allow a small chip away from the DUP-SF block and give encouragement to electors in future elections. First issue to address is turnout. Strong performances by DUP-SF are discouraging turnout as voters see no hope of effecting change and take the easy option of not voting.
Ordinarily, there is a lot to be said for this analysis. However, IMHO Brexit does not make this ordinary times. While May and Brokenshire will not give a veto to the Assembly, there is no doubt that their job is made easier if the Assembly cannot manage to actually agree that there is a problem. Consequently, I think it is important to have a majority in the Assembly to reflect majority opinion that some sort of special deal for NI is essential to reflect its geography. The UU identified Brexit as threat to peace in the referendum, but have now plumped for flying the fleg and have supported it every since, without qualification. The PBP treated the whole thing like a debate in QUB, rather than as a serious political issue and you now have McCann hypocritically sounding off about the border when he supported Brexit despite everyone telling him this might happen. SF did not campaign re Brexit and haven't a great record on EU matters, but at least they seem tuned in at this stage. So I think people should first and foremost vote for an Assembly that will at least oppose a non agreed Brexit and this is worth turning out to vote for. So SF/SDLP-Alliance-Greens and only then UU.
It's not just Brexit that make it not Business as usual.
The economic system is dying. The UK is one of the most heavily exposed economies to the dying system so the upheaval is amongst the greatest.
https://mronline.org/2006/06/19/on-neoliberalism-an-interview-with-david-harvey/
"SL: You write that a fundamental feature of neoliberalism is the disciplining and disempowerment of the working class. Paul Volcker, who headed up the Federal Reserve first under Carter and then under Reagan, played a pivotal role in doing this in the United States. Describe for us the conditions in the US in the 1970s -- the array of class forces, so to speak, at that time -- and how Paul Volcker played a crucial role in shifting the balance of power.
, that is, the loss of manufacturing jobs. It was a slow process and in many areas of. What Paul Volcker did in 1979 was to reverse that, to say, we're no longer interested in full employment; what we're interested in is control of inflation. He brought inflation down quite savagely in about three or four years, but in the process he generated massive unemployment. And massive unemployment of course was disempowering for workers and at the same time the deindustrialization that I mentioned accelerated. So there was quite a massive loss of industrial jobs, manufacturing jobs, in the early 1980s. And of course that means less union power. If you close down the shipyards and the steel industry lays off people, then you have fewer people in the unions. The loss of jobs in the unionized sector disempowered the unions at the same time unemployment was rising; unemployment disciplines the labor force to accept lower paying jobs if necessary. So Volcker's shift away from full employment strategy at the Federal Reserve to control inflation, no matter what the impact on unemployment, was a major shift in public policy and which we stil implement.
I think what happened in the 1970s is that when the neoliberal move came in, the idea erupted that, okay, neoliberalism will give you individual liberty and freedom, but you just have to forget social justice and you just have to forget environmental sustainability and all the rest of it. Just think about individual liberty and freedom in particular, and we're going to meet your desires and your interests through the individual liberties of market choice -- freedom of the market is what it's all about. In a sense, there was a response by neoliberals to the sixties movement by saying, we can respond to that aspect about what the sixties was about, but we cannot respond to that other aspect. And I think therefore what we see is a movement in the 1970s where many people who were active in the 1960s were co-opted into the neoliberal train of thinking and neoliberal ways of consumerism as part of how neoliberalization established itself. It is a very broad way of looking at it, but I tend to think that that is what happened. That then leaves us with the question right now, what are we going to do about social justice, what are we going to do about equality, what are we are going to do about environmental sustainability, all those things that neoliberalism cannot confront. "
Quote from: haranguerer on February 16, 2017, 12:09:44 PM
I'll take that as an acknowledgement that you were talking shite
I'm a SF voter but I think there was a certain amount of it as lip service. They took the risk (correctly in my view) that the 6C and Scotland voting to remain while the English voted to leave would drive wedges in the 'union', boost nationalism and move the border to Holyhead, Heathrow and Heysham. Time will tell if that risk will pay off. I think it will.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 16, 2017, 12:32:07 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on February 16, 2017, 12:09:44 PM
I'll take that as an acknowledgement that you were talking shite
I'm a SF voter but I think there was a certain amount of it as lip service. They took the risk (correctly in my view) that the 6C and Scotland voting to remain while the English voted to leave would drive wedges in the 'union', boost nationalism and move the border to Holyhead, Heathrow and Heysham. Time will tell if that risk will pay off. I think it will.
This is all very fine, but NIs would have been supported by the high remain vote, which it did not get largely because SF voters did not bother to vote. We are now in a very dangerous period and it isn't clear if SF have a good plan to ensure the border is at Cairnryan and not Culloville.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 16, 2017, 01:56:41 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 16, 2017, 12:32:07 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on February 16, 2017, 12:09:44 PM
I'll take that as an acknowledgement that you were talking shite
I'm a SF voter but I think there was a certain amount of it as lip service. They took the risk (correctly in my view) that the 6C and Scotland voting to remain while the English voted to leave would drive wedges in the 'union', boost nationalism and move the border to Holyhead, Heathrow and Heysham. Time will tell if that risk will pay off. I think it will.
This is all very fine, but NIs would have been supported by the high remain vote, which it did not get largely because SF voters did not bother to vote. We are now in a very dangerous period and it isn't clear if SF have a good plan to ensure the border is at Cairnryan and not Culloville.
Where can the evidence of this be found?
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 16, 2017, 02:12:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 16, 2017, 01:56:41 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 16, 2017, 12:32:07 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on February 16, 2017, 12:09:44 PM
I'll take that as an acknowledgement that you were talking shite
I'm a SF voter but I think there was a certain amount of it as lip service. They took the risk (correctly in my view) that the 6C and Scotland voting to remain while the English voted to leave would drive wedges in the 'union', boost nationalism and move the border to Holyhead, Heathrow and Heysham. Time will tell if that risk will pay off. I think it will.
This is all very fine, but NIs would have been supported by the high remain vote, which it did not get largely because SF voters did not bother to vote. We are now in a very dangerous period and it isn't clear if SF have a good plan to ensure the border is at Cairnryan and not Culloville.
Where can the evidence of this be found?
West Belfast had the lowest turnout of any constituency in the UK and two thirds of people there vote SF.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2017, 10:37:15 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on February 14, 2017, 09:55:53 PM
I will be voting but lets say a miracle happens and SF are voted in as the largest party what do people think would happen....thats right straight to direct rule thats what. Unionists will never accept a nationalist majority and that is why a shared government will never work here.
SF being the biggest party is unlikely, and IMHO would not be helpful at this point. I think a period when unionists do not have a majority and the balance of power is held by Alliance/Greens etc would be less likely to break the whole thing.
There is the crux it would not be helpful lest it offend unionist sensibilities, ffs it is time unionists wised up to the notion of equality not being a threat. Nationalist controlled councils treat unionist a lot more fair than unionist treat Nationalists.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 16, 2017, 02:32:56 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 16, 2017, 02:12:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 16, 2017, 01:56:41 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 16, 2017, 12:32:07 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on February 16, 2017, 12:09:44 PM
I'll take that as an acknowledgement that you were talking shite
I'm a SF voter but I think there was a certain amount of it as lip service. They took the risk (correctly in my view) that the 6C and Scotland voting to remain while the English voted to leave would drive wedges in the 'union', boost nationalism and move the border to Holyhead, Heathrow and Heysham. Time will tell if that risk will pay off. I think it will.
This is all very fine, but NIs would have been supported by the high remain vote, which it did not get largely because SF voters did not bother to vote. We are now in a very dangerous period and it isn't clear if SF have a good plan to ensure the border is at Cairnryan and not Culloville.
Where can the evidence of this be found?
West Belfast had the lowest turnout of any constituency in the UK and two thirds of people there vote SF.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-36616830
Bit disingenuous there, you picked the outlier amongst the SF heartlands. As far as I can tell turnout was much higher in nearly all other green constituencies compared to the assembly elections.. West Tyrone, Newry, mid ulster etc.q
Quote from: armaghniac on February 16, 2017, 02:32:56 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 16, 2017, 02:12:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 16, 2017, 01:56:41 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on February 16, 2017, 12:32:07 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on February 16, 2017, 12:09:44 PM
I'll take that as an acknowledgement that you were talking shite
I'm a SF voter but I think there was a certain amount of it as lip service. They took the risk (correctly in my view) that the 6C and Scotland voting to remain while the English voted to leave would drive wedges in the 'union', boost nationalism and move the border to Holyhead, Heathrow and Heysham. Time will tell if that risk will pay off. I think it will.
This is all very fine, but NIs would have been supported by the high remain vote, which it did not get largely because SF voters did not bother to vote. We are now in a very dangerous period and it isn't clear if SF have a good plan to ensure the border is at Cairnryan and not Culloville.
Where can the evidence of this be found?
West Belfast had the lowest turnout of any constituency in the UK and two thirds of people there vote SF.
That would be a no then.
Remind me again PBP's position on Brexit?
Quote from: omagh_gael on February 16, 2017, 03:14:34 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-36616830
Bit disingenuous there, you picked the outlier amongst the SF heartlands. As far as I can tell turnout was much higher in nearly all other green constituencies compared to the assembly elections.. West Tyrone, Newry, mid ulster etc.q
Is this as a result of the SF machine, or the people in these places taking more interest? The Westies don't give a damn about the border, it seems.
The margin of the result in the north has absolutely no bearing on how strongly the result here can be defended. Brexiteers can hardly point to it given the overall margin they're defending.
I would have thought the main issue SF had with Brexit was the potential for the end of the peace funding and other EU funding their various rackets survive on. There would be a few party activists & family members on an egg less
Fcuk me but Arlene is one spiteful, hateful bitch.
She is struggling - everyone is against her.
Quote from: Rois on February 16, 2017, 09:32:46 PM
She is struggling - everyone is against her.
Everyone isn't half enough.
What a shambles of a debate! Shouting over each other, no structure and the chair got walked over!!
As for Arlene - unbelievable the bigotry and clear attempt to appeal to Orangeman. Desperation possibly - scaremongering didn't work for Brexit or US elections!
http://www.itv.com/news/utv/update/2017-02-16/utvs-election-debate-ni-leaders-go-head-to-head/
The flip side of her dire warnings is that Arlene is basically campaigning for the Shinners when she mentions what a SF 1st place would mean.
Mike Nesbitt is very smooth compared to Arlene. Must be the TV career.
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2017, 10:29:02 PM
The flip side of her dire warnings is that Arlene is basically campaigning for the Shinners when she mentions what a SF 1st place would mean.
Arlene and the DUP need SF more than anyone else in N.Ireland to ensure that they are able to mobilise their hardcore vote and other unionists with the same siege mentality. Adams is the best electoral weapon of the DUP.
Both the DUP and SF use the same tactics to mobilise their support - get out and vote for us or themums will over run us, take our homes and destroy our livelihoods. No need for policies on health, education or jobs.
;D You're getting beyond parody typ
(http://i.imgur.com/Qz6W1yC.jpg)
Interesting typ - seems Mike will benefit more from the SDLP statement than Colum will, maybe hes not so slow after all
Interesting debate that illustrated the dearth of intellect in the body politic of the wee 6. Compared to Conor Murphy Michelle O'Neill is light weight. The whole Adams anointment thing is sickening as well. The Tyrone twang is also annoying. Eastwood is clueless, Mike all show and Arelene played the bogeyman card.
Fairly enjoyed the View last night Mark Carruthers is an excellent interviewer and had Arlene tied up in knots from the start.
It doesn't matter who the DUP put out ultimately the fact it's one of their own and not themmuns will swing it.
The DUP base will still be there as it always was but they are bound to be losing the younger vote. The youth are a lot more informed nowadays and when the DUP's elder demographic pass on they are going to get nailed to the cross with their stance on pro choice/LGBTQ and the fact they are utterly incompetent in Government.
By the looks of things they will be grand this election but Mike TV should sow up the younger/moderate Unionists which may stand to them in the years to come.
Big Arnie was a total disgrace on the View last night with Mark Curruthers ... she's one horrible aul twisted hoor..
Newton Emerson & yer blade (cant remember her name) basically said it was the most pathetic interview ever ... its really worth a watch... especially the second half of the interview.. fair play to him, he really gets stuck in.. mind you, its an easy task, theres plenty of ammo..
As for the debate on UTV .. why oh why does no one seem to be bringing up the "incredibly important" fact that the Newsletter printed proof that civil servants in fact DID tell her way back in 2013 that there were flaws and pointed every one of them out .. its all there in black & white ..
You'd think that after her saying constantly that "no one told me" (pathetic excuse anyway for a minister) and her party members all saying the same, you'd think this would be sorta important .. yet no one feckin mentions it .. or if they do they're not mentioning it enough ... I really cant understand that :-/
Quote from: hardstation on February 17, 2017, 11:36:37 AM
Ah, there used to be a time on this board when everything turned into Tyrone v Armagh. Alas, with the demise (albeit different levels of demise) of both counties in Gaelic football, the rivalry had seemed to dry up. Refreshing to see the position of Sinn Fein leader in the north has stoked old fires and Tymoanies & Apple Chompers pulling for their own homeboy irrespective of how ludicrous it appears to outsiders.
Conor Murphy for Pope. Michelle O'Neill for doing the dishes.
Ah if only you were witty ::)
Quote from: hardstation on February 17, 2017, 11:36:37 AM
Ah, there used to be a time on this board when everything turned into Tyrone v Armagh. Alas, with the demise (albeit different levels of demise) of both counties in Gaelic football, the rivalry had seemed to dry up. Refreshing to see the position of Sinn Fein leader in the north has stoked old fires and Tymoanies & Apple Chompers pulling for their own homeboy irrespective of how ludicrous it appears to outsiders.
Conor Murphy for Pope. Michelle O'Neill for doing the dishes.
Only if Gerry appoints her to dishwashing duties.
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 11:51:36 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 17, 2017, 11:36:37 AM
Ah, there used to be a time on this board when everything turned into Tyrone v Armagh. Alas, with the demise (albeit different levels of demise) of both counties in Gaelic football, the rivalry had seemed to dry up. Refreshing to see the position of Sinn Fein leader in the north has stoked old fires and Tymoanies & Apple Chompers pulling for their own homeboy irrespective of how ludicrous it appears to outsiders.
Conor Murphy for Pope. Michelle O'Neill for doing the dishes.
Only if Gerry appoints her to dishwashing duties.
You have it bad for SF :o .. who would you support TYP ?
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 11:57:33 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 11:51:36 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 17, 2017, 11:36:37 AM
Ah, there used to be a time on this board when everything turned into Tyrone v Armagh. Alas, with the demise (albeit different levels of demise) of both counties in Gaelic football, the rivalry had seemed to dry up. Refreshing to see the position of Sinn Fein leader in the north has stoked old fires and Tymoanies & Apple Chompers pulling for their own homeboy irrespective of how ludicrous it appears to outsiders.
Conor Murphy for Pope. Michelle O'Neill for doing the dishes.
Only if Gerry appoints her to dishwashing duties.
You have it bad for SF :o .. who would you support TYP ?
I agree with TYP. If Adams stayed with from Twitter, Cameras, Microphones and journalists then the DUP would struggle. But poor old Gerry just cannot help himself.
Quote from: Orior on February 17, 2017, 01:06:04 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 11:57:33 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 11:51:36 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 17, 2017, 11:36:37 AM
Ah, there used to be a time on this board when everything turned into Tyrone v Armagh. Alas, with the demise (albeit different levels of demise) of both counties in Gaelic football, the rivalry had seemed to dry up. Refreshing to see the position of Sinn Fein leader in the north has stoked old fires and Tymoanies & Apple Chompers pulling for their own homeboy irrespective of how ludicrous it appears to outsiders.
Conor Murphy for Pope. Michelle O'Neill for doing the dishes.
Only if Gerry appoints her to dishwashing duties.
You have it bad for SF :o .. who would you support TYP ?
I agree with TYP. If Adams stayed with from Twitter, Cameras, Microphones and journalists then the DUP would struggle. But poor old Gerry just cannot help himself.
No they wouldnt .. they just pick another bogyman ... But lets face it .... pin a DUP badge on a dead monkey and the silly feckers would still vote for it :-(
The DUP and SF exist in a mutualistic symbiotic relationship.
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 01:28:42 PM
The DUP and SF exist in a mutualistic symbiotic relationship.
possibly but who would you vote for ?
Quote from: hardstation on February 17, 2017, 01:57:20 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 01:22:53 PM
Quote from: Orior on February 17, 2017, 01:06:04 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 11:57:33 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 11:51:36 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 17, 2017, 11:36:37 AM
Ah, there used to be a time on this board when everything turned into Tyrone v Armagh. Alas, with the demise (albeit different levels of demise) of both counties in Gaelic football, the rivalry had seemed to dry up. Refreshing to see the position of Sinn Fein leader in the north has stoked old fires and Tymoanies & Apple Chompers pulling for their own homeboy irrespective of how ludicrous it appears to outsiders.
Conor Murphy for Pope. Michelle O'Neill for doing the dishes.
Only if Gerry appoints her to dishwashing duties.
You have it bad for SF :o .. who would you support TYP ?
I agree with TYP. If Adams stayed with from Twitter, Cameras, Microphones and journalists then the DUP would struggle. But poor old Gerry just cannot help himself.
No they wouldnt .. they just pick another bogyman ... But lets face it .... pin a DUP badge on a dead monkey and the silly feckers would still vote for it :-(
The exact same can be said about Sinn Fein.
I believe that to be one of the most annoying things about politics in NI .... This constant & ubiquitous "they're both as bad as each other" nonsense is simply not true...
I vote SF but have only done so since the peace process and after SF wedded themselves to non violence .. same as most SF voters actually .. I would NOT vote for them ever again if they were at the same crap (no need to list them as everyone knows) as the DUP .. no chance ..and Im fairly sure most normal minded people would be the same ... unfortunately the vast majority of DUP voters dont think like that ... sad but true Im afraid :-[
No doubt there are plenty of SF voters who would be the same as most DUP voters .. i.e. ye get the vote no matter what you do ...
What Im saying is, you get a much higher percentage of that with DUP voters ... would you not agree?
The other point not to forget is that this cant really be challenged as SF have not been at anywhere near the same level of nonsense that the DUP have ... Would you agree with that ?
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 01:39:46 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 01:28:42 PM
The DUP and SF exist in a mutualistic symbiotic relationship.
possibly but who would you vote for ?
I wouldn't vote for either of them. Both are politically corrupt in the same sense as the larger parties in the Republic have showed themselves to be over many years.
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 03:21:56 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 01:39:46 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 01:28:42 PM
The DUP and SF exist in a mutualistic symbiotic relationship.
possibly but who would you vote for ?
I wouldn't vote for either of them. Both are politically corrupt in the same sense as the larger parties in the Republic have showed themselves to be over many years.
Are you saying SF are every bit as corrupt as the DUP ?
and if so, how ?
As far as I can see, SF have bent over backwards to make this work .. the DUP have went out of their way to make it difficult .. and thats not even taking into account their incompetence & corruption..
Didn't Sinn Fein appoint Mary McArdle as a SPAD?
Daithi McKay involved in coaching Bryson at the Nama inquiry. Maybe not as bad as the DUP but as a joint government the both of them have failed to deliver.
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 04:24:43 PM
Didn't Sinn Fein appoint Mary McArdle as a SPAD?
Daithi McKay involved in coaching Bryson at the Nama inquiry. Maybe not as bad as the DUP but as a joint government the both of them have failed to deliver.
"Maybe" not as bad .... Its not even in the same galaxy !!
and didnt Daithi McKay resign .. FFS ::)
If the Shinners had been involved in a 1/10 of what the DUP had there would have been all hell to pay ... and their vote would certainly have suffered.. big time!
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 04:31:32 PM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 04:24:43 PM
Didn't Sinn Fein appoint Mary McArdle as a SPAD?
Daithi McKay involved in coaching Bryson at the Nama inquiry. Maybe not as bad as the DUP but as a joint government the both of them have failed to deliver.
"Maybe" not as bad .... Its not even in the same galaxy !!
and didnt Daithi McKay resign .. FFS ::)
If the Shinners had been involved in a 1/10 of what the DUP had there would have been all hell to pay ... and their vote would certainly have suffered..
Appointing a SPAD convicted of murdering an innocent woman isn't in the same galaxy - ::)
Why doesn't she get that fecking brooch tatooed to her forehead?
It's never off.
Quote from: AQMP on February 17, 2017, 04:49:36 PM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 04:33:05 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 04:31:32 PM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 04:24:43 PM
Didn't Sinn Fein appoint Mary McArdle as a SPAD?
Daithi McKay involved in coaching Bryson at the Nama inquiry. Maybe not as bad as the DUP but as a joint government the both of them have failed to deliver.
"Maybe" not as bad .... Its not even in the same galaxy !!
and didnt Daithi McKay resign .. FFS ::)
If the Shinners had been involved in a 1/10 of what the DUP had there would have been all hell to pay ... and their vote would certainly have suffered..
Appointing a SPAD convicted of murdering an innocent schoolgirl isn't in the same galaxy - ::)
Just a point of info...Mary Travers was a 22 year old teacher when she was shot, not a schoolgirl
Happy to amend my original post but the point is still the same.
Arlene's fairy stories for Protestant children
Once upon a time there were three little protestant pigs. One protestant pig built a house of straw while the second protestant pig built his house with sticks. They built their houses very quickly and then sang and danced all day because they were in the Orange Order and it was July . The third little protestant pig worked hard all day and built his house with bricks.
Gerry Adams saw the two little protestant pigs while they danced and played and thought, "What lovely citizens of a united Ireland they will make!"
One day, Little Red white and blue Riding Hood's mother said to her, "Take this basket of goodies to your grandma's cottage, but don't talk to strangers on the way!" Promising not to, Little Red white and blue Riding Hood skipped off. On her way she met Gerry Adams who asked, "Dia dhuit, ca bhfuil tu ag dul a chailin ?" "To my grandma's, Mr. Adams !" she answered.
Gerry Adams then ran to her grandmother's cottage much before Little Red white and blue Riding Hood, and knocked on the door. When Grandma opened the door, he locked her up in the closet. Gerry Adams then wore Grandma's clothes and lay on her bed, waiting for Little Red white and blue Riding Hood. When Little Red white and blue Riding Hood reached the cottage, she entered and went to Grandma's bedside. "My! What big eyes you have, Grandma!" she said in surprise. "All the better to see a united Ireland , my dear!" replied the wolf. "My! What big ears you have, Grandma!" said Little Red white and blue Riding Hood. "All the better to hear the voters , my dear!" said Adams. "What big voter numbers you have, Grandma!" said Little Red Riding Hood. "All the better to gobble Norn Irn up with " growled Adams, pouncing on her. Little Red white and blue Riding Hood screamed and the Orange marchers in the forest came running to the cottage. They beat Gerry Adams and rescued Grandma from the closet but they left the gay people in there. Grandma hugged Little Red white and blue Riding Hood with joy. Big Bad Adams ran away never to be seen again. Little Red white and blue Riding Hood had learnt her lesson and never spoke to nationalists ever again.
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 04:33:05 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 04:31:32 PM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 04:24:43 PM
Didn't Sinn Fein appoint Mary McArdle as a SPAD?
Daithi McKay involved in coaching Bryson at the Nama inquiry. Maybe not as bad as the DUP but as a joint government the both of them have failed to deliver.
"Maybe" not as bad .... Its not even in the same galaxy !!
and didnt Daithi McKay resign .. FFS ::)
If the Shinners had been involved in a 1/10 of what the DUP had there would have been all hell to pay ... and their vote would certainly have suffered..
Appointing a SPAD convicted of murdering an innocent woman isn't in the same galaxy - ::)
Ah well if you're going to go back to before the peace deal then why not kick it all off with Strongbow, the penal laws or maybe just harp on about 50 years of the old "protestant state for a protestant people" stormont or maybe Paisley and the various organisations he and his fellow DUPers were involved in and the pleasant characters they were frequently associated with .. FFS ::)
The point that many unionists & obviously you, seem to forget is that we are where we are .. i.e. in the here and now .. its a better place for it and incompetence & corruption NOW is not helping ...
You must be in the "hold your nose" category re SF ... thats whats got us to where we are right now .. well, that and DUP Incompetence & corruption
Do you not get that ?
Quote from: seafoid on February 17, 2017, 05:01:23 PM
Arlene's fairy stories for Protestant children
Once upon a time there were three little protestant pigs. One protestant pig built a house of straw while the second protestant pig built his house with sticks. They built their houses very quickly and then sang and danced all day because they were in the Orange Order and it was July . The third little protestant pig worked hard all day and built his house with bricks.
Gerry Adams saw the two little protestant pigs while they danced and played and thought, "What lovely citizens of a united Ireland they will make!"
One day, Little Red white and blue Riding Hood's mother said to her, "Take this basket of goodies to your grandma's cottage, but don't talk to strangers on the way!" Promising not to, Little Red white and blue Riding Hood skipped off. On her way she met Gerry Adams who asked, "Dia dhuit, ca bhfuil tu ag dul a chailin ?" "To my grandma's, Mr. Adams !" she answered.
Gerry Adams then ran to her grandmother's cottage much before Little Red white and blue Riding Hood, and knocked on the door. When Grandma opened the door, he locked her up in the closet. Gerry Adams then wore Grandma's clothes and lay on her bed, waiting for Little Red white and blue Riding Hood. When Little Red white and blue Riding Hood reached the cottage, she entered and went to Grandma's bedside. "My! What big eyes you have, Grandma!" she said in surprise. "All the better to see a united Ireland , my dear!" replied the wolf. "My! What big ears you have, Grandma!" said Little Red white and blue Riding Hood. "All the better to hear the voters , my dear!" said Adams. "What big voter numbers you have, Grandma!" said Little Red Riding Hood. "All the better to gobble Norn Irn up with " growled Adams, pouncing on her. Little Red white and blue Riding Hood screamed and the Orange marchers in the forest came running to the cottage. They beat Gerry Adams and rescued Grandma from the closet but they left the gay people in there. Grandma hugged Little Red white and blue Riding Hood with joy. Big Bad Adams ran away never to be seen again. Little Red white and blue Riding Hood had learnt her lesson and never spoke to nationalists ever again.
lol .. little Red White & Blue riding hood ... I like it :)
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 05:53:14 PM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 04:33:05 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 04:31:32 PM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 04:24:43 PM
Didn't Sinn Fein appoint Mary McArdle as a SPAD?
Daithi McKay involved in coaching Bryson at the Nama inquiry. Maybe not as bad as the DUP but as a joint government the both of them have failed to deliver.
"Maybe" not as bad .... Its not even in the same galaxy !!
and didnt Daithi McKay resign .. FFS ::)
If the Shinners had been involved in a 1/10 of what the DUP had there would have been all hell to pay ... and their vote would certainly have suffered..
Appointing a SPAD convicted of murdering an innocent woman isn't in the same galaxy - ::)
Ah well if you're going to go back to before the peace deal then why not kick it all off with Strongbow, the penal laws or maybe just harp on about 50 years of the old "protestant state for a protestant people" stormont or maybe Paisley and the various organisations he and his fellow DUPers were involved in and the pleasant characters they were frequently associated with .. FFS ::)
The point that many unionists & obviously you, seem to forget is that we are where we are .. i.e. in the here and now .. its a better place for it and incompetence & corruption NOW is not helping ...
You must be in the "hold your nose" category re SF ... thats whats got us to where we are right now .. well, that and DUP Incompetence & corruption
Do you not get that ?
Its not going back before the peace deal. It was only a few years ago mcardle was appointed as a SPAD. I am far from someone who wants to hold their nose...I have previously voted for Sinn Fein. However I'm sick of two parties in government who squabble like children and dont want to work together.
IMO its time to give someone else ago instead of voting alone green and orange lines. Do you not get that?
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 06:45:16 PM
(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7739/1209/1600/israelgun.jpg)
Quote from: foxcommander on February 17, 2017, 07:02:57 PM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 06:45:16 PM
(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7739/1209/1600/israelgun.jpg)
And the point of this photo is? Want me to go and dig one out of Marty holding a gun from back in the midst of the troubles.
Im talking about the appointment of someone just a few years ago well after the 98 peace agreement convicted of murdering an innocent catholic woman in cold blood to a top position at the heart of government on circa 60-90k a year of public money. If you dont think that's wrong its as pathetic as the hard core dup votes imo
Quote from: seafoid on February 17, 2017, 05:01:23 PM
Arlene's fairy stories for Protestant children
Once upon a time there were three little protestant pigs. One protestant pig built a house of straw while the second protestant pig built his house with sticks. They built their houses very quickly and then sang and danced all day because they were in the Orange Order and it was July . The third little protestant pig worked hard all day and built his house with bricks.
Gerry Adams saw the two little protestant pigs while they danced and played and thought, "What lovely citizens of a united Ireland they will make!"
One day, Little Red white and blue Riding Hood's mother said to her, "Take this basket of goodies to your grandma's cottage, but don't talk to strangers on the way!" Promising not to, Little Red white and blue Riding Hood skipped off. On her way she met Gerry Adams who asked, "Dia dhuit, ca bhfuil tu ag dul a chailin ?" "To my grandma's, Mr. Adams !" she answered.
Gerry Adams then ran to her grandmother's cottage much before Little Red white and blue Riding Hood, and knocked on the door. When Grandma opened the door, he locked her up in the closet. Gerry Adams then wore Grandma's clothes and lay on her bed, waiting for Little Red white and blue Riding Hood. When Little Red white and blue Riding Hood reached the cottage, she entered and went to Grandma's bedside. "My! What big eyes you have, Grandma!" she said in surprise. "All the better to see a united Ireland , my dear!" replied the wolf. "My! What big ears you have, Grandma!" said Little Red white and blue Riding Hood. "All the better to hear the voters , my dear!" said Adams. "What big voter numbers you have, Grandma!" said Little Red Riding Hood. "All the better to gobble Norn Irn up with " growled Adams, pouncing on her. Little Red white and blue Riding Hood screamed and the Orange marchers in the forest came running to the cottage. They beat Gerry Adams and rescued Grandma from the closet but they left the gay people in there. Grandma hugged Little Red white and blue Riding Hood with joy. Big Bad Adams ran away never to be seen again. Little Red white and blue Riding Hood had learnt her lesson and never spoke to nationalists ever again.
Did you write this yourself?
I just changed the original text. Arlene uses Adams to scare the bejaysus out of voters.
Still posting on ni politics while yours lies in the gutter!!
No input at all
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2017, 08:13:19 PM
Still posting on ni politics while yours lies in the gutter!!
No input at all
I'm drinking as much £5 wine as I can before the price goes up
Quote from: seafoid on February 17, 2017, 08:22:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2017, 08:13:19 PM
Still posting on ni politics while yours lies in the gutter!!
No input at all
I'm drinking as much £5 wine as I can before the price goes up
When it goes up I'll let you know
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2017, 08:13:19 PM
Still posting on ni politics while yours lies in the gutter!!
How partitionist >:(
Last time I looked we have a Government of sorts unlike the 6 North Eastern Counties.
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 03:35:50 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 03:21:56 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 01:39:46 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 01:28:42 PM
The DUP and SF exist in a mutualistic symbiotic relationship.
possibly but who would you vote for ?
I wouldn't vote for either of them. Both are politically corrupt in the same sense as the larger parties in the Republic have showed themselves to be over many years.
Are you saying SF are every bit as corrupt as the DUP ?
and if so, how ?
I suppose you are counting Red Sky, NAMA and RHI as DUP corruption? Yet none have been proved beyond sheer incompetence? Is this correct or do you have other details or evidence of corruption by DUP?
don't worry Hardstation TYP will keep everyone right. His constant bashing of Sinn Fein has become very boring.
Quote from: hardstation on February 17, 2017, 09:52:19 PM
Sinn Fein have had their fair share of scandal over the years too, don't forget. Robert McCartney, Mairia Cahill, Jock Davison, Paul Quinn, Liam Adams etc.
Btw, I'm not a Sinn Fein hater and I do believe that the DUP are a more bigoted, spiteful shower but let's not kid ourselves that the thought process of the average Sinn Fein voter doesn't invertly correlate to the thought process of the average DUP voter.
At least the direction of SF policies is somewhat away from these things, while the DUP just promise use more of the same.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 17, 2017, 08:58:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2017, 08:13:19 PM
Still posting on ni politics while yours lies in the gutter!!
How partitionist >:(
Last time I looked we have a Government of sorts unlike the 6 North Eastern Counties.
No and no, you'd be totally partitionist in my view considering the previous post from you
Are you Syfīn in disguise?
You're making no sense at all.
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 04:31:32 PM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 04:24:43 PM
Didn't Sinn Fein appoint Mary McArdle as a SPAD?
Daithi McKay involved in coaching Bryson at the Nama inquiry. Maybe not as bad as the DUP but as a joint government the both of them have failed to deliver.
"Maybe" not as bad .... Its not even in the same galaxy !!
and didnt Daithi McKay resign .. FFS ::)
If the Shinners had been involved in a 1/10 of what the DUP had there would have been all hell to pay ... and their vote would certainly have suffered.. big time!
As well as that the DUP have links with the Loyalist Paramilitaries that are perhaps stronger than SF's links to the remnants of the Provos, do they get held to account on that? No!
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 09:34:09 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 03:35:50 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 03:21:56 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 01:39:46 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 01:28:42 PM
The DUP and SF exist in a mutualistic symbiotic relationship.
possibly but who would you vote for ?
Catch a grip, Red Sky was corrupt, perhaps more so than the RHI. Throw in links to developers getting planning on contentious sites who give party "donations" and you can see that the DUP have nothing to learn from FF.
I wouldn't vote for either of them. Both are politically corrupt in the same sense as the larger parties in the Republic have showed themselves to be over many years.
Are you saying SF are every bit as corrupt as the DUP ?
and if so, how ?
I suppose you are counting Red Sky, NAMA and RHI as DUP corruption? Yet none have been proved beyond sheer incompetence? Is this correct or do you have other details or evidence of corruption by DUP?
I see pics of Sinn Fein candidates out canvassing in West Tyrone in Club Tyrone jackets...pretty sure no Sinn Fein candidates are members. Cheap tactic.
QuoteI see pics of Sinn Fein members out canvassing in West Tyrone in Club Tyrone jackets...pretty sure no Sinn Fein candidates are members. Cheap tactic.
How would someone know if you were a Sinn Fein member or not, anyone can join Sinn Fein quite easily via the website, and their face will never appear on any election poster or party literature to indicate their membership.
I should have said "candidate" twice instead of once, I meant the candidate.
I'm not too good at this.
The really silly part of this is who would vote for any candidate on the basis that they support their county's GAA team!
You would, ye balax.
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 12, 2017, 12:50:04 PM
They are saying it is OK to vote DUP or TUV as anti-abortion parties as alternatives to others supporting abortion but this ignores the facts that both parties are happy to bring back capital punishment,
This is truely one of the most Bizare paradoxes in modern politics that the pro abortion and pro capital punishment camps seem to be opposite camps. I get that abortion life is innocent but the bottom line is a life is being taken in both cases
Quote from: AQMP on February 20, 2017, 12:12:31 PM
The Irish News carried out a survey of the level of Irish speaking among election candidates. Only 7 considered themselves "fluent" (5 SF and 2 SDLP) and a further 7 were "nearly fluent" (5 SF, 1 SDLP and 1 Alliance - fair play Colm Cavanagh!). Roughly half had no Irish at all. But the most interesting comment is from Newry & Armagh Alliance candidate Jackie Coade. Ms Coade grew up in Cork and responded that she was "discouraged from speaking Irish when she moved to NI" The question is...by whom??
BTW the possible answers to the survey were: Fluent: Nearly Fluent: Conversational: Some Words & Phrases: None
As a rough guide two candidates who have A-Level Irish described their level as "Conversational"
Dont let the truth get in the way of a good old rant.
The sinners were on my door and said two words why you should vote SF, Arlene Foster. That is some campaign - nothing about social care, jobs, education or brexit - numpties the lot of them.
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 06:45:16 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 05:53:14 PM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 04:33:05 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 04:31:32 PM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 04:24:43 PM
Didn't Sinn Fein appoint Mary McArdle as a SPAD?
Daithi McKay involved in coaching Bryson at the Nama inquiry. Maybe not as bad as the DUP but as a joint government the both of them have failed to deliver.
"Maybe" not as bad .... Its not even in the same galaxy !!
and didnt Daithi McKay resign .. FFS ::)
If the Shinners had been involved in a 1/10 of what the DUP had there would have been all hell to pay ... and their vote would certainly have suffered..
Appointing a SPAD convicted of murdering an innocent woman isn't in the same galaxy - ::)
Ah well if you're going to go back to before the peace deal then why not kick it all off with Strongbow, the penal laws or maybe just harp on about 50 years of the old "protestant state for a protestant people" stormont or maybe Paisley and the various organisations he and his fellow DUPers were involved in and the pleasant characters they were frequently associated with .. FFS ::)
The point that many unionists & obviously you, seem to forget is that we are where we are .. i.e. in the here and now .. its a better place for it and incompetence & corruption NOW is not helping ...
You must be in the "hold your nose" category re SF ... thats whats got us to where we are right now .. well, that and DUP Incompetence & corruption
Do you not get that ?
Its not going back before the peace deal. It was only a few years ago mcardle was appointed as a SPAD. I am far from someone who wants to hold their nose...I have previously voted for Sinn Fein. However I'm sick of two parties in government who squabble like children and dont want to work together.
IMO its time to give someone else ago instead of voting alone green and orange lines. Do you not get that?
The shooting was before the peace deal is what I meant ... Look, if you're going to start barring people with a past from certain posts then the peace process wouldnt have heppened in the first place ....
I started voting for SF when the peace broke out and will continue to do so unless they start doing the same sorta sh1t as the DUP, but they arent .. not as far as I can see anyway ...
Marty McGuiness has bent over backwards to try and make it work .. Big Arnie Fister has done the exact opposite .. The DUP are embroiled in several financial scandals ... Sf arent ..... The DUP have to "hold their noses" .. SF dont .. etc....
I really dont see how you can compare the two parties .. this aul bull "They're both as bad as each other" simply isnt true ...
Quote from: No wides on February 20, 2017, 12:51:22 PM
The sinners were on my door and said two words why you should vote SF, Arlene Foster. That is some campaign - nothing about social care, jobs, education or brexit - numpties the lot of them.
And what two words did you reply with?
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 09:34:09 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 03:35:50 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 03:21:56 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 01:39:46 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 01:28:42 PM
The DUP and SF exist in a mutualistic symbiotic relationship.
possibly but who would you vote for ?
I wouldn't vote for either of them. Both are politically corrupt in the same sense as the larger parties in the Republic have showed themselves to be over many years.
Are you saying SF are every bit as corrupt as the DUP ?
and if so, how ?
I suppose you are counting Red Sky, NAMA and RHI as DUP corruption? Yet none have been proved beyond sheer incompetence? Is this correct or do you have other details or evidence of corruption by DUP?
It looks pretty corrupt to me ... what would your guess be ?
.. but even if conclusive proof
cannot is not found, incompetence on this scale is just as harmful ... and its the DUPs doing .. not SF.
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 20, 2017, 01:10:17 PM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 06:45:16 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 05:53:14 PM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 04:33:05 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 04:31:32 PM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 04:24:43 PM
Didn't Sinn Fein appoint Mary McArdle as a SPAD?
Daithi McKay involved in coaching Bryson at the Nama inquiry. Maybe not as bad as the DUP but as a joint government the both of them have failed to deliver.
"Maybe" not as bad .... Its not even in the same galaxy !!
and didnt Daithi McKay resign .. FFS ::)
If the Shinners had been involved in a 1/10 of what the DUP had there would have been all hell to pay ... and their vote would certainly have suffered..
Appointing a SPAD convicted of murdering an innocent woman isn't in the same galaxy - ::)
Ah well if you're going to go back to before the peace deal then why not kick it all off with Strongbow, the penal laws or maybe just harp on about 50 years of the old "protestant state for a protestant people" stormont or maybe Paisley and the various organisations he and his fellow DUPers were involved in and the pleasant characters they were frequently associated with .. FFS ::)
The point that many unionists & obviously you, seem to forget is that we are where we are .. i.e. in the here and now .. its a better place for it and incompetence & corruption NOW is not helping ...
You must be in the "hold your nose" category re SF ... thats whats got us to where we are right now .. well, that and DUP Incompetence & corruption
Do you not get that ?
Its not going back before the peace deal. It was only a few years ago mcardle was appointed as a SPAD. I am far from someone who wants to hold their nose...I have previously voted for Sinn Fein. However I'm sick of two parties in government who squabble like children and dont want to work together.
IMO its time to give someone else ago instead of voting alone green and orange lines. Do you not get that?
The shooting was before the peace deal is what I meant ... Look, if you're going to start barring people with a past from certain posts then the peace process wouldnt have heppened in the first place ....
I started voting for SF when the peace broke out and will continue to do so unless they start doing the same sorta sh1t as the DUP, but they arent .. not as far as I can see anyway ...
Marty McGuiness has bent over backwards to try and make it work .. Big Arnie Fister has done the exact opposite .. The DUP are embroiled in several financial scandals ... Sf arent ..... The DUP have to "hold their noses" .. SF dont .. etc....
I really dont see how you can compare the two parties .. this aul bull "They're both as bad as each other" simply isnt true ...
ok lets look as this aul bull they are both bad - You don't think language such as Michelle Gildernew saying "we'll put manners on Arlene Foster" Gerry - "Equality is the trojan horse to break the b@stards" - you think that is the type of mature stuff you want from political leaders? I think it is childish and I would agree with you I dont think they are as bad as DUP but its clear as day for anyone to see they dont want to, or like working with each other so how can they be expected to run a good government. Time to give the opposition of UUP/SDLP and Alliance a go and see if they can do any better.
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 20, 2017, 01:15:19 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 09:34:09 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 03:35:50 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 03:21:56 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 01:39:46 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 01:28:42 PM
The DUP and SF exist in a mutualistic symbiotic relationship.
possibly but who would you vote for ?
I wouldn't vote for either of them. Both are politically corrupt in the same sense as the larger parties in the Republic have showed themselves to be over many years.
Are you saying SF are every bit as corrupt as the DUP ?
and if so, how ?
I suppose you are counting Red Sky, NAMA and RHI as DUP corruption? Yet none have been proved beyond sheer incompetence? Is this correct or do you have other details or evidence of corruption by DUP?
It looks pretty corrupt to me ... what would your guess be ?
.. but even if conclusive proof cannot is not found, incompetence on this scale is just as harmful ... and its the DUPs doing .. not SF.
The problem lies with providing proof of corruption. Surely if there was proof of corruption in Red Sky or NAMA or Planning Decisions then it would have led to prosecutions or the withdrawal from government by the DUP's partners which did not occur within the mandate in which the complaints of corruption allegedly occurred and not until January 2017 when disrespect was cited by SF as the reason for bringing down the government partnership with DUP after they refused to join a motion of no confidence in the FM.
There is a difference between corruption as a legal offence and the corruption of power which can only be prosecuted in the court of the electorate. However, the Assembly does not provide for this prosecution having any hope of occurring because the electorate cannot vote anyone out of power as it is guaranteed by the system. The issues of which SF ministers have been accused have already been listed above and in some cases have been found guilty through the legal system.
In the 90 seat assembly, how many seats are required to be allocated a ministerial appointment?
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 20, 2017, 01:41:49 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 20, 2017, 01:10:17 PM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 06:45:16 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 05:53:14 PM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 04:33:05 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 04:31:32 PM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 17, 2017, 04:24:43 PM
Didn't Sinn Fein appoint Mary McArdle as a SPAD?
Daithi McKay involved in coaching Bryson at the Nama inquiry. Maybe not as bad as the DUP but as a joint government the both of them have failed to deliver.
"Maybe" not as bad .... Its not even in the same galaxy !!
and didnt Daithi McKay resign .. FFS ::)
If the Shinners had been involved in a 1/10 of what the DUP had there would have been all hell to pay ... and their vote would certainly have suffered..
Appointing a SPAD convicted of murdering an innocent woman isn't in the same galaxy - ::)
Ah well if you're going to go back to before the peace deal then why not kick it all off with Strongbow, the penal laws or maybe just harp on about 50 years of the old "protestant state for a protestant people" stormont or maybe Paisley and the various organisations he and his fellow DUPers were involved in and the pleasant characters they were frequently associated with .. FFS ::)
The point that many unionists & obviously you, seem to forget is that we are where we are .. i.e. in the here and now .. its a better place for it and incompetence & corruption NOW is not helping ...
You must be in the "hold your nose" category re SF ... thats whats got us to where we are right now .. well, that and DUP Incompetence & corruption
Do you not get that ?
Its not going back before the peace deal. It was only a few years ago mcardle was appointed as a SPAD. I am far from someone who wants to hold their nose...I have previously voted for Sinn Fein. However I'm sick of two parties in government who squabble like children and dont want to work together.
IMO its time to give someone else ago instead of voting alone green and orange lines. Do you not get that?
The shooting was before the peace deal is what I meant ... Look, if you're going to start barring people with a past from certain posts then the peace process wouldnt have heppened in the first place ....
I started voting for SF when the peace broke out and will continue to do so unless they start doing the same sorta sh1t as the DUP, but they arent .. not as far as I can see anyway ...
Marty McGuiness has bent over backwards to try and make it work .. Big Arnie Fister has done the exact opposite .. The DUP are embroiled in several financial scandals ... Sf arent ..... The DUP have to "hold their noses" .. SF dont .. etc....
I really dont see how you can compare the two parties .. this aul bull "They're both as bad as each other" simply isnt true ...
ok lets look as this aul bull they are both bad - You don't think language such as Michelle Gildernew saying "we'll put manners on Arlene Foster" Gerry - "Equality is the trojan horse to break the b@stards" - you think that is the type of mature stuff you want from political leaders? I think it is childish and I would agree with you I dont think they are as bad as DUP but its clear as day for anyone to see they dont want to, or like working with each other so how can they be expected to run a good government. Time to give the opposition of UUP/SDLP and Alliance a go and see if they can do any better.
No doubt the shinners do occasionally come out with some stuff thats bordering on stupid and antagonistic .. they should choose their words more carefully but they're arent in the same ballpark as the DUP ....
All you have to do is look/listen to a shinner & DUPer talking and you'll see who wants this to work and who doesnt..
btw - I actually think Naomi Long would be a great fist minister but that aint gonna happen ...
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 20, 2017, 01:44:46 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 20, 2017, 01:15:19 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 09:34:09 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 03:35:50 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 03:21:56 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 17, 2017, 01:39:46 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 17, 2017, 01:28:42 PM
The DUP and SF exist in a mutualistic symbiotic relationship.
possibly but who would you vote for ?
I wouldn't vote for either of them. Both are politically corrupt in the same sense as the larger parties in the Republic have showed themselves to be over many years.
Are you saying SF are every bit as corrupt as the DUP ?
and if so, how ?
I suppose you are counting Red Sky, NAMA and RHI as DUP corruption? Yet none have been proved beyond sheer incompetence? Is this correct or do you have other details or evidence of corruption by DUP?
It looks pretty corrupt to me ... what would your guess be ?
.. but even if conclusive proof cannot is not found, incompetence on this scale is just as harmful ... and its the DUPs doing .. not SF.
The problem lies with providing proof of corruption. Surely if there was proof of corruption in Red Sky or NAMA or Planning Decisions then it would have led to prosecutions or the withdrawal from government by the DUP's partners which did not occur within the mandate in which the complaints of corruption allegedly occurred and not until January 2017 when disrespect was cited by SF as the reason for bringing down the government partnership with DUP after they refused to join a motion of no confidence in the FM.
There is a difference between corruption as a legal offence and the corruption of power which can only be prosecuted in the court of the electorate. However, the Assembly does not provide for this prosecution having any hope of occurring because the electorate cannot vote anyone out of power as it is guaranteed by the system. The issues of which SF ministers have been accused have already been listed above and in some cases have been found guilty through the legal system.
Well every party except the DUP must have reckoned there was corruption in Red Sky as Im faily sure there was consensus to get that little weasle Nelson McCausland out .. but the DUP POC'd it ...
NAMA was let drop for some reason and now RHI ... but again, whether corruption can be proved or not, surely absolutely inane incompetence should be enough to oust someone shouldn't it ?
Unfortunately we'll wait a long time before the DUP voters will convict the DUP ::)
The DUP come out with the usual shite.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-assembly-election/dup-manifesto-launch-arlene-foster-speech-in-full-35465897.html
Quote from: armaghniac on February 20, 2017, 07:20:27 PM
The DUP come out with the usual shite.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-assembly-election/dup-manifesto-launch-arlene-foster-speech-in-full-35465897.html
the DUP are playing a stupid game. It's all tribal. If they were competent they would reach out to catholics to ensure that even when Prods go below 50% they still run things.
And Sinn Fein is far less dangerous than Brexit.
Quote from: seafoid on February 20, 2017, 08:34:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 20, 2017, 07:20:27 PM
The DUP come out with the usual shite.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-assembly-election/dup-manifesto-launch-arlene-foster-speech-in-full-35465897.html
the DUP are playing a stupid game. It's all tribal. If they were competent they would reach out to catholics to ensure that even when Prods go below 50% they still run things.
And Sinn Fein is far less dangerous than Brexit.
Are they playing a stupid game? We have all thought that for a long time and they still get the same votes. To win over any doubters in their voter base saying they are not sf is probably a winner.
I really hope the joke is finally on them but it never has been before so history would say they will probably be fine?
They will still remain the biggest party i would say and them and their family members will continue to cash in at the rest of our expense.
Arlene is hilarious
"It would lead to the sort of #sectarian abuse of power# that has been seen wherever Sinn Fein have been able to do so from the removal of the Union Flag at City Hall, to the glorification of convicted terrorists to the Ministerial abuse of office which has been adjudicated upon by the courts."
Meanwhile...
"Winning 38 seats did not just mean there would be a unionist First Minister, it also meant that we would control the most government departments and have the best choice of those departments.
We used that strength to make sure that Northern Ireland had its first unionist Education Minister in almost 50 years, its first Agriculture Minister since the restoration of devolution, held the enormous and diverse Communities portfolio and retained responsibility for the economy."
Surely what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Quote from: seafoid on February 20, 2017, 08:34:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 20, 2017, 07:20:27 PM
The DUP come out with the usual shite.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-assembly-election/dup-manifesto-launch-arlene-foster-speech-in-full-35465897.html
the DUP are playing a stupid game. It's all tribal. If they were competent they would reach out to catholics to ensure that even when Prods go below 50% they still run things.
And Sinn Fein is far less dangerous than Brexit.
You are reaching out well!
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2017, 11:03:58 AM
Arlene is hilarious
"It would lead to the sort of #sectarian abuse of power# that has been seen wherever Sinn Fein have been able to do so from the removal of the Union Flag at City Hall, to the glorification of convicted terrorists to the Ministerial abuse of office which has been adjudicated upon by the courts."
Meanwhile...
"Winning 38 seats did not just mean there would be a unionist First Minister, it also meant that we would control the most government departments and have the best choice of those departments.
We used that strength to make sure that Northern Ireland had its first unionist Education Minister in almost 50 years, its first Agriculture Minister since the restoration of devolution, held the enormous and diverse Communities portfolio and retained responsibility for the economy."
Surely what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
She forgot that while she chose Education, Agriculture, Economy and Communities ministries she handed Finance to SF which was strange given that, when her ministers were flip flopping in and out of their posts, she had held onto the Finance ministry and previously said:
"If anybody knows me and indeed knows the Democratic Unionist Party they know that I'm not going to put at risk to the people of Northern Ireland the possibility that rogue Sinn Fein or renegade SDLP ministers are going to take decisions that will harm the community in Northern Ireland."
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 21, 2017, 11:21:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2017, 11:03:58 AM
Arlene is hilarious
"It would lead to the sort of #sectarian abuse of power# that has been seen wherever Sinn Fein have been able to do so from the removal of the Union Flag at City Hall, to the glorification of convicted terrorists to the Ministerial abuse of office which has been adjudicated upon by the courts."
Meanwhile...
"Winning 38 seats did not just mean there would be a unionist First Minister, it also meant that we would control the most government departments and have the best choice of those departments.
We used that strength to make sure that Northern Ireland had its first unionist Education Minister in almost 50 years, its first Agriculture Minister since the restoration of devolution, held the enormous and diverse Communities portfolio and retained responsibility for the economy."
Surely what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
She forgot that while she chose Education, Agriculture, Economy and Communities ministries she handed Finance to SF which was strange given that, when her ministers were flip flopping in and out of their posts, she had held onto the Finance ministry and previously said:
"If anybody knows me and indeed knows the Democratic Unionist Party they know that I'm not going to put at risk to the people of Northern Ireland the possibility that rogue Sinn Fein or renegade SDLP ministers are going to take decisions that will harm the community in Northern Ireland."
Did she not specifically say the "unionist community" ?
Quote from: haveaharp on February 21, 2017, 11:29:16 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 21, 2017, 11:21:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 21, 2017, 11:03:58 AM
Arlene is hilarious
"It would lead to the sort of #sectarian abuse of power# that has been seen wherever Sinn Fein have been able to do so from the removal of the Union Flag at City Hall, to the glorification of convicted terrorists to the Ministerial abuse of office which has been adjudicated upon by the courts."
Meanwhile...
"Winning 38 seats did not just mean there would be a unionist First Minister, it also meant that we would control the most government departments and have the best choice of those departments.
We used that strength to make sure that Northern Ireland had its first unionist Education Minister in almost 50 years, its first Agriculture Minister since the restoration of devolution, held the enormous and diverse Communities portfolio and retained responsibility for the economy."
Surely what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
She forgot that while she chose Education, Agriculture, Economy and Communities ministries she handed Finance to SF which was strange given that, when her ministers were flip flopping in and out of their posts, she had held onto the Finance ministry and previously said:
"If anybody knows me and indeed knows the Democratic Unionist Party they know that I'm not going to put at risk to the people of Northern Ireland the possibility that rogue Sinn Fein or renegade SDLP ministers are going to take decisions that will harm the community in Northern Ireland."
Did she not specifically say the "unionist community" ?
Here's the BBC article and video with Robinson and Foster making their statements:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34216421 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34216421)
Within a year, she handed the Finance portfolio to SF.
A couple of points. The Adams remarks were framed in a ham fisted way that meant they could be misconstrued, typical of Adams scoring an own goal. Taken in context he was talking about unionist intrangience and a refusal to deal with nationalists on an equal basis. His remarks in that context less the swearing would not have been too far from the thoughts of many nationalists. Like wise Guildernews remarks apart from being crude in expression are on the money, Foster needs to learn humility and manners and O'Neill should be taking shite from her.
I have said ad nauseam that Unionists and voting Unionist in particular do not want equality, OWC can only exist on their terms and claims from the Stoops, Alliance, PbP, Greens etc that they will make a difference are nonsense, a vote for them dilutes the nationalist vote and puts Forster firmly in charge. Only when unionists accept that they must co-exist with the rest of us in equality can a vote for these smaller parties begin to make a difference.
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 21, 2017, 11:58:46 AM
I have said ad nauseam that Unionists and voting Unionist in particular do not want equality, OWC can only exist on their terms and claims from the Stoops, Alliance, PbP, Greens etc that they will make a difference are nonsense, a vote for them dilutes the nationalist vote and puts Forster firmly in charge. Only when unionists accept that they must co-exist with the rest of us in equality can a vote for these smaller parties begin to make a difference.
And yet there is a majority of what is considered the non-unionist electorate that do not and never will vote for SF for a variety of reasons. The murder and mayhem pursued by the IRA until they eventually ground to a halt due to division and informers will always provide the unionist community with a reason not to work with non-unionist parties on the basis of trust. Shaking hands with the Queen or going to a N.Ireland football match is all well and good but if you are the only one in your party doing these things and not pursuing this as a party policy to the extent of eventually transferring a vote or using your vote tactically in a constituency where your own party cannot win it is pointless and just a gesture. SF voters are generally as much plumpers as any unionist, they won't even transfer a vote to any other non-unionist for fear of allowing any progress other than for their own party.
Just because the unionist opposition does not share your principles or vision does not mean you have to mirror their methods. So long as everyone lives in their own silos believing all their own publicity and perpetuating their own myths about themums there never can be any progress towards normalisation of politics on the basis of left/right or socialist/conservative beliefs for the betterment of the people. See US as a clear example of a large scale divided population and it reflects the N.Ireland silos in terms of the way in which parties and interest groups want to keep people divided.
Quote from: AQMP on February 21, 2017, 12:05:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 21, 2017, 11:58:46 AM
A couple of points. The Adams remarks were framed in a ham fisted way that meant they could be misconstrued, typical of Adams scoring an own goal. Taken in context he was talking about unionist intrangience and a refusal to deal with nationalists on an equal basis. His remarks in that context less the swearing would not have been too far from the thoughts of many nationalists. Like wise Guildernews remarks apart from being crude in expression are on the money, Foster needs to learn humility and manners and O'Neill should be taking shite from her.
I have said ad nauseam that Unionists and voting Unionist in particular do not want equality, OWC can only exist on their terms and claims from the Stoops, Alliance, PbP, Greens etc that they will make a difference are nonsense, a vote for them dilutes the nationalist vote and puts Forster firmly in charge. Only when unionists accept that they must co-exist with the rest of us in equality can a vote for these smaller parties begin to make a difference.
Spot on analysis
Not for me
Stormont has failed with the dup and the shinners in charge
Can't think of one decent piece of legislation brought in
I think it's a sad indictment of both major parties that their main policy is the get one over the other
I can understand why both my kids want to hell out of the shit hole we live in
Quote from: naka on February 21, 2017, 10:19:06 PM
Quote from: AQMP on February 21, 2017, 12:05:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 21, 2017, 11:58:46 AM
A couple of points. The Adams remarks were framed in a ham fisted way that meant they could be misconstrued, typical of Adams scoring an own goal. Taken in context he was talking about unionist intrangience and a refusal to deal with nationalists on an equal basis. His remarks in that context less the swearing would not have been too far from the thoughts of many nationalists. Like wise Guildernews remarks apart from being crude in expression are on the money, Foster needs to learn humility and manners and O'Neill should be taking shite from her.
I have said ad nauseam that Unionists and voting Unionist in particular do not want equality, OWC can only exist on their terms and claims from the Stoops, Alliance, PbP, Greens etc that they will make a difference are nonsense, a vote for them dilutes the nationalist vote and puts Forster firmly in charge. Only when unionists accept that they must co-exist with the rest of us in equality can a vote for these smaller parties begin to make a difference.
Spot on analysis
Not for me
Stormont has failed with the dup and the shinners in charge
Can't think of one decent piece of legislation brought in
I think it's a sad indictment of both major parties that their main policy is the get one over the other
I can understand why both my kids want to hell out of the shit hole we live in
Quite normal for Irish kids anywhere to want to get the hell out of Dodge as soon as they're released from the shackles of what passes for secondary education.
Could even be to do with below par parenting ;D
Regardless, kids should travel. It only takes a day or two for a parent to get over it and appreciate the bonus effects.
Apples' analysis still stands.
So with that attitude we won't have a population in the North... plenty opportunities here for work, grass ain't always greener, yes money and career can be 100% better elsewhere, but family ties support network can be enough to keep people here...
SF voters are generally as much plumpers as any unionist, they won't even transfer a vote to any other non-unionist for fear of allowing any progress other than for their own party.
I think that's an inaccurate analysis TYP.
Not for me
Stormont has failed with the dup and the shinners in charge
Can't think of one decent piece of legislation brought in
I think it's a sad indictment of both major parties that their main policy is the get one over the other
I can understand why both my kids want to hell out of the shit hole we live in
[/quote]
Let's list them: off the top of my head
Free prescriptions
Free bus pass at 60
Abolition of transfer test.............
RHI Scheme
Cutting the Assembly by 18 MLAs
Kerb crawling?
The biggest thing is the the brits are happy to let this continue as we r not killin each other so all is good in their eyes. In a way every thing is going to their master plan of
Keep them from killing each other
Keep the place from prospering less than the rest of the UK
Keep the civil service as the main employer.
Keep the Protestants as the main enforcer of law and order.
This is not going to change any time soon.
Quote from: never kickt a ball on February 21, 2017, 11:12:17 PM
Not for me
Stormont has failed with the dup and the shinners in charge
Can't think of one decent piece of legislation brought in
I think it's a sad indictment of both major parties that their main policy is the get one over the other
I can understand why both my kids want to hell out of the shit hole we live in
Let's list them: off the top of my head
Free prescriptions
Free bus pass at 60
Abolition of transfer test.............
RHI Scheme
Cutting the Assembly by 18 MLAs
Kerb crawling?
[/quote]
Free prescription!! Joke maybe if people paid a standard payment we'd have more money for NHS and less people dependent on free drugs
Transfer test still going strong (thankfully)
Kerb crawling? So no prostitution?
Watched five minutes of Spotlight... what has 27 years of voting got me? Tit for tat politics, proper cringe
Quote from: never kickt a ball on February 21, 2017, 11:12:17 PM
Not for me
Stormont has failed with the dup and the shinners in charge
Can't think of one decent piece of legislation brought in
I think it's a sad indictment of both major parties that their main policy is the get one over the other
I can understand why both my kids want to hell out of the shit hole we live in
Let's list them: off the top of my head
Free prescriptions
Free bus pass at 60
Abolition of transfer test.............
RHI Scheme
Cutting the Assembly by 18 MLAs
Kerb crawling?
[/quote]
Jeez after 25 years it's hardly a roll of honour
Transfer test( a shambles )
RBI scheme( a success if you are the dup)
Cutting the assembly was a necessity
I give you free travel
But I object to free prescriptions as the wealthiest should pay
For meafter 25 years
What about both sides articulating economic policies,tax policies, social healthcare or is that too much to expect
There are so many simple fixes,
But all I hear is RHI,Irish language, and don't let a Debian win
Quote from: naka on February 22, 2017, 08:57:42 AM
Quote from: never kickt a ball on February 21, 2017, 11:12:17 PM
Not for me
Stormont has failed with the dup and the shinners in charge
Can't think of one decent piece of legislation brought in
I think it's a sad indictment of both major parties that their main policy is the get one over the other
I can understand why both my kids want to hell out of the shit hole we live in
Let's list them: off the top of my head
Free prescriptions
Free bus pass at 60
Abolition of transfer test.............
RHI Scheme
Cutting the Assembly by 18 MLAs
Kerb crawling?
Jeez after 25 years it's hardly a roll of honour
Transfer test( a shambles )
RBI scheme( a success if you are the dup)
Cutting the assembly was a necessity
I give you free travel and the plastic bags legislation
But I object to free prescriptions as the wealthiest should pay
For me after 25 years
What about both major parties ( who after all are in partnership) articulating economic policies,tax policies, social healthcare provision, review of the health service or is that too much to expect
There are so many simple fixes,
But all I hear is RHI,Irish language, and don't let a Taig win
when you step back and look objectively at Stormont is it worth the hassle in its present form.
[/quote]
I know someone pooh poohed it, but all the issues come down to Unionists failure to embrace change, to cling to outdated notions of British superiority and a denial of equality. For example on education their insistence on testing at 11 despite the detrimental effect on their own voters. Obsession over flags etc... Nothing will change until that all changes.
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 22, 2017, 11:18:43 AM
I know someone pooh poohed it, but all the issues come down to Unionists failure to embrace change, to cling to outdated notions of British superiority and a denial of equality. For example on education their insistence on testing at 11 despite the detrimental effect on their own voters. Obsession over flags etc... Nothing will change until that all changes.
Yep, its abundantly clear when the DUPers keep harping on about Gerry Adams' trojan horse of "Equality" ..... Its not really Adams' wording at all, which is what they try to pretend its about ... its just equality itself ... they fear equality .. feckin disgraceful :-[
They've had it all their own way for so long that the very notion of equality disgusts & petrifies them .. A great deal of unionists simply want to go back to Stormont 1950 so thay can walk all over us again and keep the croppy down .. pathetic but unfortunately its true ..
Most Nationalists just want equality but vast swathes of unionism want domination ...
Big Bitter Arnie Fister needs to go for there to be any hope for the immediate future... and the DUP in general would need to change tack..
Its disgusting that just because the aul bitch has been caught out (incompetent &/or Corrupt) she and the DUP are prepared to simply put the breaks on and drag the people backwards .... It really is the lowest common denominator .. f**king B**tards when you think about it >:(
To save their own skin and deflect away from the real issues they are making the place we live in much worse .. much more sectarian and tribal ... its pathetic...
And then ofcourse when you watch GB TV they dont point that out .. back to the old .. "ah sure both sides are as bad as eachother" ... no they're f**king NOT :-\
it would sicken yer shite ...
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 22, 2017, 12:46:03 PM
Big Bitter Arnie Fister needs to go for there to be any hope for the immediate future... and the DUP in general would need to change tack..
Its disgusting that just because the aul bitch has been caught out (incompetent &/or Corrupt) she and the DUP are prepared to simply put the breaks on and drag the people backwards .... It really is the lowest common denominator .. f**king B**tards when you think about it >:(
To save their own skin and deflect away from the real issues they are making the place we live in much worse .. much more sectarian and tribal ... its pathetic...
And then ofcourse when you watch GB TV they dont point that out .. back to the old .. "ah sure both sides are as bad as eachother" ... no they're f**king NOT :-\
it would sicken yer shite ...
What are ye trying to say?
Quote from: Orior on February 22, 2017, 01:07:10 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 22, 2017, 12:46:03 PM
Big Bitter Arnie Fister needs to go for there to be any hope for the immediate future... and the DUP in general would need to change tack..
Its disgusting that just because the aul bitch has been caught out (incompetent &/or Corrupt) she and the DUP are prepared to simply put the breaks on and drag the people backwards .... It really is the lowest common denominator .. f**king B**tards when you think about it >:(
To save their own skin and deflect away from the real issues they are making the place we live in much worse .. much more sectarian and tribal ... its pathetic...
And then ofcourse when you watch GB TV they dont point that out .. back to the old .. "ah sure both sides are as bad as eachother" ... no they're f**king NOT :-\
it would sicken yer shite ...
What are ye trying to say?
Read it slowly ;)
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 22, 2017, 12:46:03 PM
Big Bitter Arnie Fister needs to go for there to be any hope for the immediate future... and the DUP in general would need to change tack..
Its disgusting that just because the aul bitch has been caught out (incompetent &/or Corrupt) she and the DUP are prepared to simply put the breaks on and drag the people backwards .... It really is the lowest common denominator .. f**king B**tards when you think about it >:(
To save their own skin and deflect away from the real issues they are making the place we live in much worse .. much more sectarian and tribal ... its pathetic...
And then ofcourse when you watch GB TV they dont point that out .. back to the old .. "ah sure both sides are as bad as eachother" ... no they're f**king NOT :-\
it would sicken yer shite ...
I have always believed they have zero interest in peace at all and are just feathering their nests. If the place progresses too much then there will be less bitterness and they will have no votes so it is in their best interests to keep it bitter.
Excellent comparison of Foster and Trump by Eamonn Mallie
http://eamonnmallie.com/2017/02/good-night-arlene-or-hello-parlene-by-eamonn-mallie/ (http://eamonnmallie.com/2017/02/good-night-arlene-or-hello-parlene-by-eamonn-mallie/)
Quote from: ONeill on February 21, 2017, 10:57:28 PM
SF voters are generally as much plumpers as any unionist, they won't even transfer a vote to any other non-unionist for fear of allowing any progress other than for their own party.
I think that's an inaccurate analysis TYP.
In the 2016 election, SF voters transferred 21,672 votes.
Alliance got 768, Cons 1, DUP 111, Greens 878, Independents 83, PBP 67, PUP 10, SDLP 3049, SF 15,687, TUV 11, UKIP 31, UUP 224, WP 750.
72% of SF transferred votes went to SF candidates. Only 14% to SDLP and 13% to non-nationalist parties.
61% of DUP transferred to DUP.
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 22, 2017, 09:28:39 PM
Quote from: ONeill on February 21, 2017, 10:57:28 PM
SF voters are generally as much plumpers as any unionist, they won't even transfer a vote to any other non-unionist for fear of allowing any progress other than for their own party.
I think that's an inaccurate analysis TYP.
In the 2016 election, SF voters transferred 21,672 votes.
Alliance got 768, Cons 1, DUP 111, Greens 878, Independents 83, PBP 67, PUP 10, SDLP 3049, SF 15,687, TUV 11, UKIP 31, UUP 224, WP 750.
72% of SF transferred votes went to SF candidates. Only 14% to SDLP and 13% to non-nationalist parties.
61% of DUP transferred to DUP.
What was the sdlp transfer rate?
Quote from: trileacman on February 22, 2017, 09:47:19 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 22, 2017, 09:28:39 PM
Quote from: ONeill on February 21, 2017, 10:57:28 PM
SF voters are generally as much plumpers as any unionist, they won't even transfer a vote to any other non-unionist for fear of allowing any progress other than for their own party.
I think that's an inaccurate analysis TYP.
In the 2016 election, SF voters transferred 21,672 votes.
Alliance got 768, Cons 1, DUP 111, Greens 878, Independents 83, PBP 67, PUP 10, SDLP 3049, SF 15,687, TUV 11, UKIP 31, UUP 224, WP 750.
72% of SF transferred votes went to SF candidates. Only 14% to SDLP and 13% to non-nationalist parties.
61% of DUP transferred to DUP.
What was the sdlp transfer rate?
SDLP voters transferred 15,202 votes.
Alliance got 4,143, Cons 2, DUP 379, Greens 1,566, Independents 386, PBP 615, SDLP 5,092, SF 2,083, TUV 17, UKIP 34, UUP 759, WP 126.
34% of SDLP transferred to SDLP
13% of SDLP transferred to SF
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 22, 2017, 10:10:08 PM
Quote from: trileacman on February 22, 2017, 09:47:19 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 22, 2017, 09:28:39 PM
Quote from: ONeill on February 21, 2017, 10:57:28 PM
SF voters are generally as much plumpers as any unionist, they won't even transfer a vote to any other non-unionist for fear of allowing any progress other than for their own party.
I think that's an inaccurate analysis TYP.
In the 2016 election, SF voters transferred 21,672 votes.
Alliance got 768, Cons 1, DUP 111, Greens 878, Independents 83, PBP 67, PUP 10, SDLP 3049, SF 15,687, TUV 11, UKIP 31, UUP 224, WP 750.
72% of SF transferred votes went to SF candidates. Only 14% to SDLP and 13% to non-nationalist parties.
61% of DUP transferred to DUP.
What was the sdlp transfer rate?
SDLP voters transferred 15,202 votes.
Alliance got 4,143, Cons 2, DUP 379, Greens 1,566, Independents 386, PBP 615, SDLP 5,092, SF 2,083, TUV 17, UKIP 34, UUP 759, WP 126.
34% of SDLP transferred to SDLP
13% of SDLP transferred to SF
The SDLP only ran 24 candidates so in most constituencies they would have just had 1 candidate. SF ran 39 so they would have much more opportunity to transfer to another SF candidate.
Quote from: dec on February 22, 2017, 10:16:47 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 22, 2017, 10:10:08 PM
Quote from: trileacman on February 22, 2017, 09:47:19 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 22, 2017, 09:28:39 PM
Quote from: ONeill on February 21, 2017, 10:57:28 PM
SF voters are generally as much plumpers as any unionist, they won't even transfer a vote to any other non-unionist for fear of allowing any progress other than for their own party.
I think that's an inaccurate analysis TYP.
In the 2016 election, SF voters transferred 21,672 votes.
Alliance got 768, Cons 1, DUP 111, Greens 878, Independents 83, PBP 67, PUP 10, SDLP 3049, SF 15,687, TUV 11, UKIP 31, UUP 224, WP 750.
72% of SF transferred votes went to SF candidates. Only 14% to SDLP and 13% to non-nationalist parties.
61% of DUP transferred to DUP.
What was the sdlp transfer rate?
SDLP voters transferred 15,202 votes.
Alliance got 4,143, Cons 2, DUP 379, Greens 1,566, Independents 386, PBP 615, SDLP 5,092, SF 2,083, TUV 17, UKIP 34, UUP 759, WP 126.
34% of SDLP transferred to SDLP
13% of SDLP transferred to SF
The SDLP only ran 24 candidates so in most constituencies they would have just had 1 candidate. SF ran 39 so they would have much more opportunity to transfer to another SF candidate.
That's why percentages are more relevant.
SF got 166,785 1st pref votes and transferred 21,672 - 13% which is poor vote management given the number of constituencies with two or more SF candidates as only 15,687 SF voters transferred to the party's other candidates.
Only 3.3% Of SF voters transferred to other parties, i.e. just over 96% of SF voters plumped for SF.
And therein lies the problem.....caused by people who don't understand PR .
Quote from: Rossfan on February 23, 2017, 12:25:38 AM
And therein lies the problem.....caused by people who don't understand PR .
PR is not hard to understand, some just prefer their own cult.
Re Transfers - If you look into the stats you will probably find SF were either last elected or last eliminated in most areas hence their votes weren`t distributed.
Its easy to make sweeping statements
Quote from: Rossfan on February 23, 2017, 12:25:38 AM
And therein lies the problem.....caused by people who don't understand PR .
No it isn't. This was an electoral strategy by SF and people who understand PR not the lack of understanding by the voter.
Quote from: Applesisapples on February 22, 2017, 11:18:43 AM
I know someone pooh poohed it, but all the issues come down to Unionists failure to embrace change, to cling to outdated notions of British superiority and a denial of equality. For example on education their insistence on testing at 11 despite the detrimental effect on their own voters. Obsession over flags etc... Nothing will change until that all changes.
Unionists supported by both Governments have always claimed it was Republicans that needed to change. It's understandable why they have held that line. Unionists today are a product of the great success of consecutive British and Irish governments. Even today, in Dublin in particular, John Hume is the Hero of peace. This is deny any credit of changes made by Republicans and credit the middle man from the Nationalist community. There is no such person credited from the Unionist side as there was no change demanded from Uionnists
Who was that DUP man on Nolan last night? He doesn't care about what happens, so long as the UK are out of EU. Says a lot really.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 23, 2017, 09:23:52 AM
Who was that DUP man on Nolan last night? He doesn't care about what happens, so long as the UK are out of EU. Says a lot really.
Nelson McCausland who maintains the Irish language act will cost 100 million a year.
Andy Pollacks article in the IT retweet this am sums up DUP voters/unionist voters very well.
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 22, 2017, 09:28:39 PM
Quote from: ONeill on February 21, 2017, 10:57:28 PM
SF voters are generally as much plumpers as any unionist, they won't even transfer a vote to any other non-unionist for fear of allowing any progress other than for their own party.
I think that's an inaccurate analysis TYP.
In the 2016 election, SF voters transferred 21,672 votes.
Alliance got 768, Cons 1, DUP 111, Greens 878, Independents 83, PBP 67, PUP 10, SDLP 3049, SF 15,687, TUV 11, UKIP 31, UUP 224, WP 750.
72% of SF transferred votes went to SF candidates. Only 14% to SDLP and 13% to non-nationalist parties.
61% of DUP transferred to DUP.
Interesting figures ... but..
You could also say that the 72% SF to SF was higher than the 61% DUP to DUP because the DUP will transfer to "any" unionist just to keep "themuns" out .. whereas more SF voters stick to their own party & manifesto...... i.e. Not just a sectarian vote ..
I'd be interested to know what percentage of DUP transfers went to Nationalists ... but then again that doesn't tell us the real picture either as many unionists would transfer for the SDLP in an attempt to keep SF out .... and to be fair, you will get a bit of this from both sides !!
So these figures don't really tell us anything.. well, nothing you can really analyse anyway ..
Jesus, I used to think Claire Hanna would be a shining light for the Stoops, but she is worse than Big Dolly.
The lovely Nelson McCausland on Nolan last night proved again what a wee bitter weasel he is .. he doesnt care about the consequences as long as "we're free from Europe" .. basically they think a hard border will be good for OWC in that it widens the gap between the North and the Republic ... The incorrectly think/hope that they can get back to Stormont 1950 .. FFS ::)
Also, as regards himself, poots and Big Arnie Fister saying that the Brexit donor details will all be released today ... I wouldnt hold my breath .. I would be amazed if they release the details ... it will be another case (as per RHI recipients) of them pretending to "want" to release the details but "alas we cant because the Donor wont hear of it" ..... I could be wrong but I will believe it when I see it..
Nelson is as big a bigot as they have which is saying something.
We are also waiting for grand plans to recoup the RHI money too.
A border is the only reason these clowns want Brexit in my view. They probably seeing it as strengthening "the union" when in fact all it will do will be push middle grounders(and some less than middle ground) more against it.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2017, 11:16:54 AM
Nelson is as big a bigot as they have which is saying something.
We are also waiting for grand plans to recoup the RHI money too.
A border is the only reason these clowns want Brexit in my view. They probably seeing it as strengthening "the union" when in fact all it will do will be push middle grounders(and some less than middle ground) more against it.
Yeah, they arent half as smart as they think they are .. they couldnt run a sweetie shop ... its some fall from the "keepers of the flame" as regards their financial/business acumen that they've been peddling for years ... Incompetent morons at best .. incompetent corrupt morons at worst..
As for Brexit, you're right, it could and hopefully will, backfire on them big time ..
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 23, 2017, 11:40:59 AM
As for Brexit, you're right, it could and hopefully will, backfire on them big time ..
Be careful what you wish for. Regardless if they get punished, we're all in this together now and a backfire is on us all.
The DUP can make as many blunders as they want, safe in the knowledge that their core support of fellow bigots will continue to elect them. A big pharmaceutical company near me has bought a facility in Dundalk on the back of Brexit yet you won't hear a word from those c***ts about the potential loss of jobs, of Portadown of all places. All they've to do is blabber about SF and Gerry Adams and they'll secure their vote.
Quote from: vallankumous on February 23, 2017, 12:46:05 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 23, 2017, 11:40:59 AM
As for Brexit, you're right, it could and hopefully will, backfire on them big time ..
Be careful what you wish for. Regardless if they get punished, we're all in this together now and a backfire is on us all.
Oh dont get me wrong .. I certainly dont wish for Brexit .. the opposite actually as I agree it will be awful for Ireland, North & South .... However, "if" Brexit is set in stone, then I hope the feck it backfires on them big time re the union which is seemingly "all" they care about ...They'd rather risk being horribly poor and in the sh1t & uber British than well off and out of the union.... That idiot McCauslands comments last night prove this .. as if we didnt know already..
This election will pan out the same even with a larger nationalist turn out due to the despicable behaviour of the DUP
But the next few years are going to be interesting. if Brexit becomess reality and the economical implications as a result then the unionist electorate will turn on them
I really beleave Scotland will vote for independence too ( after brexit )throwing the union into turmoil
Plus the demographic shift when the older and staunch unionist vote is gone
The struggle continues against all the dogmatic condescension that the DUP and their electorate bring but even they know the worm is turning
Quote from: Farrandeelin on February 23, 2017, 09:23:52 AM
Who was that DUP man on Nolan last night? He doesn't care about what happens, so long as the UK are out of EU. Says a lot really.
LAD pretty much sums it up https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=594692357402386&id=167750270096599 (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=594692357402386&id=167750270096599)
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 23, 2017, 02:47:43 PM
This election will pan out the same even with a larger nationalist turn out due to the despicable behaviour of the DUP
But the next few years are going to be interesting. if Brexit becomess reality and the economical implications as a result then the unionist electorate will turn on them
I really beleave Scotland will vote for independence too ( after brexit )throwing the union into turmoil
Plus the demographic shift when the older and staunch unionist vote is gone
The struggle continues against all the dogmatic condescension that the DUP and their electorate bring but even they know the worm is turning
Yep, .. it is strange though that they don't seem to want to factor in the changing demographics ... another ten years will make all the difference..
You'd think they'd be a little smarter but no, I guess they just arent that smart, or maybe they are simply so utterly blinded by bigotry that they just cant help themselves ... The scorpion & the Frog comes to mind !!
Whilst not in the least surprised by McCausland and his ilk, I despair that the DUP and their supporters are so unsure of their position on this Island that they fear equality. Equality nationalists with the reflection of same in the symbols and icons of the state could secure the union for ever. Their current approach could absolutely break the union.
That can be seen in the ludicrous interpretation of gerry's comments about equality. Clearly terrified of it, but little wonder given how they interpreted it for most of NI's existence
Ah, they dont want equality, or anything even related to it .. they want domination .. nothing else will suffice ::)
And the sad thing is, the older I get and the more I see them in action, the more I realise (sadly) that if the troubles hadn't happened, this place would still be in a 1950s Stormont nightmare scenario.... Its slipping away from them though and the change is ultimately unstoppable and its not going to make them any easier to live with for the foreseeable.... :-\
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 23, 2017, 05:01:00 PM
Ah, they dont want equality, or anything even related to it .. they want domination .. nothing else will suffice ::)
And the sad thing is, the older I get and the more I see them in action, the more I realise (sadly) that if the troubles hadn't happened, this place would still be in a 1950s Stormont nightmare scenario.... Its slipping away from them though and the change is ultimately unstoppable and its not going to make them any easier to live with for the foreseeable.... :-\
That is a worry
Things have come a long way for nationalist and the good Friday agreement has brought a new air of confidence through equality and this won't do in some quarters
The Dup sell hatred towards nationalist to maintain the polarisation and that equats to the biggot vote
If things change for the better for us anymore then get ready for the backlash
If that's the case so be it as this last few weeks have really been infuriating with some of the bile arnie and her cronies have been spewing
They just don't want power share on a democratic platform as it doesn't fill their oppressive mindset
A few more years of political struggle is no big shakes sure we are use to it
No word from big Arnie on who the donor of the 250k was. Now there's a surprise.
The Democratic Unionist Party has confirmed that it received £425,000 from a group of business people led by a Scottish Conservative party member and passed it on to help fund the UK pro-Brexit campaign.
The money was used to help finance an advertising campaign in Britain during the EU referendum.
The money was given to the DUP by the Constitutional Research Council, which is chaired by Richard Cook, a former vice chairman of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party.
Defending the transaction, the DUP's Jeffrey Donaldson said the party did its bit to give the British people the opportunity to once again govern their own affairs.
As part of the campaign, there was an expensive four-page 'Vote To Leave EU' advertisement in the British Metro newspaper.
The paper is available in London and other cities but not in Northern Ireland.
The DUP had faced calls to reveal how the cash was raised for the campaign.
DUP leader Arlene Foster had admitted that the party received donations after registering as a Leave campaigner.
However, when pushed for details about the donors during a recent UTV pre-election debate, she would only say: "From an organisation in England that wants to see the union kept and make sure we can have a United Kingdom."
Donations to political parties in Northern Ireland are kept confidential for fear of identifying donors. But other political parties had demanded that the DUP clarify who funded its "lavish" pro-Brexit advertising campaign.
Surely that might bring them down?
The DUP are saying that they spent it all on the leave campain. Don't believe that for one second. They really have been looking after themselves while the rest of the people have been made to suffer
Looks like trouble ahead for those donating and spending money in the referendum:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39075244 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39075244)
From the Electoral Commission:
Issues under consideration
Issues under consideration include the following, although further issues involving these or other campaigners may come to light:
Both the lead campaigners – The IN Campaign Limited ('Britain Stronger in Europe') and Vote Leave Limited – do not appear to have delivered all the necessary invoices and receipts to support their returns. There are also issues with the delivery of all the details required in the return, including supplier details for a number of payments. The Liberal Democrats spending return also appears to be missing some details including invoices, receipts and supplier names.
One campaigner, the European Movement of the UK Limited, declared a total spend of £329,000 but has supplied payment details of only £290,000.
Two campaigners, Labour Leave and the UK Independence Party submitted returns with discrepancies in the way they reported the same campaigning activity.
One campaigner, Mr Peter Harris, delivered his spending return late and without the required audit report. Another campaigner, Conservatives IN, appears to have delivered a donation report late.
The Commission has not yet determined whether any offences have been committed in respect of these issues.
Just look at how much DUP spent compared to others:
From the Electoral Commission:
Leave campaigners Reported spend (£)
Brexit Express £630,236
Democracy Movement £421,308
Democratic Unionist Party - D.U.P. £425,622
Labour Leave Limited £494,897
Leave.EU Group Ltd £693,022
Mr Peter Harris £421,433
UK Independence Party (UKIP) £1,354,393
Vote Leave Limited £6,789,892
WAGTV Limited £303,623
Leave total £11,534,426
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/journalist/electoral-commission-media-centre/news-releases-donations/details-of-major-campaign-spending-during-eu-referendum-published-by-electoral-commission (http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/journalist/electoral-commission-media-centre/news-releases-donations/details-of-major-campaign-spending-during-eu-referendum-published-by-electoral-commission)
Here's how they spent it:
£890.00 17/06/2016 Oasis Design Studio A3 Ash Building, Willowbank Business Park, Larne, BT40 2SF,
£600.00 17/06/2016 Independent News and Media Ltd 124-144 Royal Avenue, Belfast, BT1 1EB
£99,616.00 10/06/2016 Soopa Doopa Richmond House, Broad Street, Ely, CB7 4AH,
£3,120.00 17/06/2016 Independent News and Media Ltd 124-144 Royal Avenue, Belfast, BT1 1EB,
£1,800.00 22/06/2016 Independent News and Media Ltd 124-144 Royal Avenue, Belfast, BT1 1EB,
£32,750.73 20/06/2016 Aggregate IQ 240-560 Johnson Street, Victoria, V8W 3C6, Canada
£2,570.40 17/06/2016 Johnston Publishing 2 Esky Drive, Portadown, BT63 5YY,
£108.00 22/06/2016 Alpha Newspaper Group Unit 179 Moygashel Mills, Dungannon, BT71 7HB,
£90.00 22/06/2016 Alpha Newspaper Group Unit 179 Moygashel Mills, Dungannon, BT71 7HB,
£432.00 22/06/2016 Tapestry 51-52 Frith Street, London, W1D 4SH, United Kingdom
£282,000.00 21/06/2016 Associated Newspapers Ltd A&N Media Finance Services, PO Box 6795, Leicester, LE1 1ZP
£1,645.00 14/06/2016 Belfast Mall and Marketing Suite 2, 100 University Street, Belfast, BT7 1HE,
Quote from: Hereiam on February 24, 2017, 10:01:38 AM
The DUP are saying that they spent it all on the leave campain. Don't believe that for one second. They really have been looking after themselves while the rest of the people have been made to suffer
Look's like it was all raised and spent.
