gaaboard.com

CAN'T WAIT THE COUNTDOWN IS ON 21 DAYS TO GO ;D

Would have loved to beat United in the final - it'll have to be Milan now. Shit happens

AC looked the part tonight but after two years ago I hold no fear!!! ;) Got my ticket changed aswell so I will be celebrating it in Miami!! ;D

Sure we'll turn up anyway.

All the best to Milan in the final.

Stand aside pygmies, the big beasts of European football are on collision course!

there is no way liverpool will give milan that much time and space.  have no fear of them at all.   would have been nice utd and liverpool in final all the same.

Between them Liverpool and Milan have 11 European Cup/Champions League wins, the biggest ever combined total for a pair of finalists.

Best of luck to Liverpool in the final.

should be some night..

At least it is two traditional European powerhouses in the final instead of United v Chelsea......

Bow wow sid.

Good luck to Liverpool in the final. Sure i've already booked Thursday the 24th off so i'll go to the pub with my poolite brother and have a session anyway.

Mascherano is going to have his work cut out with kaka. But if anyone is up to the task its him. He's been immense recently. He needs to do a similar job to what hamann did that second half in istanbul.

On paper we are much better than 2 years ago, while Milan you could argue aren't. We have brought in Reina, Agger, Mascherano, Crouch, Kuyt and Pennant (who in recent weeks has been class). Out Djimi ::), Smicer (although I'll forgive these 2 for there performances on that night), Baros and Cisse. While Milan have no major 'ins' except mabe Oddo and that left back. While they have got rid of Crespo, Sheva and Stam. But I suppose in football ye never know ???

Wonder what the odds are on Kewell making is comeback in the final?

Quote from: gawa316 on May 03, 2007, 08:57:13 AM

Wonder what the odds are on Kewell making his comeback in the final?
[/quote/]

A cold shiver went down my spine when i read that.......

The good thing about this final will be that it will prove for once and for all how fookin lucky Liverpool were 2 years ago. I fancy 3 0 at half time and that it stays 3 0 this time.  No drink allowed at half time in the Milan dressing room either, because I know for a fact they uncorked a couple of bottles in the dressing rooms 2 years ago and they therefore deserved to get beat then, I would like to think they will be more professional now. Anyway Liverpool should stop crowing about history as they are in for one hell of a tanking in 3 weeks and everything they say now will come back at them.  Any team that cant defeat Charlton shouldnt deserve to be in the champions league.     

Quote from: realredhandfan on May 03, 2007, 09:43:20 AM
The good thing about this final will be that it will prove for once and for all how fookin lucky Liverpool were 2 years ago. I fancy 3 0 at half time and that it stays 3 0 this time.  No drink allowed at half time in the Milan dressing room either, because I know for a fact they uncorked a couple of bottles in the dressing rooms 2 years ago and they therefore deserved to get beat then, I would like to think they will be more professional now. Anyway Liverpool should stop crowing about history as they are in for one hell of a tanking in 3 weeks and everything they say now will come back at them.  Any team that cant defeat Charlton shouldnt deserve to be in the champions league.     

Is this another case of premature ejaculation on a message board?

Anybody going to the match?  Dont know if I can go yet or not?

As im in a good mood (contimplating another championship) Id like to offer the following advice, based on having been to Athens on a few Euro aways and having worked there for a while

If possible try and get digs in Kolonaki, this hotel is good www.sglycabettus.gr, there are a few others near by as well.

This is a nice part of Athens, good bars etc and a fantastic kebab place too.
The ground itself is miles away so leave lots of time to get there, a Taxi will only get you part way as the traffic is a disaster. Watch out for Plaka, its a tourists mecca, and rip off central, if you go to the ruins, walk back to plaka and get a taxi from there.
Local beer is Mythos, not bad, but most bars serve amstel as well which is quality.

If your in Kolonaki, say hello to blind dog for me, if you meet him you will no who im talking about.

Its brilliant to have somebody to support in the Final, due to the fact that its not between two sets of Shitebags from NW England.