Peter Weir a shambles on the Nolan radio show this morning. Stumbling through most of it - hard to believe he is a former barrister
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 24, 2017, 11:33:37 AM
Peter Weir a shambles on the Nolan radio show this morning. Stumbling through most of it - hard to believe he is a former barrister
The old "with respect" line lost its meaning after the 250th time he used it.
The people that will be voting for DUP will not care that their party was devoting a lot a man hours on a brexit campaign instead of putting those resources into making NI more efficient
All that admin work for a campaign that n Ireland voted against and they couldn't cop on the RHI scheme was draining taxpayers money
What else do they have to do before even a hardline biggot voter starts to say "hold on a minute here"
Quote from: Take Your Points on February 24, 2017, 10:37:04 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on February 24, 2017, 10:01:38 AM
The DUP are saying that they spent it all on the leave campain. Don't believe that for one second. They really have been looking after themselves while the rest of the people have been made to suffer
Look's like it was all raised and spent.
Just like any GAA team's training budget, everything above board and no breach of amateur status.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 24, 2017, 12:04:59 PM
The people that will be voting for DUP will not care that their party was devoting a lot a man hours on a brexit campaign instead of putting those resources into making NI more efficient
All that admin work for a campaign that n Ireland voted against and they couldn't cop on the RHI scheme was draining taxpayers money
What else do they have to do before even a hardline biggot voter starts to say "hold on a minute here"
Hardline bigots tend not to frame questions this way.
Your right they might not use that exact terminology but I think they might still take a small hit on Election Day
A small minority has to apply some balanced perspective
Having said that not enough to effect their dominant party status
Jebus, that Peter Weirdo fella was bloody terrible .. Fair play to Nolan he had him in knots .. mind you my Dog could nearly have done that ... Just showed up "yet again" how pathetic the DUP really are .. No manifesto at all .... just bigotry !!
Someone would need to tell him that saying "with respect" doesnt actually help in his bumbling ::)
Yeah sure Arlene has said the magic words that we all knew she would say and the rabble will mobilize to vote her party back in.
Magic words - 'keep Sinn Fein out of the top position' - nothing about how they are going to sort the country out - but then again why waste your breath when it just requires those few words.
Quote from: stiffler on February 24, 2017, 08:09:20 AM
The Democratic Unionist Party has confirmed that it received £425,000 from a group of business people led by a Scottish Conservative party member and passed it on to help fund the UK pro-Brexit campaign.
The money was used to help finance an advertising campaign in Britain during the EU referendum.
The money was given to the DUP by the Constitutional Research Council, which is chaired by Richard Cook, a former vice chairman of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party.
Defending the transaction, the DUP's Jeffrey Donaldson said the party did its bit to give the British people the opportunity to once again govern their own affairs.
As part of the campaign, there was an expensive four-page 'Vote To Leave EU' advertisement in the British Metro newspaper.
The paper is available in London and other cities but not in Northern Ireland.
The DUP had faced calls to reveal how the cash was raised for the campaign.
DUP leader Arlene Foster had admitted that the party received donations after registering as a Leave campaigner.
However, when pushed for details about the donors during a recent UTV pre-election debate, she would only say: "From an organisation in England that wants to see the union kept and make sure we can have a United Kingdom."
Donations to political parties in Northern Ireland are kept confidential for fear of identifying donors. But other political parties had demanded that the DUP clarify who funded its "lavish" pro-Brexit advertising campaign.
Amazed that they published this but I guess they looked at it and thought their voters wouldn't mind .. actually they might like it :-\ ..
Saying all that, are they really in the clear? .... I'd be interested to know exactly how much they received and exactly how much they paid out ... Just to see if they were basically prostituting themselves .. Aron Banks said they asked for £30k per month to back his leave campaign..... Is there more of this to come out ?
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 24, 2017, 01:42:05 PM
Jebus, that Peter Weirdo fella was bloody terrible .. Fair play to Nolan he had him in knots .. mind you my Dog could nearly have done that ... Just showed up "yet again" how pathetic the DUP really are .. No manifesto at all .... just bigotry !!
Someone would need to tell him that saying "with respect" doesnt actually help in his bumbling ::)
Just listening to it - "with respect on it", don't know how many times he said that. Nolan wasn't too far wrong saying to him "you're all over the place" a few times
Quote from: take_yer_points on February 24, 2017, 02:07:46 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 24, 2017, 01:42:05 PM
Jebus, that Peter Weirdo fella was bloody terrible .. Fair play to Nolan he had him in knots .. mind you my Dog could nearly have done that ... Just showed up "yet again" how pathetic the DUP really are .. No manifesto at all .... just bigotry !!
Someone would need to tell him that saying "with respect" doesnt actually help in his bumbling ::)
Just listening to it - "with respect on it", don't know how many times he said that. Nolan wasn't too far wrong saying to him "you're all over the place" a few times
Aye unreal .. they're all "all over the place" .. but alas ::)
Whats the "with respect" sh1te all about ... its like a tick or something :o
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 24, 2017, 01:55:46 PM
Quote from: stiffler on February 24, 2017, 08:09:20 AM
The Democratic Unionist Party has confirmed that it received £425,000 from a group of business people led by a Scottish Conservative party member and passed it on to help fund the UK pro-Brexit campaign.
The money was used to help finance an advertising campaign in Britain during the EU referendum.
The money was given to the DUP by the Constitutional Research Council, which is chaired by Richard Cook, a former vice chairman of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party.
Defending the transaction, the DUP's Jeffrey Donaldson said the party did its bit to give the British people the opportunity to once again govern their own affairs.
As part of the campaign, there was an expensive four-page 'Vote To Leave EU' advertisement in the British Metro newspaper.
The paper is available in London and other cities but not in Northern Ireland.
The DUP had faced calls to reveal how the cash was raised for the campaign.
DUP leader Arlene Foster had admitted that the party received donations after registering as a Leave campaigner.
However, when pushed for details about the donors during a recent UTV pre-election debate, she would only say: "From an organisation in England that wants to see the union kept and make sure we can have a United Kingdom."
Donations to political parties in Northern Ireland are kept confidential for fear of identifying donors. But other political parties had demanded that the DUP clarify who funded its "lavish" pro-Brexit advertising campaign.
Amazed that they published this but I guess they looked at it and thought their voters wouldn't mind .. actually they might like it :-\ ..
Saying all that, are they really in the clear? .... I'd be interested to know exactly how much they received and exactly how much they paid out ... Just to see if they were basically prostituting themselves .. Aron Banks said they asked for £30k per month to back his leave campaign..... Is there more of this to come out ?
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/15114417.Business_group_behind_mystery_DUP_Brexit_donation_says_it_could_spend_more_opposing_independence/?ref=rss
possibly "donating" against the SNP next .....
I'd love to know a bit more about this "Group of Businessmen" and are the really just uber unionists or are they somehow gonna make £££ out of this?
Either way, they're obviously as thick as the DUP as Brexit certainly aint gonna help the union in the long run ..
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 24, 2017, 02:17:26 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 24, 2017, 01:55:46 PM
Quote from: stiffler on February 24, 2017, 08:09:20 AM
The Democratic Unionist Party has confirmed that it received £425,000 from a group of business people led by a Scottish Conservative party member and passed it on to help fund the UK pro-Brexit campaign.
The money was used to help finance an advertising campaign in Britain during the EU referendum.
The money was given to the DUP by the Constitutional Research Council, which is chaired by Richard Cook, a former vice chairman of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party.
Defending the transaction, the DUP's Jeffrey Donaldson said the party did its bit to give the British people the opportunity to once again govern their own affairs.
As part of the campaign, there was an expensive four-page 'Vote To Leave EU' advertisement in the British Metro newspaper.
The paper is available in London and other cities but not in Northern Ireland.
The DUP had faced calls to reveal how the cash was raised for the campaign.
DUP leader Arlene Foster had admitted that the party received donations after registering as a Leave campaigner.
However, when pushed for details about the donors during a recent UTV pre-election debate, she would only say: "From an organisation in England that wants to see the union kept and make sure we can have a United Kingdom."
Donations to political parties in Northern Ireland are kept confidential for fear of identifying donors. But other political parties had demanded that the DUP clarify who funded its "lavish" pro-Brexit advertising campaign.
Amazed that they published this but I guess they looked at it and thought their voters wouldn't mind .. actually they might like it :-\ ..
Saying all that, are they really in the clear? .... I'd be interested to know exactly how much they received and exactly how much they paid out ... Just to see if they were basically prostituting themselves .. Aron Banks said they asked for £30k per month to back his leave campaign..... Is there more of this to come out ?
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/15114417.Business_group_behind_mystery_DUP_Brexit_donation_says_it_could_spend_more_opposing_independence/?ref=rss
possibly "donating" against the SNP next .....
I'd love to know a bit more about this "Group of Businessmen" and are the really just uber unionists or are they somehow gonna make £££ out of this?
Either way, they're obviously as thick as the DUP as Brexit certainly aint gonna help the union ..
They are still not really telling us where the funds have came from. Its a group of businessmen is this one person or 100 people its really as clear as mud
My bets is that it leads back to the Royal family
Quote from: oisinog on February 24, 2017, 02:23:50 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 24, 2017, 02:17:26 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 24, 2017, 01:55:46 PM
Quote from: stiffler on February 24, 2017, 08:09:20 AM
The Democratic Unionist Party has confirmed that it received £425,000 from a group of business people led by a Scottish Conservative party member and passed it on to help fund the UK pro-Brexit campaign.
The money was used to help finance an advertising campaign in Britain during the EU referendum.
The money was given to the DUP by the Constitutional Research Council, which is chaired by Richard Cook, a former vice chairman of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party.
Defending the transaction, the DUP's Jeffrey Donaldson said the party did its bit to give the British people the opportunity to once again govern their own affairs.
As part of the campaign, there was an expensive four-page 'Vote To Leave EU' advertisement in the British Metro newspaper.
The paper is available in London and other cities but not in Northern Ireland.
The DUP had faced calls to reveal how the cash was raised for the campaign.
DUP leader Arlene Foster had admitted that the party received donations after registering as a Leave campaigner.
However, when pushed for details about the donors during a recent UTV pre-election debate, she would only say: "From an organisation in England that wants to see the union kept and make sure we can have a United Kingdom."
Donations to political parties in Northern Ireland are kept confidential for fear of identifying donors. But other political parties had demanded that the DUP clarify who funded its "lavish" pro-Brexit advertising campaign.
Amazed that they published this but I guess they looked at it and thought their voters wouldn't mind .. actually they might like it :-\ ..
Saying all that, are they really in the clear? .... I'd be interested to know exactly how much they received and exactly how much they paid out ... Just to see if they were basically prostituting themselves .. Aron Banks said they asked for £30k per month to back his leave campaign..... Is there more of this to come out ?
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/15114417.Business_group_behind_mystery_DUP_Brexit_donation_says_it_could_spend_more_opposing_independence/?ref=rss
possibly "donating" against the SNP next .....
I'd love to know a bit more about this "Group of Businessmen" and are the really just uber unionists or are they somehow gonna make £££ out of this?
Either way, they're obviously as thick as the DUP as Brexit certainly aint gonna help the union ..
They are still not really telling us where the funds have came from. Its a group of businessmen is this one person or 100 people its really as clear as mud
Yeah, I smell a rat .. they were visibly crapping themselves about this a few days ago and now this ... its all a bit too sanitary ???
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 24, 2017, 03:13:58 PM
Yeah, I smell a rat .. they were visibly crapping themselves about this a few days ago and now this ... its all a bit too sanitary ???
You have to be in the mindset of the DUP to understand why they were concerned about the donation. First of all it was £200K more than was being considered a scandal and secondly the average core DUP supporter is in middle to later life and usually a parsimonious, God fearing individual. So their true fear was how their hardcore supporter would react. Hence the spin that it was a move to retain the union when it had nothing to do with the union.
They are admitting to retain £9K of the donation for their own use.
Quote from: AQMP on February 24, 2017, 06:11:00 PM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on February 24, 2017, 11:33:37 AM
Peter Weir a shambles on the Nolan radio show this morning. Stumbling through most of it - hard to believe he is a former barrister
That interview wasn't a car crash, it was a mass pile up. It was actually worse than Chris Hazzard's last time on the economy. I've never heard the DUP as bad at communicating as they have been since the RHI came to the fore. In any normal society they'd get about 10 votes. Incredibly and unfortunately they'll probably be the biggest party.
Peter Weir is in serious trouble. He was moved from his current constituency of North Down into Strangford to replace Jonathan Bell but Bell will retain much of his support. This will mean that he is competing for a seat against fellow ministers Simon Hamilton and Michelle McIlveen. One DUP minister will fall.
Strangford Candidates:
Alliance Kellie Armstrong UUP Mike Nesbitt UUP Philip Smith Ind. Jonathan Bell DUP Simon Hamilton DUP Michelle McIlveen Green (NI) Ricky Bamford
NI Conservatives Scott Benton
SDLP Joe Boyle
TUV Stephen Cooper
Sinn Féin Dermot Kennedy
Independent Jimmy Menagh
DUP Peter Weir
This was a tight constituency in 2016 with a quota of just 4,663, only Nesbitt and McIlveen scraped quotas and all parties needing transfers from those eliminated.
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 23, 2017, 11:03:37 AM
The lovely Nelson McCausland on Nolan last night proved again what a wee bitter weasel he is .. he doesnt care about the consequences as long as "we're free from Europe" .. basically they think a hard border will be good for OWC in that it widens the gap between the North and the Republic ... The incorrectly think/hope that they can get back to Stormont 1950 .. FFS ::)
Also, as regards himself, poots and Big Arnie Fister saying that the Brexit donor details will all be released today ... I wouldnt hold my breath .. I would be amazed if they release the details ... it will be another case (as per RHI recipients) of them pretending to "want" to release the details but "alas we cant because the Donor wont hear of it" ..... I could be wrong but I will believe it when I see it..
Nelson is a tube. Wouldn't get elected anywhere normal.
But I wouldn't get too carried away with his comments. Ask any shinner if they want a united ireland even if the consequences were negative and you will get a similarly narrow minded gobshite answer
Lads just discovered that no polling cards have arrived for either me or the wife. I have always voted and am raging if they have took us off the registrar. What do i do.
Quote from: Hereiam on February 24, 2017, 03:13:27 PM
My bets is that it leads back to the Royal family
It think it could be even worse. They may be covering it up because it came from the Pope.
Quote from: Hereiam on February 25, 2017, 07:47:56 PM
Lads just discovered that no polling cards have arrived for either me or the wife. I have always voted and am raging if they have took us off the registrar. What do i do.
Phone up the electoral commission and ask - you don't need the polling card. Just make sure you are on it. Number is on the website.
Quote from: smelmoth on February 24, 2017, 08:45:47 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 23, 2017, 11:03:37 AM
The lovely Nelson McCausland on Nolan last night proved again what a wee bitter weasel he is .. he doesnt care about the consequences as long as "we're free from Europe" .. basically they think a hard border will be good for OWC in that it widens the gap between the North and the Republic ... The incorrectly think/hope that they can get back to Stormont 1950 .. FFS ::)
Also, as regards himself, poots and Big Arnie Fister saying that the Brexit donor details will all be released today ... I wouldnt hold my breath .. I would be amazed if they release the details ... it will be another case (as per RHI recipients) of them pretending to "want" to release the details but "alas we cant because the Donor wont hear of it" ..... I could be wrong but I will believe it when I see it..
Nelson is a tube. Wouldn't get elected anywhere normal.
But I wouldn't get too carried away with his comments. Ask any shinner if they want a united ireland even if the consequences were negative and you will get a similarly narrow minded gobshite answer
Long live our Tory overlords
Quote from: general_lee on February 26, 2017, 10:02:02 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 24, 2017, 08:45:47 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 23, 2017, 11:03:37 AM
The lovely Nelson McCausland on Nolan last night proved again what a wee bitter weasel he is .. he doesnt care about the consequences as long as "we're free from Europe" .. basically they think a hard border will be good for OWC in that it widens the gap between the North and the Republic ... The incorrectly think/hope that they can get back to Stormont 1950 .. FFS ::)
Also, as regards himself, poots and Big Arnie Fister saying that the Brexit donor details will all be released today ... I wouldnt hold my breath .. I would be amazed if they release the details ... it will be another case (as per RHI recipients) of them pretending to "want" to release the details but "alas we cant because the Donor wont hear of it" ..... I could be wrong but I will believe it when I see it..
Nelson is a tube. Wouldn't get elected anywhere normal.
But I wouldn't get too carried away with his comments. Ask any shinner if they want a united ireland even if the consequences were negative and you will get a similarly narrow minded gobshite answer
Long live our Tory overlords
Whats your point?
Quote from: smelmoth on February 26, 2017, 08:56:23 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 26, 2017, 10:02:02 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 24, 2017, 08:45:47 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 23, 2017, 11:03:37 AM
The lovely Nelson McCausland on Nolan last night proved again what a wee bitter weasel he is .. he doesnt care about the consequences as long as "we're free from Europe" .. basically they think a hard border will be good for OWC in that it widens the gap between the North and the Republic ... The incorrectly think/hope that they can get back to Stormont 1950 .. FFS ::)
Also, as regards himself, poots and Big Arnie Fister saying that the Brexit donor details will all be released today ... I wouldnt hold my breath .. I would be amazed if they release the details ... it will be another case (as per RHI recipients) of them pretending to "want" to release the details but "alas we cant because the Donor wont hear of it" ..... I could be wrong but I will believe it when I see it..
Nelson is a tube. Wouldn't get elected anywhere normal.
But I wouldn't get too carried away with his comments. Ask any shinner if they want a united ireland even if the consequences were negative and you will get a similarly narrow minded gobshite answer
Long live our Tory overlords
Whats your point?
My point is you are a narrow minded gobshite.
Quote from: general_lee on February 26, 2017, 09:21:10 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 26, 2017, 08:56:23 PM
Quote from: general_lee on February 26, 2017, 10:02:02 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on February 24, 2017, 08:45:47 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 23, 2017, 11:03:37 AM
The lovely Nelson McCausland on Nolan last night proved again what a wee bitter weasel he is .. he doesnt care about the consequences as long as "we're free from Europe" .. basically they think a hard border will be good for OWC in that it widens the gap between the North and the Republic ... The incorrectly think/hope that they can get back to Stormont 1950 .. FFS ::)
Also, as regards himself, poots and Big Arnie Fister saying that the Brexit donor details will all be released today ... I wouldnt hold my breath .. I would be amazed if they release the details ... it will be another case (as per RHI recipients) of them pretending to "want" to release the details but "alas we cant because the Donor wont hear of it" ..... I could be wrong but I will believe it when I see it..
Nelson is a tube. Wouldn't get elected anywhere normal.
But I wouldn't get too carried away with his comments. Ask any shinner if they want a united ireland even if the consequences were negative and you will get a similarly narrow minded gobshite answer
Long live our Tory overlords
Whats your point?
My point is you are a narrow minded gobshite.
Based on what exactly?
DUP have ran a horrible sectarian election campaign based on stoking up fear, division and hatred. It might benefit them short term in this election but longer term they hold little appeal for the younger generation who will tend not to vote in great numbers. Some of their interviews from their candidates in recent weeks have been absolutely shocking.
Quote from: yellowcard on February 26, 2017, 11:02:58 PM
DUP have ran a horrible sectarian election campaign based on stoking up fear, division and hatred. It might benefit them short term in this election but longer term they hold little appeal for the younger generation who will tend not to vote in great numbers. Some of their interviews from their candidates in recent weeks have been absolutely shocking.
The "
younger generation" need to get off their arses and Facebook and vote for someone else. It is true that many of the others are largely useless, but useless is different from malign. The "
younger generation" in England let the pensioners vote themselves out of the EU, with long term consequences. NI has a particular problem with Brexit and people with some interest in the future need to vote.
Quote from: yellowcard on February 26, 2017, 11:02:58 PM
DUP have ran a horrible sectarian election campaign based on stoking up fear, division and hatred. It might benefit them short term in this election but longer term they hold little appeal for the younger generation who will tend not to vote in great numbers. Some of their interviews from their candidates in recent weeks have been absolutely shocking.
In working class Loyalist areas and hardcore farmer areas this shite they are pumping out is pure gold. They'll take no hurt in those areas. I'd be surprised if there is much change for either SF and DUP.
There is Claire somebody from PBP on the BBC tonight who is still spinning that there is "fearmongering re the border" and Sinn Féin are posturing, rather "that border communities should be asked what they want" FFS. Of course she does not suggest any scintilla of a plan as to how border problems are to be avoided. Why are people in West Belfast voting for people that are at one with Theresa May in lies?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 26, 2017, 11:09:21 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on February 26, 2017, 11:02:58 PM
DUP have ran a horrible sectarian election campaign based on stoking up fear, division and hatred. It might benefit them short term in this election but longer term they hold little appeal for the younger generation who will tend not to vote in great numbers. Some of their interviews from their candidates in recent weeks have been absolutely shocking.
In working class Loyalist areas and hardcore farmer areas this shite they are pumping out is pure gold. They'll take no hurt in those areas. I'd be surprised if there is much change for either SF and DUP.
Not sure about hardcore farmers, they know they're in for a royal screwing once the EU subsidies go, but Mike TV isn't really giving them a plan B other than some fantastical enterprise zone to be funded by god knows who!
Quote from: johnneycool on February 27, 2017, 09:16:43 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 26, 2017, 11:09:21 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on February 26, 2017, 11:02:58 PM
DUP have ran a horrible sectarian election campaign based on stoking up fear, division and hatred. It might benefit them short term in this election but longer term they hold little appeal for the younger generation who will tend not to vote in great numbers. Some of their interviews from their candidates in recent weeks have been absolutely shocking.
In working class Loyalist areas and hardcore farmer areas this shite they are pumping out is pure gold. They'll take no hurt in those areas. I'd be surprised if there is much change for either SF and DUP.
Not sure about hardcore farmers, they know they're in for a royal screwing once the EU subsidies go, but Mike TV isn't really giving them a plan B other than some fantastical enterprise zone to be funded by god knows who!
Why did the Farmers Union then campaign to leave? That one has always baffled me.
Because they are another arm of the Orange Order. Simple as that.
Quote from: Hereiam on February 27, 2017, 09:53:57 AM
Because they are another arm of the Orange Order. Simple as that.
That bit I get but you cant campaign to leave and then complain about losing subsidies. It was a crazy position and looking increasingly so.
They have to complain to be seen to be putting pressure on the British government to replicate these subsidies when the UK leaves Europe. This is the main goal of the farmers Union, if they get this then everything is rosie.
Quote from: Hereiam on February 27, 2017, 10:24:09 AM
They have to complain to be seen to be putting pressure on the British government to replicate these subsidies when the UK leaves Europe. This is the main goal of the farmers Union, if they get this then everything is rosie.
It isn't quite that simple, some hope that tariffs on EU products will drive up prices for those inside the wall. This is all fine for some products, but then the place is flooded with Brazilian beef and genetically enhanced American stuff. Either way I think subsidies for farmers will not last, if you look at any comments in England they are along the lines of "no way will we give the money saved from the EU to the focking rich farmers".
Steve Aiken from UUP possibly a worse performance than Peter Weir from DUP on Nolan this morning
Quote from: NAG1 on February 27, 2017, 10:10:30 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on February 27, 2017, 09:53:57 AM
Because they are another arm of the Orange Order. Simple as that.
That bit I get but you cant campaign to leave and then complain about losing subsidies. It was a crazy position and looking increasingly so.
Sure isn't that exactly what Diane Dodds was doing the other week. They really haven't a clue and Westminster won't be long telling them where to get off when the begging bowl is presented.
Quote from: johnneycool on February 27, 2017, 01:29:50 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on February 27, 2017, 10:10:30 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on February 27, 2017, 09:53:57 AM
Because they are another arm of the Orange Order. Simple as that.
That bit I get but you cant campaign to leave and then complain about losing subsidies. It was a crazy position and looking increasingly so.
Sure isn't that exactly what Diane Dodds was doing the other week. They really haven't a clue and Westminster won't be long telling them where to get off when the begging bowl is presented.
May will promise subsidies for a year or so, and then just say that she cannot commit beyond the election or whatever. Dodds has some neck, since the DUP supported Brexit in the full knowledge that farmers would lose out over time.
Farmers should look to N.Zealand to see what will happen outside the EU. When NZ was cut off by UK when it joined the single market, its farmers lost all subsidies and the industry was allowed to drift until it found its own level. While farms in NZ are fairly large, those in N.Ireland are relatively small and less likely to survive without EU subsidies.
UK government cares little for its agriculture industry, its first concern is the provision of low cost food regardless of quality. It can import food cheaply and of lower quality under the guise of removal of regulations. Any rise in food prices is immediately a cause for concern for the government given the unrest it will bring and the rise in inflation. So, imports will replace subsidised food from local farmers. Farmers only need to look at the power of the supermarkets with the milk industry as an example.
Lets say the UK are going to model its farming sector on the NZ one then this is what needs to happen
- small farmers have to be forced out/bought over by the larger farmers
- field sizes will have to increase, hedges ripped out (that Europe has paid to be put in place)
- area's will need to be designated as producing just one type of produce
Can you really see this happening over here, i don't
So it turns out that i cant vote as my name is not on the register. >:(
SF running a bus from Queens to Armagh for the elections on Thursday evening. Spread the word.
Quote from: Feckitt on February 27, 2017, 05:34:42 PM
SF running a bus from Queens to Armagh for the elections on Thursday evening. Spread the word.
I don't go to Queens and I don't live in Armagh.
Quote from: Feckitt on February 27, 2017, 05:34:42 PM
SF running a bus from Queens to Armagh for the elections on Thursday evening. Spread the word.
Do they allow any Prods on the bus?
Quote from: ziggysego on February 27, 2017, 06:23:48 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on February 27, 2017, 05:34:42 PM
SF running a bus from Queens to Armagh for the elections on Thursday evening. Spread the word.
I don't go to Queens and I don't live in Armagh.
I'm sure the bus operators will sort you out with a polling card.
Alex Attwood just refereed to Derry as Derry/Londonderry on the Nolan show......jesus wept. This simple statement sums up what is wrong with the SDLP.
Quote from: Hereiam on February 28, 2017, 09:19:50 AM
Alex Attwood just refereed to Derry as Derry/Londonderry on the Nolan show......jesus wept. This simple statement sums up what is wrong with the SDLP.
Who exactly is he trying to impress?
Quote from: general_lee on February 28, 2017, 09:34:56 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on February 28, 2017, 09:19:50 AM
Alex Attwood just refereed to Derry as Derry/Londonderry on the Nolan show......jesus wept. This simple statement sums up what is wrong with the SDLP.
Who exactly is he trying to impress?
UUP voters
Quote from: smort on February 28, 2017, 09:39:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on February 28, 2017, 09:34:56 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on February 28, 2017, 09:19:50 AM
Alex Attwood just refereed to Derry as Derry/Londonderry on the Nolan show......jesus wept. This simple statement sums up what is wrong with the SDLP.
Who exactly is he trying to impress?
UUP voters
he drags it out a bit.. imagine he's on the radio this morning to put himself out there as he only got in and no more last time.
Quote from: AQMP on February 28, 2017, 10:09:51 AM
Latest Lucid Talk Poll shows DUP at 26.3%, actually UP from the last poll. God save us all - there is no hope for this rotten state!
However down 3% from the last election.
Quote from: AQMP on February 28, 2017, 10:09:51 AM
Latest Lucid Talk Poll shows DUP at 26.3%, actually UP from the last poll. God save us all - there is no hope for this rotten state!
Local government , assembly , Westminster , European Parliament . 4 levels of government interfering in people's lives . Two is more than enough TBH .
Quote from: AQMP on February 28, 2017, 10:09:51 AM
Latest Lucid Talk Poll shows DUP at 26.3%, actually UP from the last poll. God save us all - there is no hope for this rotten state!
The publication of their manifesto give them a boost.
(http://www.newsletter.co.uk/webimage/1.4052159.1342117835!image/2028243765.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_595/2028243765.jpg)
Quote from: smelmoth on February 24, 2017, 08:45:47 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 23, 2017, 11:03:37 AM
The lovely Nelson McCausland on Nolan last night proved again what a wee bitter weasel he is .. he doesnt care about the consequences as long as "we're free from Europe" .. basically they think a hard border will be good for OWC in that it widens the gap between the North and the Republic ... The incorrectly think/hope that they can get back to Stormont 1950 .. FFS ::)
Also, as regards himself, poots and Big Arnie Fister saying that the Brexit donor details will all be released today ... I wouldnt hold my breath .. I would be amazed if they release the details ... it will be another case (as per RHI recipients) of them pretending to "want" to release the details but "alas we cant because the Donor wont hear of it" ..... I could be wrong but I will believe it when I see it..
Nelson is a tube. Wouldn't get elected anywhere normal.
But I wouldn't get too carried away with his comments. Ask any shinner if they want a united ireland even if the consequences were negative and you will get a similarly narrow minded gobshite answer
Afraid I have to disagree on that one ... Lots & lots of Sf voters would NOT vote for a UI if they thought it would leave us all in the sh1te !!
Quote from: ashman on February 28, 2017, 10:57:55 AM
Quote from: AQMP on February 28, 2017, 10:09:51 AM
Latest Lucid Talk Poll shows DUP at 26.3%, actually UP from the last poll. God save us all - there is no hope for this rotten state!
Local government , assembly , Westminster , European Parliament . 4 levels of government interfering in people's lives . Two is more than enough TBH .
Europe's going anyway. At this stage I'd probably get rid of the assembly if I had to pick one of the remaining three.
In two minds to vote or not.
We just seem to be always teetering on the edge of the abyss with neither side willing to give an inch and always appealing to the hardcore elements.
Themmuns are campaigning about Armageddon happening if Gerry gets in while SF are basing their campaign about the RHI scandal and not how they will change things/handle Brexit/look at health etc
Depressing stuff
Quote from: Taylor on February 28, 2017, 02:33:41 PM
In two minds to vote or not.
We just seem to be always teetering on the edge of the abyss with neither side willing to give an inch and always appealing to the hardcore elements.
Themmuns are campaigning about Armageddon happening if Gerry gets in while SF are basing their campaign about the RHI scandal and not how they will change things/handle Brexit/look at health etc
Depressing stuff
SF are basing their campaign on equality, something Arlene has been steadfastly against, so I'm not sure you can tar both sides with the same brush.
Quote from: johnneycool on February 28, 2017, 03:49:41 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 28, 2017, 02:33:41 PM
In two minds to vote or not.
We just seem to be always teetering on the edge of the abyss with neither side willing to give an inch and always appealing to the hardcore elements.
Themmuns are campaigning about Armageddon happening if Gerry gets in while SF are basing their campaign about the RHI scandal and not how they will change things/handle Brexit/look at health etc
Depressing stuff
SF are basing their campaign on equality, something Arlene has been steadfastly against, so I'm not sure you can tar both sides with the same brush.
They are basing their arguments on how bad the other side are.
Equality isnt an issue for me
Why not?
Quote from: Taylor on February 28, 2017, 04:03:32 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 28, 2017, 03:49:41 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 28, 2017, 02:33:41 PM
In two minds to vote or not.
We just seem to be always teetering on the edge of the abyss with neither side willing to give an inch and always appealing to the hardcore elements.
Themmuns are campaigning about Armageddon happening if Gerry gets in while SF are basing their campaign about the RHI scandal and not how they will change things/handle Brexit/look at health etc
Depressing stuff
SF are basing their campaign on equality, something Arlene has been steadfastly against, so I'm not sure you can tar both sides with the same brush.
They are basing their arguments on how bad the other side are.
Equality isnt an issue for me
No they arent .. Sf are basing their main arguments on the RHI scandal, previous scandals and equality ... the DUP are just scaremongering re historical insecurities...
Same ole thing again with the erroneous view that both sides are as bad as eachother .... I honestly cant see how you or anyone cannot see the difference .. If we are going to move forward, we have to live in the hear & now ... Would you not agree that the DUP are either grossly incompetent &/or corrupt in their dealings with RHI, Red Sky , Irisgate, Petergate, NAMA etc.....
I dont see how SF bringing that up (as do all the other parties including the UUP by the way) is remotely akin to the DUP simply dredging up supposed bogeymen and trying to scare the bejasus out of their electorate .. who unfortunately fall for the same ole dung every time ::)
Also, equality is the main issue for me ..
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 28, 2017, 06:29:35 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 28, 2017, 04:03:32 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 28, 2017, 03:49:41 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 28, 2017, 02:33:41 PM
In two minds to vote or not.
We just seem to be always teetering on the edge of the abyss with neither side willing to give an inch and always appealing to the hardcore elements.
Themmuns are campaigning about Armageddon happening if Gerry gets in while SF are basing their campaign about the RHI scandal and not how they will change things/handle Brexit/look at health etc
Depressing stuff
SF are basing their campaign on equality, something Arlene has been steadfastly against, so I'm not sure you can tar both sides with the same brush.
They are basing their arguments on how bad the other side are.
Equality isnt an issue for me
No they arent .. Sf are basing their main arguments on the RHI scandal, previous scandals and equality ... the DUP are just scaremongering re historical insecurities...
Same ole thing again with the erroneous view that both sides are as bad as eachother .... I honestly cant see how you or anyone cannot see the difference .. If we are going to move forward, we have to live in the hear & now ... Would you not agree that the DUP are either grossly incompetent &/or corrupt in their dealings with RHI, Red Sky , Irisgate, Petergate, NAMA etc.....
I dont see how SF bringing that up (as do all the other parties including the UUP by the way) is remotely akin to the DUP simply dredging up supposed bogeymen and trying to scare the bejasus out of their electorate .. who unfortunately fall for the same ole dung every time ::)
Also, equality is the main issue for me ..
If you think some imagined lack of "equality" is the most important isdue facing the Six Counties then you deserve what you get. You will have equal space on the canoe going down the swanee as the glorified county council does f all
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 28, 2017, 07:03:06 PM
If you think some imagined lack of "equality" is the most important isdue facing the Six Counties then you deserve what you get. You will have equal space on the canoe going down the swanee as the glorified county council does f all
The glorified county council does indeed do f all, but there is no reason to let bollixes run it all the same.
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 28, 2017, 07:03:06 PM
If you think some imagined lack of "equality" is the most important isdue facing the Six Counties then you deserve what you get. You will have equal space on the canoe going down the swanee as the glorified county council does f all
I get where you are coming from, but I disagree. Who do you decide then which members of society are less equal to others? I can't agree to society that is based on that.
Remember, it wasn't too long ago that Nationalists / Republicans / Catholics were the less equal members of our society...
Quote from: ziggysego on February 28, 2017, 07:19:36 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 28, 2017, 07:03:06 PM
If you think some imagined lack of "equality" is the most important isdue facing the Six Counties then you deserve what you get. You will have equal space on the canoe going down the swanee as the glorified county council does f all
I get where you are coming from, but I disagree. Who do you decide then which members of society are less equal to others? I can't agree to society that is based on that.
Remember, it wasn't too long ago that Nationalists / Republicans / Catholics were the less equal members of our society...
We remember it well. But where do you see the lack of equality now?
There are no complaints about access to housing, employment, social services, education. If anything the Loyalist working class seem to have been left behind in the likes of education and access to third level especially.
The DUP shot down the Language Act but in all honesty is that a major issue or a manufactured issue? I acceptfully of course that the DUP would prefer if Nationalists never crossed the door of Stormont but Im sure a good few SInn Fein supporters would like to see the Unionist crowd on the boat to the UK
So what "equality" do nationalists not have at the minute ? Curious and not trolling
Ha im guessing all that housing in north belfast being blocked is just one of those things and not dodds and mccausland desperately trying to keep the numbers right in their constituency. Is it any bloody wonder they both shat bricks over the new proposed boundaries. Years of their mischevious hard work undone by some civil servant and a crayon.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 28, 2017, 08:04:03 PM
Ha im guessing all that housing in north belfast being blocked is just one of those things and not dodds and mccausland desperately trying to keep the numbers right in their constituency. Is it any bloody wonder they both shat bricks over the new proposed boundaries. Years of their mischevious hard work undone by some civil servant and a crayon.
And that's why housing etc must be kept away from the politicians.
Of course Gerry Kelly was quick enough to try the sectarian headcount as well
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 28, 2017, 08:58:59 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 28, 2017, 08:04:03 PM
Ha im guessing all that housing in north belfast being blocked is just one of those things and not dodds and mccausland desperately trying to keep the numbers right in their constituency. Is it any bloody wonder they both shat bricks over the new proposed boundaries. Years of their mischevious hard work undone by some civil servant and a crayon.
And that's why housing etc must be kept away from the politicians.
Of course Gerry Kelly was quick enough to try the sectarian headcount as well
There could have been a lot of housing at Girdwood barracks but SF and DUP went for a carve up there instead
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 28, 2017, 06:29:35 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 28, 2017, 04:03:32 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 28, 2017, 03:49:41 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 28, 2017, 02:33:41 PM
In two minds to vote or not.
We just seem to be always teetering on the edge of the abyss with neither side willing to give an inch and always appealing to the hardcore elements.
Themmuns are campaigning about Armageddon happening if Gerry gets in while SF are basing their campaign about the RHI scandal and not how they will change things/handle Brexit/look at health etc
Depressing stuff
SF are basing their campaign on equality, something Arlene has been steadfastly against, so I'm not sure you can tar both sides with the same brush.
They are basing their arguments on how bad the other side are.
Equality isnt an issue for me
No they arent .. Sf are basing their main arguments on the RHI scandal, previous scandals and equality ... the DUP are just scaremongering re historical insecurities...
Same ole thing again with the erroneous view that both sides are as bad as eachother .... I honestly cant see how you or anyone cannot see the difference .. If we are going to move forward, we have to live in the hear & now ... Would you not agree that the DUP are either grossly incompetent &/or corrupt in their dealings with RHI, Red Sky , Irisgate, Petergate, NAMA etc.....
I dont see how SF bringing that up (as do all the other parties including the UUP by the way) is remotely akin to the DUP simply dredging up supposed bogeymen and trying to scare the bejasus out of their electorate .. who unfortunately fall for the same ole dung every time ::)
Also, equality is the main issue for me ..
What part of your life is currently effected by inequality?
Understand things were bad however I can't see how equality is what SF will now try to deliver.
In what areas?
AF is a sc**bag no doubt as are most of the DUP but the same could be said of others involved in political parties
Would it be equality based on the Irish language act??
I'd be happier if they started working on improving health education jobs infrastructure wellbeing of it's voters... step away from the tribalism and show that they can do normal politics!! Now that would get you voting
Honestly the Irish language act means nothing to many many Catholics.
As previous post says health, education & jobs should be priority for Everyone
f**k me leaders debate goes nationwide and they really find some clampits to ask questions why not wheel out wullie frazer and bryson to make us look like even bigger dicks. I thought eastwood. Nesbitt and long (although her voice goes through you) were good. Oneil speaks a bit too fast and was lying through her teeth about when SF knew about RHI but still think she will get better and will be good in the long run. Arlene is just a nasty piece of work but her followers will just vote DUP no matter what. At least she shook oneils hand at the end unlike that bigot mccausland
No wonder the DUP have been hiding Arlene, she was dreadful. If Michelle O'Neill slowed down she would be grand, someone described her on radio this morning as talking like a washing machine! Thought Naomi Long was quite good.
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on February 28, 2017, 10:24:06 PM
No wonder the DUP have been hiding Arlene, she was dreadful. If Michelle O'Neill slowed down she would be grand, someone described her on radio this morning as talking like a washing machine! Thought Naomi Long was quite good.
O'Neill goes too fast, Long spoke well. Eastwood did pretty well, I thought. O'Neill slipped up with a silly comment to him about a United Ireland being a red line, as SF do not have this as a red line for entering government either. TV Mike was allow slabber on about the GFA when his party voted against it in Westminster recently. Foster was poor and did nothing to extend her appeal beyond the Orange Lodge.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2017, 10:31:36 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on February 28, 2017, 10:24:06 PM
No wonder the DUP have been hiding Arlene, she was dreadful. If Michelle O'Neill slowed down she would be grand, someone described her on radio this morning as talking like a washing machine! Thought Naomi Long was quite good.
O'Neill goes too fast, Long spoke well. Eastwood did pretty well, I thought. O'Neill slipped up with a silly comment to him about a United Ireland being a red line, as SF do not have this as a red line for entering government either. TV Mike was allow slabber on about the GFA when his party voted against it in Westminster recently. Foster was poor and did nothing to extend her appeal beyond the Orange Lodge.
Arlene had a wee dig about the makeup of the audience, not too many vocal DUPers in to support her it seems as she was cut asunder all night.
And some commentators in response to this likened her to Nigel Farrage in having to attack the audience.
She was outnumbered because the majority of people who watch/take part in political debates do not blindly follow the DUP just because they are the DUP. The imbalance wasn't in a nationalist/unionist way, it was in a sensible/senseless way.
Foster was even arrogant enough to have a cut at the make up of the audience. She just doesn't seem to get the fact that it is her own reluctance to admit to and own up to her mistakes that have turned people completely against her apart from those with the red white and blue underpants. Whether she wins the election or not, her political career is over and she deserves everything she gets after her behaviour in recent months. A real nasty vitriolic piece of work.
Ziggy us nationalists are still the shit on the shoes of the them pricks in the British establishment. Never forget that.
Quote from: Hereiam on February 28, 2017, 11:45:36 PM
Ziggy us nationalists are still the shit on the shoes of the them pricks in the British establishment. Never forget that.
The British establishment would like to be rid of NI .
Naomi long won that debate all day long.
How much do leaders debates affect voting in the north ? Very little I suspect, but we will know in a few days for sure.
Quote from: Rois on February 28, 2017, 11:17:03 PM
And some commentators in response to this likened her to Nigel Farrage in having to attack the audience.
She was outnumbered because the majority of people who watch/take part in political debates do not blindly follow the DUP just because they are the DUP. The imbalance wasn't in a nationalist/unionist way, it was in a sensible/senseless way.
I thought that was a glimpse at who she really is, and the jeering of the crowd that time wasn't even Orange and Green it was about Gay Marriage, someone should have told her that the crowd was a balanced reflection of the population on that issue.
Huge number of people wouldn't be seen dead at a political debate in this part of the world. That silent majority will have their sway/say (e.g. non voters, duppers etc)
They might not affect people's first choices but they may inspire previous non-voters to go out and change what is there, and may affect transfers.
Quote from: Hereiam on February 28, 2017, 11:45:36 PM
Ziggy us nationalists are still the shit on the shoes of the them pricks in the British establishment. Never forget that.
How ? Specifically in your day to day life, how does that manifest itself ?
Employment, housing, health etc? Real issues
Is there a moratorium in NI when it comes to elections?
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 09:24:25 AM
Quote from: Rois on March 01, 2017, 09:09:34 AM
They might not affect people's first choices but they may inspire previous non-voters to go out and change what is there, and may affect transfers.
Do you think many dyed in the wool non-voters would bother watching that in the first place??
I think there's a sizeable number, yeah. I'll take my husband as an example. Hasn't voted for years in a parliamentary election (assembly or Westminster). He watched the debate and he'll be voting tomorrow because Brexit, RHI etc are all issues that are annoying him.
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 28, 2017, 07:45:24 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on February 28, 2017, 07:19:36 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on February 28, 2017, 07:03:06 PM
If you think some imagined lack of "equality" is the most important isdue facing the Six Counties then you deserve what you get. You will have equal space on the canoe going down the swanee as the glorified county council does f all
I get where you are coming from, but I disagree. Who do you decide then which members of society are less equal to others? I can't agree to society that is based on that.
Remember, it wasn't too long ago that Nationalists / Republicans / Catholics were the less equal members of our society...
We remember it well. But where do you see the lack of equality now?
There are no complaints about access to housing, employment, social services, education. If anything the Loyalist working class seem to have been left behind in the likes of education and access to third level especially.
The DUP shot down the Language Act but in all honesty is that a major issue or a manufactured issue? I acceptfully of course that the DUP would prefer if Nationalists never crossed the door of Stormont but Im sure a good few SInn Fein supporters would like to see the Unionist crowd on the boat to the UK
Quote from: Taylor on February 28, 2017, 09:16:56 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on February 28, 2017, 06:29:35 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 28, 2017, 04:03:32 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on February 28, 2017, 03:49:41 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 28, 2017, 02:33:41 PM
In two minds to vote or not.
We just seem to be always teetering on the edge of the abyss with neither side willing to give an inch and always appealing to the hardcore elements.
Themmuns are campaigning about Armageddon happening if Gerry gets in while SF are basing their campaign about the RHI scandal and not how they will change things/handle Brexit/look at health etc
Depressing stuff
SF are basing their campaign on equality, something Arlene has been steadfastly against, so I'm not sure you can tar both sides with the same brush.
They are basing their arguments on how bad the other side are.
Equality isnt an issue for me
No they arent .. Sf are basing their main arguments on the RHI scandal, previous scandals and equality ... the DUP are just scaremongering re historical insecurities...
Same ole thing again with the erroneous view that both sides are as bad as eachother .... I honestly cant see how you or anyone cannot see the difference .. If we are going to move forward, we have to live in the hear & now ... Would you not agree that the DUP are either grossly incompetent &/or corrupt in their dealings with RHI, Red Sky , Irisgate, Petergate, NAMA etc.....
I dont see how SF bringing that up (as do all the other parties including the UUP by the way) is remotely akin to the DUP simply dredging up supposed bogeymen and trying to scare the bejasus out of their electorate .. who unfortunately fall for the same ole dung every time ::)
Also, equality is the main issue for me ..
What part of your life is currently effected by inequality?
Understand things were bad however I can't see how equality is what SF will now try to deliver.
In what areas?
AF is a sc**bag no doubt as are most of the DUP but the same could be said of others involved in political parties
Did youse even read my post ? .. it was actually about the DUPs scaremongering .. not a gripe about inequality ...
If you had, (instead of picking one line and jumping down my throat ::)) you would have seen mention of little things like RedSky, Irisgate, Petergate, NAMA, RHI etc.... the list goes on..
However, if you consider it "equality" when gobshites from the DUP (or any party/side for that matter) can and do line their own pockets and those of their friends and cronies then you havent a clue what the term equality means ... the DUP have continuously and quite blatantly abused the power they have been given .... This abuse is inequality in itself .. All these millions going in a direction of the DUP's making instead of to the services where they are vitally needed ... is that not inequality ?
FFS Peter the Punt is now working for a NAMA contractor .. WTF .. imagine if that was Gerry Adams or Martin McGuinness .... the uproar would be insane ... is that equality?
You could also consider LBGT issues that are NOT being treated with equality, now is that coming from SF or the DUP ?
An Irish Language act (which scotland & wales have) which personally doesnt mean that much to me but it certainly does to some people ... how would you consider their response to that ..
Legacy issues ... the DUP approach is if themuns are getting anything we're prefer no one to get anything ..
I could go on about the above and other things that were supposedly agreed at the various peace deals .. but which have not happened because the DUP have reneged.. ..
.. Would you not consider all this inequality ? ... I would ..
As well as that, we all have to make sure that the DUP dont drag us back to a past situation where as we all know, inequality was much greater than it is now .. and thats essentially what the DUP and hardline unionists would love to see ... and aspire to..
BTW - If you read my initial post I finished by saying equality was an issue for me, in response to someone who said it "wasnt" an issue for them ... It wasn't my reason for posting.. In fact I believe its certainly much better now but its far from perfect, but it will always remain an issue for me as I remember the past .... Equality should always be an issue for everyone in NI..
Also, I didnt say it was just down to SF to deliver equality ...
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 09:58:24 AM
Depends if your husband is representative of the non voter or an outlier. I can counter that with a good friend who won't be voting for the first time in his life. I live in F&ST and anecdotally I don't get a sense of a huge uplift in the turnout, I'd be surprised if we break 60% overall in NI. But then I got Brexit and Trump wrong so WTF do I know!
I was a committed voter up until a week or so ago but I must admit I'm falling into the "why bother" camp. My only motivation left is to "vote against" Snarlene since she stands here.
If people do not vote, then they should complain about the outcome.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/peter-geoghegan-adam-ramsay/mysterious-dup-brexit-donation-plot-thickens
This is all a bit surreal
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 08:47:46 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 28, 2017, 07:51:54 PM
So what "equality" do nationalists not have at the minute ? Curious and not trolling
Just my opinion but I feel that the DUP and a large cohort of UUP supporters don't regard my Irish identity as equal to their British and don't regard my desire/aspiration for a United Ireland as equal to theirs to remain a part of the UK, my flag doesn't fly over any public building and I live my life almost totally framed in a "Northern Ireland" context because that's the official position.
Remember, you cannot legislate to change someone's opinion.
Northern Ireland is where you live like it or not. Why do you expect the flag of a foreign country to be given the same status as the flag of the UK.
Do the Ukraine government fly the Russian flag because a certain percentage of Ukrainians are of Russian extraction?
Your attraction to another country can be solved by going to live there. Otherwise continue where you are until a majority there believe that they would be better off in a united Ireland. Thats the G.F.A. position Gerry and the boys accepted
Whatever happened to Parity of Esteem?
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 04:25:50 PM
Any predictions?? If TV viewing figures are any guide they were well up for the debates this time compared to last May. A significantly increased turnout throws a few balls in the air. I think the smaller parties will get a good uplift in votes but that probably won't transfer to seats e.g. Greens are predicted to up their no 1s by 30%-40% but across 18 constituencies that won't get more seats. I predict Claire Bailey will keep her seat in S Belfast. Similarly I've a gut feeling that Alliance will have a good election in terms of votes and will probably keep their 8 seats (though the SDLP are bigging up Roisin Lynch in S Antrim so David Ford could be under pressure). Quite a few 5th seats will be very tight. So, something like (+ or - 2 for the bigger parties)??
DUP 30
Sinn Fein 25
UUP 12
SDLP 10
Alliance 8
Greens 2
PBP 1 (McCann to miss out)
TUV 1
Claire Sugden maybe to hold on 1
Hope that adds up to 90!
So no significant change then?? One wonders why bother heading round
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 08:38:50 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 08:47:46 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 28, 2017, 07:51:54 PM
So what "equality" do nationalists not have at the minute ? Curious and not trolling
Just my opinion but I feel that the DUP and a large cohort of UUP supporters don't regard my Irish identity as equal to their British and don't regard my desire/aspiration for a United Ireland as equal to theirs to remain a part of the UK, my flag doesn't fly over any public building and I live my life almost totally framed in a "Northern Ireland" context because that's the official position.
Remember, you cannot legislate to change someone's opinion.
Northern Ireland is where you live like it or not. Why do you expect the flag of a foreign country to be given the same status as the flag of the UK.
Do the Ukraine government fly the Russian flag because a certain percentage of Ukrainians are of Russian extraction?
Your attraction to another country can be solved by going to live there. Otherwise continue where you are until a majority there believe that they would be better off in a united Ireland. Thats the G.F.A. position Gerry and the boys accepted
Is that you Arlene?? I am not of Irish "extraction". I am Irish.
Northern Irish. Thats the facts of life no matter what you wish. And the Unionists are the same even though they want the British tag.
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 08:38:50 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 08:47:46 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 28, 2017, 07:51:54 PM
So what "equality" do nationalists not have at the minute ? Curious and not trolling
Just my opinion but I feel that the DUP and a large cohort of UUP supporters don't regard my Irish identity as equal to their British and don't regard my desire/aspiration for a United Ireland as equal to theirs to remain a part of the UK, my flag doesn't fly over any public building and I live my life almost totally framed in a "Northern Ireland" context because that's the official position.
Remember, you cannot legislate to change someone's opinion.
Northern Ireland is where you live like it or not. Why do you expect the flag of a foreign country to be given the same status as the flag of the UK.
Do the Ukraine government fly the Russian flag because a certain percentage of Ukrainians are of Russian extraction?
Your attraction to another country can be solved by going to live there. Otherwise continue where you are until a majority there believe that they would be better off in a united Ireland. Thats the G.F.A. position Gerry and the boys accepted
Is that you Arlene?? I am not of Irish "extraction". I am Irish.
That's the spirit, AQMP.
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 08:38:50 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 08:47:46 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 28, 2017, 07:51:54 PM
So what "equality" do nationalists not have at the minute ? Curious and not trolling
Just my opinion but I feel that the DUP and a large cohort of UUP supporters don't regard my Irish identity as equal to their British and don't regard my desire/aspiration for a United Ireland as equal to theirs to remain a part of the UK, my flag doesn't fly over any public building and I live my life almost totally framed in a "Northern Ireland" context because that's the official position.
Remember, you cannot legislate to change someone's opinion.
Northern Ireland is where you live like it or not. Why do you expect the flag of a foreign country to be given the same status as the flag of the UK.
Do the Ukraine government fly the Russian flag because a certain percentage of Ukrainians are of Russian extraction?
Your attraction to another country can be solved by going to live there. Otherwise continue where you are until a majority there believe that they would be better off in a united Ireland. Thats the G.F.A. position Gerry and the boys accepted
Is that you Arlene?? I am not of Irish "extraction". I am Irish.
You are an Irish citizen.
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 08:55:23 PM
Northern Irish. Thats the facts of life no matter what you wish.
I'm Eastern Irish myself. What would be the main difference would you say between Northern Irish and Eastern Irish people?
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 08:47:46 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 28, 2017, 07:51:54 PM
So what "equality" do nationalists not have at the minute ? Curious and not trolling
Just my opinion but I feel that the DUP and a large cohort of UUP supporters don't regard my Irish identity as equal to their British and don't regard my desire/aspiration for a United Ireland as equal to theirs to remain a part of the UK, my flag doesn't fly over any public building and I live my life almost totally framed in a "Northern Ireland" context because that's the official position.
Remember, you cannot legislate to change someone's opinion.
Northern Ireland is where you live like it or not. Why do you expect the flag of a foreign country to be given the same status as the flag of the UK.
Do the Ukraine government fly the Russian flag because a certain percentage of Ukrainians are of Russian extraction?
Your attraction to another country can be solved by going to live there. Otherwise continue where you are until a majority there believe that they would be better off in a united Ireland. Thats the G.F.A. position Gerry and the boys accepted
I see your Dublin
So take your westbrit BS somewhere else
Over 40 percent of the population up here have never excepted the Union Jack as their flag
The same as most of the population in the republic didn't except it when it was flying in Dublin castle
Something tells me if your where around you wouldn't have a problem with it
The GFA was to achieve the same means as armed struggle without the violence ( a move endorsed by all nationalist including myself )
I can empathise with unionist to a certain extent but Westbrits make me puke
Stick your nose back in your Indo or find a unionist thread
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 09:46:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2017, 08:46:38 PM
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 04:25:50 PM
Any predictions?? If TV viewing figures are any guide they were well up for the debates this time compared to last May. A significantly increased turnout throws a few balls in the air. I think the smaller parties will get a good uplift in votes but that probably won't transfer to seats e.g. Greens are predicted to up their no 1s by 30%-40% but across 18 constituencies that won't get more seats. I predict Claire Bailey will keep her seat in S Belfast. Similarly I've a gut feeling that Alliance will have a good election in terms of votes and will probably keep their 8 seats (though the SDLP are bigging up Roisin Lynch in S Antrim so David Ford could be under pressure). Quite a few 5th seats will be very tight. So, something like (+ or - 2 for the bigger parties)??
DUP 30
Sinn Fein 25
UUP 12
SDLP 10
Alliance 8
Greens 2
PBP 1 (McCann to miss out)
TUV 1
Claire Sugden maybe to hold on 1
Hope that adds up to 90!
So no significant change then?? One wonders why bother heading round
That's just my best guess MR2. Could be wrong. Going down to 5 seats per constituency does add a bit of the unknown and as I said turnout will be key. Anything over 65% and all bets could be off.
I wouldn't know any DUP voters (well they wouldn't say it out loud) but most prods I know have had a very strong view on how the politics have been fecked up recently and want change.... whether that comes across tomorrow in the moment at the ballot box is another thing...
I've my list sorted as does my wife, hopefully people will cop on and if they don't I'll not bother again, as it proves people are stupid, fearful and happy with the status quo
If brexit and trump taught us anything it's that people are fearful and stupid.
Expect a turnout heading just north of 50% and a return of the standing order..
Quote from: armaghniac on March 01, 2017, 09:49:51 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 08:55:23 PM
Northern Irish. Thats the facts of life no matter what you wish.
I'm Eastern Irish myself. What would be the main difference would you say between Northern Irish and Eastern Irish people?
There's no Eastern Ireland football team for you to get behind.
Don't many say the Bann and the Shannon are the real lines of partition on this island ?
Quote from: michaelg on March 01, 2017, 11:50:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 01, 2017, 09:49:51 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 08:55:23 PM
Northern Irish. Thats the facts of life no matter what you wish.
I'm Eastern Irish myself. What would be the main difference would you say between Northern Irish and Eastern Irish people?
There's no Eastern Ireland football team for you to get behind.
Regions generally don't have soccer teams.
Quote from: ashman on March 01, 2017, 11:58:21 PM
Don't many say the Bann and the Shannon are the real lines of partition on this island ?
Quite, pure muck savages to the west of those rivers.
I wouldn't know any DUP voters (well they wouldn't say it out loud) but most prods I know have had a very strong view on how the politics have been fecked up recently and want change.... whether that comes across tomorrow in the moment at the ballot box is another thing...
I've my list sorted as does my wife, hopefully people will cop on and if they don't I'll not bother again, as it proves people are stupid, fearful and happy with the status quo
[/quote]
Change as in the UUP or change as in the Alliance Party ?
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 01, 2017, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 08:47:46 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 28, 2017, 07:51:54 PM
So what "equality" do nationalists not have at the minute ? Curious and not trolling
Just my opinion but I feel that the DUP and a large cohort of UUP supporters don't regard my Irish identity as equal to their British and don't regard my desire/aspiration for a United Ireland as equal to theirs to remain a part of the UK, my flag doesn't fly over any public building and I live my life almost totally framed in a "Northern Ireland" context because that's the official position.
Remember, you cannot legislate to change someone's opinion.
Northern Ireland is where you live like it or not. Why do you expect the flag of a foreign country to be given the same status as the flag of the UK.
Do the Ukraine government fly the Russian flag because a certain percentage of Ukrainians are of Russian extraction?
Your attraction to another country can be solved by going to live there. Otherwise continue where you are until a majority there believe that they would be better off in a united Ireland. Thats the G.F.A. position Gerry and the boys accepted
I see your Dublin
So take your westbrit BS somewhere else
Over 40 percent of the population up here have never excepted the Union Jack as their flag
The same as most of the population in the republic didn't except it when it was flying in Dublin castle
Something tells me if your where around you wouldn't have a problem with it
The GFA was to achieve the same means as armed struggle without the violence ( a move endorsed by all nationalist including myself )
I can empathise with unionist to a certain extent but Westbrits make me puke
Stick your nose back in your Indo or find a unionist thread
Well said Hound , not all of us southerners are West Brits !
Quote from: ashman on March 01, 2017, 11:58:21 PM
Don't many say the Bann and the Shannon are the real lines of partition on this island ?
The Shannon is the border between hell and Connacht
Quote from: Horse Box on March 02, 2017, 12:47:09 AM
I wouldn't know any DUP voters (well they wouldn't say it out loud) but most prods I know have had a very strong view on how the politics have been fecked up recently and want change.... whether that comes across tomorrow in the moment at the ballot box is another thing...
I've my list sorted as does my wife, hopefully people will cop on and if they don't I'll not bother again, as it proves people are stupid, fearful and happy with the status quo
Change as in the UUP or change as in the Alliance Party ?
[/quote]
Who knows, personally I think they won't vote, a lot of dissatisfied prods, they'll never vote for the shinners as no Catholic will vote DUP very understandable, it would require all parties to drop the green and orange shite and go for real politics like I've mentioned before we see proper change
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 01, 2017, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 08:47:46 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 28, 2017, 07:51:54 PM
So what "equality" do nationalists not have at the minute ? Curious and not trolling
Just my opinion but I feel that the DUP and a large cohort of UUP supporters don't regard my Irish identity as equal to their British and don't regard my desire/aspiration for a United Ireland as equal to theirs to remain a part of the UK, my flag doesn't fly over any public building and I live my life almost totally framed in a "Northern Ireland" context because that's the official position.
Remember, you cannot legislate to change someone's opinion.
Northern Ireland is where you live like it or not. Why do you expect the flag of a foreign country to be given the same status as the flag of the UK.
Do the Ukraine government fly the Russian flag because a certain percentage of Ukrainians are of Russian extraction?
Your attraction to another country can be solved by going to live there. Otherwise continue where you are until a majority there believe that they would be better off in a united Ireland. Thats the G.F.A. position Gerry and the boys accepted
I see your Dublin
So take your westbrit BS somewhere else
Over 40 percent of the population up here have never excepted the Union Jack as their flag
The same as most of the population in the republic didn't except it when it was flying in Dublin castle
Something tells me if your where around you wouldn't have a problem with it
The GFA was to achieve the same means as armed struggle without the violence ( a move endorsed by all nationalist including myself )
I can empathise with unionist to a certain extent but Westbrits make me puke
Stick your nose back in your Indo or find a unionist thread
A big jump to conclusions because someone had a Dublin Base. Bad enough one crowd living in the 1690s but using West Brit as an insult is so 1970 especially from one whose education (limited as it is) was paid for by Johnny Brit over in Barnsley and is in receipt of welfare from the same source
Northern Ireland is just a bigger version of Ballaghaderreen . Andy Moran is a Rossie.
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 02, 2017, 07:55:12 AM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 01, 2017, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 08:47:46 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 28, 2017, 07:51:54 PM
So what "equality" do nationalists not have at the minute ? Curious and not trolling
Just my opinion but I feel that the DUP and a large cohort of UUP supporters don't regard my Irish identity as equal to their British and don't regard my desire/aspiration for a United Ireland as equal to theirs to remain a part of the UK, my flag doesn't fly over any public building and I live my life almost totally framed in a "Northern Ireland" context because that's the official position.
Remember, you cannot legislate to change someone's opinion.
Northern Ireland is where you live like it or not. Why do you expect the flag of a foreign country to be given the same status as the flag of the UK.
Do the Ukraine government fly the Russian flag because a certain percentage of Ukrainians are of Russian extraction?
Your attraction to another country can be solved by going to live there. Otherwise continue where you are until a majority there believe that they would be better off in a united Ireland. Thats the G.F.A. position Gerry and the boys accepted
I see your Dublin
So take your westbrit BS somewhere else
Over 40 percent of the population up here have never excepted the Union Jack as their flag
The same as most of the population in the republic didn't except it when it was flying in Dublin castle
Something tells me if your where around you wouldn't have a problem with it
The GFA was to achieve the same means as armed struggle without the violence ( a move endorsed by all nationalist including myself )
I can empathise with unionist to a certain extent but Westbrits make me puke
Stick your nose back in your Indo or find a unionist thread
A big jump to conclusions because someone had a Dublin Base. Bad enough one crowd living in the 1690s but using West Brit as an insult is so 1970 especially from one whose education (limited as it is) was paid for by Johnny Brit over in Barnsley and is in receipt of welfare from the same source
f**k up westbrit
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 02, 2017, 07:55:12 AM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 01, 2017, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 08:47:46 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 28, 2017, 07:51:54 PM
So what "equality" do nationalists not have at the minute ? Curious and not trolling
Just my opinion but I feel that the DUP and a large cohort of UUP supporters don't regard my Irish identity as equal to their British and don't regard my desire/aspiration for a United Ireland as equal to theirs to remain a part of the UK, my flag doesn't fly over any public building and I live my life almost totally framed in a "Northern Ireland" context because that's the official position.
Remember, you cannot legislate to change someone's opinion.
Northern Ireland is where you live like it or not. Why do you expect the flag of a foreign country to be given the same status as the flag of the UK.
Do the Ukraine government fly the Russian flag because a certain percentage of Ukrainians are of Russian extraction?
Your attraction to another country can be solved by going to live there. Otherwise continue where you are until a majority there believe that they would be better off in a united Ireland. Thats the G.F.A. position Gerry and the boys accepted
I see your Dublin
So take your westbrit BS somewhere else
Over 40 percent of the population up here have never excepted the Union Jack as their flag
The same as most of the population in the republic didn't except it when it was flying in Dublin castle
Something tells me if your where around you wouldn't have a problem with it
The GFA was to achieve the same means as armed struggle without the violence ( a move endorsed by all nationalist including myself )
I can empathise with unionist to a certain extent but Westbrits make me puke
Stick your nose back in your Indo or find a unionist thread
A big jump to conclusions because someone had a Dublin Base. Bad enough one crowd living in the 1690s but using West Brit as an insult is so 1970 especially from one whose education (limited as it is) was paid for by Johnny Brit over in Barnsley and is in receipt of welfare from the same source
Eh...it's not as if the people in NI had any choice, but carry on...
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 08:47:46 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 28, 2017, 07:51:54 PM
So what "equality" do nationalists not have at the minute ? Curious and not trolling
Just my opinion but I feel that the DUP and a large cohort of UUP supporters don't regard my Irish identity as equal to their British and don't regard my desire/aspiration for a United Ireland as equal to theirs to remain a part of the UK, my flag doesn't fly over any public building and I live my life almost totally framed in a "Northern Ireland" context because that's the official position.
Remember, you cannot legislate to change someone's opinion.
Northern Ireland is where you live like it or not. Why do you expect the flag of a foreign country to be given the same status as the flag of the UK.
Do the Ukraine government fly the Russian flag because a certain percentage of Ukrainians are of Russian extraction?
Your attraction to another country can be solved by going to live there. Otherwise continue where you are until a majority there believe that they would be better off in a united Ireland. Thats the G.F.A. position Gerry and the boys accepted
NI is an artificial state created by the threat of terrorism and revolution/rebellion/treason. It has never been treated as normal part of the UK, even unionists don't treat it as such. It is not unreasonable for the state to recognise at an official level the ethnicity of 45% of the population. The GFA gives equal status to both nationalities so why not reflect this. The Union fleg now only represents about 48% of the population, give or take.
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2017, 08:37:44 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 02, 2017, 07:55:12 AM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 01, 2017, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 08:47:46 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 28, 2017, 07:51:54 PM
So what "equality" do nationalists not have at the minute ? Curious and not trolling
Just my opinion but I feel that the DUP and a large cohort of UUP supporters don't regard my Irish identity as equal to their British and don't regard my desire/aspiration for a United Ireland as equal to theirs to remain a part of the UK, my flag doesn't fly over any public building and I live my life almost totally framed in a "Northern Ireland" context because that's the official position.
Remember, you cannot legislate to change someone's opinion.
Northern Ireland is where you live like it or not. Why do you expect the flag of a foreign country to be given the same status as the flag of the UK.
Do the Ukraine government fly the Russian flag because a certain percentage of Ukrainians are of Russian extraction?
Your attraction to another country can be solved by going to live there. Otherwise continue where you are until a majority there believe that they would be better off in a united Ireland. Thats the G.F.A. position Gerry and the boys accepted
I see your Dublin
So take your westbrit BS somewhere else
Over 40 percent of the population up here have never excepted the Union Jack as their flag
The same as most of the population in the republic didn't except it when it was flying in Dublin castle
Something tells me if your where around you wouldn't have a problem with it
The GFA was to achieve the same means as armed struggle without the violence ( a move endorsed by all nationalist including myself )
I can empathise with unionist to a certain extent but Westbrits make me puke
Stick your nose back in your Indo or find a unionist thread
A big jump to conclusions because someone had a Dublin Base. Bad enough one crowd living in the 1690s but using West Brit as an insult is so 1970 especially from one whose education (limited as it is) was paid for by Johnny Brit over in Barnsley and is in receipt of welfare from the same source
f**k up westbrit
That response proves my point re limited education. Of course teachers can only work with what they are given. They're not miracle workers
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 02, 2017, 09:25:45 AM
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2017, 08:37:44 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 02, 2017, 07:55:12 AM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 01, 2017, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 08:47:46 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 28, 2017, 07:51:54 PM
So what "equality" do nationalists not have at the minute ? Curious and not trolling
Just my opinion but I feel that the DUP and a large cohort of UUP supporters don't regard my Irish identity as equal to their British and don't regard my desire/aspiration for a United Ireland as equal to theirs to remain a part of the UK, my flag doesn't fly over any public building and I live my life almost totally framed in a "Northern Ireland" context because that's the official position.
Remember, you cannot legislate to change someone's opinion.
Northern Ireland is where you live like it or not. Why do you expect the flag of a foreign country to be given the same status as the flag of the UK.
Do the Ukraine government fly the Russian flag because a certain percentage of Ukrainians are of Russian extraction?
Your attraction to another country can be solved by going to live there. Otherwise continue where you are until a majority there believe that they would be better off in a united Ireland. Thats the G.F.A. position Gerry and the boys accepted
I see your Dublin
So take your westbrit BS somewhere else
Over 40 percent of the population up here have never excepted the Union Jack as their flag
The same as most of the population in the republic didn't except it when it was flying in Dublin castle
Something tells me if your where around you wouldn't have a problem with it
The GFA was to achieve the same means as armed struggle without the violence ( a move endorsed by all nationalist including myself )
I can empathise with unionist to a certain extent but Westbrits make me puke
Stick your nose back in your Indo or find a unionist thread
A big jump to conclusions because someone had a Dublin Base. Bad enough one crowd living in the 1690s but using West Brit as an insult is so 1970 especially from one whose education (limited as it is) was paid for by Johnny Brit over in Barnsley and is in receipt of welfare from the same source
f**k up westbrit
That response proves my point re limited education. Of course teachers can only work with what they are given. They're not miracle workers
Oh my, a witty westbrit.
Vote cast - virtually empty polling station at 8.20am in North Belfast. As I knew the other three voters I saw in there, I believe that not a vote or preference would have been cast for the DUP. Oh that the same situation would be replicated everywhere.
I voted at 7.20am, was in and out in less than 5 minutes. I voted SF 1,2,3 and went down the list and omitted Danny Kennedy and William Irwin.
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 02, 2017, 07:55:12 AM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 01, 2017, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 08:47:46 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 28, 2017, 07:51:54 PM
So what "equality" do nationalists not have at the minute ? Curious and not trolling
Just my opinion but I feel that the DUP and a large cohort of UUP supporters don't regard my Irish identity as equal to their British and don't regard my desire/aspiration for a United Ireland as equal to theirs to remain a part of the UK, my flag doesn't fly over any public building and I live my life almost totally framed in a "Northern Ireland" context because that's the official position.
Remember, you cannot legislate to change someone's opinion.
Northern Ireland is where you live like it or not. Why do you expect the flag of a foreign country to be given the same status as the flag of the UK.
Do the Ukraine government fly the Russian flag because a certain percentage of Ukrainians are of Russian extraction?
Your attraction to another country can be solved by going to live there. Otherwise continue where you are until a majority there believe that they would be better off in a united Ireland. Thats the G.F.A. position Gerry and the boys accepted
I see your Dublin
So take your westbrit BS somewhere else
Over 40 percent of the population up here have never excepted the Union Jack as their flag
The same as most of the population in the republic didn't except it when it was flying in Dublin castle
Something tells me if your where around you wouldn't have a problem with it
The GFA was to achieve the same means as armed struggle without the violence ( a move endorsed by all nationalist including myself )
I can empathise with unionist to a certain extent but Westbrits make me puke
Stick your nose back in your Indo or find a unionist thread
A big jump to conclusions because someone had a Dublin Base. Bad enough one crowd living in the 1690s but using West Brit as an insult is so 1970 especially from one whose education (limited as it is) was paid for by Johnny Brit over in Barnsley and is in receipt of welfare from the same source
Wrong again,
Nationalist education in the north is paid by funds from the rates on housing in the north
My parents where hard working people and never received money from the British state
And neither have I
the nationalist who depended on welfare as they couldn't get work due to there religion I have no problem with that although I will acknowledge some are just spongers just like some in the republic
I have enough education and have travelled and worked all over this island enough to recognise a westbrit when I see one
You don't seem to be that well read yourself and maybe you should come up here and live
You seem to have that inherent judgemental bigot gene that's required to be a staunch unionist
Right South Belfast
1 Hanna sdlp 2 Mom sf 3 Gallagher sdlp 4 Bailey green 5 mcdonough alliance 6 Burns lab 7 kerr wp 8 Henderson uup. The rest can feck off including dont know what party I am this week Bradshaw and brexit loving PBP
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 02, 2017, 10:57:37 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 02, 2017, 07:55:12 AM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 01, 2017, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 08:47:46 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 28, 2017, 07:51:54 PM
So what "equality" do nationalists not have at the minute ? Curious and not trolling
Just my opinion but I feel that the DUP and a large cohort of UUP supporters don't regard my Irish identity as equal to their British and don't regard my desire/aspiration for a United Ireland as equal to theirs to remain a part of the UK, my flag doesn't fly over any public building and I live my life almost totally framed in a "Northern Ireland" context because that's the official position.
Remember, you cannot legislate to change someone's opinion.
Northern Ireland is where you live like it or not. Why do you expect the flag of a foreign country to be given the same status as the flag of the UK.
Do the Ukraine government fly the Russian flag because a certain percentage of Ukrainians are of Russian extraction?
Your attraction to another country can be solved by going to live there. Otherwise continue where you are until a majority there believe that they would be better off in a united Ireland. Thats the G.F.A. position Gerry and the boys accepted
I see your Dublin
So take your westbrit BS somewhere else
Over 40 percent of the population up here have never excepted the Union Jack as their flag
The same as most of the population in the republic didn't except it when it was flying in Dublin castle
Something tells me if your where around you wouldn't have a problem with it
The GFA was to achieve the same means as armed struggle without the violence ( a move endorsed by all nationalist including myself )
I can empathise with unionist to a certain extent but Westbrits make me puke
Stick your nose back in your Indo or find a unionist thread
A big jump to conclusions because someone had a Dublin Base. Bad enough one crowd living in the 1690s but using West Brit as an insult is so 1970 especially from one whose education (limited as it is) was paid for by Johnny Brit over in Barnsley and is in receipt of welfare from the same source
Wrong again,
Nationalist education in the north is paid by funds from the rates on housing in the north
My parents where hard working people and never received money from the British state
And neither have I
the nationalist who depended on welfare as they couldn't get work due to there religion I have no problem with that although I will acknowledge some are just spongers just like some in the republic
I have enough education and have travelled and worked all over this island enough to recognise a westbrit when I see one
You don't seem to be that well read yourself and maybe you should come up here and live
You seem to have that inherent judgemental bigot gene that's required to be a staunch unionist
Yep, pretty much sums up most Northern folks stories on here I would guess ...
Avondhu star Sorry, Ruth Dudley Edwards, you really havent a clue old chap ::) .. but you are funny ;)
South Down
1 - AP. 2 - GP 3 - SDLP, 4 - SDLP, 5 - SF, 6 - SF, 7 - UUP, 8 - CONS, 9 - TUV
No votes for DUP or local independent
A lot of folk here making a virtue of giving "Nattin" to the DUP.
I suspect this is not a change in voting behaviour.
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 08:55:23 PM
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 08:38:50 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 01, 2017, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: AQMP on March 01, 2017, 08:47:46 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 28, 2017, 07:51:54 PM
So what "equality" do nationalists not have at the minute ? Curious and not trolling
Just my opinion but I feel that the DUP and a large cohort of UUP supporters don't regard my Irish identity as equal to their British and don't regard my desire/aspiration for a United Ireland as equal to theirs to remain a part of the UK, my flag doesn't fly over any public building and I live my life almost totally framed in a "Northern Ireland" context because that's the official position.
Remember, you cannot legislate to change someone's opinion.
Northern Ireland is where you live like it or not. Why do you expect the flag of a foreign country to be given the same status as the flag of the UK.
Do the Ukraine government fly the Russian flag because a certain percentage of Ukrainians are of Russian extraction?
Your attraction to another country can be solved by going to live there. Otherwise continue where you are until a majority there believe that they would be better off in a united Ireland. Thats the G.F.A. position Gerry and the boys accepted
Is that you Arlene?? I am not of Irish "extraction". I am Irish.
Northern Irish. Thats the facts of life no matter what you wish. And the Unionists are the same even though they want the British tag.
Absolute rubbish on so many levels, least of which there is no such thing as Northern Irish nationality. You will find most people in NI class themselves as Irish or British with a substantial number of Polish and other nationalities.
Quote from: ashman on March 02, 2017, 12:27:40 PM
A lot of folk here making a virtue of giving "Nattin" to the DUP.
I suspect this is not a change in voting behaviour.
No true, I have never voted DUP anyway, but I've never given a preference to UUP before, and I did this time. Also left out a SF candidate who I can't stand the sound of (Caral Ni Chuilin). And preferred the centre parties before Gerry Kelly from SF.
The 12pm turnout is encouraging in most areas. Fingers crossed, the higher the turnout the better for nationalism.
Quote from: Rois on March 02, 2017, 12:32:51 PM
Quote from: ashman on March 02, 2017, 12:27:40 PM
A lot of folk here making a virtue of giving "Nattin" to the DUP.
I suspect this is not a change in voting behaviour.
No true, I have never voted DUP anyway, but I've never given a preference to UUP before, and I did this time. Also left out a SF candidate who I can't stand the sound of (Caral Ni Chuilin). And preferred the centre parties before Gerry Kelly from SF.
Would love to see SF get rid of her, absolute bomb scare (no pun intended) every time she speaks, any where on any subject.
When does the counting start? 10pm or tomorrow?
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on March 02, 2017, 01:21:27 PM
When does the counting start? 10pm or tomorrow?
For assembly elections its usually starts the next day
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on March 02, 2017, 01:21:27 PM
When does the counting start? 10pm or tomorrow?
Heard the election commission lady on the radio this morn. Tonight they sort out all the spoiled or invalid votes and counting starts tomorrow.
First results due tomorrow afternoon.
Can't be bothered voting.
But will turn up tonight at 9:00 for 4 hours for "overnight verification" as it's called. Hopefully, away for 12:30-01:00 & a ton in the sky rocket from EONI in 6 weeks time.
just giving yez a wee shout in..
seeing what's happening..
gonna head out to vote now and see who's about.
just speaking to a shinner earlier he say over 600 voters he registered didn't get their cards some did come in the afternoon post..
lawnseed
You don't need your polling card to vote but it's handy for the information to get you there if you don't know where you should be going.
Turn out up across Northern Ireland , could mean bad news for the first minister !
Quote from: stiffler on March 02, 2017, 05:52:09 PM
Turn out up across Northern Ireland , could mean bad news for the first minister !
Or has her scare tactic got the Unionist vote out ?
Quote from: Horse Box on March 02, 2017, 06:02:43 PM
Quote from: stiffler on March 02, 2017, 05:52:09 PM
Turn out up across Northern Ireland , could mean bad news for the first minister !
Or has her scare tactic got the Unionist vote out ?
38% in Sandy Row @ 5pm so I would say the unionist vote is out
Went 1. SF 2. SF 3. GP 4. WP 5. SDLP 6. AP
Unionist parties in Upper Bann have a long proven track record of bigotry so it will be a while before they find themselves getting a preference on my ballot paper.
Quote from: general_lee on March 02, 2017, 06:19:35 PM
Went 1. SF 2. SF 3. GP 4. WP 5. SDLP 6. AP
Unionist parties in Upper Bann have a long proven track record of bigotry so it will be a while before they find themselves getting a preference on my ballot paper.
They do, but it may be that one is more bigoted than the other. Or you could just vote for non incumbent candidates to move things around.
voted; SF 1+2, SDLP 3+4, ALL 5, GP 6 in south down. even got the missus out to vote for 1st time in ages.
as LAD said 'get your holes to the polls'.
Quote from: Rois on March 02, 2017, 05:42:10 PM
You don't need your polling card to vote but it's handy for the information to get you there if you don't know where you should be going.
Indeed.. A good few round our way, inc ourselves didn't get cards. In and tell them where you live and they'll point you to the right room... Vote early and often!
Finally decided to vote and went for SDLP, Alliance & UUP.
Almost felt like a traitor or I should be hiding but the crowd currently/previously on the hill had no interest in helping Joe Piblic so would give the other crowds a turn (I realise it is highly unlikely and it will be the same old shite)
Quote from: Taylor on March 02, 2017, 08:58:33 PM
Finally decided to vote and went for SDLP, Alliance & UUP.
Almost felt like a traitor or I should be hiding but the crowd currently/previously on the hill had no interest in helping Joe Piblic so would give the other crowds a turn (I realise it is highly unlikely and it will be the same old shite)
Yeah SF talking as if we will get something different if they are returned biggest party. Would love to know what will be different, as they will still be joined at the hip with DUP
Looks like turnover is up all over which is great!!
You would like to think TUV and Mike TV have made some inroads into the DUP a dilution of the Unionist vote would be great. Fingers crossed but I'm hoping an increased Unionist vote means more votes against the DUP!!
Voted for the first time in 06/07...still think we are only rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic....hope i am wrong though...
In our house we all went with the opposition: 1.SDLP 2.UUP 3.Green 4. Alliance in West Tyrone
Turn-out seems to be up across the board. 80% in places like Draperstown and Roslea.
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 02, 2017, 09:16:34 PM
In our house we all went with the opposition: 1.SDLP 2.UUP 3.Green 4. Alliance in West Tyrone
None of the independents?
Looks like a massive increase in turnout.
Arlene has done a great job at increasing voter turnout.
Amazingly Arlene has increased turnout across NI.
It remains to be seen is this an increase of knuckledragger loyalists or of people wanting a change for the better
Quote from: FermGael on March 02, 2017, 09:41:36 PM
Looks like a massive increase in turnout.
Arlene has done a great job at increasing voter turnout.
Let us hope they put her last on the ballot in FST.
West Tyrone out in force around Trillick anyway
(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3c7bc65bbf155527101de2fbf0d50b5a7b8864f867512fc8629dcf3613d3e709.jpg?w=600&h=568)
SF 1,2 & 3 in Newry & Armagh. Apparently a very high turnout in our Polling Station.
QuotePaul Crossan @PCrossan8 4m4 minutes ago
We expect the full make-up to be this: Give and take 1 either way. DUP 34 SF 25 UUP 10 Alliance 8 SDLP 8 Others 5 #ae17
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 02, 2017, 10:06:59 PM
QuotePaul Crossan @PCrossan8 4m4 minutes ago
We expect the full make-up to be this: Give and take 1 either way. DUP 34 SF 25 UUP 10 Alliance 8 SDLP 8 Others 5 #ae17
Was a bit skeptical but apparently they got it basically spot on in last year's election so who knows. He could be talking out of his arse though, not sure what his data is and never heard of him.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 02, 2017, 10:06:59 PM
QuotePaul Crossan @PCrossan8 4m4 minutes ago
We expect the full make-up to be this: Give and take 1 either way. DUP 34 SF 25 UUP 10 Alliance 8 SDLP 8 Others 5 #ae17
That is the highest estimate I have seen for DUP yet. Most estimates have been round 30-32.
Very disappointing if it turns out to be accurate.
DUP could be in trouble in N Belfast, looks like their normal staunch working class areas have not come out
If the DUP get the same vote then N.I deserves to be the biggest laughing stock of Europe.... Who da feck votes for Arlene based on what her track record has been lately???????
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2017, 10:22:13 PM
If the DUP get the same vote then N.I deserves to be the biggest laughing stock of Europe.... Who da feck votes for Arlene based on what her track record has been lately???????
Well if they weren't put off by Red Sky and Nama and a myriad other scandals...but we shall see.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2017, 10:22:13 PM
If the DUP get the same vote then N.I deserves to be the biggest laughing stock of Europe.... Who da feck votes for Arlene based on what her track record has been lately???????
Exactly right, this has the potential to be the most depressing election ever. We are well and truly fucked if the DUP remain the same/improve their vote. Will show without question the type of Neanderthals we are dealing with. Do these people have no standards, respect for themselves?
Please let us have a result that goes beyond green/orange, it's 2017 ffs!
Quote from: Ty4Sam on March 02, 2017, 10:33:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2017, 10:22:13 PM
If the DUP get the same vote then N.I deserves to be the biggest laughing stock of Europe.... Who da feck votes for Arlene based on what her track record has been lately???????
Exactly right, this has the potential to be the most depressing election ever. We are well and truly fucked if the DUP remain the same/improve their vote. Will show without question the type of Neanderthals we are dealing with. Do these people have no standards, respect for themselves?
Please let us have a result that goes beyond green/orange, it's 2017 ffs!
There will never be large scale voting here on anything other than green/orange. Suits DUP/SF too much, too much to lose
It'll always be Green/Orange but the UUP would be a welcome change over the DUP.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 02, 2017, 10:11:30 PM
Very disappointing if it turns out to be accurate.
it would mean the DUP declined less than the number of seats, not a good result for sanity.
On a lighter note
(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/C121/production/_94914494_voteymcvoteface.png)
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 02, 2017, 10:19:19 PM
DUP could be in trouble in N Belfast, looks like their normal staunch working class areas have not come out
Indeed Mount Vernon
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C58jKA1WQAAO3kD.jpg)
Turnout was 160% in Brookeborough where Arnie Foster voted.
Yes, I did steal the joke from Twitter before someone mentions it.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 02, 2017, 10:36:50 PM
It'll always be Green/Orange but the UUP would be a welcome change over the DUP.
Sinn Fein deserve a period out of power too
Quote from: armaghniac on March 02, 2017, 10:49:12 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 02, 2017, 10:19:19 PM
DUP could be in trouble in N Belfast, looks like their normal staunch working class areas have not come out
Indeed Mount Vernon
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C58jKA1WQAAO3kD.jpg)
Mount Vernon ! Can see a lot of them votes being spoiled , education wouldn`t be a priority there :o !
Quote from: Horse Box on March 03, 2017, 01:38:13 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 02, 2017, 10:49:12 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 02, 2017, 10:19:19 PM
DUP could be in trouble in N Belfast, looks like their normal staunch working class areas have not come out
Indeed Mount Vernon
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C58jKA1WQAAO3kD.jpg)
Mount Vernon ! Can see a lot of them votes being spoiled , education wouldn`t be a priority there :o !