I hope Milan hammer the scousers.Lets face it, if they play with the same power and commitment (as epitomised by Gattuso last night) they will, (Man Ure are a better team that Liverpool after all) and with the scent of revenge in their nostrils the scousers could be in for the mother of all tankings. Hope Maldini makes it as well, as it surely must be his last. He is up there with Puskas, Di Stefano, as one of the true European legends

PS With AC Milan easily accounting for Man Ure (unlike the extra time scenario they needed to beat Celtic), and Celtic effectively winning the two legged affair with Man Ure in the qualifiers, does that make Celtic a better team than Man Ure.

link works for me,

basically anywhere on the Kolonaki side of the hill gives easy waling distance to anything in athens , you could also look at stuff in and around plaka

http://www.sglycabettus.gr (http://www.sglycabettus.gr)

if iwas you id take the first available bed you get, you could also consider a room out near the ground as will make it a lot easier to get there on match day. The traffic is a mare, and Public Transport was basic when I was there

Ive used this site for many of my Euro Awaya, and usually ended up with great digs at a low price
http://www.cheaphotels.co.uk (http://www.cheaphotels.co.uk)

Quote from: T Fearon on May 03, 2007, 12:20:25 PM
the scousers could be in for the mother of all tankings.

Ya could easily be 2 or 3 nil by before half time

Quote from: Mayo4Sam on May 03, 2007, 12:47:45 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on May 03, 2007, 12:20:25 PM
the scousers could be in for the mother of all tankings.

Ya could easily be 2 or 3 nil by before half time

That would be tough alright. Hard to see us coming back from 2 or 3 down.

;D

Not surprised.

Ah the memories of Athens,

heres an alternative travel report from one of our trips.

try that cheap hotels site, Omonina is an alright place too, right near the metro to the ground


http://www.m-u-f-c.co.uk/matches/matchreport.php?reportid=14 (http://www.m-u-f-c.co.uk/matches/matchreport.php?reportid=14)

Merry Monk's Panathinaikos Away Report
"They tried to break us, looks like they'll try ag
by Merry Monk

Tuesday 6th March 2001

And so it came to pass that at daft o'clock one cold pre-Ides morning, Vas, Paz, Redbyte, MGA, Red Avenger and the Merriest of Monks congregated in the dark recesses of some coffee bar or other in Manchester Airport's hastily refurbished Terminal 3. The trip had been conceived by Redbyte within minutes of the cup draw revelation that Manchester's best-supported team would be taking the field alongside Athens' second-best supported team. Delivered in his now-familiar celtic verbal swagger, it didn't take long for the residual pentet to capitulate to this mental no-brainer, our only input being the provision of 16 little numbers and an expiry date. As if the lure of three days in a sure-to-be-sweltering Athens wasn't enough, we had the additional incentive of spending two nights in the 5 Star St. George Lycabettus hotel, "nestling in the bosom of one of Athens' most picturesque hills...." Oh, and there was a roof-top swimming pool and bar

Following a brief plane-change at Gatwick we headed out on an aged 737-300 bound for Athens. The flight appeared to be exclusively United, save for quite possibly the most unattractive cabin crew that the author has ever had the misfortune to receive three cans of Holsten Pils and one mini-bottle of Claret from. Furthermore, MGA unpleasantly discovered that those five inch wide middle-seats-of-three which people always thought were just to put bags and newspapers on are in fact meant to have arses parked on them

Early afternoon saw our arrival Athens airport (sorry, no idea of the name – probably Spiropaxos Popodopolis International or something), half expecting to see a comical "Welcome to Hellas" banner. After surprisingly collecting our full quota of luggage we took a couple of rank taxis from the taxi rank outside. Twenty minutes and thirty four fingernails later we gazed upon the luxurious splendour which was to be our home for the next two days or so.....or rather, we tried to gaze, but the dust being generated by the workmen cutting paving stones barely allowed us to make out the five stars adorning the doorway (have I mentioned the five stars before ?)

Even before checking in, I had to ask the question about the roof-top pool. "Is it open ?" I enquired. The receptionist started "Not yet, but it will be open in......." and then paused, looked at her watch, looked at the clock on the wall and looked back at her watch again. I must admit, none of us expected her to say "June"

After a hurried pit-stop, and with our watches showing 4:30 (except RA's whose stubbornly was still displaying GMT) we took the steps down towards Kolonaki square, dressed simply in shirts. After all, this was Greece, and the sun was out. Between the hotel and the bars of the square lies a fashion street. You know the sort - shops with two pairs of shoes on a white plinth in the window which inexplicably need fourteen assistants to sell them. Just down this street was a small bar which Redbyte claimed did the cheapest beer and tastiest souvakis in the whole of Greece. Admittedly both were pretty good. Andy Williams couldn't have crooned it better as we sat there, next to a high fashion Diesel store, and watched the girls go by

It was during the brief walk from hotel to bar that we encountered the first of many dogs. The grammatical phraseology of my observation that Athens appeared to be overrun with "wild domesticated dogs" was eagerly corrected by Paz, who pointed out that such beings are usually called "strays". One such "Wild Dog" was swiftly christened "Blind Dog", on account that he wobbled around and walked into tables and walls. Blind Dog had made the patch outside the Diesel fashion emporium his own, and, despite being unable to see them, took great delight in warding off vagrants and hawkers with an alarming tenacity. One particular vendor, whose grubby outstretched cupped hand was to become a familiar sight over the next few days, was a dirty old crone whose goods for sale consisted solely of blue biros and packet tissues. Despite the most intense cerebral efforts, none of us could imagine the type of lorry which these had fallen off

Since our last proper meal had been in Swiss airspace some hours ago, viz. the second of two identical BA in-flight breakfasts, we felt an urge to seek out a suitable culinary establishment. By this stage, the decision to wear only shirts was being regretted by the majority of the group as the temperature had plummeted to something reminiscent of Captain Oates' honourable suicide. Redbyte assured us that Plaka was the place to go, so off we went. Four mules, three sherpas and six re-soles later we took our seats outside a traditional Greek taverna. An aged Roberto Baggio was directing passers-by to come and sample his fayre, and who were we to refuse such a tempting offer ? The meal was certainly edible, although the mixed seafood platter we had for starters looked a bit as though we were second to it. Vas decided that octopus was his main course choice, but the requisite mastication suggested that Wrigleys had extended their sponsorship to squid-life. Roberto's ever-present sidekick was one of those two guys out of Los Lobos, and he, like us, watched in awe and admiration as the Divine Ponytail attempted to trap and verbally manhandle groups of tourists into his restaurant. Highlights of this spectacle were the four young Japanese who made a last minute dash for freedom, and the party of thirty Bulgarians who collectively dipped their shoulders and rounded a stranded and desolate Italian has-been. After a swift bottle of Mythos (not the world's best beer, but quite pretty labels) in a small tourist-ridden square, we gratefully flagged down two taxis and set course back for Kolonaki

Kolonaki square was now far more lively than when we had left it, and we met up with LOS, Lowey and Jules-too. Chat was almost exclusively football-based as we began to remember there was a game the next day. A couple of hours later we all wandered back up to the glamour of Lycabettus, via a kiosk where we stocked up on cans of cheap Amstel and Heineken. Earlier in the day we had marvelled at the view afforded by our hotel's sixth floor Grand Balcony, and now felt that a relaxing hour or two was in order. Cradled in the lights of the chapel of St. George which proudly mounts Lycabettus hill, and sat facing the dominating vista of an artificially-illuminated Parthenon, one would be hard pushed to conjure up a more endearing image


"Pre-can", it's all smiles


Well, almost all smiles

However, the serenity of "red hot soccer chat" was rudely interrupted by two factors. One, outside our control, was the Siberian weather conditions. The other was the surprising decision by one of the more educated members of the group to lob his can of beer from the roof. A mental trip into the remnants of O-level Physics reminded me that v2 = u2 + 2as. Entering the values for u, a and s, one could crudely calculate that the rogue aluminium cylinder - had it survived the burn up on re-entry - would have had a terminal velocity of over 400 mph. It's no coincidence that the can-chucking perpetrator's identity is revealed quite clearly in this particular equation