Apparently those figures are periodical and need to be totted up. Still not a massive tally though.
Yeah apparently turnout in Mount Vernon was around 55%
Quote from: Minder on March 03, 2017, 07:17:03 AM
Yeah apparently turnout in Mount Vernon was around 55%
Don't get out of bed till after nine
Quote from: armaghniac on March 02, 2017, 10:49:12 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 02, 2017, 10:19:19 PM
DUP could be in trouble in N Belfast, looks like their normal staunch working class areas have not come out
Indeed Mount Vernon
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C58jKA1WQAAO3kD.jpg)
I presume assembley is the Ulster Scots spelling
What time can we see the voting patterns?
If SF come in as the largest party and DUP come in second I could see them refusing to nominate a deputy first minister.
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on March 03, 2017, 08:46:50 AM
If SF come in as the largest party and DUP come in second I could see them refusing to nominate a deputy first minister.
What in under sweet Jesus makes you think that SF would be the largest party? Is there anything to suggest that this could happen?
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on March 03, 2017, 08:46:50 AM
If SF come in as the largest party and DUP come in second I could see them refusing to nominate a deputy first minister.
Woukd that be preferable to direct rule?
Quote from: StephenC on March 03, 2017, 08:59:57 AM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on March 03, 2017, 08:46:50 AM
If SF come in as the largest party and DUP come in second I could see them refusing to nominate a deputy first minister.
What in under sweet Jesus makes you think that SF would be the largest party? Is there anything to suggest that this could happen?
No
SF may get marginally more votes than the DUP, but will not get more seats as there are 4% of votes going to the TUV that will end up with the DUP in most constituencies. This is just as well, as a SF First Minister would be a distraction at this time.
Quote from: StephenC on March 03, 2017, 08:59:57 AM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on March 03, 2017, 08:46:50 AM
If SF come in as the largest party and DUP come in second I could see them refusing to nominate a deputy first minister.
What in under sweet Jesus makes you think that SF would be the largest party? Is there anything to suggest that this could happen?
Notice I started my statement with IF. I didn't say I think they would be the largest party
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on March 03, 2017, 09:39:20 AM
Quote from: StephenC on March 03, 2017, 08:59:57 AM
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on March 03, 2017, 08:46:50 AM
If SF come in as the largest party and DUP come in second I could see them refusing to nominate a deputy first minister.
What in under sweet Jesus makes you think that SF would be the largest party? Is there anything to suggest that this could happen?
Notice I started my statement with IF. I didn't say I think they would be the largest party
There is a probability that SF might reach parity with the DUP in seats. How does that work with the titles of the ministers.
(unless I'm missing something) It doens't follow that lower turnout in loyalist areas is bad for the dup - low turnout usually would support notion that status quo will be maintained. High turnout however likely to point to others who don't traditionally vote dup turning out to vote for someone else
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on March 03, 2017, 08:46:50 AM
If SF come in as the largest party and DUP come in second I could see them refusing to nominate a deputy first minister.
I could also see SF not wanting to work with the DUP
On the Nolan Show this morning the former editor was brought back to give his thoughts on the collapse of the institutions. He was the editor of the show before taking a high profile job as the top spin doctor for the executive office (OFMDFM).
On asked for his analysis of the issues he said that there are elements in DUP and in SF who have priorities/issues that are always incompatible and this resulted in their inability to share power. The leaders were unable to bring these bases in their respective parties to the point of co-existence never mind any reconciliation.
As would be the case with the SDLP/UUP, no?
Can't see the DUP lose any ground at all
Their electorate maybe don't approve of all the corruption but it's the lesser evil of having nationalist on equal terms
DUPs election campaign was all about invoking fear on this and compromising the unionists
In their eyes they are the master race and everyone else needs put back in their box when they get notions above their station
What would be wrong with all of them getting together and having a government with:
Joint First Minister - Nationalist/Unionist
Joint Finance Minister - from two different parties that can somewhat agree
Joint Health Minister - as above
Joint Education Minister - as above
Joint Brexit Minster - going to need that!
etc etc
Would like all the leaders especially Long to be part of the government. In fact she would be a brilliant First Minister on her own! Only way for it to work is to make them work together, not carve up depts. between SF and DUP and let them run it THEIR way! How about running depts. OUR way.
This place could be so prosperous if people were smart about it. We could be help up as an example to the rest of the world and could get money from UK, Europe, US, Far East........use the "everybody loves the Irish" and the "sure my ancestors came from Ireland" and whatever else it takes to get investment.
But what do we do?
Worry about flags and walking down roads and talking about a United Ireland (prob more people would vote for that in England than Ireland!!!!)
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 03, 2017, 10:22:56 AM
Can't see the DUP lose any ground at all
Their electorate maybe don't approve of all the corruption but it's the lesser evil of having nationalist on equal terms
DUPs election campaign was all about invoking fear on this and compromising the unionists
In their eyes they are the master race and everyone else needs put back in their box when they get notions above their station
The DUP electorate may approve of their carry on, but they are only quarter of the population. Let the other three-quarters have a say.
Quote from: The Trap on March 03, 2017, 10:26:21 AM
What would be wrong with all of them getting together and having a government with:
Joint First Minister - Nationalist/Unionist
Joint Finance Minister - from two different parties that can somewhat agree
Joint Health Minister - as above
Joint Education Minister - as above
Joint Brexit Minster - going to need that!
etc etc
Would like all the leaders especially Long to be part of the government. In fact she would be a brilliant First Minister on her own! Only way for it to work is to make them work together, not carve up depts. between SF and DUP and let them run it THEIR way! How about running depts. OUR way.
This place could be so prosperous if people were smart about it. We could be help up as an example to the rest of the world and could get money from UK, Europe, US, Far East........use the "everybody loves the Irish" and the "sure my ancestors came from Ireland" and whatever else it takes to get investment.
But what do we do?
Worry about flags and walking down roads and talking about a United Ireland (prob more people would vote for that in England than Ireland!!!!)
I'd say the DUP Ministers would be right behind that plan considering they deny that they are Irish at every opportunity.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 03, 2017, 10:09:49 AM
As would be the case with the SDLP/UUP, no?
UUP lost its unionist supremacy years ago by embracing the nationalist representation as power sharing equals and would have to endorse a hate nationalist campaign to win back the lost vote
Their moderate diplomacy ruined them
The status quo will be maintained to Scotlands electorate pluck up the courage and take the leap to independence
Then the union will fall and its game on
Quote from: The Trap on March 03, 2017, 10:26:21 AM
What would be wrong with all of them getting together and having a government with:
Joint First Minister - Nationalist/Unionist
Joint Finance Minister - from two different parties that can somewhat agree
Joint Health Minister - as above
Joint Education Minister - as above
Joint Brexit Minster - going to need that!
etc etc
Would like all the leaders especially Long to be part of the government. In fact she would be a brilliant First Minister on her own! Only way for it to work is to make them work together, not carve up depts. between SF and DUP and let them run it THEIR way! How about running depts. OUR way.
This place could be so prosperous if people were smart about it. We could be help up as an example to the rest of the world and could get money from UK, Europe, US, Far East........use the "everybody loves the Irish" and the "sure my ancestors came from Ireland" and whatever else it takes to get investment.
But what do we do?
Worry about flags and walking down roads and talking about a United Ireland (prob more people would vote for that in England than Ireland!!!!)
Why the shinners and SDLP dont hammer away at the sheer cost of running this place to the brits is beyond me, if the average brit knew how much it cost to run this little slice of heaven they would be up in arms!
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on March 03, 2017, 08:46:50 AM
If SF come in as the largest party and DUP come in second I could see them refusing to nominate a deputy first minister.
Funny but I was thinking about this last night ... Although unfortunately I think the DUP will still be the biggest party as their voters are just inane bigots and would vote for the lovechild of Attila the hun & Miley Cyrus (2 horrible cnuts :o ) no mater what nonsense it got up to, as long as it keeps "themuns" out.. God but I hope I'm wrong..
Lets say the DUP have what they would consider "a disappointing" election result ... Would they simply think "well lets just run the election again" .. theoretically they could ... They're arrogant enough to do it and they would think the PUL voters would be re-awakened and vote for them big time in the "next" election .. RHI etc would become even more irrelevant .... Nothing would surprise me in relation to them..
The really horrible scenario is if Snarlene and the DUP hold their vote ... that sends out a terrible message to the DUP that they can do whatever the feck they like and get away with it .... Imagine how arrogant the pricks would be then .. They truly would be unbearable >:(
Also, the more I listen to these bigots the more Im convinced that, if/when the North does have a border poll and the majority of folk decide to leave the union for a UI, there will be a civil war or at least something akin to a civil war ... they wouldnt simply say "ah ok lads fair enough, its a fair cop" .... No chance .... They have reneged on several other major agreements within the peace deals and the border poll would simply be another....
Quote from: stew on March 03, 2017, 10:50:08 AM
Quote from: The Trap on March 03, 2017, 10:26:21 AM
What would be wrong with all of them getting together and having a government with:
Joint First Minister - Nationalist/Unionist
Joint Finance Minister - from two different parties that can somewhat agree
Joint Health Minister - as above
Joint Education Minister - as above
Joint Brexit Minster - going to need that!
etc etc
Would like all the leaders especially Long to be part of the government. In fact she would be a brilliant First Minister on her own! Only way for it to work is to make them work together, not carve up depts. between SF and DUP and let them run it THEIR way! How about running depts. OUR way.
This place could be so prosperous if people were smart about it. We could be help up as an example to the rest of the world and could get money from UK, Europe, US, Far East........use the "everybody loves the Irish" and the "sure my ancestors came from Ireland" and whatever else it takes to get investment.
But what do we do?
Worry about flags and walking down roads and talking about a United Ireland (prob more people would vote for that in England than Ireland!!!!)
Why the shinners and SDLP dont hammer away at the sheer cost of running this place to the brits is beyond me, if the average brit knew how much it cost to run this little slice of heaven they would be up in arms!
[/quote
No point at the minute as those figures would be smudged
Treasa May is an old type Tory and might need the unionists behind her in Westminster
But as one sided as she is her no compromise attitudes and full steam into brexit might just push the Scots over the edge in the future
interesting times all the same
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 03, 2017, 10:35:55 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 03, 2017, 10:09:49 AM
As would be the case with the SDLP/UUP, no?
UUP lost its unionist supremacy years ago by embracing the nationalist representation as power sharing equals and would have to endorse a hate nationalist campaign to win back the lost vote
Their moderate diplomacy ruined them
The status quo will be maintained to Scotlands electorate pluck up the courage and take the leap to independence
Then the union will fall and its game on
Yeah the sooner the SNP get it sorted the better .. It would fairly put the cat among the pigeons !!
The only thing is that if Scotland were to become independent the DUPers of this world would be looking to unite with them ::) .... they'd be looking that Bridge built again .. FFS Jim Allister, lovely chap that he is, is looking the money for the A5 to be spent on Scottish roads instead ...
but thankfully I doubt the SNP would be interested..
From early reports it looks like it will be the status quo.......depressing shite and back to more uncertainty and he said/she said.
Meanwhile budget deadlines are missed/health service suffers etc etc etc
Quote from: stew on March 03, 2017, 10:50:08 AM
Quote from: The Trap on March 03, 2017, 10:26:21 AM
What would be wrong with all of them getting together and having a government with:
Joint First Minister - Nationalist/Unionist
Joint Finance Minister - from two different parties that can somewhat agree
Joint Health Minister - as above
Joint Education Minister - as above
Joint Brexit Minster - going to need that!
etc etc
Would like all the leaders especially Long to be part of the government. In fact she would be a brilliant First Minister on her own! Only way for it to work is to make them work together, not carve up depts. between SF and DUP and let them run it THEIR way! How about running depts. OUR way.
This place could be so prosperous if people were smart about it. We could be help up as an example to the rest of the world and could get money from UK, Europe, US, Far East........use the "everybody loves the Irish" and the "sure my ancestors came from Ireland" and whatever else it takes to get investment.
But what do we do?
Worry about flags and walking down roads and talking about a United Ireland (prob more people would vote for that in England than Ireland!!!!)
Why the shinners and SDLP dont hammer away at the sheer cost of running this place to the brits is beyond me, if the average brit knew how much it cost to run this little slice of heaven they would be up in arms!
It would be quite an achievement to simultaneously sell it to the rest of the country while telling the Brits how worthless it was
Quote from: haranguerer on March 03, 2017, 11:04:50 AM
Quote from: stew on March 03, 2017, 10:50:08 AM
Quote from: The Trap on March 03, 2017, 10:26:21 AM
What would be wrong with all of them getting together and having a government with:
Joint First Minister - Nationalist/Unionist
Joint Finance Minister - from two different parties that can somewhat agree
Joint Health Minister - as above
Joint Education Minister - as above
Joint Brexit Minster - going to need that!
etc etc
Would like all the leaders especially Long to be part of the government. In fact she would be a brilliant First Minister on her own! Only way for it to work is to make them work together, not carve up depts. between SF and DUP and let them run it THEIR way! How about running depts. OUR way.
This place could be so prosperous if people were smart about it. We could be help up as an example to the rest of the world and could get money from UK, Europe, US, Far East........use the "everybody loves the Irish" and the "sure my ancestors came from Ireland" and whatever else it takes to get investment.
But what do we do?
Worry about flags and walking down roads and talking about a United Ireland (prob more people would vote for that in England than Ireland!!!!)
Why the shinners and SDLP dont hammer away at the sheer cost of running this place to the brits is beyond me, if the average brit knew how much it cost to run this little slice of heaven they would be up in arms!
It would be quite an achievement to simultaneously sell it to the rest of the country while telling the Brits how worthless it was
The only hope is that the British take some interest in it costing less when they realise the cost, especially if they stop screwing the economy.
Turnout Foyle 65% turnout - up from 56% in '16.
East Derry turnout - 62.69%. Also up from 50.80%
West Tyrone 44,907; turnout 69.89%
East Antrim 37,836; turnout 60.12%
North Antrim 48,518; turnout 63.22%
Mid Ulster 50,228; turnout 72.38% from 58% last time
Belfast South 43,465; turnout 63.96%
DUP could be under pressure in S Belfast - Pengelly in particular
Fermanagh South Tyrone turnout 72.61 %.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 03, 2017, 11:04:50 AM
Quote from: stew on March 03, 2017, 10:50:08 AM
Quote from: The Trap on March 03, 2017, 10:26:21 AM
What would be wrong with all of them getting together and having a government with:
Joint First Minister - Nationalist/Unionist
Joint Finance Minister - from two different parties that can somewhat agree
Joint Health Minister - as above
Joint Education Minister - as above
Joint Brexit Minster - going to need that!
etc etc
Would like all the leaders especially Long to be part of the government. In fact she would be a brilliant First Minister on her own! Only way for it to work is to make them work together, not carve up depts. between SF and DUP and let them run it THEIR way! How about running depts. OUR way.
This place could be so prosperous if people were smart about it. We could be help up as an example to the rest of the world and could get money from UK, Europe, US, Far East........use the "everybody loves the Irish" and the "sure my ancestors came from Ireland" and whatever else it takes to get investment.
But what do we do?
Worry about flags and walking down roads and talking about a United Ireland (prob more people would vote for that in England than Ireland!!!!)
Why the shinners and SDLP dont hammer away at the sheer cost of running this place to the brits is beyond me, if the average brit knew how much it cost to run this little slice of heaven they would be up in arms!
It would be quite an achievement to simultaneously sell it to the rest of the country while telling the Brits how worthless it was
Thats what politicians do!
Talk out of both sides of their mouths ffs!
Votes polled in Upper Bann 52,174; turnout 62.54%
Votes polled in Newry and Armagh 55,625; turnout 69.41%
32 seats for the DUP according to Jim Wells.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 03, 2017, 12:34:50 PM
32 seats for the DUP according to Jim Wells.
Wouldn't surprise me. The only thing that will significantly impact the DUP vote is demographic change. Give it a decade or two.
a lot of it still seems to be down to transfers for the 5th seat in some areas - but nelson struggling
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 03, 2017, 12:34:50 PM
32 seats for the DUP according to Jim Wells.
We are doomed if thats the case, holding all the aces, they wil cite a drop in seats at the assembly to something other than the recent scandals, of which their voting public really (after this show) dont give a f**k about!
Mental, bit like the Scotts crying for freedom and when handed to them on a plate the vote no!
The full list
Belfast South: 64%, +10%
Belfast North: 62%, +10%
Mid-Ulster: 72%, +13%
Strangford: 61%, +11%
North Down: 59%, +10%
Foyle: 65%, +9%
East Londonderry: 63%, +12%
North Antrim: 63%, +10%
East Antrim: 60%, +9%
South Antrim: 62%, +11%
Upper Bann: 62% + %
Newry & Armagh: 69% + 10%
Fermanagh and South Tyrone: 73%, +9%
West Tyrone: 73%, +13%
Lagan Valley 62%, + 9%
South Down 66% +12%
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 03, 2017, 12:34:50 PM
32 seats for the DUP according to Jim Wells.
Well that's that then
DUP voters don't care what how their representative behave in office
Lining there own pockets, refusing to work profeceintly with the rest of the government Rep
Calling 45 % of the electorate crocodiles and refusing to acknowledge their national identity
Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face
Lost the battle but not the war as another poster just mentioned at least another 15 year wait for the demographic to kick in or a little Help from Scotland or both
What a bunch of bigoted insightful cavemen
The unionist community have spoken and it's the same old tripe
Looks like Nelson McCausland may lose his seat in N Belfast ;D
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 03, 2017, 01:12:06 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 03, 2017, 12:34:50 PM
32 seats for the DUP according to Jim Wells.
Well that's that then
DUP voters don't care what how their representative behave in office
Lining there own pockets, refusing to work profeceintly with the rest of the government Rep
Calling 45 % of the electorate crocodiles and refusing to acknowledge their national identity
Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face
Lost the battle but not the war as another poster just mentioned at least another 15 year wait for the demographic to kick in or a little Help from Scotland or both
What a bunch of bigoted insightful cavemen
The unionist community have spoken and it's the same old tripe
Yeah it really is f*cking hideous if this is the case .... Bunch of cnuts would rather live in a sewer than have a Catholic first minister .. essentially thats what its about ... F*ck Sake :-\
Mind you Mike Nesbit didnt help ... If the UUP had anyone decent at all to lead them they could have taken swaves off the DUP .. instead it looks like he actually drove his existing support towards them .. poor deluded idiot.
Quote from: Minder on March 03, 2017, 01:14:27 PM
Looks like Nelson McCausland may lose his seat in N Belfast ;D
This would be truly fantastic .. I'd love to see his horrible little bitter rat face if this happens
Looks like all 4 SF candidates above PBP in West Belfast, so Gerry tell us, how did that brexit thing go for you
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 03, 2017, 01:31:09 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 03, 2017, 01:14:27 PM
Looks like Nelson McCausland may lose his seat in N Belfast ;D
This would be truly fantastic .. I'd love to see his horrible little bitter rat face if this happens
I'm sure he'll be content with the millions he has made from the taxpayers
Radio Ulster
There now projecting SF could now gain more seats even with the reduction
As high up as 28 instead of 23
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 03, 2017, 01:28:46 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 03, 2017, 01:12:06 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 03, 2017, 12:34:50 PM
32 seats for the DUP according to Jim Wells.
Well that's that then
DUP voters don't care what how their representative behave in office
Lining there own pockets, refusing to work profeceintly with the rest of the government Rep
Calling 45 % of the electorate crocodiles and refusing to acknowledge their national identity
Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face
Lost the battle but not the war as another poster just mentioned at least another 15 year wait for the demographic to kick in or a little Help from Scotland or both
What a bunch of bigoted insightful cavemen
The unionist community have spoken and it's the same old tripe
Yeah it really is f*cking hideous if this is the case .... Bunch of cnuts would rather live in a sewer than have a Catholic first minister .. essentially thats what its about ... F*ck Sake :-\
Mind you Mike Nesbit didnt help ... If the UUP had anyone decent at all to lead them they could have taken swaves off the DUP .. instead it looks like he actually drove his existing support towards them .. poor deluded idiot.
Mike tried to step away from the sectarian head count a little, can't fault him for that. He should have anticpated better that his voters wouldn't like that, but on balance, I think he deserves credit for trying it more than criticism for it not working
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2017, 01:43:51 PM
Looks like all 4 SF candidates above PBP in West Belfast, so Gerry tell us, how did that brexit thing go for you
Yeah brilliant ... their Brexit stance fecked them completely ...
What about poor aul Eamon .. will he be out too ... Imagine trying for 170 years to be elected and then once you get in and get your seat comfy, the feckers call another election ;D ... Not a bad aul fella but as mad as a hatter :o
Quote from: haranguerer on March 03, 2017, 02:00:45 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 03, 2017, 01:28:46 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 03, 2017, 01:12:06 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 03, 2017, 12:34:50 PM
32 seats for the DUP according to Jim Wells.
Well that's that then
DUP voters don't care what how their representative behave in office
Lining there own pockets, refusing to work profeceintly with the rest of the government Rep
Calling 45 % of the electorate crocodiles and refusing to acknowledge their national identity
Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face
Lost the battle but not the war as another poster just mentioned at least another 15 year wait for the demographic to kick in or a little Help from Scotland or both
What a bunch of bigoted insightful cavemen
The unionist community have spoken and it's the same old tripe
Yeah it really is f*cking hideous if this is the case .... Bunch of cnuts would rather live in a sewer than have a Catholic first minister .. essentially thats what its about ... F*ck Sake :-\
Mind you Mike Nesbit didnt help ... If the UUP had anyone decent at all to lead them they could have taken swaves off the DUP .. instead it looks like he actually drove his existing support towards them .. poor deluded idiot.
Mike tried to step away from the sectarian head count a little, can't fault him for that. He should have anticpated better that his voters wouldn't like that, but on balance, I think he deserves credit for trying it more than criticism for it not working
No doubt he deserves a lot of credit but Jaysus where's he been living the past 60 years ... I watched Mark Carruthers squeeze it out of him and I was cringing "Dont say it Mike, Dont feckin say it" :o ...... and then he went and said it .. "I'd give my second preference to the SDLP" ... End of story for the UUP :-\
Quote from: tintin25 on March 03, 2017, 01:45:44 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 03, 2017, 01:31:09 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 03, 2017, 01:14:27 PM
Looks like Nelson McCausland may lose his seat in N Belfast ;D
This would be truly fantastic .. I'd love to see his horrible little bitter rat face if this happens
I'm sure he'll be content with the millions he has made from the taxpayers
It will undoubtedly help but his bitterness trumps all as is frequently demonstrated and yet again on the Nolan show the other night ... He'll be feckin apoplectic if he's out ... Oh please God 8)
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 03, 2017, 02:07:47 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 03, 2017, 02:00:45 PM
Mike tried to step away from the sectarian head count a little, can't fault him for that. He should have anticpated better that his voters wouldn't like that, but on balance, I think he deserves credit for trying it more than criticism for it not working
No doubt he deserves a lot of credit but Jaysus where's he been living the past 60 years ... I watched Mark Carruthers squeeze it out of him and I was cringing "Dont say it Mike, Dont feckin say it" :o ...... and then he went and said it .. "I'd give my second preference to the SDLP" ... End of story for the UUP :-\
Can't disagree with that
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 03, 2017, 02:07:47 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 03, 2017, 02:00:45 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 03, 2017, 01:28:46 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 03, 2017, 01:12:06 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 03, 2017, 12:34:50 PM
32 seats for the DUP according to Jim Wells.
Well that's that then
DUP voters don't care what how their representative behave in office
Lining there own pockets, refusing to work profeceintly with the rest of the government Rep
Calling 45 % of the electorate crocodiles and refusing to acknowledge their national identity
Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face
Lost the battle but not the war as another poster just mentioned at least another 15 year wait for the demographic to kick in or a little Help from Scotland or both
What a bunch of bigoted insightful cavemen
The unionist community have spoken and it's the same old tripe
Yeah it really is f*cking hideous if this is the case .... Bunch of cnuts would rather live in a sewer than have a Catholic first minister .. essentially thats what its about ... F*ck Sake :-\
Mind you Mike Nesbit didnt help ... If the UUP had anyone decent at all to lead them they could have taken swaves off the DUP .. instead it looks like he actually drove his existing support towards them .. poor deluded idiot.
Mike tried to step away from the sectarian head count a little, can't fault him for that. He should have anticpated better that his voters wouldn't like that, but on balance, I think he deserves credit for trying it more than criticism for it not working
No doubt he deserves a lot of credit but Jaysus where's he been living the past 60 years ... I watched Mark Carruthers squeeze it out of him and I was cringing "Dont say it Mike, Dont feckin say it" :o ...... and then he went and said it .. "I'd give my second preference to the SDLP" ... End of story for the UUP :-\
Danny kennedy in trouble maybe he would be grateful of a few nationalist transfer but seeing as he wants to out fleg DUP I hope he is toast the pr1ck
SSE announce gas prices up by 7% in the O6. Good day to bury bad news !
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2017, 02:35:25 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 03, 2017, 02:07:47 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 03, 2017, 02:00:45 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 03, 2017, 01:28:46 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 03, 2017, 01:12:06 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 03, 2017, 12:34:50 PM
32 seats for the DUP according to Jim Wells.
Well that's that then
DUP voters don't care what how their representative behave in office
Lining there own pockets, refusing to work profeceintly with the rest of the government Rep
Calling 45 % of the electorate crocodiles and refusing to acknowledge their national identity
Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face
Lost the battle but not the war as another poster just mentioned at least another 15 year wait for the demographic to kick in or a little Help from Scotland or both
What a bunch of bigoted insightful cavemen
The unionist community have spoken and it's the same old tripe
Yeah it really is f*cking hideous if this is the case .... Bunch of cnuts would rather live in a sewer than have a Catholic first minister .. essentially thats what its about ... F*ck Sake :-\
Mind you Mike Nesbit didnt help ... If the UUP had anyone decent at all to lead them they could have taken swaves off the DUP .. instead it looks like he actually drove his existing support towards them .. poor deluded idiot.
Mike tried to step away from the sectarian head count a little, can't fault him for that. He should have anticpated better that his voters wouldn't like that, but on balance, I think he deserves credit for trying it more than criticism for it not working
No doubt he deserves a lot of credit but Jaysus where's he been living the past 60 years ... I watched Mark Carruthers squeeze it out of him and I was cringing "Dont say it Mike, Dont feckin say it" :o ...... and then he went and said it .. "I'd give my second preference to the SDLP" ... End of story for the UUP :-\
Danny kennedy in trouble maybe he would be grateful of a few nationalist transfer but seeing as he wants to out fleg DUP I hope he is toast the pr1ck
Yep, as much as I agree with your sentiments, if its a choice between him and a DUPer, I would begrudgingly give him the seat ,.. just to keep the uberbiggots numbers down...
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 03, 2017, 02:41:59 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2017, 02:35:25 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 03, 2017, 02:07:47 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 03, 2017, 02:00:45 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 03, 2017, 01:28:46 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 03, 2017, 01:12:06 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 03, 2017, 12:34:50 PM
32 seats for the DUP according to Jim Wells.
Well that's that then
DUP voters don't care what how their representative behave in office
Lining there own pockets, refusing to work profeceintly with the rest of the government Rep
Calling 45 % of the electorate crocodiles and refusing to acknowledge their national identity
Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face
Lost the battle but not the war as another poster just mentioned at least another 15 year wait for the demographic to kick in or a little Help from Scotland or both
What a bunch of bigoted insightful cavemen
The unionist community have spoken and it's the same old tripe
Yeah it really is f*cking hideous if this is the case .... Bunch of cnuts would rather live in a sewer than have a Catholic first minister .. essentially thats what its about ... F*ck Sake :-\
Mind you Mike Nesbit didnt help ... If the UUP had anyone decent at all to lead them they could have taken swaves off the DUP .. instead it looks like he actually drove his existing support towards them .. poor deluded idiot.
Mike tried to step away from the sectarian head count a little, can't fault him for that. He should have anticpated better that his voters wouldn't like that, but on balance, I think he deserves credit for trying it more than criticism for it not working
No doubt he deserves a lot of credit but Jaysus where's he been living the past 60 years ... I watched Mark Carruthers squeeze it out of him and I was cringing "Dont say it Mike, Dont feckin say it" :o ...... and then he went and said it .. "I'd give my second preference to the SDLP" ... End of story for the UUP :-\
Danny kennedy in trouble maybe he would be grateful of a few nationalist transfer but seeing as he wants to out fleg DUP I hope he is toast the pr1ck
Yep, as much as I agree with your sentiments, if its a choice between him and a DUPer, I would begrudgingly give him the seat ,.. just to keep the uberbiggots numbers down...
DUP already elected the last seat will likely be between Kennedy and the SDLP
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2017, 02:35:25 PM
Danny Kennedy in trouble maybe he would be grateful of a few nationalist transfer but seeing as he wants to out fleg DUP I hope he is toast the pr1ck
he is 1200 short behind Conor Murphy. The DUP guy has 600 of a surplus and the Alliance candidate has 1400. He'll get some Alliance transfers and the rest will elect McNulty, so McNulty's surplus might make or break Danny. If Danny gets, then Conor Murphy does not.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2017, 02:46:36 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2017, 02:35:25 PM
Danny Kennedy in trouble maybe he would be grateful of a few nationalist transfer but seeing as he wants to out fleg DUP I hope he is toast the pr1ck
he is 1200 short behind Conor Murphy. The DUP guy has 600 of a surplus and the Alliance candidate has 1400. He'll get some Alliance transfers and the rest will elect McNulty, so McNulty's surplus might make or break Danny. If Danny gets, then Conor Murphy does not.
Conor Murphy in bother ??? Why is that ?? If he loses would that be a Portillo moment ??
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2017, 01:43:51 PM
Looks like all 4 SF candidates above PBP in West Belfast, so Gerry tell us, how did that brexit thing go for you
He couldn't be far of the seat though, you'd have to think the transfers from Michael Collins to him will put him near the quota
Quote from: MoChara on March 03, 2017, 02:52:40 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2017, 01:43:51 PM
Looks like all 4 SF candidates above PBP in West Belfast, so Gerry tell us, how did that brexit thing go for you
He couldn't be far of the seat though, you'd have to think the transfers from Michael Collins to him will put him near the quota
Yeah he is expected to get in, Attwood out
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2017, 02:43:30 PM
DUP already elected the last seat will likely be between Kennedy and the SDLP
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2017, 02:46:36 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2017, 02:35:25 PM
Danny Kennedy in trouble maybe he would be grateful of a few nationalist transfer but seeing as he wants to out fleg DUP I hope he is toast the pr1ck
he is 1200 short behind Conor Murphy. The DUP guy has 600 of a surplus and the Alliance candidate has 1400. He'll get some Alliance transfers and the rest will elect McNulty, so McNulty's surplus might make or break Danny. If Danny gets, then Conor Murphy does not.
Quote from: ashman on March 03, 2017, 02:49:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2017, 02:46:36 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 03, 2017, 02:35:25 PM
Danny Kennedy in trouble maybe he would be grateful of a few nationalist transfer but seeing as he wants to out fleg DUP I hope he is toast the pr1ck
he is 1200 short behind Conor Murphy. The DUP guy has 600 of a surplus and the Alliance candidate has 1400. He'll get some Alliance transfers and the rest will elect McNulty, so McNulty's surplus might make or break Danny. If Danny gets, then Conor Murphy does not.
Conor Murphy in bother ??? Why is that ?? If he loses would that be a Portillo moment ??
Im totally lost here lads .. is it between Kennedy and SDLP .. or .. Kennedy and SF
Either way I hope he's out .. now that I know it aint the DUP ..
Eamonn McCann is toast.
Gerry Carroll is get last seat, without making the quota.
PBP leap forward stumbles.
There are interesting things in relation to later transfers in Lagan Valley the SDLP transfers could push the UU person ahead of the DUP.
massive news if east derry get the two SF in and ind
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 03, 2017, 02:53:56 PM
Im totally lost here lads .. is it between Kennedy and SDLP .. or .. Kennedy and SF
Either way I hope he's out .. now that I know it aint the DUP ..
It is between Murphy and Kennedy. The preferences from the SDLP surplus when McNulty is elected will determine things.
Alex Atwood gone
Will you remember what you were doing if and when Kennedy falls?
Quote from: T Fearon on March 03, 2017, 03:11:21 PM
Will you remember what you were doing if and when Kennedy falls?
Probably not. But if McCausland isn't elected I will discard my Lenten resolutions for one day.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2017, 03:15:09 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on March 03, 2017, 03:11:21 PM
Will you remember what you were doing if and when Kennedy falls?
Probably not. But if McCausland isn't elected I will discard my Lenten resolutions for one day.
lol .. I'll drink to that :)
Carla Lockart chewed them all up in Upper Bann.
Gerry Carroll doesn't get that brexit or left exit is the same thing to those who want to remain.
Where is this Stor-mount that Martina Anderson talks about?
Whatever about SDLP - UU transfers, some people have an interesting strategy, Conservative 1 and PBP 2 is a bit different for instance.
Anyhow prediction from Nicholas Whyte.
Final seats range: DUP 28-32, SF 26-30, UUP 8-11, SDLP 6-11, Alliance 8-9, Green 2, PBP 1, TUV 1, Sugden 1. Max 44/90 Unionist MLAs.
This means that the Assembly can at least vote for something to be done about Brexit, May might not listen but she certainly won't if they could not get their act together.
There will never a unionist majority again, unless turnout declines.
Just a point, max per that is 45. Sugden is unionist.
Also to note, pbp is pro brexit
Quote from: haranguerer on March 03, 2017, 03:46:05 PM
Just a point, max per that is 45. Sugden is unionist.
Also to note, pbp is pro brexit
Might be brought up unionist but doesn't side with many of their policies.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2017, 03:38:35 PM
Whatever about SDLP - UU transfers, some people have an interesting strategy, Conservative 1 and PBP 2 is a bit different for instance.
Anyhow prediction from Nicholas Whyte.
Final seats range: DUP 28-32, SF 26-30, UUP 8-11, SDLP 6-11, Alliance 8-9, Green 2, PBP 1, TUV 1, Sugden 1. Max 44/90 Unionist MLAs.
This means that the Assembly can at least vote for something to be done about Brexit, May might not listen but she certainly won't if they could not get their act together.
There will never a unionist majority again, unless turnout declines.
Very interesting
Foster tops the poll in FST which is very disheartening
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 03, 2017, 03:29:37 PM
Carla Lockart chewed them all up in Upper Bann.
Well it isn't a beauty contest, the pulchritudinous Dobson is not likely to make it.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 03, 2017, 03:46:05 PM
Just a point, max per that is 45. Sugden is unionist.
Also to note, pbp is pro brexit
This was Whyte's calculation. Most likely Sugden does not in then another unionist would, so not affecting the total.
PBP abstained rather than actually vote against special status and they may want to reflect on their policies in the light of recent events.
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2017, 03:58:34 PM
Foster tops the poll in FST which is very disheartening
Yes, but she didn't make the quota, unlike Long and O'Neill.
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2017, 03:58:34 PM
Foster tops the poll in FST which is very disheartening
"There are none as blind as those who cannot see" ::) ..... Na actually thats sh1te, they can see rightly .. just bitter aul feckers ...
Quote from: Longshanks on March 03, 2017, 03:49:44 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 03, 2017, 03:46:05 PM
Just a point, max per that is 45. Sugden is unionist.
Also to note, pbp is pro brexit
Might be brought up unionist but doesn't side with many of their policies.
She is designated unionist. Also her behaviour (or lack of it) round the RHI was a joke - beholden to the DUP.
0.2% difference between DUP and SF.
Very close according to the guardian
SF 27.9% first prefs
DUP 28.1%
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2017/mar/03/northern-ireland-assembly-election-latest-results
Party %
DUP 28.1 (-1.1)
SF 27.9 (+3.9)
UUP 12.9 (+0.3)
SDLP 11.9 (-0.1)
APNI 9.1 (+2.1)
OTH 10.2 (-2.4)
It looks like it was Arlene's election, her general behaviour and attitude and her scaremongering has allowed DUP to hold steady and for SF to increase its votes. Another polarising election producing a tribal vote.
UUP could become irrelevant in unionism and the UUP-SDLP opposition have had a bad day and may fall behind or level with the Alliance.
RHI didn't harm the DUP as it would have in any other civil society.
Big winners are nationalism and republicanism in particular. Fosters arrogance and condescension coming home to roost even though it didn't hit her own personal vote. Both unionist leaders will be gone by Monday and it is a big momentum swing in Northern politics.
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2017, 03:58:34 PM
Foster tops the poll in FST which is very disheartening
But the overall share of the vote has fallen by 2.8%.
Quote from: yellowcard on March 03, 2017, 04:22:40 PM
Both unionist leaders will be gone by Monday and it is a big momentum swing in Northern politics.
UUP will struggle to find a leader if Nesbitt is removed, he may hang on until the AGM later in the year.
I wonder if McCausland isnt elected will we see his lovely wee weasly chops back as a SPAD or some such sh1te ...
Quote from: yellowcard on March 03, 2017, 04:22:40 PM
Big winners are nationalism and republicanism in particular. Fosters arrogance and condescension coming home to roost even though it didn't hit her own personal vote. Both unionist leaders will be gone by Monday and it is a big momentum swing in Northern politics.
The combined SF/SDLP vote in the 2011 Assembly election was 41.1%, this time it is 39.8%
Quote from: dec on March 03, 2017, 04:52:22 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on March 03, 2017, 04:22:40 PM
Big winners are nationalism and republicanism in particular. Fosters arrogance and condescension coming home to roost even though it didn't hit her own personal vote. Both unionist leaders will be gone by Monday and it is a big momentum swing in Northern politics.
The combined SF/SDLP vote in the 2011 Assembly election was 41.1%, this time it is 39.8%
Maybe so but I'm basing it on the swing from the last election, republican/nationalist voters had become apathetic and it's likely that Brexit and RHI had a big impact on increasing the voter turnout. PBP would have ate into some of the SF vote since 2011.
Be interesting to see how it goes the next time as there will likely be no RHI type scandal to mobilise nationalist voters from their slumber
Quote from: Minder on March 03, 2017, 05:04:09 PM
Be interesting to see how it goes the next time as there will likely be no RHI type scandal to mobilise nationalist voters from their slumber
Brexit is the bigger issue and it will run and run.
Quote from: yellowcard on March 03, 2017, 05:00:11 PM
Quote from: dec on March 03, 2017, 04:52:22 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on March 03, 2017, 04:22:40 PM
Big winners are nationalism and republicanism in particular. Fosters arrogance and condescension coming home to roost even though it didn't hit her own personal vote. Both unionist leaders will be gone by Monday and it is a big momentum swing in Northern politics.
The combined SF/SDLP vote in the 2011 Assembly election was 41.1%, this time it is 39.8%
Maybe so but I'm basing it on the swing from the last election, republican/nationalist voters had become apathetic and it's likely that Brexit and RHI had a big impact on increasing the voter turnout. PBP would have ate into some of the SF vote since 2011.
But the combined nationalist vote is still just around what they got in the earliest Assembly elections, around 40%.
Danny Kennedy gone .
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2017, 05:28:11 PM
Danny Kennedy gone .
Possible to have no UUP west of the Bann.
Quote from: dec on March 03, 2017, 04:52:22 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on March 03, 2017, 04:22:40 PM
Big winners are nationalism and republicanism in particular. Fosters arrogance and condescension coming home to roost even though it didn't hit her own personal vote. Both unionist leaders will be gone by Monday and it is a big momentum swing in Northern politics.
The combined SF/SDLP vote in the 2011 Assembly election was 41.1%, this time it is 39.8%
They got a dose of the Trots in the meantime.
Things are getting interesting in Upper Bann after elimination of Alliance and now UUP are bottom of the list.
SF John O'Dowd 8,560.00
DUP Jonathan Buckley 8,314.00
SDLP Dolores Kelly 6,509.00
SF Nuala Toman 6,294.00
UUP Doug Beattie 6,174.00
UUP Jo-Anne Dobson 5,910.00
WP Colin Craig Eliminated stage 1
APNI Tara Doyle Eliminated stage 2
TUV Roy Ferguson Eliminated stage 1
GP Simon Lee Eliminated stage 1
DUP Carla Lockhart Elected stage 1
CON Ian Nickels Eliminated stage 1
It will be interesting to see how much SDLP gains from elimination of Dobson to keep ahead of Toman.
If the UUP stay anti Brexit they can destroy the DUP when Brexit fails.
Quote from: seafoid on March 03, 2017, 06:19:23 PM
If the UUP stay anti Brexit they can destroy the DUP when Brexit fails.
But they voted for Brexit, including in the amendment that Brexit respect the GFA. That alone caused Alliance to take some of their votes.
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 03, 2017, 06:16:50 PM
Things are getting interesting in Upper Bann after elimination of Alliance and now UUP are bottom of the list.
It will be interesting to see how much SDLP gains from elimination of Dobson to keep ahead of Toman.
Surely she will get more than Toman, however large or small that would be and so this is a rare SDLP gain?
Arlene not speaking to the BBC... could we see a Trump style atrategy from the DUP where they vilify the media at every turn??
Just look who is about to be eliminated in North Belfast:
PUP Julie-Anne Corr-Johnston Eliminated stage 3 -
PBP Fiona Ferguson Eliminated stage 2 -
IND Adam Millar Eliminated stage 1 -
GP Malachai O'Hara Eliminated stage 1 -
WP Gemma Weir Eliminated stage 1 -
SF Gerry Kelly - 6,582.00
SF Carál Ní Chuilín - 6,155.00
SDLP Nichola Mallon - 6,125.00
DUP Paula Bradley - 5,236.00
DUP William Humphrey 4,937.00
APNI Nuala McAllister - 4,515.00
DUP Nelson McCausland 4,372.00
UUP Robert Foster Eliminated stage 4 3,141.00
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 03, 2017, 07:47:08 PM
Just look who is about to be eliminated in North Belfast:
PUP Julie-Anne Corr-Johnston Eliminated stage 3 -
PBP Fiona Ferguson Eliminated stage 2 -
IND Adam Millar Eliminated stage 1 -
GP Malachai O'Hara Eliminated stage 1 -
WP Gemma Weir Eliminated stage 1 -
SF Gerry Kelly - 6,582.00
SF Carál Ní Chuilín - 6,155.00
SDLP Nichola Mallon - 6,125.00
DUP Paula Bradley - 5,236.00
DUP William Humphrey 4,937.00
APNI Nuala McAllister - 4,515.00
DUP Nelson McCausland 4,372.00
UUP Robert Foster Eliminated stage 4 3,141.00
(https://img.clipartfox.com/21e9d645e04a43c6145c87ecde6b7d44_happy-face-free-clip-art-free-clipart-smiley-face_480-480.jpeg)
Interesting in the South Antrim count 6
Pam Cameron (DUP) 5357.12
Trevor Clarke (DUP) 5358.4
one is for the chop, but which one?
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2017, 07:00:14 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 03, 2017, 06:16:50 PM
Things are getting interesting in Upper Bann after elimination of Alliance and now UUP are bottom of the list.
It will be interesting to see how much SDLP gains from elimination of Dobson to keep ahead of Toman.
Surely she will get more than Toman, however large or small that would be and so this is a rare SDLP gain?
SF activists in the count centre conceded a few hours ago that Kelly would leapfrog Toman to take the seat.
Looks like Mike TV is about to resign.
Quote from: seafoid on March 03, 2017, 06:19:23 PM
If the UUP stay anti Brexit they can destroy the DUP when Brexit fails.
Brexit isn't what people vote on here. Uup can't agree among themselves.
Mike tv sadly shot himself in the foot talking about siding with themmuns.
Best news so far is mccausland might be out. Bigoted <inser expletive here>
Quote from: Donagh on March 03, 2017, 08:05:54 PM
Looks like Mike TV is about to resign.
Giving out about sectarian politica while he's at it.
He is out.
225k people voted for dup. Sometimes it is hard to have faith in humanity :(
Looks like Lord Morrow is in serious trouble in FST.
McCausland gone
Quote from: FermGael on March 03, 2017, 08:14:23 PM
Looks like Lord Morrow is in serious trouble in FST.
Lynch looks like next to be eliminated.
At least nesbitt is holding himself to account which is something you certainly wouldn't see from foster.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 03, 2017, 08:25:57 PM
At least nesbitt is holding himself to account which is something you certainly wouldn't see from foster.
UUP have had a terrible election though, DUP vote has taken only a minimal hit so no way she was resigning
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 03, 2017, 08:23:45 PM
Quote from: FermGael on March 03, 2017, 08:14:23 PM
Looks like Lord Morrow is in serious trouble in FST.
Lynch looks like next to be eliminated.
You were right. Morrow gone, good riddance.
Danny Kennedy gone.
Will the DUP make 30 ?
I think we will see now for the first time a non unionist overall majority
Loss of Morrow is a real blow for foster and even Dodds admits it.
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 17, 2017, 01:03:46 PM
SF running 4 candidates in FST last time out cost them a seat, if they run 3 this time out they should get them all returned.
There are 2 seats in Upper Bann for SF if they manage their vote properly.
I reckon Newry & Armagh will be 3SF, 1DUP & 1SDLP with Danny Kennedy to lose out.
Strangford will be interesting to see if Jonathan Bell damages the DUP vote.
Nearly called it right, I can't believe Dolores Kelly got returned. Did I hear right that some areas that were to vote Toman voted for O'Dowd?
UUP being predicted to get 9 seats!
Quote from: FermGael on March 03, 2017, 08:45:18 PM
Will the DUP make 30 ?
I think we will see now for the first time a non unionist overall majority
Probably 29 seats, I don't see how it's going to work between them and SF regardless of being over/under 30
In South Down the Alliance did much better than before, but when the unionist votes were distributed near the end they went 60% to Alliance and 40% to SDLP, so the SDLP held their second seat.
Looking like DUP 29 & SF 28 seats, no petition of concern power for DUP
Will the DUP get rid of Foster after the disappointing election?
Is it so that under the rules, Sinn Fein as largest nationalist party, could have had a stint with their leader as first minister but refused the privilege?
That and mccausland out are steps in the right direction.
How 225k people vote for these pricks is hugely disheartening though >:(
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 03, 2017, 10:32:45 PM
That and mccausland out are steps in the right direction.
How 225k people vote for these pricks is hugely disheartening though >:(
Who do people expect their voters to vote for though ? If not the DUP
Quote from: Main Street on March 03, 2017, 10:32:25 PM
Is it so that under the rules, Sinn Fein as largest nationalist party, could have had a stint with their leader as first minister but refused the privilege?
You have to be the largest party (seats) to get "privilege" of First Minister
So apparently if dup get 2 in south belfast they still can win petition of concern. Ifgreens win one then they don't. According to twitter.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 03, 2017, 10:43:03 PM
So apparently if dup get 2 in south belfast they still can win petition of concern. Ifgreens win one then they don't. According to twitter.
Looks like Pat Catney may get in at DUPs expense in Lagan Valley which would mean no POC for DUP
Weir in by a whisker against SDLP in Strangford
DUP 5,392.38 SDLP 5,167.09
Quote from: Minder on March 03, 2017, 10:38:06 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 03, 2017, 10:32:25 PM
Is it so that under the rules, Sinn Fein as largest nationalist party, could have had a stint with their leader as first minister but refused the privilege?
You have to be the largest party (seats) to get "privilege" of First Minister
Thanks for clearing that up.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 03, 2017, 10:43:03 PM
So apparently if dup get 2 in south belfast they still can win petition of concern. Ifgreens win one then they don't. According to twitter.
They may also miss out in Lagan valley so could yet finish up on 28. Come on Bailey and Catney.
Quote from: Main Street on March 03, 2017, 10:52:10 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 03, 2017, 10:38:06 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 03, 2017, 10:32:25 PM
Is it so that under the rules, Sinn Fein as largest nationalist party, could have had a stint with their leader as first minister but refused the privilege?
You have to be the largest party (seats) to get "privilege" of First Minister
Thanks for clearing that up.
If it's level on seats, as it could be, then it goes to who has the most first preference votes for FM & that would be the DUP
Quote from: Minder on March 03, 2017, 10:45:18 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 03, 2017, 10:43:03 PM
So apparently if dup get 2 in south belfast they still can win petition of concern. Ifgreens win one then they don't. According to twitter.
Looks like Pat Catney may get in at DUPs expense in Lagan Valley which would mean no POC for DUP
I would have thought that the DUP would still get more UU transfers than Catney and squeeze in.
Quote from: Minder on March 03, 2017, 10:57:45 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 03, 2017, 10:52:10 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 03, 2017, 10:38:06 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 03, 2017, 10:32:25 PM
Is it so that under the rules, Sinn Fein as largest nationalist party, could have had a stint with their leader as first minister but refused the privilege?
You have to be the largest party (seats) to get "privilege" of First Minister
Thanks for clearing that up.
If it's level on seats, as it could be, then it goes to who has the most first preference votes for FM & that would be the DUP
In practice though, the deputy can veto the first minister. I'd say the prognosis is very cloudy for the future of this new assembly.
Aw come on Pat!!
Quote from: Main Street on March 03, 2017, 11:02:44 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 03, 2017, 10:57:45 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 03, 2017, 10:52:10 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 03, 2017, 10:38:06 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 03, 2017, 10:32:25 PM
Is it so that under the rules, Sinn Fein as largest nationalist party, could have had a stint with their leader as first minister but refused the privilege?
You have to be the largest party (seats) to get "privilege" of First Minister
Thanks for clearing that up.
If it's level on seats, as it could be, then it goes to who has the most first preference votes for FM & that would be the DUP
In practice though, the deputy can veto the first minister. I'd say the prognosis is very cloudy for the future of this new assembly.
Yeah I can't see how anything resembling a functioning administration can happen, not that it was great before now
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2017, 10:58:16 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 03, 2017, 10:45:18 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 03, 2017, 10:43:03 PM
So apparently if dup get 2 in south belfast they still can win petition of concern. Ifgreens win one then they don't. According to twitter.
Looks like Pat Catney may get in at DUPs expense in Lagan Valley which would mean no POC for DUP
I would have thought that the DUP would still get more UU transfers than Catney and squeeze in.
sDLP got more from Palmer than DUP. Next set of UU overages will also contain a lot of her 2nd preferences.
I presume even if election is deemed a poor one DUP will stick with Arlene and nominate her role of First Minister.
That would see Shinners hamstrung on their pledge not to support Arlene, meaning no assembly to use their new found seats and a return to direct rule.
Nothing from their past suggests they will actually do something constructive.
/Jim.
Looks like Catney is in
Right now we need Bailey picking up sufficient overage from Alliance and SDLP to put Pengelly or Stanford out.
That's the petition of concern gone isn't it?
Quote from: Minder on March 03, 2017, 11:21:14 PM
Looks like Catney is in
Definite transfer pattern from the UU, Nesbitt may have achieved something after all.
The SDLP now has two seats, Upper Bann, Lagan Valley that perhaps they wouldn't have expected and which puts a better look on their day.
Quote from: Minder on March 03, 2017, 11:30:58 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on March 03, 2017, 11:30:05 PM
That's the petition of concern gone isn't it?
It is
POC gone and Nelson gone. Those 2 things alone make it all worth while. 😁
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2017, 11:34:01 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 03, 2017, 11:21:14 PM
Looks like Catney is in
Definite transfer pattern from the UU, Nesbitt may have achieved something after all.
The SDLP now has two seats, Upper Bann, Lagan Valley that perhaps they wouldn't have expected and which puts a better look on their day.
Dallat in East Derry may be a 3rd. OHoisin could be a casualty, dropping SF back to 27.
I know it's been said before but Caral Ni Chuilin comes across terribly.
Quote from: LeoMc on March 03, 2017, 11:05:21 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 03, 2017, 10:58:16 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 03, 2017, 10:45:18 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 03, 2017, 10:43:03 PM
So apparently if dup get 2 in south belfast they still can win petition of concern. Ifgreens win one then they don't. According to twitter.
Looks like Pat Catney may get in at DUPs expense in Lagan Valley which would mean no POC for DUP
I would have thought that the DUP would still get more UU transfers than Catney and squeeze in.
sDLP got more from Palmer than DUP. Next set of UU overages will also contain a lot of her 2nd preferences.
Poor vote management by UUP. If they had balanced better Catney would have been eliminated before Palmer.
As a proportionate loss from 108 to 90 seats, SDLP would have found its level with 10 seats. To move above this is a major achievement and gives heart to the middle ground with UUP to SDLP transfers to spite the DUP. Attwood loss was always accepted given that he should have gone last May. Ritchie in FST was always an outside chance. Catney was 20/1 with Paddy Power and is one in the eye for the DUP from Jenny Palmer voters. Weir should have gone too.
Looking like a very good election for SDLP.
There'll be some craic in The Kitchen Bar tonight
Quote from: Minder on March 03, 2017, 11:42:19 PM
I know it's been said before but Caral Ni Chuilin comes across terribly.
But houl on...their vote has "went up"...jesus wept...
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 03, 2017, 08:10:54 PM
225k people voted for dup. Sometimes it is hard to have faith in humanity :(
Didn't ~40% of voters opt for Brexit? As such, the DUP (& PBP) are the only ones representing them, or so they would see it I guess.
26 all with 5 seats to go. What's left?
Can't abide Catriona Ruane.
Quote from: hardstation on March 04, 2017, 12:09:17 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 03, 2017, 11:56:06 PM
As a proportionate loss from 108 to 90 seats, SDLP would have found its level with 10 seats. To move above this is a major achievement and gives heart to the middle ground with UUP to SDLP transfers to spite the DUP. Attwood loss was always accepted given that he should have gone last May. Ritchie in FST was always an outside chance. Catney was 20/1 with Paddy Power and is one in the eye for the DUP from Jenny Palmer voters. Weir should have gone too.
Looking like a very good election for SDLP.
Lol. Dead on. SDLP are a party of no return. At this stage, they are only going one way. Slán.
Yer balls. You'd have got long odds on SDLP holding their ground in a 90 seat Stormont.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 04, 2017, 12:08:46 AM
26 all with 5 seats to go. What's left?
EB 1 DUP to be elected
SB 2 seats left
EL 2 seats left
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 04, 2017, 12:10:34 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 04, 2017, 12:09:17 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 03, 2017, 11:56:06 PM
As a proportionate loss from 108 to 90 seats, SDLP would have found its level with 10 seats. To move above this is a major achievement and gives heart to the middle ground with UUP to SDLP transfers to spite the DUP. Attwood loss was always accepted given that he should have gone last May. Ritchie in FST was always an outside chance. Catney was 20/1 with Paddy Power and is one in the eye for the DUP from Jenny Palmer voters. Weir should have gone too.
Looking like a very good election for SDLP.
Lol. Dead on. SDLP are a party of no return. At this stage, they are only going one way. Slán.
Yer balls. You'd have got long odds on SDLP holding their ground in a 90 seat Stormont.
10 seats was the equivalent for SDLP in the 90 seater. With 11 seats that is a 10% increase on the last Assembly.
Jesus Edwin Poots is a f**king cretin.
Likely end up, 40 unionists, 39 nationalists and 11 others, probably 28 DUP and 27 SF.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2017, 12:26:47 AM
Likely end up, 40 unionists, 39 nationalists and 11 others, probably 28 DUP and 27 SF.
That's sums up NI politics... sectarian head count
Feck everything else that matters
Quote from: GJL on March 04, 2017, 12:21:50 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2017, 12:18:13 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 04, 2017, 12:16:32 AM
Jesus Edwin Poots is a f**king cretin.
Beat me to it.
Was great to watch him though. He is ripping. Lol.
That man is mental, great entertainment though. Him Sammy and Gregory always give off a good soundbite. Just another example why the DUP will never have a broader appeal outside their loyal hardcore following.
I assume that Jim Allister would be prepared to join the DUP in most things that they would have a petition of concern about.
I doubt it won't be enough as, by the looks of things, they're going to end up on 28
Quote from: dec on March 04, 2017, 12:35:16 AM
I assume that Jim Allister would be prepared to join the DUP in most things that they would have a petition of concern about.
He does not like PoCs nor the DUP. I imagine he would extract a very high price for backing one.
Quote from: LeoMc on March 04, 2017, 12:46:46 AM
Quote from: dec on March 04, 2017, 12:35:16 AM
I assume that Jim Allister would be prepared to join the DUP in most things that they would have a petition of concern about.
He does not like PoCs nor the DUP. I imagine he would extract a very high price for backing one.
But he shares their 'moral' concerns.
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 04, 2017, 01:07:23 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 04, 2017, 12:46:46 AM
Quote from: dec on March 04, 2017, 12:35:16 AM
I assume that Jim Allister would be prepared to join the DUP in most things that they would have a petition of concern about.
He does not like PoCs nor the DUP. I imagine he would extract a very high price for backing one.
But he shares their 'moral' concerns.
However he thinks they lack morals for doing business with SF.
So DUP by one.
Close but no cigar.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2017, 12:31:16 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2017, 12:26:47 AM
Likely end up, 40 unionists, 39 nationalists and 11 others, probably 28 DUP and 27 SF.
That's sums up NI politics... sectarian head count
Feck everything else that matters
True.
Unionists have had to be dragged into modern politics.
As each council\assembly election shows an increase in the nationalist/catholic vote.
The result of this election should show the conservatives that they no longer have a guaranteed support from the majority of voters from here for the policies.
If Sinn Fein make the small step of representing their elecorate at westminster (they have already bowed to the Queen and enjoyed dinner with her). they can negate the DUP's power in London now and make the Unionists go into talks without the automatic backing of the UK Government.
.
DUP 28
SF 27
SDLP 12
UUP 10
AP 8
Others 4
1 seat left. Where is it?
Poor Nesbitt. I can't help but like the fella. Good speech he gave in standing down.
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-northern-ireland-2017-39160945 (http://www.bbc.com/news/election-northern-ireland-2017-39160945)
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 04, 2017, 03:05:00 AM
DUP 28
SF 27
SDLP 12
UUP 10
AP 8
Others 4
1 seat left. Where is it?
South Belfast, Green declared
Greens take last seat in belfast https://www.periscope.tv/w/a4jUgzFQWEVk
Sin é. Off to the leaba.
No real sympathy for Nesbitt. Don't forget at the last Westministerelection he was cozying up to DUP to come up with a pact for agreed unionist candidates. He's completely shallow and just out for himself
The DUP needed 30 to trigger their beloved veto, the petition of concern. They lost a big lead they had going into the election. And they are pro Brexit. Foster is a poor leader. The DUP remind me of Armagh.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2017, 12:31:16 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2017, 12:26:47 AM
Likely end up, 40 unionists, 39 nationalists and 11 others, probably 28 DUP and 27 SF.
That's sums up NI politics... sectarian head count
Feck everything else that matters
What do you expect when a line was drawn on a map to keep one side of the headcount happy nearly 100 years ago.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2017, 06:31:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2017, 12:31:16 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2017, 12:26:47 AM
Likely end up, 40 unionists, 39 nationalists and 11 others, probably 28 DUP and 27 SF.
That's sums up NI politics... sectarian head count
Feck everything else that matters
What do you expect when a line was drawn on a map to keep one side of the headcount happy nearly 100 years ago.
Exactly . It has been sectarian from day 1.
Can't believe Dobson is out. What's wrong with people. And the Little Penguin too.
Meanwhile Foreign Affairs Dept in Dublin is shitting itself as the unionist majority dwindles and the prospect of a border poll intensifies.
Quote from: T Fearon on March 04, 2017, 07:55:04 AM
Meanwhile Foreign Affairs Dept in Dublin is shitting itself as the unionist majority dwindles and the prospect of a border poll intensifies.
Enda Kenny has been calling for a border poll to be discussed in Brexit talks.
You're far more likely to be the one worried about the prospect of a United Ireland.
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 06:14:40 AM
The DUP needed 30 to trigger their beloved veto, the petition of concern. They lost a big lead they had going into the election. And they are pro Brexit. Foster is a poor leader. The DUP remind me of Armagh.
They don't give a shit about brexit sf. It's a tool to "strengthen the union". That is all.
The SDLP calling this a sectarian result is very bad politics. You lose an election you shouldn't react by insulting the electorate.
I didn't vote but I would have voted SF and I'd have been insulted if I was accused of voting for sectarian reasons. Corruption, the Irish language and equality for LGBT community are not sectarian in motive.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 04, 2017, 08:06:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 06:14:40 AM
The DUP needed 30 to trigger their beloved veto, the petition of concern. They lost a big lead they had going into the election. And they are pro Brexit. Foster is a poor leader. The DUP remind me of Armagh.
They don't give a shit about brexit sf. It's a tool to "strengthen the union". That is all.
And the irony is that it has more potential to break the union.
Quote from: T Fearon on March 04, 2017, 07:55:04 AM
Meanwhile Foreign Affairs Dept in Dublin is shitting itself as the unionist majority dwindles and the prospect of a border poll intensifies.
How did you come to that asinine conclusion?
No one including Sinn Fein have made the good economic case for a United Ireland. To give credit to Matt Carthy MEP he did make soundings in that regard.
When Brexit finally kicks there will be no special status for the north. Try convincing the Poles Greeks etc that a small region still under British jurisdiction should get a sweetheart deal.
When the Brussels cheques dries up and Westminster has its arse opened looking after the "mainland" both sides in the north will have to look at alternative political arrangements.
However both north and south is lacking a true leader like Parnell that the country could rally behind
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2017, 06:31:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2017, 12:31:16 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2017, 12:26:47 AM
Likely end up, 40 unionists, 39 nationalists and 11 others, probably 28 DUP and 27 SF.
That's sums up NI politics... sectarian head count
Feck everything else that matters
What do you expect when a line was drawn on a map to keep one side of the headcount happy nearly 100 years ago.
I expect local politicians to create jobs, improve health, generate growth, improved education not separate education... build bridges with our neighbors not divide them further... simple things like that, what do you look for from your politicians?
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 04, 2017, 08:40:59 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on March 04, 2017, 07:55:04 AM
Meanwhile Foreign Affairs Dept in Dublin is shitting itself as the unionist majority dwindles and the prospect of a border poll intensifies.
How did you come to that asinine conclusion?
No one including Sinn Fein have made the good economic case for a United Ireland. To give credit to Matt Carthy MEP he did make soundings in that regard.
When Brexit finally kicks there will be no special status for the north. Try convincing the Poles Greeks etc that a small region still under British jurisdiction should get a sweetheart deal.
When the Brussels cheques dries up and Westminster has its arse opened looking after the "mainland" both sides in the north will have to look at alternative political arrangements.
However both north and south is lacking a true leader like Parnell that the country could rally behind
Nobody cares about the Greeks, least of all the EU. The Poles have a big interest in the ex pats in the UK and might have some voice.
Parnell, FFS
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 04, 2017, 08:06:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 06:14:40 AM
The DUP needed 30 to trigger their beloved veto, the petition of concern. They lost a big lead they had going into the election. And they are pro Brexit. Foster is a poor leader. The DUP remind me of Armagh.
They don't give a shit about brexit sf. It's a tool to "strengthen the union". That is all.
It won't strengthen the union
https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/brexits-long-run-effects-john-van-reenen.pdf
I think the DUP were tangoed. SF wanted Arlene to resign but the politics wouldn't allow it as it would have been perceived as a SF win. So they called an election. And a weakened DUP is now just 1 seat ahead. Arlene reminds me of Babs Keating and the Offaly hurlers.
Re there not being a Parnell, the political conditions are not yet ripe for a mould breaker. There is a saying in German that goes something like where heroes are not forgotten new ones will come.
I think a lot of institutions on the island are close to knackered. When the people demand change is when things will start moving.
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 03, 2017, 10:48:57 PM
Weir in by a whisker against SDLP in Strangford
DUP 5,392.38 SDLP 5,167.09
Shinners fucked Joe Boyle up by standing Kennedy who didn't make the slightest effort, no leaflets, no posters or nothing but still took 1k votes from him. That most certainly would have got Joe over the line at the expense of Weir.
In saying that Joe isn't as clued in on the social media front as the likes of Kellie Armstrong who seems to have mobilised the young mammy vote. Very few aware of Joe's good work at council level helping out the local GAA clubs and so forth.
Only hope for North is that non voters get to the polls.SF and DUP cult followers do not understand nor care about normal politics like Brexit etc,they only care about the brand
Quote from: T Fearon on March 04, 2017, 08:56:19 AM
Only hope for North is that non voters get to the polls.SF and DUP cult followers do not understand nor care about normal politics like Brexit etc,they only care about the brand
Looks like the Catholic Church vote collapsed Tony.....
Huge result for Nationalists with the seat count dropping by 18 and then both keeping the same number of seats (well SF have 27 now instead of 28).
Unionism in turmoil and a resurgence of the SDLP is great to see. To be fair I don't usually vote for SF but Arelene's arrogance and naked bigotry helped to make my mind up this time.
There was talk she needed a minimum 30 seats to solidify her position as party leader it will be interesting to see how she gets through the next few days. I'm sure Gerry and the BBC will get a get plenty of the blame!
FAKE NEWS
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 08:52:23 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 04, 2017, 08:06:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 06:14:40 AM
The DUP needed 30 to trigger their beloved veto, the petition of concern. They lost a big lead they had going into the election. And they are pro Brexit. Foster is a poor leader. The DUP remind me of Armagh.
They don't give a shit about brexit sf. It's a tool to "strengthen the union". That is all.
It won't strengthen the union
https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/brexits-long-run-effects-john-van-reenen.pdf
I think the DUP were tangoed. SF wanted Arlene to resign but the politics wouldn't allow it as it would have been perceived as a SF win. So they called an election. And a weakened DUP is now just 1 seat ahead. Arlene reminds me of Babs Keating and the Offaly hurlers.
Re there not being a Parnell, the political conditions are not yet ripe for a mould breaker. There is a saying in German that goes something like where heroes are not forgotten new ones will come.
I think a lot of institutions on the island are close to knackered. When the people demand change is when things will start moving.
Everyone else knows that.
Quote from: screenexile on March 04, 2017, 09:01:08 AM
Huge result for Nationalists with the seat count dropping by 18 and then both keeping the same number of seats (well SF have 27 now instead of 28).
Unionism in turmoil and a resurgence of the SDLP is great to see. To be fair I don't usually vote for SF but Arelene's arrogance and naked bigotry helped to make my mind up this time.
There was talk she needed a minimum 30 seats to solidify her position as party leader it will be interesting to see how she gets through the next few days. I'm sure Gerry and the BBC will get a get plenty of the blame!
FAKE NEWS
I think the Gerry Adams angle didn't work for her in the election. It would be foolish to keep it up.
Had to laugh at the DUP coming out against bbc bias yesterday. The bbc are big Sinn Fein supporters now apparently ::)
Sinn Fein played the whole thing well. Interesting few weeks ahead.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2017, 08:47:42 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2017, 06:31:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2017, 12:31:16 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2017, 12:26:47 AM
Likely end up, 40 unionists, 39 nationalists and 11 others, probably 28 DUP and 27 SF.
That's sums up NI politics... sectarian head count
Feck everything else that matters
What do you expect when a line was drawn on a map to keep one side of the headcount happy nearly 100 years ago.
I expect local politicians to create jobs, improve health, generate growth, improved education not separate education... build bridges with our neighbors not divide them further... simple things like that, what do you look for from your politicians?
Obviously those things too. However NI will always be unionist v nationalist until a UI comes around.
Kevin Maher and Gorgeous George Galloway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ94BMDiyBU
Will Arlene go? Surely she her arrogance can't go beyond this.
Also, what is the likelihood of Sinn Fein ever taking their seats at Westminster?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2017, 09:11:04 AM
Obviously those things too. However NI will always be unionist v nationalist until a UI comes around.
I think that's a lazy argument. This election shows that's not the case.
If you take into account the results you'll see the issues were, Brexit, Equality (LGBT), Corruption, Irish Language. These are not unionist v nationalist issues.
Some might argue the Irish Language is but for the majority of nationalists and many unionits it isnt.
If we are all nationalist and Unionist the Alliance would not have done so well and the SDLP would not have received Unionist transfers.
It seems this nationalist Unionist divide being protrayed is the product of lazy journalists who don't want to dig into it. It's also taking the election map and seeing it in terms of green and orange. It's how it's always displayed by lazy journalists and media. If it was changed to blue and red for voters who voted for pro and anti Brexit parties it would look different. But, that would mean journalists who made their trade in the 1980s in the north would need to change their ingrained train of thought.
It would also mean southern and UK based journalists having to explain it to their market. It's easier to say green and orange to the their audience than try to explain that there is a modern politic happening in the north.
Quote from: king of leon on March 04, 2017, 09:21:49 AM
Will Arlene go? Surely she her arrogance can't go beyond this.
Also, what is the likelihood of Sinn Fein ever taking their seats at Westminster?
Hard to know on the first one.
Never on the second.
Their electorate don't want it. If they stand on a platform of taking their seats, they won't get elected.
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 09:22:17 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2017, 09:11:04 AM
Obviously those things too. However NI will always be unionist v nationalist until a UI comes around.
I think that's a lazy argument. This election shows that's not the case.
If you take into account the results you'll see the issues were, Brexit, Equality (LGBT), Corruption, Irish Language. These are not unionist v nationalist issues.
Some might argue the Irish Language is but for the majority of nationalists and many unionits it isnt.
If we are all nationalist and Unionist the Alliance would not have done so well and the SDLP would not have received Unionist transfers.
It seems this nationalist Unionist divide being protrayed is the product of lazy journalists who don't want to dig into it. It's also taking the election map and seeing it in terms of green and orange. It's how it's always displayed by lazy journalists and media. If it was changed to blue and red for voters who voted for pro and anti Brexit parties it would look different. But, that would mean journalists who made their trade in the 1980s in the north would need to change their ingrained train of thought.
It would also mean southern and UK based journalists having to explain it to their market. It's easier to say green and orange to the their audience than try to explain that there is a modern politic happening in the north.
Fair enough vallankumous.
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 09:22:17 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2017, 09:11:04 AM
Obviously those things too. However NI will always be unionist v nationalist until a UI comes around.
I think that's a lazy argument. This election shows that's not the case.
If you take into account the results you'll see the issues were, Brexit, Equality (LGBT), Corruption, Irish Language. These are not unionist v nationalist issues.
Some might argue the Irish Language is but for the majority of nationalists and many unionits it isnt.
If we are all nationalist and Unionist the Alliance would not have done so well and the SDLP would not have received Unionist transfers.
It seems this nationalist Unionist divide being protrayed is the product of lazy journalists who don't want to dig into it. It's also taking the election map and seeing it in terms of green and orange. It's how it's always displayed by lazy journalists and media. If it was changed to blue and red for voters who voted for pro and anti Brexit parties it would look different. But, that would mean journalists who made their trade in the 1980s in the north would need to change their ingrained train of thought.
It would also mean southern and UK based journalists having to explain it to their market. It's easier to say green and orange to the their audience than try to explain that there is a modern politic happening in the north.
There seems to be a strong correlation between Unionist seats and areas with Protestant majorities.
for example , red blue yellow
http://elections.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ni-assembly-2017/east-antrim
versus
green green green green red
http://elections.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ni-assembly-2017/west-tyrone
How many UUP transfers did the SDLP get anyway ?
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 08:48:59 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 04, 2017, 08:40:59 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on March 04, 2017, 07:55:04 AM
Meanwhile Foreign Affairs Dept in Dublin is shitting itself as the unionist majority dwindles and the prospect of a border poll intensifies.
How did you come to that asinine conclusion?
No one including Sinn Fein have made the good economic case for a United Ireland. To give credit to Matt Carthy MEP he did make soundings in that regard.
When Brexit finally kicks there will be no special status for the north. Try convincing the Poles Greeks etc that a small region still under British jurisdiction should get a sweetheart deal.
When the Brussels cheques dries up and Westminster has its arse opened looking after the "mainland" both sides in the north will have to look at alternative political arrangements.
However both north and south is lacking a true leader like Parnell that the country could rally behind
Nobody cares about the Greeks, least of all the EU. The Poles have a big interest in the ex pats in the UK and might have some voice.
Parnell, FFS
You badly need to read up on European history. Its not all about the six counties. The EU and USA need Greece to be pro Europe and not pro Moscow. Why do you think the Generals rules Greece in the 70s? Poland with its history is the same. Dont be relying on Wojcieh in McDonalds Kings Cross to have any influence on Brexit.
As for Parnell and your FFS comment. Your knowledge of Irish history is as bad as your knowledge of European history.
Dont worry the pubs are opening soon. You can pop down and have a pint while you read The Sun
Quote from: screenexile on March 04, 2017, 09:01:08 AM
Huge result for Nationalists with the seat count dropping by 18 and then both keeping the same number of seats (well SF have 27 now instead of 28).
Unionism in turmoil and a resurgence of the SDLP is great to see. To be fair I don't usually vote for SF but Arelene's arrogance and naked bigotry helped to make my mind up this time.
There was talk she needed a minimum 30 seats to solidify her position as party leader it will be interesting to see how she gets through the next few days. I'm sure Gerry and the BBC will get a get plenty of the blame!
FAKE NEWS
The sort of attitudes held by the DUP are massive own goals for unionism. I was 16/17 around the time of the Fleg Protests. I was always pretty political but the majority of people of a similar age didn't really care that much, weren't altogether too pushed on a UI (certainly wouldn't have spent much time worrying about it) and definitely wouldn't have followed politics closely. In come the fleggers and everything changed, their centrist and 'not really interested' opinion shifted to relatively hardline nationalism and a definite interest in Stormont. I would say that I see a post on Facebook every day from some of them about SF, the Irish language, sharing something from LAD etc or commenting on newspaper articles about northern (and southern/UK) politics.
I would imagine something similar happened with the 15/16 year olds of today after the rogues and renegades BS, closely followed up by Brexit, crocodiles and whatever other nonsense Arlene has come out with over the past 12 months. As long as Unionism keeps the dinosaurs in the DUP ticking over, they keep producing a generation of politicised nationalists. Just like Brexit, cutting off their nose to spite their face in the long run.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2017, 08:47:42 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2017, 06:31:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2017, 12:31:16 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2017, 12:26:47 AM
Likely end up, 40 unionists, 39 nationalists and 11 others, probably 28 DUP and 27 SF.
That's sums up NI politics... sectarian head count
Feck everything else that matters
What do you expect when a line was drawn on a map to keep one side of the headcount happy nearly 100 years ago.
I expect local politicians to create jobs, improve health, generate growth, improved education not separate education... build bridges with our neighbors not divide them further... simple things like that, what do you look for from your politicians?
So who did you vote for then?
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 08:13:11 AM
The SDLP calling this a sectarian result is very bad politics. You lose an election you shouldn't react by insulting the electorate.
I didn't vote but I would have voted SF and I'd have been insulted if I was accused of voting for sectarian reasons. Corruption, the Irish language and equality for LGBT community are not sectarian in motive.
Well there should end your contribution to any discussion. Btw SDLP didn't lose they increased seats by 20% on equivalence and narrowly beaten by 143 votes in Strangford which would have almost match SF increase on equivalence.
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 09:07:33 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 04, 2017, 09:01:08 AM
Huge result for Nationalists with the seat count dropping by 18 and then both keeping the same number of seats (well SF have 27 now instead of 28).
Unionism in turmoil and a resurgence of the SDLP is great to see. To be fair I don't usually vote for SF but Arelene's arrogance and naked bigotry helped to make my mind up this time.
There was talk she needed a minimum 30 seats to solidify her position as party leader it will be interesting to see how she gets through the next few days. I'm sure Gerry and the BBC will get a get plenty of the blame!
FAKE NEWS
I think the Gerry Adams angle didn't work for her in the election. It would be foolish to keep it up.
Without using Adams she would have seen meltdown. Unionism exists and feeds on bogeymen. It has always created them and used them to great effect. The mindset of unionism has always been a siege mentality and nationalism has risen above it by having a vision and confidence in all aspects of life.
Quote from: johnneycool on March 04, 2017, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 03, 2017, 10:48:57 PM
Weir in by a whisker against SDLP in Strangford
DUP 5,392.38 SDLP 5,167.09
Shinners fucked Joe Boyle up by standing Kennedy who didn't make the slightest effort, no leaflets, no posters or nothing but still took 1k votes from him. That most certainly would have got Joe over the line at the expense of Weir.
In saying that Joe isn't as clued in on the social media front as the likes of Kellie Armstrong who seems to have mobilised the young mammy vote. Very few aware of Joe's good work at council level helping out the local GAA clubs and so forth.
I would presume that SF strategy also included maximising their total first preference , as well as optimising their seat count. But Their apparent lack of electioneering in Strangford was possibly an indication that they would have been happy enough to see Joe get over the line. The SDLP have been in a very difficult position for years. It would be almost impossible for them to regain their position as the main nationalist party , so in a party political sense they have to make every effort to maintain their representation. Though their vote has been steadily dropping whilst the "nationalist" population has been increasing, their attempts to attract unionist transfers actually proved "successful" in terms of retaining their seat count. However ,their decision to opportunistically co-blame sinn féin for the fall of Stormont , angered many nationalists. There has been a growing feeling that some in the DUP wanted to go back to a pre-1969 , and the sneering disrespect for nationalist culture and aspirations actually motivated more than 60,000 extra nationalists to the polls. There was an incredible 35% increase in Sinn Féin votes in only 9 months. Arlene's anti-Sinn Féin scaremongering rallied her own troops with 9% increase in DUP vote, but in the process she has given Sinn Féin a massive lift and many DUP stalwarts are out of a job. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the DUPs post election meeting, where she is bound to be given her marching orders. From a nationalist perspective, many will be disappointed as this election came within a whisker of an end to nearly 100 years of unionist rule in this part of the country. Your accusation that sinn féin should have stepped aside for Joe , could equally be targeted at SDLP candidates who , if they stepped aside , could have secured a nationalist majority in the 6 counties for the first time ever. SDLP appear to have "softened" over the years Eg Pat Catney and others talking about making " this country" (presumably NI) work. Many nationalists have little interest in making "this country work" because they feel it has been given 100 years to work and continues to fail miserably.
Quote from: johnneycool on March 04, 2017, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 03, 2017, 10:48:57 PM
Weir in by a whisker against SDLP in Strangford
DUP 5,392.38 SDLP 5,167.09
Shinners fucked Joe Boyle up by standing Kennedy who didn't make the slightest effort, no leaflets, no posters or nothing but still took 1k votes from him. That most certainly would have got Joe over the line at the expense of Weir.
In saying that Joe isn't as clued in on the social media front as the likes of Kellie Armstrong who seems to have mobilised the young mammy vote. Very few aware of Joe's good work at council level helping out the local GAA clubs and so forth.
It`s a pity that there`s not more cooperation between Nationalists in an area like this where there is a hint of a seat . Joe has been very unlucky over the years always just ending up outside the Bubble . The Shinners were right the run , if they didn`t they would have been accused of playing the sectarian card , it`s just a pity Kennedy didn`t make the effort and also ask people to transfer to Joe !
How many in the DUP assembly/Westminster group defected from the UUP other than Foster and Donaldson? DUP policy for years has been based on vilification of SF and then working with them begrudgingly . There is nothing else really in terms of strategy and now the demographics are catching up with them.
Nelson McCausland, Peter Weir, Brenda Hale, Jonathan Bell are 4 that spring to mind
At least the tabloid headlines offer a smile.
"Nesbit the Dust"
In theory, the model of the assembly is that largest opposition parties have to negotiate with each other in order to get stuff done, but in that model is the seed of its demise, the impasse.
Judging by the rise in nationalist vote, not just for Sinn Fein but also the SDLP I take it that Foster succeeded in deeply insulting most all nationalists, of every shade of green.
Now she wants a return to civility ::) I'd say the DUP will have to get rid of her now that she has done her duty and outliving her usefulness, in order for the assembly to have a chance to function to some extent.
I wouldn't underestimate the DUP's desire for power and avoid the final steps to assembly destruction.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 04, 2017, 10:20:28 AM
Nelson McCausland, Peter Weir, Brenda Hale, Jonathan Bell are 4 that spring to mind
GRMA
Quote from: Main Street on March 04, 2017, 10:24:55 AM
At least the tabloid headlines offer a smile.
"Nesbit the Dust"
In theory, the model of the assembly is that largest opposition parties have to negotiate with each other in order to get stuff done, but in that model is the seed of its demise, the impasse.
Judging by the rise in nationalist vote, not just for Sinn Fein but also the SDLP I take it that Foster succeeded in deeply insulting most all nationalists, of every shade of green.
Now she wants a return to civility ::) I'd say the DUP will have to get rid of her now that she has done her duty and outliving her usefulness, in order for the assembly to have a chance to function to some extent.
I wouldn't underestimate the DUP's desire for power and avoid the final steps to assembly destruction.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they hold out now for another election in 6 weeks time. They can blame SF intransigence then use the scare tactics of a possible SF First Minister to help maximise their vote and discourage UUP transfers to SDLP.
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on March 03, 2017, 08:51:15 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 17, 2017, 01:03:46 PM
SF running 4 candidates in FST last time out cost them a seat, if they run 3 this time out they should get them all returned.
There are 2 seats in Upper Bann for SF if they manage their vote properly.
I reckon Newry & Armagh will be 3SF, 1DUP & 1SDLP with Danny Kennedy to lose out.
Strangford will be interesting to see if Jonathan Bell damages the DUP vote.
O'Dowd is better known, Cat Seeley standing down was a mistake, she could have stood down afterwards. Kelly is a dose and very negative in her approach to the nationalist community.
Nearly called it right, I can't believe Dolores Kelly got returned. Did I hear right that some areas that were to vote Toman voted for O'Dowd?
Quote from: T Fearon on March 04, 2017, 08:56:19 AM
Only hope for North is that non voters get to the polls.SF and DUP cult followers do not understand nor care about normal politics like Brexit etc,they only care about the brand
Graceful as ever.
Odious Poots on UTV. Take no shite Michelle!
Unionist overall majority is gone, and forever ... enough said.
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 04, 2017, 10:46:10 AM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on March 03, 2017, 08:51:15 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 17, 2017, 01:03:46 PM
SF running 4 candidates in FST last time out cost them a seat, if they run 3 this time out they should get them all returned.
There are 2 seats in Upper Bann for SF if they manage their vote properly.
I reckon Newry & Armagh will be 3SF, 1DUP & 1SDLP with Danny Kennedy to lose out.
Strangford will be interesting to see if Jonathan Bell damages the DUP vote.
O'Dowd is better known, Cat Seeley standing down was a mistake, she could have stood down afterwards. Kelly is a dose and very negative in her approach to the nationalist community.
Nearly called it right, I can't believe Dolores Kelly got returned. Did I hear right that some areas that were to vote Toman voted for O'Dowd?
Not sure about that but i did hear that over 1000 votes for Dolores were transfered from the UUP.
Quote from: king of leon on March 04, 2017, 09:21:49 AM
Will Arlene go? Surely she her arrogance can't go beyond this.
Also, what is the likelihood of Sinn Fein ever taking their seats at Westminster?
This has been a disaster of an election for the DUP. She will be forced out from within.
I still think Shinners have boxed themselves in by making Arlene a red line issue. DUP will dig their heels in. Direct rule is much more attractive to them than working to Shinner agenda. Tories will be happy to have their lapdog available throughout Brevity and won't pressure them.
Shinners should play nice, get Assembly back, then push o with legislation. Language Act, gay marriage and anything reasonable will be unstoppable.
Unfortunately I think they have a hostage to fortune with Arlene and a period of direct rule lies ahead.
/Jim.
Quote from: GJL on March 04, 2017, 11:06:54 AM
Quote from: king of leon on March 04, 2017, 09:21:49 AM
Will Arlene go? Surely she her arrogance can't go beyond this.
Also, what is the likelihood of Sinn Fein ever taking their seats at Westminster?
This has been a disaster of an election for the DUP. She will be forced out from within.
Has to be. And in fairness, that might be the only measure that actually brings about an agreement to form a government
You have to look at equivalences to see how all fared:
DUP 38 (2016) equals 32 (2017) achieved 28 down by 12.5%
SF 28 (2016) equals 23 (2017) achieved 27 up by 17.4%
UUP 16 (2016) equals 13 (2017) achieved 10 down by 23.1%
SDLP 12 (2016) equals 10 (2017) achieved 12 up by 20%
Alliance 8 (2016) equals 7 (2017) achieved 8 up by 14.3%
Foster, by running a campaign based on fear, division and people's emotions has reawakened nationalism/republicanism. She is damaged goods and if she manages to survive (which I don't think she will) it could help the cause of nationalism further given her snarling, condescending personality. The best thing SF can do is to refuse to enter government with her since that will increase the likelihood that she won't go (which will benefit SF) due to her refusal to be seen to bowing their wishes.
Go online. Read the Newsletter editorial. They are as good as telling Unionists to keep Arlene and go for direct rule. The bogeyman of Joint Authority died with Tories and Brexit.
/Jim
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on March 04, 2017, 11:12:30 AM
I still think Shinners have boxed themselves in by making Arlene a red line issue. DUP will dig their heels in. Direct rule is much more attractive to them than working to Shinner agenda. Tories will be happy to have their lapdog available throughout Brevity and won't pressure them.
Shinners should play nice, get Assembly back, then push o with legislation. Language Act, gay marriage and anything reasonable will be unstoppable.
Unfortunately I think they have a hostage to fortune with Arlene and a period of direct rule lies ahead.
/Jim.
A SF strategy is to have direct rule and run around the back of DUP to demand the two governments implement changes that DUP would block, e.g. language act, UK wide equal marriage, abortion law. This is chancy given the link between DUP and Theresa May. Much better to go back in and stick it to DUP with the shift in power. With opposition likely to continue, there is a chance to bring Justice into DeHondt and share the 10 ministries giving no one overall power in the Executive. But Adams has no interest in constructive politics and can only deal in agitation and protest.
It will be interesting to see how the factions in the DUP deal with the situation, it is a party with severe dividing lines.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on March 04, 2017, 11:21:44 AM
Go online. Read the Newsletter editorial. They are as good as telling Unionists to keep Arlene and go for direct rule. The bogeyman of Joint Authority died with Tories and Brexit.
/Jim
Might work for them in the short term, but when they begin to realise the cuts in benefits and further disintegration of the economy it would not be a good long term strategy for them. SF also will be going with a strong mandate for a border poll before any form of direct rule is implemented.
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 09:32:55 AM
There seems to be a strong correlation between Unionist seats and areas with Protestant majorities.
for example , red blue yellow
http://elections.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ni-assembly-2017/east-antrim
versus
green green green green red
http://elections.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ni-assembly-2017/west-tyrone
How many UUP transfers did the SDLP get anyway ?
Yes agreed but it does not allow for the fact that these political parties stand on many issues related to a normal political landscape.
If I'm a protestant unionist I'll vote unionist but I'll vote along social issues and that will not be taken into account.
For example, I might vote TUV for their immigration stance or DUP for their stance on LGBT or UUP for their position on RHI. The fact that they are Unionist just happens to be a bonus but it did not come into my thinking when casting my vote. It's just there and I'd like to be judged on my political stance on a range of issues not by the fact that I'm a protestant living in the east.
I talk politics with many Unionists and we agree and disagree on many issues. They are Unionists, that's a reasonable political position to have. They are also, left, right, green, industrial, agricultural, urban etc. This is what defines their politics and what they like to discuss. Now, if they were to talk to Tommy Gorman he'd not care a jot about any of that.
Heard an interesting stat that there was only 1000 votes be between the nationalist vote and the DUP? Or are radio Ulster getting there facts wrong?
The SF vote was 1000 less than the DUP vote, which marginally saved the DUP further embarrassment.
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 04, 2017, 09:35:45 AM
You badly need to read up on European history. Its not all about the six counties. The EU and USA need Greece to be pro Europe and not pro Moscow. Why do you think the Generals rules Greece in the 70s? Poland with its history is the same. Dont be relying on Wojcieh in McDonalds Kings Cross to have any influence on Brexit.
As for Parnell and your FFS comment. Your knowledge of Irish history is as bad as your knowledge of European history.
Dont worry the pubs are opening soon. You can pop down and have a pint while you read The Sun
Yes mum.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2017, 11:40:30 AM
The SF vote was 1000 less than the DUP vote, which marginally saved the DUP further embarrassment.
As Lenin once said ""There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen."
And demographic parity plus Brexit is similarly weighted with meaning
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 04, 2017, 10:49:55 AM
Odious Poots on UTV. Take no shite Michelle!
You know the way that a person's public persona and private persona can differ greatly. Well that's the case with Edwin. I met him a few times when he was a Minister and I can tell you he's even more odious in private than he is in public.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 04, 2017, 12:04:09 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 04, 2017, 10:49:55 AM
Odious Poots on UTV. Take no shite Michelle!
You know the way that a person's public persona and private persona can differ greatly. Well that's the case with Edwin. I met him a few times when he was a Minister and I can tell you he's even more odious in private than he is in public.
f**k! Is it possible that he could be worse? He knows the writing is on the wall and can't hide his poisonous disgust.
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 04, 2017, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 09:07:33 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 04, 2017, 09:01:08 AM
Huge result for Nationalists with the seat count dropping by 18 and then both keeping the same number of seats (well SF have 27 now instead of 28).
Unionism in turmoil and a resurgence of the SDLP is great to see. To be fair I don't usually vote for SF but Arelene's arrogance and naked bigotry helped to make my mind up this time.
There was talk she needed a minimum 30 seats to solidify her position as party leader it will be interesting to see how she gets through the next few days. I'm sure Gerry and the BBC will get a get plenty of the blame!
FAKE NEWS
I think the Gerry Adams angle didn't work for her in the election. It would be foolish to keep it up.
Without using Adams she would have seen meltdown. Unionism exists and feeds on bogeymen. It has always created them and used them to great effect. The mindset of unionism has always been a siege mentality and nationalism has risen above it by having a vision and confidence in all aspects of life.
Correct
The repetitive Gerry antics of snarline probably got them over the line
What is interesting about this is the ones this strategy appealed to are the older entrenches voters
Ten year down the line they won't be here
Quote from: lurganblue on March 04, 2017, 11:06:21 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 04, 2017, 10:46:10 AM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on March 03, 2017, 08:51:15 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 17, 2017, 01:03:46 PM
SF running 4 candidates in FST last time out cost them a seat, if they run 3 this time out they should get them all returned.
There are 2 seats in Upper Bann for SF if they manage their vote properly.
I reckon Newry & Armagh will be 3SF, 1DUP & 1SDLP with Danny Kennedy to lose out.
Strangford will be interesting to see if Jonathan Bell damages the DUP vote.
O'Dowd is better known, Cat Seeley standing down was a mistake, she could have stood down afterwards. Kelly is a dose and very negative in her approach to the nationalist community.
Nearly called it right, I can't believe Dolores Kelly got returned. Did I hear right that some areas that were to vote Toman voted for O'Dowd?
Not sure about that but i did hear that over 1000 votes for Dolores were transfered from the UUP.
That figures as she is pro OWC.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 04, 2017, 12:04:09 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 04, 2017, 10:49:55 AM
Odious Poots on UTV. Take no shite Michelle!
You know the way that a person's public persona and private persona can differ greatly. Well that's the case with Edwin. I met him a few times when he was a Minister and I can tell you he's even more odious in private than he is in public.
Likewise and I'd agree.
It is no coincidence that SF's increase in votes came when they stood up to the Dup and collapsed Stormont. Most Sinn Fein voters don't believe that NI should exist let alone that republicans should take a part in ruling it. Their vote was shredding previously as their voters were sickened by them constantly being treated with contempt by unionists, accepting insults and arrogance whilst turing the other cheek. Only when they grew a pair and stood up to the arrogance did they reverse the trend of a shrinking nat/rep vote. IMO their role is to demonstrate that NI is ungovernable and is an unsustainable entity. Pity it took the Dup to, unwittingly in their arrogance, demonstrate it for them.
If they roll over post this election I forecast that they will kiss goodbye to the gains made now at any futture elections.
I think the roll over days are gone. SF are not stupid they will have seen what happens when you let the DUP lead you by the nose.
The DUP lost their veto. Does this mean Unionists will be forced into gay marriages ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TREKaEGBD_s
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 04, 2017, 12:13:02 PM
It is no coincidence that SF's increase in votes came when they stood up to the Dup and collapsed Stormont. Most Sinn Fein voters don't believe that NI should exist let alone that republicans should take a part in ruling it. Their vote was shredding previously as their voters were sickened by them constantly being treated with contempt by unionists, accepting insults and arrogance whilst turing the other cheek. Only when they grew a pair and stood up to the arrogance did they reverse the trend of a shrinking nat/rep vote. IMO their role is to demonstrate that NI is ungovernable and is an unsustainable entity. Pity it took the Dup to, unwittingly in their arrogance, demonstrate it for them.
If they roll over post this election I forecast that they will kiss goodbye to the gains made now at any futture elections.
That's it in a nutshell.
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 12:15:57 PM
The DUP lost their veto. Does this mean Unionists will be forced into gay marriages ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TREKaEGBD_s
Yip, shotgun gay marriage.
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 04, 2017, 12:15:29 PM
I think the roll over days are gone. SF are not stupid they will have seen what happens when you let the DUP lead you by the nose.
I don't subscribe to this completely
SF electorate including myself realise that MC Guinness bent over backwards to try and make it work
But to no avail
Couple this with the DUPs behaviour this last few years and their indifference to the nationalist electorate
Snarline attitude was the last straw
It turned the nationalist vote from an apathetic sleeper into a wounded animal
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 04, 2017, 12:13:02 PM
It is no coincidence that SF's increase in votes came when they stood up to the Dup and collapsed Stormont. Most Sinn Fein voters don't believe that NI should exist let alone that republicans should take a part in ruling it. Their vote was shredding previously as their voters were sickened by them constantly being treated with contempt by unionists, accepting insults and arrogance whilst turing the other cheek. Only when they grew a pair and stood up to the arrogance did they reverse the trend of a shrinking nat/rep vote. IMO their role is to demonstrate that NI is ungovernable and is an unsustainable entity. Pity it took the Dup to, unwittingly in their arrogance, demonstrate it for them.
If they roll over post this election I forecast that they will kiss goodbye to the gains made now at any futture elections.
Yes, I agree that this give them the lift. However, they did still hold a large part of their vote.
I am one who give up on them with the brinkmanship game and was delighted when they pulled the plug on Arlegator.
However, i think it's ungovernable because it's unsustainable not because there are two ethic people living there.
be interesting to see how long it takes the unionists to start shouting about splitting their vote to let nationalists/republicans in as main force now,will there be calls for unionist groups to reunite as 1 so they can keep the nationalists down and put them back in their place as this is what the majority of unionists still cling to,glad to see danny kennedy get the bullet in my area,i know he has done/helped nationalists in the past and would have got transfers from some but he shot himself in the foot the other day by displaying his bigotry and saying he would only be asking his supporters to transfer to other unionist candidates!!!!pity that other **** poots wasnt with him!!!
Quote from: whatifs on March 04, 2017, 01:16:40 PM
be interesting to see how long it takes the unionists to start shouting about splitting their vote to let nationalists/republicans in as main force now,will there be calls for unionist groups to reunite as 1 so they can keep the nationalists down and put them back in their place as this is what the majority of unionists still cling to,glad to see danny kennedy get the bullet in my area,i know he has done/helped nationalists in the past and would have got transfers from some but he shot himself in the foot the other day by displaying his bigotry and saying he would only be asking his supporters to transfer to other unionist candidates!!!!pity that other **** poots wasnt with him!!!
Unionists are obsessed with this idea of a unified party. Can't see it happening any time soon though.
Obsessed with bloody pacts and transferring to other unionist parties as well. Horrifically negative approach to politics.
Had a look at Edwin Poots' facebook and most of them seem to be blaming Mike Nesbitt. It's not Mike Nesbitt's fault Sinn Fein found an extra 60k votes in less than a year.
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 12:28:33 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 12:15:57 PM
The DUP lost their veto. Does this mean Unionists will be forced into gay marriages ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TREKaEGBD_s
Yip, shotgun gay marriage.
Conducted in Irish by a Catholic priest.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2017, 01:32:29 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 12:28:33 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 12:15:57 PM
The DUP lost their veto. Does this mean Unionists will be forced into gay marriages ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TREKaEGBD_s
Yip, shotgun gay marriage.
Conducted in Irish by a Catholic priest.
with obligatory GAA jerseys
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 01:39:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2017, 01:32:29 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 12:28:33 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 12:15:57 PM
The DUP lost their veto. Does this mean Unionists will be forced into gay marriages ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TREKaEGBD_s
Yip, shotgun gay marriage.
Conducted in Irish by a Catholic priest.
with obligatory GAA jerseys
let's not be too harsh on them, no man should be forced to wear a Down jersey against his will.
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 04, 2017, 11:19:00 AM
You have to look at equivalences to see how all fared:
DUP 38 (2016) equals 32 (2017) achieved 28 down by 12.5%
SF 28 (2016) equals 23 (2017) achieved 27 up by 17.4%
UUP 16 (2016) equals 13 (2017) achieved 10 down by 23.1%
SDLP 12 (2016) equals 10 (2017) achieved 12 up by 20%
Alliance 8 (2016) equals 7 (2017) achieved 8 up by 14.3%
If the turnout goes back down at the next election, DUP will be the big winners. If foster is gone by then, will the extra 10% that came out this time stay at home?
The change in the balance of power this time is symbolic but I wouldn't be certain that it's permanent. It would be interesting to see the age profile of DUP voters.
It will be interesting to see what happens next.
If Arlene is not gone by early next week, either of her own accord or from within the party, then SF will have a dilemma- are they prepared to go into government with Arlene at the helm. I think they will lose credibility if they do and personally I cant see them doing so.
So if negotiations start with Arlene still there and SF stand their ground, Arlene then has a dilemma and I cant see her backing down at SFs behest either
So we could well face a new election if Arlene is still in situ much longer as SF have insisted they won't go in with her, she wont back down at their request and strategically the DUP might think they are almost bound to be able to galvanise a few more voters out this time around given SFs rise and the UUP turmoil. You can almost hear the rally cry already
A new election could be bad news, especially for the SDLP- they squeezed out 12 seats out of an average showing in my opinion. It could easily have been 9/10. Pat Gafney and John Dallat in particular benefited from Unionist transfers it seems. With SF's rise, I cant see those transfers happening again. I can also see some more traditional SDLP voters veering to SF in a new election as they might look at and think they are in touching distance and see a transfer as a chance to get them over the line.
On balance, I can see us back at the polls with an ever more polarised vote next time around.......farcical.
The common view seems to be that Nesbitt going has put pressure on Arlene. I think he jumped too quick. Firstly, it was just plain bad leadership doing it at the time and in the fashion that he did. Secondly, I think he has actually given Arlene some wriggle room- there will be some calling for Arlene to stay on the basis that Unionism cannot lose 2 leaders in a week.
Nothing will be solved.A lot of SDLP seats won on UUP transfers which wont happen again.This election will produce one super unionist party with a totally hardline attitude and on and on this crap will go to the detriment of everyone here
Quote from: T Fearon on March 04, 2017, 02:26:53 PM
Nothing will be solved.A lot of SDLP seats won on UUP transfers which wont happen again.This election will produce one super unionist party with a totally hardline attitude and on and on this crap will go to the detriment of everyone here
What we need is progressive thinkers like you in politics.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 04, 2017, 09:56:54 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2017, 08:47:42 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2017, 06:31:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2017, 12:31:16 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2017, 12:26:47 AM
Likely end up, 40 unionists, 39 nationalists and 11 others, probably 28 DUP and 27 SF.
That's sums up NI politics... sectarian head count
Feck everything else that matters
What do you expect when a line was drawn on a map to keep one side of the headcount happy nearly 100 years ago.
I expect local politicians to create jobs, improve health, generate growth, improved education not separate education... build bridges with our neighbors not divide them further... simple things like that, what do you look for from your politicians?
So who did you vote for then?
That's between me and the ballot box
Who did you vote for?
What we really need is a UI and get on with it. The whole situation here is like someone watching an iceberg coming at a boat, just get it over with.
Th fact that there is no longer a Unionist majority in Stormont will, I believe, encourage more nationalist voters to vote the next time.
If Sinn Fein stand their ground against the DUP, a lot of voters who had stopped voting will come back to them.
Read this carefully.Britain does not want or regard Northern Unionists as their people.Dublin does not want or regard Northern nationalists as their people.Ulster unionism and Northern nationalism are redundant philosophies therefore
Quote from: T Fearon on March 04, 2017, 02:41:40 PM
Read this carefully.Britain does not want or regard Northern Unionists as their people.Dublin does not want or regard Northern nationalists as their people.Ulster unionism and Northern nationalism are redundant philosophies therefore
Recent opinion polls have shown that the south would take the 6C, so that argument doesn't hold much water.
Quote from: T Fearon on March 04, 2017, 02:41:40 PM
Read this carefully.Britain does not want or regard Northern Unionists as their people.Dublin does not want or regard Northern nationalists as their people.Ulster unionism and Northern nationalism are redundant philosophies therefore
No matter how carefully we read it, it is still bollix.
Quote from: T Fearon on March 04, 2017, 02:41:40 PM
Read this carefully.Britain does not want or regard Northern Unionists as their people.Dublin does not want or regard Northern nationalists as their people.Ulster unionism and Northern nationalism are redundant philosophies therefore
That's not the case. northern nationalists and unionists are philosophies in their own right.
Yes but what is the point of owing allegiance to states who do not want you or regard you as their people? I'd say the Dublin Govt is shitting itself after this election.
Quote from: T Fearon on March 04, 2017, 02:41:40 PM
Read this carefully.Britain does not want or regard Northern Unionists as their people.Dublin does not want or regard Northern nationalists as their people.Ulster unionism and Northern nationalism are redundant philosophies therefore
And who told you this, facts would suggest otherwise if the conditions are right. Brexit has changed the landscape.
Ordinarily I would think that a period of some form of joint governance would be the preferred option for now, but the problem is that the 2 parties in government in both jurisdictions would be traditionally be seen as the most favourably disposed towards the union. A new Irish government with a greater focus on Irish unity would fight the corner for northern nationalists much better.
Quote from: T Fearon on March 04, 2017, 03:02:12 PM
Yes but what is the point of owing allegiance to states who do not want you or regard you as their people? I'd say the Dublin Govt is shitting itself after this election.
I don't know anyone in the north that owes it's allegiance to the southern state. I don't think nationalism is about that. It's a national identity not a statehood identity. Nobody is saying they want to live in Dundalk. The state is a very separate thing. The Government in the south are of no concern to national identity. They are administrators of the State, not a national figure.
As for Unionism, they are part of the UK. In this case it makes no difference what the rest of the UK think. They have their unique identity within Britain. They do not have allegiance to the UK Government of the day. They have allegiance to the Union as Irish Unionists.
Quote from: T Fearon on March 04, 2017, 02:41:40 PM
Read this carefully.Britain does not want or regard Northern Unionists as their people.Dublin does not want or regard Northern nationalists as their people.Ulster unionism and Northern nationalism are redundant philosophies therefore
Read this slowly and carefully Tony, the only redundant philosophy articulated on this forum is blind loyalty to a failing religious institution.
Quote from: T Fearon on March 04, 2017, 02:41:40 PM
Read this carefully.in my opinion with no basis in fact whatsoever, as well as an abundance of non sequiturs and poor grammar, and in spite of significant evidence to the contrary my ego wants you all to know that I think thatBritain does not want or regard Northern Unionists as their people.Dublin does not want or regard Northern nationalists as their people.Ulster unionism and Northern nationalism are redundant philosophies therefore I have taken the decision to stop posting nonsense on this board
Fixed that for you...
The other major players in this are the British and Irish governments. The change from a labour to Tory government has not helped progress in recent years . The "green" community in the North have absolutely no affinity with Torys, who have been consistently antagonistic or apathetic towards them. Tory values and policies are in direct contrast to those of the 2 major nationalist parties. The Tories have Been in power for most of the last 50 years and it's no coincidence that the period of most progress in that time was under Labour's watch. It is obvious that the Torys can not be considered honest brokers in any negotiations, not least because they have a vested interest in looking after the DUP. Equally important is the role of the Irish government, with Fine Gael being vehement political opponents of Sinn Féin , never mind the fact that they originate from those who in the eyes of many "hung northern nationalists out to dry in 1921" . Ironically if you exclude supporters of the Torys and the DUP, and to a lesser extent UUP/Fine Gael, the vast majority of people on these two islands , would be strongly in favour of equality, and at the very least, close links between north and south. There is no doubt that we are heading towards some form of unity, and the challenge for nationalists is to try to convince the 5% of the island's population who voted unionist , that their strong British identity will be respected in any new institutions. At the same time politicians need to ensure that regardless of any short/medium/long term constitutional solutions, that our focus should be on health/education/employment/poverty in the meantime .
Quote from: 6th sam on March 04, 2017, 03:29:10 PM
The other major players in this are the British and Irish governments. The change from a labour to Tory government has not helped progress in recent years . The "green" community in the North have absolutely no affinity with Torys, who have been consistently antagonistic or apathetic towards them. Tory values and policies are in direct contrast to those of the 2 major nationalist parties. The Tories have Been in power for most of the last 50 years and it's no coincidence that the period of most progress in that time was under Labour's watch. It is obvious that the Torys can not be considered honest brokers in any negotiations, not least because they have a vested interest in looking after the DUP. Equally important is the role of the Irish government, with Fine Gael being vehement political opponents of Sinn Féin , never mind the fact that they originate from those who in the eyes of many "hung northern nationalists out to dry in 1921" . Ironically if you exclude supporters of the Torys and the DUP, and to a lesser extent UUP/Fine Gael, the vast majority of people on these two islands , would be strongly in favour of equality, and at the very least, close links between north and south. There is no doubt that we are heading towards some form of unity, and the challenge for nationalists is to try to convince the 5% of the island's population who voted unionist , that their strong British identity will be respected in any new institutions. At the same time politicians need to ensure that regardless of any short/medium/long term constitutional solutions, that we our focus should be on health/education/employment/poverty in the meantime .
No party in the north, nationalist or unionist have affinity with the Tories. Of course some are closer in political terms but there's no affinity. The DUP and the UUP are political parties in their own right equal to the right the Tories and Labour have.
Labour are no better or worse than the Tories when it comes to dealing with parties in the north. It's the Tory social position that nationalists rally against moreso than Labours. Labour have a bad history of treatment of northern nationalists too.
Labour took power at a time that things began to change in the north and the progress was made in the north. All credit for this is with the people of the north who seen a chance through a variety of leaders and began to demand things change. Labour were the ones that happened to be there. Add to that, we we lucky that they held power for long enough to see it through along with FF. If either of them had have lost an election around the time of the GFA we would be in a different place. A lot of things came together and lasted long enough to implement a change.
Quote from: 6th sam on March 04, 2017, 03:29:10 PM
The other major players in this are the British and Irish governments. The change from a labour to Tory government has not helped progress in recent years . The "green" community in the North have absolutely no affinity with Torys, who have been consistently antagonistic or apathetic towards them. Tory values and policies are in direct contrast to those of the 2 major nationalist parties. The Tories have Been in power for most of the last 50 years and it's no coincidence that the period of most progress in that time was under Labour's watch. It is obvious that the Torys can not be considered honest brokers in any negotiations, not least because they have a vested interest in looking after the DUP. Equally important is the role of the Irish government, with Fine Gael being vehement political opponents of Sinn Féin , never mind the fact that they originate from those who in the eyes of many "hung northern nationalists out to dry in 1921" . Ironically if you exclude supporters of the Torys and the DUP, and to a lesser extent UUP/Fine Gael, the vast majority of people on these two islands , would be strongly in favour of equality, and at the very least, close links between north and south. There is no doubt that we are heading towards some form of unity, and the challenge for nationalists is to try to convince the 5% of the island's population who voted unionist , that their strong British identity will be respected in any new institutions. At the same time politicians need to ensure that regardless of any short/medium/long term constitutional solutions, that our focus should be on health/education/employment/poverty in the meantime .
You can't seriously believe there will be a 6th Sam!!
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 03:38:29 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on March 04, 2017, 03:29:10 PM
The other major players in this are the British and Irish governments. The change from a labour to Tory government has not helped progress in recent years . The "green" community in the North have absolutely no affinity with Torys, who have been consistently antagonistic or apathetic towards them. Tory values and policies are in direct contrast to those of the 2 major nationalist parties. The Tories have Been in power for most of the last 50 years and it's no coincidence that the period of most progress in that time was under Labour's watch. It is obvious that the Torys can not be considered honest brokers in any negotiations, not least because they have a vested interest in looking after the DUP. Equally important is the role of the Irish government, with Fine Gael being vehement political opponents of Sinn Féin , never mind the fact that they originate from those who in the eyes of many "hung northern nationalists out to dry in 1921" . Ironically if you exclude supporters of the Torys and the DUP, and to a lesser extent UUP/Fine Gael, the vast majority of people on these two islands , would be strongly in favour of equality, and at the very least, close links between north and south. There is no doubt that we are heading towards some form of unity, and the challenge for nationalists is to try to convince the 5% of the island's population who voted unionist , that their strong British identity will be respected in any new institutions. At the same time politicians need to ensure that regardless of any short/medium/long term constitutional solutions, that we our focus should be on health/education/employment/poverty in the meantime .
No party in the north, nationalist or unionist have affinity with the Tories. Of course some are closer in political terms but there's no affinity. The DUP and the UUP are political parties in their own right equal to the right the Tories and Labour have.
Labour are no better or worse than the Tories when it comes to dealing with parties in the north. It's the Tory social position that nationalists rally against moreso than Labours. Labour have a bad history of treatment of northern nationalists too.
Labour took power at a time that things began to change in the north and the progress was made in the north. All credit for this is with the people of the north who seen a chance through a variety of leaders and began to demand things change. Labour were the ones that happened to be there. Add to that, we we lucky that they held power for long enough to see it through along with FF. If either of them had have lost an election around the time of the GFA we would be in a different place. A lot of things came together and lasted long enough to implement a change.
Would agree with a lot of that, but Both the DUP and UUP have espoused right wing policies for years. The poor showing of the Conservatives in 6 county elections, is not because the North has a strong left wing bias, but rather that most Northern Torys are assured that Tory politics will be predominant in the main unionist parties, and their desire to have their vote count in the sectarian headcount trumps their desire to vote for the Conservative party.
Quote from: 6th sam on March 04, 2017, 03:53:59 PM
Would agree with a lot of that, but Both the DUP and UUP have espoused right wing policies for years. The poor showing of the Conservatives in 6 county elections, is not because the North has a strong left wing bias, but rather that most Northern Torys are assured that Tory politics will be predominant in the main unionist parties, and their desire to have their vote count in the sectarian headcount trumps their desire to vote for the Conservative party.
I don't think it's a sectarian head count. Republicanism and Unionism are perfectly ok political positions to hold. Unionism and Republicanism and bonuses for many voters and usually not enough to win a vote. If they were there'd be no need for more than two parties.
I doubt if more than a few idiots voted SF because they don't like protestants and I doubt if anyone voted DUP because they don't like catholics. Voting for republicanism or unionism for the sake of republicanism or unionism is not sectarian.
You doubt if anyone voted for the DUP because they don't like Catholics?you're joking surely?
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 03:58:55 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on March 04, 2017, 03:53:59 PM
Would agree with a lot of that, but Both the DUP and UUP have espoused right wing policies for years. The poor showing of the Conservatives in 6 county elections, is not because the North has a strong left wing bias, but rather that most Northern Torys are assured that Tory politics will be predominant in the main unionist parties, and their desire to have their vote count in the sectarian headcount trumps their desire to vote for the Conservative party.
I don't think it's a sectarian head count. Republicanism and Unionism are perfectly ok political positions to hold. Unionism and Republicanism and bonuses for many voters and usually not enough to win a vote. If they were there'd be no need for more than two parties.
I doubt if more than a few idiots voted SF because they don't like protestants and I doubt if anyone voted DUP because they don't like catholics. Voting for republicanism or unionism for the sake of republicanism or unionism is not sectarian.
You really believe that a very tiny minority vote based on what part of the street the were born on?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2017, 04:10:38 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 03:58:55 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on March 04, 2017, 03:53:59 PM
Would agree with a lot of that, but Both the DUP and UUP have espoused right wing policies for years. The poor showing of the Conservatives in 6 county elections, is not because the North has a strong left wing bias, but rather that most Northern Torys are assured that Tory politics will be predominant in the main unionist parties, and their desire to have their vote count in the sectarian headcount trumps their desire to vote for the Conservative party.
I don't think it's a sectarian head count. Republicanism and Unionism are perfectly ok political positions to hold. Unionism and Republicanism and bonuses for many voters and usually not enough to win a vote. If they were there'd be no need for more than two parties.
I doubt if more than a few idiots voted SF because they don't like protestants and I doubt if anyone voted DUP because they don't like catholics. Voting for republicanism or unionism for the sake of republicanism or unionism is not sectarian.
You really believe that a very tiny minority vote based on what part of the street the were born on?
Even if they voted for their side of the street it is not sectarian.
I believe people vote for a certain party for many reason.
In this case there are the many social reasons but also the big national reason.
I think unionists decided to support a unionist party then decided which one for social or economic reasons. Also to oppose SF who are republican which in this case is the opposite to unionism. None of that is sectarian.
I do not believe for one second that anyone (or more than a few idiots) voted to oppose a religion they are not part of.
No party stood on a platform of sectarianism. A very common theme was Unionism and Republicanism. If anyone voted for these as their primary reason they are perfectly entitled to do so. They re not sectarian positions. I think many voted for a candidate who's religious views are in line with their own, be it on abortion or gay marriage etc. Again, not sectarian and a perfectly acceptable was to choose who to vote for.
As a catholic and a nationalist I know nobody who would decide to vote against protestantism. I afford that same respect in confidence that my protestant neighbours did not vote against me as I'm catholic. I give them more credit than that. Though, many pundits claim that it is the case by their references to sectarian head count.
Quote from: east down gael on March 04, 2017, 04:08:54 PM
You doubt if anyone voted for the DUP because they don't like Catholics?you're joking surely?
Honestly, ask yourself that question.
I remember the last time there was a weak Tory government reliant on unionist support, it was 1996 and we got the shit kicked out of us to let the orangemen parade down the Garvaghy Road.
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 04:26:13 PM
Quote from: east down gael on March 04, 2017, 04:08:54 PM
You doubt if anyone voted for the DUP because they don't like Catholics?you're joking surely?
Honestly, ask yourself that question.
What was the dup policy? We're not them?
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 04, 2017, 04:32:42 PM
What was the dup policy? We're not them?
Was it we're not them or we're not Catholic?
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 04:22:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2017, 04:10:38 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 03:58:55 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on March 04, 2017, 03:53:59 PM
Would agree with a lot of that, but Both the DUP and UUP have espoused right wing policies for years. The poor showing of the Conservatives in 6 county elections, is not because the North has a strong left wing bias, but rather that most Northern Torys are assured that Tory politics will be predominant in the main unionist parties, and their desire to have their vote count in the sectarian headcount trumps their desire to vote for the Conservative party.
I don't think it's a sectarian head count. Republicanism and Unionism are perfectly ok political positions to hold. Unionism and Republicanism and bonuses for many voters and usually not enough to win a vote. If they were there'd be no need for more than two parties.
I doubt if more than a few idiots voted SF because they don't like protestants and I doubt if anyone voted DUP because they don't like catholics. Voting for republicanism or unionism for the sake of republicanism or unionism is not sectarian.
You really believe that a very tiny minority vote based on what part of the street the were born on?
Even if they voted for their side of the street it is not sectarian.
I believe people vote for a certain party for many reason.
In this case there are the many social reasons but also the big national reason.
I think unionists decided to support a unionist party then decided which one for social or economic reasons. Also to oppose SF who are republican which in this case is the opposite to unionism. None of that is sectarian.
I do not believe for one second that anyone (or more than a few idiots) voted to oppose a religion they are not part of.
No party stood on a platform of sectarianism. A very common theme was Unionism and Republicanism. If anyone voted for these as their primary reason they are perfectly entitled to do so. They re not sectarian positions.
As a catholic and a nationalist I know nobody who would decide to vote against protestantism. I afford that same respect in confidence that my protestant neighbours did not vote against me as I'm catholic. I give them more credit than that. Though, many pundits claim that it is the case by their references to sectarian head count.
I know of no catholic nationalists that live in republican areas that voted unionists political parties...
If NI people did vote based on jobs economics health education welfare then we'd have a different leading party at Stormont... all I heard from this election was stop the nationalists from getting power and equality and corruption from the others. Not once did I hear about jobs education etc etc
I would say it is the same thing in their eyes.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2017, 04:34:25 PM
I know of no catholic nationalists that live in republican areas that voted unionists political parties...
If NI people did vote based on jobs economics health education welfare then we'd have a different leading party at Stormont... all I heard from this election was stop the nationalists from getting power and equality and corruption from the others. Not once did I hear about jobs education etc etc
Yes, catholics in the north tend to be Nationalist and/or Republican. Of course they didn't vote for Unionist parties when there are options between Nationalist and/or Republican parties.
That's not sectarian.
It's no different than left or right. I know no left wingers that vote FG as they are left wing. They vote for Lab/SF/ Socialist?PBP etc. Working class people tend to vote left and middle class tend to vote right. These are ligitimate political positions. Now, if working class people tended to be old and middle class people tended to be yong pundits would call it an agism vote even though it's not.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 04, 2017, 04:34:48 PM
I would say it is the same thing in their eyes.
That's were we disagree.
Unionist nowadays like FG & the Tories have always, have no fear of Catholicism. They have a fear of Republicanism.
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 04:40:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2017, 04:34:25 PM
I know of no catholic nationalists that live in republican areas that voted unionists political parties...
If NI people did vote based on jobs economics health education welfare then we'd have a different leading party at Stormont... all I heard from this election was stop the nationalists from getting power and equality and corruption from the others. Not once did I hear about jobs education etc etc
Yes, catholics in the north tend to be Nationalist and/or Republican. Of course they didn't vote for Unionist parties when there are options between Nationalist and/or Republican parties.
That's not sectarian.
It's no different than left or right. I know no left wingers that never vote FG as they are left wing. They vote for Lab/SF/ Socialist?PBP etc. Working class people tend to vote left and middle class tend to vote right. These are ligitimate political positions. Now, if working class people tended to be old and middle class people tended to be yong pundits would call it an agism vote even though it's not.
If it wasn't sectarian, right wing catholics and right wing Protestants would vote for the same party.
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 04:44:33 PM
If it wasn't sectarian, right wing catholics and right wing Protestants would vote for the same party.
Why would a right wing Catholic Unionist vote for a Republican Party?
Or, why would a right wing Protestant Republican vote for a Unionist party?
I accept that Republicanism and Unionism are the major factors in deciding whether to vote Republican or Unionist. I do not accept voting Republicanism as an attack on protestantism is a factor.
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 04:40:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2017, 04:34:25 PM
I know of no catholic nationalists that live in republican areas that voted unionists political parties...
If NI people did vote based on jobs economics health education welfare then we'd have a different leading party at Stormont... all I heard from this election was stop the nationalists from getting power and equality and corruption from the others. Not once did I hear about jobs education etc etc
Yes, catholics in the north tend to be Nationalist and/or Republican. Of course they didn't vote for Unionist parties when there are options between Nationalist and/or Republican parties.
That's not sectarian.
It's no different than left or right. I know no left wingers that vote FG as they are left wing. They vote for Lab/SF/ Socialist?PBP etc. Working class people tend to vote left and middle class tend to vote right. These are ligitimate political positions. Now, if working class people tended to be old and middle class people tended to be yong pundits would call it an agism vote even though it's not.
Before the shinners got into politics there was only one nationalist party and a few independents who were Catholics, even then they didn't vote unionists parties...
you can dress it up any way you want but voting is based on religious lines so in essence it becomes a sectarian head count... and I don't mean sectarian in a bad way just themons and usses
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2017, 04:50:48 PM
Before the shinners got into politics there was only one nationalist party and a few independents who were Catholics, even then they didn't vote unionists parties...
you can dress it up any way you want but voting is based on religious lines so in essence it becomes a sectarian head count... and I don't mean sectarian in a bad way just themons and usses
Yes, as most Catholics are Nationalist and as I'm at pains to get across, Nationalists do not vote Unionists as they are the opposites. Why is that difficult?
There is no good way to call something sectarian.
It seems to me that some people seem to lose the concept of political norms as soon as you through in an extra issue.
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 04:43:35 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 04, 2017, 04:34:48 PM
I would say it is the same thing in their eyes.
That's were we disagree.
Unionist nowadays like FG & the Tories have always, have no fear of Catholicism. They have a fear of Republicanism.
I would strongly disagree where the dup are concerned. They have a strong fear and that is what their rhetoric is based on. Nationalists and catholics would be synonymous in their eyes from anything i can see.
I can't remember the exact thing they said to sdlp the other year but i remember thinking how little these guys have moved on at all.
Not sure how you don't see this to be honest.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 04, 2017, 04:57:46 PM
I would strongly disagree where the dup are concerned. They have a strong fear and that is what their rhetoric is based on. Nationalists and catholics would be synonymous in their eyes from anything i can see.
I can't remember the exact thing they said to sdlp the other year but i remember thinking how little these guys have moved on at all.
Not sure how you don't see this to be honest.
I have more faith in Unionism and the electorate. I know how politicians can sometimes lower themselves to the lowest common denominator and the DUP do this often but I also believe that most unionists and protestants do not choose to vote on that and see through it as I do.
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 05:01:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 04, 2017, 04:57:46 PM
I would strongly disagree where the dup are concerned. They have a strong fear and that is what their rhetoric is based on. Nationalists and catholics would be synonymous in their eyes from anything i can see.
I can't remember the exact thing they said to sdlp the other year but i remember thinking how little these guys have moved on at all.
Not sure how you don't see this to be honest.
I have more faith in Unionism and the electorate. I know how politicians can sometimes lower themselves to the lowest common denominator and the DUP do this often but I also believe that most unionists and protestants do not choose to vote on that and see through it as I do.
How much Dutch Gold have you had today? You better get home before Mammy comes looking for you.
Does anyone know the number of MLAs needed for a party to be included in the D'Hondt allocation of the ministries?
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 05:01:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 04, 2017, 04:57:46 PM
I would strongly disagree where the dup are concerned. They have a strong fear and that is what their rhetoric is based on. Nationalists and catholics would be synonymous in their eyes from anything i can see.
I can't remember the exact thing they said to sdlp the other year but i remember thinking how little these guys have moved on at all.
Not sure how you don't see this to be honest.
I have more faith in Unionism and the electorate. I know how politicians can sometimes lower themselves to the lowest common denominator and the DUP do this often but I also believe that most unionists and protestants do not choose to vote on that and see through it as I do.
I have no doubt not all do but unfortunately quite a few would. If they didn't then why would they have to lower themselves to the lowest common denominator?
The way the dup have lowered themselves this last while the mind really boggles as to why any right thinking person would vote for them.
Not all unionism is the same brand as the dup so i don't equate what they stand for to what all unionists stand for.
Quote from: yellowcard on March 04, 2017, 12:20:35 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 04, 2017, 12:13:02 PM
It is no coincidence that SF's increase in votes came when they stood up to the Dup and collapsed Stormont. Most Sinn Fein voters don't believe that NI should exist let alone that republicans should take a part in ruling it. Their vote was shredding previously as their voters were sickened by them constantly being treated with contempt by unionists, accepting insults and arrogance whilst turing the other cheek. Only when they grew a pair and stood up to the arrogance did they reverse the trend of a shrinking nat/rep vote. IMO their role is to demonstrate that NI is ungovernable and is an unsustainable entity. Pity it took the Dup to, unwittingly in their arrogance, demonstrate it for them.
If they roll over post this election I forecast that they will kiss goodbye to the gains made now at any futture elections.
That's it in a nutshell.
+2
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 04, 2017, 05:08:52 PM
How much Dutch Gold have you had today? You better get home before Mammy comes looking for you.
Here was me enjoying a decent discussion.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 04, 2017, 05:16:16 PM
I have no doubt not all do but unfortunately quite a few would. If they didn't then why would they have to lower themselves to the lowest common denominator?
The way the dup have lowered themselves this last while the mind really boggles as to why any right thinking person would vote for them.
Not all unionism is the same brand as the dup so i don't equate what they stand for to what all unionists stand for.
My issue is with it being referred to a sectarian head count and in so casting a massive shadow over the good people of the north who deserve better.
I know that if I called someone sectarian they would be insulted and deny it genuinely. Yet, it gets bandied about without question when applied to voters (people) in the north. I have major issue with that.
Anyone who voted SF or DUP are being described as sectarian. There are many posters on here who probably did vote SF. I honestly believe tey did not do that with a sectarian motive. I think they did it for political motives. Nationalism, Republicanism, United Ireland, Corruption, Irish Language, LGBT stance etc. Not one of them will say they voted SF because SF are catholic. Not one will say they didn't vote UUP because UUP are protestant. I believe that and I also believe it of Unionist voters.
I didn't vote but I would have voted SF. And I'm sick of people like the UUP the SDLP and RTE claiming it would have been for sectarian reasons.
I would say that all the posters on here that voted SF, when they hear it being described as a sectarian vote, think - Well it is but it's not me they're talking about it's some voters somewhere else that voted SF. I say it is you they are talking about and they are wrong.
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 04, 2017, 08:40:59 AM
No one including Sinn Fein have made the good economic case for a United Ireland.
Au contraire:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/united-irish-economy-could-deliver-boost-of-36bn-388959.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/united-irish-economy-could-deliver-boost-of-36bn-388959.html)
If the north of Ireland was not split into Catholic and Protestant areas, with Catholic and Protestant schools, sports organisations, etc, then it wouldn't be called a sectarian headcount. But Catholics almost exclusively vote nationalist because they are brought up in an inter-meshed catholic/nationalist identity and way of life (and vice versa for protestants). The day that Catholic does not almost definitely mean nationalist, and likewise for protestant/unionist, will be the day you can say it's not a sectarian headcount.
I see some of your point but don't necessarily agree with all of it. Is corruption a political motive to vote for someone? I guess people with wood pellet boiler grants probably voted dup...
Sf want a united ireland and people want that. I get that. What the dup offer is a real quandry to be honest. I just don't see them as anything other than a sectarian party. I don't think this of the uup (once tom elliot went) or alliance who are to a degree unionists but i see it in the dup. They offer no positive manifesto on anything. Now some people vote for them to avoid a united ireland, some for poltical ideals and quite a lot in my view vote for them because they are not catholics. I honestly see them as doing nothing positive and think they have been feathering their own nests post agreement. Once the boat gets rocked the real them comes out.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 04, 2017, 05:56:23 PM
If the north of Ireland was not split into Catholic and Protestant areas, with Catholic and Protestant schools, sports organisations, etc, then it wouldn't be called a sectarian headcount. But Catholics almost exclusively vote nationalist because they are brought up in an inter-meshed catholic/nationalist identity and way of life (and vice versa for protestants). The day that Catholic does not almost definitely mean nationalist, and likewise for protestant/unionist, will be the day you can say it's not a sectarian headcount.
This is the definition of Sectarian
(a person) strongly supporting a particular religious group and not willing to accept other beliefs:Do you think the inability to accept Protestantism as a religious belief motivated people to vote SF in the recent election?
Ok vallankumous, I get where you're coming from. Sectarian is probably the incorrect word. Would tribal deecribe it better?
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 06:01:42 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 04, 2017, 05:56:23 PM
If the north of Ireland was not split into Catholic and Protestant areas, with Catholic and Protestant schools, sports organisations, etc, then it wouldn't be called a sectarian headcount. But Catholics almost exclusively vote nationalist because they are brought up in an inter-meshed catholic/nationalist identity and way of life (and vice versa for protestants). The day that Catholic does not almost definitely mean nationalist, and likewise for protestant/unionist, will be the day you can say it's not a sectarian headcount.
This is the definition of Sectarian
(a person) strongly supporting a particular religious group and not willing to accept other beliefs:
Do you think the inability to accept Protestantism as a religious belief motivated people to vote SF in the recent election?
did the inability to accept the Irish language as a badge of cultural identity act as a vote gatherer ?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 04, 2017, 05:54:54 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 04, 2017, 08:40:59 AM
No one including Sinn Fein have made the good economic case for a United Ireland.
Au contraire:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/united-irish-economy-could-deliver-boost-of-36bn-388959.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/united-irish-economy-could-deliver-boost-of-36bn-388959.html)
Thanks for that very informative link. I was referring to the politicians who are well able to roar and shout about the patriot dead at Bodenstown Kilcrumper and Beal na Blath each year. We are lacking leaders of vision who could make the economic case and also provide guidance to the establishment of a form of government which would help persuade the Unionists that there is a place for them in a united Ireland. Brexit will show the Unionists what regard they are held in by Westminster
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2017, 06:09:39 PM
Ok vallankumous, I get where you're coming from. Sectarian is probably the incorrect word. Would tribal deecribe it better?
Yes, much better word and probably accurate. Tribal is an acceptable political position too.
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 06:09:47 PM
did the inability to accept the Irish language as a badge of cultural identity act as a vote gatherer ?
Yes, I think so.
However, it is not sectarian. I disagree wholey with it but it is a ligit political position.
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 06:01:42 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 04, 2017, 05:56:23 PM
If the north of Ireland was not split into Catholic and Protestant areas, with Catholic and Protestant schools, sports organisations, etc, then it wouldn't be called a sectarian headcount. But Catholics almost exclusively vote nationalist because they are brought up in an inter-meshed catholic/nationalist identity and way of life (and vice versa for protestants). The day that Catholic does not almost definitely mean nationalist, and likewise for protestant/unionist, will be the day you can say it's not a sectarian headcount.
This is the definition of Sectarian
(a person) strongly supporting a particular religious group and not willing to accept other beliefs:
Do you think the inability to accept Protestantism as a religious belief motivated people to vote SF in the recent election?
I'd like to hope not, but I do think the inability to accept Irish culture, beliefs and nationhood - which in this statelet means Catholocism - was a driving factor in huge swathes of the DUP vote. In the north of Ireland, a religion is not simply which version of God you believe in or which prayer is said before you go to sleep.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 04, 2017, 06:19:50 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 06:01:42 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 04, 2017, 05:56:23 PM
If the north of Ireland was not split into Catholic and Protestant areas, with Catholic and Protestant schools, sports organisations, etc, then it wouldn't be called a sectarian headcount. But Catholics almost exclusively vote nationalist because they are brought up in an inter-meshed catholic/nationalist identity and way of life (and vice versa for protestants). The day that Catholic does not almost definitely mean nationalist, and likewise for protestant/unionist, will be the day you can say it's not a sectarian headcount.
This is the definition of Sectarian
(a person) strongly supporting a particular religious group and not willing to accept other beliefs:
Do you think the inability to accept Protestantism as a religious belief motivated people to vote SF in the recent election?
I'd like to hope not, but I do think the inability to accept Irish culture, beliefs and nationhood - which in this statelet means Catholocism - was a driving factor in huge swathes of the DUP vote. In the north of Ireland, a religion is not simply which version of God you believe in or which prayer is said before you go to sleep.
I can't believe how hard people will try to justify a false accusation of sectarianism against themselves.
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 06:14:26 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2017, 06:09:39 PM
Ok vallankumous, I get where you're coming from. Sectarian is probably the incorrect word. Would tribal deecribe it better?
Yes, much better word and probably accurate. Tribal is an acceptable political position too.
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 06:09:47 PM
did the inability to accept the Irish language as a badge of cultural identity act as a vote gatherer ?
Yes, I think so.
However, it is not sectarian. I disagree wholey with it but it is a ligit political position.
the correlation between religion and political party is well in excess of 90%
But if you don't think that is sectarian, carry on
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 06:22:05 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 04, 2017, 06:19:50 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 06:01:42 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 04, 2017, 05:56:23 PM
If the north of Ireland was not split into Catholic and Protestant areas, with Catholic and Protestant schools, sports organisations, etc, then it wouldn't be called a sectarian headcount. But Catholics almost exclusively vote nationalist because they are brought up in an inter-meshed catholic/nationalist identity and way of life (and vice versa for protestants). The day that Catholic does not almost definitely mean nationalist, and likewise for protestant/unionist, will be the day you can say it's not a sectarian headcount.
This is the definition of Sectarian
(a person) strongly supporting a particular religious group and not willing to accept other beliefs:
Do you think the inability to accept Protestantism as a religious belief motivated people to vote SF in the recent election?
I'd like to hope not, but I do think the inability to accept Irish culture, beliefs and nationhood - which in this statelet means Catholocism - was a driving factor in huge swathes of the DUP vote. In the north of Ireland, a religion is not simply which version of God you believe in or which prayer is said before you go to sleep.
I can't believe how hard people will try to justify a false accusation of sectarianism against themselves.
I didn't vote SF because I hate everything British. In my opinion, many DUP voters voted DUP because they hate everything Irish.
Also, this is what the Collin's English Dictionary defines sectarianism as:
Sectarian means resulting from the differences between different religions. .
They give other definitions such as:
.
1.
of, belonging or relating to, or characteristic of sects or sectaries
2.
adhering to a particular sect, faction, or doctrine
3.
narrow-minded, esp as a result of rigid adherence to a particular sect
Therefore there doesn't need to be religious intolerance for something to be classified as sectarian.
Quote from: hardstation on March 04, 2017, 06:22:01 PM
Regardless of Unionism opposing the Irish language on cultural grounds and the fact that they oppose most things Irish, their opposition of implementing an Irish language act on the basis of it being unnecessary and a waste of public funds is a legitimate position too. Not one that I necessarily agree with but I do see their point.
Afaics, there are different shades of unionist opposition to the language act. The UUP argument is different to the DUP. Cost is one issue of opposition.
Is the DUP opposition to the language act about logic and reasoning as you imply?
If some external fund were to guarantee the costs for the next 10 years, do you think the DUP´s position would change to some extent about the issue?
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 06:29:27 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on March 04, 2017, 06:14:26 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2017, 06:09:39 PM
Ok vallankumous, I get where you're coming from. Sectarian is probably the incorrect word. Would tribal deecribe it better?
Yes, much better word and probably accurate. Tribal is an acceptable political position too.
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 06:09:47 PM
did the inability to accept the Irish language as a badge of cultural identity act as a vote gatherer ?
Yes, I think so.
However, it is not sectarian. I disagree wholey with it but it is a ligit political position.
the correlation between religion and political party is well in excess of 90%
But if you don't think that is sectarian, carry on
I think its tribal. Credit Farrendeelin
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 04, 2017, 06:33:13 PM
I didn't vote SF because I hate everything British. In my opinion, many DUP voters voted DUP because they hate everything Irish.
Also, this is what the Collin's English Dictionary defines sectarianism as: Sectarian means resulting from the differences between different religions. .
They give other definitions such as:
.
1.
of, belonging or relating to, or characteristic of sects or sectaries
2.
adhering to a particular sect, faction, or doctrine
3.
narrow-minded, esp as a result of rigid adherence to a particular sect
Therefore there doesn't need to be religious intolerance for something to be classified as sectarian.
Yes it does mean you are opposed to all other faith. If it didn't then every Person of Faith would be sectarian. The Pope, the Dali Lama, Ghandi all could be included in your definition.
Ok you didn't vote Sf because you hate everything British. That is not my argument.
My argument is, did you vote SF because you hate everything protestant? If you did then fair enough, you are sectarian.
Are you ok with your decision on who to vote got is being described as a vote by someone who hates everything protestant?
Hard station is talking sense and as soon as we all lead like this instead of letting lazy journalists and greedy politicians lead us we will get logic in our politics.
It's not my definition, it's the definition of the Collins English Dictionary. They are the top four definitions given online by Collins.
I don't hate everything Protestant, I don't really care what religion someone is if they are a decent person. They can describe it whatever way they want, I know my reasons for voting SF and if that's described as sectarian then so be it. It's being described as a sectarian head count rather than sectarian voting - because it's a pretty accurate representation of the proportion of Catholics to Protestants.
I can see your point on this but I'm afraid we're not going to agree on it.
Tribal is the same as sectarian. When the tribes are religious . Rangers v Celtic is sectarian.
Anyway what will nationalists do when they get a political majority? How about a few statues in places like Stormont?
I wonder what proportion of the DUP underperformance was RHI and what was Brexit related.
Quote from: T Fearon on March 04, 2017, 02:41:40 PM
Read this carefully.Britain does not want or regard Northern Unionists as their people.Dublin does not want or regard Northern nationalists as their people.Ulster unionism and Northern nationalism are redundant philosophies therefore
read this carefully
we know that dublin would not regard the northen nationlists as their people but the rest of the country would vote for a UI
Dublin always had that tinge of unionism left from 1921
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2017, 07:11:49 PM
Tribal is the same as sectarian. When the tribes are religious . Rangers v Celtic is sectarian.
I was really offended ever time I heard the result called sectarian. I know I'm not sectarian and have so much more faith in the people of the north. Now it seems I'm the only one.
Rather than refute the charge of sectarianism the sub conscious in the northern mind set will try to dilute the word. Seems like years of propaganda has become the reality.
Yesterday's vote was progress but 225k people still voted for the dup. Edwin poots got in. Edwin poots. So there has been a lot of progress but have a way to go.
Vallankamous you've spent three (I didn't count em) pages splitting hairs. Everybody accepts you didn't vote on sectarian lines, can we please leave it at that.
Tribal voting will continue to produce stalemate and non delivery especially for the deprived.A united ireland would not be endorsed at the ballot box,North and South anytime soon
Quote from: T Fearon on March 04, 2017, 07:39:50 PM
Tribal voting will continue to produce stalemate and non delivery especially for the deprived.A united ireland would not be endorsed at the ballot box,North and South anytime soon
Various surveys suggest otherwise !
Quote from: T Fearon on March 04, 2017, 07:39:50 PM
Tribal voting will continue to produce stalemate and non delivery especially for the deprived.A united ireland would not be endorsed at the ballot box,North and South anytime soon
very true but it looks a hell of lot more viable than it did this time last week
a long way to go all the same
With a border poll you would get *every* unionist voting to remain in the U.K. Don't think it would be like that on the nationalist side of the house. Anyway it's a long way down the road & nobody knows what it would look like. There would be no chance of success at the minute and it would be damaging to seek one in the short term, knowing it would be almost certainly doomed to defeat.
In any event it shouldn't be the focus now, but getting some sort of functioning government in place
The focus now should be sorting this place out. It is a mess. A united ireland could never happen in current state.
Lads and lassies, I can't be bothered looking back the 20 pages since yesterday and I'm too tired to look it up anywhere
But has anyone the total first preferences for the parties ?
Quote from: Rossfan on March 04, 2017, 09:06:14 PM
Lads and lassies, I can't be bothered looking back the 20 pages since yesterday and I'm too tired to look it up anywhere
But has anyone the total first preferences for the parties ?
Democratic Unionist Party 225,413 28.1%
Sinn Féin 224,245 27.9%
SDLP 95,958 11.9%
Ulster Unionist Party 103,314 12.9%
Alliance Party 72,717 9.1%
Green Party 18,527 2.3%
Traditional Unionist Voice 20,523 2.6%
Independents 14,407 1.8%
People Before Profit Alliance 14,100 1.8%
Progressive Unionist Party of NI 5,590 0.7%
Conservatives 2,399 0.3%
Others 6,122 0.8%
Turnout 64.8%
Electorate: 1,254,709
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 04, 2017, 09:18:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 04, 2017, 09:06:14 PM
Lads and lassies, I can't be bothered looking back the 20 pages since yesterday and I'm too tired to look it up anywhere
But has anyone the total first preferences for the parties ?
Democratic Unionist Party 225,413 28.1%
Sinn Féin 224,245 27.9%
SDLP 95,958 11.9%
Ulster Unionist Party 103,314 12.9%
Alliance Party 72,717 9.1%
Green Party 18,527 2.3%
Traditional Unionist Voice 20,523 2.6%
Independents 14,407 1.8%
People Before Profit Alliance 14,100 1.8%
Progressive Unionist Party of NI 5,590 0.7%
Conservatives 2,399 0.3%
Others 6,122 0.8%
Turnout 64.8%
Electorate: 1,254,709
The move by the Conservative party to contest elections in NI isn't going too well.
Quote from: Main Street on March 04, 2017, 09:46:02 PM
The move by the Conservative party to contest elections in NI isn't going too well.
Time for Lord Such to offer them an electoral pact.
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 04, 2017, 01:50:18 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 04, 2017, 11:19:00 AM
You have to look at equivalences to see how all fared:
DUP 38 (2016) equals 32 (2017) achieved 28 down by 12.5%
SF 28 (2016) equals 23 (2017) achieved 27 up by 17.4%
UUP 16 (2016) equals 13 (2017) achieved 10 down by 23.1%
SDLP 12 (2016) equals 10 (2017) achieved 12 up by 20%
Alliance 8 (2016) equals 7 (2017) achieved 8 up by 14.3%
If the turnout goes back down at the next election, DUP will be the big winners. If foster is gone by then, will the extra 10% that came out this time stay at home?
The change in the balance of power this time is symbolic but I wouldn't be certain that it's permanent. It would be interesting to see the age profile of DUP voters.
There is a calculation on Slugger that there are 4000 more voters from a nationalist background each year. Turnout might give a temporary reboost to the DUP but the writing is on the wall, these people might not be out and out nationalists but their vote is unlikely to end up with the DUP. In addition, Brexit may mean thousands of EU citizens taking out British citizenship and so getting a vote, Lukas or Agnieska might produce a British passport at the poll for ID, but probably won't vote for the DUP either and the Pro EU parties will target these voters.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 04, 2017, 08:17:51 PM
The focus now should be sorting this place out. It is a mess. A united ireland could never happen in current state.
And people are happy just to work the GFA for a generation, the only danger is that the British will overturn the whole thing with Brexit.
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 04, 2017, 07:39:37 PM
Vallankamous you've spent three (I didn't count em) pages splitting hairs. Everybody accepts you didn't vote on sectarian lines, can we please leave it at that.
His doctor encourages him to engage on these websites as it prevents him from his usual habit of eating the feathers in his pillow
Democratic Unionist Party 225,413 28.1%
Sinn Féin 224,245 27.9%
SDLP 95,958 11.9%
Ulster Unionist Party 103,314 12.9%
Alliance Party 72,717 9.1%
Green Party 18,527 2.3%
Traditional Unionist Voice 20,523 2.6%
Independents 14,407 1.8%
People Before Profit Alliance 14,100 1.8%
Progressive Unionist Party of NI 5,590 0.7%
Conservatives 2,399 0.3%
Others 6,122 0.8%
Turnout 64.8%
Electorate: 1,254,709
Nationalist = 224,245 + 95,958 +14,100 = 334,303 26.6% of electorate
Unionist =225,413 + 103,314 + 20,523 + 5,590 + 2,399 + 4,918 = 365,157 29.1% of electorate
Others = 72,717 + 18,527 + 14,407 - 4918 + 6,122 = 106,855 8.4% of electorate
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 04, 2017, 11:16:49 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 04, 2017, 07:39:37 PM
Vallankamous you've spent three (I didn't count em) pages splitting hairs. Everybody accepts you didn't vote on sectarian lines, can we please leave it at that.
His doctor encourages him to engage on these websites as it prevents him from his usual habit of eating the feathers in his pillow
He has admitted that he couldn't be bothered to drag his sorry ass to the polling booth and make his preference, so his views are irrelevant. They weren't worth his time to go to the poll even to register a protest of any kind. Mightn't even have his name on the electoral register.
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 04, 2017, 11:21:33 PM
Democratic Unionist Party 225,413 28.1%
Sinn Féin 224,245 27.9%
SDLP 95,958 11.9%
Ulster Unionist Party 103,314 12.9%
Alliance Party 72,717 9.1%
Green Party 18,527 2.3%
Traditional Unionist Voice 20,523 2.6%
Independents 14,407 1.8%
People Before Profit Alliance 14,100 1.8%
Progressive Unionist Party of NI 5,590 0.7%
Conservatives 2,399 0.3%
Others 6,122 0.8%
Turnout 64.8%
Electorate: 1,254,709
Nationalist = 224,245 + 95,958 +14,100 = 334,303 26.6% of electorate
Unionist =225,413 + 103,314 + 20,523 + 5,590 + 2,399 + 4,918 = 365,157 29.1% of electorate
Others = 72,717 + 18,527 + 14,407 - 4918 + 6,122 = 106,855 8.4% of electorate
Some independents and smaller parties like workers party can be lumped into either nationalist or unionist adding another percent to both tribes
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 05, 2017, 12:20:35 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 04, 2017, 11:21:33 PM
Democratic Unionist Party 225,413 28.1%
Sinn Féin 224,245 27.9%
SDLP 95,958 11.9%
Ulster Unionist Party 103,314 12.9%
Alliance Party 72,717 9.1%
Green Party 18,527 2.3%
Traditional Unionist Voice 20,523 2.6%
Independents 14,407 1.8%
People Before Profit Alliance 14,100 1.8%
Progressive Unionist Party of NI 5,590 0.7%
Conservatives 2,399 0.3%
Others 6,122 0.8%
Turnout 64.8%
Electorate: 1,254,709
Nationalist = 224,245 + 95,958 +14,100 = 334,303 26.6% of electorate
Unionist =225,413 + 103,314 + 20,523 + 5,590 + 2,399 + 4,918 = 365,157 29.1% of electorate
Others = 72,717 + 18,527 + 14,407 - 4918 + 6,122 = 106,855 8.4% of electorate
Some independents and smaller parties like workers party can be lumped into either nationalist or unionist adding another percent to both tribes
Are you talking about prods and taigs again??
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2017, 12:30:37 AM
Are you talking about prods and taigs again??
I think he means imperialists and democrats.
SF 1,2,3. I posted that on Thursday night as soon as I returned from the Polling Station. Delighted that in my constituency, Newry and Armagh, SF returned 3 MLAs
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 05, 2017, 01:30:33 AM
SF 1,2,3. I posted that on Thursday night as soon as I returned from the Polling Station. Delighted that in my constituency, Newry and Armagh, SF returned 3 MLAs
So you're happy with the current setup... never heard sf talk about the things I've mentioned, normal politics
I think you need to look at the achievements of their Ministers over the years to realise just what has been done in terms of normal politics.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 05, 2017, 10:52:17 AM
I think you need to look at the achievements of their Ministers over the years to realise just what has been done in terms of normal politics.
Like engaging in discriminatory employment practices?
http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-minister-found-guilty-of-religious-discrimination-495007-Jun2012/ (http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-minister-found-guilty-of-religious-discrimination-495007-Jun2012/)
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 05, 2017, 10:52:17 AM
I think you need to look at the achievements of their Ministers over the years to realise just what has been done in terms of normal politics.
That would be a very short list.
In West Tyrone, SF minister removed the acute hospital and moved it to Enniskillen where it withers away due to lack of use and failure to staff, failure to deliver the A5 extending from Ballygawley to Omagh and moving it to Derry. Both vote buying exercises. Unbelievable how they continue to receive vote in this area despite these massive failures which affect everyone on a day and daily basis. Shows that there is no normal politics.
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 04, 2017, 11:16:49 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 04, 2017, 07:39:37 PM
Vallankamous you've spent three (I didn't count em) pages splitting hairs. Everybody accepts you didn't vote on sectarian lines, can we please leave it at that.
His doctor encourages him to engage on these websites as it prevents him from his usual habit of eating the feathers in his pillow
That's incorrect
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 05, 2017, 10:52:17 AM
I think you need to look at the achievements of their Ministers over the years to realise just what has been done in terms of normal politics.
Nothing the place is a mess but hey as long as you're happy with it you'll continue with SF 123
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/sam-mcbride-a-catastrophe-for-unionism-a-triumph-for-renewed-nationalism-1-7850565
Newsletter Editorial yesterday.
2017 Less than one year ago this newspaper congratulated Arlene Foster on a stunning election win. We praised the decisive result she had achieved for unionism and heralded her leadership and the promise it showed for Northern Ireland. There is no question that as first minister in an absurd mandatory coalition system, alongside a party as unreliable as Sinn Fein, Mrs Foster was always in a difficult position. Since 1998 unionists have been told by London and Dublin that Sinn Fein must, no matter what it does, be in power, or else devolution is suspended for everyone. There is always the threat of joint authority if unionists do not play ball but never any threat of specific sanction against the IRA's political wing. But despite that context, it cannot be pretended today that this electoral outcome is anything other than a bad one for unionism. A 10-seat DUP lead over Sinn Fein has turned into a vanishingly small one of a single seat. A 36,000 DUP vote lead has turned into an 1,100 one. The lower seat margin is slightly mitigated by the fact that the number of seats has gone down, and so any majority in this parliament is proportionately larger than a margin of the same number of seats would have been in the last assembly. But the fact the UUP has had a poor election, when added to the DUP relative decline, raises serious questions about the future of unionism and how unionists should move ahead. Mike Nesbitt tried to do something new in politics but was constrained by the fact that he never seemed entirely to understand unionism and was not in a strong position to bring people with him in his comment that he would transfer to the SDLP. He deserves admiration but his comment was ill thought out and has merely contributed to some DUP losses and so he is right to resign. Mrs Foster must not now rush into any arrangement to prop up devolution. Direct rule under this present UK government is far preferable to hasty concessions to Sinn Fein. She is now the leader of unionism and has much to do – to mend fences within unionism, to present an attractive face to the world for pro-Union politics, and to help clear up the mess caused by RHI.
Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/foster-has-hard-work-ahead-as-she-returns-at-the-helm-of-ni-1-7850520
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 05, 2017, 01:57:15 PM
Newsletter Editorial yesterday.
2017 Less than one year ago this newspaper congratulated Arlene Foster on a stunning election win. We praised the decisive result she had achieved for unionism and heralded her leadership and the promise it showed for Northern Ireland. There is no question that as first minister in an absurd mandatory coalition system, alongside a party as unreliable as Sinn Fein, Mrs Foster was always in a difficult position. Since 1998 unionists have been told by London and Dublin that Sinn Fein must, no matter what it does, be in power, or else devolution is suspended for everyone. There is always the threat of joint authority if unionists do not play ball but never any threat of specific sanction against the IRA's political wing. But despite that context, it cannot be pretended today that this electoral outcome is anything other than a bad one for unionism. A 10-seat DUP lead over Sinn Fein has turned into a vanishingly small one of a single seat. A 36,000 DUP vote lead has turned into an 1,100 one. The lower seat margin is slightly mitigated by the fact that the number of seats has gone down, and so any majority in this parliament is proportionately larger than a margin of the same number of seats would have been in the last assembly. But the fact the UUP has had a poor election, when added to the DUP relative decline, raises serious questions about the future of unionism and how unionists should move ahead. Mike Nesbitt tried to do something new in politics but was constrained by the fact that he never seemed entirely to understand unionism and was not in a strong position to bring people with him in his comment that he would transfer to the SDLP. He deserves admiration but his comment was ill thought out and has merely contributed to some DUP losses and so he is right to resign. Mrs Foster must not now rush into any arrangement to prop up devolution. Direct rule under this present UK government is far preferable to hasty concessions to Sinn Fein. She is now the leader of unionism and has much to do – to mend fences within unionism, to present an attractive face to the world for pro-Union politics, and to help clear up the mess caused by RHI.
Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/foster-has-hard-work-ahead-as-she-returns-at-the-helm-of-ni-1-7850520
If the editor had have said this nonsense before the election he'd have saved the DUP and Foster
The Newsletter did a lot to expose RHI, Foster would have told them to f*** off if they offered advice. All these things are bleeding obvious.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2017, 09:42:24 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 05, 2017, 01:30:33 AM
SF 1,2,3. I posted that on Thursday night as soon as I returned from the Polling Station. Delighted that in my constituency, Newry and Armagh, SF returned 3 MLAs
So you're happy with the current setup... never heard sf talk about the things I've mentioned, normal politics
Dougal performed his civic duty, ignoring the taunts from the losers that he's a moronic part of the sectarian vote, inextricably drawn to the polling station to perform the tribal ritual.
We can ask no more from Dougal.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 05, 2017, 10:52:17 AM
I think you need to look at the achievements of their Ministers over the years to realise just what has been done in terms of normal politics.
What have these glorified county councillors exactly achieved?
Quote from: Main Street on March 05, 2017, 03:04:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2017, 09:42:24 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 05, 2017, 01:30:33 AM
SF 1,2,3. I posted that on Thursday night as soon as I returned from the Polling Station. Delighted that in my constituency, Newry and Armagh, SF returned 3 MLAs
So you're happy with the current setup... never heard sf talk about the things I've mentioned, normal politics
Dougal performed his civic duty, ignoring the taunts from the losers that he's a moronic part of the sectarian vote, inextricably drawn to the polling station to perform the tribal ritual.
We can ask no more from Dougal.
Imagine voting for a party that best fits your political beliefs ::)
Edwin Poots drives home from the election count and encounters a bright white light which throws him out of his car and into the road stunned:
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/parties-must-overcome-differences-and-make-northern-ireland-work-poots-1-7851237 (http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/parties-must-overcome-differences-and-make-northern-ireland-work-poots-1-7851237)
The infighting has already begun after the pain of defeat:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/emma-little-pengelly-blames-stalford-1-leaflet-distribution-and-voter-misinformation-for-south-belfast-election-failure-35503504.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/emma-little-pengelly-blames-stalford-1-leaflet-distribution-and-voter-misinformation-for-south-belfast-election-failure-35503504.html)
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 05, 2017, 06:55:18 PM
Edwin Poots drives home from the election count and encounters a bright white light which throws him out of his car and into the road stunned:
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/parties-must-overcome-differences-and-make-northern-ireland-work-poots-1-7851237 (http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/parties-must-overcome-differences-and-make-northern-ireland-work-poots-1-7851237)
I don't think he fell out of his car
I think he got a call from his PR advisor and he told him that venomous s..t he was spouting out on Friday night is exactly what have got the DUP in to this position
I read the link he said '" the union is not going away anytime soon"
That's a far cry from the "never never never"
of bygone days
Boy are times changing
It's funny the way they say it's unfortunate that nationalists voted in high numbers. Thought that is what democracy was about?
Be more unfortunate if the same numbers don't come out at the next election!!
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 05, 2017, 07:22:19 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 05, 2017, 06:55:18 PM
Edwin Poots drives home from the election count and encounters a bright white light which throws him out of his car and into the road stunned:
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/parties-must-overcome-differences-and-make-northern-ireland-work-poots-1-7851237 (http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/parties-must-overcome-differences-and-make-northern-ireland-work-poots-1-7851237)
I don't think he fell out of his car
I think he got a call from his PR advisor and he told him that venomous s..t he was spouting out on Friday night is exactly what have got the DUP in to this position
I read the link he said '" the union is not going away anytime soon"
That's a far cry from the "never never never"
of bygone days
Boy are times changing
I wouldn't be surprised if someone in Westminster rang Arlene and told her and her party to get off their high horse. London has enough crap to deal with without adding Direct Rule just cos Unionists don't like the demographics.
Dont Know why any True Republican is so happy distributing British rule...really beats me...
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2017, 08:14:06 PM
Be more unfortunate if the same numbers don't come out at the next election!!
Perhaps they won't, as they did not in 2016, but they can just come out in the election after that.
The turnout is still below levels 15 years ago, there are more people out there (on both sides).
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GWC0iApWlWc/WLvr3dFsSsI/AAAAAAAAAj0/CkOU9mc8OB4yUFQqF7TXnwQTim3OaBVXwCEw/s400/GetFileAttachment-4.png)
What happened in 1989?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2017, 08:36:28 PM
What happened in 1989?
Might actually be 1986 and the impact of the Anglo Irish Agreement?
Quote from: Rois on March 05, 2017, 08:38:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2017, 08:36:28 PM
What happened in 1989?
Might actually be 1986 and the impact of the Anglo Irish Agreement?
I thought all unionists voted then
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2017, 08:40:16 PM
Quote from: Rois on March 05, 2017, 08:38:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2017, 08:36:28 PM
What happened in 1989?
Might actually be 1986 and the impact of the Anglo Irish Agreement?
I thought all unionists voted then
Yeah - giving unionist spike? Doesn't mean less nationalists turned out, means more unionists did.
Unionists underestimated how toxic Arlene was
The attack on the irish language really hit a nerve
Most nationalists like to hold on to their Irish identity
We all have a sort of pride in the language
That on the back of RHI, Nama,
The reality is I think that they have realised that they poked the bear and it bit back
The shinners need to keep the populace mobilised
Quote from: naka on March 05, 2017, 08:50:36 PM
Unionists underestimated how toxic Arlene was
The attack on the irish language really hit a nerve
Most nationalists like to hold on to their Irish identity
We all have a sort of pride in the language
That on the back of RHI, Nama,
The reality is I think that they have realised that they poked the bear and it bit back
The shinners need to keep the populace mobilised
They spout such crap to their base about fighting SF that they forgot that they were in government with them, and that SF could collapse the whole thing at any time. And in the chart about the 2016 election was an outlier, which lead to hubris. It is a bit like Armagh expecting to win by 30 points in their next game.
Brexit will likely keep the population mobilised for a while. Then it will either collapse, become a Brexit in name only, or a real problem and in the latter case things could heat up significantly.
Quote from: Rois on March 05, 2017, 08:38:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2017, 08:36:28 PM
What happened in 1989?
Might actually be 1986 and the impact of the Anglo Irish Agreement?
the late 80s were very violent
https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/jun/10/deaths-in-northern-ireland-conflict-data
Presumably a lot of nationalists withdrew from the political side
Quote from: naka on March 05, 2017, 08:50:36 PM
Unionists underestimated how toxic Arlene was
The attack on the irish language really hit a nerve
Most nationalists like to hold on to their Irish identity
We all have a sort of pride in the language
That on the back of RHI, Nama,
The reality is I think that they have realised that they poked the bear and it bit back
The shinners need to keep the populace mobilised
The Irish language act is not a proper issue for most Nationalists I would say... for me and others like me who wouldn't usually vote SF it was the RHI scandal and the arrogance that surrounded it as well as the feed the crocodile comment.
Arlene Foster can f**k right off and the sooner she and dinosaurs like her/Nelson/Edwin/Flegory/Jeffrey f**k off the better off we'll all be!!
which constituency is next in line to fall out of unionist hands ? The trend seems to be westward
Quote from: armaghniac on March 05, 2017, 08:32:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2017, 08:14:06 PM
Be more unfortunate if the same numbers don't come out at the next election!!
Perhaps they won't, as they did not in 2016, but they can just come out in the election after that.
The turnout is still below levels 15 years ago, there are more people out there (on both sides).
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GWC0iApWlWc/WLvr3dFsSsI/AAAAAAAAAj0/CkOU9mc8OB4yUFQqF7TXnwQTim3OaBVXwCEw/s400/GetFileAttachment-4.png)
Is it me or does that chart look like a crocodile or an alligator.
It was a good election for nationalism but another seat here or there Sinn Fein could have been nominating for first minister that's how close it is,but obviously for the first time in years nationalists voters decided to vote, brexit,rhi,dup arrogance,foster,Irish Lang,invoked a response.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2017, 08:36:28 PM
What happened in 1989?
Everyone was depressed after Antrim didn't win the all
Ireland final and the unionist where delighted especially the north Antrim ones
Or the election authority act where nationalist parties had to sign a declaration denouncing terrorism
Shinners refused
Quote from: Rois on March 05, 2017, 08:41:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2017, 08:40:16 PM
Quote from: Rois on March 05, 2017, 08:38:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2017, 08:36:28 PM
What happened in 1989?
Might actually be 1986 and the impact of the Anglo Irish Agreement?
I thought all unionists voted then
Yeah - giving unionist spike? Doesn't mean less nationalists turned out, means more unionists did.
It's clear that it means more unionists voted and fewer nationalists voted, at that time.
Whatever it was about, fenians weren't that interested.
Quote from: seafoid on March 05, 2017, 09:23:57 PM
which constituency is next in line to fall out of unionist hands ? The trend seems to be westward
South Down ;)
Quote from: The Raven on March 05, 2017, 10:46:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 05, 2017, 09:23:57 PM
which constituency is next in line to fall out of unionist hands ? The trend seems to be westward
South Down ;)
south down???? Think sinn fein should be targeting south down at next Westminster election. There is definitely the votes there for a strong candidate to unseat margaret ritchie.
Quote from: SHEEDY on March 05, 2017, 10:51:24 PM
Quote from: The Raven on March 05, 2017, 10:46:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 05, 2017, 09:23:57 PM
which constituency is next in line to fall out of unionist hands ? The trend seems to be westward
South Down ;)
south down???? Think sinn fein should be targeting south down at next Westminster election. There is definitely the votes there for a strong candidate to unseat margaret ritchie.
Had a wee look at election results over the past while and it seems like unionists in South Down 'lend' the SDLP upwards of 5000 votes in Westminster elections. Knew that was a factor but surprised at the scale of it. Another huge turnout could see the Shinners taking the seat, though.
Possibly inspired by the spectacle of the 2 punch drunk fighters (Haye and Bellew) kissing and cuddling at the end of a fight, after weeks of trash talking, we have Foster ("ready to lead her party in talks with Sinn Fein") and O'Neill ("an agreement won't be easy but is achievable") both prepared to parley, immediately.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-assembly-election/northern-ireland-election-results-im-not-quitting-vows-arlene-foster-35495537.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-assembly-election/northern-ireland-election-results-im-not-quitting-vows-arlene-foster-35495537.html)
Anything to ensure the gravy train runs on time.
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 05, 2017, 01:57:15 PM
Newsletter Editorial yesterday.
2017 Less than one year ago this newspaper congratulated Arlene Foster on a stunning election win. We praised the decisive result she had achieved for unionism and heralded her leadership and the promise it showed for Northern Ireland. There is no question that as first minister in an absurd mandatory coalition system, alongside a party as unreliable as Sinn Fein, Mrs Foster was always in a difficult position. Since 1998 unionists have been told by London and Dublin that Sinn Fein must, no matter what it does, be in power, or else devolution is suspended for everyone. There is always the threat of joint authority if unionists do not play ball but never any threat of specific sanction against the IRA's political wing. But despite that context, it cannot be pretended today that this electoral outcome is anything other than a bad one for unionism. A 10-seat DUP lead over Sinn Fein has turned into a vanishingly small one of a single seat. A 36,000 DUP vote lead has turned into an 1,100 one. The lower seat margin is slightly mitigated by the fact that the number of seats has gone down, and so any majority in this parliament is proportionately larger than a margin of the same number of seats would have been in the last assembly. But the fact the UUP has had a poor election, when added to the DUP relative decline, raises serious questions about the future of unionism and how unionists should move ahead. Mike Nesbitt tried to do something new in politics but was constrained by the fact that he never seemed entirely to understand unionism and was not in a strong position to bring people with him in his comment that he would transfer to the SDLP. He deserves admiration but his comment was ill thought out and has merely contributed to some DUP losses and so he is right to resign. Mrs Foster must not now rush into any arrangement to prop up devolution. Direct rule under this present UK government is far preferable to hasty concessions to Sinn Fein. She is now the leader of unionism and has much to do – to mend fences within unionism, to present an attractive face to the world for pro-Union politics, and to help clear up the mess caused by RHI.
Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/foster-has-hard-work-ahead-as-she-returns-at-the-helm-of-ni-1-7850520
"Mandatory coalition" is better known as "power sharing." It's what the people voted for in the Good Friday Agreement. Get over it, you sniveling, whining little orange rag.
Nice of you to make at least some reference to RHI, even if you left it until a throwaway remark at the end.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 06, 2017, 04:40:59 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 05, 2017, 01:57:15 PM
Newsletter Editorial yesterday.
2017 Less than one year ago this newspaper congratulated Arlene Foster on a stunning election win. We praised the decisive result she had achieved for unionism and heralded her leadership and the promise it showed for Northern Ireland. There is no question that as first minister in an absurd mandatory coalition system, alongside a party as unreliable as Sinn Fein, Mrs Foster was always in a difficult position. Since 1998 unionists have been told by London and Dublin that Sinn Fein must, no matter what it does, be in power, or else devolution is suspended for everyone. There is always the threat of joint authority if unionists do not play ball but never any threat of specific sanction against the IRA's political wing. But despite that context, it cannot be pretended today that this electoral outcome is anything other than a bad one for unionism. A 10-seat DUP lead over Sinn Fein has turned into a vanishingly small one of a single seat. A 36,000 DUP vote lead has turned into an 1,100 one. The lower seat margin is slightly mitigated by the fact that the number of seats has gone down, and so any majority in this parliament is proportionately larger than a margin of the same number of seats would have been in the last assembly. But the fact the UUP has had a poor election, when added to the DUP relative decline, raises serious questions about the future of unionism and how unionists should move ahead. Mike Nesbitt tried to do something new in politics but was constrained by the fact that he never seemed entirely to understand unionism and was not in a strong position to bring people with him in his comment that he would transfer to the SDLP. He deserves admiration but his comment was ill thought out and has merely contributed to some DUP losses and so he is right to resign. Mrs Foster must not now rush into any arrangement to prop up devolution. Direct rule under this present UK government is far preferable to hasty concessions to Sinn Fein. She is now the leader of unionism and has much to do – to mend fences within unionism, to present an attractive face to the world for pro-Union politics, and to help clear up the mess caused by RHI.
Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/foster-has-hard-work-ahead-as-she-returns-at-the-helm-of-ni-1-7850520
"Mandatory coalition" is better known as "power sharing." It's what the people voted for in the Good Friday Agreement. Get over it, you sniveling, whining little orange rag.
Nice of you to make at least some reference to RHI, even if you left it until a throwaway remark at the end.
Em Eamonn it was Sam McBride of the Newsletter that did most of the digging into RHI, after the Spotlight programme. So to say they ignored it is bizarre
That editorial is ludicrous, safe to say Sam didn't write it (not that he doesn't write plenty of crap himself at times).
The ludicrousity [new word alert] of that editorial in referring to SF as the IRA's political wing and the general tone and interpretation of the situation would seem to indicate that there haven't been many lessons learned by unionism in the last 40 years never mind the last week.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 06, 2017, 08:37:34 AM
That editorial is ludicrous, safe to say Sam didn't write it (not that he doesn't write plenty of crap himself at times).
Sam is the political editor and the paper's editorial is written by Alistair Bushe or Ben Lowry.
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 06, 2017, 09:36:11 AM
The ludicrousity [new word alert] of that editorial in referring to SF as the IRA's political wing and the general tone and interpretation of the situation would seem to indicate that there haven't been many lessons learned by unionism in the last 40 years never mind the last week.
Unionism has yet to accept its part in the 30 plus years of murder and mayhem that their misrule brought to the six counties hence the need for "an absurd mandatory coalition system" which Arlene and Co did their best to ride roughshod over the last few years.
Quote from: johnneycool on March 06, 2017, 10:40:05 AM
Unionism has yet to accept its part in the 30 plus years of murder and mayhem that their misrule brought to the six counties hence the need for "an absurd mandatory coalition system" which Arlene and Co did their best to ride roughshod over the last few years.
Exactly. The "absurd mandatory coalition system" now puts the DUP back in whereas without it there might be an anti Brexit SF-SDLP-Alliance-Green coalition without any unionists at all. It seems that unionists never learn, and that if any individuals among them do learn that they are pushed out.
Fantastic election .. topped off by wee Nasty Nelson getting his marching orders .. there is a God ;D
Well done Snarlene ... You're the best electioneer Nationalists have ever had ..
The thing I dont get is the absolute stupidity of the DUP .... How much longer will it take them to realise that if you treat you nationalist neighbours a little better, many of them will become apathetic re voting etc... but if you treat them badly (like you just did) they will get pissed and come out en masse ... This fact along with changing demographics should be enough to convince the DUP that they should be a little nicer ... or it will bite them in the bum .. which it just has ...
Go back to the 1960s and Terrence O'Neill "tried" to talk sense to the Unionist population but they kicked him out .. he had told them that if they treated catholics properly with decent housing, education & jobs etc.. they would behave like protestants :o lol ... Sounds like a bit of a back handed compliment now but very forward thinking at the time ... Carson also told them to not abuse their position ...
I guess they just cant help themselves ???
Tom Elliot leading the UU negotiations, the guy is a Spurs supporter FFS.
Just someone mentioning Sam McBride there I think his reporting and analysis of the election the past few months has been excellent!
Obviously has a lot of credible sources within the Unionist Community and gives a good insight into the other side.
The 1986 drop in nationalist vote was indeed post anglo-irish agreement when the Unionists bizarrely resigned their seats in protest but then stood for election. The nationalists only stood in a few seats where they had a slight chance of a gain and indeed Mallon won his seat in Newry and Armagh that year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_by-elections,_1986
"Gerry Adams says unionist majority 'demolished'"
Does anyone else think the likes of Gerry Adams using this type of language will cause a negative reaction within the middle ground of unionism and is therefore unhelpful? More consistent statesmen like language and reasoned positions in regard to dealing with the DUP would be much better received I would say.
Irish politicans , nay all politicians , tend to gloat a lot after victories . It can often lead to utter hubris that backfires . Witness FF in 1997 and 2007 and FG and particularly Labour in 2011.
Quote from: theskull1 on March 06, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
"Gerry Adams says unionist majority 'demolished'"
Does anyone else think the likes of Gerry Adams using this type of language will cause a negative reaction within the middle ground of unionism and is therefore unhelpful? More consistent statesmen like language and reasoned positions in regard to dealing with the DUP would be much better received I would say.
He should be a bit more conciliatory about it and to be fair O'Neill is making all the right noises in that regard.
Her dressing down of Gilernew back in February is hopefully the start of rooting out that mentality which really doesn't need to be there anymore. Everybody knows Unionism is in crisis and short of a baby boom they're not going to have the power they once had ever again.
If Sinn Fein are to learn any lessons from this election it is that triumphalism and complacency will come back to bite at the next election since a kick back can be expected particulary in relation to northern politics. Gerry Adams is no statesman in a situation like this, in fact he can be a liability foe the party at times and probably still the unionists main galvanising weapon.
Quote from: theskull1 on March 06, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
"Gerry Adams says unionist majority 'demolished'"
Does anyone else think the likes of Gerry Adams using this type of language will cause a negative reaction within the middle ground of unionism and is therefore unhelpful? More consistent statesmen like language and reasoned positions in regard to dealing with the DUP would be much better received I would say.
Yep, no call for it ... If Nationalism is to go into the ascendancy which I hope it is, we need to (for many reasons) treat Unionism better than they treated us .. His words weren't helpful and he should have chosen better..
He hasn't been triumphalist at all, in anything i've seen, even offering partial redemption to Foster. Is that the full actual quote, or is there a link to the article?
Boys
Why are Catholics continuing to outbreed Protestants in the North.
All the old explanations like contraception , role of women , poverty etc are no longer applicable IMO.
Any ideas ??
Catholic Wemen are just super horney all the time :o
Quote from: haranguerer on March 06, 2017, 03:02:52 PM
He hasn't been triumphalist at all, in anything i've seen, even offering partial redemption to Foster. Is that the full actual quote, or is there a link to the article?
Ah, I see he has been misquoted in the indo, and rte. Thats surprising... ::)
https://www.rte.ie/news/assembly-election-2017/2017/0304/857147-assembly-elections/
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/perpetual-unionist-majority-at-stormont-demolished-says-gerry-adams-35502486.html
Actual quote, the
idea of a perpetual unionist majority... These nuances make big differences, spreading mis-quotes doesn't help anyone.
Interestingly reported correctly in the british outlets...
http://news.sky.com/story/sinn-fein-cuts-dup-advantage-to-a-single-seat-in-stormont-elections-10789255
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-northern-ireland-2017-39168875
Mr Adams said the idea of "a perpetual unionist majority has been demolished".
Quote from: haranguerer on March 06, 2017, 03:09:03 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 06, 2017, 03:02:52 PM
He hasn't been triumphalist at all, in anything i've seen, even offering partial redemption to Foster. Is that the full actual quote, or is there a link to the article?
Ah, I see he has been misquoted in the indo, and rte. Thats surprising... ::)
https://www.rte.ie/news/assembly-election-2017/2017/0304/857147-assembly-elections/
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/perpetual-unionist-majority-at-stormont-demolished-says-gerry-adams-35502486.html
Actual quote, the idea of a perpetual unionist majority... These nuances make big differences, spreading mis-quotes doesn't help anyone.