Bed beckoned – the end of the first day

(Apparently LOS, Lowey and Jules-too spent an eternity trying to get out of the hotel, briefly circumnavigating the basement kitchens before finally feeling the welcoming dusty paving stones of the hotel forecourt)

Wednesday 7th March 2001

Despite the entire workforce of Lord Alfred McAlpine having been seconded to drill, bang and clatter outside our bedroom windows, I don't think that any of us actually experienced anything before midday, with Paz and Redbyte being the laziest of lazy bastards. MGA, RA, Vas and MM decided that an ascension of Lycabettus Hill would blow the cobwebs away. After a failed attempt to find the funicular at the first time of asking, Vas and MM elected to take the scenic winding path, whilst RA and MGA went off in search of the railway. After five minutes of lung-bottoming climbing, Bonnington and Hillary were stopped in their tracks by the most bizarre of sights. Around one hundred caterpillars were wandering nose-to-tail across one of the clay steps. A closer examination showed that there were in fact a few hundred more ascending in similar fashion through the undergrowth to join their compatriots. However, unfolding before our very eyes, disaster soon befell the leading insect when he tumbled over a particularly nonnegotiable twig and fell away and back towards his faithful followers. After an eternity of nose waving, the second caterpillar found Number One and the trail was reformed. However, at some loss, as the leader had unwittingly jibbed in at about position 20. So, we had caterpillars number 21 and above stood still wondering what the hold up was, and the first 20 caterpillars wandering aimlessly in an eternal loop. It would be a brave gambling man to suggest that they aren't still circling there to this very day


All going so well

Getting tricky


We reached the summit at the same time as the Railway Children and despite the magnificent view over a desperately sprawling capital, the gale force winds and biting cold dictated that we should hurriedly take the next available descending train. Redbyte and Paz had finally bothered to get up and were sat in the hotel reception with Badger and The Lawman. Collectively we ambled down to Kolonaki, met up with Ige, and spent the next couple of hours forcing down Mythos and eating unintentionally-chilled meatballs. At this time we were blessed with a further visit from the "tissue and biro" hag, this time with only tissues on vend. Clearly some unpublicised Greek tragedy had forced some pen panic-buying


The "Diesel" bar

Anyway, it was at this stage (approximately 2:30 pm Jim-time) that we made the decision to add a little culture to the proceedings. The Lawman must be congratulated by correctly surmising that ".....it would be rude to come to Athens and not see the Acropolis", so Paz, RB, Vas, MGA, Lawman and MM dived in a couple of joes and headed for the Acropolis. As is now customary, our slight climb through the Acropolean gardens up to the Parthenon was accompanied by a myriadical cacophony of wild domesticated canines. However culturally-unaware a person may be, it would be impossible for anyone to be anything less than amazed and awestruck by the Parthenon



Amazingly, we all resisted the "losing your marbles" jokes

Considering it was built nearly 2500 years ago it's lasted pretty well, despite the "removal" of the Elgin marbles at the turn of the last-but-one century. Anyroad, by this time, the afternoon's beer had taken its toll on all our bladders so we optimistically followed a series of "WC" signs which had been crudely sellotaped to trees. Ten minutes later it was clear that this was some hilarious Greek hoax, so we took to the undergrowth. I'm sure Zeus must have seen the funny side of us pissing on his roses