Interestingly reported correctly in the british outlets...
http://news.sky.com/story/sinn-fein-cuts-dup-advantage-to-a-single-seat-in-stormont-elections-10789255
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-northern-ireland-2017-39168875
Mr Adams said the idea of "a perpetual unionist majority has been demolished".
That was how I read it but I got distracted by the sudden thoughts of northern horny women.
Still, I think Adams was being premature with his statement of some certainty.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 06, 2017, 03:09:03 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 06, 2017, 03:02:52 PM
He hasn't been triumphalist at all, in anything i've seen, even offering partial redemption to Foster. Is that the full actual quote, or is there a link to the article?
Ah, I see he has been misquoted in the indo, and rte. Thats surprising... ::)
https://www.rte.ie/news/assembly-election-2017/2017/0304/857147-assembly-elections/
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/perpetual-unionist-majority-at-stormont-demolished-says-gerry-adams-35502486.html
Actual quote, the idea of a perpetual unionist majority... These nuances make big differences, spreading mis-quotes doesn't help anyone.
Interestingly reported correctly in the british outlets...
http://news.sky.com/story/sinn-fein-cuts-dup-advantage-to-a-single-seat-in-stormont-elections-10789255
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-northern-ireland-2017-39168875
Mr Adams said the idea of "a perpetual unionist majority has been demolished".
He didn't need to say that and if you were a Unionist would you care about the nuance? Adams should have phrased it better or not used the term at all!!
You have speak more carefully in this age as even the tiniest things from an interview or speech can be hand picked and ruin you. Sinn Fein have played things well up to now but they have keep this up and not lose momentum with the middle ground Nationalists who voted for them this time round. If another election is called again in 2/3 months time they will face a stronger challenge from Unionists and they have to be ready for it!
Quote from: screenexile on March 06, 2017, 03:26:31 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 06, 2017, 03:09:03 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 06, 2017, 03:02:52 PM
He hasn't been triumphalist at all, in anything i've seen, even offering partial redemption to Foster. Is that the full actual quote, or is there a link to the article?
Ah, I see he has been misquoted in the indo, and rte. Thats surprising... ::)
https://www.rte.ie/news/assembly-election-2017/2017/0304/857147-assembly-elections/
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/perpetual-unionist-majority-at-stormont-demolished-says-gerry-adams-35502486.html
Actual quote, the idea of a perpetual unionist majority... These nuances make big differences, spreading mis-quotes doesn't help anyone.
Interestingly reported correctly in the british outlets...
http://news.sky.com/story/sinn-fein-cuts-dup-advantage-to-a-single-seat-in-stormont-elections-10789255
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-northern-ireland-2017-39168875
Mr Adams said the idea of "a perpetual unionist majority has been demolished".
He didn't need to say that and if you were a Unionist would you care about the nuance? Adams should have phrased it better or not used the term at all!!
You have speak more carefully in this age as even the tiniest things from an interview or speech can be hand picked and ruin you. Sinn Fein have played things well up to now but they have keep this up and not lose momentum with the middle ground Nationalists who voted for them this time round. If another election is called again in 2/3 months time they will face a stronger challenge from Unionists and they have to be ready for it!
Hold on - how could you not care about the nuance?? The issue here isn't what was said, its what hes been quoted as saying. How could he control that?
The fact is, the
idea of a unionist majority has been demolished - that is fact, no matter if you are unionist or nationalist, and it is a relevant statement in talking about what that election has done.
It is by no means certain that a unionist majority has been demolished, and it would be irresponsible to state that, and it is irresponsible to misquote Adams as having said it.
How can you blame him for saying things he didn't say?
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2017, 03:18:01 PM
Still, I think Adams was being premature with his statement of some certainty.
How? There is now a nationalist majority, you think its premature to say the
idea that there will be always a unionist majority has been demolished? Its stating the blindingly obvious.
Quote from: ashman on March 06, 2017, 03:03:41 PM
Boys
Why are Catholics continuing to outbreed Protestants in the North.
All the old explanations like contraception , role of women , poverty etc are no longer applicable IMO.
Any ideas ??
This was discussed elsewhere. There isn't much difference in the birthrates, although perhaps Catholics are more likely to live in the country and have bigger houses etc. and perhaps slightly bigger families. There was a big difference in the 70s-80s-90s though, and so there are more Catholics in the 20-40 age group, the group that have children, and so even if the birthrates are the same there will still be more Catholics born.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2017, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: ashman on March 06, 2017, 03:03:41 PM
Boys
Why are Catholics continuing to outbreed Protestants in the North.
All the old explanations like contraception , role of women , poverty etc are no longer applicable IMO.
Any ideas ??
That sound plausible .
This was discussed elsewhere. There isn't much difference in the birthrates, although perhaps Catholics are more likely to live in the country and have bigger houses etc. and perhaps slightly bigger families. There was a big difference in the 70s-80s-90s though, and so there are more Catholics in the 20-40 age group, the group that have children, and so even if the birthrates are the same there will still be more Catholics born.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2017, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: ashman on March 06, 2017, 03:03:41 PM
Boys
Why are Catholics continuing to outbreed Protestants in the North.
All the old explanations like contraception , role of women , poverty etc are no longer applicable IMO.
Any ideas ??
This was discussed elsewhere. There isn't much difference in the birthrates, although perhaps Catholics are more likely to live in the country and have bigger houses etc. and perhaps slightly bigger families. There was a big difference in the 70s-80s-90s though, and so there are more Catholics in the 20-40 age group, the group that have children, and so even if the birthrates are the same there will still be more Catholics born.
I have read that Protestant students are more likely than Catholics to go to university in GB and after graduation remain there adding to the changing demographics in the younger age group.
Quote from: dec on March 06, 2017, 03:52:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2017, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: ashman on March 06, 2017, 03:03:41 PM
Boys
Why are Catholics continuing to outbreed Protestants in the North.
All the old explanations like contraception , role of women , poverty etc are no longer applicable IMO.
Any ideas ??
This was discussed elsewhere. There isn't much difference in the birthrates, although perhaps Catholics are more likely to live in the country and have bigger houses etc. and perhaps slightly bigger families. There was a big difference in the 70s-80s-90s though, and so there are more Catholics in the 20-40 age group, the group that have children, and so even if the birthrates are the same there will still be more Catholics born.
I have read that Protestant students are more likely than Catholics to go to university in GB and after graduation remain there adding to the changing demographics in the younger age group.
Not true I have seen an article where the numbers going to GB for university are about the same. If anything the financial crisis probably hit the nationalist community more for emigration. You only have to look at some GAA teams in the west who struggle to field a team now and yet teams across the world flourish. The real reason for demographic change is rather morbid - in the over 65 age group the protestant background community is roughly 2/3rds compared to 1/3rd catholic so as each year goes by even if the birth rates were the same which they are not there is still a big differential made all the more important because of the greater likelihood of older people to vote!! The numbers have been there for some time but the nationalists just have not been voting because there was no point as even the GFA and ST Andrews agreements were not even being implemented. Arlene all on her own changed all that and gave them several reasons to vote. I myself though the demographic time bomb had become a hoax but looks like under the right circumstances its very real!!
Quote from: haranguerer on March 06, 2017, 03:34:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2017, 03:18:01 PM
Still, I think Adams was being premature with his statement of some certainty.
How? There is now a nationalist majority, you think its premature to say the idea that there will be always a unionist majority has been demolished? Its stating the blindingly obvious.
I don't think he needed to say that the "IDEA" of a Unionist majority has been demolished. . . he should be speaking positively about Nationalism/Republicanism there was no need to mention the Unionists demise let them worry about it.
It's so important going forward for Sinn Fein to take the higher ground on everything, although it didn't work for Clinton the mantra "When they go low we go high" should be SF's new motto!!!
Quote from: screenexile on March 06, 2017, 05:05:36 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 06, 2017, 03:34:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2017, 03:18:01 PM
Still, I think Adams was being premature with his statement of some certainty.
How? There is now a nationalist majority, you think its premature to say the idea that there will be always a unionist majority has been demolished? Its stating the blindingly obvious.
I don't think he needed to say that the "IDEA" of a Unionist majority has been demolished. . . he should be speaking positively about Nationalism/Republicanism there was no need to mention the Unionists demise let them worry about it.
It's so important going forward for Sinn Fein to take the higher ground on everything, although it didn't work for Clinton the mantra "When they go low we go high" should be SF's new motto!!!
Politically Adam's statement is premature. And already that word in bold (
idea) has been lost in the headline.
The very thing unionists fear, is everything they value being demolished, annihilated.
If and when Sinn Fein can be the first party, the unionist veto will still remain.
A situation will change but the unionists will react to that dynamic.
And that type of dynamic does not have that much appeal, does it?
At least not a destroyed forever appeal about it.
What's the goal?
Is the goal, a majority in a referendum voting to leave the UK? Hardly you can say right now that the idea of a majority voting to remain in the UK has been demolished for ever.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 06, 2017, 03:34:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2017, 03:18:01 PM
Still, I think Adams was being premature with his statement of some certainty.
How? There is now a nationalist majority, you think its premature to say the idea that there will be always a unionist majority has been demolished? Its stating the blindingly obvious.
There is now a Nationalist majority? When did this happen?
Quote from: screenexile on March 06, 2017, 05:05:36 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 06, 2017, 03:34:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2017, 03:18:01 PM
Still, I think Adams was being premature with his statement of some certainty.
How? There is now a nationalist majority, you think its premature to say the idea that there will be always a unionist majority has been demolished? Its stating the blindingly obvious.
I don't think he needed to say that the "IDEA" of a Unionist majority has been demolished. . . he should be speaking positively about Nationalism/Republicanism there was no need to mention the Unionists demise let them worry about it.
It's so important going forward for Sinn Fein to take the higher ground on everything, although it didn't work for Clinton the mantra "When they go low we go high" should be SF's new motto!!!
Yep, we need to be "better" than they are/were ... and I believe we will be..
Quote from: bennydorano on March 06, 2017, 05:17:30 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 06, 2017, 03:34:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2017, 03:18:01 PM
Still, I think Adams was being premature with his statement of some certainty.
How? There is now a nationalist majority, you think its premature to say the idea that there will be always a unionist majority has been demolished? Its stating the blindingly obvious.
There is now a Nationalist majority? When did this happen?
Quite right. There is no nationalist majority in Stormont and no nationalist majority in NI.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 06, 2017, 06:40:24 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 06, 2017, 06:11:01 PM
Quite right. There is no nationalist majority in Stormont and no nationalist majority in NI.
More nationalist voted than unionist, because of the constituency borders this didn't transpire to more seats but they had the majority vote
Do you mean that the turnout of the smaller number of nationalist voters was higher than than among the larger number of Unionist voters?
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/ruth-dudley-edwards/ruth-dudley-edwards-unionists-need-to-start-acting-like-patriots-rather-than-nationalists-or-war-will-be-lost-35504078.html
Oh the irony.
Talk of a border poll is unfortunately premature at the minute. Whilst it is now closer than it looked 10 months ago, we need to remember that a high proportion of Alliance voters are soft unionists who would be very unlikely to vote for a UI in a referendum. Brexit might change that however - we're in for an interesting few years.
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 06, 2017, 07:23:43 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/ruth-dudley-edwards/ruth-dudley-edwards-unionists-need-to-start-acting-like-patriots-rather-than-nationalists-or-war-will-be-lost-35504078.html
Oh the irony.
Talk of a border poll is unfortunately premature at the minute. Whilst it is now closer than it looked 10 months ago, we need to remember that a high proportion of Alliance voters are soft unionists who would be very unlikely to vote for a UI in a referendum. Brexit might change that however - we're in for an interesting few years.
Yip, need to careful what they wish for in terms of calling for a border poll.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 06, 2017, 06:40:24 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 06, 2017, 06:11:01 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 06, 2017, 05:17:30 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 06, 2017, 03:34:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2017, 03:18:01 PM
Still, I think Adams was being premature with his statement of some certainty.
How? There is now a nationalist majority, you think its premature to say the idea that there will be always a unionist majority has been demolished? Its stating the blindingly obvious.
There is now a Nationalist majority? When did this happen?
Quite right. There is no nationalist majority in Stormont and no nationalist majority in NI.
More nationalist voted than unionist, because of the constituency borders this didn't transpire to more seats but they had the majority vote
Really? I must have missed that analysis somewhere along the way. Sure throw up the data and evidence to we get a look.
The MLAs shouldn't get paid until the Assembly is functioning, expenses only reimbursed.
That might give them an incentive to cut out a part of the waffle.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 06, 2017, 06:40:24 PM
Quote from: LCohen on March 06, 2017, 06:11:01 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 06, 2017, 05:17:30 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 06, 2017, 03:34:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2017, 03:18:01 PM
Still, I think Adams was being premature with his statement of some certainty.
How? There is now a nationalist majority, you think its premature to say the idea that there will be always a unionist majority has been demolished? Its stating the blindingly obvious.
There is now a Nationalist majority? When did this happen?
Quite right. There is no nationalist majority in Stormont and no nationalist majority in NI.
More nationalist voted than unionist, because of the constituency borders this didn't transpire to more seats but they had the majority vote
SF and SDLP had less than 40% of the vote. What parties did the other 10%+ express their nationslism by voting for?
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 06, 2017, 07:23:43 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/ruth-dudley-edwards/ruth-dudley-edwards-unionists-need-to-start-acting-like-patriots-rather-than-nationalists-or-war-will-be-lost-35504078.html
Oh the irony.
Talk of a border poll is unfortunately premature at the minute. Whilst it is now closer than it looked 10 months ago, we need to remember that a high proportion of Alliance voters are soft unionists who would be very unlikely to vote for a UI in a referendum. Brexit might change that however - we're in for an interesting few years.
Impossible to say at this stage but its really not certain that brexit will make much of a difference
https://www.ft.com/content/80d3f39e-0265-11e7-ace0-1ce02ef0def9
"The election outcome has gravely weakened the more hardline DUP, which supported Brexit," says Vincent Boland, the FT's Dublin correspondent. "So the question of the EU will become a much bigger issue in Northern Irish politics from here on."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2zvWbrv-CY
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2017, 05:08:52 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 06, 2017, 05:05:36 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 06, 2017, 03:34:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2017, 03:18:01 PM
Still, I think Adams was being premature with his statement of some certainty.
How? There is now a nationalist majority, you think its premature to say the idea that there will be always a unionist majority has been demolished? Its stating the blindingly obvious.
I don't think he needed to say that the "IDEA" of a Unionist majority has been demolished. . . he should be speaking positively about Nationalism/Republicanism there was no need to mention the Unionists demise let them worry about it.
It's so important going forward for Sinn Fein to take the higher ground on everything, although it didn't work for Clinton the mantra "When they go low we go high" should be SF's new motto!!!
Politically Adam's statement is premature. And already that word in bold (idea) has been lost in the headline.
The very thing unionists fear, is everything they value being demolished, annihilated.
If and when Sinn Fein can be the first party, the unionist veto will still remain.
A situation will change but the unionists will react to that dynamic.
And that type of dynamic does not have that much appeal, does it?
At least not a destroyed forever appeal about it.
What's the goal?
Is the goal, a majority in a referendum voting to leave the UK? Hardly you can say right now that the idea of a majority voting to remain in the UK has been demolished for ever.
Yes, lost in some of the headlines. Propagated by comments here and elsewhere based on those erroneous headlines. How long will it take for the penny to drop that headlines aren't usually a good guide? Still think Elvis lives on the moon? Probably best to read the full thing before commenting.
And now we're talking about a referendum? First commenting on something he didn't say, then deciding for him what he should have been talking about so as to make his statement fit with your first evaluation of it ::)
Quote from: bennydorano on March 06, 2017, 05:17:30 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 06, 2017, 03:34:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2017, 03:18:01 PM
Still, I think Adams was being premature with his statement of some certainty.
How? There is now a nationalist majority, you think its premature to say the idea that there will be always a unionist majority has been demolished? Its stating the blindingly obvious.
There is now a Nationalist majority? When did this happen?
Apologies, of course there isn't - got carried away. Doesn't make any difference to the point re unionists not having a majority
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2017, 09:06:43 PM
The MLAs shouldn't get paid until the Assembly is functioning, expenses only reimbursed.
That might give them an incentive to cut out a part of the waffle.
Ah no, its you again, this will just look like a vendetta ;D , but I always hate this type of populist comment, usually strewn over facebook along with disparaging comments about those on the hill, collects loads of 'likes'...
You're suggesting politicians should work for free? And you expect to have quality people to represent you? Presumably you wouldn't think it a good thing if they were all independently wealthy, which would be the only way this could work?
That's not to mention that the implication of what you say is that you would be encouraging the politicians to put their own self interest ahead of those they represent. I'm pretty sure that's the opposite of how its supposed to work.
Nolan now.
I don't listen that often but it would make you despair.
Some knuckledragger on talking about a combined loyalist military council..wtf!!!
Is there really a nationalist majority? Do people know what the religious split of the Alliance vote was ?
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on March 07, 2017, 09:28:55 AM
Nolan now.
I don't listen that often but it would make you despair.
Some knuckledragger on talking about a combined loyalist military council..wtf!!!
Nolan should have pushed that guy to explain what that group was about and how they got funded it would have been more interesting than the rest of the Nolan show.
Nolan pointed out often enough how many votes the DUP had gotten, it was like if he got their whole attention lambasting SF for trying to bring big Arlene into disrepute, it would be a good mornings work as he'd have a minimum of quarter of a million listeners.
Quote from: seafoid on March 07, 2017, 09:44:02 AM
Is there really a nationalist majority? Do people know what the religious split of the Alliance vote was ?
Its would be often seen as soft unionist, so highly unlikely there is an effective (if not designated) nationalist majority
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on March 07, 2017, 09:28:55 AM
Nolan now.
I don't listen that often but it would make you despair.
Some knuckledragger on talking about a combined loyalist military council..wtf!!!
History suggest that this sort of thing was gonna happen if the union might be showing signs of being compromised
sure isn't it a pledge to take up arms if the union is threatened when joining the orange order ( i could be wrong on this )
Whatever format a UI comes in will bring nasty reprisals unfortunately
Do we honestly think the hardliners in loyalist areas are gonna roll over and think
This is democracy so that's ok
Quote from: haranguerer on March 07, 2017, 08:18:35 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2017, 05:08:52 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 06, 2017, 05:05:36 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 06, 2017, 03:34:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2017, 03:18:01 PM
Still, I think Adams was being premature with his statement of some certainty.
How? There is now a nationalist majority, you think its premature to say the idea that there will be always a unionist majority has been demolished? Its stating the blindingly obvious.
I don't think he needed to say that the "IDEA" of a Unionist majority has been demolished. . . he should be speaking positively about Nationalism/Republicanism there was no need to mention the Unionists demise let them worry about it.
It's so important going forward for Sinn Fein to take the higher ground on everything, although it didn't work for Clinton the mantra "When they go low we go high" should be SF's new motto!!!
Politically Adam's statement is premature. And already that word in bold (idea) has been lost in the headline.
The very thing unionists fear, is everything they value being demolished, annihilated.
If and when Sinn Fein can be the first party, the unionist veto will still remain.
A situation will change but the unionists will react to that dynamic.
And that type of dynamic does not have that much appeal, does it?
At least not a destroyed forever appeal about it.
What's the goal?
Is the goal, a majority in a referendum voting to leave the UK? Hardly you can say right now that the idea of a majority voting to remain in the UK has been demolished for ever.
Yes, lost in some of the headlines. Propagated by comments here and elsewhere based on those erroneous headlines. How long will it take for the penny to drop that headlines aren't usually a good guide? Still think Elvis lives on the moon? Probably best to read the full thing before commenting.
And now we're talking about a referendum? First commenting on something he didn't say, then deciding for him what he should have been talking about so as to make his statement fit with your first evaluation of it ::)
Now you are surmising and being flippant while deliberately making erroneous extrapolations in a boring pedantic condescending manner.
I explained why I thought Adams' statement was politically premature. I read and heard all of what Adams was quoted as saying on the matter.
Afaic, it's way too early to make enthusiastic proclamations about his belief that the idea of a unionist majority is demolished forever.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 07, 2017, 08:32:13 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2017, 09:06:43 PM
The MLAs shouldn't get paid until the Assembly is functioning, expenses only reimbursed.
That might give them an incentive to cut out a part of the waffle.
Ah no, its you again, this will just look like a vendetta ;D , but I always hate this type of populist comment, usually strewn over facebook along with disparaging comments about those on the hill, collects loads of 'likes'...
You're suggesting politicians should work for free? And you expect to have quality people to represent you? Presumably you wouldn't think it a good thing if they were all independently wealthy, which would be the only way this could work?
That's not to mention that the implication of what you say is that you would be encouraging the politicians to put their own self interest ahead of those they represent. I'm pretty sure that's the opposite of how its supposed to work.
Oh look, it's the keyboard pedant again, how exciting.
Yes haranguerer I made a flippant comment when I read an article the BT that 3 months is the expected end date for the assembly to be up and running, i hope the comment has not caused you too much stress.
quote from the article
Pat McCartan, the previous chair of the Independent Financial Review Panel
has written to the Secretary of State to make the recommendations for after direct rule is in place, if it is required.
He said it was important an Assembly was up and running and that the people trusted it.
"Frankly we think three months is long enough in order to get people into the legislative Assembly for which they are paid," he told the BBC.
You're entitled to comment, as am I. Given its a discussion board, you shouldn't be surprised that your comment may be commented upon.
I disagree with both your comments and have pointed out why - your refutation of the first one doesn't carry any weight, fair enough if the second was flippant but its still stupid. As is that former committee getting involved - a trio of attention seekers
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 07, 2017, 10:49:55 AM
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on March 07, 2017, 09:28:55 AM
Nolan now.
I don't listen that often but it would make you despair.
Some knuckledragger on talking about a combined loyalist military council..wtf!!!
History suggest that this sort of thing was gonna happen if the union might be showing signs of being compromised
sure isn't it a pledge to take up arms if the union is threatened when joining the orange order ( i could be wrong on this )
Whatever format a UI comes in will bring nasty reprisals unfortunately
Do we honestly think the hardliners in loyalist areas are gonna roll over and think
This is democracy so that's ok
Ah sure they'll re-draw the border around north antrim, lol. Cheaper than importing arms.
Aye they can keep Larne & Ballymena :o lol
What about the dissident position after this? .. surely they will f*ck off the scene now .. I mean, if an AI is what they're interested in surely they can see movement there now .... What the feck do they think their purpose is anyway :-[ ...
Quote from: seafoid on March 07, 2017, 09:44:02 AM
Is there really a nationalist majority? Do people know what the religious split of the Alliance vote was ?
No, there isn't a nationalist majority. Neither is there a unionist majority for the first time since the foundation of the north.
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 07, 2017, 02:06:53 PM
Aye they can keep Larne & Ballymena :o lol
Come on lads no one gets left behind 😃
Sure SF topped the FP votes up here for the first time ever
I mm with you on the larne bit all the same
Ian Jr favours humble pie, for Arlene no doubt.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/my-father-and-martin-mcguinness-got-over-far-worse-time-for-humble-pie-ian-paisley-35508747.html
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 07, 2017, 02:32:14 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 07, 2017, 02:06:53 PM
Aye they can keep Larne & Ballymena :o lol
Come on lads no one gets left behind 😃
Sure SF topped the FP votes up here for the first time ever
I mm with you on the larne bit all the same
That's exactly what Collins said about the six all those years ago.
Which party had the most successful election in terms of improving its first preference votes compared to the May 2016?
Could SF or the DUP form a government by forming a coalition with the smaller parties? Can't see either SF or DUP backing down.
Quote from: Denn Forever on March 08, 2017, 05:37:36 PM
Could SF or the DUP form a government by forming a coalition with the smaller parties? Can't see either SF or DUP backing down.
It is mandatory coalition according to D'hondt. 10 ministries divided up.
This would mean 5 each for DUP and SF if no one else joins executive - DUP would attempt 4 DUP, 3 SF and 1 Independent for Justice essentially a 5:3 unionist:nationalist split as DUP have refused to allocate Justice to a nationalist.
It could also go 3 DUP, 3 SF, 1 SDLP, 1 UUP or 3 DUP, 2 SF, 1 SDLP, 1 UUP and 1 Alliance for Justice.
Jim Allister is promoting a voluntary coalition of the willing but with power sharing. No one is listening.
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 08, 2017, 04:24:41 PM
Which party had the most successful election in terms of improving its first preference votes compared to the May 2016?
It was Alliance who increased their vote by 50% in 8 months.
(http://i.imgur.com/51bAXJR.jpg)
A very good analysis of the SF strategy....
http://sluggerotoole.com/2017/03/08/after-ae17-sinn-fein/?utm_content=bufferfee93&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer (http://sluggerotoole.com/2017/03/08/after-ae17-sinn-fein/?utm_content=bufferfee93&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer)
Is Brokenshire offering another election to help out his mates in the DUP? Could be worth £5m of our money to him and the DUP?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-39218555 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-39218555)
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 07, 2017, 02:09:40 PM
What about the dissident position after this? .. surely they will f*ck off the scene now .. I mean, if an AI is what they're interested in surely they can see movement there now .... What the feck do they think their purpose is anyway :-[ ...
They'll still presumably be sticking around to try and sell more drugs.
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 09, 2017, 01:31:04 PM
Is Brokenshire offering another election to help out his mates in the DUP? Could be worth £5m of our money to him and the DUP?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-39218555 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-39218555)
what good would it do? The proportions would be roughly the same, the DUP might get a seat or two, but probably at the expense of the UU. This is a good chance that the rest of the population might use their transfers wisely to ensure the DUP did not gain. Even if the DUP reached 30 and so the possibility of using the POC SF can still refuse to elect Arlene. Nationalist and unionist turnout is broadly similar, there are some more unionists to get out, but also more nationalists.
Quote from: AQMP on March 09, 2017, 01:48:37 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 09, 2017, 01:31:04 PM
Is Brokenshire offering another election to help out his mates in the DUP? Could be worth £5m of our money to him and the DUP?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-39218555 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-39218555)
Depends if there's enough time for a DUP/UUP pact! I can't see another election solving much...Prods turn out to regain supremacy, Taigs turn out as they're in with a sniff of being in the driving seat. As you were? If there's no agreement after that, is there a 3rd election??
Brokenshire comes across as a little Englander knobend who knows nor cares anything about this place, but its a cabinet post to further his career.
Quote from: johnneycool on March 09, 2017, 03:43:59 PM
Quote from: AQMP on March 09, 2017, 01:48:37 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 09, 2017, 01:31:04 PM
Is Brokenshire offering another election to help out his mates in the DUP? Could be worth £5m of our money to him and the DUP?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-39218555 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-39218555)
Depends if there's enough time for a DUP/UUP pact! I can't see another election solving much...Prods turn out to regain supremacy, Taigs turn out as they're in with a sniff of being in the driving seat. As you were? If there's no agreement after that, is there a 3rd election??
Brokenshire comes across as a little Englander knobend who knows nor cares anything about this place, but its a cabinet post to further his career.
Brokenshire was one of Theresa May's favourite junior ministers in the Home Office when she was in charge. His role as SoS is his reward and he is directed entirely by May's requirements which include a majority vote on any issue.
The working of any newly formed executive:
http://www.thedetail.tv/articles/how-a-new-executive-could-look-if-there-is-one (http://www.thedetail.tv/articles/how-a-new-executive-could-look-if-there-is-one)
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 09, 2017, 01:31:04 PM
Is Brokenshire offering another election to help out his mates in the DUP? Could be worth £5m of our money to him and the DUP?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-39218555 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-39218555)
The repulsive little Tory/Unionist Puppet is simply trying to scare SF into toeing the line and kowtowing to Big Arnie Fister .... I doubt it will work out the way he thinks it will ... And on we go .. ffs ::) ... What a bunch of odious horrible scrotes the Tories & the DUP are ... absolutely disgusting oxygen thief's the lot of them :-\
Folks, how do you add an image to a post ?
and please no "hammer a nail into it" answers ::) lol
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 09, 2017, 05:37:07 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 09, 2017, 01:31:04 PM
Is Brokenshire offering another election to help out his mates in the DUP? Could be worth £5m of our money to him and the DUP?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-39218555 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-39218555)
The repulsive little Tory/Unionist Puppet is simply trying to scare SF into toeing the line and kowtowing to Big Arnie Fister .... I doubt it will work out the way he thinks it will ... And on we go .. ffs ::) ... What a bunch of odious horrible scrotes the Tories & the DUP are ... absolutely disgusting oxygen thief's the lot of them :-\
Shouldn't be surprised by that lapdog backing snarline. Looks like we are of to the poles again
So be it
What is the point in another election. Absolute waste of time and money.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 09, 2017, 08:33:11 PM
What is the point in another election. Absolute waste of time and money.
Yeah fcuk that, to get the exact same result give or take a seat
Does anyone else steal election posters and take them home and have like a family life with them? At the minute Michelle O'Neill is ironing and Mike Nesbitt is poking the fire.
Quote from: Olly on March 09, 2017, 08:45:46 PM
Does anyone else steal election posters and take them home and have like a family life with them? At the minute Michelle O'Neill is ironing and Mike Nesbitt is poking the fire.
Where's Arlene
Just keep her on standby, everyone runs out of bog roll at some stage
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 09, 2017, 05:37:07 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 09, 2017, 01:31:04 PM
Is Brokenshire offering another election to help out his mates in the DUP? Could be worth £5m of our money to him and the DUP?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-39218555 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-39218555)
The repulsive little Tory/Unionist Puppet is simply trying to scare SF into toeing the line and kowtowing to Big Arnie Fister .... I doubt it will work out the way he thinks it will ... And on we go .. ffs ::) ... What a bunch of odious horrible scrotes the Tories & the DUP are ... absolutely disgusting oxygen thief's the lot of them :-\
+1.
Quote from: Olly on March 09, 2017, 08:45:46 PM
Does anyone else steal election posters and take them home and have like a family life with them? At the minute Michelle O'Neill is ironing and Mike Nesbitt is poking the fire.
Surely Mc Elduff is poking the fire, keeping er lit...
Quote from: Minder on March 09, 2017, 08:36:25 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 09, 2017, 08:33:11 PM
What is the point in another election. Absolute waste of time and money.
Yeah fcuk that, to get the exact same result give or take a seat
Westminster has pinned their colours, its two fingers up to the nationalist electorate
Last weeks election was about the Rottweiler stepping aside or am I missing something
DUP must want another election when they backed her after this week
They came out in the first round and got a bloody nose but didn't get knocked out
Now they want to reload (with the UUP in their corner this time) and come out in round 2 swinging and get back POC because they are control freaks
There will be no crocodile insults this time to get our ganders up as they have to have learned something
We have to that ourselves
It's a sh.te state of affairs but there's not point in voting last week and not going again this time
How many here think SF should fold and let go why we voted in the first place
Quote from: Minder on March 09, 2017, 08:36:25 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 09, 2017, 08:33:11 PM
What is the point in another election. Absolute waste of time and money.
Yeah fcuk that, to get the exact same result give or take a seat
Nationalist apathy (like this) could result in a vastly different result. If there is another one, its vital the nationalist vote is even more motivated than at the last one, as the unionist vote will be. If they increase their vote/seats, it will have been a result for them.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 10, 2017, 08:43:02 AM
Quote from: Minder on March 09, 2017, 08:36:25 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 09, 2017, 08:33:11 PM
What is the point in another election. Absolute waste of time and money.
Yeah fcuk that, to get the exact same result give or take a seat
Nationalist apathy (like this) could result in a vastly different result. If there is another one, its vital the nationalist vote is even more motivated than at the last one, as the unionist vote will be. If they increase their vote/seats, it will have been a result for them.
Is there any seat when the SDLP and SF could combine to lose the DUP a seat?
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 08:54:15 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 10, 2017, 08:43:02 AM
Quote from: Minder on March 09, 2017, 08:36:25 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 09, 2017, 08:33:11 PM
What is the point in another election. Absolute waste of time and money.
Yeah fcuk that, to get the exact same result give or take a seat
Nationalist apathy (like this) could result in a vastly different result. If there is another one, its vital the nationalist vote is even more motivated than at the last one, as the unionist vote will be. If they increase their vote/seats, it will have been a result for them.
Is there any seat when the SDLP and SF could combine to lose the DUP a seat?
Strangford is a possibility for the SDLP if SF were to step down.
beat me to it jc.
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 08:54:15 AM
Is there any seat when the SDLP and SF could combine to lose the DUP a seat?
They didn't do it in Fermanagh South Tyrone for General election they won't do it now. And rightly so, they stand on very different platforms.
There is no nationalist majority in the North. You roughly have a 42/42% split give or take if you include the TUV and the other 16% non-aligned in terms of 1st preference votes. But that doesn't even equate to 42% in favour of a UI, it means that 42% are at worst cultural nationalists, and there are many who would not vote for a UI in the morning. SF keep talking about persuading unionists of the benefits, they need also to persuade nationalists although that would be an easier task. Many nationalists myself included whilst holding the aspiration of unity will only vote for it in the right circumstances, for me the worry is creating the troubles in reverse, for others it is the NHS, education and welfare.
Quote from: vallankumous on March 10, 2017, 08:57:19 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 08:54:15 AM
Is there any seat when the SDLP and SF could combine to lose the DUP a seat?
They didn't do it in Fermanagh South Tyrone for General election they won't do it now. And rightly so, they stand on very different platforms.
They have done it in FST in the past eg 1970 , 74, 81. SF are v close to 30 which is the magic number and DUP minus 1 or 2 would mean they couldn't get the veto. Unionists have no hassle voting tactically.
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 10, 2017, 09:07:26 AM
SF keep talking about persuading unionists of the benefits, they need also to persuade nationalists although that would be an easier task. Many nationalists myself included whilst holding the aspiration of unity will only vote for it in the right circumstances, for me the worry is creating the troubles in reverse, for others it is the NHS, education and welfare.
Not sure it would be much easier because at least the Unionists are visible. With Nationalists you will never now how they will go in the voting booth despite what they say and do outside of it. It is easy to be aspirational while the unionist majority always ensure that the aspiration cannot be achieved.
Can Apples point out how education would suffer in a UI?
Or welfare seeing as 26 Co rates are much higher than 6 Cos rates?????
As for another election. .... boycott it.
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 09:19:55 AM
Quote from: vallankumous on March 10, 2017, 08:57:19 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 08:54:15 AM
Is there any seat when the SDLP and SF could combine to lose the DUP a seat?
They didn't do it in Fermanagh South Tyrone for General election they won't do it now. And rightly so, they stand on very different platforms.
They have done it in FST in the past eg 1970 , 74, 81. SF are v close to 30 which is the magic number and DUP minus 1 or 2 would mean they couldn't get the veto. Unionists have no hassle voting tactically.
You can expect dormant unionist to come out this time and UUP to transfer or not even run in places
Only saving grace might be that the Rottweiler will have to repeat the anti nationalist mood to motivate them therefore getting nationalist ill feeling back up
I would expect them to regain POC
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 09:19:55 AM
They have done it in FST in the past eg 1970 , 74, 81. SF are v close to 30 which is the magic number and DUP minus 1 or 2 would mean they couldn't get the veto. Unionists have no hassle voting tactically.
They didn't do it in 1981.
Bobby Sands stood as an anti H Block candidate not a SF candidate.
Quote from: johnneycool on March 09, 2017, 03:43:59 PM
Quote from: AQMP on March 09, 2017, 01:48:37 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 09, 2017, 01:31:04 PM
Is Brokenshire offering another election to help out his mates in the DUP? Could be worth £5m of our money to him and the DUP?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-39218555 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-39218555)
Depends if there's enough time for a DUP/UUP pact! I can't see another election solving much...Prods turn out to regain supremacy, Taigs turn out as they're in with a sniff of being in the driving seat. As you were? If there's no agreement after that, is there a 3rd election??
Brokenshire comes across as a little Englander knobend who knows nor cares anything about this place, but its a cabinet post to further his career.
Arlene has done a few interviews where she has hinted that DUP might nominate someone else as FM. I think she is playing a game of bluff here. She is banking on Brokenshire and Shinners not coming to an agreement on legacy inquiries, the thing breaking down and going into fresh election saying she offered to stand aside but it wasn't enough for the crocodile.
/Jim.
Quote from: vallankumous on March 10, 2017, 10:04:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 09:19:55 AM
They have done it in FST in the past eg 1970 , 74, 81. SF are v close to 30 which is the magic number and DUP minus 1 or 2 would mean they couldn't get the veto. Unionists have no hassle voting tactically.
They didn't do it in 1981.
Bobby Sands stood as an anti H Block candidate not a SF candidate.
There was no nationalist competition which is the reason unionists win the seat
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on March 10, 2017, 10:16:56 AM
Arlene has done a few interviews where she has hinted that DUP might nominate someone else as FM. I think she is playing a game of bluff here. She is banking on Brokenshire and Shinners not coming to an agreement on legacy inquiries, the thing breaking down and going into fresh election saying she offered to stand aside but it wasn't enough for the crocodile.
/Jim.
She has an easy way out if she would take it. There is already precedent set. She should run for the Dail and remain as leader of the DUP.
Enda Kenny is not going to run in the next election so there's a massive Unionist vote in mayo for her to step in and soak up. If he gets a big Job in Europe he'll resign as TD and she could step in for the by-election.
There are multiple unionist parties because there are multiple strands of unionism. Even the current suite of parties are themselves coalitions (apart from TUV which only comes in one form). Within the UUP vote there are people who could not vote for the DUP brand, or could cosy up to the Simon Hamilton side of the party but not the Edwin Poots side. Alliance would be a big recipient of votes if politicians polarise non-sectarian unionism
Quote from: LCohen on March 10, 2017, 11:05:56 AM
There are multiple unionist parties because there are multiple strands of unionism. Even the current suite of parties are themselves coalitions (apart from TUV which only comes in one form). Within the UUP vote there are people who could not vote for the DUP brand, or could cosy up to the Simon Hamilton side of the party but not the Edwin Poots side. Alliance would be a big recipient of votes if politicians polarise non-sectarian unionism
The last 100 odd years of voting would suggest otherwise
Stop applying logic when it comes to unionism
Dead cert that the DUP want to rev up the polarising politics to blind/scare the stupid masses, let the talks fail and go for fresh elections. Personally think too much of SF's language has been too heavy handed and fairly self indulgent and is playing into the DUP's plans.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 09:37:18 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 09:19:55 AM
Quote from: vallankumous on March 10, 2017, 08:57:19 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 08:54:15 AM
Is there any seat when the SDLP and SF could combine to lose the DUP a seat?
They didn't do it in Fermanagh South Tyrone for General election they won't do it now. And rightly so, they stand on very different platforms.
They have done it in FST in the past eg 1970 , 74, 81. SF are v close to 30 which is the magic number and DUP minus 1 or 2 would mean they couldn't get the veto. Unionists have no hassle voting tactically.
You can expect dormant unionist to come out this time and UUP to transfer or not even run in places
Only saving grace might be that the Rottweiler will have to repeat the anti nationalist mood to motivate them therefore getting nationalist ill feeling back up
I would expect them to regain POC
I think Brexit gives nationalists a reason to vote even if the DUP were more accommodating, you only have to look at Scotland where people are p***d off with London and Brexit will be several orders of magnitude more insulting in NI.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 11:20:29 AM
Quote from: LCohen on March 10, 2017, 11:05:56 AM
There are multiple unionist parties because there are multiple strands of unionism. Even the current suite of parties are themselves coalitions (apart from TUV which only comes in one form). Within the UUP vote there are people who could not vote for the DUP brand, or could cosy up to the Simon Hamilton side of the party but not the Edwin Poots side. Alliance would be a big recipient of votes if politicians polarise non-sectarian unionism
The last 100 odd years of voting would suggest otherwise
Stop applying logic when it comes to unionism
Are you saying everyone in Northern Ireland is sectarian or just the ones who disagree with you on a united ireland?
I would vote to remain in U.K. So would the wife. Are we sectarian?
Quote from: theskull1 on March 10, 2017, 11:24:52 AM
Dead cert that the DUP want to rev up the polarising politics to blind/scare the stupid masses, let the talks fail and go for fresh elections. Personally think too much of SF's language has been too heavy handed and fairly self indulgent and is playing into the DUP's plans.
There is undeniably a desire on the part of DUP and SF to wipe out UUP and SDLP respectively. And they each sense blood
Quote from: LCohen on March 10, 2017, 11:36:38 AM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 11:20:29 AM
Quote from: LCohen on March 10, 2017, 11:05:56 AM
There are multiple unionist parties because there are multiple strands of unionism. Even the current suite of parties are themselves coalitions (apart from TUV which only comes in one form). Within the UUP vote there are people who could not vote for the DUP brand, or could cosy up to the Simon Hamilton side of the party but not the Edwin Poots side. Alliance would be a big recipient of votes if politicians polarise non-sectarian unionism
The last 100 odd years of voting would suggest otherwise
Stop applying logic when it comes to unionism
Are you saying everyone in Northern Ireland is sectarian or just the ones who disagree with you on a united ireland?
I would vote to remain in U.K. So would the wife. Are we sectarian?
[/quote
My reply to your post didn't refer to sectarianism or the UI agenda so why are you bringing that up
Your post was in relation to the subject of different strains of unionism and they are to polerised now to implement a collective voting strategy
My reply was to suggest that when it came to keeping the nationalist representation in office in a minority the unionist always collaborated regardless of their unionist ideology
How you can deduce that I implied everyone in N Ireland is sectarian is beyond me
You and your good wife has every right to vote to remain in the UK and it doesn't make you sectarian
But it does make you a unionist ( you certainly have the confrontational gene )which is your choice
And I respect your right to vote that way
Quote from: theskull1 on March 10, 2017, 11:24:52 AM
Dead cert that the DUP want to rev up the polarising politics to blind/scare the stupid masses, let the talks fail and go for fresh elections. Personally think too much of SF's language has been too heavy handed and fairly self indulgent and is playing into the DUP's plans.
Agreed the only agenda was the Arlene not stepping down and the Irish language act
This legacy business should do for another time
Quote from: LCohen on March 10, 2017, 11:47:11 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on March 10, 2017, 11:24:52 AM
Dead cert that the DUP want to rev up the polarising politics to blind/scare the stupid masses, let the talks fail and go for fresh elections. Personally think too much of SF's language has been too heavy handed and fairly self indulgent and is playing into the DUP's plans.
There is undeniably a desire on the part of DUP and SF to wipe out UUP and SDLP respectively. And they each sense blood
actually think that SF should not have pushed the end of unionist domination point, subtly they should have pushed shared future, working together etc
then appeal to sdlp supporters that they need a bigger mandate to push the equality points etc
the way it is going they are now portrayed as the boogeyman and its playing into the united unionism hands
if we don't stick together you will be frog marched into a united Ireland
Quote from: LCohen on March 10, 2017, 11:47:11 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on March 10, 2017, 11:24:52 AM
Dead cert that the DUP want to rev up the polarising politics to blind/scare the stupid masses, let the talks fail and go for fresh elections. Personally think too much of SF's language has been too heavy handed and fairly self indulgent and is playing into the DUP's plans.
There is undeniably a desire on the part of DUP and SF to wipe out UUP and SDLP respectively. And they each sense blood
Yeah absolutely, they know they are going to be wedded to each other for a long time (maybe SF will be the biggest party but DUP will be their partners) at Stormont and want absolute power.
Quote from: naka on March 10, 2017, 12:03:30 PM
actually think that SF should not have pushed the end of unionist domination point, subtly they should have pushed shared future, working together etc
then appeal to sdlp supporters that they need a bigger mandate to push the equality points etc
the way it is going they are now portrayed as the boogeyman and its playing into the united unionism hands
if we don't stick together you will be frog marched into a united Ireland
Yes, I think you're right.
It's very difficult to do though. It was a major talking point among journalists and very hard to play down a victory. it could back fire now though.
Unionists could seek another election and their only target is one or two more seats and it's a victory. it's easy to see where unionism went wrong in this election but it's not easy to see where nationalism went right. If SF bringing down Stromont was a boost to them, they've played that card. It's impossible to know if the nationalist community are angry. They had their vote and got a result. Is that anger still there? Have the DUP been punished enough?
You seen with the reaction to FF after the economy went tits up, the electorate felt they'd punished them enough very soon after that. Also, with the loss of the majority and the veto and the widely accepted fact that nesbitt made a mistake, it's hard to see Unionism transfer across as much in a new election.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 11:57:41 AM
Quote from: LCohen on March 10, 2017, 11:36:38 AM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 11:20:29 AM
Quote from: LCohen on March 10, 2017, 11:05:56 AM
There are multiple unionist parties because there are multiple strands of unionism. Even the current suite of parties are themselves coalitions (apart from TUV which only comes in one form). Within the UUP vote there are people who could not vote for the DUP brand, or could cosy up to the Simon Hamilton side of the party but not the Edwin Poots side. Alliance would be a big recipient of votes if politicians polarise non-sectarian unionism
The last 100 odd years of voting would suggest otherwise
Stop applying logic when it comes to unionism
Are you saying everyone in Northern Ireland is sectarian or just the ones who disagree with you on a united ireland?
I would vote to remain in U.K. So would the wife. Are we sectarian?
[/quote
My reply to your post didn't refer to sectarianism or the UI agenda so why are you bringing that up
Your post was in relation to the subject of different strains of unionism and they are to polerised now to implement a collective voting strategy
My reply was to suggest that when it came to keeping the nationalist representation in office in a minority the unionist always collaborated regardless of their unionist ideology
How you can deduce that I implied everyone in N Ireland is sectarian is beyond me
You and your good wife has every right to vote to remain in the UK and it doesn't make you sectarian
But it does make you a unionist ( you certainly have the confrontational gene )which is your choice
And I respect your right to vote that way
You didn't specify which part of my post you disagreed with so presumed you disagreed with all of it (including the existence of non sectarian unionists).
Of course there are shades of unionism and of course in 2017 and beyond there are unionists who will not vote for DUP or some extended form of DUP even if it was the only expressly unionist candidate on offer.
There are definitely unionists who don't just vote to suppress nationalist representation and the are unionists who embrace nationalist representation but find SF hard to take due to their "special " history. Many in the south agree.
What makes me confrontational?
So people complain that the media keep referring to NI politics and Green and Orange... the vast majority of this thread has been the same thing.
The odd post relates to education/jobs/welfare/hospital waiting lists/welbeing/infrastructure/wages/less tax on the poor more tax on the rich....
Dire stuff indeed.. get out and vote so that we can keep themus out!! Anyone who votes based on that is a clampit (IMHO) ;)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2017, 12:38:29 PM
So people complain that the media keep referring to NI politics and Green and Orange... the vast majority of this thread has been the same thing.
The odd post relates to education/jobs/welfare/hospital waiting lists/welbeing/infrastructure/wages/less tax on the poor more tax on the rich....
Dire stuff indeed.. get out and vote so that we can keep themus out!! Anyone who votes based on that is a clampit (IMHO) ;)
It's more nationalism and unionism than green and orange.
Same as if the big issue in the UK being in or out of the union with Europe. Honest to good politics.
green and Orange is used by lazy journalists for easy understanding of a dumb audience.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2017, 12:38:29 PM
So people complain that the media keep referring to NI politics and Green and Orange... the vast majority of this thread has been the same thing.
The odd post relates to education/jobs/welfare/hospital waiting lists/welbeing/infrastructure/wages/less tax on the poor more tax on the rich....
Dire stuff indeed.. get out and vote so that we can keep themus out!! Anyone who votes based on that is a clampit (IMHO) ;)
Not enough people think as you do but many do and more and more all the time. For the time being the entrenched orange and green merchants are the ones more likely to vote.
The real uk government position is not as a shield for unionism but to allow all of us to stew in our own juices until we work it out for ourselves. The senseless green and orange voters are pointlessly delaying us all in the stew
Gerry Adam's face in front of the cameras everyday of the week is pointless, imo, for increasing the nationalist vote and a fillip for the DUP if a re-election is to be won. He is an unnecessary distraction, unless their long game is to disrupt the system and push for direct rule. A risky game to play.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2017, 12:38:29 PM
So people complain that the media keep referring to NI politics and Green and Orange... the vast majority of this thread has been the same thing.
The odd post relates to education/jobs/welfare/hospital waiting lists/welbeing/infrastructure/wages/less tax on the poor more tax on the rich....
Dire stuff indeed.. get out and vote so that we can keep themus out!! Anyone who votes based on that is a clampit (IMHO) ;)
Completely agree.
I think I called it depressing before the election..........after the election I would call it the same old depressing shite.
Usuns v themmuns
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 10, 2017, 12:59:20 PM
Gerry Adam's face in front of the cameras everyday of the week is pointless, imo, for increasing the nationalist vote and a fillip for the DUP if a re-election is to be won. He is an unnecessary distraction, unless their long game is to disrupt the system and push for direct rule. A risky game to play.
As some of the lads have said it could be a direct ploy to have a total carve-up in a snap election where the Unionists come out for the DUP in force (especially with Gerry making headlines today saying a UI is now a possibility!) leaving the UUP in tatters and same for SF and SDLP. SF and DUP simply cannot lose from another election. I think it is a done deal at this stage. However, after the next election someone has to give in as it will still be Arlene in position so is she going to step down when she has her POC back or will SF remove the requirement for her to step aside. I woudl say she would step aside on the basis that an increase in the DUP vote will have "secured the union".
Quote from: LCohen on March 10, 2017, 11:05:56 AM
There are multiple unionist parties because there are multiple strands of unionism. Even the current suite of parties are themselves coalitions (apart from TUV which only comes in one form). Within the UUP vote there are people who could not vote for the DUP brand, or could cosy up to the Simon Hamilton side of the party but not the Edwin Poots side. Alliance would be a big recipient of votes if politicians polarise non-sectarian unionism
I think that DUP recognise that danger. Hence I think they will play a more reasonable card (and as I posted earlier hope that a bit of Shinner arrogance will cause things to run aground with their dealings with Brokenshire) and hope to capture some disaffected UUP to get them back ahead of Shinners.
As Milltown Row2 points out that seems to be what it's all about: no one particularly interested in what policies would make Northern Ireland a better place. If you abide by the adage that you get the politicians you deserve then for the majority it is about Usuns v themmuns
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 10, 2017, 12:59:20 PM
Gerry Adam's face in front of the cameras everyday of the week is pointless, imo, for increasing the nationalist vote and a fillip for the DUP if a re-election is to be won. He is an unnecessary distraction, unless their long game is to disrupt the system and push for direct rule. A risky game to play.
His presence and his comments today convey that Shinners are more interested in bigger things than getting Stormont back running. Grist to Arlene's mill about "radical republican agenda".
If this goes to another election, she will be playing the "I told you so" card.
/Jim.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2017, 12:38:29 PM
So people complain that the media keep referring to NI politics and Green and Orange... the vast majority of this thread has been the same thing.
The odd post relates to education/jobs/welfare/hospital waiting lists/welbeing/infrastructure/wages/less tax on the poor more tax on the rich....
Dire stuff indeed.. get out and vote so that we can keep themus out!! Anyone who votes based on that is a clampit (IMHO) ;)
Valid point but the way most nationalist voted impeded a party that used a veto to over rule any legislation they did not adhere to and used their political powers to line their own pockets at every opportunity
It was bordering on a dictatorship
Do you really think that if SF were in the same position they would act the same
If they did they would lose more of the nationalist electorate than the DUP did
Imagine they have gained 20 odd thousand more votes
It's very much a case of " what do you have to do to get the sack around here"
When it comes to the big two I don't buy this "one is as bad as the other"
I wouldn't describe anyone who tactically voted to over throw the corrupt DUP as clampits
I would describe anyone who voted DUP as An electorate that puts the union before an effcient government that concentrates on what's best for all the people
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 01:42:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2017, 12:38:29 PM
So people complain that the media keep referring to NI politics and Green and Orange... the vast majority of this thread has been the same thing.
The odd post relates to education/jobs/welfare/hospital waiting lists/welbeing/infrastructure/wages/less tax on the poor more tax on the rich....
Dire stuff indeed.. get out and vote so that we can keep themus out!! Anyone who votes based on that is a clampit (IMHO) ;)
Valid point but the way most nationalist voted impeded a party that used a veto to over rule any legislation they did not adhere to and used their political powers to line their own pockets at every opportunity
It was bordering on a dictatorship
Do you really think that if SF were in the same position they would act the same
If they did they would lose more of the nationalist electorate than the DUP did
Imagine they have gained 20 odd thousand more votes
It's very much a case of " what do you have to do to get the sack around here"
When it comes to the big two I don't buy this "one is as bad as the other"
I wouldn't describe anyone who tactically voted to over throw the corrupt DUP as clampits
I would describe anyone who voted DUP as An electorate that puts the union before an effcient government that concentrates on what's best for all the people
SF gave themselves £700k of public money in the "Research Services Ireland" scam so let's not kid ourselves that SF don't like a bit of free money too, at the tax payers expense
Quote from: AQMP on March 10, 2017, 01:43:30 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 10, 2017, 08:56:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 08:54:15 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 10, 2017, 08:43:02 AM
Quote from: Minder on March 09, 2017, 08:36:25 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 09, 2017, 08:33:11 PM
What is the point in another election. Absolute waste of time and money.
Yeah fcuk that, to get the exact same result give or take a seat
Nationalist apathy (like this) could result in a vastly different result. If there is another one, its vital the nationalist vote is even more motivated than at the last one, as the unionist vote will be. If they increase their vote/seats, it will have been a result for them.
Is there any seat when the SDLP and SF could combine to lose the DUP a seat?
Strangford is a possibility for the SDLP if SF were to step down.
The SDLP got nearly all of the SF transfers and still didn't get over the line
Lost by 225, the 240 odd votes that went to Alliance would have been useful, as would the 70 or so that didn't transfer.
Still trying to work out how unity in an stv election is of any use at all if anything it is going to result in a lower unionist turnout so bring it on.
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2017, 09:36:59 AM
Can Apples point out how education would suffer in a UI?
Or welfare seeing as 26 Co rates are much higher than 6 Cos rates?????
As for another election. .... boycott it.
Not saying they would suffer, the perception is that they would not be free at the point of delivery.
Quote from: Minder on March 10, 2017, 01:47:29 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 01:42:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2017, 12:38:29 PM
So people complain that the media keep referring to NI politics and Green and Orange... the vast majority of this thread has been the same thing.
The odd post relates to education/jobs/welfare/hospital waiting lists/welbeing/infrastructure/wages/less tax on the poor more tax on the rich....
Dire stuff indeed.. get out and vote so that we can keep themus out!! Anyone who votes based on that is a clampit (IMHO) ;)
Valid point but the way most nationalist voted impeded a party that used a veto to over rule any legislation they did not adhere to and used their political powers to line their own pockets at every opportunity
It was bordering on a dictatorship
Do you really think that if SF were in the same position they would act the same
If they did they would lose more of the nationalist electorate than the DUP did
Imagine they have gained 20 odd thousand more votes
It's very much a case of " what do you have to do to get the sack around here"
When it comes to the big two I don't buy this "one is as bad as the other"
I wouldn't describe anyone who tactically voted to over throw the corrupt DUP as clampits
I would describe anyone who voted DUP as An electorate that puts the union before an effcient government that concentrates on what's best for all the people
SF gave themselves £700k of public money in the "Research Services Ireland" scam so let's not kid ourselves that SF don't like a bit of free money too, at the tax payers expense
Both parties are as bad as the other - anyone that says different cant see through the tinted glasses.
Alliance, SDLP and strands of UUP are at least looking outside the box - SF & DUP is all about usuns & themmuns as their manifesto's demonstrated
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 01:42:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2017, 12:38:29 PM
So people complain that the media keep referring to NI politics and Green and Orange... the vast majority of this thread has been the same thing.
The odd post relates to education/jobs/welfare/hospital waiting lists/welbeing/infrastructure/wages/less tax on the poor more tax on the rich....
Dire stuff indeed.. get out and vote so that we can keep themus out!! Anyone who votes based on that is a clampit (IMHO) ;)
Valid point but the way most nationalist voted impeded a party that used a veto to over rule any legislation they did not adhere to and used their political powers to line their own pockets at every opportunity
It was bordering on a dictatorship
Do you really think that if SF were in the same position they would act the same
If they did they would lose more of the nationalist electorate than the DUP did
Imagine they have gained 20 odd thousand more votes
It's very much a case of " what do you have to do to get the sack around here"
When it comes to the big two I don't buy this "one is as bad as the other"
I wouldn't describe anyone who tactically voted to over throw the corrupt DUP as clampits
I would describe anyone who voted DUP as An electorate that puts the union before an effcient government that concentrates on what's best for all the people
100% If Sinn Fein behaved the same way, Re. POC card, RHI, Nama etc their vote would be decimated. The last election result was not an endorsement of Sinn Fein policy, it was that Nationalists have had enough of the DUPs staggering disregard for equality and the Irish language stuff was the straw that broke the crocodiles back.
Quote from: HiMucker on March 10, 2017, 02:26:52 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 01:42:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2017, 12:38:29 PM
So people complain that the media keep referring to NI politics and Green and Orange... the vast majority of this thread has been the same thing.
The odd post relates to education/jobs/welfare/hospital waiting lists/welbeing/infrastructure/wages/less tax on the poor more tax on the rich....
Dire stuff indeed.. get out and vote so that we can keep themus out!! Anyone who votes based on that is a clampit (IMHO) ;)
Valid point but the way most nationalist voted impeded a party that used a veto to over rule any legislation they did not adhere to and used their political powers to line their own pockets at every opportunity
It was bordering on a dictatorship
Do you really think that if SF were in the same position they would act the same
If they did they would lose more of the nationalist electorate than the DUP did
Imagine they have gained 20 odd thousand more votes
It's very much a case of " what do you have to do to get the sack around here"
When it comes to the big two I don't buy this "one is as bad as the other"
I wouldn't describe anyone who tactically voted to over throw the corrupt DUP as clampits
I would describe anyone who voted DUP as An electorate that puts the union before an effcient government that concentrates on what's best for all the people
100% If Sinn Fein behaved the same way, Re. POC card, RHI, Nama etc their vote would be decimated. The last election result was not an endorsement of Sinn Fein policy, it was that Nationalists have had enough of the DUPs staggering disregard for equality and the Irish language stuff was the straw that broke the crocodiles back.
The shinners did not give one shite about the Irish language in the south when the Govt pulled the Irish language requirement to get into the Gardi, they fawn all over the foreigners yet they cant seem to stand up for the Irish language, the homeless and the poor.
Quote from: stew on March 10, 2017, 02:36:02 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 10, 2017, 02:26:52 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 01:42:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2017, 12:38:29 PM
So people complain that the media keep referring to NI politics and Green and Orange... the vast majority of this thread has been the same thing.
The odd post relates to education/jobs/welfare/hospital waiting lists/welbeing/infrastructure/wages/less tax on the poor more tax on the rich....
Dire stuff indeed.. get out and vote so that we can keep themus out!! Anyone who votes based on that is a clampit (IMHO) ;)
Valid point but the way most nationalist voted impeded a party that used a veto to over rule any legislation they did not adhere to and used their political powers to line their own pockets at every opportunity
It was bordering on a dictatorship
Do you really think that if SF were in the same position they would act the same
If they did they would lose more of the nationalist electorate than the DUP did
Imagine they have gained 20 odd thousand more votes
It's very much a case of " what do you have to do to get the sack around here"
When it comes to the big two I don't buy this "one is as bad as the other"
I wouldn't describe anyone who tactically voted to over throw the corrupt DUP as clampits
I would describe anyone who voted DUP as An electorate that puts the union before an effcient government that concentrates on what's best for all the people
100% If Sinn Fein behaved the same way, Re. POC card, RHI, Nama etc their vote would be decimated. The last election result was not an endorsement of Sinn Fein policy, it was that Nationalists have had enough of the DUPs staggering disregard for equality and the Irish language stuff was the straw that broke the crocodiles back.
The shinners did not give one shite about the Irish language in the south when the Govt pulled the Irish language requirement to get into the Gardi, they fawn all over the foreigners yet they cant seem to stand up for the Irish language, the homeless and the poor.
Are SF trying to introduce an Irish language requirement to get into the PSNI?
They are standing up for the Irish language in a part of Ireland under British jurisdiction.
The homeless and the poor - what are you on about?
Homeless don't vote, small percentage of the poor vote while the Gaeltacht hasn't many votes.
And of course Stew had to let out the xenophobia.
Try Identity Ireland for that sort of stuff.
Apples, Education is free unless you want to go to a rubby fee paying school.
Quote from: HiMucker on March 10, 2017, 02:26:52 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 01:42:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2017, 12:38:29 PM
So people complain that the media keep referring to NI politics and Green and Orange... the vast majority of this thread has been the same thing.
The odd post relates to education/jobs/welfare/hospital waiting lists/welbeing/infrastructure/wages/less tax on the poor more tax on the rich....
Dire stuff indeed.. get out and vote so that we can keep themus out!! Anyone who votes based on that is a clampit (IMHO) ;)
Valid point but the way most nationalist voted impeded a party that used a veto to over rule any legislation they did not adhere to and used their political powers to line their own pockets at every opportunity
It was bordering on a dictatorship
Do you really think that if SF were in the same position they would act the same
If they did they would lose more of the nationalist electorate than the DUP did
Imagine they have gained 20 odd thousand more votes
It's very much a case of " what do you have to do to get the sack around here"
When it comes to the big two I don't buy this "one is as bad as the other"
I wouldn't describe anyone who tactically voted to over throw the corrupt DUP as clampits
I would describe anyone who voted DUP as An electorate that puts the union before an effcient government that concentrates on what's best for all the people
100% If Sinn Fein behaved the same way, Re. POC card, RHI, Nama etc their vote would be decimated. The last election result was not an endorsement of Sinn Fein policy, it was that Nationalists have had enough of the DUPs staggering disregard for equality and the Irish language stuff was the straw that broke the crocodiles back.
So if thats the case where have i seen SF reference on what ive posted in their election talks?
education/jobs/welfare/hospital waiting lists/welbeing/infrastructure/wages/less tax on the poor more tax on the rich.... Add in homeless, poor housing etc ......
Joint power with the DUP has brought none of this, while they argue over Irish language ... and I'm sorry to burst your bubble but for me personally and for the vast majority of nationalists that dont speak a word of it, its a stupid straw to break any crocodiles back while we've all the problems going on as mentioned
I think if you are happy to see Irish culture placed on par with Polish then you are a Nationalist in any meaningful way. Which does not justify the general uselessness of SF
The Irish Language act only became an issue for SF when Paul Givan ended/"couldn't find" the £50k funding. How many Programmes for Government have SF & DUP signed up for without an Irish Language act?
It was a penalty kick for SF and they where right to make political capital out of it but let's not kid ourselves, they where happy enough to kick it down the road beforehand
Quote from: Minder on March 10, 2017, 03:42:59 PM
The Irish Language act only became an issue when Paul Givan ended/"couldn't find" the £50k funding. How many Programmes for Government have SF & DUP signed up for without an Irish Language act?
And how much did the election cost?
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 03:47:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 10, 2017, 03:42:59 PM
The Irish Language act only became an issue when Paul Givan ended/"couldn't find" the £50k funding. How many Programmes for Government have SF & DUP signed up for without an Irish Language act?
And how much did the election cost?
Wouldn't have cost anything if fister would have stepped down and her party would still have petition of concern
SDLP want her to step aside as well and rightly so
Shinners will always have some bashers and some of the criticism justified but to say they are no better than DUP i find laughable
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 09, 2017, 09:32:02 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 09, 2017, 08:36:25 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 09, 2017, 08:33:11 PM
What is the point in another election. Absolute waste of time and money.
Yeah fcuk that, to get the exact same result give or take a seat
Westminster has pinned their colours, its two fingers up to the nationalist electorate
Last weeks election was about the Rottweiler stepping aside or am I missing something
DUP must want another election when they backed her after this week
They came out in the first round and got a bloody nose but didn't get knocked out
Now they want to reload (with the UUP in their corner this time) and come out in round 2 swinging and get back POC because they are control freaks
There will be no crocodile insults this time to get our ganders up as they have to have learned something
We have to that ourselves
It's a sh.te state of affairs but there's not point in voting last week and not going again this time
How many here think SF should fold and let go why we voted in the first place
Exactly, I guess the reason the aul sour puss was aff for a couple of days ago was because her rotten self and the little englander scrote had agreed the best way forward was to stick it to the croppies and have another election ... thats why they were all so glowing acouple of days ago after what was a pitiful result for them ... The brits try and shaft us at every feckin opportunity ... the Nationalist people should not stand for this sh1t and should "hopefully" come out in en masse .... It could only happen here ffs ::)
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 05:08:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 03:47:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 10, 2017, 03:42:59 PM
The Irish Language act only became an issue when Paul Givan ended/"couldn't find" the £50k funding. How many Programmes for Government have SF & DUP signed up for without an Irish Language act?
And how much did the election cost?
Wouldn't have cost anything if fister would have stepped down and her party would still have petition of concern
SDLP want her to step aside as well and rightly so
Shinners will always have some bashers and some of the criticism justified but to say they are no better than DUP i find laughable
No fan of the DUP myself, but the SF mantra about Respect, Integrity etc is a bit hard to swallow when you consider what the Republican movement was up to not too long ago. Granted we should try to look forward, but the whiter than white impression taht they try to project is a bit OTT / hard to take.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on March 10, 2017, 10:16:56 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 09, 2017, 03:43:59 PM
Quote from: AQMP on March 09, 2017, 01:48:37 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on March 09, 2017, 01:31:04 PM
Is Brokenshire offering another election to help out his mates in the DUP? Could be worth £5m of our money to him and the DUP?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-39218555 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-39218555)
Depends if there's enough time for a DUP/UUP pact! I can't see another election solving much...Prods turn out to regain supremacy, Taigs turn out as they're in with a sniff of being in the driving seat. As you were? If there's no agreement after that, is there a 3rd election??
Brokenshire comes across as a little Englander knobend who knows nor cares anything about this place, but its a cabinet post to further his career.
Arlene has done a few interviews where she has hinted that DUP might nominate someone else as FM. I think she is playing a game of bluff here. She is banking on Brokenshire and Shinners not coming to an agreement on legacy inquiries, the thing breaking down and going into fresh election saying she offered to stand aside but it wasn't enough for the crocodile.
/Jim.
Yeah, theyve stitched this one up between them .. Perfidious Albion ::)
All the Nationalist community weren't up to things not that long ago.
The DUP hadn't much respect for them either.
Brokenshite is some bolx if the best he can do is have another election.
SF SDLP Alliance Greens should simply boycott it if he goes ahead.
Quote from: LCohen on March 10, 2017, 11:05:56 AM
There are multiple unionist parties because there are multiple strands of unionism. Even the current suite of parties are themselves coalitions (apart from TUV which only comes in one form). Within the UUP vote there are people who could not vote for the DUP brand, or could cosy up to the Simon Hamilton side of the party but not the Edwin Poots side. Alliance would be a big recipient of votes if politicians polarise non-sectarian unionism
Hopefully .. my faith in mankind would be partially restored :P
Quote from: michaelg on March 10, 2017, 05:18:20 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 05:08:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 03:47:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 10, 2017, 03:42:59 PM
The Irish Language act only became an issue when Paul Givan ended/"couldn't find" the £50k funding. How many Programmes for Government have SF & DUP signed up for without an Irish Language act?
And how much did the election cost?
Wouldn't have cost anything if fister would have stepped down and her party would still have petition of concern
SDLP want her to step aside as well and rightly so
Shinners will always have some bashers and some of the criticism justified but to say they are no better than DUP i find laughable
No fan of the DUP myself, but the SF mantra about Respect, Integrity etc is a bit hard to swallow when you consider what the Republican movement was up to not too long ago. Granted we should try to look forward, but the whiter than white impression taht they try to project is a bit OTT / hard to take.
Well until an Irish version of ghandl comes along I don't know any party that's gonna challenge the DUP regime with the moral ethics required to some on here
I never supported SF when they were connected with the recent times you mentioned
But Mc Guinness walking out and refusing to work with them to they get their house in order was more than any other party done and a move that commanded my respect
Lesser of the two evils all day long in my view
If your looking for conventional politics you where born in the wrong place
DUP and their precious POC so they can delegate against minorities is not my idea of power sharing
Quote from: vallankumous on March 10, 2017, 12:24:39 PM
Quote from: naka on March 10, 2017, 12:03:30 PM
actually think that SF should not have pushed the end of unionist domination point, subtly they should have pushed shared future, working together etc
then appeal to sdlp supporters that they need a bigger mandate to push the equality points etc
the way it is going they are now portrayed as the boogeyman and its playing into the united unionism hands
if we don't stick together you will be frog marched into a united Ireland
Yes, I think you're right.
It's very difficult to do though. It was a major talking point among journalists and very hard to play down a victory. it could back fire now though.
Unionists could seek another election and their only target is one or two more seats and it's a victory. it's easy to see where unionism went wrong in this election but it's not easy to see where nationalism went right. If SF bringing down Stromont was a boost to them, they've played that card. It's impossible to know if the nationalist community are angry. They had their vote and got a result. Is that anger still there? Have the DUP been punished enough?
You seen with the reaction to FF after the economy went tits up, the electorate felt they'd punished them enough very soon after that. Also, with the loss of the majority and the veto and the widely accepted fact that nesbitt made a mistake, it's hard to see Unionism transfer across as much in a new election.
If the Brits & Unionists collude (there's something we never thought of ::) ) re another election because the last one didnt suit them, then the Nationalists "should" be very very angry indeed .. how would we not be ... I would be totally gobsmacked if the nationalist vote didnt respond ..
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 05:37:23 PM
Quote from: michaelg on March 10, 2017, 05:18:20 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 05:08:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 03:47:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 10, 2017, 03:42:59 PM
The Irish Language act only became an issue when Paul Givan ended/"couldn't find" the £50k funding. How many Programmes for Government have SF & DUP signed up for without an Irish Language act?
And how much did the election cost?
Wouldn't have cost anything if fister would have stepped down and her party would still have petition of concern
SDLP want her to step aside as well and rightly so
Shinners will always have some bashers and some of the criticism justified but to say they are no better than DUP i find laughable
No fan of the DUP myself, but the SF mantra about Respect, Integrity etc is a bit hard to swallow when you consider what the Republican movement was up to not too long ago. Granted we should try to look forward, but the whiter than white impression taht they try to project is a bit OTT / hard to take.
Well until an Irish version of ghandl comes along I don't know any party that's gonna challenge the DUP regime with the moral ethics required to some on here
I never supported SF when they were connected with the recent times you mentioned
But Mc Guinness walking out and refusing to work with them to they get their house in order was more than any other party done and a move that commanded my respect
Lesser of the two evils all day long in my view
If your looking for conventional politics you where born in the wrong place
DUP and their precious POC so they can delegate against minorities is not my idea of power sharing
Good post. Couldn't agree more about the POC. Excuse my ignorance, but how could the POC be removed? Could its removal be included in any new agreement reached?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2017, 12:38:29 PM
So people complain that the media keep referring to NI politics and Green and Orange... the vast majority of this thread has been the same thing.
The odd post relates to education/jobs/welfare/hospital waiting lists/welbeing/infrastructure/wages/less tax on the poor more tax on the rich....
Dire stuff indeed.. get out and vote so that we can keep themus out!! Anyone who votes based on that is a clampit (IMHO) ;)
You are basically saying that the DUP & Sf are exactly the same ... Yet again that is simply not true ... SF weren't involved in "any" of the scandals (dont need to list them again) and even bent over backwards to keep big arnie in position .. but her intransigence, arrogance and just basic bitterness wouldnt allow her (them) to admit to it and take the necessary steps that would have to be taken in any other modern society..
And if the DUP, UUP & TUV etc.. want to dredge up the past and hold their noses etc.. why dont they do the same with all the loyalists they constantly have no issues associating with .. why dont the Orange Order have any issues with them either .. It also shouldnt need pointing out to them that Sf have moved a long long way and they ALL knew the legacy issues when they signed up to this but they just keep bringing us back .. Mind you, considering they seem to deny agreements that were made or renege on them at will seems to be par for the course for them..
EDIT - The DUP & Tory's didnt like the result so may well force another election .. Babies spitting the dummy out comes to mind ..
FFS the lovely uber DUP man Jim Allister basically said on radio yesterday that Stormont should be shut down for ever now as themuns are getting too close to a majority .. its like one football team beating another team for 100 years straight, getting all the prizes etc.. and then when the other team has the downright audacity of getting a draw (a bloody draw for christs sake ::) ) the first team huffs and says we're not playing you anymore, (cause ye might bate us >:( ) ... its feckin rediculous .. how do you do proper politics with a shower like that ?Both sides are NOT the same and I have no problem voting for SF as long as they dont start behaving like the DUP .. then I would change immediately ..
The DUP & BrokenPromises have cobbled together what they think is a solution to their problems .. we end up getting trod upon yet again..
I sincerely hope it doesnt work out for them and if Im a clampit for getting p1ssed off the DUP then I hope to God Im not alone
(I do wish Adams would stay the feck off the TV though)
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 05:37:23 PM
Quote from: michaelg on March 10, 2017, 05:18:20 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 05:08:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 03:47:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 10, 2017, 03:42:59 PM
The Irish Language act only became an issue when Paul Givan ended/"couldn't find" the £50k funding. How many Programmes for Government have SF & DUP signed up for without an Irish Language act?
And how much did the election cost?
Wouldn't have cost anything if fister would have stepped down and her party would still have petition of concern
SDLP want her to step aside as well and rightly so
Shinners will always have some bashers and some of the criticism justified but to say they are no better than DUP i find laughable
No fan of the DUP myself, but the SF mantra about Respect, Integrity etc is a bit hard to swallow when you consider what the Republican movement was up to not too long ago. Granted we should try to look forward, but the whiter than white impression taht they try to project is a bit OTT / hard to take.
Well until an Irish version of ghandl comes along I don't know any party that's gonna challenge the DUP regime with the moral ethics required to some on here
I never supported SF when they were connected with the recent times you mentioned
But Mc Guinness walking out and refusing to work with them to they get their house in order was more than any other party done and a move that commanded my respect
Lesser of the two evils all day long in my view
If your looking for conventional politics you where born in the wrong place
DUP and their precious POC so they can delegate against minorities is not my idea of power sharing
Agree with that 100% ..
Quote from: michaelg on March 10, 2017, 05:53:29 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 05:37:23 PM
Quote from: michaelg on March 10, 2017, 05:18:20 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 05:08:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 03:47:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 10, 2017, 03:42:59 PM
The Irish Language act only became an issue when Paul Givan ended/"couldn't find" the £50k funding. How many Programmes for Government have SF & DUP signed up for without an Irish Language act?
And how much did the election cost?
Wouldn't have cost anything if fister would have stepped down and her party would still have petition of concern
SDLP want her to step aside as well and rightly so
Shinners will always have some bashers and some of the criticism justified but to say they are no better than DUP i find laughable
No fan of the DUP myself, but the SF mantra about Respect, Integrity etc is a bit hard to swallow when you consider what the Republican movement was up to not too long ago. Granted we should try to look forward, but the whiter than white impression taht they try to project is a bit OTT / hard to take.
Well until an Irish version of ghandl comes along I don't know any party that's gonna challenge the DUP regime with the moral ethics required to some on here
I never supported SF when they were connected with the recent times you mentioned
But Mc Guinness walking out and refusing to work with them to they get their house in order was more than any other party done and a move that commanded my respect
Lesser of the two evils all day long in my view
If your looking for conventional politics you where born in the wrong place
DUP and their precious POC so they can delegate against minorities is not my idea of power sharing
Good post. Couldn't agree more about the POC. Excuse my ignorance, but how could the POC be removed? Could its removal be included in any new agreement reached?
It cant be removed, or at least it shouldnt .. its a very good thing when operated in its correct terms as it protects minorities ,,, it was never intended for the way the DUP abuse it .. i.e. Protecting (allegedly ::)) Corrupt DUP ministers & SPADs or vetoing any little thing that they dont 100% agree with like same sex marriage etc...
Maybe the terms of it can be altered to prohibit its abuse..
The POC needs to be retained to prevent abuse of power by the majority over any number of minorities. But it should not be a veto, rather a protest which allows the decision to adjudicated upon by a higher authority. Possibly a British/Irish Judicial Council.
Quote from: Rossfan on March 10, 2017, 03:07:48 PM
Homeless don't vote, small percentage of the poor vote while the Gaeltacht hasn't many votes.
And of course Stew had to let out the xenophobia.
Try Identity Ireland for that sort of stuff.
Apples, Education is free unless you want to go to a rubby fee paying school.
Can you read? I did not say these were my concerns, nor did I say they were based on fact. But some so called nationalists have issues surrounding the provision of these and other benefits in a UI.
They're living in the 60s still :-[
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 10, 2017, 06:18:28 PM
Quote from: michaelg on March 10, 2017, 05:53:29 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 05:37:23 PM
Quote from: michaelg on March 10, 2017, 05:18:20 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 10, 2017, 05:08:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 10, 2017, 03:47:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on March 10, 2017, 03:42:59 PM
The Irish Language act only became an issue when Paul Givan ended/"couldn't find" the £50k funding. How many Programmes for Government have SF & DUP signed up for without an Irish Language act?
And how much did the election cost?
Wouldn't have cost anything if fister would have stepped down and her party would still have petition of concern
SDLP want her to step aside as well and rightly so
Shinners will always have some bashers and some of the criticism justified but to say they are no better than DUP i find laughable
No fan of the DUP myself, but the SF mantra about Respect, Integrity etc is a bit hard to swallow when you consider what the Republican movement was up to not too long ago. Granted we should try to look forward, but the whiter than white impression taht they try to project is a bit OTT / hard to take.
Well until an Irish version of ghandl comes along I don't know any party that's gonna challenge the DUP regime with the moral ethics required to some on here
I never supported SF when they were connected with the recent times you mentioned
But Mc Guinness walking out and refusing to work with them to they get their house in order was more than any other party done and a move that commanded my respect
Lesser of the two evils all day long in my view
If your looking for conventional politics you where born in the wrong place
DUP and their precious POC so they can delegate against minorities is not my idea of power sharing
Good post. Couldn't agree more about the POC. Excuse my ignorance, but how could the POC be removed? Could its removal be included in any new agreement reached?
It cant be removed, or at least it shouldnt .. its a very good thing when operated in its correct terms as it protects minorities ,,, it was never intended for the way the DUP abuse it .. i.e. Protecting (allegedly ::)) Corrupt DUP ministers & SPADs or vetoing any little thing that they dont 100% agree with like same sex marriage etc...
Maybe the terms of it can be altered to prohibit its abuse..
A lot of the GFA Stormont mechanisms are out of date given the demographics and the unionist capacity to do a reverse ferret for the sake of power.
NI doesnt need guaranteed cabinet seats for everyone. It can tolerate an opposition. It needs one now anyway because of Brexit.
1998 or whenever is a different world. Back then SF was a pariah . The mechanisms were set up to allow it to share it in power as a minority a long way from the scale of unionism.
Two things have changed.
All the "principled" Ulster Unionists like Foster and Donaldson who left the party over SF ended up.working with them in the DUP. And the main unionist party is barely bigger than SF now. The conditions that allowed the Unionists to run a caste system no longer exist.
Stormont is stuck in a time warp.
Quote from: Windmill abu on March 11, 2017, 12:13:58 AM
The POC needs to be retained to prevent abuse of power by the majority over any number of minorities. But it should not be a veto, rather a protest which allows the decision to adjudicated upon by a higher authority. Possibly a British/Irish Judicial Council.
Thats exactly what is needed, another bloody quango!
When the politicians from both sides enter puberty there may be progress but for the time being they can continue breastfeeding from their Westminster mammy
Quote from: Windmill abu on March 11, 2017, 12:13:58 AM
The POC needs to be retained to prevent abuse of power by the majority over any number of minorities. But it should not be a veto, rather a protest which allows the decision to adjudicated upon by a higher authority. Possibly a British/Irish Judicial Council.
Yup, I see merit in that arrangement as long as both the British and Irish were involved in the process.
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 10, 2017, 06:01:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2017, 12:38:29 PM
So people complain that the media keep referring to NI politics and Green and Orange... the vast majority of this thread has been the same thing.
The odd post relates to education/jobs/welfare/hospital waiting lists/welbeing/infrastructure/wages/less tax on the poor more tax on the rich....
Dire stuff indeed.. get out and vote so that we can keep themus out!! Anyone who votes based on that is a clampit (IMHO) ;)
You are basically saying that the DUP & Sf are exactly the same ... Yet again that is simply not true ... SF weren't involved in "any" of the scandals (dont need to list them again) and even bent over backwards to keep big arnie in position .. but her intransigence, arrogance and just basic bitterness wouldnt allow her (them) to admit to it and take the necessary steps that would have to be taken in any other modern society..
And if the DUP, UUP & TUV etc.. want to dredge up the past and hold their noses etc.. why dont they do the same with all the loyalists they constantly have no issues associating with .. why dont the Orange Order have any issues with them either .. It also shouldnt need pointing out to them that Sf have moved a long long way and they ALL knew the legacy issues when they signed up to this but they just keep bringing us back .. Mind you, considering they seem to deny agreements that were made or renege on them at will seems to be par for the course for them..
EDIT - The DUP & Tory's didnt like the result so may well force another election .. Babies spitting the dummy out comes to mind ..
FFS the lovely uber DUP man Jim Allister basically said on radio yesterday that Stormont should be shut down for ever now as themuns are getting too close to a majority .. its like one football team beating another team for 100 years straight, getting all the prizes etc.. and then when the other team has the downright audacity of getting a draw (a bloody draw for christs sake ::) ) the first team huffs and says we're not playing you anymore, (cause ye might bate us >:( ) ... its feckin rediculous .. how do you do proper politics with a shower like that ?
Both sides are NOT the same and I have no problem voting for SF as long as they dont start behaving like the DUP .. then I would change immediately ..
The DUP & BrokenPromises have cobbled together what they think is a solution to their problems .. we end up getting trod upon yet again..
I sincerely hope it doesnt work out for them and if Im a clampit for getting p1ssed off the DUP then I hope to God Im not alone
(I do wish Adams would stay the feck off the TV though)
I said nothing of the sort! I'm basically saying that I've not heard one proper policy from either crowd on the things I've mentioned... now in your twisted logic if that makes them the same then grand..
Give me a party that will tackle the main issues as that's what really matters
When they were in government houses, schools, roads etc were built and maintained, a new major health strategy was drawn up, the vulnerable were protected through NI specific changes to the welfare reform measures. Is that not enough to be getting on with.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 11, 2017, 01:54:42 PM
When they were in government houses, schools, roads etc were built and maintained, a new major health strategy was drawn up, the vulnerable were protected through NI specific changes to the welfare reform measures. Is that not enough to be getting on with.
So you're satisfied with how our politicians have performed then? Good man
Very poor form
Meanwhile back on the mainland there is real rage over the budget and tax increases .
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/
Brits have no idea how bad the UK economy is.
Brexit is supposed to be risk free. And it won't be
Well such is life. Your vanity persuaded you to post what you did. So therefore it was this, or your stupidity that helped reveal your identity. To go back to some of your points, under devolution schools, roads and houses have been built. Free prescriptions came in post devolution but I may be wrong, check it out and come back
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 12, 2017, 01:13:46 AM
Well such is life. Your vanity persuaded you to post what you did. So therefore it was this, or your stupidity that helped reveal your identity. To go back to some of your points, under devolution schools, roads and houses have been built. Free prescriptions came in post devolution but I may be wrong, check it out and come back
I really don't understand how anyone can put forward free prescription charges as a success. A populist decision which costs millions to fill up every cupboard in the count with drugs, sun cream, calpol and the likes. The money wasted would much used elsewhere in the health system.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 12, 2017, 01:13:46 AM
Well such is life. Your vanity persuaded you to post what you did. So therefore it was this, or your stupidity that helped reveal your identity. To go back to some of your points, under devolution schools, roads and houses have been built. Free prescriptions came in post devolution but I may be wrong, check it out and come back
Read that and tell us how free prescriptions for all is a resounding success.
http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/bill-for-free-prescriptions-soars-to-440m-in-northern-ireland-35316018.html (http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/bill-for-free-prescriptions-soars-to-440m-in-northern-ireland-35316018.html)
Free prescriptions was one of a list of things I set out. About 3 or 4 here disagreed with that, but that's not the issue. You said that they'd been introduced before devolution, so are you now admitting you were wrong?
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 12, 2017, 12:18:45 PM
Free prescriptions was one of a list of things I set out. About 3 or 4 here disagreed with that, but that's not the issue. You said that they'd been introduced before devolution, so are you now admitting you were wrong?
Free prescriptions has been here for as along as I can remember and I'm 45!! There was one period were they put a charge of 2.50 I think and it lasted a year? So which devolution you talking about ?? Now show me different
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 12, 2017, 12:18:45 PM
Free prescriptions was one of a list of things I set out. About 3 or 4 here disagreed with that, but that's not the issue. You said that they'd been introduced before devolution, so are you now admitting you were wrong?
Free prescriptions has been here for as along as I can remember (well for people on the dole) and I'm 45!! There was one period were they put a charge of 2.50 I think and it lasted a year? So which devolution you talking about ??
£440 million in ni alone is lost on free prescriptions
I think you'll find they were introduced in Aprio 2010 by Michael McGimpsey. To be honest if I was you I'd quit while I was behind.
Prescription charges were abolished in Northern Ireland in 2010 for all patients and not just the spongers as had been the case until then.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2017, 01:18:39 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 10, 2017, 06:01:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2017, 12:38:29 PM
So people complain that the media keep referring to NI politics and Green and Orange... the vast majority of this thread has been the same thing.
The odd post relates to education/jobs/welfare/hospital waiting lists/welbeing/infrastructure/wages/less tax on the poor more tax on the rich....
Dire stuff indeed.. get out and vote so that we can keep themus out!! Anyone who votes based on that is a clampit (IMHO) ;)
You are basically saying that the DUP & Sf are exactly the same ... Yet again that is simply not true ... SF weren't involved in "any" of the scandals (dont need to list them again) and even bent over backwards to keep big arnie in position .. but her intransigence, arrogance and just basic bitterness wouldnt allow her (them) to admit to it and take the necessary steps that would have to be taken in any other modern society..