Hunting the Zeus Memorial Conveniences

Leaving the Acropolis we were faced with a choice of two waiting taxis. The first driver asked us where we were going. After being told "Kolonaki" he boldly quoted 3000 drachma (about £6). We politely told him that this was unacceptably high. Witnessing this, the second driver wandered over and entered the fray, demonstrating a peculiar bargaining technique, insofar as he tendered 2000 more than the first bloke. We walked. And how ! Accompanied for a good 30 minutes by two more Wild Dogs we negotiated our way through a slightly dodgy looking part of town. One Wild Dog soon gave up, but his colleague walked with us all the way, frequently displaying his hardness by head-butting passing cars, before waving us goodbye at his territory boundary. Unable to walk another yard, we took a couple of fairly unroadworthy taxis back to Kolonaki. Impressively, Badger was still in the same bar and we mooched in. After ten minutes, it is to Paz' eternal credit that he pointed out a young lady sat in the middle of the bar with her Nick Hornby lookalike boyfriend. This individual possessed the most magnificent pair of breasts which this author has ever seen. It didn't take long for the twenty or so Reds in the bar to make blatantly unnecessary journeys to all corners of the bar in order to afford themselves a clearer view of their visual prey. Everyone's joy was massively evident when she made the trip through the throng to the downstairs conveniences, and when she left the bar with Nick a few minutes later the cheers confirmed that things had indeed reached Fever Pitch

Time was now pressing, so three taxis worth of us headed back up to the hotel, ordered the necessary transport, imbibed quite possibly the most expensive beer this side of the Copenhagen Hilton and took to the road. It should be noted for the record that up until lunchtime that day, a number of our party were in fact unaware that the game was to be played at the Olympic Stadium rather than Panathinaikos' own ground (which, as it happens, was only a stroll from our lodgings). I will hold my head up and admit to being one of the venue-change information pygmies....I'll leave the others' consciences to do the right thing by them. The ground was about seven miles to the north east of the city centre, and traffic was ludicrous. The police at the ground were no help at all in helping us locate our turnstiles (in fact, none of the exterior turnstiles were even graced by numbers). Meeting up with Lowey, LOS and JP we "hip-dip-dog-shit" picked an entrance and made our way up to the second tier. The first thing that struck us was the proliferation of green Panathinaikos hats amongst United. Why ? I mean, really, why ? Oh, and the scarves too

Estimates put the figure at around 1700 United, of whom just 12 were singing and the vast majority of the remainder were wearing green head and neck gear. Despite the development of arctic climactic conditions which would have surely troubled Roald Amunsden, I still saw no point in green bobble hats. We 12 disciples took to the upper reaches of the tier and tried in vain to get people sing, shout, chant and generally get behind the team, but in fairness, the attitude and input of the majority of "fans" was shameful


They're singing, so why can't we ?

That said, the game was tedium personified, the away team being unable to string three passes together. Panathinaikos richly deserved their goal, and were it not for our "Numéro Un" it could easily have been five or six. Our insistence to play till the end certainly works well in Europe, and when Uggers' speculative cross-cum-shot was turned in by Scholes it was clear that Zeus was indeed smiling on us

We had been told we were being held in the ground for 15 minutes post-match, but by my watch it was nearer 50 by the time the gates were opened – of course, by RA's watch, it was only just kick-off. During the wait, a few more of the "fans" had decided that they would finally get behind the team. In fact, by my reckoning, they were around 10 miles behind the team which was probably boarding a Manchester-bound charter. We were marched to the nearest (!) metro station and prodded onto a already heaving carriage. Ten or so stops later we were dumped at Omonoia which is where Lowey, Lawman and few others were staying. By this stage, it was about one a.m. and the night was obviously still young. A rusty 1979 yellow Corolla was our means to get back to Kolonaki and we settled in the nearby 24 hour bar. By this stage, hypothermia was rife amongst the group but solace was found 'neath one of those huge gas heater tower things. A round of Mythos was eagerly taken as RA, MGA, Vas, Paz, Lawman, RA and MM began to feel like that kid off the Ready Brek adverts, you know the one with that Sellafield-warm glow around him. It is to Lawman's acclaim that his flight was only a handful of hours away, yet he felt that staying up and swallowing turbid beer was preferable to having twenty minutes sleep back at Omonoia. Just when we thought that things couldn't get any better, we had a visitor. Blind Dog clearly wanted to say goodbye, had wandered down the street and was hanging around, looking for vagabonds to chew. We keenly invited him to share our peanuts, whilst Vas demonstrated a highly controversial way of patting a dog's head, viz. high intensity slapping with an outstretched hand. In the same way that one of David Bowie's eyes changed colour when he was hit on the head by a teacher, it would be easy to imagine the incarcerated hound enjoying a brief regaining of sight by the cranial blows which rained down upon his filthy head. It was only right that we should strengthen our reminiscences of such a comical but tatty creature by Polaroid means, so whilst the heir to the Barbara Woodhouse crown placed a pair of shades over the bemused creature's eyes, we all snapped frenetically like Japanese tourists. Given Blind Dog's eternal oblivion to all this, and Vas' beaming face, one couldn't help expecting a modern-day version of the Peters' and Lee classic "Welcome Home" to ring out


"Come on in, and close the door"

At around 4 a.m., food was in order. Our favourite souvaki establishment was closer to opening time than it was to closing time so we went to the local Everest all-night eatery. Whilst munching on our sausage and beef burger delights, our eyes were drawn to a dishevelled being wandering around. It was a 50 or so years old long-haired tr**p, well-tanned it has to be said, wearing a rammy shawl and very little else. Even though we all collectively agreed that to laugh at such a pitiful form would be sinful, a trip to the confessional would be a small price to pay. Lawman came back to the St.George and sat up watching MTV with MGA and myself for a bit before deciding that he better get back to his hotel and pack before the flight left without him

The sandman took us

Thursday 8th March 2001

Later that morning Vas and myself had a stroll down to the old Olympic stadium, this being the final piece in the cultural jigsaw which we had undertaken, on the way passing a couple of those Ministry of Silly Walk soldiers who are always seen falling over on You've Been Framed during a particularly tricky swivel. The stadium is, as one would expect, highly impressive. We guessed that it would hold somewhere between 25 and 30 000, although given the steepness of terracing in the upper echelons, even the most dedicated of TTCs would be firmly ensconced onto their marble seats. The track was a funny shape too, longer and narrower than is now conventional, although this didn't seem to bother a couple of gimmers who spent half an hour or so just walking lap after lap. And they kept to their lanes too (British 4 x 100m team take note)


"Oh I say, nice discus Odysseus"

Back at the Diesel bar, MGA, Paz, Redbye and RA were demolishing souvakis, toasted sandwiches and sausages so we introduced our own boccal ball-wreckers into the equation. Oh, and apparently Des Lynam had walked passed a couple of times.......


Elegance, sheer elegance

Blind Dog was clearly still recovering from a headache as he appeared to not even see us. We'd been chucked. Took the now-biblical steps back to the hotel, checked out, got in a couple of quite acceptable taxis for a change and made our way to the airport. We'd allowed ourselves a good 40 minutes to make a 20 minute journey, and despite our driver breaking each and every law of the admittedly-thrifty Greek Highway Code, we still had little time to relax in the departures lounge. Security appeared fairly mediocre as I beeped my way through the electronic doorframe. When asked if I had anything metal on me, I simply showed him my Seiko. He waved me through with no corpal prodding, seemingly convinced that I had nothing else metallic concealed on my person. Very trusting these Greeks ! Surely it's just coincidence that Pan Am 103 started its journey here?

Frugally uneventful journey back to Manchester. Steve Coppell sat in front of us on the flight to Gatwick, and BBC reporter Tim Sebastian sat in front of MGA on the shuttle. MGA took offence to the journalist's reclined seat, and gave a few gentle nudges. Redbyte, who by this stage was actually turning into a gin and tonic, gave the interviewer's chair-back a real thump, almost sending the ignorant BBC bastard into the cockpit. To give him his due, being shot at in Freetown and almost being held hostage by Mugabe's henchmen in Harare had given Sebastian the patience of a saint, and no retaliatory comments were forthcoming. Back at Manchester, RA discovered the financial perils of leaving your car for three days in the walkable short-stay car park rather than in its bus-ride-away bigger brother