And if the DUP, UUP & TUV etc.. want to dredge up the past and hold their noses etc.. why dont they do the same with all the loyalists they constantly have no issues associating with .. why dont the Orange Order have any issues with them either .. It also shouldnt need pointing out to them that Sf have moved a long long way and they ALL knew the legacy issues when they signed up to this but they just keep bringing us back .. Mind you, considering they seem to deny agreements that were made or renege on them at will seems to be par for the course for them..
EDIT - The DUP & Tory's didnt like the result so may well force another election .. Babies spitting the dummy out comes to mind ..
FFS the lovely uber DUP man Jim Allister basically said on radio yesterday that Stormont should be shut down for ever now as themuns are getting too close to a majority .. its like one football team beating another team for 100 years straight, getting all the prizes etc.. and then when the other team has the downright audacity of getting a draw (a bloody draw for christs sake ::) ) the first team huffs and says we're not playing you anymore, (cause ye might bate us >:( ) ... its feckin rediculous .. how do you do proper politics with a shower like that ?
Both sides are NOT the same and I have no problem voting for SF as long as they dont start behaving like the DUP .. then I would change immediately ..
The DUP & BrokenPromises have cobbled together what they think is a solution to their problems .. we end up getting trod upon yet again..
I sincerely hope it doesnt work out for them and if Im a clampit for getting p1ssed off the DUP then I hope to God Im not alone
(I do wish Adams would stay the feck off the TV though)
I said nothing of the sort! I'm basically saying that I've not heard one proper policy from either crowd on the things I've mentioned... now in your twisted logic if that makes them the same then grand..
Give me a party that will tackle the main issues as that's what really matters
Well its certainly what you are implying ... and I quote
"Dire stuff indeed.. get out and vote so that we can keep themus out!! Anyone who votes based on that is a clampit"what would you call that ? ... I doubt its "Twisted Logic" as you say..
You cant do normal politics with this crowd... I would have thought that was pretty obvious..
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 13, 2017, 12:02:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2017, 01:18:39 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 10, 2017, 06:01:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2017, 12:38:29 PM
So people complain that the media keep referring to NI politics and Green and Orange... the vast majority of this thread has been the same thing.
The odd post relates to education/jobs/welfare/hospital waiting lists/welbeing/infrastructure/wages/less tax on the poor more tax on the rich....
Dire stuff indeed.. get out and vote so that we can keep themus out!! Anyone who votes based on that is a clampit (IMHO) ;)
You are basically saying that the DUP & Sf are exactly the same ... Yet again that is simply not true ... SF weren't involved in "any" of the scandals (dont need to list them again) and even bent over backwards to keep big arnie in position .. but her intransigence, arrogance and just basic bitterness wouldnt allow her (them) to admit to it and take the necessary steps that would have to be taken in any other modern society..
And if the DUP, UUP & TUV etc.. want to dredge up the past and hold their noses etc.. why dont they do the same with all the loyalists they constantly have no issues associating with .. why dont the Orange Order have any issues with them either .. It also shouldnt need pointing out to them that Sf have moved a long long way and they ALL knew the legacy issues when they signed up to this but they just keep bringing us back .. Mind you, considering they seem to deny agreements that were made or renege on them at will seems to be par for the course for them..
EDIT - The DUP & Tory's didnt like the result so may well force another election .. Babies spitting the dummy out comes to mind ..
FFS the lovely uber DUP man Jim Allister basically said on radio yesterday that Stormont should be shut down for ever now as themuns are getting too close to a majority .. its like one football team beating another team for 100 years straight, getting all the prizes etc.. and then when the other team has the downright audacity of getting a draw (a bloody draw for christs sake ::) ) the first team huffs and says we're not playing you anymore, (cause ye might bate us >:( ) ... its feckin rediculous .. how do you do proper politics with a shower like that ?
Both sides are NOT the same and I have no problem voting for SF as long as they dont start behaving like the DUP .. then I would change immediately ..
The DUP & BrokenPromises have cobbled together what they think is a solution to their problems .. we end up getting trod upon yet again..
I sincerely hope it doesnt work out for them and if Im a clampit for getting p1ssed off the DUP then I hope to God Im not alone
(I do wish Adams would stay the feck off the TV though)
I said nothing of the sort! I'm basically saying that I've not heard one proper policy from either crowd on the things I've mentioned... now in your twisted logic if that makes them the same then grand..
Give me a party that will tackle the main issues as that's what really matters
Well its certainly what you are implying ... and I quote "Dire stuff indeed.. get out and vote so that we can keep themus out!! Anyone who votes based on that is a clampit"
what would you call that ? ... I doubt its "Twisted Logic" as you say..
You cant do normal politics with this crowd... I would have thought that was pretty obvious..
It depends on what you mean scandals with SF... again ive yet to see read or hear of normal politics from either crowd...
so you cant do normal politics with this crowd so do what then? if ya cant beat them join them??
It is dire stuff, and even more so if the public waste more money on voting again, while not laying blame on SF for that fiasco its still more tax payers money being wasted
Hmmmm, this could get interesting ...
Wee Jimmy Krankie calling for another referendum :)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39255181
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 13, 2017, 12:51:32 PM
Hmmmm, this could get interesting ...
Wee Jimmy Krankie calling for another referendum :)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39255181
Will be beaten on the economic argument alone. Oil is now fully recognised to be a major declining asset. Without Oil, Scotland has little to offer as an economic base. It will be out of the EU as part of the UK and won't be straight back in again. A second defeat will signal a decline in the nationalist vote and control of the parliament.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on March 13, 2017, 01:23:55 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 13, 2017, 12:51:32 PM
Hmmmm, this could get interesting ...
Wee Jimmy Krankie calling for another referendum :)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39255181
Will be beaten on the economic argument alone. Oil is now fully recognised to be a major declining asset. Without Oil, Scotland has little to offer as an economic base. It will be out of the EU as part of the UK and won't be straight back in again. A second defeat will signal a decline in the nationalist vote and control of the parliament.
Theres still plenty of oil left in the North Sea (+ they are still finding more) and they continuously come up with new solutions to get more of it out ... but saying that, the Scots may still be a bit afraid of leaving the UK but you never know ......
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-39255264
This really makes my blood boil. Themmuns on the hill should have their salary frozen and direct it towards this vital charity!
Did you read the piece? Its a good headline, but doesn't seem to bear any relation whatsoever to the story ::)
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 13, 2017, 02:05:00 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-39255264
This really makes my blood boil. Themmuns on the hill should have their salary frozen and direct it towards this vital charity!
Ministers were paid and in post until 10 pm on 2nd March 2017 including the allegedly supportive Foster. Not sure if it is the responsibility of Health or Communities but either of them in concert with the other ministers could have decided that the pilot would be extended for another year as an interim measure to ensure continuity of care. Therefore, this shows that they ALL care more about their parties and political allegiances than the people they are meant to serve. Service is not part of their thoughts.
Do you know why the pilot wasn't extended?
Wee Jimmy Krankie calling for a referendum could just be to put pressure on the Tories to slow the feck down a minute and maybe listen to the Scottish, and others' desire to have a softer exit .. or for special consideration for Scotland .. and fair play to her if she is.
I think the talk of the referendum actually happening in 2018/19 would leave time for the Scots to see exactly how Brexit is working out and if its not to their liking they might just vote to leave ..
Its a game changer for them and us over here too if that happens..
What happens if the Scottish parliament votes for the referendum but May refuses, surely the Jocks would just tell her to feck off and have one anyway.. Will May then send in the troops and have Wee Jimmy hung drawn & quartered for treason ::) lol
'No NI stations for Irish elections', warn unionists
Oh dear God .. I see the lovely Tom Elliot is raging ... How sad and pathetic is this .. ::) FFS
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39254792
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 13, 2017, 05:17:52 PM
'No NI stations for Irish elections', warn unionists
Oh dear God .. I see the lovely Tom Elliot is raging ... How sad and pathetic is this .. ::) FFS
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39254792
Elliot is a gimp, as usual. Will he be preventing people voting for the US president at the US consulate?
meanwhile, Theresa May has accused the SNP of having "tunnel vision"!
Quote from: armaghniac on March 13, 2017, 05:37:35 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 13, 2017, 05:17:52 PM
'No NI stations for Irish elections', warn unionists
Oh dear God .. I see the lovely Tom Elliot is raging ... How sad and pathetic is this .. ::) FFS
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39254792
Elliot is a gimp, as usual. Will he be preventing people voting for the US president at the US consulate?
meanwhile, Theresa May has accused the SNP of having "tunnel vision"!
She accused the SNP of being divisive
"Those who still believe Britain has made a mistake in leaving the EU are just patronising members of a liberal metropolitan elite,"
"If you believe you are a citizen of the world, you are a citizen of nowhere"
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 13, 2017, 02:05:00 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-39255264
This really makes my blood boil. Themmuns on the hill should have their salary frozen and direct it towards this vital charity!
Will someone please think of the children?
Quote from: haranguerer on March 13, 2017, 04:52:10 PM
Do you know why the pilot wasn't extended?
The pilot had completed its term. It needed to be reviewed and considered for roll out to the whole system. This should have been on-going by civil servants with reports to minister to ensure continuity of service and a costing of the system wide approach.
Knowing from early January that the assembly was about to dissolve and perhaps not return in time to extend the pilot to being a more permanent service then a minister who cared and was interested in the people would have put in place an interim measure and funding for it beyond the his/her tenure of 10 pm on 2nd March 2017.
The reasons for this failure could be many fold but putting party ahead of people is a major element.
The disgrace now is Foster trying to make capital of the failure to ensure that the scheme does not fold with loss of service and 47 jobs.
The aim of any pilot is to try something innovative and if it works then mainstream it. It would seem, however, that this pilot is now ending and they are now going to look to see how they can apply what has been learned from it into current provision. That will take time and an interim extension of 12 months for the pilot to allow for the new arrangements to be implemented would have seemed to have been a sensible approach. Problem is that the Civil Service is run by accountants and people who operate in silos therefore because the savings are possibly being made in other Departments counts for nothing if the funding department is not getting a return
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2017, 12:29:29 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 13, 2017, 12:02:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2017, 01:18:39 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 10, 2017, 06:01:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2017, 12:38:29 PM
So people complain that the media keep referring to NI politics and Green and Orange... the vast majority of this thread has been the same thing.
The odd post relates to education/jobs/welfare/hospital waiting lists/welbeing/infrastructure/wages/less tax on the poor more tax on the rich....
Dire stuff indeed.. get out and vote so that we can keep themus out!! Anyone who votes based on that is a clampit (IMHO) ;)
You are basically saying that the DUP & Sf are exactly the same ... Yet again that is simply not true ... SF weren't involved in "any" of the scandals (dont need to list them again) and even bent over backwards to keep big arnie in position .. but her intransigence, arrogance and just basic bitterness wouldnt allow her (them) to admit to it and take the necessary steps that would have to be taken in any other modern society..
And if the DUP, UUP & TUV etc.. want to dredge up the past and hold their noses etc.. why dont they do the same with all the loyalists they constantly have no issues associating with .. why dont the Orange Order have any issues with them either .. It also shouldnt need pointing out to them that Sf have moved a long long way and they ALL knew the legacy issues when they signed up to this but they just keep bringing us back .. Mind you, considering they seem to deny agreements that were made or renege on them at will seems to be par for the course for them..
EDIT - The DUP & Tory's didnt like the result so may well force another election .. Babies spitting the dummy out comes to mind ..
FFS the lovely uber DUP man Jim Allister basically said on radio yesterday that Stormont should be shut down for ever now as themuns are getting too close to a majority .. its like one football team beating another team for 100 years straight, getting all the prizes etc.. and then when the other team has the downright audacity of getting a draw (a bloody draw for christs sake ::) ) the first team huffs and says we're not playing you anymore, (cause ye might bate us >:( ) ... its feckin rediculous .. how do you do proper politics with a shower like that ?
Both sides are NOT the same and I have no problem voting for SF as long as they dont start behaving like the DUP .. then I would change immediately ..
The DUP & BrokenPromises have cobbled together what they think is a solution to their problems .. we end up getting trod upon yet again..
I sincerely hope it doesnt work out for them and if Im a clampit for getting p1ssed off the DUP then I hope to God Im not alone
(I do wish Adams would stay the feck off the TV though)
I said nothing of the sort! I'm basically saying that I've not heard one proper policy from either crowd on the things I've mentioned... now in your twisted logic if that makes them the same then grand..
Give me a party that will tackle the main issues as that's what really matters
Well its certainly what you are implying ... and I quote "Dire stuff indeed.. get out and vote so that we can keep themus out!! Anyone who votes based on that is a clampit"
what would you call that ? ... I doubt its "Twisted Logic" as you say..
You cant do normal politics with this crowd... I would have thought that was pretty obvious..
It depends on what you mean scandals with SF... again ive yet to see read or hear of normal politics from either crowd...
so you cant do normal politics with this crowd so do what then? if ya cant beat them join them??
It is dire stuff, and even more so if the public waste more money on voting again, while not laying blame on SF for that fiasco its still more tax payers money being wasted
Have you read any of the Party manifestos? All the bread and butter issues are covered there.
Every party has it in their manifestos but they never stick to it. You do know that ?
Evidence?
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 13, 2017, 09:34:44 PM
The aim of any pilot is to try something innovative and if it works then mainstream it. It would seem, however, that this pilot is now ending and they are now going to look to see how they can apply what has been learned from it into current provision. That will take time and an interim extension of 12 months for the pilot to allow for the new arrangements to be implemented would have seemed to have been a sensible approach. Problem is that the Civil Service is run by accountants and people who operate in silos therefore because the savings are possibly being made in other Departments counts for nothing if the funding department is not getting a return
Exactly as I have said but also the relevant Minister had the time and ability before they left their desk at 10 pm on 2nd March to make a decision to extend the pilot until an overall decision on its value can be decided and to ask that the civil servants to carry out the evaluation of this extensive pilot and have their recommendations ready for any incoming minister. Plenty of other decisions were taken by ministers in the absence of the assembly during the election period.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 13, 2017, 10:27:37 PM
Evidence?
http://dev.mydup.com/images/uploads/publications/DUP_Manifesto_2017_v2_SINGLES.pdf
Sorry, I don't know what point you're making other than proving my point that the Political parties have policies on the bread and butter issues and are delivering
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 13, 2017, 11:31:40 PM
Sorry, I don't know what point you're making other than proving my point that the Political parties have policies on the bread and butter issues and are delivering
I said they all have them but never follow up on them, pure lies ! We'll do this and that leading up to election and then not once follow through on their promises
Can you give a few examples of promises made in manifestos that were subsequently not followed through.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 14, 2017, 07:51:56 AM
Can you give a few examples of promises made in manifestos that were subsequently not followed through.
How are you still posting here?
SF do themselves no favours at times either - latest comments by Martina Anderson just make them seem pretty hypocritical to talk about respect -
https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2017/0314/859656-martina-anderson-brexit-border/
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on March 14, 2017, 02:31:29 PM
SF do themselves no favours at times either - latest comments by Martina Anderson just make them seem pretty hypocritical to talk about respect -
https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2017/0314/859656-martina-anderson-brexit-border/
Aye, a great orator she's not ... everytime she speaks it would make you cringe ???
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on March 14, 2017, 02:31:29 PM
SF do themselves no favours at times either - latest comments by Martina Anderson just make them seem pretty hypocritical to talk about respect -
https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2017/0314/859656-martina-anderson-brexit-border/
I agree that was a bit to aggressive and I don't think we are ready for a border poll just yet
SF had a good week recently and what is this about
Trying to score an own goal ala DUP
Yeah, can SF not try and snatch defeat (well, the moral high ground anyway) from the Jaws of victory just this once ::) ... Why not play it smarter..
What a ridiculous rant from Anderson. If ever there was a time to use quiet tones and moderate language. Reassure the moderate nationalists that they've done the right thing voting for SF. Reassure those UUP voters who listened to Mike TV and transferred to the SDLP that they haven't been sold a pup. But no. What a fcukin halfwit she is.
If Arlene forces another election, I'd bet that at least 50% of the gains made last week would be reversed.
Yep, talk like that is so bloody counterproductive & stupid its unbelievable ... She's a total liability ..
Jesus H, the European Parliament no less .. FFS :-\
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 14, 2017, 04:46:56 PM
Yep, talk like that is so bloody counterproductive & stupid its unbelievable ... She's a total liability ..
Jesus H, the European Parliament no less .. FFS :-\
A truly class act - speaking to a visually empty parliament seating.
For every Arlene, SF have a good few mirror images.
The whole border poll call is just a motivation to unionists to come away from the garden centres and not only vote but to change their votes from the UUP to DUP. This is part of the SF plan to remove the middle ground remember that 29 seats to DUP/TUV extreme is reflected in the 27 seats for the SF extreme but there are 90 seats and that means that there are 32 seats in the middle ground - majority of the seats in the Assembly. The only way to break the middle ground is motivate UUP voters to move to DUP as there is little margin for existing SDLP voters to be moved to SF.
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 14, 2017, 04:46:56 PM
Yep, talk like that is so bloody counterproductive & stupid its unbelievable ... She's a total liability ..
Jesus H, the European Parliament no less .. FFS :-\
This island has a long tradition of sending mediocrity to Europe .
Quote from: ashman on March 14, 2017, 05:05:32 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 14, 2017, 04:46:56 PM
Yep, talk like that is so bloody counterproductive & stupid its unbelievable ... She's a total liability ..
Jesus H, the European Parliament no less .. FFS :-\
This island has a long tradition of sending mediocrity to Europe .
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Phil_Hogan.jpg)
Quote from: armaghniac on March 14, 2017, 05:11:55 PM
Quote from: ashman on March 14, 2017, 05:05:32 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 14, 2017, 04:46:56 PM
Yep, talk like that is so bloody counterproductive & stupid its unbelievable ... She's a total liability ..
Jesus H, the European Parliament no less .. FFS :-\
This island has a long tradition of sending mediocrity to Europe .
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Phil_Hogan.jpg)
Yes .
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 14, 2017, 08:52:55 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 14, 2017, 07:51:56 AM
Can you give a few examples of promises made in manifestos that were subsequently not followed through.
How are you still posting here?
?
Just seen that rant!!! What was she on?? Magic mushrooms!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2017, 09:09:33 PM
Just seen that rant!!! What was she on?? Magic mushrooms!
Generally these Shinner speeches are well approved by the party bosses .
Quote from: Franko on March 14, 2017, 04:25:18 PM
What a ridiculous rant from Anderson. If ever there was a time to use quiet tones and moderate language. Reassure the moderate nationalists that they've done the right thing voting for SF. Reassure those UUP voters who listened to Mike TV and transferred to the SDLP that they haven't been sold a pup. But no. What a fcukin halfwit she is.
If Arlene forces another election, I'd bet that at least 50% of the gains made last week would be reversed.
She must not have got the respect, integrity, blahdeblahdeblah memo.
Quote from: ashman on March 14, 2017, 09:27:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2017, 09:09:33 PM
Just seen that rant!!! What was she on?? Magic mushrooms!
Generally these Shinner speeches are well approved by the party bosses .
I thought she was going to break into a song!!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2017, 09:37:24 PM
Quote from: ashman on March 14, 2017, 09:27:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2017, 09:09:33 PM
Just seen that rant!!! What was she on?? Magic mushrooms!
Generally these Shinner speeches are well approved by the party bosses .
I thought she was going to break into a song!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3vnPYaSm0A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3vnPYaSm0A)
Quote from: Franko on March 14, 2017, 04:25:18 PM
What a ridiculous rant from Anderson. If ever there was a time to use quiet tones and moderate language. Reassure the moderate nationalists that they've done the right thing voting for SF. Reassure those UUP voters who listened to Mike TV and transferred to the SDLP that they haven't been sold a pup. But no. What a fcukin halfwit she is.
If Arlene forces another election, I'd bet that at least 50% of the gains made last week would be reversed.
Couldn't agree more.
Quote from: podge on March 14, 2017, 09:58:00 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 14, 2017, 04:25:18 PM
What a ridiculous rant from Anderson. If ever there was a time to use quiet tones and moderate language. Reassure the moderate nationalists that they've done the right thing voting for SF. Reassure those UUP voters who listened to Mike TV and transferred to the SDLP that they haven't been sold a pup. But no. What a fcukin halfwit she is.
If Arlene forces another election, I'd bet that at least 50% of the gains made last week would be reversed.
Couldn't agree more.
A good election in 2016 caused the DUP to lose the plot, will SF do likewise in 2017?
Quote from: armaghniac on March 14, 2017, 10:48:48 PM
Quote from: podge on March 14, 2017, 09:58:00 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 14, 2017, 04:25:18 PM
What a ridiculous rant from Anderson. If ever there was a time to use quiet tones and moderate language. Reassure the moderate nationalists that they've done the right thing voting for SF. Reassure those UUP voters who listened to Mike TV and transferred to the SDLP that they haven't been sold a pup. But no. What a fcukin halfwit she is.
If Arlene forces another election, I'd bet that at least 50% of the gains made last week would be reversed.
Couldn't agree more.
A good election in 2016 caused the DUP to lose the plot, will SF do likewise in 2017?
Big election victories generally lead to hubris . SF would want to be wary
Anderson's hard to listen to at the best of times but this is bizarre. Looks like closing time down the boozer.
Quote from: ashman on March 14, 2017, 10:55:06 PM
Big election victories generally lead to hubris . SF would want to be wary
After hubris, nemesis.
SF seem to be losing the run of themselves and by rubbing unionist noses in it and calling for a border poll etc they are playing right into DUP hands. Expect an election in weeks, big unionist turnout coupled with lower nationalist turnout and Arlene will be back stronger than ever having 'put manners on SF'
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 14, 2017, 11:38:53 PM
SF seem to be losing the run of themselves and by rubbing unionist noses in it and calling for a border poll etc they are playing right into DUP hands. Expect an election in weeks, big unionist turnout coupled with lower nationalist turnout and Arlene will be back stronger than ever having 'put manners on SF'
Such a thing would reflect poorly on nationalists, the Brexit thing has not gone away and Anderson's comments, while crude, were directed at May, not the unionists.
Quote from: AQMP on March 14, 2017, 11:10:50 PM
At the risk of leaving myself open to legal action, was she completely blootered??
She was definitely on something! I mean who writes her stuff?? Oh wait, Paddy McGuigan, Tones , Clancy and the flying column be looking royalties on that
I know it's leading up to Paddys Day!! Muppet
It's clear that Martin McGuinness was the man keeping it all together
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 15, 2017, 12:10:40 AM
It's clear that Martin McGuinness was the man keeping it all together
+1
I think it is time SF reigned it in a bit, understandable that they are mega confident after the result. But rubbing it in the face of any one is not the way to make the most of their gains.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYmnw-Z343E
The UK looks quite wobbly
Brexit is dynamite
People had stopped voting for Sinn From because of their acceptance of DUP proposals and vetoes at Stormont. The voters are returning now that SF are standing up to the DUP and the British Government. Long may it continue.
Why is calling for a border poll so wrong?
As for the moderate Nationalists who transferred to SF, the SDLP vote didn't drop and second preferences transferred to the UUP. Reassurance of the UUP's transfers to the SDLP is not SF's problem.
If there is another election I would expect the SF vote to go up, especially among young nationalist voters.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/colm-t%C3%B3ib%C3%ADn-the-north-must-become-an-independent-eu-state-1.3010252
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2017, 10:25:45 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/colm-t%C3%B3ib%C3%ADn-the-north-must-become-an-independent-eu-state-1.3010252
To think that a so called serious newspaper publishes this crap. Toibin might be able to write a play or novel, but clearly has feck all understanding of anything else.
Quote from: Windmill abu on March 15, 2017, 10:23:27 AM
People had stopped voting for Sinn From because of their acceptance of DUP proposals and vetoes at Stormont. The voters are returning now that SF are standing up to the DUP and the British Government. Long may it continue.
Why is calling for a border poll so wrong?
As for the moderate Nationalists who transferred to SF, the SDLP vote didn't drop and second preferences transferred to the UUP. Reassurance of the UUP's transfers to the SDLP is not SF's problem.
If there is another election I would expect the SF vote to go up, especially among young nationalist voters.
Martina Andersons ridiculously horrendous display wont win SF any votes thats for sure ... If anything it will win the DUP more votes ..
Quote from: Armamike on March 14, 2017, 10:58:40 PM
Anderson's hard to listen to at the best of times but this is bizarre. Looks like closing time down the boozer.
Just typical of the type of behaviour of some of the more scummier elements of Sinn Fein.
May won't pay any heed to SF threats
May won't listen to anyone. The nationalists know Brexit is a joke.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/oct/25/theresa-may-private-brexit-warning-speech-to-goldman-sachs-audio
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2017/mar/15/david-davis-we-havent-assessed-impact-of-leaving-eu-with-no-brexit-deal-video
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 15, 2017, 01:45:27 PM
Quote from: Windmill abu on March 15, 2017, 10:23:27 AM
People had stopped voting for Sinn From because of their acceptance of DUP proposals and vetoes at Stormont. The voters are returning now that SF are standing up to the DUP and the British Government. Long may it continue.
Why is calling for a border poll so wrong?
As for the moderate Nationalists who transferred to SF, the SDLP vote didn't drop and second preferences transferred to the UUP. Reassurance of the UUP's transfers to the SDLP is not SF's problem.
If there is another election I would expect the SF vote to go up, especially among young nationalist voters.
Martina Andersons ridiculously horrendous display wont win SF any votes thats for sure ... If anything it will win the DUP more votes ..
Agree with this. Anderson's rant was well out of order.
Michelle O'Neill should seize the moment and publicly state that it was unacceptable.
Not much coming out of the talks or are they all in the snow in New York now?
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2017, 10:11:39 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYmnw-Z343E
The UK looks quite wobbly
Brexit is dynamite
Wrong thread, hijacker
SF are fast undoing all the good work they did a few weeks ago. One step forward and two back. The time since the election was a time for calm heads and not headers going on rants like. To me it's no coincidence these comments are coming out form various SF members just as Gerry appears to be popping up all over the place since the election with very unhelpful comments.
Quote from: podge on March 15, 2017, 09:15:39 PM
Quote from: AhNowRef on March 15, 2017, 01:45:27 PM
Quote from: Windmill abu on March 15, 2017, 10:23:27 AM
People had stopped voting for Sinn From because of their acceptance of DUP proposals and vetoes at Stormont. The voters are returning now that SF are standing up to the DUP and the British Government. Long may it continue.
Why is calling for a border poll so wrong?
As for the moderate Nationalists who transferred to SF, the SDLP vote didn't drop and second preferences transferred to the UUP. Reassurance of the UUP's transfers to the SDLP is not SF's problem.
If there is another election I would expect the SF vote to go up, especially among young nationalist voters.
Martina Andersons ridiculously horrendous display wont win SF any votes thats for sure ... If anything it will win the DUP more votes ..
Agree with this. Anderson's rant was well out of order.
Michelle O'Neill should seize the moment and publicly state that it was unacceptable.
Not much coming out of the talks or are they all in the snow in New York now?
I bet her speech was approved by the leadership. Scotland is rocking the UK status quo
Andersen is obviously an MEP to keep her out of sight locally as she is useless. Unfortunately for SF too many of their politicians (like all parties here) are of poor quality. Some of the 'new' talent that got elected last month with huge votes are shockingly bad!
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 16, 2017, 08:52:28 AM
Andersen is obviously an MEP to keep her out of sight locally as she is useless. Unfortunately for SF too many of their politicians (like all parties here) are of poor quality. Some of the 'new' talent that got elected last month with huge votes are shockingly bad!
Like who Johnny?
Quote from: NAG1 on March 16, 2017, 08:56:23 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 16, 2017, 08:52:28 AM
Andersen is obviously an MEP to keep her out of sight locally as she is useless. Unfortunately for SF too many of their politicians (like all parties here) are of poor quality. Some of the 'new' talent that got elected last month with huge votes are shockingly bad!
Like who Johnny?
Not sure about any of the new batch but I would say that, of the higher profile candidates over the last few years, if any of Adams, Anderson, Ruane, Carol NiChuilin, Kelly, Paul Maskey, Mar Lou, Gerry Kelly were on the other side of the argument, I think a lot of people wouldn't have a pile of time for them
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 16, 2017, 08:52:28 AM
Andersen is obviously an MEP to keep her out of sight locally as she is useless. Unfortunately for SF too many of their politicians (like all parties here) are of poor quality. Some of the 'new' talent that got elected last month with huge votes are shockingly bad!
This is another example of a 'sound bite' post. Can you please provide evidence to support this statement .
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 17, 2017, 10:17:31 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 16, 2017, 08:52:28 AM
Andersen is obviously an MEP to keep her out of sight locally as she is useless. Unfortunately for SF too many of their politicians (like all parties here) are of poor quality. Some of the 'new' talent that got elected last month with huge votes are shockingly bad!
This is another example of a 'sound bite' post. Can you please provide evidence to support this statement .
For starters most of them struggle to put a sentence together but that is par for the course these days. The new crew should be a step away from the baggage of the troubles to help SF grow but many are quite happy to confirm their family links. I personally would like my public representatives to be respectable and professional and not liking daft comments about the FM on facebook like a ten year old or having their partners assault people on the street . As podge stated many of the supposed old guard aren't much better but i wouldn't be too harsh on Adams and Kelly at least they have a bit of charisma. If you want evidence regarding Andersen then re-watch pretty much any interview she has ever given
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 16, 2017, 08:52:28 AM
Andersen is obviously an MEP to keep her out of sight locally as she is useless. Unfortunately for SF too many of their politicians (like all parties here) are of poor quality. Some of the 'new' talent that got elected last month with huge votes are shockingly bad!
Across the board in every party there are goms who shouldnt be left near a microphone and the lower you go down the foodchain of political institutions the more the case. However at MEP level you would expect better and the antics of Andersen and Ming Flanagan do not portray to good professional approach. Sinn Fein do not convince me or many of my friends that they are a true left wing party but they feel that they must follow PBP to get votes. To make the big breakthrough they will need to convince the man who gets out of bed for work that they have realistic economic policies.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 17, 2017, 11:55:58 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 17, 2017, 10:17:31 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 16, 2017, 08:52:28 AM
Andersen is obviously an MEP to keep her out of sight locally as she is useless. Unfortunately for SF too many of their politicians (like all parties here) are of poor quality. Some of the 'new' talent that got elected last month with huge votes are shockingly bad!
This is another example of a 'sound bite' post. Can you please provide evidence to support this statement .
For starters most of them struggle to put a sentence together but that is par for the course these days. The new crew should be a step away from the baggage of the troubles to help SF grow but many are quite happy to confirm their family links. I personally would like my public representatives to be respectable and professional and not liking daft comments about the FM on facebook like a ten year old or having their partners assault people on the street . As podge stated many of the supposed old guard aren't much better but i wouldn't be too harsh on Adams and Kelly at least they have a bit of charisma. If you want evidence regarding Andersen then re-watch pretty much any interview she has ever given
Gerry Kelly I do not like but he is more measured and respectful than a lot of the SF young wannabes.
Given the imprisonment and treatment he would have recieved he at least doesn't display the chip on the shoulder that Anderson, Flanagan and those other gobbems have. For whatever god knows reason they have one.
Someone perfectly described Andersons "speech" as a fishwifes rant. Which puts it perfectly.
Sammy Wilson is the name you're looking for.
At least Anderson kept her clothes on!
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2017, 02:25:03 PM
At least Anderson kept her clothes on!
Don't think being naked is allowed in the UK parliament.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/union-hard-brexit-will-put-thousands-of-jobs-in-northern-ireland-at-risk-35538445.html
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2017, 04:45:52 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/union-hard-brexit-will-put-thousands-of-jobs-in-northern-ireland-at-risk-35538445.html
You did read the article??
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2017, 07:53:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2017, 04:45:52 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/union-hard-brexit-will-put-thousands-of-jobs-in-northern-ireland-at-risk-35538445.html
You did read the article??
Did you? Would you like to explain it to us?
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2017, 07:58:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2017, 07:53:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2017, 04:45:52 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/union-hard-brexit-will-put-thousands-of-jobs-in-northern-ireland-at-risk-35538445.html
You did read the article??
Did you? Would you like to explain it to us?
Guessing what might happen is not the same as what will happen .... it actually ended up saying trade within the U.K. Is possibly better
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2017, 08:03:08 PM
Guessing what might happen is not the same as what will happen
You've said this before. Guessing what might happen is also not the same as informed analysis about what will happen.
Quote.... it actually ended up saying trade within the U.K. Is possibly better
If you close off borders to trade, you have to get stuff in the UK instead. Why not just close off Scotland, England and Wales separately and then you'd have even more local trade? I wouldn't believe Jeff Peel if he said it was St Patrick's day.
Will the Brits grow their own bananas?
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2017, 08:09:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2017, 08:03:08 PM
Guessing what might happen is not the same as what will happen
You've said this before. Guessing what might happen is also not the same as informed analysis about what will happen.
Quote.... it actually ended up saying trade within the U.K. Is possibly better
If you close off borders to trade, you have to get stuff in the UK instead. Why not just close off Scotland, England and Wales separately and then you'd have even more local trade? I wouldn't believe Jeff Peel if he said it was St Patrick's day.
Was there not an informed expert in the article?? We'll know better in 2 years or so if it is worse off...
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2017, 08:13:45 PM
Was there not an informed expert in the article?? We'll know better in 2 years or so if it is worse off...
So it is a case of why try and discuss anything, rather just wait and see.
Good plan. Let's shut the forum down until September and we'll see who won the All Ireland.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2017, 08:24:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2017, 08:13:45 PM
Was there not an informed expert in the article?? We'll know better in 2 years or so if it is worse off...
So it is a case of why try and discuss anything, rather just wait and see.
Good plan. Let's shut the forum down until September and we'll see who won the All Ireland.
So if i were to put up expert views to show a positive spin on it would you be far happier??
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 17, 2017, 11:55:58 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 17, 2017, 10:17:31 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 16, 2017, 08:52:28 AM
Andersen is obviously an MEP to keep her out of sight locally as she is useless. Unfortunately for SF too many of their politicians (like all parties here) are of poor quality. Some of the 'new' talent that got elected last month with huge votes are shockingly bad!
This is another example of a 'sound bite' post. Can you please provide evidence to support this statement .
For starters most of them struggle to put a sentence together but that is par for the course these days. The new crew should be a step away from the baggage of the troubles to help SF grow but many are quite happy to confirm their family links. I personally would like my public representatives to be respectable and professional and not liking daft comments about the FM on facebook like a ten year old or having their partners assault people on the street . As podge stated many of the supposed old guard aren't much better but i wouldn't be too harsh on Adams and Kelly at least they have a bit of charisma. If you want evidence regarding Andersen then re-watch pretty much any interview she has ever given
A nonsensical rant. Produce the evidence to support your claims. So far you've allude to a young western MLA who stupidly liked a comment about the FM and was publicly rebuked for it it. What else do you have to back up what you say
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2017, 08:51:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2017, 08:24:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2017, 08:13:45 PM
Was there not an informed expert in the article?? We'll know better in 2 years or so if it is worse off...
So it is a case of why try and discuss anything, rather just wait and see.
Good plan. Let's shut the forum down until September and we'll see who won the All Ireland.
So if i were to put up expert views to show a positive spin on it would you be far happier??
I'd be quite happy with an expert with rational argued views.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2017, 12:12:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2017, 08:51:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2017, 08:24:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2017, 08:13:45 PM
Was there not an informed expert in the article?? We'll know better in 2 years or so if it is worse off...
So it is a case of why try and discuss anything, rather just wait and see.
Good plan. Let's shut the forum down until September and we'll see who won the All Ireland.
So if i were to put up expert views to show a positive spin on it would you be far happier??
I'd be quite happy with an expert with rational argued views.
As long as you agree with it of course
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2017, 12:18:47 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2017, 12:12:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2017, 08:51:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2017, 08:24:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2017, 08:13:45 PM
Was there not an informed expert in the article?? We'll know better in 2 years or so if it is worse off...
So it is a case of why try and discuss anything, rather just wait and see.
Good plan. Let's shut the forum down until September and we'll see who won the All Ireland.
So if i were to put up expert views to show a positive spin on it would you be far happier??
I'd be quite happy with an expert with rational argued views.
As long as you agree with it of course
If the argument is properly made and supported with facts, what else can I do but agree with it, unless I can refute it.
http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/northern-ireland-businesses-bounce-back-from-brexit-with-positive-end-to-2016-survey-shows-35356076.html
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2017, 01:03:33 AM
http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/northern-ireland-businesses-bounce-back-from-brexit-with-positive-end-to-2016-survey-shows-35356076.html
So what, they've had the devaluation but not yet the Brexit.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2017, 08:03:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2017, 07:58:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2017, 07:53:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2017, 04:45:52 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/union-hard-brexit-will-put-thousands-of-jobs-in-northern-ireland-at-risk-35538445.html
You did read the article??
Did you? Would you like to explain it to us?
Guessing what might happen is not the same as what will happen .... it actually ended up saying trade within the U.K. Is possibly better
Jeff Peel is operating out of la la Land. If the UK trades under WTO rules tariffs will apply. The UK government does not know what will happen because it can't be arsed studying the consequences. Kelly sounds more clued in.
"There is every indication that our trade will thrive in a United Kingdom that promises to be a global trailblazer for free trade - with the EU and the rest of the world."
is pure plámás
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2017, 02:49:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2017, 01:03:33 AM
http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/northern-ireland-businesses-bounce-back-from-brexit-with-positive-end-to-2016-survey-shows-35356076.html
So what, they've had the devaluation but not yet the Brexit.
We can only look at the here and now surely? When more studies are done based on the next 6 months we'll get a better picture
Catholic population set to dwarf Protestants in years ahead
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/catholic-population-set-to-dwarf-protestants-in-years-ahead-1-7872318 (http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/catholic-population-set-to-dwarf-protestants-in-years-ahead-1-7872318)
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on March 18, 2017, 10:24:45 PM
Catholic population set to dwarf Protestants in years ahead
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/catholic-population-set-to-dwarf-protestants-in-years-ahead-1-7872318 (http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/catholic-population-set-to-dwarf-protestants-in-years-ahead-1-7872318)
Sensationalist headline, yes there's demographic change but it's not like two-thirds of the population is going to be catholic.
Quote from: randomusername on March 18, 2017, 11:32:35 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on March 18, 2017, 10:24:45 PM
Catholic population set to dwarf Protestants in years ahead
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/catholic-population-set-to-dwarf-protestants-in-years-ahead-1-7872318 (http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/catholic-population-set-to-dwarf-protestants-in-years-ahead-1-7872318)
Sensationalist headline, yes there's demographic change but it's not like two-thirds of the population is going to be catholic.
Yet this is the type of hysterical reporting that is being fed out to the protestant community by one of its major newspapers and attitude formers or reinforcers.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on March 18, 2017, 10:24:45 PM
Catholic population set to dwarf Protestants in years ahead
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/catholic-population-set-to-dwarf-protestants-in-years-ahead-1-7872318 (http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/catholic-population-set-to-dwarf-protestants-in-years-ahead-1-7872318)
Are Prods not eating their weetabix?
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on March 18, 2017, 11:34:55 PM
Quote from: randomusername on March 18, 2017, 11:32:35 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on March 18, 2017, 10:24:45 PM
Catholic population set to dwarf Protestants in years ahead
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/catholic-population-set-to-dwarf-protestants-in-years-ahead-1-7872318 (http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/catholic-population-set-to-dwarf-protestants-in-years-ahead-1-7872318)
Sensationalist headline, yes there's demographic change but it's not like two-thirds of the population is going to be catholic.
Yet this is the type of hysterical reporting that is being fed out to the protestant community by one of its major newspapers and attitude formers or reinforcers.
Two thirds will not be Protestant, by 2080. He who is not with me is against me.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/diarmaid-ferriter-a-history-of-partition-and-europe-s-role-1.3014508
In October 1922, a nationalist deputation from Northern Ireland arrived in Dublin to meet members of the provisional government of the new state. They got short shrift from Kevin O'Higgins, the minister for home affairs, who essentially told them they were on their own and that what northern nationalism needed was "a great deal of strenuous voluntary work – just the same sort of strenuous work that brought the national position to the stage it has reached". The washing of southern hands could hardly have been more apparent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3G1bwD0ao0
Quote from: seafoid on March 19, 2017, 07:21:42 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/diarmaid-ferriter-a-history-of-partition-and-europe-s-role-1.3014508
In October 1922, a nationalist deputation from Northern Ireland arrived in Dublin to meet members of the provisional government of the new state. They got short shrift from Kevin O'Higgins, the minister for home affairs, who essentially told them they were on their own and that what northern nationalism needed was "a great deal of strenuous voluntary work – just the same sort of strenuous work that brought the national position to the stage it has reached". The washing of southern hands could hardly have been more apparent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3G1bwD0ao0
And then the Northern nationalists did nothing for 50 years.
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 19, 2017, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 19, 2017, 07:21:42 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/diarmaid-ferriter-a-history-of-partition-and-europe-s-role-1.3014508
In October 1922, a nationalist deputation from Northern Ireland arrived in Dublin to meet members of the provisional government of the new state. They got short shrift from Kevin O'Higgins, the minister for home affairs, who essentially told them they were on their own and that what northern nationalism needed was "a great deal of strenuous voluntary work – just the same sort of strenuous work that brought the national position to the stage it has reached". The washing of southern hands could hardly have been more apparent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3G1bwD0ao0
And then the Northern nationalists did nothing for 50 years.
The Palestinians also took 1 or 2 generations to.recover from their trauma. Down's 1960 all Ireland was the first sign that things were going to.change, I think.
So Adams doesn't doubt Arlene's innocence........
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/no-reason-to-doubt-arlene-foster-is-innocent-in-rhi-scandal-says-gerry-adams-35541824.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/no-reason-to-doubt-arlene-foster-is-innocent-in-rhi-scandal-says-gerry-adams-35541824.html)
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on March 20, 2017, 10:30:42 AM
So Adams doesn't doubt Arlene's innocence........
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/no-reason-to-doubt-arlene-foster-is-innocent-in-rhi-scandal-says-gerry-adams-35541824.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/no-reason-to-doubt-arlene-foster-is-innocent-in-rhi-scandal-says-gerry-adams-35541824.html)
Maybe its a case that May, Kenny and the Americans have told SF and DUP to grow up and sort their own shit out. Adams can size it up well and has plenty previous for changing policy and abandoning "principles"
SF pull down the Assembly again by walking out of talks. Not waiting for DUP to attend further talks tomorrow.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-39399501 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-39399501)
Commentators had indicated that SF were painting themselves into a corner with their demands on such a range of fronts and either a walk out or back down would be required. This was signalled by Adams when he earlier had said no extension of time for further talks would be accepted.
No budget for all of our services will mean redundancies in many areas for all of those already on protective notice, continuing chaos in the health service and education redundancies will be pushed ahead to meet the 30th April deadline to identify those who will lose their jobs.
I blame brexit!!!
On Sunday Sinn Fein leader Michelle O'Neill said: "When the extent of the RHI scandal became apparent and the first minister refused to step aside, Martin McGuinness acted and made clear there could be no return to the status quo. The decision by Martin McGuinness to resign was endorsed in the election. The election result has transformed the political landscape. "Sinn Féin is still intent on honouring our mandate and agreements made. We want to see the institutions restored but when we said there will be no return to the status quo we meant it."
Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/sinn-fein-rules-out-stormont-talks-deal-1-7885253
What are the Shinners looking for?
Quote from: seafoid on March 26, 2017, 07:54:12 PM
On Sunday Sinn Fein leader Michelle O'Neill said: "When the extent of the RHI scandal became apparent and the first minister refused to step aside, Martin McGuinness acted and made clear there could be no return to the status quo. The decision by Martin McGuinness to resign was endorsed in the election. The election result has transformed the political landscape. "Sinn Féin is still intent on honouring our mandate and agreements made. We want to see the institutions restored but when we said there will be no return to the status quo we meant it."
Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/sinn-fein-rules-out-stormont-talks-deal-1-7885253
What are the Shinners looking for?
I'm not sure but I'd guess legacy cases have a fair bit to do with this.
Warning to all householders
By now you would normally have received your rates demand for 2017-18 but it won't have arrived.
Your rates cannot be collected by your council because of the mess at Stormont. If you pay by direct debit over 10 months then continue to set the same amount of money aside from next Saturday for when the demands eventually hit your doormat and you have to pay up all arrears that you weren't responsible for accruing. Also put a little extra aside as most councils increased the rates and the N.I. will probably increase at least with inflation.
Unfortunately, too many innocent bystanders will be affected by political grandstanding. Hopefully, some solution may be reached by the civil servants.
This failure to collect will continue until government is restored and you may be asked to pay your bill in a single payment.
The fault lies with DUP & SF.
Contact your local councillors to complain about this situation using this website:
https://www.writetothem.com
They really don't give a shit about Joe Bloggs, it's just an endless game of one trying to outmanoeuvre the other, and to hell with actually governing
Both SF & DUP will be happy to go to another election to finish SDLP & UUP respectively
Quote from: Minder on March 26, 2017, 09:25:46 PM
They really don't give a shit about Joe Bloggs, it's just an endless game of one trying to outmanoeuvre the other, and to hell with actually governing
+1
Quote from: seafoid on March 26, 2017, 07:54:12 PM
On Sunday Sinn Fein leader Michelle O'Neill said: "When the extent of the RHI scandal became apparent and the first minister refused to step aside, Martin McGuinness acted and made clear there could be no return to the status quo. The decision by Martin McGuinness to resign was endorsed in the election. The election result has transformed the political landscape. "Sinn Féin is still intent on honouring our mandate and agreements made. We want to see the institutions restored but when we said there will be no return to the status quo we meant it."
Read more at: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/sinn-fein-rules-out-stormont-talks-deal-1-7885253
What are the Shinners looking for?
Both parties released this statement tonight:
https://youtu.be/e3-5YC_oHjE
Quote from: Minder on March 26, 2017, 09:25:46 PM
They really don't give a shit about Joe Bloggs, it's just an endless game of one trying to outmanoeuvre the other, and to hell with actually governing
Both SF & DUP will be happy to go to another election to finish SDLP & UUP respectively
Apparently not according to a few blinkered posters here, they think that they have done a great job though haven't given any evidence on this...
SF will lose out here I feel
The unionists would want another election because they didn't like the last result,could sinn fein have the power to stop another election?or would they have to participate again.Sinn fein went to the electorate previously stating they wouldn't go back in government until foster stepped aside until inquiry finished,the mandate they received endorsed this so they couldn't compromise on this surely.
Quote from: uimhr ocht on March 26, 2017, 10:22:45 PM
The unionists would want another election because they didn't like the last result,could sinn fein have the power to stop another election?or would they have to participate again.Sinn fein went to the electorate previously stating they wouldn't go back in government until foster stepped aside until inquiry finished,the mandate they received endorsed this so they couldn't compromise on this surely.
Not the reason they gave for their walkout. Claiming it was legacy, iLA, Bill of Rights and Equal Marriage. Equal marriage is the business of the whole Assembly and not just SF or DUP; Bills of Rights and Legacy is a matter to be resolved at UK government level and SF previously agreed that the ILA was the remit of the UK government. So SF is hold everyone to ransom while it attempts to deal with the UK government and blames the DUP. If SF had managed to achieve binding agreements on any of these issues it claims to have sorted in the past then the courts is the route to dealing with it.
They never even got to the stage of Foster being nominated as a reason to walkout.
SF failed to read the situation put on a plate for them. You don't think Clinton came to the funeral on their invite? He was there because the Irish government provided a state funeral for them and turned up all the players they could manage bar Blair: presidents Clinton, McAleese & Higgins, Taoisigh Kenny & Aherne. Adams has overplayed his hand and when the finance begins to crunch on the ordinary people he will hear about it. The welfare easement on the UK reforms will not continue after 1st April, bedroom tax will apply, jobs will be lost in the NICVA sectors, education and health because no budget is available and civil servants will pay out minimum levels within a percentage of last years amounts. Local councils will be squeezed because their rates income is unknown and not collected. The victims of historical abuse will be left to fade away and the report will not be acted on.
They did not listen to the voices across the country about victims and have failed to include all victims in their 'search for truth'. Only a full process looking for truth of all victims of state, IRA, Loyalists will be enough for the majority of people.
Is this not a problem with the GFA? One party throws its toys ouf the pram and everything held up. In other jurisdictions the
other parties would work something out.
Quote from: seafoid on March 27, 2017, 06:53:32 AM
Is this not a problem with the GFA? One party throws its toys ouf the pram and everything held up. In other jurisdictions the
other parties would work something out.
+1
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on March 26, 2017, 11:05:17 PM
Quote from: uimhr ocht on March 26, 2017, 10:22:45 PM
The unionists would want another election because they didn't like the last result,could sinn fein have the power to stop another election?or would they have to participate again.Sinn fein went to the electorate previously stating they wouldn't go back in government until foster stepped aside until inquiry finished,the mandate they received endorsed this so they couldn't compromise on this surely.
Not the reason they gave for their walkout. Claiming it was legacy, iLA, Bill of Rights and Equal Marriage. Equal marriage is the business of the whole Assembly and not just SF or DUP; Bills of Rights and Legacy is a matter to be resolved at UK government level and SF previously agreed that the ILA was the remit of the UK government. So SF is hold everyone to ransom while it attempts to deal with the UK government and blames the DUP. If SF had managed to achieve binding agreements on any of these issues it claims to have sorted in the past then the courts is the route to dealing with it.
They never even got to the stage of Foster being nominated as a reason to walkout.
SF failed to read the situation put on a plate for them. You don't think Clinton came to the funeral on their invite? He was there because the Irish government provided a state funeral for them and turned up all the players they could manage bar Blair: presidents Clinton, McAleese & Higgins, Taoisigh Kenny & Aherne. Adams has overplayed his hand and when the finance begins to crunch on the ordinary people he will hear about it. The welfare easement on the UK reforms will not continue after 1st April, bedroom tax will apply, jobs will be lost in the NICVA sectors, education and health because no budget is available and civil servants will pay out minimum levels within a percentage of last years amounts. Local councils will be squeezed because their rates income is unknown and not collected. The victims of historical abuse will be left to fade away and the report will not be acted on.
They did not listen to the voices across the country about victims and have failed to include all victims in their 'search for truth'. Only a full process looking for truth of all victims of state, IRA, Loyalists will be enough for the majority of people.
What a load of nonsense.
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 27, 2017, 09:29:20 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on March 26, 2017, 11:05:17 PM
Quote from: uimhr ocht on March 26, 2017, 10:22:45 PM
The unionists would want another election because they didn't like the last result,could sinn fein have the power to stop another election?or would they have to participate again.Sinn fein went to the electorate previously stating they wouldn't go back in government until foster stepped aside until inquiry finished,the mandate they received endorsed this so they couldn't compromise on this surely.
Not the reason they gave for their walkout. Claiming it was legacy, iLA, Bill of Rights and Equal Marriage. Equal marriage is the business of the whole Assembly and not just SF or DUP; Bills of Rights and Legacy is a matter to be resolved at UK government level and SF previously agreed that the ILA was the remit of the UK government. So SF is hold everyone to ransom while it attempts to deal with the UK government and blames the DUP. If SF had managed to achieve binding agreements on any of these issues it claims to have sorted in the past then the courts is the route to dealing with it.
They never even got to the stage of Foster being nominated as a reason to walkout.
SF failed to read the situation put on a plate for them. You don't think Clinton came to the funeral on their invite? He was there because the Irish government provided a state funeral for them and turned up all the players they could manage bar Blair: presidents Clinton, McAleese & Higgins, Taoisigh Kenny & Aherne. Adams has overplayed his hand and when the finance begins to crunch on the ordinary people he will hear about it. The welfare easement on the UK reforms will not continue after 1st April, bedroom tax will apply, jobs will be lost in the NICVA sectors, education and health because no budget is available and civil servants will pay out minimum levels within a percentage of last years amounts. Local councils will be squeezed because their rates income is unknown and not collected. The victims of historical abuse will be left to fade away and the report will not be acted on.
They did not listen to the voices across the country about victims and have failed to include all victims in their 'search for truth'. Only a full process looking for truth of all victims of state, IRA, Loyalists will be enough for the majority of people.
What a load of nonsense.
Absolute nonsense Owen, embarrassing in fact.
Out of interest, what do you think they should be negotiating on/settling for?
SF garnered a resurgent nationalist vote by standing up to the DUP's arrogance and intrangience on a number of issue, language, Irish Identity and a deal to put legacy issues to bed that is not one sided in approach, i.e. natioanlists and republicans caused all the hurt. This idea of redundancies etc is a bullshit mechanism to put pressure on parties to get on with an executive and try and sort the other stuff out on the side. That hasn't worked before, the DUP pocketed all the gooodies and refused to accept what they didn't like. We have had our fair share of poor SOSNI's in the past, but none so biased and pro DUP as Brokenshire. Whilst some people might get frustrated by a lack of return to Stormont, SF cannot do so with out agreement from Unionists on equality. The looming catholic majority should be focusing their minds to do a deal now, but instead they are circling the waggons. What scares Unionists more a NI that is run by a nationalist majority or a UI?
What will be the cost to the tax payer on the Irish language act? To implement it, run it and oversee it? and what will it entail exactly?
Quote from: AQMP on March 27, 2017, 11:16:22 AM
We must remember that one of SF's slogans at the polls last time was "No return to the status quo". Reading between the lines of what Naomi Long, Nichola Mallon and Colum Eastwood said over the weekend, that seemed to be what was on offer from the DUP.
DUP are saying that the Shinners issues are with the British government rather than them and there's probably a bit of truth in that as Brokenshire doesn't seem to want to stump up for the legacy legal fees and that's not a bit surprising with what he said pre election on the matter. He's a little Englander and needs booted out the door.
I don't think the Shinners ever got to the DUP on the RHI scandal...
Quote from: johnneycool on March 27, 2017, 11:32:15 AM
Quote from: AQMP on March 27, 2017, 11:16:22 AM
We must remember that one of SF's slogans at the polls last time was "No return to the status quo". Reading between the lines of what Naomi Long, Nichola Mallon and Colum Eastwood said over the weekend, that seemed to be what was on offer from the DUP.
DUP are saying that the Shinners issues are with the British government rather than them and there's probably a bit of truth in that as Brokenshire doesn't seem to want to stump up for the legacy legal fees and that's not a bit surprising with what he said pre election on the matter. He's a little Englander and needs booted out the door.
tbf I think that is the issue, but I really can`t see given the cuts across the board that the british will allocate funding for a legacy commission.
I also think the dup will want another election to strengthen their hand.
I don't think the Shinners ever got to the DUP on the RHI scandal...
The DUP want another election pronto... they'll not be complacent this time and mobilise their vote and the Nationalists who were outraged enough about the crocodile comment to vote Sinn Fein for a change won't do so again and the DUP will get their seats back from the UUP.
Not that it'll matter SF and DUP will still have to work together at some stage and the RHI verdict doesn't look like it's forthcoming anytime soon. We all know what it will say anyway "Foster was not guilty of anything in particular but was negligent in that she should have known what was happening"
Quote from: screenexile on March 27, 2017, 12:40:53 PM
The DUP want another election pronto... they'll not be complacent this time and mobilise their vote and the Nationalists who were outraged enough about the crocodile comment to vote Sinn Fein for a change won't do so again and the DUP will get their seats back from the UUP.
Not that it'll matter SF and DUP will still have to work together at some stage and the RHI verdict doesn't look like it's forthcoming anytime soon. We all know what it will say anyway "Foster was not guilty of anything in particular but was negligent in that she should have known what was happening"
It'll matter if the DUP get 30 seats. Back to playing the POC again. The status quo returns.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 27, 2017, 10:09:08 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 27, 2017, 09:29:20 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on March 26, 2017, 11:05:17 PM
Quote from: uimhr ocht on March 26, 2017, 10:22:45 PM
The unionists would want another election because they didn't like the last result,could sinn fein have the power to stop another election?or would they have to participate again.Sinn fein went to the electorate previously stating they wouldn't go back in government until foster stepped aside until inquiry finished,the mandate they received endorsed this so they couldn't compromise on this surely.
Not the reason they gave for their walkout. Claiming it was legacy, iLA, Bill of Rights and Equal Marriage. Equal marriage is the business of the whole Assembly and not just SF or DUP; Bills of Rights and Legacy is a matter to be resolved at UK government level and SF previously agreed that the ILA was the remit of the UK government. So SF is hold everyone to ransom while it attempts to deal with the UK government and blames the DUP. If SF had managed to achieve binding agreements on any of these issues it claims to have sorted in the past then the courts is the route to dealing with it.
They never even got to the stage of Foster being nominated as a reason to walkout.
SF failed to read the situation put on a plate for them. You don't think Clinton came to the funeral on their invite? He was there because the Irish government provided a state funeral for them and turned up all the players they could manage bar Blair: presidents Clinton, McAleese & Higgins, Taoisigh Kenny & Aherne. Adams has overplayed his hand and when the finance begins to crunch on the ordinary people he will hear about it. The welfare easement on the UK reforms will not continue after 1st April, bedroom tax will apply, jobs will be lost in the NICVA sectors, education and health because no budget is available and civil servants will pay out minimum levels within a percentage of last years amounts. Local councils will be squeezed because their rates income is unknown and not collected. The victims of historical abuse will be left to fade away and the report will not be acted on.
They did not listen to the voices across the country about victims and have failed to include all victims in their 'search for truth'. Only a full process looking for truth of all victims of state, IRA, Loyalists will be enough for the majority of people.
What a load of nonsense.
Absolute nonsense Owen, embarrassing in fact.
Out of interest, what do you think they should be negotiating on/settling for?
The history of deals involving DUP and SF over the last 10 years has been fudge after fudge, everyone a sticking plaster. They were all poor deals that were not clearly defined and all allowed them to proceed along the road to govern again until the next time. If the deals were good then either side could be held to the terms of the deal but that has not been the case.
SF has declared legacy, bill of rights, equal marriage and ILA as their issues.
Equal marriage is a matter for the Assembly as a whole to deal with so there is no need to have any negotiation on it unless the POC is the real issue but no one is saying so.
The ILA was agreed by SF in the St Andrew's agreement with the British Government so negotiate with them on it or try to bring it in to the Assembly by convincing others apart from DUP to go along and there are enough to do so.
Bill of Rights is complicated by EU issues. Currently we are all covered by the comprehensive bill of rights through the European Court of Justice. A separate bill for N.ireland is not a priority.
Legacy was agreed in the Fresh Start agreement hailed by SF as the way forward and as another poor agreement the wriggle room it provided allowed others to have their own interpretation on responsibilities. So, go back and sort it out with another sticking plaster or bring forward a comprehensive approach from an International body which will look at every death and pay an immediate pension to victims before any more of them die. Again this is an issue with the British government who hold the purse strings.
SF and DUP do not like each other and there is mutual disrespect. Time to get over it, accept it and govern the country if you want the GFA as the constitutional method of government.
Much has been made of Martin McGuinness and his actions in reaching out to the unionist community and he is right to be praised but he was out there on his own, not another colleague of his made any consistent effort to follow him in his actions.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on March 27, 2017, 01:56:50 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 27, 2017, 10:09:08 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 27, 2017, 09:29:20 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on March 26, 2017, 11:05:17 PM
Quote from: uimhr ocht on March 26, 2017, 10:22:45 PM
The unionists would want another election because they didn't like the last result,could sinn fein have the power to stop another election?or would they have to participate again.Sinn fein went to the electorate previously stating they wouldn't go back in government until foster stepped aside until inquiry finished,the mandate they received endorsed this so they couldn't compromise on this surely.
Not the reason they gave for their walkout. Claiming it was legacy, iLA, Bill of Rights and Equal Marriage. Equal marriage is the business of the whole Assembly and not just SF or DUP; Bills of Rights and Legacy is a matter to be resolved at UK government level and SF previously agreed that the ILA was the remit of the UK government. So SF is hold everyone to ransom while it attempts to deal with the UK government and blames the DUP. If SF had managed to achieve binding agreements on any of these issues it claims to have sorted in the past then the courts is the route to dealing with it.
They never even got to the stage of Foster being nominated as a reason to walkout.
SF failed to read the situation put on a plate for them. You don't think Clinton came to the funeral on their invite? He was there because the Irish government provided a state funeral for them and turned up all the players they could manage bar Blair: presidents Clinton, McAleese & Higgins, Taoisigh Kenny & Aherne. Adams has overplayed his hand and when the finance begins to crunch on the ordinary people he will hear about it. The welfare easement on the UK reforms will not continue after 1st April, bedroom tax will apply, jobs will be lost in the NICVA sectors, education and health because no budget is available and civil servants will pay out minimum levels within a percentage of last years amounts. Local councils will be squeezed because their rates income is unknown and not collected. The victims of historical abuse will be left to fade away and the report will not be acted on.
They did not listen to the voices across the country about victims and have failed to include all victims in their 'search for truth'. Only a full process looking for truth of all victims of state, IRA, Loyalists will be enough for the majority of people.
What a load of nonsense.
Absolute nonsense Owen, embarrassing in fact.
Out of interest, what do you think they should be negotiating on/settling for?
The history of deals involving DUP and SF over the last 10 years has been fudge after fudge, everyone a sticking plaster. They were all poor deals that were not clearly defined and all allowed them to proceed along the road to govern again until the next time. If the deals were good then either side could be held to the terms of the deal but that has not been the case.
SF has declared legacy, bill of rights, equal marriage and ILA as their issues.
Equal marriage is a matter for the Assembly as a whole to deal with so there is no need to have any negotiation on it unless the POC is the real issue but no one is saying so.
The ILA was agreed by SF in the St Andrew's agreement with the British Government so negotiate with them on it or try to bring it in to the Assembly by convincing others apart from DUP to go along and there are enough to do so.
Bill of Rights is complicated by EU issues. Currently we are all covered by the comprehensive bill of rights through the European Court of Justice. A separate bill for N.ireland is not a priority.
Legacy was agreed in the Fresh Start agreement hailed by SF as the way forward and as another poor agreement the wriggle room it provided allowed others to have their own interpretation on responsibilities. So, go back and sort it out with another sticking plaster or bring forward a comprehensive approach from an International body which will look at every death and pay an immediate pension to victims before any more of them die. Again this is an issue with the British government who hold the purse strings.
SF and DUP do not like each other and there is mutual disrespect. Time to get over it, accept it and govern the country if you want the GFA as the constitutional method of government.
Much has been made of Martin McGuinness and his actions in reaching out to the unionist community and he is right to be praised but he was out there on his own, not another colleague of his made any consistent effort to follow him in his actions.
As opposed to the large number of unionists reaching out to the nationalist community?
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 27, 2017, 02:00:06 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on March 27, 2017, 01:56:50 PM
Much has been made of Martin McGuinness and his actions in reaching out to the unionist community and he is right to be praised but he was out there on his own, not another colleague of his made any consistent effort to follow him in his actions.
As opposed to the large number of unionists reaching out to the nationalist community?
That's were leadership comes in. McGuinness was first and foremost a great leader in everything he did. Like all good leaders he was willing to take risks and to make the first move or a brave move even if it doesn't initially succeed or pay off. Hence, Paisley was also a good leader and took his step forward. Foster is not a leader, she wants to hunker down and dig in, hold on to what she thinks is hers and to refuse to give an inch, she goes for the lowest common denominator every time.
If you always wait for the other side to do something you get nowhere. Not only should our politicians be reaching out but it is incumbent on all of us to make some effort to reach out rather than give out all the time about themuns. As Clinton said we should expand Us and reduce Them.
Not one bit surprised by this, SF said before the election that the Status Quo would not return, that meant serious work from the British/Irish government and the DUP with SF, it never happened, they are delivering on their election promise. If you voted for SF, they are delivering on their election promises.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on March 27, 2017, 02:09:53 PM
If you always wait for the other side to do something you get nowhere. Not only should our politicians be reaching out but it is incumbent on all of us to make some effort to reach out rather than give out all the time about themuns. As Clinton said we should expand Us and reduce Them.
You're acknowledging SF have continually made un-reciprocated effort, and seem to be slating them for not continuing to do so. Surely you can see there comes a point where you have to stand up for your own mandate?
Re the iLA - you're not so stupid as to have actually bought that little line from the DUP, so you know thats rubbish
Re the bill of rights - not a priority for whom? When will it be dealt with? What are negotiations for?
Re equal marriage - what does 'an issue for the whole assembly mean??' How have the whole assembly got on in this area before? Is there an issue with SF seeking equality which DUP have consistently denied in these negotiations?
Re legacy - on the one hand you say deal before was poor, on the other you say shouldn't be negotiating on it ::) You also know, despite your statements to the contrary that this is an area where the british govt will be lead by the parties here
Quote from: Man Marker on March 27, 2017, 02:12:05 PM
Not one bit surprised by this, SF said before the election that the Status Quo would not return, that meant serious work from the British/Irish government and the DUP with SF, it never happened, they are delivering on their election promise. If you voted for SF, they are delivering on their election promises.
They could deliver on that particular promise by literally doing nothing. Let's have a civic reception for them.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 27, 2017, 03:22:00 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on March 27, 2017, 02:09:53 PM
If you always wait for the other side to do something you get nowhere. Not only should our politicians be reaching out but it is incumbent on all of us to make some effort to reach out rather than give out all the time about themuns. As Clinton said we should expand Us and reduce Them.
You're acknowledging SF have continually made un-reciprocated effort, and seem to be slating them for not continuing to do so. Surely you can see there comes a point where you have to stand up for your own mandate?
Re the iLA - you're not so stupid as to have actually bought that little line from the DUP, so you know thats rubbish
Re the bill of rights - not a priority for whom? When will it be dealt with? What are negotiations for?
Re equal marriage - what does 'an issue for the whole assembly mean??' How have the whole assembly got on in this area before? Is there an issue with SF seeking equality which DUP have consistently denied in these negotiations?
Re legacy - on the one hand you say deal before was poor, on the other you say shouldn't be negotiating on it ::) You also know, despite your statements to the contrary that this is an area where the british govt will be lead by the parties here
There's little or no objectivity in TYP's postings. It's SF = bad. All the time. An anti-shinnerbot, if you will.
You must frame all his posts in this context.
Quote from: gallsman on March 27, 2017, 03:35:32 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on March 27, 2017, 02:12:05 PM
Not one bit surprised by this, SF said before the election that the Status Quo would not return, that meant serious work from the British/Irish government and the DUP with SF, it never happened, they are delivering on their election promise. If you voted for SF, they are delivering on their election promises.
They could deliver on that particular promise by literally doing nothing. Let's have a civic reception for them.
The biggest part you didn't get was the mandate given to them by their voters to not remain with the status quo
Quote from: haranguerer on March 27, 2017, 03:22:00 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on March 27, 2017, 02:09:53 PM
If you always wait for the other side to do something you get nowhere. Not only should our politicians be reaching out but it is incumbent on all of us to make some effort to reach out rather than give out all the time about themuns. As Clinton said we should expand Us and reduce Them.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 27, 2017, 03:22:00 PM
You're acknowledging SF have continually made un-reciprocated effort, and seem to be slating them for not continuing to do so. Surely you can see there comes a point where you have to stand up for your own mandate?
Not SF, only Martin McGuinness working alone made the effort, not a single member of the senior SF team followed his example. Standing up for your mandate and reaching out in imaginative ways to the unionist community by going around or over their political leaders are not mutually exclusive. Quote from: haranguerer on March 27, 2017, 03:22:00 PM
Re the iLA - you're not so stupid as to have actually bought that little line from the DUP, so you know thats rubbish
It is a fact that the St Andrews Agreement did not mention an Irish Language Act. The British Government put the agreement into law and Section 15 of the St Andrew's Bill states what is to be included in the 1998 Northern Ireland Act as law. Therefore, SF should be taking its executive colleagues to the courts if there is a refusal to meet the requirements of Section 28D of the Northern Ireland Act. This is what SF agreed to do with the Irish language in the St Andrews Agreement..........15 Strategies relating to Irish language and Ulster Scots language etc |
|
| After section 28C of the 1998 Act insert— |
10 |
"28D Strategies relating to Irish language and Ulster Scots language etc |
|
(1) The Executive Committee shall adopt a strategy setting out how it |
|
| proposes to enhance and protect the development of the Irish language. |
|
(2) The Executive Committee shall adopt a strategy setting out how it |
|
| proposes to enhance and develop the Ulster Scots language, heritage |
15 |
|
(3) The Executive Committee— |
|
(a) must keep under review each of the strategies; and |
|
(b) may from time to time adopt a new strategy or revise a |
|
|
Quote from: haranguerer on March 27, 2017, 03:22:00 PMRe the bill of rights - not a priority for whom? When will it be dealt with? What are negotiations for?
We already have a bill of rights from the European Court and it will only need to be replaced if the translation of European sourced law into UK law after Brexit does not include the European rights we already enjoy.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 27, 2017, 03:22:00 PM
Re equal marriage - what does 'an issue for the whole assembly mean??' How have the whole assembly got on in this area before? Is there an issue with SF seeking equality which DUP have consistently denied in these negotiations?
Equal marriage is an issue that has come before the Assembly and on the last occasion is was voted down by the use of the POC by the DUP. Despite recent changes putting the DUP below the 30 seats required to bring a POC forward, I have no doubt that any Equal Marriage legislation would again manage to find 30 signatures of DUP and other unionists to have it voted down again. POC was an element of the GFA and if it is the problem then negotiate to have the GFA amended, do not take Equal Marriage as the issue and claim it has to do with equality, it is to do with this technical 'procedure' of the POC that is the real issue and much more difficult to deal with. A change to weighted majority voting would be preferable which would require a cross community support.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 27, 2017, 03:22:00 PM
Re legacy - on the one hand you say deal before was poor, on the other you say shouldn't be negotiating on it ::) You also know, despite your statements to the contrary that this is an area where the british govt will be lead by the parties here
The British will take this to the public for their lead. The public will want a more comprehensive solution but one which moves on. As the British were involved in the conflict then an international approach is required but given the British nationalistic mood in Brexit, this will be difficult to achieve but it is not something that should prevent the Assembly from getting back to business.
Quote from: Man Marker on March 27, 2017, 04:14:23 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 27, 2017, 03:35:32 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on March 27, 2017, 02:12:05 PM
Not one bit surprised by this, SF said before the election that the Status Quo would not return, that meant serious work from the British/Irish government and the DUP with SF, it never happened, they are delivering on their election promise. If you voted for SF, they are delivering on their election promises.
They could deliver on that particular promise by literally doing nothing. Let's have a civic reception for them.
The biggest part you didn't get was the mandate given to them by their voters to not remain with the status quo
No no, i got that. I'm just not daft enough to think that what they're doing is "delivering" on anything.
Quote from: Man Marker on March 27, 2017, 02:12:05 PM
Not one bit surprised by this, SF said before the election that the Status Quo would not return, that meant serious work from the British/Irish government and the DUP with SF, it never happened, they are delivering on their election promise. If you voted for SF, they are delivering on their election promises.
What does that mean? They keep repeating it but it is not clearly defined. How can you negotiate without defining what is meant by the status quo not returning?
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on March 27, 2017, 04:59:47 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on March 27, 2017, 02:12:05 PM
Not one bit surprised by this, SF said before the election that the Status Quo would not return, that meant serious work from the British/Irish government and the DUP with SF, it never happened, they are delivering on their election promise. If you voted for SF, they are delivering on their election promises.
What does that mean? They keep repeating it but it is not clearly defined. How can you negotiate without defining what is meant by the status quo not returning?
Pretty sure they did spell it out, you've been scoffing at it all day.
Quote from: AQMP on March 27, 2017, 04:39:22 PM
Brokenshire - "No appetite for a 2nd election"
If the SF and DUP want to play grown ups they should just get on with it. London Dublin and Washington have enough to be doing without babysitting the Stormont groups.
When Brexit kicks in there wont be too may demanding a Irish Language Act
The British government have been repressing the Irish language for hundreds of years, the proposed act seems a modest effort enough response and should have been here years ago.
Health service in crisis,Brexit no plan,no budget,yet a bloody needless Irish Language Act,that the vast majority on both sides doesn't give a shit about and is not needed,is the focus of attention??
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 08:35:12 PM
The British government have been repressing the Irish language for hundreds of years, the proposed act seems a modest effort enough response and should have been here years ago.
So in your estimation what would be the initial costs and running costs? What percentage of NI would benefit from this and based on other more important things like health jobs homeless and other (imo) important things ( once there is an UI would that not be covered??)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 09:14:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 08:35:12 PM
The British government have been repressing the Irish language for hundreds of years, the proposed act seems a modest effort enough response and should have been here years ago.
So in your estimation what would be the initial costs and running costs? What percentage of NI would benefit from this and based on other more important things like health jobs homeless and other (imo) important things ( once there is an UI would that not be covered??)
There are estimates for this and presumably the spending will provide jobs as other spending does. There are many things to be done to improve health that do not require cultural repression. There is a great deal of money wasted in NI public services.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 09:18:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 09:14:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 08:35:12 PM
The British government have been repressing the Irish language for hundreds of years, the proposed act seems a modest effort enough response and should have been here years ago.
So in your estimation what would be the initial costs and running costs? What percentage of NI would benefit from this and based on other more important things like health jobs homeless and other (imo) important things ( once there is an UI would that not be covered??)
There are estimates for this and presumably the spending will provide jobs as other spending does. There are many things to be done to improve health that do not require cultural repression. There is a great deal of money wasted in NI public services.
I've been playing Gaelic games and continue to do so for 35 years, club has had Irish classes for as long as I can remember and I've never known it to be repressed I've also never seen it too busy or people clambering for lessons ... Irish is everywhere in Belfast with schools dedicated to Irish language ...
I think the cost of this could run in to tens if not hundreds of millions
Is this really the plan? SF readying for another Assembly election?
(http://i.imgur.com/8lNE5In.jpg)
Why has everything to do with cost. People need to wake up and see that a united country has f**k all to do with cost
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 09:25:39 PM
I've been playing Gaelic games and continue to do so for 35 years, club has had Irish classes for as long as I can remember and I've never known it to be repressed I've also never seen it too busy or people clambering for lessons ... Irish is everywhere in Belfast with schools dedicated to Irish language ...
Exactly, Irish is see as something in the private sphere, not part of the public one.
[quote[I think the cost of this could run in to tens if not hundreds of millions
[/quote]
The DUP are not opposed to this because of the cost, they are opposed to this because they wish to pretend that it is not Ireland. The sad thing is that a lot of people suffering from Stockholm syndrome think it perfectly normal that they would behave in this bigoted way.
Quote from: Hereiam on March 27, 2017, 10:48:45 PM
Why has everything to do with cost. People need to wake up and see that a united country has f**k all to do with cost
Tell me about this united country you speak of and its relation to yet another election here?
Quote from: Hereiam on March 27, 2017, 10:48:45 PM
Why has everything to do with cost. People need to wake up and see that a united country has f**k all to do with cost
Do you feel any less Irish than someone in Cavan?
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 10:52:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 09:25:39 PM
I've been playing Gaelic games and continue to do so for 35 years, club has had Irish classes for as long as I can remember and I've never known it to be repressed I've also never seen it too busy or people clambering for lessons ... Irish is everywhere in Belfast with schools dedicated to Irish language ...
Exactly, Irish is see as something in the private sphere, not part of the public one.
[quote[I think the cost of this could run in to tens if not hundreds of millions
The DUP are not opposed to this because of the cost, they are opposed to this because they wish to pretend that it is not Ireland. The sad thing is that a lot of people suffering from Stockholm syndrome think it perfectly normal that they would behave in this bigoted way.
[/quote]
But it will continue (if it happens) to be used by a very small minority within one grouping...
speaking Irish is something schools have been doing for a long time, and like I said been available in most GAA clubs, learning another language is difficult enough for school kids who can't even do simple maths!!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 11:02:52 PM
But it will continue (if it happens) to be used by a very small minority within one grouping...
It was used by everyone before the British drove it out.
Quotespeaking Irish is something schools have been doing for a long time, and like I said been available in most GAA clubs, learning another language is difficult enough for school kids who can't even do simple maths!!
Teach them before they go to school, then.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 11:06:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 11:02:52 PM
But it will continue (if it happens) to be used by a very small minority within one grouping...
It was used by everyone before the British drove it out.
Quotespeaking Irish is something schools have been doing for a long time, and like I said been available in most GAA clubs, learning another language is difficult enough for school kids who can't even do simple maths!!
Teach them before they go to school, then.
Well would we need an Irish language act then??
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 11:25:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 11:06:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 11:02:52 PM
But it will continue (if it happens) to be used by a very small minority within one grouping...
It was used by everyone before the British drove it out.
Quotespeaking Irish is something schools have been doing for a long time, and like I said been available in most GAA clubs, learning another language is difficult enough for school kids who can't even do simple maths!!
Teach them before they go to school, then.
Well would we need an Irish language act then??
So that those children are not then required to use English to know where they are.
I never siad i wanted another election. I think its a stupid move if SF think they can increase there vote.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 11:30:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 11:25:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 11:06:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 11:02:52 PM
But it will continue (if it happens) to be used by a very small minority within one grouping...
It was used by everyone before the British drove it out.
Quotespeaking Irish is something schools have been doing for a long time, and like I said been available in most GAA clubs, learning another language is difficult enough for school kids who can't even do simple maths!!
Teach them before they go to school, then.
Well would we need an Irish language act then??
So that those children are not then required to use English to know where they are.
They don't have to!...
If you need an Irish language act to feel more Irish then that's fine.... no one has taken away your Irishness and an act won't make it any different.. if the South has not changed its language in it's near 100 years of freedom from the brits, what makes you think an act up here will change it ?
I'm all for Irish language, but it won't make me more Irish and if I used it in my day to day job I'd not make it to then end of the week...
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 11:44:23 PM
I'm all for Irish language, but it won't make me more Irish and if I used it in my day to day job I'd not make it to then end of the week...
Why not?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 11:44:23 PM
If you need an Irish language act to feel more Irish then that's fine.... no one has taken away your Irishness and an act won't make it any different.. if the South has not changed its language in it's near 100 years of freedom from the brits, what makes you think an act up here will change it ?
Perhaps no one has taken away my Irishness, but it wasn't for lack of trying. I see no reason for one part of Ireland to have a different status in relation to Irish than another.
QuoteI'm all for Irish language,
Yeah, right.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 11:44:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 11:30:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 11:25:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 11:06:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 11:02:52 PM
But it will continue (if it happens) to be used by a very small minority within one grouping...
It was used by everyone before the British drove it out.
Quotespeaking Irish is something schools have been doing for a long time, and like I said been available in most GAA clubs, learning another language is difficult enough for school kids who can't even do simple maths!!
Teach them before they go to school, then.
Well would we need an Irish language act then??
So that those children are not then required to use English to know where they are.
They don't have to!...
If you need an Irish language act to feel more Irish then that's fine.... no one has taken away your Irishness and an act won't make it any different.. if the South has not changed its language in it's near 100 years of freedom from the brits, what makes you think an act up here will change it ?
I'm all for Irish language, but it won't make me more Irish and if I used it in my day to day job I'd not make it to then end of the week...
Its the DUP's attitude to all things Irish under Foster and their denial of the right to be Irish as "we're all British, end of discussion" in their eyes.
There was an article a while back about how far she personally got involved in preventing the tourist board from putting up bi-lingual signs for St Patricks Trail in South Down tells you all you need to know about her attitude to those of us who're Irish in the wee six.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 28, 2017, 08:56:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 11:44:23 PM
I'm all for Irish language, but it won't make me more Irish and if I used it in my day to day job I'd not make it to then end of the week...
Why not?
Why not? what line of work do you do? Irish teacher?
Quote from: Hereiam on March 27, 2017, 10:48:45 PM
Why has everything to do with cost. People need to wake up and see that a united country has f**k all to do with cost
If I or my family are going to be worse off as part of a United Ireland then I'll not be voting for one!!
Quote from: Hereiam on March 27, 2017, 10:48:45 PM
Why has everything to do with cost. People need to wake up and see that a united country has f**k all to do with cost
You are being a bit naieve there. Of course it has to do with costs. If a united Ireland cannot provide better services, education health care of the sick and deprived and overall a more fairer system of administration what is the point?
People arent going to be happy in some glorified Socialist republic kneeling before murals of Bobby Sands and El Presidento Adams
The economic case must be met to show that a unified approach with cooperation of all can deliver an economy which serves five/six million people. Agriculture Pharmaceutical Green energy tourism are all areas which can be developed to provide a long term successful economy
The ILA is such a misnomer, why would an Irish Speaker need a British institution to give recognition and approval for the very words that come out of their mouths.
What some on here fail to grasp is that a large proportion of SF voters don't give a fig about Stormont, whether it stays or goes.
Quote from: AQMP on March 28, 2017, 09:26:08 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 09:25:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 09:18:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 09:14:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 08:35:12 PM
The British government have been repressing the Irish language for hundreds of years, the proposed act seems a modest effort enough response and should have been here years ago.
So in your estimation what would be the initial costs and running costs? What percentage of NI would benefit from this and based on other more important things like health jobs homeless and other (imo) important things ( once there is an UI would that not be covered??)
There are estimates for this and presumably the spending will provide jobs as other spending does. There are many things to be done to improve health that do not require cultural repression. There is a great deal of money wasted in NI public services.
I've been playing Gaelic games and continue to do so for 35 years, club has had Irish classes for as long as I can remember and I've never known it to be repressed I've also never seen it too busy or people clambering for lessons ... Irish is everywhere in Belfast with schools dedicated to Irish language ...
I think the cost of this could run in to tens if not hundreds of millions
Really?? Hundreds of millions of pounds to implement an Irish Language Act??
It's hard to fully cost an ILA since we don't know what the full remit and provisions of an Act would be yet. However didn't Conradh na Gaeilge put forward their version costed at £8 million one-off infrastructure costs and then £2 mill a year running costs?
Again we dont know the cost.... so me saying 10 million upwards i could be right i could be wrong, i just dont think i need to be paying out more tax money on something that i can do now anyway for free.
most of the streets in nationalist areas are named in Irish (most be a nightmare for postmen) anyways we have a Irish show on BBC 2 every week (could be more if there was more intreset i suppose) and on the radio also, TG4 is a dedicated irish TV programme with all things Irish, wouldnt know the viewing figures on it but i watch it every Sunday when there is a game on.
My Irishness is not under threat and has actually improved since the 70's, club tops are common practice in all colleges now with the games being held at state of the art facilities... I fail to see where we are being repressed and i fail to see how the growth of Irish is being stopped? You will get that bigots that will try and stem it but its not stopped me from playing volunteering/coaching or officating gaelic games
Quote from: MoChara on March 28, 2017, 09:29:31 AM
The ILA is such a misnomer, why would an Irish Speaker need a British institution to give recognition and approval for the very words that come out of their mouths.
Because, believe it or not, in the North, it'll be that institution (whether Stormont or Westminster) that'll pay for it out of its budget?
I feel there are other areas to lay the boot into the DUP that wouldnt get the back up of 'normal Prods' and get that vote out for them to improve their standing, a political own goal in my view... But I'm no expert on this
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2017, 09:51:28 AM
most of the streets in nationalist areas are named in Irish (most be a nightmare for postmen) anyways we have a Irish show on BBC 2 every week (could be more if there was more intreset i suppose) and on the radio also, TG4 is a dedicated irish TV programme with all things Irish, wouldnt know the viewing figures on it but i watch it every Sunday when there is a game on.
Why only street in nationalist areas, why not all areas? Why have only pidgin English versions of placenames?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2017, 11:03:11 AM
I feel there are other areas to lay the boot into the DUP that wouldnt get the back up of 'normal Prods' and get that vote out for them to improve their standing, a political own goal in my view... But I'm no expert on this
Why does this get the back of 'normal Prods', what is in the least bit objectionable about it?
SF AFAIK will not want another election because at the moment their vote is close to capacity and the DUP can still recover ground.
I think the most likely outcome is another fudge deal at the last minute to get the institutions back up and running muddling through for another period of time until the next flare up.
The thing is that with UK government going to be so distracted by Brexit for the next 4/5 years at least, chances of them tolerating any crap from this neck of the woods is slim, so I would say there will be a fair few ultimatums fired about in the next couple of weeks to SF & the DUP to get this sorted.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2017, 09:08:18 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 28, 2017, 08:56:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 11:44:23 PM
I'm all for Irish language, but it won't make me more Irish and if I used it in my day to day job I'd not make it to then end of the week...
Why not?
Why not? what line of work do you do? Irish teacher?
I don't know why you're answering a simple question with a question, and an irrelevant one at that.
I asked because what you said seemed to be so ironic that I wasn't sure if I'd picked you up right. Your whole argument seemed to be that Irish wasn't repressed, but in the very next sentence, unless I've picked you up wrong (which is why I asked for clarity) you seem to be suggesting you'd get sacked for using it in work...
Quote from: armaghniac on March 28, 2017, 11:06:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2017, 09:51:28 AM
most of the streets in nationalist areas are named in Irish (most be a nightmare for postmen) anyways we have a Irish show on BBC 2 every week (could be more if there was more intreset i suppose) and on the radio also, TG4 is a dedicated irish TV programme with all things Irish, wouldnt know the viewing figures on it but i watch it every Sunday when there is a game on.
Why only street in nationalist areas, why not all areas? Why have only pidgin English versions of placenames?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2017, 11:03:11 AM
I feel there are other areas to lay the boot into the DUP that wouldnt get the back up of 'normal Prods' and get that vote out for them to improve their standing, a political own goal in my view... But I'm no expert on this
Why does this get the back of 'normal Prods', what is in the least bit objectionable about it?
I would imagine paying for something that they will neither watch/listen to or be involved in, I'm not interested in paying for it myself as i paying plenty in tax as it is for services i dont even use, which is being mainly used by people that dont pay tax!!
and for the first question, you're not fussed on the english signposts so why do you think that prods be happy with Irish ones? Whether you like it or not we are using English every day, you are currently posting on an Irish sports fourm in english...