And so ended a trip eastwards, to a land where ancient gods smiled on foreigners and where foreigners urinated on ancient gods, where an MOT is a laughable concept and car tax is the name of a cheap local brandy, where cataract-ridden hounds and naked tramps rule the streets, where pre-packed tissues are the staple currency, where the pollution makes Middlesbrough resemble a sanatorium, where insects are anything but individuals and where girls are a cup size or two bigger

"Wild dogs never lose it
Wild dogs never chose this way
Wild dogs never close your eyes
And wild dogs always shine"
© MM 11th March 2001 

Quote from: realredhandfan on May 03, 2007, 09:43:20 AM
The good thing about this final will be that it will prove for once and for all how fookin lucky Liverpool were 2 years ago. I fancy 3 0 at half time and that it stays 3 0 this time.  No drink allowed at half time in the Milan dressing room either, because I know for a fact they uncorked a couple of bottles in the dressing rooms 2 years ago and they therefore deserved to get beat then, I would like to think they will be more professional now. Anyway Liverpool should stop crowing about history as they are in for one hell of a tanking in 3 weeks and everything they say now will come back at them.  Any team that cant defeat Charlton shouldnt deserve to be in the champions league.     

So im sure you'll agree the same can be said about a team that can't beat Middlesborough/West Ham??

Also Liverpool have played Charlton only once this year and Liverpool beat them 3-0 so i don't know where you get that statistic from ::)

Laois Lad, you highlighted my last statement -  do you believe any team that cant defeat  Charlton should be in the champions league?  I want you to give me your immediate answer to that question - the statemnt stands alone - it has f**k all to do with Liverpool.  Do you believe any team that cant defeat  Charlton should be in the champions league? If so the future of the champions league is fucked and Liverpool are welcome to it, glorified intertoto cup it has become.

Quote from: realredhandfan on May 03, 2007, 02:38:07 PM
Laois Lad, you highlighted my last statement -  do you believe any team that cant defeat  Charlton should be in the champions league?  I want you to give me your immediate answer to that question - the statemnt stands alone - it has f**k all to do with Liverpool.  Do you believe any team that cant defeat  Charlton should be in the champions league? If so the future of the champions league is fucked and Liverpool are welcome to it, glorified intertoto cup it has become.

Sour Grapes

And what are you on about regarding Charlton im lost?

An Fear Rua

where some of those boys from the Red Issue?

Quote from: realredhandfan on May 03, 2007, 02:38:07 PM
Laois Lad, you highlighted my last statement -  do you believe any team that cant defeat  Charlton should be in the champions league?  I want you to give me your immediate answer to that question - the statemnt stands alone - it has f**k all to do with Liverpool.  Do you believe any team that cant defeat  Charlton should be in the champions league? If so the future of the champions league is fucked and Liverpool are welcome to it, glorified intertoto cup it has become.

I believe if you look at AC Milan they've lost to some fairly crap teams in Serie A this season. Does that mean they don't deserve to be there either?

Should only undefeated teams be allowed into the Champions League?

His statement makes no sense,United lost to West Ham/Middlesborough/Portsmouth this year so is he saying United shouldn't be in Champions League next year ???

Would that be the glorified inter-toto that both ferguson and moaninho are busting a gut to win?
The same glorified inter-toto that united have lost 7 semi's of?

If united had won last nite and went onto win the cup it would have been europe premier competition and united the best team in the world

Also this shite of teams not being able to win the league and CL, barcelona did it last year

The facts of the matter are that united just didn't have what it took to beat milan, nobody is to blame only ur own lack of depth

Quote from: Square Ball on May 03, 2007, 02:50:57 PM
An Fear Rua

where some of those boys from the Red Issue?

they posted on there sometimes , but mostly on m-u-f-c.co.uk back in the day.
Some away days could see upwards of 40 posters meeting up for a trip

Happy days indeed, and a fair while back as well.

indeed it was, a few more 'match reports' here.
http://www.m-u-f-c.co.uk/matches/index.php (http://www.m-u-f-c.co.uk/matches/index.php)

basically we just got drunk a lot and went to matches.