I've wondered why Gerry Adams, who is a TD in Louth, appears to be playing such a prominent part in the talks process for SF in the north. If they appointed Michelle O'Neill as leader in the north then at least show some trust in her ability to get on with the job. Otherwise why appoint her. The perception is that Gerry Adams is back running the party and that cannot be a positive for Sinn Fein. All of the goodwill generated from Martin McGuinness is in danger of being squandered by the party. If they didn't trust O'Neill to run the party then someone like Conor Murphy should have been appointed as leader in the north.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 28, 2017, 11:12:08 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2017, 09:08:18 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 28, 2017, 08:56:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 11:44:23 PM
I'm all for Irish language, but it won't make me more Irish and if I used it in my day to day job I'd not make it to then end of the week...
Why not?
Why not? what line of work do you do? Irish teacher?
I don't know why you're answering a simple question with a question, and an irrelevant one at that.
I asked because what you said seemed to be so ironic that I wasn't sure if I'd picked you up right. Your whole argument seemed to be that Irish wasn't repressed, but in the very next sentence, unless I've picked you up wrong (which is why I asked for clarity) you seem to be suggesting you'd get sacked for using it in work...
I didnt say id get sacked but when you deal in medical sales you are dealing with the public, asking medical questions and prescribing, if i did it in Irish all the time i wouldnt be doing well and only dealing with a small minority that actually speak irish from a nationalist grouping and none at all in a non nationalist grouping.... sorry for not explaining that properly to you
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2017, 11:30:02 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 28, 2017, 11:12:08 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2017, 09:08:18 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 28, 2017, 08:56:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 11:44:23 PM
I'm all for Irish language, but it won't make me more Irish and if I used it in my day to day job I'd not make it to then end of the week...
Why not?
Why not? what line of work do you do? Irish teacher?
I don't know why you're answering a simple question with a question, and an irrelevant one at that.
I asked because what you said seemed to be so ironic that I wasn't sure if I'd picked you up right. Your whole argument seemed to be that Irish wasn't repressed, but in the very next sentence, unless I've picked you up wrong (which is why I asked for clarity) you seem to be suggesting you'd get sacked for using it in work...
I didnt say id get sacked but when you deal in medical sales you are dealing with the public, asking medical questions and prescribing, if i did it in Irish all the time i wouldnt be doing well and only dealing with a small minority that actually speak irish from a nationalist grouping and none at all in a non nationalist grouping.... sorry for not explaining that properly to you
Ní raibh mé a rá id fháil sacked ach nuair a ndéileálann tú i ndíolacháin leighis tú ag déileáil leis an bpobal, ag cur ceisteanna leighis agus ag ordú, má rinne mé é i nGaeilge an t-am i wouldnt a bheith ag éirí go maith agus ní raibh ach ag déileáil le mionlach beag a labhairt iarbhír irish ó grúpáil náisiúnach agus aon cheann ar chor ar bith i grúpáil neamh náisiúnach .... leithscéal as nach ag míniú go cuí a thabhairt duit
Google translate is your friend!! ;D ;D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2017, 11:30:02 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 28, 2017, 11:12:08 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2017, 09:08:18 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 28, 2017, 08:56:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 11:44:23 PM
I'm all for Irish language, but it won't make me more Irish and if I used it in my day to day job I'd not make it to then end of the week...
Why not?
Why not? what line of work do you do? Irish teacher?
I don't know why you're answering a simple question with a question, and an irrelevant one at that.
I asked because what you said seemed to be so ironic that I wasn't sure if I'd picked you up right. Your whole argument seemed to be that Irish wasn't repressed, but in the very next sentence, unless I've picked you up wrong (which is why I asked for clarity) you seem to be suggesting you'd get sacked for using it in work...
I didnt say id get sacked but when you deal in medical sales you are dealing with the public, asking medical questions and prescribing, if i did it in Irish all the time i wouldnt be doing well and only dealing with a small minority that actually speak irish from a nationalist grouping and none at all in a non nationalist grouping.... sorry for not explaining that properly to you
Thanks for explaining it properly. So you meant if you spoke Irish to everyone, regardless of whether they speak it or not, you wouldn't do well at work. I get it now, and that's true. An iLA wouldn't force you to speak Irish though, so I still don't get why you'd do that?
Quote from: AQMP on March 28, 2017, 10:29:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2017, 09:51:28 AM
Quote from: AQMP on March 28, 2017, 09:26:08 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 09:25:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 09:18:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 09:14:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 08:35:12 PM
The British government have been repressing the Irish language for hundreds of years, the proposed act seems a modest effort enough response and should have been here years ago.
So in your estimation what would be the initial costs and running costs? What percentage of NI would benefit from this and based on other more important things like health jobs homeless and other (imo) important things ( once there is an UI would that not be covered??)
There are estimates for this and presumably the spending will provide jobs as other spending does. There are many things to be done to improve health that do not require cultural repression. There is a great deal of money wasted in NI public services.
I've been playing Gaelic games and continue to do so for 35 years, club has had Irish classes for as long as I can remember and I've never known it to be repressed I've also never seen it too busy or people clambering for lessons ... Irish is everywhere in Belfast with schools dedicated to Irish language ...
I think the cost of this could run in to tens if not hundreds of millions
Really?? Hundreds of millions of pounds to implement an Irish Language Act??
It's hard to fully cost an ILA since we don't know what the full remit and provisions of an Act would be yet. However didn't Conradh na Gaeilge put forward their version costed at £8 million one-off infrastructure costs and then £2 mill a year running costs?
Again we dont know the cost.... so me saying 10 million upwards i could be right i could be wrong, i just dont think i need to be paying out more tax money on something that i can do now anyway for free.
most of the streets in nationalist areas are named in Irish (most be a nightmare for postmen) anyways we have a Irish show on BBC 2 every week (could be more if there was more intreset i suppose) and on the radio also, TG4 is a dedicated irish TV programme with all things Irish, wouldnt know the viewing figures on it but i watch it every Sunday when there is a game on.
My Irishness is not under threat and has actually improved since the 70's, club tops are common practice in all colleges now with the games being held at state of the art facilities... I fail to see where we are being repressed and i fail to see how the growth of Irish is being stopped? You will get that bigots that will try and stem it but its not stopped me from playing volunteering/coaching or officating gaelic games
I think we may be in agreement here MR2 just arguing over the detail! Although I'm 100% in favour of the preservation and development of the Irish language, personally I'm not convinced on the need for an ILA as a mechanism for doing that. Using CnaG figures, they estimated that part of the £2mill a year running costs of the ILA would be a Language Commissioner's Office, staffed at at a cost of £300k - £400k per year. I'd much rather that money was spent on Liofa grants etc or funding for communities like Slaughtneil/Carntogher to make themselves Gaeltacht area (if the demand is there). There we have an area where approx 200 families are bi-lingual and presumably a number of them will continue that into the next generation. Legislating to make BBCNI produce more Irish language offerings is not really the way forward.
However I fully understand when people's backs are got up by Foster saying things like "if people want to learn Irish they should be allowed to" as if that's something in the gift of Unionists. Also when she was the minister responsible for NITB she blocked bi-lingual signs at some tourist attractions, refused to bring "The Gathering" to the North (OK that turned out to be a load of keek but that's not why she blocked it!) and also was against the extension of the Wild Atlantic Way in the North.
I did hear from someone involved very much in the Tourism industry that in talks between the South and North tourists groups that the North reps did not want the Wild Atlantic Way to include the beautiful North Derry and Antrim coastline. They wanted it isolated to be the Northern Way wth signs predominantly in blue red and white. The goodwill is not there as long as Westmister is givings subsidies
Quote from: armaghniac on March 28, 2017, 11:06:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2017, 09:51:28 AM
most of the streets in nationalist areas are named in Irish (most be a nightmare for postmen) anyways we have a Irish show on BBC 2 every week (could be more if there was more intreset i suppose) and on the radio also, TG4 is a dedicated irish TV programme with all things Irish, wouldnt know the viewing figures on it but i watch it every Sunday when there is a game on.
Why only street in nationalist areas, why not all areas? Why have only pidgin English versions of placenames?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2017, 11:03:11 AM
I feel there are other areas to lay the boot into the DUP that wouldnt get the back up of 'normal Prods' and get that vote out for them to improve their standing, a political own goal in my view... But I'm no expert on this
Why does this get the back of 'normal Prods', what is in the least bit objectionable about it?
Irish is a language thousands of years old and is not pidgin English.
Until the days comes that the man in the street can walk into a shop and have the confidence to order a packet of cigarettes through the medium of Irish the language will flounder.
If one group persists in using it as a cultural weapon it will never be revived
Now that Martins funeral has passed I think it's becoming more obvious that he was holding the mess together. Sinn Fein with an unelected Gerry Adams back in the north undermining their elected northern leader is definitely a backward step. Seeing him on TV in recent weeks it's obvious that he can't lace Martins boots in dealing with the DUP.
As for an Irish Language Act. Just another example of the soft corruption that goes on in politics the world over. Many of the people other than teachers who benefit financially from public money being put into the Irish language in the north are friends of Sinn Fein some of which here in Derry City are ex-prisoners. It's just a case of Gerry looking out for some of his old comrades and their relatives. To have it as a 'red line' and something that could actually bring down the so called government here is utterly ridiculous in my view.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 28, 2017, 11:45:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2017, 11:30:02 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 28, 2017, 11:12:08 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2017, 09:08:18 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 28, 2017, 08:56:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 11:44:23 PM
I'm all for Irish language, but it won't make me more Irish and if I used it in my day to day job I'd not make it to then end of the week...
Why not?
Why not? what line of work do you do? Irish teacher?
I don't know why you're answering a simple question with a question, and an irrelevant one at that.
I asked because what you said seemed to be so ironic that I wasn't sure if I'd picked you up right. Your whole argument seemed to be that Irish wasn't repressed, but in the very next sentence, unless I've picked you up wrong (which is why I asked for clarity) you seem to be suggesting you'd get sacked for using it in work...
I didnt say id get sacked but when you deal in medical sales you are dealing with the public, asking medical questions and prescribing, if i did it in Irish all the time i wouldnt be doing well and only dealing with a small minority that actually speak irish from a nationalist grouping and none at all in a non nationalist grouping.... sorry for not explaining that properly to you
Thanks for explaining it properly. So you meant if you spoke Irish to everyone, regardless of whether they speak it or not, you wouldn't do well at work. I get it now, and that's true. An iLA wouldn't force you to speak Irish though, so I still don't get why you'd do that?
I didnt say it would, i just said if i used Irish in my day to day it wouldnt see me through the week... you brought up being sacked, putting other words into a post doesnt mean i said them
Quote from: OakleafCounty on March 28, 2017, 12:36:56 PM
As for an Irish Language Act. Just another example of the soft corruption that goes on in politics the world over. Many of the people other than teachers who benefit financially from public money being put into the Irish language in the north are friends of Sinn Fein some of which here in Derry City are ex-prisoners. It's just a case of Gerry looking out for some of his old comrades and their relatives. To have it as a 'red line' and something that could actually bring down the so called government here is utterly ridiculous in my view.
Why, other than bigotry, should it bring the government down or be contentious at all?
Quote from: armaghniac on March 28, 2017, 01:59:48 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on March 28, 2017, 12:36:56 PM
As for an Irish Language Act. Just another example of the soft corruption that goes on in politics the world over. Many of the people other than teachers who benefit financially from public money being put into the Irish language in the north are friends of Sinn Fein some of which here in Derry City are ex-prisoners. It's just a case of Gerry looking out for some of his old comrades and their relatives. To have it as a 'red line' and something that could actually bring down the so called government here is utterly ridiculous in my view.
Why, other than bigotry, should it bring the government down or be contentious at all?
Correct. The fact that this could potentially bring down a "government" is not Sinn Fein's issue. All ire in this regard should be directed at the the DUP. Directing it at SF only serves to condone the DUP's uber bigotry. The high court have already ruled on this.
Quote from: Franko on March 28, 2017, 02:05:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 28, 2017, 01:59:48 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on March 28, 2017, 12:36:56 PM
As for an Irish Language Act. Just another example of the soft corruption that goes on in politics the world over. Many of the people other than teachers who benefit financially from public money being put into the Irish language in the north are friends of Sinn Fein some of which here in Derry City are ex-prisoners. It's just a case of Gerry looking out for some of his old comrades and their relatives. To have it as a 'red line' and something that could actually bring down the so called government here is utterly ridiculous in my view.
Why, other than bigotry, should it bring the government down or be contentious at all?
Correct. The fact that this could potentially bring down a "government" is not Sinn Fein's issue. All ire in this regard should be directed at the the DUP. Directing it at SF only serves to condone the DUP's uber bigotry. The high court have already ruled on this.
Indeed, in the "dealing with the past" there might be some issues on which the DUP would be entitled to have a strong opinion, but the Irish language act should never have been an issue at all.
Quote from: gallsman on March 28, 2017, 10:14:03 AM
Quote from: MoChara on March 28, 2017, 09:29:31 AM
The ILA is such a misnomer, why would an Irish Speaker need a British institution to give recognition and approval for the very words that come out of their mouths.
Because, believe it or not, in the North, it'll be that institution (whether Stormont or Westminster) that'll pay for it out of its budget?
Bearing in mind we don't actually know what an ILA would look like how do you know its going to be any more than tokenism?
We already have Irish Schools and Irish signs where they are requested, and Irish Classes for adults quite widely available so the ILA seems to be more a push for recognition rather than progress.
Quote from: MoChara on March 28, 2017, 02:47:33 PM
We already have Irish Schools and Irish signs where they are requested, and Irish Classes for adults quite widely available so the ILA seems to be more a push for recognition rather than progress.
We certainly do not have Irish language signs where requested.
But even if it is only a push for recognition, should a language not be recognised in its own land?
Quote from: armaghniac on March 28, 2017, 01:59:48 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on March 28, 2017, 12:36:56 PM
As for an Irish Language Act. Just another example of the soft corruption that goes on in politics the world over. Many of the people other than teachers who benefit financially from public money being put into the Irish language in the north are friends of Sinn Fein some of which here in Derry City are ex-prisoners. It's just a case of Gerry looking out for some of his old comrades and their relatives. To have it as a 'red line' and something that could actually bring down the so called government here is utterly ridiculous in my view.
Why, other than bigotry, should it bring the government down or be contentious at all?
It definitely shouldn't be contentious because of bigotry. But the cost and who will benefit from it could easily be contentious. Me or my family certainly won't benefit from it but our taxes will be spent on it. I have nothing against the Irish language but I don't see why public money should be thrown at it while the country's broke. I'm getting sick of my taxes being spent on cultural and sporting organisations that should really be privately financed while the NHS is collapsing and the social housing need can't be met for a lack of available funds.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 28, 2017, 02:54:40 PM
Quote from: MoChara on March 28, 2017, 02:47:33 PM
We already have Irish Schools and Irish signs where they are requested, and Irish Classes for adults quite widely available so the ILA seems to be more a push for recognition rather than progress.
We certainly do not have Irish language signs where requested.
But even if it is only a push for recognition, should a language not be recognised in its own land?
Irish signs have been put up in my area at the request of the local populace I can't imagine its different in Armagh.
The Irish Language is recognized all over Ireland as the native Language, I don't see how a governmental bill affects that, other than having a British Parliament officially accepting it.
Quote from: OakleafCounty on March 28, 2017, 03:31:23 PM
It definitely shouldn't be contentious because of bigotry. But the cost and who will benefit from it could easily be contentious. Me or my family certainly won't benefit from it but our taxes will be spent on it. I have nothing against the Irish language but I don't see why public money should be thrown at it while the country's broke. I'm getting sick of my taxes being spent on cultural and sporting organisations that should really be privately financed while the NHS is collapsing and the social housing need can't be met for a lack of available funds.
The amount of money here is not material, we all pay taxes for things that we personally will never use. If you are of Irish orientation then you can use the service, if not then you don't. People have a right not to have their own language repressed in their own country and this is not dependent on how many have gone over to the English. Having your own culture might be as important as having a bigger council house, not everyone is mercenary. In any case, if money was the issue the DUP could say go off and identify savings to pay for it, but even if SF did they still wouldn't be happy because their attitudes are rooted in bigotry.
Quote from: MoChara on March 28, 2017, 03:42:57 PM
Irish signs have been put up in my area at the request of the local populace I can't imagine its different in Armagh.
I'd say half the councils in the 6 counties have no Irish signs whatsoever. There is no Roads Service Irish sign. Even on a street if a few oppose it then no sign is erected.
QuoteThe Irish Language is recognized all over Ireland as the native Language,
Really. Does the DUP so recognise it?
Quote from: OakleafCounty on March 28, 2017, 03:31:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 28, 2017, 01:59:48 PM
Quote from: OakleafCounty on March 28, 2017, 12:36:56 PM
As for an Irish Language Act. Just another example of the soft corruption that goes on in politics the world over. Many of the people other than teachers who benefit financially from public money being put into the Irish language in the north are friends of Sinn Fein some of which here in Derry City are ex-prisoners. It's just a case of Gerry looking out for some of his old comrades and their relatives. To have it as a 'red line' and something that could actually bring down the so called government here is utterly ridiculous in my view.
Why, other than bigotry, should it bring the government down or be contentious at all?
It definitely shouldn't be contentious because of bigotry. But the cost and who will benefit from it could easily be contentious. Me or my family certainly won't benefit from it but our taxes will be spent on it. I have nothing against the Irish language but I don't see why public money should be thrown at it while the country's broke. I'm getting sick of my taxes being spent on cultural and sporting organisations that should really be privately financed while the NHS is collapsing and the social housing need can't be met for a lack of available funds.
Try substituting the words Royal Family where the words Irish Language or Sporting & Cultural appear above for a real waste of money.
https://www.ft.com/content/ed4b30e4-13c4-11e7-b0c1-37e417ee6c76
How can Northern Ireland's political crisis be resolved?
Brexit fears and grandstanding put the focus on Sinn Fein and DUP, writes Sebastian Payne
5 hours ago
by: Sebastian Payne
Politics in Northern Ireland is in stasis, if not stalemate. The collapse of the power-sharing talks on Monday between nationalists Sinn Fein and the Democratic Unionist party has raised two prospects: another round of assembly elections or direct rule from London. The latter is unpalatable to both sides. Just as the UK government is about to fire the starting gun on Brexit, it does not have the political capacity or will to run Northern Ireland too. For the DUP, direct rule would likely bolster Sinn Fein, providing further ammunition for its claims about Westminster's imperial ambitions.There appears to be little appetite for more elections either. The result of the recent assembly elections produced a tight result, with the DUP just one seat ahead of Sinn Fein. A further ballot is unlikely to produce a clearer outcome. Although both parties appear resolute, James Brokenshire, the Northern Ireland secretary, has made the right decision to hand budget control to civil servants and give both sides another couple of weeks to broker a deal. As Vincent Boland has reported, progress on policy has been made behind the scenes and an agreement still seems possible. Yet stumbling blocks remain.
The biggest is Arlene Foster, the current leader of the DUP. Her role in the "cash for ash" subsidies scandal, combined with the party's election losses, should have led to her resignation. But Ms Foster appears impervious to criticism and now that Sinn Fein is calling for her to go, there seems little prospect of her stepping down of her own accord. If Northern Ireland does go through another round of elections and the DUP loses more seats, her position might become untenable. Or she might decide to accede to some of Sinn Fein's legislative demands and find a deal that works.But what makes the current stand-off particularly acute is Brexit. The DUP's decision to support Britain's departure from the EU made sense for the party's Westminster MPs, who were allying themselves with much of the Conservative party.
However, in Northern Ireland, the prospect of a hard border and questions over the customs union have hindered the party. It is too late now and Sinn Fein have taken advantage of the uncertainty.One of the reasons the current negotiations have failed is the death of Martin McGuinness. The former deputy first minister and Irish Republican Army commander was a formidable negotiator, but willing to compromise and concede. Gerry Adams, president of Sinn Fein, is much more ideological and intransigent, and Michelle O'Neill, the party's leader in Northern Ireland, does not have McGuinness's skills or experience.Despite these concerns, some sort of agreement, eventually, looks inevitable. Sinn Fein and the DUP are enjoying being back in the spotlight. But both parties know that they will have to get on with governing some day. The expectation (or hope) in Westminster is that once the triggering of Article 50 is out of the way, inertia will begin to give way to activity.
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 28, 2017, 11:52:08 AM
Quote from: AQMP on March 28, 2017, 10:29:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2017, 09:51:28 AM
Quote from: AQMP on March 28, 2017, 09:26:08 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 09:25:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 09:18:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 09:14:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 08:35:12 PM
The British government have been repressing the Irish language for hundreds of years, the proposed act seems a modest effort enough response and should have been here years ago.
So in your estimation what would be the initial costs and running costs? What percentage of NI would benefit from this and based on other more important things like health jobs homeless and other (imo) important things ( once there is an UI would that not be covered??)
There are estimates for this and presumably the spending will provide jobs as other spending does. There are many things to be done to improve health that do not require cultural repression. There is a great deal of money wasted in NI public services.
I've been playing Gaelic games and continue to do so for 35 years, club has had Irish classes for as long as I can remember and I've never known it to be repressed I've also never seen it too busy or people clambering for lessons ... Irish is everywhere in Belfast with schools dedicated to Irish language ...
I think the cost of this could run in to tens if not hundreds of millions
Really?? Hundreds of millions of pounds to implement an Irish Language Act??
It's hard to fully cost an ILA since we don't know what the full remit and provisions of an Act would be yet. However didn't Conradh na Gaeilge put forward their version costed at £8 million one-off infrastructure costs and then £2 mill a year running costs?
Again we dont know the cost.... so me saying 10 million upwards i could be right i could be wrong, i just dont think i need to be paying out more tax money on something that i can do now anyway for free.
most of the streets in nationalist areas are named in Irish (most be a nightmare for postmen) anyways we have a Irish show on BBC 2 every week (could be more if there was more intreset i suppose) and on the radio also, TG4 is a dedicated irish TV programme with all things Irish, wouldnt know the viewing figures on it but i watch it every Sunday when there is a game on.
My Irishness is not under threat and has actually improved since the 70's, club tops are common practice in all colleges now with the games being held at state of the art facilities... I fail to see where we are being repressed and i fail to see how the growth of Irish is being stopped? You will get that bigots that will try and stem it but its not stopped me from playing volunteering/coaching or officating gaelic games
I think we may be in agreement here MR2 just arguing over the detail! Although I'm 100% in favour of the preservation and development of the Irish language, personally I'm not convinced on the need for an ILA as a mechanism for doing that. Using CnaG figures, they estimated that part of the £2mill a year running costs of the ILA would be a Language Commissioner's Office, staffed at at a cost of £300k - £400k per year. I'd much rather that money was spent on Liofa grants etc or funding for communities like Slaughtneil/Carntogher to make themselves Gaeltacht area (if the demand is there). There we have an area where approx 200 families are bi-lingual and presumably a number of them will continue that into the next generation. Legislating to make BBCNI produce more Irish language offerings is not really the way forward.
However I fully understand when people's backs are got up by Foster saying things like "if people want to learn Irish they should be allowed to" as if that's something in the gift of Unionists. Also when she was the minister responsible for NITB she blocked bi-lingual signs at some tourist attractions, refused to bring "The Gathering" to the North (OK that turned out to be a load of keek but that's not why she blocked it!) and also was against the extension of the Wild Atlantic Way in the North.
I did hear from someone involved very much in the Tourism industry that in talks between the South and North tourists groups that the North reps did not want the Wild Atlantic Way to include the beautiful North Derry and Antrim coastline. They wanted it isolated to be the Northern Way wth signs predominantly in blue red and white. The goodwill is not there as long as Westmister is givings subsidies
I presume the Northern Way will follow the traditional marching route . Will it feature real croppies ?
Quote from: armaghniac on March 28, 2017, 06:08:43 PM
The amount of money here is not material, we all pay taxes for things that we personally will never use. Quote
When it's public money being spent of course it's material and a genuine need should be demonstrated. It's called governance which unfortunately isn't always done competently here (three new publicly funded stadiums in Belfast :-\ ) Especially when it comes to looking at who exactly will benefit financially from it.
If you are of Irish orientation then you can use the service, if not then you don't.Quote
Don't know what you're getting at here.
People have a right not to have their own language repressed in their own country and this is not dependent on how many have gone over to the English. Quote
'Gone over to English'. Sorry to burst your bubble but people of 'Irish orientation' have been speaking English as a first language for hundreds of years now. And the Irish textbook language as it is today isn't repressed in my view. I did is as a GCSE and I have loads of access to it. For free, without having to spend public money. The old dialect that my ancestors spoke died at least 100 years ago. In the north the last two dialects to die out were Rathlin (1960's) and the Glens of Antrim.
Having your own culture might be as important as having a bigger council house, not everyone is mercenary. Quote
It's not about wanting bigger 'council house'. It's a need provide people with homes. There's a massive gap between need and budget and yes, it is more important to put a roof over homeless peoples heads.
Quote from: seafoid on March 28, 2017, 09:46:59 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on March 28, 2017, 11:52:08 AM
Quote from: AQMP on March 28, 2017, 10:29:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2017, 09:51:28 AM
Quote from: AQMP on March 28, 2017, 09:26:08 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 09:25:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 09:18:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2017, 09:14:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2017, 08:35:12 PM
The British government have been repressing the Irish language for hundreds of years, the proposed act seems a modest effort enough response and should have been here years ago.
So in your estimation what would be the initial costs and running costs? What percentage of NI would benefit from this and based on other more important things like health jobs homeless and other (imo) important things ( once there is an UI would that not be covered??)
There are estimates for this and presumably the spending will provide jobs as other spending does. There are many things to be done to improve health that do not require cultural repression. There is a great deal of money wasted in NI public services.
I've been playing Gaelic games and continue to do so for 35 years, club has had Irish classes for as long as I can remember and I've never known it to be repressed I've also never seen it too busy or people clambering for lessons ... Irish is everywhere in Belfast with schools dedicated to Irish language ...
I think the cost of this could run in to tens if not hundreds of millions
Really?? Hundreds of millions of pounds to implement an Irish Language Act??
It's hard to fully cost an ILA since we don't know what the full remit and provisions of an Act would be yet. However didn't Conradh na Gaeilge put forward their version costed at £8 million one-off infrastructure costs and then £2 mill a year running costs?
Again we dont know the cost.... so me saying 10 million upwards i could be right i could be wrong, i just dont think i need to be paying out more tax money on something that i can do now anyway for free.
most of the streets in nationalist areas are named in Irish (most be a nightmare for postmen) anyways we have a Irish show on BBC 2 every week (could be more if there was more intreset i suppose) and on the radio also, TG4 is a dedicated irish TV programme with all things Irish, wouldnt know the viewing figures on it but i watch it every Sunday when there is a game on.
My Irishness is not under threat and has actually improved since the 70's, club tops are common practice in all colleges now with the games being held at state of the art facilities... I fail to see where we are being repressed and i fail to see how the growth of Irish is being stopped? You will get that bigots that will try and stem it but its not stopped me from playing volunteering/coaching or officating gaelic games
I think we may be in agreement here MR2 just arguing over the detail! Although I'm 100% in favour of the preservation and development of the Irish language, personally I'm not convinced on the need for an ILA as a mechanism for doing that. Using CnaG figures, they estimated that part of the £2mill a year running costs of the ILA would be a Language Commissioner's Office, staffed at at a cost of £300k - £400k per year. I'd much rather that money was spent on Liofa grants etc or funding for communities like Slaughtneil/Carntogher to make themselves Gaeltacht area (if the demand is there). There we have an area where approx 200 families are bi-lingual and presumably a number of them will continue that into the next generation. Legislating to make BBCNI produce more Irish language offerings is not really the way forward.
However I fully understand when people's backs are got up by Foster saying things like "if people want to learn Irish they should be allowed to" as if that's something in the gift of Unionists. Also when she was the minister responsible for NITB she blocked bi-lingual signs at some tourist attractions, refused to bring "The Gathering" to the North (OK that turned out to be a load of keek but that's not why she blocked it!) and also was against the extension of the Wild Atlantic Way in the North.
I did hear from someone involved very much in the Tourism industry that in talks between the South and North tourists groups that the North reps did not want the Wild Atlantic Way to include the beautiful North Derry and Antrim coastline. They wanted it isolated to be the Northern Way wth signs predominantly in blue red and white. The goodwill is not there as long as Westmister is givings subsidies
I presume the Northern Way will follow the traditional marching route . Will it feature real croppies ?
It will. There will be a small diversion everyday at noon to Burntollet where tourists can entertain themselves renacting the civil rights march. The local Taigs have volunteered to be targets for anyone who wants to attack them
I'd say the tories will call another Assembly election here on the 8th June as well.
I think a Westminster election is the last thing that will help SF. I know personally I voted for them in the Assembly election because of Arlene/DUP arrogance and the chance to show them that they can't disregard the Nationalist/Republican community.
However Sinn Fein don't go to Westminster so what is the point in voting for them if they're not going to represent me?! They are not going to perform as well as this time around and Unionists will be forming pacts all over the shop. Unless they change their strategy they could be in difficulty here!
An STV and a FPTP election on one day will lead to too many spoiled votes.
Quote from: LeoMc on April 18, 2017, 02:50:48 PM
An STV and a FPTP election on one day will lead to too many spoiled votes.
Well that is one way of weeding out those not suited to voting.
Accoring to Charlie Flanagan the Irish Gov is concerned about the election for NI. WherEs the Tories could not care less.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 18, 2017, 03:03:24 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 18, 2017, 02:50:48 PM
An STV and a FPTP election on one day will lead to too many spoiled votes.
Well that is one way of weeding out those not suited to voting.
A very valid point.
Hopefully that hateful rat Tom Elliot will get retired in FWT.
Quote from: screenexile on April 18, 2017, 02:40:12 PM
I think a Westminster election is the last thing that will help SF. I know personally I voted for them in the Assembly election because of Arlene/DUP arrogance and the chance to show them that they can't disregard the Nationalist/Republican community.
However Sinn Fein don't go to Westminster so what is the point in voting for them if they're not going to represent me?! They are not going to perform as well as this time around and Unionists will be forming pacts all over the shop. Unless they change their strategy they could be in difficulty here!
I think so too and back to the same old shite.
Quote from: LeoMc on April 18, 2017, 02:50:48 PM
An STV and a FPTP election on one day will lead to too many spoiled votes.
If the great unwashed can manage working out a Lucky 15 then a ballot paper should be childs play
Quote from: Avondhu star on April 18, 2017, 06:26:22 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 18, 2017, 02:50:48 PM
An STV and a FPTP election on one day will lead to too many spoiled votes.
If the great unwashed can manage working out a Lucky 15 then a ballot paper should be childs play
I would like to see both run off together, as well as filtering out the less literate it would make any unionist pacts less likely as they would be competing for Assembly seats in the same constituencies.
It matters not whether we have elections to Stormont or Westminster. I listen to the shite spouted about having a voice in London what nonsense as the Tory's won't listen any way. Robin Swann will do a pact as Unionism continues to self destruct.
Quote from: AQMP on April 19, 2017, 10:41:31 AM
I've picked up a few rumours (only rumours mind) that SF are mooting an Anti-Brexit pact with the SDLP and Alliance. Can't really see that working.
Especially since it'll be purely designed to boost SF as was the plan for the pact they offered to the SDLP 2 years ago, which amounted to the SDLP holding their own 3 seats and SF going after the rest. Something like that would see SF giving Alliance a free run in places where the SF vote is quite small anyway, and hoping the SDLP would further marginalise themselves to allow SF dominate nationalism even further. The complicating thing this time is that the SDLP seats are more vulnerable going by the Assembly results than they were on 2015's.
Quote from: AQMP on April 19, 2017, 10:41:31 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 19, 2017, 10:22:30 AM
It matters not whether we have elections to Stormont or Westminster. I listen to the shite spouted about having a voice in London what nonsense as the Tory's won't listen any way. Robin Swann will do a pact as Unionism continues to self destruct.
I thought the UUP had a pact with the SDLP?? The UUP and DUP will merge within 5 years. I'd very much doubt we'll have two elections on the same day here. You couldn't have the UUP and DUP backing each other on one ballot paper and opposing each other on the other.
I've picked up a few rumours (only rumours mind) that SF are mooting an Anti-Brexit pact with the SDLP and Alliance. Can't really see that working.
Mark Durkan was making noises on the Nolan show similar to those rumours. A one off anti-brexit consensus would send a relatively strong message out to the rest of the UK, even though the north barely registers on the Westminster Richter scale.
A once off pact makes total sense due to the undemocratic Westminster voting system.
An anti Brexit electoral approach is a sensible approach since this is the very reason for the election and the issue that will dominate the campaign more than any other. I'n not sure Westminister elections have an awful lot of significance in relation to the north in terms of policy implementation though other than to give a snapshot of electoral support at a given moment.
The UUP's flip flopping from DUP to SDLP and likely back to the DUP again is a poor reflection on the party and a sign that they don'/t really know what the direction they want the party to go. They are in danger of getting swallowed up completely by the DUP after this election.
If I was SF I would go all out to win FST and maximise the SF vote, possibly ousting Ritchie in SD. As I said it matters not who from here sits in Westminister.
What do SF MP's do once they are elected?
Quote from: AQMP on April 19, 2017, 12:29:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 19, 2017, 12:26:32 PM
What do SF MP's do once they are elected?
Same as the rest of them - feck all!
One of your better punchlines.
However Gildernew is capable of winning in FST no matter what the SDLP do (and they will stand)
How exactly, what are the figures?
Quote from: yellowcard on April 19, 2017, 11:34:53 AM
An anti Brexit electoral approach is a sensible approach since this is the very reason for the election and the issue that will dominate the campaign more than any other. I'n not sure Westminister elections have an awful lot of significance in relation to the north in terms of policy implementation though other than to give a snapshot of electoral support at a given moment.
I think an anti Brexit pact would be wise, if a majority of pro Brexit MPs are returned then this will be used by some as justification for all sorts of crap. Getting SF in FST, SDLP in South Belfast and Alliance in E. Belfast should be a priority. If some independent ani Brexit unionists joined in, so much the better. If Gildernew did not sit in parliament, she should be given an explicit anti Brexit role meeting people and campaigning. She was effective in Agriculture in NI and this is where the problem lies.
I'm a bit disappointed that no broad anti Brexit campaign has emerged, with nothing more than everyone sounding off from their own perspective.
Quote from: Dire Ear on April 19, 2017, 01:25:42 PM
However Gildernew is capable of winning in FST no matter what the SDLP do (and they will stand)
How exactly, what are the figures?
She would have a 50/50 chance (maybe slightly better) with an SDLP candidate running. It would probably be a guaranteed SF seat if the SDLP did not run a candidate.
Last election vote count:
Elliott 23,608
Gildernew 23,078
SDLP 2,732
Green 788
Alliance 658
That was before Brexit and I'd expect the unionist candidate to suffer slightly because of that this time.
FST Results 2017 election:
SDLP 5,134
Sinn Féin 22,008
Traditional Unionist Voice 780
Ulster Unionist Party 6,060
Democratic Unionist Party 15,581
Conservatives 70
Labour Alternative 643
Alliance Party 1,437
Green Party 550
Unionist pact of TUV, UUP & DUP produces 22,421 compared to 22,008 for SF on a turnout of 72.6%. However, some SDLP votes will go to SF candidate regardless of a SDLP candidate running.
West Tyrone election results 2017 on 69.9% turnout
WT
DUP 9064
Ulster Unionist Party 3654
SDLP 6283
Sinn Féin 21321
TUV 851
Alliance Party 1252
CISTA 373
Conservatives 27
Green Party 412
IND 864
IND 98
IND 85
IND 41
UUP, TUV and DUP will only muster 13569, so SF retain.
Foyle election results 2017 on 65% turnout
SDLP 14,188
SF 16,350
PBP 4,760
DUP 5,975
UUP 1,660
AP 1,124
CISTA 196
Con 77
GP 242
IND 44
SDLP looks to be in trouble for Mark Durkan but the questions remain about how PBP voters will decide and whether SDLP can be rescued by votes from unionists and AP. Turnout wasn't as high as other places in a high turnout election.
Possible SF gain and a target area for them.
East Londonderry election results 2017
DUP 14,040
UUP 2,814
TUV 1,038
IND 4,918
SF 10,804
SDLP 3,319
IND 1,204
PBP 492
PUP 879
GP 305
AP 1,841
Con 219
A unionist pact of DUP, TUV, UUP & IND U produces 22,810.
Looks like Campbell has no worries even without any help from the unionist family.
The chat of pacts is as depressing as it was two years ago. Tom Elliott is a gobshite of the highest order and a few on here have personal reasons to despise him but it matters not a jot whether it's him or Gildernew elected. If themmuns get to have their wee moment again, best just to laugh - Elliott is a joke.
SDLP have been vulnerable in Foyle and South Down for a long time now but their supporters there are loyal, so it wouldn't surprise me all that much if they managed to hang on yet again. Can't see them winning South Belfast again though. Alasdair has turned too many off him in the last couple of years.
Mid Ulster election results 2017 on 72.4% turnout.
SDLP 6,419
SF 26,207
DUP 9,568
TUV 1,244
UUP 4,516
WP 217
AP 1,017
GP 243
IND 247
No worries for SF here.
Quote from: gallsman on April 19, 2017, 03:16:18 PM
The chat of pacts is as depressing as it was two years ago. Tom Elliott is a gobshite of the highest order and a few on here have personal reasons to despise him but it matters not a jot whether it's him or Gildernew elected. If themmuns get to have their wee moment again, best just to laugh - Elliott is a joke.
I think it does matter, if Elliot is going around stating that people in Fermanagh welcome Brexit then that is doing damage.
Also, I saw Gerry Carroll going on about how Britain is a "failed state" and that PBP would stand behind Corbyn in socialist solidarity.
Given what's going on in Syria and Yemen, the rhetoric of "failed state" is a bit embarrassing.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2017, 03:22:52 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 19, 2017, 03:16:18 PM
The chat of pacts is as depressing as it was two years ago. Tom Elliott is a gobshite of the highest order and a few on here have personal reasons to despise him but it matters not a jot whether it's him or Gildernew elected. If themmuns get to have their wee moment again, best just to laugh - Elliott is a joke.
I think it does matter, if Elliot is going around stating that people in Fermanagh welcome Brexit then that is doing damage.
Brexit is happening regardless - what he says or does (or doesn't do) will have negligible real impact for the constituents. In my opinion of course
Newry & Armagh election results 2017 on 69.4% turnout.
SDLP 8,983
SF 26,532
DUP 9,760
UUP 7,256
AP 1,418
CISTA 704
GP 265
No worries for SF here.
Quote from: gallsman on April 19, 2017, 03:28:58 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2017, 03:22:52 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 19, 2017, 03:16:18 PM
The chat of pacts is as depressing as it was two years ago. Tom Elliott is a gobshite of the highest order and a few on here have personal reasons to despise him but it matters not a jot whether it's him or Gildernew elected. If themmuns get to have their wee moment again, best just to laugh - Elliott is a joke.
I think it does matter, if Elliot is going around stating that people in Fermanagh welcome Brexit then that is doing damage.
Brexit is happening regardless - what he says or does (or doesn't do) will have negligible real impact for the constituents. In my opinion of course
Brexit is happening, but the devil is in the detail. The EU and even the British have made noises about the border here, the last thing we want is Elliot standing up in Westminster opposing practical arrangements out of bigotry.
Upper Bann election results 2017 on 62.5% turnout.
DUP 16,885
UUP 10,599
TUV 1,035
SDLP 5,127
SF 14,328
WP 218
AP 2,720
Con 81
GP 555
No worries for DUP here.
South Antrim election results 2017
DUP 14,278
TUV 1,353
UUP 6,287
SDLP 4,024
SF 6,891
AP 5,278
CON 194
GP 501
IND 503
PBP 530
No worries for DUP.
North Antrim election results 2017
DUP 19,540
TUV 7,719
UUP 6,022
SDLP 3,519
SF 7,600
AP 2,616
IND 435
IND 113
GP 530
DUP romp home again.
East Antrim election results 2017
DUP 13,164
UUP 8,498
TUV 1,534
UKIP 1,579
AP 5,996
SDLP 1,524
SF 3,701
CON 152
GP 777
IND 106
LAB 393
DUP again
North Belfast election results 2017
DUP 13,309
UUP 2,418
PUP 2,053 17,780
AP 3,487
SF 12,204 17,635
SDLP 5,431
PBP 1,559
GP 711
WP 248
IND 66
A unionist pact of UUP, DUP and PUP would produce 17,780 while SDLP and SF could muster 17,635 votes. Where the AP and PBP votes will go is the question.
This could manage to unseat Dodds which would be a major coup for any nationalist or Brexit alliance.
West Belfast election results 2017
SF 24,931
PBP 5,999
DUP 4,063
SDLP 3,452
AP 747
UUP 486
WP 415
GP 251
Can SF crush PBP and SDLP?
South Belfast election results 2017
SDLP 8,353 15,963
SF 7,610
AP 7,648
DUP 8,975
TUV 703
UUP 3,863 13,541
GP 4,247
PBP 760
WP 163
CON 200
LAB 531
There are at least 13,541 votes in a unionist pact with some more possible from Alliance but a SDLP SF pact could bring in 15,963 votes. Again Alliance votes are unpredictable as are the GP votes. Care needs to be taken not to turn this area over to a unionist pro Brexit MP but McDonnell is a vote loser as the sitting MP and his own local party despises him.
East Belfast election results 2017
AP 12,669
DUP 15,167
TUV 917
UUP 5,275
PUP 2,658
GP 1,447
SF 1,173
IND 84
LAB 442
SDLP 250
CON 275
DUP can win this alone but definitely with the UUP, TUV, PUP giving 24,017.
Can Alliance mount a challenge without Long as the candidate?
North Down election results 2017
DUP 14,152
UUP 8,115
AP 7,014
SDLP 679
SF 591
IND 1,246
IND 92
IND 31
CON 641
Election result 2010
S Hermon 17,689
DUP 8,487
Alliance 3,086
Green 1,958
Con 1,593
UKIP 1,482
TUV 686
SDLP 355
CISTAP 338
SF 273
Sylvia Hermon commands a strong personal vote which takes from AP, DUP and UUP. Capable of holding again.
Are MLAs more important than the MPs in the big scheme of things ?
Quote from: AQMP on April 19, 2017, 04:58:24 PM
SDLP/SF pact anyone?? Although it won't be called that. Can't see Alliance getting involved in this. Can you imagine East Belfast? DUP will have a field day "Naomi Long supported by Gerry Adams" will be some slogan!
In ordinary times I wouldn't be in favour of an SDLP/SF pact, but these are extraordinary times and we/they (the Remain parties) should really do what we/they can to strengthen the NI position in Brexit talks by showing a referendum result, an assembly election result and a Westminster election result that favours the anti-Brexit parties. For 3 different democratic results to be ignored would be completely anti-democratic.
Strangford election results 2017
DUP 15,492
UUP 7,776
AP 5,813
SDLP 3,045
SF 1,110
TUV 1,330
GP 918
IND 1,627
IND 1,479
CON 195
Not much competition for the dislikable Jim Shannon.
Lagan Valley election results 2017
DUP 18,614
UUP 11,338
TUV 1,389
AP 6,105
SDLP 3,795
SF 1,801
GP 912
IND 856
IND 76
CON 183
Hard to see any problem for wee Jeff but UUP-DUP relations were polarised in the election by allowing SDLP in instead of third DUP. There could be a way to unseat Jeff but unlikely to coalesce.
South Down election results 2017
SF 19,083
SDLP 12,433
DUP 7,786
AP 4,535
UUP 4,172
TUV 630
GP 483
IND 192
CON 85
Real problems for the difficult to like M Ritchie. SF made a leap forward by removing the equally difficult to like C Ruane and having a local candidate in Sinead Ennis with strong community connections. If SF can hold these votes then with the Alliance eating into SDLP votes then it is curtains for Ritchie.
So much for being the first SDLP person to shout 'no pacts' when only some arrangement can save her seat held by SDLP since 1987 when Eddie O'Grady snatched it from the despicable Enoch Powell.
Quote from: Rois on April 19, 2017, 05:13:50 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 19, 2017, 04:58:24 PM
SDLP/SF pact anyone?? Although it won't be called that. Can't see Alliance getting involved in this. Can you imagine East Belfast? DUP will have a field day "Naomi Long supported by Gerry Adams" will be some slogan!
In ordinary times I wouldn't be in favour of an SDLP/SF pact, but these are extraordinary times and we/they (the Remain parties) should really do what we/they can to strengthen the NI position in Brexit talks by showing a referendum result, an assembly election result and a Westminster election result that favours the anti-Brexit parties. For 3 different democratic results to be ignored would be completely anti-democratic.
+1
So, according to the last Assembly poll, SDLP could be left with no MPs. The fortresses of Foyle and South Down have been breached. Only the unionists and PBP could save the day for M Durkan in Foyle. Only an anti SF vote can save M Ritchie.
An anti-Brexit alliance could be achieved but the APNI will struggle to be on the same side as Adams and remain a home for refugees from the collapsing and becoming less relevant UUP.
FST and South Belfast remain the battlegrounds.
Will the fact that May will gain a huge majority making the DUP irrelevant to her affect how the DUP look on forming pacts as they will become a tiny grouping in the UK parliament with no power?
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 19, 2017, 05:42:50 PM
An anti-Brexit alliance could be achieved but the APNI will struggle to be on the same side as Adams and remain a home for refugees from the collapsing and becoming less relevant UUP.
Where exactly would Alliance benefit from an anti-Brexit pact? Do they really have a hope anywhere except East Belfast? Surely SF and SDLP would just sit that out anyway without it being called a pact.
May has shown what the Tories think of anyone outside their own littlle clique. The Natioalists and Unionists can clash all they ike just don't bother London
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 19, 2017, 05:42:50 PM
So, according to the last Assembly poll, SDLP could be left with no MPs. The fortresses of Foyle and South Down have been breached. Only the unionists and PBP could save the day for M Durkan in Foyle. Only an anti SF vote can save M Ritchie.
An anti-Brexit alliance could be achieved but the APNI will struggle to be on the same side as Adams and remain a home for refugees from the collapsing and becoming less relevant UUP.
FST and South Belfast remain the battlegrounds.
Will the fact that May will gain a huge majority making the DUP irrelevant to her affect how the DUP look on forming pacts as they will become a tiny grouping in the UK parliament with no power?
Why does it matter whether or not a party has MPs?
Quote from: seafoid on April 19, 2017, 07:17:21 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 19, 2017, 05:42:50 PM
So, according to the last Assembly poll, SDLP could be left with no MPs. The fortresses of Foyle and South Down have been breached. Only the unionists and PBP could save the day for M Durkan in Foyle. Only an anti SF vote can save M Ritchie.
An anti-Brexit alliance could be achieved but the APNI will struggle to be on the same side as Adams and remain a home for refugees from the collapsing and becoming less relevant UUP.
FST and South Belfast remain the battlegrounds.
Will the fact that May will gain a huge majority making the DUP irrelevant to her affect how the DUP look on forming pacts as they will become a tiny grouping in the UK parliament with no power?
Why does it matter whether or not a party has MPs?
Essentially it is a method used to determine the success or otherwise of a party. It can also fulfil a narrative used by others to put it in the minds of the voters that a party is in decline and they would be best to go for a winning ticket that they might hold. Once voters shift parties and sometimes 'lend' their vote to another it can be very difficult to pull them back.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 19, 2017, 07:27:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 19, 2017, 07:17:21 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 19, 2017, 05:42:50 PM
So, according to the last Assembly poll, SDLP could be left with no MPs. The fortresses of Foyle and South Down have been breached. Only the unionists and PBP could save the day for M Durkan in Foyle. Only an anti SF vote can save M Ritchie.
An anti-Brexit alliance could be achieved but the APNI will struggle to be on the same side as Adams and remain a home for refugees from the collapsing and becoming less relevant UUP.
FST and South Belfast remain the battlegrounds.
Will the fact that May will gain a huge majority making the DUP irrelevant to her affect how the DUP look on forming pacts as they will become a tiny grouping in the UK parliament with no power?
Why does it matter whether or not a party has MPs?
Essentially it is a method used to determine the success or otherwise of a party. It can also fulfil a narrative used by others to put it in the minds of the voters that a party is in decline and they would be best to go for a winning ticket that they might hold. Once voters shift parties and sometimes 'lend' their vote to another it can be very difficult to pull them back.
Do Assembly elections not show that anyway?
Quote from: seafoid on April 19, 2017, 08:28:55 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 19, 2017, 07:27:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 19, 2017, 07:17:21 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 19, 2017, 05:42:50 PM
So, according to the last Assembly poll, SDLP could be left with no MPs. The fortresses of Foyle and South Down have been breached. Only the unionists and PBP could save the day for M Durkan in Foyle. Only an anti SF vote can save M Ritchie.
An anti-Brexit alliance could be achieved but the APNI will struggle to be on the same side as Adams and remain a home for refugees from the collapsing and becoming less relevant UUP.
FST and South Belfast remain the battlegrounds.
Will the fact that May will gain a huge majority making the DUP irrelevant to her affect how the DUP look on forming pacts as they will become a tiny grouping in the UK parliament with no power?
Why does it matter whether or not a party has MPs?
Essentially it is a method used to determine the success or otherwise of a party. It can also fulfil a narrative used by others to put it in the minds of the voters that a party is in decline and they would be best to go for a winning ticket that they might hold. Once voters shift parties and sometimes 'lend' their vote to another it can be very difficult to pull them back.
Do Assembly elections not show that anyway?
Yes but a fall or increase in number of MPs is another measure used in the same way.
Also sf don't go to westminster which you would imagine impacts their voting.
Perfidious Albion
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/general-election/sinn-fein-tells-brokenshire-british-government-has-done-nothing-to-achieve-stormont-deal-and-wants-powersharing-to-fail-35638270.html
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 19, 2017, 10:19:28 PM
Also sf don't go to westminster which you would imagine impacts their voting.
It might not help but like the Assembly elections the SF voters have the chance to bloody the DUP's nose and loosen their pull with May if its another slim majority and the Shinners can take a few seats from them even if no one sits in Westminster.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 19, 2017, 10:19:28 PM
Also sf don't go to westminster which you would imagine impacts their voting.
It will have a positive impact i'd say. As shown with Brexit, there's no point in sending politicians to London.
Brokenshire is going to do something about the council funding. Poor NI. Nobody cares either in Stormont or London.
Or Dublin.
Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2017, 09:14:35 AM
Brokenshire is going to do something about the council funding. Poor NI. Nobody cares either in Stormont or London.
He will strike the regional rate to allow rates bills to be paid as councils have started to be paid out of the block grant and amend legislation to extend the time from three weeks for nominations of FM and DFM given election date.
Quote from: vallankumous on April 21, 2017, 08:49:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 19, 2017, 10:19:28 PM
Also sf don't go to westminster which you would imagine impacts their voting.
It will have a positive impact i'd say. As shown with Brexit, there's no point in sending politicians to London.
Could someone point out the arguments for SF not sitting in Westminster against the reasoning why it makes sense for the SNP to do so?
I'm just wondering if there's not a time when it would be beneficial for SF to make their voices heard in Westminster so as to embarrass the ruling parties a bit more in their own back yard.
Quote from: theskull1 on April 21, 2017, 10:49:30 AM
I'm just wondering if there's not a time when it would be beneficial for SF to make their voices heard in Westminster so as to embarrass the ruling parties a bit more in their own back yard.
I'd actually love to hear Mary-Lou over in Westminster.
There are over 500 English MPs in Westminister so it doesn't matter a damn who from the North (or Scotland/Wales) take or dont taketheir seats.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 21, 2017, 11:08:20 AM
There are over 500 English MPs in Westminister so it doesn't matter a damn who from the North (or Scotland/Wales) take or dont taketheir seats.
if there is a hung parliament it does.
The SF position doesn't make sense now. The net result of their foostering is that NI is in limbo.
Because the Westminster Parliament requires an oath to a head of state who cannot be of a particular religion ( Catholic). Sectarian law (Act of Settlement) which underpins the "constitution" of the United Kingdom. No party has ever brought a realistic proposal to amend this. Abstention should be highlighting this abomination.
Forgot about that ...cheers. No doubt the media would make much of any SF MP taking it (even though most would know they'd keep their fingers crossed throughout :))
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/letters/unionism-has-made-no-effort-to-bring-catholics-into-the-fold-or-convince-them-to-back-the-uk-35639350.html
Attention all slow learners.Read this and learn who abandoned Northern Nationalists,who has never sought to end this abandonment and further explain why you place your trust in such people going forward?
I see HRH Prince Charles is to be (no doubt) feted and fawned over in Kilkenny this week as well.
Quote from: Dick Craig on April 21, 2017, 11:16:16 AM
Because the Westminster Parliament requires an oath to a head of state who cannot be of a particular religion ( Catholic). Sectarian law (Act of Settlement) which underpins the "constitution" of the United Kingdom. No party has ever brought a realistic proposal to amend this. Abstention should be highlighting this abomination.
There are 72 catholic MPs.
Quote from: T Fearon on April 21, 2017, 12:06:36 PM
I see HRH Prince Charles is to be (no doubt) feted and fawned over in Kilkenny this week as well.
Only fawning I see us you sticking 3 capital letters and a feudal "title" before his name :P
Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2017, 11:13:28 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 21, 2017, 11:08:20 AM
There are over 500 English MPs in Westminister so it doesn't matter a damn who from the North (or Scotland/Wales) take or dont taketheir seats.
if there is a hung parliament it does.
The SF position doesn't make sense now. The net result of their foostering is that NI is in limbo.
It makes no difference to the position of sending Irish men and women to London to rule Ireland. In a practical sense it still makes no difference either.
As for NI being in Limbo? This is the result of it's place within the union and nothing else.
Quote from: T Fearon on April 21, 2017, 11:58:56 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/letters/unionism-has-made-no-effort-to-bring-catholics-into-the-fold-or-convince-them-to-back-the-uk-35639350.html
Attention all slow learners.Read this and learn who abandoned Northern Nationalists,who has never sought to end this abandonment and further explain why you place your trust in such people going forward?
Were you using a pseudonym? You should have capitalised the names.
Quote from: AQMP on April 21, 2017, 02:59:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2017, 11:13:28 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 21, 2017, 11:08:20 AM
There are over 500 English MPs in Westminister so it doesn't matter a damn who from the North (or Scotland/Wales) take or dont taketheir seats.
if there is a hung parliament it does.
The SF position doesn't make sense now. The net result of their foostering is that NI is in limbo.
There are 56 (or technically 54) SNP MPs. What influence have they had?? I can't see four or five SF MPs attending Westminster making a button of difference and it would be a vote loser too.
Say this election results in the Tories plus DUP being 2 seats ahead of everyone else. An everyone else government could bring in a language act under Direct Rule. But the Tories would be in charge .
UUP have stated they won't stand in Foyle, North Belfast and West Belfast.
This signals to DUP that they won't do anything to affect their de facto leader, Dodds, and will want a similar arrangement in other seats especially to protect Kinahan in South Antrim and Elliot in FST.
Interesting that they are pointing out they could run Nesbitt in South Belfast and Kennedy in Upper Bann.
There is a need for an agreed anti-Brexit candidate in North Belfast to defeat Dodds which would be a significant blow to the DUP. No established SF or SDLP candidate would be enough to draw in the Alliance vote needed to win from Dodds.
North Belfast election results 2017
61.8%
DUP 13,309
UUP 2,418
PUP 2,053 17,780
AP 3,487
SF 12,204
SDLP 5,431
PBP 1,559
GP 711
WP 248 20,153
IND 66
North Belfast General Election results
2015
59.20%
DUP 19,096
SF 13,770
SDLP 3,338
APNI 2,941
WP 919
IND 529
2010
56.50%
DUP 14,812
SF 12,588
SDLP 4,544
UCU-NF 2,837
APNI 1,809
IND 403
2005
57.80%
DUP 13,935
SF 8,747
SDLP 4,950
UUP 2,154
APNI 438
WP 165
IND 151
2001
67.20%
DUP 16,718
SF 10,331
SDLP 8,592
UUP 4,904
WP 253
IND 134
Now we know. Lucky that RHI became an issue to pull down the Assembly when it was never an issue for the previous year.
It looks like the pulling down of the Assembly was in part due to the inability of the ministers to agree and implement a balanced budget for 2017-18. It appears that it is better to let the British and/or the civil servants to make the unpalatable cuts to key areas hence prevarication about ILA, etc until the budget is set and implemented by civil servants and confirmed by UK government.
Without an Executive the UK parliament will set the budget and the civil servants have been given permission to go ahead with their planned budget for 2017-18.
Education cut by 2.5%
Infrastructure cut by 1.6%
Justice down by 2%
Agriculture down by 3.7%
Economy down by 3%
Communities up by 9% to pay for welfare payment mitigation decided by Assembly
Health up by 3% (5% inflation in this sector means a cut)
Finance up by 2.9%
The number of jobs to be cut in Education will be highly significant as they are on top of major increases in employers' national insurance and pension contributions. When inflation is added to 2.5% cash cut then it rises to close to 7%.
How will agriculture deal with such a major cut with Brexit around the corner?
At least A5, A6 and Belfast Transport Hub will continue.
Watch how Brokenshire gets the blame and then it is passed on the civil servants. There was a fixed amount of funding and the cake has just been sliced and handed out by them.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 23, 2017, 11:24:33 AM
UUP have stated they won't stand in Foyle, North Belfast and West Belfast.
This signals to DUP that they won't do anything to affect their de facto leader, Dodds, and will want a similar arrangement in other seats especially to protect Kinahan in South Antrim and Elliot in FST.
Interesting that they are pointing out they could run Nesbitt in South Belfast and Kennedy in Upper Bann.
There is a need for an agreed anti-Brexit candidate in North Belfast to defeat Dodds which would be a significant blow to the DUP. No established SF or SDLP candidate would be enough to draw in the Alliance vote needed to win from Dodds.
North Belfast election results 2017
61.8%
DUP 13,309
UUP 2,418
PUP 2,053 17,780
AP 3,487
SF 12,204
SDLP 5,431
PBP 1,559
GP 711
WP 248 20,153
IND 66
North Belfast General Election results
2015
59.20%
DUP 19,096
SF 13,770
SDLP 3,338
APNI 2,941
WP 919
IND 529
2010
56.50%
DUP 14,812
SF 12,588
SDLP 4,544
UCU-NF 2,837
APNI 1,809
IND 403
2005
57.80%
DUP 13,935
SF 8,747
SDLP 4,950
UUP 2,154
APNI 438
WP 165
IND 151
2001
67.20%
DUP 16,718
SF 10,331
SDLP 8,592
UUP 4,904
WP 253
IND 134
Apparently SF might not be running in one of these constituencies either.. Also heard that majority of UUP's candidates are liberal unionists. Strong possibility that they might return an equal number to DUP. Apparently SF are not that interested in the Westminster/Brexit tester and that Brokenshire's refusal to call a second Stormont election is going to be challenged.
South Belfast election results 2017
SDLP 8,353 15,963
SF 7,610
AP 7,648
DUP 8,975
TUV 703
UUP 3,863 13,541
GP 4,247
PBP 760
WP 163
CON 200
LAB 531
There are at least 13,541 votes in a unionist pact (DUP, UUP & TUV) with some more possible from Alliance but a SDLP SF pact could bring in 15,963 votes. Again Alliance votes are unpredictable as are the GP votes. McDonnell is a vote loser as the sitting MP and his own local party probably won't canvas for him.
2015 GE Results 60% turnout
SDLP Alasdair McDonnell 9,560
DUP Jonathan Bell 8,654
Alliance Paula Bradshaw 6,711
Sinn Féin Máirtín Ó Muilleoir 5,402
UUP Rodney McCune 3,549
Green (NI) Clare Bailey 2,238
UKIP Bob Stoker 1,900
NI Conservatives Ben Manton 582
Workers' Party Lily Ker 361
2010 GE Results 57% turnout
SDLP Alasdair McDonnell 14,026
DUP Jimmy Spratt 8,100
UCU-NF Paula Bradshaw 5,910
Alliance Anna Lo 5,114
Green (NI) Adam McGibbon 1,036
Quote from: AQMP on April 25, 2017, 02:12:09 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 25, 2017, 02:01:47 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 19, 2017, 04:47:10 PM
South Belfast election results 2017
SDLP 8,353 15,963
SF 7,610
AP 7,648
DUP 8,975
TUV 703
UUP 3,863 13,541
GP 4,247
PBP 760
WP 163
CON 200
LAB 531
There are at least 13,541 votes in a unionist pact with some more possible from Alliance but a SDLP SF pact could bring in 15,963 votes. Again Alliance votes are unpredictable as are the GP votes. Care needs to be taken not to turn this area over to a unionist pro Brexit MP but McDonnell is a vote loser as the sitting MP and his own local party despises him.
I suppose it's hard to ditch an incumbent who doesn't want to step down but I think McDonnell is toast here, mainly because he's useless. It'll be interesting to see who the DUP run but with the SF and Greens on the up in this constituency they probably think that Bailey and O Muilleoir (if he runs) will continue to eat into Big Al's vote and that the DUP can sneak through the gap. They'll throw the kitchen sink at this one.
The seat has been promised to Pengelly after her bitter disappointment in the Assembly election.
Quote from: AQMP on April 25, 2017, 09:50:23 AM
Looks like the UUP have been sold a pup by the DUP on a pact. The DUP fancy their chances in South Belfast with or without the UUP and are also confident they can beat Kinahan in South Antrim. Lesson for the SDLP?? SF are going to hold their 4 seats with a possibility of winning back F&ST. What is the benefit to SF of a pact??
If SF cared about advocating their position they'd take their seats and challenge May directly. I'm predicting that the DUP will lose 3 seats in a protest by the people of Northern Ireland. Only Donaldson, Paisley, Wilson, Campbell and Jim Shannon will hold their seats. Alliance and UUP will gain these. SDLP/Sinn Fein pact will gain none. Arlene Foster will accept blame and resign.
Northern Ireland really needs a stable UK to function because it is so dysfunctional itself.
The northern parties will be wanting deep pockets.
Quote from: AQMP on April 26, 2017, 12:09:41 PM
Quote from: Ronnie on April 26, 2017, 12:14:39 AM
Quote from: AQMP on April 25, 2017, 09:50:23 AM
Looks like the UUP have been sold a pup by the DUP on a pact. The DUP fancy their chances in South Belfast with or without the UUP and are also confident they can beat Kinahan in South Antrim. Lesson for the SDLP?? SF are going to hold their 4 seats with a possibility of winning back F&ST. What is the benefit to SF of a pact??
If SF cared about advocating their position they'd take their seats and challenge May directly. I'm predicting that the DUP will lose 3 seats in a protest by the people of Northern Ireland. Only Donaldson, Paisley, Wilson, Campbell and Jim Shannon will hold their seats. Alliance and UUP will gain these. SDLP/Sinn Fein pact will gain none. Arlene Foster will accept blame and resign.
You're predicting that Alliance will win North Belfast?!?! :o
East maybe!
Quote from: AQMP on April 26, 2017, 12:09:41 PM
Quote from: Ronnie on April 26, 2017, 12:14:39 AM
Quote from: AQMP on April 25, 2017, 09:50:23 AM
Looks like the UUP have been sold a pup by the DUP on a pact. The DUP fancy their chances in South Belfast with or without the UUP and are also confident they can beat Kinahan in South Antrim. Lesson for the SDLP?? SF are going to hold their 4 seats with a possibility of winning back F&ST. What is the benefit to SF of a pact??
If SF cared about advocating their position they'd take their seats and challenge May directly. I'm predicting that the DUP will lose 3 seats in a protest by the people of Northern Ireland. Only Donaldson, Paisley, Wilson, Campbell and Jim Shannon will hold their seats. Alliance and UUP will gain these. SDLP/Sinn Fein pact will gain none. Arlene Foster will accept blame and resign.
You're predicting that Alliance will win North Belfast?!?! :o
I'm predicting that Alliance will win at least one seat in Belfast and that Mike Nesbitt will also be elected. Any clearer?
Quote from: AQMP on April 26, 2017, 12:57:09 PM
Pro Remain pact between SDLP and SF looks dead in the water.
Ah ffs. I'm voting in North Belfast, would have loved to see old Nigel get the boot.
Quote from: AQMP on April 26, 2017, 12:56:17 PM
Quote from: Ronnie on April 26, 2017, 12:48:24 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 26, 2017, 12:09:41 PM
Quote from: Ronnie on April 26, 2017, 12:14:39 AM
Quote from: AQMP on April 25, 2017, 09:50:23 AM
Looks like the UUP have been sold a pup by the DUP on a pact. The DUP fancy their chances in South Belfast with or without the UUP and are also confident they can beat Kinahan in South Antrim. Lesson for the SDLP?? SF are going to hold their 4 seats with a possibility of winning back F&ST. What is the benefit to SF of a pact??
Whoever the UUP/Alliance pact choose. Ford/Nesbitt
If SF cared about advocating their position they'd take their seats and challenge May directly. I'm predicting that the DUP will lose 3 seats in a protest by the people of Northern Ireland. Only Donaldson, Paisley, Wilson, Campbell and Jim Shannon will hold their seats. Alliance and UUP will gain these. SDLP/Sinn Fein pact will gain none. Arlene Foster will accept blame and resign.
You're predicting that Alliance will win North Belfast?!?! :o
I'm predicting that Alliance will win at least one seat in Belfast and that Mike Nesbitt will also be elected. Any clearer?
You seem to predict that Dodds will not be elected, as he doesn't appear in your list of certain DUP MPs. You also say that the (now doomed) SF/SDLP pact wouldn't gain any seats, so I'm simply asking who beats Dodds in Nth Belfast?
Quote from: AQMP on April 26, 2017, 01:30:47 PM
Quote from: Ronnie on April 26, 2017, 01:07:26 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 26, 2017, 12:56:17 PM
Quote from: Ronnie on April 26, 2017, 12:48:24 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 26, 2017, 12:09:41 PM
Quote from: Ronnie on April 26, 2017, 12:14:39 AM
Quote from: AQMP on April 25, 2017, 09:50:23 AM
Looks like the UUP have been sold a pup by the DUP on a pact. The DUP fancy their chances in South Belfast with or without the UUP and are also confident they can beat Kinahan in South Antrim. Lesson for the SDLP?? SF are going to hold their 4 seats with a possibility of winning back F&ST. What is the benefit to SF of a pact??
Whoever the UUP/Alliance pact choose. Ford/Nesbitt
If SF cared about advocating their position they'd take their seats and challenge May directly. I'm predicting that the DUP will lose 3 seats in a protest by the people of Northern Ireland. Only Donaldson, Paisley, Wilson, Campbell and Jim Shannon will hold their seats. Alliance and UUP will gain these. SDLP/Sinn Fein pact will gain none. Arlene Foster will accept blame and resign.
You're predicting that Alliance will win North Belfast?!?! :o
I'm predicting that Alliance will win at least one seat in Belfast and that Mike Nesbitt will also be elected. Any clearer?
You seem to predict that Dodds will not be elected, as he doesn't appear in your list of certain DUP MPs. You also say that the (now doomed) SF/SDLP pact wouldn't gain any seats, so I'm simply asking who beats Dodds in Nth Belfast?
The UUP have already said they won't be standing in Nth Belfast and frankly David Ford wouldn't have a cat in hell's chance.
Would that be the same price Trump was 1yr before his election?
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/bbc-apology-and-content-takedown-over-comic-tiernans-inappropriate-arlene-foster-joke-35655492.html
Speaking about his "interest" in the DUP leader he said: "If she wasn't in politics I can see her working single handedly on a tiny little farm in south Fermanagh driving cattle up some country lane".
Then, apparently imitating Mrs Foster, he said: "Go on you pups, you fenian ba****ds ye, go up you fenian...
"Friesian Arlene, they are called Friesian Arlene.
"I'll call them what I want,"
SF have nothing to gain from a pact. They do like a few seats as it brings in cash. It is a better proposition for them to garner every possible vote. SF taking seats in Westminister would be as effective as the stoops, in other wards pissing against the breeze. The DUP had some sway because they would vote with May, but even that was very limited.
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 27, 2017, 09:45:05 AM
SF have nothing to gain from a pact. They do like a few seats as it brings in cash. It is a better proposition for them to garner every possible vote. SF taking seats in Westminister would be as effective as the stoops, in other wards pissing against the breeze. The DUP had some sway because they would vote with May, but even that was very limited.
If they define themselves as advancing themselves, then this is true. If they define themselves as doing what is good for Ireland then an anti Brexit pact has a lot going for it. But I think we always knew which was the priority for SF.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2017, 10:22:16 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 27, 2017, 09:45:05 AM
SF have nothing to gain from a pact. They do like a few seats as it brings in cash. It is a better proposition for them to garner every possible vote. SF taking seats in Westminister would be as effective as the stoops, in other wards pissing against the breeze. The DUP had some sway because they would vote with May, but even that was very limited.
If they define themselves as advancing themselves, then this is true. If they define themselves as doing what is good for Ireland then an anti Brexit pact has a lot going for it. But I think we always knew which was the priority for SF.
An anti brexit pact won't make any difference. All it would do his hand a lifeline to the Stoops and a leg up to the greens.
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 27, 2017, 01:37:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2017, 10:22:16 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 27, 2017, 09:45:05 AM
SF have nothing to gain from a pact. They do like a few seats as it brings in cash. It is a better proposition for them to garner every possible vote. SF taking seats in Westminister would be as effective as the stoops, in other wards pissing against the breeze. The DUP had some sway because they would vote with May, but even that was very limited.
If they define themselves as advancing themselves, then this is true. If they define themselves as doing what is good for Ireland then an anti Brexit pact has a lot going for it. But I think we always knew which was the priority for SF.
An anti brexit pact won't make any difference. All it would do his hand a lifeline to the Stoops and a leg up to the greens.
No lifeline when they were putting the option of an independent who would attend Westminster on the table as a proposal but the Shinners demanded that only party political representation would be acceptable to them.
Just further proof that SF would prefer DUP/UUP would win seats rather than SF to be working with or aiding the SDLP.
At the end of the day, it is as much the money that can be taken in by a party by winning a seat at Westminster as the influence they can exert. This money is essential to the SDLP but less so to SF.
Chris Hazzard MP for South Down, in the independent republic of Northern Ireland.
That better Keyser Soze?
Away from the electioneering, two major issues have come to the fore away from politicians:
1. The disaster in the health system where Daisy Hill is just a symptom
2. The swingeing cuts in education.
All hailed the Bengoa report which was the agreed way forward. It and all previous reports on health proposed that the number of acute hospitals should be reduced to just four which would have scrapped Daisy Hill A&E. We can't have it every way, we don't have the resources to have local A&E departments. Health is ring fenced and only gets 3% when it needs 5% to stand still without any increase in services. The likely closure of Daisy Hill has happened when the politicians are offside and not by coincidence, it is to their advantage that administrators do the work they should be doing if they were up to the job and running the country. BTW the problems in Daisy Hill are long running and the Health Minister had turned her face away from dealing with them before shutting down government.
The cuts in education are real and are probably closer to 7 or 8% in real terms and exist for one reason, i.e. the mitigation of welfare reform cuts has cost so much that the budget for them has been increased by 9% in cash terms. This had to be taken from somewhere and education, agriculture, economy, infrastructure and justice have all been reduced to pay for not implementing the welfare reform. Again this works in favour of SF-DUP coalition as it maintains their mitigation of welfare but the civil servants get the blame for taking the additional cost from the education and the other areas.
RHI and the respect agenda was a fig leaf for the failure of the DUP-SF to be able to produce a budget for 2017-18 by pulling down the assembly and handing over the problem to the UK government and civil servants. Why do you think that DUP handed over the finance ministry to SF having carefully guarded it for so long to keep it anyway from nationalist and republican rouges and renegades? It was a poisoned chalice that was too hot to handle (i know mixed metaphors) and the only way out was to pull down the assembly for something that had not been a problem only a matter of weeks before. How would it play in Dublin when a SF finance minister implemented severe cuts to public services when its TD had and continued to harangue FG for its cuts in the RoI?
At some stage people in N.Ireland need to wake up and see that the cuts are real, inevitable, not the fault of Brokenshire or the civil servants, the budget cannot meet all of our needs. If politicians prevent welfare cuts by taking so much from other budgets, we must expect cuts elsewhere even if they didn't have the courage to tell everyone this would happen.
But sure SF in the 26 Cos are in favour of free everything ::)
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 27, 2017, 11:45:22 PM
Away from the electioneering, two major issues have come to the fore away from politicians:
1. The disaster in the health system where Daisy Hill is just a symptom
2. The swingeing cuts in education.
All hailed the Bengoa report which was the agreed way forward. It and all previous reports on health proposed that the number of acute hospitals should be reduced to just four which would have scrapped Daisy Hill A&E. We can't have it every way, we don't have the resources to have local A&E departments. Health is ring fenced and only gets 3% when it needs 5% to stand still without any increase in services. The likely closure of Daisy Hill has happened when the politicians are offside and not by coincidence, it is to their advantage that administrators do the work they should be doing if they were up to the job and running the country. BTW the problems in Daisy Hill are long running and the Health Minister had turned her face away from dealing with them before shutting down government.
The cuts in education are real and are probably closer to 7 or 8% in real terms and exist for one reason, i.e. the mitigation of welfare reform cuts has cost so much that the budget for them has been increased by 9% in cash terms. This had to be taken from somewhere and education, agriculture, economy, infrastructure and justice have all been reduced to pay for not implementing the welfare reform. Again this works in favour of SF-DUP coalition as it maintains their mitigation of welfare but the civil servants get the blame for taking the additional cost from the education and the other areas.
RHI and the respect agenda was a fig leaf for the failure of the DUP-SF to be able to produce a budget for 2017-18 by pulling down the assembly and handing over the problem to the UK government and civil servants. Why do you think that DUP handed over the finance ministry to SF having carefully guarded it for so long to keep it anyway from nationalist and republican rouges and renegades? It was a poisoned chalice that was too hot to handle (i know mixed metaphors) and the only way out was to pull down the assembly for something that had not been a problem only a matter of weeks before. How would it play in Dublin when a SF finance minister implemented severe cuts to public services when its TD had and continued to harangue FG for its cuts in the RoI?
At some stage people in N.Ireland need to wake up and see that the cuts are real, inevitable, not the fault of Brokenshire or the civil servants, the budget cannot meet all of our needs. If politicians prevent welfare cuts by taking so much from other budgets, we must expect cuts elsewhere even if they didn't have the courage to tell everyone this would happen.
Some of this is fair enough in the context of the UK's shaky economic future. Cuts are inevitable but I haven't seen Máirtín Ó Muilleoir shirking his responsibility. Notwithstanding SF perceiving James Brokenshire as partial, as the UK's Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, he really should have been able to knock a few heads together within 8 weeks. It is a derogation of his duty to "pause" talks re: forming a govt for NI. I think Arlene Foster's 2 day gaelic reach-out may be too little too late.. Let's get the Brexiteers out.
Gerry kelly stepping aside for john finucane. Might make thinks a bit closer esp if sdlp picked someone other than mallon. Would be good to see dodds go
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 27, 2017, 11:45:22 PM
Away from the electioneering, two major issues have come to the fore away from politicians:
1. The disaster in the health system where Daisy Hill is just a symptom
2. The swingeing cuts in education.
All hailed the Bengoa report which was the agreed way forward. It and all previous reports on health proposed that the number of acute hospitals should be reduced to just four which would have scrapped Daisy Hill A&E. We can't have it every way, we don't have the resources to have local A&E departments. Health is ring fenced and only gets 3% when it needs 5% to stand still without any increase in services. The likely closure of Daisy Hill has happened when the politicians are offside and not by coincidence, it is to their advantage that administrators do the work they should be doing if they were up to the job and running the country. BTW the problems in Daisy Hill are long running and the Health Minister had turned her face away from dealing with them before shutting down government.
The cuts in education are real and are probably closer to 7 or 8% in real terms and exist for one reason, i.e. the mitigation of welfare reform cuts has cost so much that the budget for them has been increased by 9% in cash terms. This had to be taken from somewhere and education, agriculture, economy, infrastructure and justice have all been reduced to pay for not implementing the welfare reform. Again this works in favour of SF-DUP coalition as it maintains their mitigation of welfare but the civil servants get the blame for taking the additional cost from the education and the other areas.
RHI and the respect agenda was a fig leaf for the failure of the DUP-SF to be able to produce a budget for 2017-18 by pulling down the assembly and handing over the problem to the UK government and civil servants. Why do you think that DUP handed over the finance ministry to SF having carefully guarded it for so long to keep it anyway from nationalist and republican rouges and renegades? It was a poisoned chalice that was too hot to handle (i know mixed metaphors) and the only way out was to pull down the assembly for something that had not been a problem only a matter of weeks before. How would it play in Dublin when a SF finance minister implemented severe cuts to public services when its TD had and continued to harangue FG for its cuts in the RoI?
At some stage people in N.Ireland need to wake up and see that the cuts are real, inevitable, not the fault of Brokenshire or the civil servants, the budget cannot meet all of our needs. If politicians prevent welfare cuts by taking so much from other budgets, we must expect cuts elsewhere even if they didn't have the courage to tell everyone this would happen.
The richest 1% of people in the UK own 50% of everything. They should pay extra tax instead of having education cuts.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 02, 2017, 06:40:31 PM
Gerry kelly stepping aside for john finucane. Might make thinks a bit closer esp if sdlp picked someone other than mallon. Would be good to see dodds go
Interesting choice of candidate and he is someone capable of putting it up to Nigel Dodds although I suspect Dodds is still favourite to take the seat.
Quote from: seafoid on May 02, 2017, 06:53:01 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 27, 2017, 11:45:22 PM
Away from the electioneering, two major issues have come to the fore away from politicians:
1. The disaster in the health system where Daisy Hill is just a symptom
2. The swingeing cuts in education.
All hailed the Bengoa report which was the agreed way forward. It and all previous reports on health proposed that the number of acute hospitals should be reduced to just four which would have scrapped Daisy Hill A&E. We can't have it every way, we don't have the resources to have local A&E departments. Health is ring fenced and only gets 3% when it needs 5% to stand still without any increase in services. The likely closure of Daisy Hill has happened when the politicians are offside and not by coincidence, it is to their advantage that administrators do the work they should be doing if they were up to the job and running the country. BTW the problems in Daisy Hill are long running and the Health Minister had turned her face away from dealing with them before shutting down government.
The cuts in education are real and are probably closer to 7 or 8% in real terms and exist for one reason, i.e. the mitigation of welfare reform cuts has cost so much that the budget for them has been increased by 9% in cash terms. This had to be taken from somewhere and education, agriculture, economy, infrastructure and justice have all been reduced to pay for not implementing the welfare reform. Again this works in favour of SF-DUP coalition as it maintains their mitigation of welfare but the civil servants get the blame for taking the additional cost from the education and the other areas.
RHI and the respect agenda was a fig leaf for the failure of the DUP-SF to be able to produce a budget for 2017-18 by pulling down the assembly and handing over the problem to the UK government and civil servants. Why do you think that DUP handed over the finance ministry to SF having carefully guarded it for so long to keep it anyway from nationalist and republican rouges and renegades? It was a poisoned chalice that was too hot to handle (i know mixed metaphors) and the only way out was to pull down the assembly for something that had not been a problem only a matter of weeks before. How would it play in Dublin when a SF finance minister implemented severe cuts to public services when its TD had and continued to harangue FG for its cuts in the RoI?
At some stage people in N.Ireland need to wake up and see that the cuts are real, inevitable, not the fault of Brokenshire or the civil servants, the budget cannot meet all of our needs. If politicians prevent welfare cuts by taking so much from other budgets, we must expect cuts elsewhere even if they didn't have the courage to tell everyone this would happen.
The richest 1% of people in the UK own 50% of everything. They should pay extra tax instead of having education cuts.
I'd say the 1% you speak of have off shore accounts and only reside in Britain for small periods to avoid the tax payments.... you'd do the same if that's the rules... and if not you'd take your business elsewhere and make even more money... your crusade against the billionaires is futile. It's never going to happen so why bring it up all the time?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 02, 2017, 08:40:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 02, 2017, 06:53:01 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 27, 2017, 11:45:22 PM
Away from the electioneering, two major issues have come to the fore away from politicians:
1. The disaster in the health system where Daisy Hill is just a symptom
2. The swingeing cuts in education.
All hailed the Bengoa report which was the agreed way forward. It and all previous reports on health proposed that the number of acute hospitals should be reduced to just four which would have scrapped Daisy Hill A&E. We can't have it every way, we don't have the resources to have local A&E departments. Health is ring fenced and only gets 3% when it needs 5% to stand still without any increase in services. The likely closure of Daisy Hill has happened when the politicians are offside and not by coincidence, it is to their advantage that administrators do the work they should be doing if they were up to the job and running the country. BTW the problems in Daisy Hill are long running and the Health Minister had turned her face away from dealing with them before shutting down government.
The cuts in education are real and are probably closer to 7 or 8% in real terms and exist for one reason, i.e. the mitigation of welfare reform cuts has cost so much that the budget for them has been increased by 9% in cash terms. This had to be taken from somewhere and education, agriculture, economy, infrastructure and justice have all been reduced to pay for not implementing the welfare reform. Again this works in favour of SF-DUP coalition as it maintains their mitigation of welfare but the civil servants get the blame for taking the additional cost from the education and the other areas.
RHI and the respect agenda was a fig leaf for the failure of the DUP-SF to be able to produce a budget for 2017-18 by pulling down the assembly and handing over the problem to the UK government and civil servants. Why do you think that DUP handed over the finance ministry to SF having carefully guarded it for so long to keep it anyway from nationalist and republican rouges and renegades? It was a poisoned chalice that was too hot to handle (i know mixed metaphors) and the only way out was to pull down the assembly for something that had not been a problem only a matter of weeks before. How would it play in Dublin when a SF finance minister implemented severe cuts to public services when its TD had and continued to harangue FG for its cuts in the RoI?
At some stage people in N.Ireland need to wake up and see that the cuts are real, inevitable, not the fault of Brokenshire or the civil servants, the budget cannot meet all of our needs. If politicians prevent welfare cuts by taking so much from other budgets, we must expect cuts elsewhere even if they didn't have the courage to tell everyone this would happen.
The richest 1% of people in the UK own 50% of everything. They should pay extra tax instead of having education cuts.
I'd say the 1% you speak of have off shore accounts and only reside in Britain for small periods to avoid the tax payments.... you'd do the same if that's the rules... and if not you'd take your business elsewhere and make even more money... your crusade against the billionaires is futile. It's never going to happen so why bring it up all the time?
Because he is under the impression someone actually pays attention to what he says
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 02, 2017, 06:40:31 PM
Gerry kelly stepping aside for john finucane. Might make thinks a bit closer esp if sdlp picked someone other than mallon. Would be good to see dodds go
It's a pity Finucane did not come forward as an independent willing to take his seat. It would be something to have a Finucane putting it up to the Tory government at PMQ or any other occasion.
As an independent, the SDLP would have had to stand aside and Dodds could be taken down.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 02, 2017, 09:21:48 PM
It's a pity Finucane did not come forward as an independent willing to take his seat. It would be something to have a Finucane putting it up to the Tory government at PMQ or any other occasion.
As an independent, the SDLP would have had to stand aside and Dodds could be taken down.
Spot on.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 02, 2017, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 02, 2017, 06:40:31 PM
Gerry kelly stepping aside for john finucane. Might make thinks a bit closer esp if sdlp picked someone other than mallon. Would be good to see dodds go
It's a pity Finucane did not come forward as an independent willing to take his seat. It would be something to have a Finucane putting it up to the Tory government at PMQ or any other occasion.
As an independent, the SDLP would have had to stand aside and Dodds could be taken down.
Shame they didnt get the antibrexit pact going in a few constituencies and even given the greens a free run somewhere like upper bann or east derry to give them an outside chance. Anyhow nevermind the big thing here is finucane is young and intelligent something that all parties are struggling to attract and could go far in SF so quite an asset to the party rather than going it alone as an independent
I see the UUP haven't selected Mike Nesbitt for one of the Belfast constituencies. He's running in Strangford. Once again they're accepting the DUP's 2nd fiddle when they could be bringing in the middle unionist voice. He's their most high profile figure. Some of their more liberal small c christian-types would appeal to republican/nationalist/A.N.other voters in safe DUP constituencies. Back to that headcount then...
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 02, 2017, 10:02:23 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 02, 2017, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 02, 2017, 06:40:31 PM
Gerry kelly stepping aside for john finucane. Might make thinks a bit closer esp if sdlp picked someone other than mallon. Would be good to see dodds go
It's a pity Finucane did not come forward as an independent willing to take his seat. It would be something to have a Finucane putting it up to the Tory government at PMQ or any other occasion.
As an independent, the SDLP would have had to stand aside and Dodds could be taken down.
Shame they didnt get the antibrexit pact going in a few constituencies and even given the greens a free run somewhere like upper bann or east derry to give them an outside chance. Anyhow nevermind the big thing here is finucane is young and intelligent something that all parties are struggling to attract and could go far in SF so quite an asset to the party rather than going it alone as an independent
The trouble is he will standout in SF like a sore thumb, so far ahead of the veteran SF politicos and the current leadership and this will not rest easy with many of them. He has the background of the conflict in the loss of his father but with none of the connection to the actions of the IRA.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 02, 2017, 09:33:46 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 02, 2017, 09:21:48 PM
It's a pity Finucane did not come forward as an independent willing to take his seat. It would be something to have a Finucane putting it up to the Tory government at PMQ or any other occasion.
As an independent, the SDLP would have had to stand aside and Dodds could be taken down.
Spot on.
+2
Has he been active for SF? A definite vote-splitter there. SF trying to attract the middle class Antrim Rd crowd (who strangely enough, in my experience, seem to have a proportionately high representation within the legal profession).
Quote from: Ronnie on May 02, 2017, 10:36:23 PM
I see the UUP haven't selected Mike Nesbitt for one of the Belfast constituencies. He's running in Strangford. Once again they're accepting the DUP's 2nd fiddle when they could be bringing in the middle unionist voice. He's their most high profile figure. Some of their more liberal small c christian-types would appeal to republican/nationalist/A.N.other voters in safe DUP constituencies. Back to that headcount then...
Jez, might have to vote for Mike TV to get that ex UDR gobshite out.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 02, 2017, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 02, 2017, 06:40:31 PM
Gerry kelly stepping aside for john finucane. Might make thinks a bit closer esp if sdlp picked someone other than mallon. Would be good to see dodds go
It's a pity Finucane did not come forward as an independent willing to take his seat. It would be something to have a Finucane putting it up to the Tory government at PMQ or any other occasion.
As an independent, the SDLP would have had to stand aside and Dodds could be taken down.
Why would he take an oath of allegience to the Queen who's agents shot his dad? No self respecting Irish man would.
Quote from: AQMP on May 03, 2017, 09:13:01 AM
Quote from: Rois on May 02, 2017, 11:50:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 02, 2017, 09:33:46 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 02, 2017, 09:21:48 PM
It's a pity Finucane did not come forward as an independent willing to take his seat. It would be something to have a Finucane putting it up to the Tory government at PMQ or any other occasion.
As an independent, the SDLP would have had to stand aside and Dodds could be taken down.
Spot on.
+2
Has he been active for SF? A definite vote-splitter there. SF trying to attract the middle class Antrim Rd crowd (who strangely enough, in my experience, seem to have a proportionately high representation within the legal profession).
Former county footballer too. Clever move by SF, the Unionists always highlight victims of the conflict during an election campaign. Dodds a bit lacking there other than being hit with a brick thrown by a loyalist!
They did attempt to kill him at the Royal
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 03, 2017, 09:05:47 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 02, 2017, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 02, 2017, 06:40:31 PM
Gerry kelly stepping aside for john finucane. Might make thinks a bit closer esp if sdlp picked someone other than mallon. Would be good to see dodds go
It's a pity Finucane did not come forward as an independent willing to take his seat. It would be something to have a Finucane putting it up to the Tory government at PMQ or any other occasion.
As an independent, the SDLP would have had to stand aside and Dodds could be taken down.
Why would he take an oath of allegience to the Queen who's agents shot his dad? No self respecting Irish man would.
If Sinn Fein took their seats at Westminster they would have the chance to do what they did in the Assembly election.
I for one will not be casting a vote for someone who is not going to represent me!!
Quote from: AQMP on May 03, 2017, 09:24:22 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2017, 09:18:02 AM
Quote from: AQMP on May 03, 2017, 09:13:01 AM
Quote from: Rois on May 02, 2017, 11:50:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 02, 2017, 09:33:46 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 02, 2017, 09:21:48 PM
It's a pity Finucane did not come forward as an independent willing to take his seat. It would be something to have a Finucane putting it up to the Tory government at PMQ or any other occasion.
As an independent, the SDLP would have had to stand aside and Dodds could be taken down.
Spot on.
+2
Has he been active for SF? A definite vote-splitter there. SF trying to attract the middle class Antrim Rd crowd (who strangely enough, in my experience, seem to have a proportionately high representation within the legal profession).
Former county footballer too. Clever move by SF, the Unionists always highlight victims of the conflict during an election campaign. Dodds a bit lacking there other than being hit with a brick thrown by a loyalist!
They did attempt to kill him at the Royal
Did the RA not style that as an attack on his police guards?? Though maybe that was the story after the fact.
Not sure to be honest but I'd imagine they would have taken him out to. I remember that day on the road! was mental
Quote from: screenexile on May 03, 2017, 10:05:16 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 03, 2017, 09:05:47 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 02, 2017, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 02, 2017, 06:40:31 PM
Gerry kelly stepping aside for john finucane. Might make thinks a bit closer esp if sdlp picked someone other than mallon. Would be good to see dodds go
It's a pity Finucane did not come forward as an independent willing to take his seat. It would be something to have a Finucane putting it up to the Tory government at PMQ or any other occasion.
As an independent, the SDLP would have had to stand aside and Dodds could be taken down.
Why would he take an oath of allegience to the Queen who's agents shot his dad? No self respecting Irish man would.
If Sinn Fein took their seats at Westminster they would have the chance to do what they did in the Assembly election.
I for one will not be casting a vote for someone who is not going to represent me!!
Erm.. how exactly?
Quote from: screenexile on May 03, 2017, 10:05:16 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 03, 2017, 09:05:47 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 02, 2017, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 02, 2017, 06:40:31 PM
Gerry kelly stepping aside for john finucane. Might make thinks a bit closer esp if sdlp picked someone other than mallon. Would be good to see dodds go
It's a pity Finucane did not come forward as an independent willing to take his seat. It would be something to have a Finucane putting it up to the Tory government at PMQ or any other occasion.
As an independent, the SDLP would have had to stand aside and Dodds could be taken down.
Why would he take an oath of allegience to the Queen who's agents shot his dad? No self respecting Irish man would.
If Sinn Fein took their seats at Westminster they would have the chance to do what they did in the Assembly election.
I for one will not be casting a vote for someone who is not going to represent me!!
Have you ever considered that they would also lose votes and support from more hard line elements. It's pure guesswork since nobody knows how it would effect them overall (I don't think it would make much difference overall in terms of votes) but it's a stretch to think that a few MP's from the north have any impact whatsoever in Westminster anyway. You only have to look at the number of MP's still remaining in parliament when any of the local politician's are speaking. We are largely an irrelevance.
Quote from: screenexile on May 03, 2017, 10:05:16 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 03, 2017, 09:05:47 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 02, 2017, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 02, 2017, 06:40:31 PM
Gerry kelly stepping aside for john finucane. Might make thinks a bit closer esp if sdlp picked someone other than mallon. Would be good to see dodds go
It's a pity Finucane did not come forward as an independent willing to take his seat. It would be something to have a Finucane putting it up to the Tory government at PMQ or any other occasion.
As an independent, the SDLP would have had to stand aside and Dodds could be taken down.
Why would he take an oath of allegience to the Queen who's agents shot his dad? No self respecting Irish man would.
If Sinn Fein took their seats at Westminster they would have the chance to do what they did in the Assembly election.
I for one will not be casting a vote for someone who is not going to represent me!!
In an ideal world yes but seeing as the sdlp candidate doesnt have a hope in hell I would much rather have a nationalist abstentionist than an MP who is so obsessed with how social housing in his constituency affects 'his' numbers. McCausland was also obsessed on the subject and he has now gone hopefully deputy will soon be gone too
The election that keeps on giving
Under the silly undemocratic Westminster voting system a vote for anyone other than Dodds or Finucane in North Belfast is a wasted vote.
As for taking seats - that would really show the 550 or so English MPs .......
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 03, 2017, 10:49:53 AM
In an ideal world yes but seeing as the sdlp candidate doesnt have a hope in hell I would much rather have a nationalist abstentionist than an MP who is so obsessed with how social housing in his constituency affects 'his' numbers. McCausland was also obsessed on the subject and he has now gone hopefully deputy will soon be gone too
This is the really frustrating thing - there would be enough non-unionist voters to give an "anyone but Dodds" vote to an independent nationalist.
Quote from: yellowcard on May 03, 2017, 10:47:50 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 03, 2017, 10:05:16 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 03, 2017, 09:05:47 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 02, 2017, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 02, 2017, 06:40:31 PM
Gerry kelly stepping aside for john finucane. Might make thinks a bit closer esp if sdlp picked someone other than mallon. Would be good to see dodds go
It's a pity Finucane did not come forward as an independent willing to take his seat. It would be something to have a Finucane putting it up to the Tory government at PMQ or any other occasion.
As an independent, the SDLP would have had to stand aside and Dodds could be taken down.
Why would he take an oath of allegience to the Queen who's agents shot his dad? No self respecting Irish man would.
If Sinn Fein took their seats at Westminster they would have the chance to do what they did in the Assembly election.
I for one will not be casting a vote for someone who is not going to represent me!!
Have you ever considered that they would also lose votes and support from more hard line elements. It's pure guesswork since nobody knows how it would effect them overall (I don't think it would make much difference overall in terms of votes) but it's a stretch to think that a few MP's from the north have any impact whatsoever in Westminster anyway. You only have to look at the number of MP's still remaining in parliament when any of the local politician's are speaking. We are largely an irrelevance.
Then why should we vote for anyone if they can't represent us @ Westminster?!!
Quote from: screenexile on May 03, 2017, 11:37:53 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on May 03, 2017, 10:47:50 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 03, 2017, 10:05:16 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 03, 2017, 09:05:47 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 02, 2017, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 02, 2017, 06:40:31 PM
Gerry kelly stepping aside for john finucane. Might make thinks a bit closer esp if sdlp picked someone other than mallon. Would be good to see dodds go
It's a pity Finucane did not come forward as an independent willing to take his seat. It would be something to have a Finucane putting it up to the Tory government at PMQ or any other occasion.
As an independent, the SDLP would have had to stand aside and Dodds could be taken down.
Why would he take an oath of allegience to the Queen who's agents shot his dad? No self respecting Irish man would.
If Sinn Fein took their seats at Westminster they would have the chance to do what they did in the Assembly election.
I for one will not be casting a vote for someone who is not going to represent me!!
Have you ever considered that they would also lose votes and support from more hard line elements. It's pure guesswork since nobody knows how it would effect them overall (I don't think it would make much difference overall in terms of votes) but it's a stretch to think that a few MP's from the north have any impact whatsoever in Westminster anyway. You only have to look at the number of MP's still remaining in parliament when any of the local politician's are speaking. We are largely an irrelevance.
Then why should we vote for anyone if they can't represent us @ Westminster?!!
Because the other option certainly won't represent you irrespective if they take a seat in Westminster.
Quote from: screenexile on May 03, 2017, 10:05:16 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 03, 2017, 09:05:47 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 02, 2017, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 02, 2017, 06:40:31 PM
Gerry kelly stepping aside for john finucane. Might make thinks a bit closer esp if sdlp picked someone other than mallon. Would be good to see dodds go
It's a pity Finucane did not come forward as an independent willing to take his seat. It would be something to have a Finucane putting it up to the Tory government at PMQ or any other occasion.
As an independent, the SDLP would have had to stand aside and Dodds could be taken down.
Why would he take an oath of allegience to the Queen who's agents shot his dad? No self respecting Irish man would.
If Sinn Fein took their seats at Westminster they would have the chance to do what they did in the Assembly election.
I for one will not be casting a vote for someone who is not going to represent me!!
What bollix, noone listens to NI MP's.
Quote from: AQMP on May 03, 2017, 12:15:15 PM
This is a tough one for the SDLP. I've a lot of time for Nichola Mallon (I thought she wiped the floor with Naomi Long on TV last week re: pacts) and she's been very strong in her support of the Finucane family in their campaign for justice. If she runs, Dodds is as safe as houses and she'll also be campaigning directly "against" John Finucane. If she doesn't run or if the party select a lower profile candidate against a political novice then it doesn't say much for the long term ambition and also it could undo the work Mallon has done to build up momentum in the constituency over the past five years or so.
I think you're right, although SDLP do not do "double-jobbing" so they have an excuse for Mallon not to run (too useful at Stormont).
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 03, 2017, 12:36:12 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 03, 2017, 10:05:16 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 03, 2017, 09:05:47 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 02, 2017, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 02, 2017, 06:40:31 PM
Gerry kelly stepping aside for john finucane. Might make thinks a bit closer esp if sdlp picked someone other than mallon. Would be good to see dodds go
It's a pity Finucane did not come forward as an independent willing to take his seat. It would be something to have a Finucane putting it up to the Tory government at PMQ or any other occasion.
As an independent, the SDLP would have had to stand aside and Dodds could be taken down.
Why would he take an oath of allegience to the Queen who's agents shot his dad? No self respecting Irish man would.
If Sinn Fein took their seats at Westminster they would have the chance to do what they did in the Assembly election.
I for one will not be casting a vote for someone who is not going to represent me!!
What bollix, noone listens to NI MP's.
No one cares or listens to anyone in the North. MPs or Joe Soap.
People were pissed because the North voted Remain. Now we expect Westminister to listen to that? We can't even vote to see which Eton toff becomes head honcho. We have to sit back and watch some toffee nosed bollix make decisions on a state they know nothing about, and we have no say in that whatsoever. Yet we seem to just have accepted that situation for decades.
Former Sinn Fein Vice President and MP for West Tyrone since 2001, Pat Doherty, has announced he will not seek re-election.
He won't be missed as Westminster was not the only place from which he abstained.
Barry McElduff will be the candidate defending a majority of 10,060 votes that the party achieved at the 2015 election.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 03, 2017, 10:30:22 PM
Former Sinn Fein Vice President and MP for West Tyrone since 2001, Pat Doherty, has announced he will not seek re-election.
He won't be missed as Westminster was not the only place from which he abstained.
Barry McElduff will be the candidate defending a majority of 10,060 votes that the party achieved at the 2015 election.
Sweet Jaysus, well I suppose it cudda been Sean Clarke and he'll be around (the constituency at least) unlike the last man
You couldnt help but think that Sorchca McAneispe would be close to the nomination if she had of stuck with them.
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 03, 2017, 10:47:41 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 03, 2017, 10:30:22 PM
Former Sinn Fein Vice President and MP for West Tyrone since 2001, Pat Doherty, has announced he will not seek re-election.
He won't be missed as Westminster was not the only place from which he abstained.
Barry McElduff will be the candidate defending a majority of 10,060 votes that the party achieved at the 2015 election.
Sweet Jaysus, well I suppose it cudda been Sean Clarke and he'll be around (the constituency at least) unlike the last man
You couldnt help but think that Sorchca McAneispe would be close to the nomination if she had of stuck with them.
If she was so far back in the queue for nomination as an assembly candidate in 2016 that shows passed by others who had never been elected as a councillor like herself. Enough to make her walk away and try to compete as an independent in 2016 and 2017.
Great artwork on this chart posted on Slugger
(https://redirect.viglink.com/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FC6GkMsYXEAAJL-x.jpg&key=cfdfcf52dffd0a702a61bad27507376d)
Have all the candidates in the north been announced yet for the Westminster elections? Seems like the parties have been taking their time canvassing and getting posters up this time etc.
From Private Eye
"Nigel Dodds, (DUP, N Belfast) told Theresa May (on Article 50 day) May I congratulate the PM for her statement, congratulate her and her government on actualy deelivering the will of the people of the UK as a whole instead of seeking to undermine it and wish her and her government well in the negotiations that lie ahead? we on this bench are convinced tat she is the right leader of our country for these challenging times. "
" Dodds treacly comments confirmed what has long been pretty evident in Westminster- namely that the DUP has become Tory in all but name and that the only surprise is that its MPs still sit on the opposition benches. "
I wonder if this is a reaction to the demographic developments in NI.
Quote from: seafoid on May 10, 2017, 12:01:02 PM
From Private Eye
"Nigel Dodds, (DUP, N Belfast) told Theresa May (on Article 50 day) May I congratulate the PM for her statement, congratulate her and her government on actualy deelivering the will of the people of the UK as a whole instead of seeking to undermine it and wish her and her government well in the negotiations that lie ahead? we on this bench are convinced tat she is the right leader of our country for these challenging times. "
" Dodds treacly comments confirmed what has long been pretty evident in Westminster- namely that the DUP has become Tory in all but name and that the only surprise is that its MPs still sit on the opposition benches. "
I wonder if this is a reaction to the demographic developments in NI.
Well when May gets her massive increase in seats Dodds and co will have the same influence as Lord Sutch of the Monster Raving Loony Party. Even DUP supporters see Brexit for the disaster its going to be
This was in the IT last April
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/why-tory-hating-is-a-rational-activity-1.2610998
"According to calculations based on figures contained in last month's UK budget, the cumulative impact on Stormont's budgets of a decade of Tory austerity from 2010 to 2021 will be a real-terms cut of 13 per cent in current expenditure and an eye-watering 27 per cent in capital spend, in the world's fifth-largest economy."
And that was BEFORE Brexit
And the DUP is in total Tory arslikhan mode
It would make you wonder
North Belfast election results 2017
DUP 13,309
UUP 2,418
PUP 2,053
AP 3,487
SF 12,204
SDLP 5,431
PBP 1,559
GP 711
WP 248
IND 66
The unionist vote was 17,780 in the last Assembly election, SF had 12,204 votes when people had a choice of SDLP, PBP & WP who hold 7238 votes of which at least 5576 are needed to equal the unionist vote in the last Assembly election. There is a very good chance DUP will increase on the 17,780 votes to at least levels of 2015 GE.
2015 General Election
DUP Nigel Dodds 19,096
SF Gerry Kelly 13,770
SDLP A Maginness 3,338
APNI Jason O'Neill 2,941
WP Gemma Weir 919
IND Fra Hughes 529
Quote from: AQMP on May 10, 2017, 04:24:32 PM
BBC reporting that the SDLP has selected Martin McAuley to run in North Belfast. He ran as an Independent in 2010 and got 403 votes.
Yeah he has been a press officer for them so you would assume this is SDLP giving SF a clear run at it ?
Feels like it...
It would be great if dodds were to lose westminster seat though i would still be surprised.
The tories will continue to cut but as long as the dup continue to line their pockets they won't care.
Quote from: yellowcard on May 10, 2017, 11:13:19 AM
Have all the candidates in the north been announced yet for the Westminster elections? Seems like the parties have been taking their time canvassing and getting posters up this time etc.
Alliance Party (18 candidates)
East Antrim – Stewart Dickson
East Belfast – Naomi Long
East Londonderry – Chris McCaw
Fermanagh and South Tyrone – Noreen Campbell
Foyle – John Doherty
Lagan Valley – Aaron McIntyre
Mid Ulster – Fay Watson
Newry and Armagh – Jackie Coade
North Antrim – Patricia O'Lynn
North Belfast – Sam Nelson
North Down – Andrew Muir
South Antrim – Neil Kelly
South Belfast – Paula Bradshaw
South Down – Andrew McMurray
Strangford – Kellie Armstrong
Upper Bann – Tara Doyle
West Belfast – Sorcha Eastwood
West Tyrone – Stephen Donnelly
Sinn Fein (18 candidates)
Foyle- Elisha McCallion
South Belfast- Mairtin O'Mulleoir
South Down – Chris Hazzard
East Antrim- Oliver McMullan
East Belfast- Mairead O'Donnell
East Derry- Dermot Nicholl
Fermanagh & South Tyrone- Michelle Gildernew
Lagan Valley-
Mid Ulster- Francie Molloy
Newry & Armagh- Mickey Brady
North Antrim- Cara McShane
North Belfast- John Finucane
North Down- Therese McCartney
South Antrim- Declan Kearney
Strangford-
Upper Bann- John O'Dowd
West Belfast- Paul Maskey
West Tyrone- Barry McElduff
SDLP (18 Candidates)
Foyle- Mark Durkan
South Belfast- Alasdair McDonnell
South Down – Margaret Ritchie
East Antrim- Cllr Margaret Anne McKillop
East Belfast- Séamas de Faoite
East Derry- Cllr Stephanie Quigley
Fermanagh & South Tyrone- Cllr Mary Garrity
Lagan Valley- Cllr Pat Catney MLA
Mid Ulster- Cllr Malachy Quinn
Newry & Armagh- Justin McNulty MLA
North Antrim- Cllr Declan O'Loan
North Belfast- Martin McAuley
North Down- Caoímhe McNeill
South Antrim- Cllr Roisin Lynch
Strangford- Cllr Joe Boyle
Upper Bann- Cllr Declan McAlinden
West Belfast- Cllr Tim Attwood
West Tyrone- Daniel McCrossan MLA
DUP (17 candidates)
North Belfast – Nigel Dodds
East Belfast – Gavin Robinson
East Antrim – Sammy Wilson
North Antrim – Ian Paisley
East Londonderry – Gregory Campbell
Lagan Valley – Jeffrey Donaldson
South Belfast- Emma Little-Pengelly
South Down-Diane Forsythe
Upper Bann – David Simpson
Strangford – Jim Shannon
South Antrim – Paul Girvan MLA
West Belfast – Ald Frank McCoubrey
Foyle – Gary Middleton MLA
Mid Ulster- Keith Buchanan
West Tyrone-Tom Buchanan
Newry & Armagh- William Irwin
North Down- Alex Easton
Ulster Unionist Party (15 candidates)
Newry & Armagh -Sam Nicholson
South Belfast – Michael Henderson
East Belfast- Hazel Legge
East Antrim- John Stewart
East Londonderry- Richard Holmes
Fermanagh & South Tyrone- Tom Elliott
Lagan Valley – Robbie Butler
Mid Ulster – Mark Glasgow
North Antrim- Jackson Minford
North Down- Alan Chambers
South Antrim- Danny Kinahan
South Down- Harold McKee
Strangford- Mike Nesbitt
Upper Bann- Doug Beattie
West Tyrone- Alicia Clarke
Green Party (7 candidates)
North Down- Steven Agnew MLA
South Belfast- Clare Bailey MLA
East Belfast- Cllr Georgina Milne
Fermanagh & South Tyrone- Tanya Jones
Strangford- Ricky Bamford
North Belfast- Malachi O'Hara
West Tyrone- Ciaran McClean
BBC & UTV & most reporters seem to be aimlessly going along with the ridiculous statements from the DUP & UUP that they are NOT indulging in a pact ... WTF ::)
Fermanagh/South Tyrone & North Belfast mustn't count then for some bizarre reason ???
And the TV/radio/press zoombies are 99% just going along with it ... FFS :-X
it seems to me that Fister is trying (and getting away with) to dupe the silly aul taigs into thinking she's all sweetness & light these days .. This blatant lie along with things like her visiting an Oirsh school (poor pet) and basically having her gub zipped up is all some dastardly plan to fool the crocodiles into staying in deep waters and forgetting to come out and vote ....
Dont let it work folks dont let it work ;)
Will SDLP get many votes in Fermanagh South Tyrone and North Belfast constituencies?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 14, 2017, 11:34:49 AM
Will SDLP get many votes in Fermanagh South Tyrone and North Belfast constituencies?
My feeling is "no" in north Belfast, the question is whether SF will get them or not.
John Finucane turning out for his first ever park run yesterday morn suggests he is out to get them anyway - good hunting ground.
Arlene serves up another 'crocodile' for SF, does she have no advisers or is she too arrogant to listen?
(http://i.imgur.com/hmKMP0U.jpg)
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/anger-over-arlene-fosters-disgraceful-sexist-description-of-sinn-feins-michelle-oneill-35713118.html (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/anger-over-arlene-fosters-disgraceful-sexist-description-of-sinn-feins-michelle-oneill-35713118.html)
I suppose then one could fairly describe Arlene as very 'black'.
So let me guess, Shinner voters going to the polling stations in blonde wigs ?
Banter
Quote from: Minder on May 14, 2017, 08:03:14 PM
So let me guess, Shinner voters going to the polling stations in blonde wigs ?
Banter
(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c46b1c602df527bf04196258e5bbefb5f5a6c5ca86fe1afff4504ec2237cedab.png?w=600&h=310)
Newsletter is reporting that SF is distributing leaflets with fake news or false claims or, as we used to say, lies and propaganda:
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/ex-sinn-fein-finance-minister-gets-his-sums-wrong-on-election-leaflet-1-7971351 (http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/ex-sinn-fein-finance-minister-gets-his-sums-wrong-on-election-leaflet-1-7971351)
(http://i.imgur.com/jzpHJoV.jpg)
Between the 2005 general election and the last general election Sinn Fein's vote has gone from 2,882 to 5,402 (almost doubled). However, the SDLP vote has not halved, the 10,339 votes for McDonnell in 2005 had fallen by just 7% to 9,560 votes in 2015. March's Assembly result – despite the fact that that election was a multi-seat PR contest – shows that the SDLP vote has not halved, falling by 19% to 8,353.
I hope O'Muilleor's maths is better when it comes to being in charge of Assembly finances.
Any word on when the Stormont election's going to be called? Any word on how the anti-brexit alliance is panning out? Any logic in Labour accepting a limit on the freedom of movement of labour? Any word on what special status us Northern Irelanders are going to be lumbered with? And, most importantly, what will be the religious makeup of the MPs we return?
Quote from: armaghniac on May 14, 2017, 07:35:46 PM
I suppose then one could fairly describe Arlene as very 'black'.
The best post I've seen on here in ~12 months.
Quote from: AQMP on May 23, 2017, 10:45:17 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 22, 2017, 03:37:41 PM
Newsletter is reporting that SF is distributing leaflets with fake news or false claims or, as we used to say, lies and propaganda:
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/ex-sinn-fein-finance-minister-gets-his-sums-wrong-on-election-leaflet-1-7971351 (http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/ex-sinn-fein-finance-minister-gets-his-sums-wrong-on-election-leaflet-1-7971351)
(http://i.imgur.com/jzpHJoV.jpg)
Between the 2005 general election and the last general election Sinn Fein's vote has gone from 2,882 to 5,402 (almost doubled). However, the SDLP vote has not halved, the 10,339 votes for McDonnell in 2005 had fallen by just 7% to 9,560 votes in 2015. March's Assembly result – despite the fact that that election was a multi-seat PR contest – shows that the SDLP vote has not halved, falling by 19% to 8,353.
I hope O'Muilleor's maths is better when it comes to being in charge of Assembly finances.
Taken from a contribution to Slugger O'Toole's discussion on this issue:
https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/05/22/mairtin-caught-telling-porky-pies-in-his-south-belfast-ae2017-campaign-leaflet/
"SF share of vote (or "vote" as the leaflet says) in 2005 was 9.0%;in March 2017, it was 17.7%, a 97% increase.
SDLP vote in 2005 was 32.3%, in March 2017 it was 19.4% (that's the combination of the two SDLP candidates, the 15.5% that you refer to is for just one SDLP candidate), a decline of 40.0%.
Did the SF vote double? It increased by 97%.
Did the SDLP vote halve? It decreased by 40.0%
The leaflet is basically accurate."
Basically accurate - that's what you want from someone in charge of the public purse - budget is basically right ::)
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on May 23, 2017, 11:04:09 AM
Quote from: AQMP on May 23, 2017, 10:45:17 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on May 22, 2017, 03:37:41 PM
Newsletter is reporting that SF is distributing leaflets with fake news or false claims or, as we used to say, lies and propaganda:
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/ex-sinn-fein-finance-minister-gets-his-sums-wrong-on-election-leaflet-1-7971351 (http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/ex-sinn-fein-finance-minister-gets-his-sums-wrong-on-election-leaflet-1-7971351)
(http://i.imgur.com/jzpHJoV.jpg)
Between the 2005 general election and the last general election Sinn Fein's vote has gone from 2,882 to 5,402 (almost doubled). However, the SDLP vote has not halved, the 10,339 votes for McDonnell in 2005 had fallen by just 7% to 9,560 votes in 2015. March's Assembly result – despite the fact that that election was a multi-seat PR contest – shows that the SDLP vote has not halved, falling by 19% to 8,353.
I hope O'Muilleor's maths is better when it comes to being in charge of Assembly finances.
Taken from a contribution to Slugger O'Toole's discussion on this issue:
https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/05/22/mairtin-caught-telling-porky-pies-in-his-south-belfast-ae2017-campaign-leaflet/
"SF share of vote (or "vote" as the leaflet says) in 2005 was 9.0%;in March 2017, it was 17.7%, a 97% increase.
SDLP vote in 2005 was 32.3%, in March 2017 it was 19.4% (that's the combination of the two SDLP candidates, the 15.5% that you refer to is for just one SDLP candidate), a decline of 40.0%.
Did the SF vote double? It increased by 97%.
Did the SDLP vote halve? It decreased by 40.0%
The leaflet is basically accurate."
Basically accurate - that's what you want from someone in charge of the public purse - budget is basically right ::)
Its the British taxpayers money so it doesn't really matter
With the DUP in a posiition of power in Westminster, is the assembly over?
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 10, 2017, 11:29:27 AM
With the DUP in a posiition of power in Westminster, is the assembly over?
Did it ever start?
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 10, 2017, 11:29:27 AM
With the DUP in a posiition of power in Westminster, is the assembly over?
Can't see a way forward at all now but i guess they will have to try.
The results of the GE with its surge in the DUP vote opening the gap with SF vote will put pressure on SF to get a resolution with the DUP which does not involve another Assembly election. On the basis of last week's results, DUP would return to a position of dominance in the Assembly rather than the near parity of the last Assembly election.
Ironic that the Tories embrace the DUP but no major Freestate party would touch Sinn Fein (the official representatives of Northern nationalism) with a barge pole in terms of allowing them into a coalition government.
Yet many deluded people still irrationally seek Irish unity
Numbers dear boy, numbers.....
The DUP economic policies are not only about taking money off people who work and giving it to people who don't.
The Dup are in the driving seat and are turning up the heat already
As part of the arrangement between the Conservative Unionist Negotiation Team (****) they have Brokenshire saying no Assembly after June 29. That's putting it up to Mascara Michelle
Quote from: Avondhu star on June 11, 2017, 10:28:46 PM
The Dup are in the driving seat and are turning up the heat already
As part of the arrangement between the Conservative Unionist Negotiation Team (****) they have Brokenshire saying no Assembly after June 29. That's putting it up to Mascara Michelle
Wouldn't be too sure this deal will still go through. Electorally it has the potential to do the Tories a lot of damage, is irresponsible at best and it's playing Russian Roulette with the GFA.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 12, 2017, 12:08:42 AM
Quote from: Avondhu star on June 11, 2017, 10:28:46 PM
The Dup are in the driving seat and are turning up the heat already
As part of the arrangement between the Conservative Unionist Negotiation Team (****) they have Brokenshire saying no Assembly after June 29. That's putting it up to Mascara Michelle
Wouldn't be too sure this deal will still go through. Electorally it has the potential to do the Tories a lot of damage, is irresponsible at best and it's playing Russian Roulette with the GFA.
Wishful thinking. The agreement will hold long enough for Corbyns mask to slip.
It has weakened SF and its approach to the Assembly as the DUP will just say NO No NO to any Assembly arrangements with which they disagree
Adams is preparing the path for the return to the executive by claiming that 'stormont is strategically the way to a united Ireland.
As Alex Kane has stated that SF will quickly return to the executive to act as a bulwark against the DUP-Tory government.
Better for SF to get back to Stormont in fear of a DUP-Tory return to direct rule with the DUP bringing home the bacon on a continuous basis with every important vote in the UK parliament.
Adams has played a foolish game in playing down the possible achievement of the DUP in making a deal with the Tories as they will undoubtedly bring funding to NI in return which will reduce austerity and hold up benefit cuts. In addition, it looks like the DUP will deliver the softest border possible.
"We don't believe that any deal between the DUP here and the English Tories will be good for the people here."
Gerry Adams - Stormont 12-6-2017
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 13, 2017, 02:18:29 PM
As Alex Kane has stated that SF will quickly return to the executive to act as a bulwark against the DUP-Tory government.
Kane was on Newstalk this morning. He pointed out that if DUP stay away from contentious stuff like parades, legacy, culture, gay rights (which no government is going to legislate for anyhow) and keep to cold cash they can do very well here. Government ain't going to be around for ever so longing for longer term stuff is foolish. Getting a bigger capital budget, health budget and social welfare budget can be seen to be working for "all of the people of Northern Ireland" and then push the Shinners to come back to Assembly to avoid this cash pot going to waste. The Shinners will look bad if they don't come to an agreement. Then once Assembly is up and running they can keep it local when it comes to rubbing themuns faces in it.
/Jim.
When you see the 10 DUPers and 7 SFers in photo opportunities in London you realise how fecked we are........would they have two brains between the lot of them?
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on June 13, 2017, 05:41:22 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 13, 2017, 02:18:29 PM
As Alex Kane has stated that SF will quickly return to the executive to act as a bulwark against the DUP-Tory government.
Kane was on Newstalk this morning. He pointed out that if DUP stay away from contentious stuff like parades, legacy, culture, gay rights (which no government is going to legislate for anyhow) and keep to cold cash they can do very well here. Government ain't going to be around for ever so longing for longer term stuff is foolish. Getting a bigger capital budget, health budget and social welfare budget can be seen to be working for "all of the people of Northern Ireland" and then push the Shinners to come back to Assembly to avoid this cash pot going to waste. The Shinners will look bad if they don't come to an agreement. Then once Assembly is up and running they can keep it local when it comes to rubbing themuns faces in it.
/Jim.
The tories have all the power in this "coalition ". The bottom line is the dup will vote for anything the tories want just to make sure there isn't another election where jeremy corbyn could become pm. That is their nightmare scenario and they will do anything to avoid that which the tories know all too well. The tory coalition with the lib dems saw the lib dems screwed over at every opportunity and they have suffered badly since.
Quote from: The Trap on June 13, 2017, 06:11:07 PM
When you see the 10 DUPers and 7 SFers in photo opportunities in London you realise how fecked we are........would they have two brains between the lot of them?
What were SF doing there anyway excepting registering for expenses? They might as well claim what they can because unless they agree with what Arlene wants they wont be getting any cheques from the Assembly. The general election result has scuppered their bully boying tactics
Quote from: lenny on June 13, 2017, 06:15:29 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on June 13, 2017, 05:41:22 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 13, 2017, 02:18:29 PM
As Alex Kane has stated that SF will quickly return to the executive to act as a bulwark against the DUP-Tory government.
Kane was on Newstalk this morning. He pointed out that if DUP stay away from contentious stuff like parades, legacy, culture, gay rights (which no government is going to legislate for anyhow) and keep to cold cash they can do very well here. Government ain't going to be around for ever so longing for longer term stuff is foolish. Getting a bigger capital budget, health budget and social welfare budget can be seen to be working for "all of the people of Northern Ireland" and then push the Shinners to come back to Assembly to avoid this cash pot going to waste. The Shinners will look bad if they don't come to an agreement. Then once Assembly is up and running they can keep it local when it comes to rubbing themuns faces in it.
/Jim.
The tories have all the power in this "coalition ". The bottom line is the dup will vote for anything the tories want just to make sure there isn't another election where jeremy corbyn could become pm. That is their nightmare scenario and they will do anything to avoid that which the tories know all too well. The tory coalition with the lib dems saw the lib dems screwed over at every opportunity and they have suffered badly since.
I thought it was a confidence and supply arrangement, not a coalition. A good choice. First confidence will be approving Week's Speech. First chance to lookp for cash. DUP might not like Cobryn but his biggest likely influence on Northern Ireland would be block grant, something I'd say he would increase if anything.
/Jim.
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on June 13, 2017, 05:41:22 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 13, 2017, 02:18:29 PM
As Alex Kane has stated that SF will quickly return to the executive to act as a bulwark against the DUP-Tory government.
Kane was on Newstalk this morning. He pointed out that if DUP stay away from contentious stuff like parades, legacy, culture, gay rights (which no government is going to legislate for anyhow) and keep to cold cash they can do very well here. Government ain't going to be around for ever so longing for longer term stuff is foolish. Getting a bigger capital budget, health budget and social welfare budget can be seen to be working for "all of the people of Northern Ireland" and then push the Shinners to come back to Assembly to avoid this cash pot going to waste. The Shinners will look bad if they don't come to an agreement. Then once Assembly is up and running they can keep it local when it comes to rubbing themuns faces in it.
/Jim.
There is the flip side where if they focus on parades and legacy issues and the tories let them away with it then they could bring the troubles back.
I doubt it will happen but they are not people you can count on.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 13, 2017, 08:16:43 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on June 13, 2017, 05:41:22 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 13, 2017, 02:18:29 PM
As Alex Kane has stated that SF will quickly return to the executive to act as a bulwark against the DUP-Tory government.
Kane was on Newstalk this morning. He pointed out that if DUP stay away from contentious stuff like parades, legacy, culture, gay rights (which no government is going to legislate for anyhow) and keep to cold cash they can do very well here. Government ain't going to be around for ever so longing for longer term stuff is foolish. Getting a bigger capital budget, health budget and social welfare budget can be seen to be working for "all of the people of Northern Ireland" and then push the Shinners to come back to Assembly to avoid this cash pot going to waste. The Shinners will look bad if they don't come to an agreement. Then once Assembly is up and running they can keep it local when it comes to rubbing themuns faces in it.
/Jim.
There is the flip side where if they focus on parades and legacy issues and the tories let them away with it then they could bring the troubles back.
I doubt it will happen but they are not people you can count on.
Their deal allows for a separate deal or payback for each time they are required to keep the Tories in power. At this time they will take the high ground to put the skids under Adams and SF by bringing back the bacon for the whole community. However, as time goes on they will payback the loyalist community to show they are looking after their own.
The oo statement was a thinly veiled threat to them really.
While they have some power i doubt the tories would push for parades etc and you say over time but i am not sure there is longevity in this.
Funnily enough last time there was a weak Tory government propped up by unionists, we on the Garvaghy Road got the shit kicked out of us to facilitate an Orange march down the road. There is zero chance of this happening as there would be considerable bloodshed.
Yeah i have been thinking that and am hoping it is not something that is on the cards.
You just never would know with these people. I wouldn't have much faith i n tories or dup :(
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on June 13, 2017, 09:31:15 PM
Funnily enough last time there was a weak Tory government propped up by unionists, we on the Garvaghy Road got the shit kicked out of us to facilitate an Orange march down the road. There is zero chance of this happening as there would be considerable bloodshed.
Well, the Orange Order would have had a shopping list for the DUP to take to May and I've no doubt the Garvaghy Road was on the top of it. May is a balloon, but not even she is stupid enough to entertain this. For a start, the PSNI would have to force it down the road, and that would be the end of the 'cross-community' acceptance of the police ... but never underestimate the idiocy of Brit policy when it comes to the Irish
19 years of peace. What the fcuk is wrong with those OO arseholes that they want to put the whole of the North back to that shite? 3 wee lads murdered in their beds, and they want to put people in danger of similar or worse. Talk about mental!
Quote from: BennyCake on June 13, 2017, 10:45:50 PM
19 years of peace. What the fcuk is wrong with those OO arseholes that they want to put the whole of the North back to that shite? 3 wee lads murdered in their beds, and they want to put people in danger of similar or worse. Talk about mental!
Simple. It's all about putting those pesky Fenians back in their box.
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on June 13, 2017, 11:32:12 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 13, 2017, 10:45:50 PM
19 years of peace. What the fcuk is wrong with those OO arseholes that they want to put the whole of the North back to that shite? 3 wee lads murdered in their beds, and they want to put people in danger of similar or worse. Talk about mental!
Simple. It's all about putting those pesky Fenians back in their box.
Precisely. Not one f##k could they give about peace.
Corporation tax, welfare, health.....hardly.
The first things on the DUP agenda will be flegs at City Hall, parades and getting murderers who wore a uniform a pardon for their actions.
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 14, 2017, 09:21:58 AM
Corporation tax, welfare, health.....hardly.
The first things on the DUP agenda will be flegs at City Hall, parades and getting murderers who wore a uniform a pardon for their actions.
You will be surprised at the funding that DUP will deliver to show SF they are in the driving seat and Westminster can deliver. Any payback to their loyalist community will occur much later in the parliament.
The murderers you refer to, are they any less due a pardon than those who were released in 1990s having incinerated 12 diners in the La Mon House hotel or 15 people drinking in McGurk's Bar or those not convicted for killing 10 workers at Kingsmills or 3 worshippers in the Mountain Lodge Pentecostal Church in Darkley.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 14, 2017, 01:50:24 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 14, 2017, 09:21:58 AM
Corporation tax, welfare, health.....hardly.
The first things on the DUP agenda will be flegs at City Hall, parades and getting murderers who wore a uniform a pardon for their actions.
You will be surprised at the funding that DUP will deliver to show SF they are in the driving seat and Westminster can deliver. Any payback to their loyalist community will occur much later in the parliament.
The murderers you refer to, are they any less due a pardon than those who were released in 1990s having incinerated 12 diners in the La Mon House hotel or 15 people drinking in McGurk's Bar or those not convicted for killing 10 workers at Kingsmills or 3 worshippers in the Mountain Lodge Pentecostal Church in Darkley.
Do you even know what the word pardon means?
Quote from: AQMP on June 14, 2017, 02:00:31 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 14, 2017, 01:50:24 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 14, 2017, 09:21:58 AM
Corporation tax, welfare, health.....hardly.
The first things on the DUP agenda will be flegs at City Hall, parades and getting murderers who wore a uniform a pardon for their actions.
You will be surprised at the funding that DUP will deliver to show SF they are in the driving seat and Westminster can deliver. Any payback to their loyalist community will occur much later in the parliament.
The murderers you refer to, are they any less due a pardon than those who were released in 1990s having incinerated 12 diners in the La Mon House hotel or 15 people drinking in McGurk's Bar or those not convicted for killing 10 workers at Kingsmills or 3 worshippers in the Mountain Lodge Pentecostal Church in Darkley.
Prisoners released as a result of the GFA were not pardoned. I'm not sure how you pardon someone who hasn't been convicted of something??
You issue letters from HM government to absolve them of any future conviction or provide them with a pardon from HM as the Blair government provided to SF and IRA members.
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 14, 2017, 02:03:52 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 14, 2017, 01:50:24 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 14, 2017, 09:21:58 AM
Corporation tax, welfare, health.....hardly.
The first things on the DUP agenda will be flegs at City Hall, parades and getting murderers who wore a uniform a pardon for their actions.
You will be surprised at the funding that DUP will deliver to show SF they are in the driving seat and Westminster can deliver. Any payback to their loyalist community will occur much later in the parliament.
The murderers you refer to, are they any less due a pardon than those who were released in 1990s having incinerated 12 diners in the La Mon House hotel or 15 people drinking in McGurk's Bar or those not convicted for killing 10 workers at Kingsmills or 3 worshippers in the Mountain Lodge Pentecostal Church in Darkley.
Do you even know what the word pardon means?
And your point is?
So if otr letters is not a amnesty or a pardon what would you classify it as??
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 14, 2017, 03:59:56 PM
So if otr letters is not a amnesty or a pardon what would you classify it as??
I could be wrong but I presumed they were just letters saying "you are not currently under investigation by the authorities".
Quote from: screenexile on June 14, 2017, 04:01:02 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 14, 2017, 03:59:56 PM
So if otr letters is not a amnesty or a pardon what would you classify it as??
I could be wrong but I presumed they were just letters saying "you are not currently under investigation by the authorities".
Exactly
Quote from: screenexile on June 14, 2017, 04:01:02 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 14, 2017, 03:59:56 PM
So if otr letters is not a amnesty or a pardon what would you classify it as??
I could be wrong but I presumed they were just letters saying "you are not currently under investigation by the authorities".
When this letter was presented in court by John Downey he could not be prosecuted and was an effective pardon or amnesty for the Hyde Park bombing killing 4 people.
His letter said:
"The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has been informed by the attorney general that on the basis of the information currently available, there is no outstanding direction for prosecution in Northern Ireland, there are no warrants in existence, nor are you wanted in Northern Ireland for arrest, questioning or charge by the police. "The Police Service of Northern Ireland are not aware of any interest in you from any other police force in the UK. If any other outstanding offence or offences come to light, or if any request for extradition were to be received, these would have to be dealt with in the usual way."The problem for the Northern Ireland Office was that at the time the letter was sent, John Downey was listed as wanted by the Metropolitan Police in connection with the Hyde Park bombing and PSNI had not told the attorney general about this, so it was not new evidence.
Other OTR letters are effective pardons/amnesties as most cases are no longer being currently investigated.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 14, 2017, 06:25:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 14, 2017, 04:01:02 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 14, 2017, 03:59:56 PM
So if otr letters is not a amnesty or a pardon what would you classify it as??
I could be wrong but I presumed they were just letters saying "you are not currently under investigation by the authorities".
When this letter was presented in court by John Downey he could not be prosecuted and was an effective pardon or amnesty for the Hyde Park bombing killing 4 people.
His letter said:
"The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has been informed by the attorney general that on the basis of the information currently available, there is no outstanding direction for prosecution in Northern Ireland, there are no warrants in existence, nor are you wanted in Northern Ireland for arrest, questioning or charge by the police. "The Police Service of Northern Ireland are not aware of any interest in you from any other police force in the UK. If any other outstanding offence or offences come to light, or if any request for extradition were to be received, these would have to be dealt with in the usual way."
The problem for the Northern Ireland Office was that at the time the letter was sent, John Downey was listed as wanted by the Metropolitan Police in connection with the Hyde Park bombing and PSNI had not told the attorney general about this, so it was not new evidence.
Other OTR letters are effective pardons/amnesties as most cases are no longer being currently investigated.
Nice of you to convict him without a trial, who needs British justice when we've got you about the place? BTW, you forgot about the poor wee horses. At the time there was more made out of them by the media than the four members of the British armed forces killed... I'm only surprised Sefton wasn't given the Victoria Cross, though they did erect a lovely statue of him, I believe
everyone here appears to be ignoring 13 Scottish Torys who will want exactly what the DUP gets.
What about the poor Welsh? Nothing for them?
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 14, 2017, 10:15:25 PM
everyone here appears to be ignoring 13 Scottish Torys who will want exactly what the DUP gets.
And they will get it. That will show up the S.N.P. and bury indyref2. Its all going wrong for Gerry and the Peacemakers. Arlene will have them licking out of her hand
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 14, 2017, 10:15:25 PM
everyone here appears to be ignoring 13 Scottish Torys who will want exactly what the DUP gets.
Everyone with their hand out for the crumbs from England's table. Embarrasing
Quote from: Avondhu star on June 15, 2017, 12:47:51 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 14, 2017, 10:15:25 PM
everyone here appears to be ignoring 13 Scottish Torys who will want exactly what the DUP gets.
And they will get it. That will show up the S.N.P. and bury indyref2. Its all going wrong for Gerry and the Peacemakers. Arlene will have them licking out of her hand
If that happens, it would definitely be worse than George Galloway & Rula Lenska.
Interesting thread on Twitter from Richard Bullick, former DUP adviser for many years who left in the last few months to go into PR. Former DUP SPAD to NI First Minister 2008-2017, SPAD to NI Finance Minister 2007-2008, SPAD to NI Regional Dev. Minister 2000-2002, Head of Policy DUP 2002-2007:
With less than two weeks to the latest Stormont talks deadline it might be useful to reflect on the lessons from negotiations NI style. At the request of the parties the names have been omitted, out of respect for the truth everything else has been told as it occurred! So here's just a few tactics I've seen by various players over the last 15 years ... (you know who you are).
1. Agree the importance of confidentiality of negotiations while adding Brian Rowan to cc list for all sensitive documents;
2. Wrong-foot opponents by pretending to act irrationally. Double down on strategy by actually acting irrationally.
3. Present financial asks in appropriate format – handwritten, on jotter page – all numbers divisible by 1 billion.
4. Claim there is no more money then present 'generous' financial package with little or no actual new money – hope no one notices.
5. Ensure Ministers still rigorously Ministers stick to the Government policy (of the previous administration).
6. Set deadline, break deadline, claim next deadline really is deadline, repeat as often as necessary.
7. Enter negotiations with wholly unrealistic demands until negotiations reach climax then increase demands.
8. Add to demands at regular intervals by adopting other parties demands and passing them off as your own.
9. Keep other parties negotiators busy while conducting real negotiations at another venue altogether.
10. Create a sense of involvement in the process by appearing on the media more often than in talks.
11. When deal finally done agree that things will be different in the future and things really have changed.
12. Deny that final agreement could have been done in a few hours and ignore the fact that long standing red lines have been breached.
Nelson McCausland is an odious bollix, but one of the reasons he is so odious is that he understands perfectly well but spouts bigotry to those who do not. One thing he said on the radio there was that the billion would bring SF back into the Assembly as they main objective was in the South and they couldn't be supporting austerity in the 6 counties, now they don't need to. Sad, but likely true.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 26, 2017, 11:44:53 AM
Nelson McCausland is an odious bollix, but one of the reasons he is so odious is that he understands perfectly well but spouts bigotry to those who do not. One thing he said on the radio there was that the billion would bring SF back into the Assembly as they main objective was in the South and they couldn't be supporting austerity in the 6 counties, now they don't need to. Sad, but likely true.
But Sinn Fein want Arlene Foster to stand down. They wont betray their principles surely
Quote from: Avondhu star on June 26, 2017, 12:20:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 26, 2017, 11:44:53 AM
Nelson McCausland is an odious bollix, but one of the reasons he is so odious is that he understands perfectly well but spouts bigotry to those who do not. One thing he said on the radio there was that the billion would bring SF back into the Assembly as they main objective was in the South and they couldn't be supporting austerity in the 6 counties, now they don't need to. Sad, but likely true.
But Sinn Fein want Arlene Foster to stand down. They wont betray their principles surely
Of course not, their party stands for "ourselves" and they will look after themselves.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 26, 2017, 12:26:41 PM
Quote from: Avondhu star on June 26, 2017, 12:20:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 26, 2017, 11:44:53 AM
Nelson McCausland is an odious bollix, but one of the reasons he is so odious is that he understands perfectly well but spouts bigotry to those who do not. One thing he said on the radio there was that the billion would bring SF back into the Assembly as they main objective was in the South and they couldn't be supporting austerity in the 6 counties, now they don't need to. Sad, but likely true.
But Sinn Fein want Arlene Foster to stand down. They wont betray their principles surely
Of course not, their party stands for "ourselves" and they will look after themselves.
+1
SF need to stand up to Foster and let Stormont go, Tories will trump them in Westminster for now. DUP will lose out in the end.
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 26, 2017, 02:34:53 PM
SF need to stand up to Foster and let Stormont go, Tories will trump them in Westminster for now. DUP will lose out in the end.
Your SF leader has stated that Stormont is key to the strategy for achieving a UI.
In my opinion, which is not one valued by Gerry Adams, SF should resume in Stormont. However, they should state that if Brexit results in the imposition without consultation of any measures which make more difficult the conduct of trade or the passage of goods people or vehicles on the island of Ireland, then the British will have reneged on the GFA and that involvement will end.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 26, 2017, 06:48:29 PM
In my opinion, which is not one valued by Gerry Adams, SF should resume in Stormont. However, they should state that if Brexit results in the imposition without consultation of any measures which make more difficult the conduct of trade or the passage of goods people or vehicles on the island of Ireland, then the British will have reneged on the GFA and that involvement will end.
Yes, but I hear that you rate your own opinion very highly, lol.
Quote from: Orior on June 26, 2017, 08:29:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 26, 2017, 06:48:29 PM
In my opinion, which is not one valued by Gerry Adams, SF should resume in Stormont. However, they should state that if Brexit results in the imposition without consultation of any measures which make more difficult the conduct of trade or the passage of goods people or vehicles on the island of Ireland, then the British will have reneged on the GFA and that involvement will end.
Yes, but I hear that you rate your own opinion very highly, lol.
Somebody has got do it! That said, I don't trust my own opinion about my own opinion.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 26, 2017, 06:48:29 PM
Somebody has got do it! That said, I don't trust my own opinion about my own opinion.
Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one.
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 26, 2017, 02:34:53 PM
SF need to stand up to Foster and let Stormont go, Tories will trump them in Westminster for now. DUP will lose out in the end.
Here comes Arlene with the one billion wiping SF's face. No need for a Northern bank job.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on June 26, 2017, 06:40:49 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on June 26, 2017, 02:34:53 PM
SF need to stand up to Foster and let Stormont go, Tories will trump them in Westminster for now. DUP will lose out in the end.
Your SF leader has stated that Stormont is key to the strategy for achieving a UI.
He is not my leader I am not a member, just a voter.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 26, 2017, 06:48:29 PM
In my opinion, which is not one valued by Gerry Adams, SF should resume in Stormont. However, they should state that if Brexit results in the imposition without consultation of any measures which make more difficult the conduct of trade or the passage of goods people or vehicles on the island of Ireland, then the British will have reneged on the GFA and that involvement will end.
If? it may not restrict travel for citizens of either jurisdiction. It will restrict the movement of other EU citizens. It will pose significant difficulties for farmers, transport companies and industry. Unionists keep talking about the 70% trade wit the UK, which is not in jeopardy. However what is in jeopardy is 30% of our exports which go to the EU, thats a large chunk in any mans money.
Would the Irish language act be enough for Sinn Féin to hold their noses with Arlene remaining as first minister even after the RHI debacle?
Quote from: johnneycool on June 27, 2017, 11:32:26 AM
Would the Irish language act be enough for Sinn Féin to hold their noses with Arlene remaining as first minister even after the RHI debacle?
Only if she issues an apology in Irish.
Quote from: johnneycool on June 27, 2017, 11:32:26 AM
Would the Irish language act be enough for Sinn Féin to hold their noses with Arlene remaining as first minister even after the RHI debacle?
As some said, while the assembly doesn't sit, the MLAs are still being paid. The money the DUP are getting from the conservatives may disappear into sone's back pocket while there are no ministries to allocate it.
How can SF and the SDLP sit with the DUP in stormount while the DUP have the Tories by the ball sack. Its just not workable and as said before they both should walk away.
Quote from: Denn Forever on June 27, 2017, 12:07:14 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on June 27, 2017, 11:32:26 AM
Would the Irish language act be enough for Sinn Féin to hold their noses with Arlene remaining as first minister even after the RHI debacle?
As some said, while the assembly doesn't sit, the MLAs are still being paid. The money the DUP are getting from the conservatives may disappear into sone's back pocket while there are no ministries to allocate it.
Wrong. DUP have agreed it will still be used by civil service to carry on with projects decided by an overseeing committee of MPs with DUP input.
Not just elected MPs being paid but those members of the assembly commission who lost their seats remain on and paid until replaced by assembly being formally instituted. Also the speaker is paid his additional salary.
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/06/29/news/talks-set-to-conclude-but-agreement-remains-elusive-1070286/
Conservatives haven't the balls to do anything - Whens a deadline a deadline? - No wonder nothing can be agreed when they just keep saying you have to agree by x. When x comes - no keep talking and agree by Y and so it goes on!
Interesting comments from Naomi long earlier on RTÉ, basically that it's not about the Irish language act but parity of esteem
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 29, 2017, 10:31:07 PM
Interesting comments from Naomi long earlier on RTÉ, basically that it's not about the Irish language act but parity of esteem
She seems a decent sort to be fair .
"May's hands-off approach to Stormont is directly related to her position in her own party and its reliance on the DUP's MPs. Similar to the DUP's attitude to the GFA, the UK was never fully committed to Europe and the benefits were never fully reciprocated. These were Treaties, not something to be cherry-picked. The EU will miss them but the project continues, possibly with even further integration. A lot of recent decisions wouldn't be tolerated at Westminster: changing the RHI scheme, the serving of politico-developer interests in planning matters, NAMA and the £7m in off-shore accounts, Red Sky, legislation dictated by religious beliefs e.g. precluding the donation of 'gay blood' and gay marriage. The vast majority of people who live here are broadly liberal across gender, religion, sexual preference and race. The problem is that the vast majority also vote with the fear of 'our side and their side'."
I posted this 6 month ago. Since then I predicted that the DUP would been electorally penalised by the Protestant people of Northern Ireland for being out of touch. Paisley's words are still ringing. The unionist majority live in fear. Now I don't know who I trust less - the political elite at Westminster or the liberal elite in Belfast. Financial scandals pale in the context of Grenfell. I hope these public inquiries deliver real truth and justice. Politicians don't give one iota about the bottom rungs of the ladder. Another Stormont election should be called. THE DUP ARE AS ARCHAIC AS THE IRISH LANGUAGE. It's like fighting over the cds in a divorce. It's impossible to compare it to a flag or a parade. It's very dangerous when language gets dumbed down. About a year ago Obama quoted Yeats in saying that the centre may not hold. It's got that I lack all conviction. Perhaps the DUP know what beast slouches towards Bethlehem to be born..
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 29, 2017, 10:31:07 PM
Interesting comments from Naomi long earlier on RTÉ, basically that it's not about the Irish language act but parity of esteem
She is on the money, the denial of any legitimacy to Irish by Unionists is symptomatic of their whole approach to power sharing and parity of esteem. If the Shinners and the Stoops buckle on this their are doomed.
As far as I can see the people who voted for SF don't want Stormont, they got a big upsurge in votes when they pulled the plug on it. Unionists need Stormont, nationalists don't.
NI never has and never will work and no matter how many times they rearrange the deckchairs it never will. Why SF would try to make it work is unfathomable.
Ironic though that the people who want to make it 'a great wee place' are the also the people who do the most to make it a completely unworkable entity with their flegs and drums etc.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40450895 Unreal!
Quote from: Dire Ear on June 30, 2017, 11:00:34 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40450895 Unreal!
nothing surprises me up the north
Quote from: Dire Ear on June 30, 2017, 11:00:34 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40450895 Unreal!
Surprised?! The full truth was never going to see the light of day.
They were never going to be inspected, and to be honest after seeing the list it really wasn't one side of the house benefiting more than the other as it was a real mix, so both parties wouldn't really have been pushing for these inspections.
Quote from: Hereiam on June 30, 2017, 11:42:27 AM
They were never going to be inspected, and to be honest after seeing the list it really wasn't one side of the house benefiting more than the other as it was a real mix, so both parties wouldn't really have been pushing for these inspections.
Have you got the full list and was the breakdown split out between nationalist/unionist? The list I seen wasn't and there were a large proprtion of claimants names witheld.
Both sides lined their pockets on RHI.
One of the many reasons this place is fastly resembling a cesspit. Replace the violence with corruption at every corner and you get the idea
I will retell this story.A few years ago,I witnessed the DUP Mayor of Craigavon welcome guests from its twin town Ballina,in Irish,away from the camera.We are still tied up in the zero sum redundant toxic allegiances to two sovereign states who neither want nor understand us.This results in paralysis,and prioritises a Language Act over more pressing needs like Health and Education.
Like it or not nationalist Ireland at the time of the GFA freely consented to British Rule in the North.The next logical step is to make this form of government effective and accountable.There is no alternative I'm afraid,only direct Tory rule with a distinct DUP tinge.
Quote from: T Fearon on June 30, 2017, 02:59:33 PM
I will retell this story.A few years ago,I witnessed the DUP Mayor of Craigavon welcome guests from its twin town Ballina,in Irish,away from the camera.We are still tied up in the zero sum redundant toxic allegiances to two sovereign states who neither want nor understand us.This results in paralysis,and prioritises a Language Act over more pressing needs like Health and Education.
Like it or not nationalist Ireland at the time of the GFA freely consented to British Rule in the North.The next logical step is to make this form of government effective and accountable.There is no alternative I'm afraid,only direct Tory rule with a distinct DUP tinge.
This is the problem.
Very few on the hill are effective and no one is held accountable
Quote from: Taylor on June 30, 2017, 01:49:58 PM
Both sides lined their pockets on RHI.
One of the many reasons this place is fastly resembling a cesspit. Replace the violence with corruption at every corner and you get the idea
And fair play to them for lining their pockets. If someone gave me the same deal to heat my home, I'd have taken it. People are only looking after themselves. Nothing wrong with that. If there's a system there to be abused, abuse it.
Quote from: BennyCake on June 30, 2017, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 30, 2017, 01:49:58 PM
Both sides lined their pockets on RHI.
One of the many reasons this place is fastly resembling a cesspit. Replace the violence with corruption at every corner and you get the idea
And fair play to them for lining their pockets. If someone gave me the same deal to heat my home, I'd have taken it. People are only looking after themselves. Nothing wrong with that. If there's a system there to be abused, abuse it.
And ultimately who will pay for this abuse?
Quote from: Taylor on June 30, 2017, 03:46:23 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 30, 2017, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 30, 2017, 01:49:58 PM
Both sides lined their pockets on RHI.
One of the many reasons this place is fastly resembling a cesspit. Replace the violence with corruption at every corner and you get the idea
And fair play to them for lining their pockets. If someone gave me the same deal to heat my home, I'd have taken it. People are only looking after themselves. Nothing wrong with that. If there's a system there to be abused, abuse it.
And ultimately who will pay for this abuse?
If you're implying that it was taxpayers money that was spent on RHI, that's hardly accurate.
It was money. Not your tax money or my tax money, it was just money. If you work and pay tax, you have no say how much is taken from your wages. I'd imagine you're unhappy at the tax taken from you, but can you do anything about it? No. The mafia take their slice and there's feck all anyone can do about it.
So if there's 500 million spent on RHI, who gives a feck? It's not taxpayers money. It's just money. Not yours or mine. If RHI hadn't have happened, would the taxman have gave you and everyone else back a slice of that 500 million? No.
Like I said, if there's a system/scheme there to be abused, abuse it. Look after yourself, because those that govern you certainly wont!
Quote from: BennyCake on June 30, 2017, 03:56:44 PM
It was money. Not your tax money or my tax money, it was just money. If you work and pay tax, you have no say how much is taken from your wages. I'd imagine you're unhappy at the tax taken from you, but can you do anything about it? No. The mafia take their slice and there's feck all anyone can do about it.
/quote]
Which parts of public expenditure do you disagree with?
Quote from: T Fearon on June 30, 2017, 02:59:33 PM
I will retell this story.A few years ago,I witnessed the DUP Mayor of Craigavon welcome guests from its twin town Ballina,in Irish,away from the camera.We are still tied up in the zero sum redundant toxic allegiances to two sovereign states who neither want nor understand us.This results in paralysis,and prioritises a Language Act over more pressing needs like Health and Education.
Like it or not nationalist Ireland at the time of the GFA freely consented to British Rule in the North.The next logical step is to make this form of government effective and accountable.There is no alternative I'm afraid,only direct Tory rule with a distinct DUP tinge.
If you keep digging your utterly pointless hole you're going to come out in Australia very soon
Quote from: BennyCake on June 30, 2017, 03:56:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 30, 2017, 03:46:23 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 30, 2017, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 30, 2017, 01:49:58 PM
Both sides lined their pockets on RHI.
One of the many reasons this place is fastly resembling a cesspit. Replace the violence with corruption at every corner and you get the idea
And fair play to them for lining their pockets. If someone gave me the same deal to heat my home, I'd have taken it. People are only looking after themselves. Nothing wrong with that. If there's a system there to be abused, abuse it.
And ultimately who will pay for this abuse?
If you're implying that it was taxpayers money that was spent on RHI, that's hardly accurate.
It was money. Not your tax money or my tax money, it was just money. If you work and pay tax, you have no say how much is taken from your wages. I'd imagine you're unhappy at the tax taken from you, but can you do anything about it? No. The mafia take their slice and there's feck all anyone can do about it.
So if there's 500 million spent on RHI, who gives a feck? It's not taxpayers money. It's just money. Not yours or mine. If RHI hadn't have happened, would the taxman have gave you and everyone else back a slice of that 500 million? No.
Like I said, if there's a system/scheme there to be abused, abuse it. Look after yourself, because those that govern you certainly wont!
Try telling that to all of the people who can't get a hospital bed or proper care for their sick relatives. The 'Sure as long as I'm alright Jack' attitude sums up a lot of what is wrong with society.
As for the RHI money not being taxpayers money, well I'm not about to start engaging in a basic economics lesson but that is just ridiculous logic.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 30, 2017, 04:49:07 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 30, 2017, 03:56:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 30, 2017, 03:46:23 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 30, 2017, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 30, 2017, 01:49:58 PM
Both sides lined their pockets on RHI.
One of the many reasons this place is fastly resembling a cesspit. Replace the violence with corruption at every corner and you get the idea
And fair play to them for lining their pockets. If someone gave me the same deal to heat my home, I'd have taken it. People are only looking after themselves. Nothing wrong with that. If there's a system there to be abused, abuse it.
And ultimately who will pay for this abuse?
If you're implying that it was taxpayers money that was spent on RHI, that's hardly accurate.
It was money. Not your tax money or my tax money, it was just money. If you work and pay tax, you have no say how much is taken from your wages. I'd imagine you're unhappy at the tax taken from you, but can you do anything about it? No. The mafia take their slice and there's feck all anyone can do about it.
So if there's 500 million spent on RHI, who gives a feck? It's not taxpayers money. It's just money. Not yours or mine. If RHI hadn't have happened, would the taxman have gave you and everyone else back a slice of that 500 million? No.
Like I said, if there's a system/scheme there to be abused, abuse it. Look after yourself, because those that govern you certainly wont!
Try telling that to all of the people who can't get a hospital bed or proper care for their sick relatives. The 'Sure as long as I'm alright Jack' attitude sums up a lot of what is wrong with society.
As for the RHI money not being taxpayers money, well I'm not about to start engaging in a basic economics lesson but that is just ridiculous logic.
It is taxpayers money but the bulk of the RHI scheme had it been implemented properly will be paid for by the treasury in UK. The amount paid from our block grant increased as they threw money at the pellet burners.
How long will it be before the English media catches on to this cost produced by Arlene & Co.
However, the recent changes made to the payments before the assembly crashed have moderated the use of the boilers by those who installed them as income generators according the NIAO. This greatly changes the overall cost of the scheme over the remainder of its 20 years. In particular, the scheme will collapse in the medium to longer term as a pellet burner owner was expected to replace the equipment at least once or twice during the 20 year period. There is not enough return in the system to allow this replacement to be an economic possibility.
It's not looking good that Deal will be reached in time for Mondays deadline. I couldn't agree more with SF, both British & Irish Governments need to be more involved like they were previously with GFA & St.Andrews. Hopefully our elected folks can agree on some principles over weekend because at this stage Direct Rule would be disastrous under Tories/DUP relationship.
Are you for real? The British and Irish Govts are not going to ever get involved hands on again,because a) they do not care and b) have much bigger fish to fry.
SF are going to hand us all over to direct rule by the Tories/DUP.What a sorry state Northern nationalism is in.
For once SF are being pretty reasonable in anything they are asking for and this exposes the DUP.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 02, 2017, 12:27:40 AM
For once SF are being pretty reasonable in anything they are asking for and this exposes the DUP.
True but the problem is the DUP will get away with it!
Quote from: Gaffer on July 02, 2017, 05:40:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 02, 2017, 12:27:40 AM
For once SF are being pretty reasonable in anything they are asking for and this exposes the DUP.
True but the problem is the DUP will get away with it!
They may "get away with it" in the short term.
But these are unstable times. The present path of Brexit might easily lead run into the ground. If it does not, then the Assembly could not have lasted anyhow. A "hard" or chaotic Brexit puts an end to the entire GFA, so there would be strong pressure for special status, DUP or no DUP. If Brexit runs into resistance and we end up with only a token Brexit then you could have an election. The DUP have drawn a lot of attention to themselves and will not be popular if the government in Westminister did change.
I'd say it is the unusual case of the unionists beating the Lambeg drum in the short term and having no long term plan at all.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-20000-raf-plane-fly-arlene-foster-dup-leader-home-belfast-deal-a7819116.html
Not only does she screw up on RHI, but she hitches a lift back to Belfast with the RAF, after her deal with the Tories.
It just gets worse.
The problem with many within the DUP is that they feel the need to dominate. It's in their genes. They have a clear superiority complex and will never accept nationalists as equals. The symbolism of marching through nationalist area's was always about exerting their authority on people who they felt were beneath them.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/why-an-irish-language-act-would-be-a-total-disaster-for-irish-35887118.html. Excellent article on why an Irish Language Act is not needed and in fact would probably be detrimental.
Now SF should get back into the Executive and save us all from even light touch Tory/DUP Direct Rule,and deal with the real problems.The real inequality in the North is between the haves (i.e. Catholic and Protestant) and have nots (also catholic/Protestant)
Tories paid £20,000 to fly Foster from London to Belfast. Now they announce that political donations are only being published from July onwards. The DUP have them by the balls.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 03, 2017, 06:37:52 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/why-an-irish-language-act-would-be-a-total-disaster-for-irish-35887118.html. Excellent article on why an Irish Language Act is not needed and in fact would probably be detrimental.
Now SF should get back into the Executive and save us all from even light touch Tory/DUP Direct Rule,and deal with the real problems.The real inequality in the North is between the haves (i.e. Catholic and Protestant) and have nots (also catholic/Protestant)
Of course there are have-nots of all religions and political backgrounds. But a nationalist is a second class citizen even if he owns two houses.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 03, 2017, 06:37:52 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/why-an-irish-language-act-would-be-a-total-disaster-for-irish-35887118.html. Excellent article on why an Irish Language Act is not needed and in fact would probably be detrimental.
Good article, I've no idea why Irish has become such a line in the sand issue, are they really going to let Stormont fall (genuinely fall, not fake fall for a few months) over this when there are genuinely serious bread & butter issues being ignored daily. Their other line in the sand - Arlene's departure - soon shifted.
As for Nationalists being second class citizens, if you think like that then it's your own fault as it's a state of mind.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 03, 2017, 06:37:52 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/why-an-irish-language-act-would-be-a-total-disaster-for-irish-35887118.html. Excellent article on why an Irish Language Act is not needed and in fact would probably be detrimental.
Now SF should get back into the Executive and save us all from even light touch Tory/DUP Direct Rule,and deal with the real problems.The real inequality in the North is between the haves (i.e. Catholic and Protestant) and have nots (also catholic/Protestant)
Only the Catholic haves (prob set setters, landlords, etc) are Catholics with a capital C
So arlene says one culture can not be allowed supremacy over another. How much funding does the orange order get again arlene...
I see in a city council meeting in belfast there was something about crumlin fc and some funding and that vile woman patterson declared they had links with the ira.
Bigotry has never really went away in this place in certain quarters - even with the gfa.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 03, 2017, 08:22:46 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on July 03, 2017, 06:37:52 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/why-an-irish-language-act-would-be-a-total-disaster-for-irish-35887118.html. Excellent article on why an Irish Language Act is not needed and in fact would probably be detrimental.
Good article, I've no idea why Irish has become such a line in the sand issue, are they really going to let Stormont fall (genuinely fall, not fake fall for a few months) over this when there are genuinely serious bread & butter issues being ignored daily. Their other line in the sand - Arlene's departure - soon shifted.
As for Nationalists being second class citizens, if you think like that then it's your own fault as it's a state of mind.
Its not just an Irish act though is it. Its the fact that previous agreements have literally been shat on. Now whether its the DUPs responsibility or the British governments doesnt matter the fact that neither seem interested in honouring a previous deal kind of means there really is no point agreeing to any new deal. I think a 3 year old would even grasp that fundamental point pity it took SF so long to wake up and only after grass roots gave them a ball chewing.
As for your second point this article is from 2 weeks ago NOT 20,30 or 40 yrs ago
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/catholics-waiting-six-months-longer-to-be-housed-than-protestants-in-northern-ireland-report-35844276.html
Also tonight they now don't have to release donor details from the past but do from now on. Something fishy there. Reckoning is part of the deal with tories.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 03, 2017, 09:17:21 PM
So arlene says one culture can not be allowed supremacy over another. How much funding does the orange order get again arlene...
Let's close down the 6 counties so, as supremacy is its entire purpose.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on July 03, 2017, 09:20:43 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 03, 2017, 08:22:46 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on July 03, 2017, 06:37:52 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/why-an-irish-language-act-would-be-a-total-disaster-for-irish-35887118.html. Excellent article on why an Irish Language Act is not needed and in fact would probably be detrimental.
Good article, I've no idea why Irish has become such a line in the sand issue, are they really going to let Stormont fall (genuinely fall, not fake fall for a few months) over this when there are genuinely serious bread & butter issues being ignored daily. Their other line in the sand - Arlene's departure - soon shifted.
As for Nationalists being second class citizens, if you think like that then it's your own fault as it's a state of mind.
Its not just an Irish act though is it. Its the fact that previous agreements have literally been shat on. Now whether its the DUPs responsibility or the British governments doesnt matter the fact that neither seem interested in honouring a previous deal kind of means there really is no point agreeing to any new deal. I think a 3 year old would even grasp that fundamental point pity it took SF so long to wake up and only after grass roots gave them a ball chewing.
As for your second point this article is from 2 weeks ago NOT 20,30 or 40 yrs ago
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/catholics-waiting-six-months-longer-to-be-housed-than-protestants-in-northern-ireland-report-35844276.html
A headline that people will jump to immediate conclusions on, when of course the devil is in the detail and there are multiple contributing factors, before I started reading I'd assumed the following point:
"our experience, members of the Catholic community tend to apply for social housing in high demand areas with low turnover and limited opportunities for further development,"
Quote from: bennydorano on July 03, 2017, 09:53:42 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on July 03, 2017, 09:20:43 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 03, 2017, 08:22:46 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on July 03, 2017, 06:37:52 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/why-an-irish-language-act-would-be-a-total-disaster-for-irish-35887118.html. Excellent article on why an Irish Language Act is not needed and in fact would probably be detrimental.
Good article, I've no idea why Irish has become such a line in the sand issue, are they really going to let Stormont fall (genuinely fall, not fake fall for a few months) over this when there are genuinely serious bread & butter issues being ignored daily. Their other line in the sand - Arlene's departure - soon shifted.
As for Nationalists being second class citizens, if you think like that then it's your own fault as it's a state of mind.
Its not just an Irish act though is it. Its the fact that previous agreements have literally been shat on. Now whether its the DUPs responsibility or the British governments doesnt matter the fact that neither seem interested in honouring a previous deal kind of means there really is no point agreeing to any new deal. I think a 3 year old would even grasp that fundamental point pity it took SF so long to wake up and only after grass roots gave them a ball chewing.
As for your second point this article is from 2 weeks ago NOT 20,30 or 40 yrs ago
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/catholics-waiting-six-months-longer-to-be-housed-than-protestants-in-northern-ireland-report-35844276.html
A headline that people will jump to immediate conclusions on, when of course the devil is in the detail and there are multiple contributing factors, before I started reading I'd assumed the following point:
"our experience, members of the Catholic community tend to apply for social housing in high demand areas with low turnover and limited opportunities for further development,"
Well demographics dictate that Catholics apply in high demand areas. Dont think the rehousing of large numbers of Catholics to replace elderly Protestants in certain areas would suit anyone especially not Dodds and McCausland who have been cleverly preventing such a scenario for years
So, themuns then pretty much?
Quote from: bennydorano on July 03, 2017, 10:13:03 PM
So, themuns then pretty much?
Pretty much. In North Belfast there is a signficant density difference in Catholic areas and Protestant ones. But any Catholic crossing the line will not be made welcome, not necessarily by their immediate neighbours but by the guardians of the loyal heritage.
I used to hear Unionists refer to Nationalists as MOPEs and be greatly offended. Not so much nowadays.
Matthew 7:5
You hypocrite! First remove the beam out of your own eye,
and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 03, 2017, 10:52:26 PM
I used to hear Unionists refer to Nationalists as MOPEs and be greatly offended. Not so much nowadays.
You should be offended, as this term implies that it is OK to oppress you as long as someone in some other place had it worse.
Where else do you see this, does Simon Harris say that the health service is worse in Haiti, so stop complaining?
QuoteMatthew 7:5
You hypocrite! First remove the beam out of your own eye,
and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye.
Always a good plan to make sure that you are not doing that of which you complain.
Unionists are completely without a sense of hypocrisy though, even for politicans.
(http://i64.tinypic.com/zeom.png)
Unionist hypocrisy is a given. SF are more your garden variety Charlatan.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 03, 2017, 09:53:42 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on July 03, 2017, 09:20:43 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 03, 2017, 08:22:46 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on July 03, 2017, 06:37:52 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/why-an-irish-language-act-would-be-a-total-disaster-for-irish-35887118.html. Excellent article on why an Irish Language Act is not needed and in fact would probably be detrimental.
Good article, I've no idea why Irish has become such a line in the sand issue, are they really going to let Stormont fall (genuinely fall, not fake fall for a few months) over this when there are genuinely serious bread & butter issues being ignored daily. Their other line in the sand - Arlene's departure - soon shifted.
As for Nationalists being second class citizens, if you think like that then it's your own fault as it's a state of mind.
Its not just an Irish act though is it. Its the fact that previous agreements have literally been shat on. Now whether its the DUPs responsibility or the British governments doesnt matter the fact that neither seem interested in honouring a previous deal kind of means there really is no point agreeing to any new deal. I think a 3 year old would even grasp that fundamental point pity it took SF so long to wake up and only after grass roots gave them a ball chewing.
As for your second point this article is from 2 weeks ago NOT 20,30 or 40 yrs ago
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/catholics-waiting-six-months-longer-to-be-housed-than-protestants-in-northern-ireland-report-35844276.html
A headline that people will jump to immediate conclusions on, when of course the devil is in the detail and there are multiple contributing factors, before I started reading I'd assumed the following point:
"our experience, members of the Catholic community tend to apply for social housing in high demand areas with low turnover and limited opportunities for further development,"
High demand because they can't move elsewhere for fair of intimidation.
A lot of Stoops on here sniping at SF because heir own party make the Democrats in the US look like a well honed election winning machine. Nationalist voters are sick of the DUP's foot dragging on equality and parity of esteem. It is about a shared space where all can feel at home. The Unionists are so stupid that they can't see that this is the only hope they have of securing the union. I here others bleating on about services, these will happen with or with our Stormont. As for the DUP/Cons, DUP have them by the balls so nothing SF do at the assembly will have any influence. The DUP and Unionists generally are the biggest of brass necks hypocrites.
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 04, 2017, 09:04:29 AM
A lot of Stoops on here sniping at SF because heir own party make the Democrats in the US look like a well honed election winning machine. Nationalist voters are sick of the DUP's foot dragging on equality and parity of esteem. It is about a shared space where all can feel at home. The Unionists are so stupid that they can't see that this is the only hope they have of securing the union. I here others bleating on about services, these will happen with or with our Stormont. As for the DUP/Cons, DUP have them by the balls so nothing SF do at the assembly will have any influence. The DUP and Unionists generally are the biggest of brass necks hypocrites.
Its not just stoops I think most nationalists think SF were asleep at the wheel for years and it needed RHI and Liofa to anger the nationalist community enough to tell SF to wake up. The DUP have a brass neck because we let them. Until last March nationalists have not been bothering to vote and even in March we only caught up with Unionism some reporters would have you believe that nationalist turnout was way higher than unionists it wasnt they were about level. It also doesnt help that poll after poll suggests nationalists are happy with the status quo. That just tells the DUP to keep doing what they are doing. Nationalists deserve the situation they find themselves in and only have themselves to blame for being dumb. Oh good another month of orange fest to look forward to how ironic that it may require the English medias attention to tone things down a bit.
Quote from: AQMP on July 04, 2017, 10:06:41 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 03, 2017, 09:17:21 PM
So arlene says one culture can not be allowed supremacy over another. How much funding does the orange order get again arlene...
I see in a city council meeting in belfast there was something about crumlin fc and some funding and that vile woman patterson declared they had links with the ira.
Bigotry has never really went away in this place in certain quarters - even with the gfa.
That's an absolute cracker from Arlene. Surely the whole raison d'etre of unionism is cultural supremacy over themmuns??
She will never learn and her arrogance has no limits. The Orange Order, marching, flag waving is all about dominance and supremacy.
What is the final sticking points that is delaying every thing?
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on July 04, 2017, 09:41:02 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on July 04, 2017, 09:04:29 AM
A lot of Stoops on here sniping at SF because heir own party make the Democrats in the US look like a well honed election winning machine. Nationalist voters are sick of the DUP's foot dragging on equality and parity of esteem. It is about a shared space where all can feel at home. The Unionists are so stupid that they can't see that this is the only hope they have of securing the union. I here others bleating on about services, these will happen with or with our Stormont. As for the DUP/Cons, DUP have them by the balls so nothing SF do at the assembly will have any influence. The DUP and Unionists generally are the biggest of brass necks hypocrites.
Its not just stoops I think most nationalists think SF were asleep at the wheel for years and it needed RHI and Liofa to anger the nationalist community enough to tell SF to wake up. The DUP have a brass neck because we let them. Until last March nationalists have not been bothering to vote and even in March we only caught up with Unionism some reporters would have you believe that nationalist turnout was way higher than unionists it wasnt they were about level. It also doesnt help that poll after poll suggests nationalists are happy with the status quo. That just tells the DUP to keep doing what they are doing. Nationalists deserve the situation they find themselves in and only have themselves to blame for being dumb. Oh good another month of orange fest to look forward to how ironic that it may require the English medias attention to tone things down a bit.
Wouldn't argue with most of that.
Quote from: yellowcard on July 04, 2017, 10:58:05 AM
Quote from: AQMP on July 04, 2017, 10:06:41 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 03, 2017, 09:17:21 PM
So arlene says one culture can not be allowed supremacy over another. How much funding does the orange order get again arlene...
I see in a city council meeting in belfast there was something about crumlin fc and some funding and that vile woman patterson declared they had links with the ira.
Bigotry has never really went away in this place in certain quarters - even with the gfa.
That's an absolute cracker from Arlene. Surely the whole raison d'etre of unionism is cultural supremacy over themmuns??
She will never learn and her arrogance has no limits. The Orange Order, marching, flag waving is all about dominance and supremacy.
A situation that won't be helped any by ferrying the bitch about in her own RAF plane. Tbf fair to her, though, she's the only person to have been affected by the Troubles if you believe the west Brit Press...that c**k Harris was at it again on Sunday about her spotting a vase of sunflowers in the hallway at No.10 and how it was the favourite flower of her Da, who was shot at by those nasty fenians in Fermanagh ::)
Quote from: AQMP on July 04, 2017, 12:53:37 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 04, 2017, 12:06:23 PM
What is the final sticking points that is delaying every thing?
SF aware that most of their voters think the Assembly is a busted flush.
Or maybe they realise that winning seats is no good when the Dup can walk into Number 10 and start calling the shots. No pun intended
I am seriously fed up with it all now.We need politics and politicians to provide basic day to day efficient governance on things that matter,like Health,Education etc,not hoodwink the public on side issues like identity,language,inane parades and stupid bonfires,none of which ever invade my thoughts.
If everyone stopped getting paid until a solution was found how long do you think it would take to get it sorted?
I think where there is an impasse and both tribes cannot agree it should be referred to the London and Dublin govts to make the final decision.Wont please everyone,but it would motivate the parties to reach agreement.
What is SF playing at? Like they are hardly under threat of losing votes to the SDLP,if they don't deliver,and they will never be in government in the South,so no need for optics.
It beggars belief that they are taking the summer break when they've done f**k all this past ages
https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0704/887552-stormont/
''Next week will also witness the "Twelfth of July" - the key fixture in the Protestant loyal order marching season.
Negotiations were always unlikely to succeed if they stretched into mid-July, when they would be framed against the backdrop of the heightened community tensions that traditionally surround the Orange Order commemorations.''
From that article, and as is a universal fact - you can't talk to unionists round the 12th.
In 20 years we'll look back gobsmacked that they got away with this shite for so long.
Whether or not there is an assembly will not impact on health, education etc. In fact direct rule ministers would have the freedom to make the hard decisions we will not allow or politicians to make regarding the provision of these services. Those people bleating about the return to Stormont (or mount as some say) need to consider the last 10 years when a McGuinness led SF appeased the DUP at every turn only to have their nose rubbed in it. Where was the reciprication for all that out reach? The denouncing of the dissidents as traitors etc... SF have no choice if they want to retain their vote. The DUP don't or won't get it. McCausland bleating about GA wanting to change NI, thats exactly the f**king point it needs to change. Tots like Paul Frew denying our right to be Irish. I said before this is exactly how to ensure the Union disappears. Any hope of securing it long term will founder on the denial of equality.
Will this week see the end of Stormont mark 3 2007 -2016??
Will it make any difference?
Does anyone other than the MLAs and hangers on really care?
Quote from: Rossfan on September 05, 2017, 11:08:31 AM
Will this week see the end of Stormont mark 3 2007 -2016??
Will it make any difference?
Does anyone other than the MLAs and hangers on really care?
Seems to be following the Adams route. There is no way that direct rule would happen if McGuinness was still there.
SF obviously doesn't want to be seen to implementing Tory Cuts at Stormont.This presumably is to enhance its performance in the South,which can only be done by appealing to the middle classes thus shedding all pretence of socialism and radicalism.Also when Gerry steps down SF will split inevitably into Southern and Northern factions.
In any event none of the parties at Stormont are capable of delivering anything resembling competent government in any event,so no big loss
I think Stormont is a dead duck in the short term and not many people are overly bothered.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 05, 2017, 11:46:13 AM
SF obviously doesn't want to be seen to implementing Tory Cuts at Stormont.This presumably is to enhance its performance in the South,which can only be done by appealing to the middle classes thus shedding all pretence of socialism and radicalism.Also when Gerry steps down SF will split inevitably into Southern and Northern factions.
This post is a bit confused. Cutting NI expenditure will give the wrong message from SF's perspective to their present 26 county "somebody else should pay" voters. If NI was more responsibly managed then it might improve SF in the eyes of regular voters in the 26 counties.
QuoteIn any event none of the parties at Stormont are capable of delivering anything resembling competent government in any event
Local incompetents are less dangerous than London incompetents.
How is it confusing? Do SF not wholeheartedly oppose all cuts in the Dail? Are financial cutbacks a vote winner anywhere?
Also on a purely governmental basis,Direct Rule would be at least be delivered by real politicians with some degree of experience of real government.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 05, 2017, 01:10:55 PM
How is it confusing? Do SF not wholeheartedly oppose all cuts in the Dail? Are financial cutbacks a vote winner anywhere?
Most responsible people know that you have to pay for things and that you cannot have an excessive amount of one person paying for another.
The fiscal state of NI is now the major barrier to Irish unity, despite attempts by some to make up imaginery cultural differences and the like. SF haven't the least idea of how to address this issue. There is a Tyrone man, John the Optimist, with some good posts on Slugger re this.
I know things have to be paid for,but no political party ever won an election by putting spending cuts in their manifesto
Quote from: T Fearon on September 05, 2017, 02:31:45 PM
I know things have to be paid for,but no political party ever won an election by putting spending cuts in their manifesto
The Tories just did
How much of this recent posturing over Stormont is actually related to the impending Welfare cuts coming this way from the UK government.
The parties in power whenever they land might not be too popular for a while. ;)
Almost everything is posturing. In the end they will save their own skins and restore the Assembly.
I see May is going to remove the 1% cap on public service pay and so is Sturgeon. Good to see. Assuming nothing will happen here until the useless bastids return to work.
Quote from: lurganblue on September 06, 2017, 12:59:33 PM
I see May is going to remove the 1% cap on public service pay and so is Sturgeon. Good to see. Assuming nothing will happen here until the useless bastids return to work.
She had to , the devaluation of Sterling will ramp up inflation.
Meanwhile, Danny is down at the brew
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/thats-politics-exgovernment-minister-danny-kennedy-signs-on-the-dole-36105444.html