QuoteDo you believe any team that cant defeat  Charlton should be in the champions league?

What about a team that got beat by Southend United?

Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 03, 2007, 03:15:47 PM

QuoteDo you believe any team that cant defeat  Charlton should be in the champions league?

What about a team that got beat by Southend United?

Had forgotten about them :D

Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 03, 2007, 03:15:47 PM

QuoteDo you believe any team that cant defeat  Charlton should be in the champions league?

What about a team that got beat by Southend United?

Or West Ham.........

See about seven posts up Syd

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on May 03, 2007, 03:19:26 PM
See about seven posts up Syd

I see, am flat out at work so i am just hitting and moving  :P

QuoteDo you believe any team that cant defeat  Charlton should be in the champions league? If so the future of the champions league is fucked and Liverpool are welcome to it, glorified intertoto cup it has become.

What a daft post.

So any word what kit Liverpool are wearing? I hear it's the green and white one as they are the designated "away team"

Yeah they are the away team I hope it's the green and white one as that yellow one is awful
But then again we did win FA Cup Final 2001 wearing yellow 8)

Next years away

(http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/4812/liverpoolfourthaz6ht7zarp9.png)

Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 03, 2007, 03:38:23 PM
Next years away

(http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/4812/liverpoolfourthaz6ht7zarp9.png)

Where did you get that? I like it,is there room for SIX Stars on it :D

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on May 03, 2007, 03:41:03 PM

Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 03, 2007, 03:38:23 PM
Next years away

(http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/4812/liverpoolfourthaz6ht7zarp9.png)

Where did you get that? I like it,is there room for SIX Stars on it :D

Nice :)

and the 3rd kit

(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5032/liverpoolthirdlw3sr5qv0lg9.png)

Honestly Laoislad, you are safe enough with the 6 star thing

Quote from: full back on May 03, 2007, 03:44:04 PM
Honestly Laoislad, you are safe enough with the 6 star thing

We'll see 8)

At least were there to get a go at it! ;D

Sure there was no way they'd beat Barcelona or Chelsea either according to some

Quote from: Carmen Stateside on May 03, 2007, 03:46:10 PM
At least were there to get a go at it! ;D

Fcuk, did you have to go to class or lessons to be so funny

Quote from: full back on May 03, 2007, 03:44:04 PM
Honestly Laoislad, you are safe enough with the 6 star thing

Well at the very least you'd fit 2 stars on it

Fullback ur bitterness only makes it sweeter

Quote from: Mayo4Sam on May 03, 2007, 03:48:41 PM

Quote from: full back on May 03, 2007, 03:44:04 PM
Honestly Laoislad, you are safe enough with the 6 star thing

Well at the very least you'd fit 2 stars on it

Fullback ur bitterness only makes it sweeter

C'mon M4S, I have been trying hard all day
Yesterday I was full of praise for ye, today there are too many gloating fcukers :'(

Milan are big into wearing their white kit for finals, so Liverpool may be wearing red yet. Although after 2005, the Rossonieri may want to change to their home kit!

Just heard that they are goin to change the name of the FA cup this year. Apparently its goin to be call the champions league 3rd and 4th place playoffs!!

Quote from: full back on May 03, 2007, 03:56:20 PM

Quote from: Mayo4Sam on May 03, 2007, 03:48:41 PM

Quote from: full back on May 03, 2007, 03:44:04 PM
Honestly Laoislad, you are safe enough with the 6 star thing

Well at the very least you'd fit 2 stars on it

Fullback ur bitterness only makes it sweeter

C'mon M4S, I have been trying hard all day
Yesterday I was full of praise for ye, today there are too many gloating fcukers :'(

If its any consolation the reason so many liverpool people are gloating, apart from despising united, would be that I think we would have lost to united, the players have no problem beating chelsea but i think deep down they wouldn't have believed they could beat united.Would have been quiet a test, thank f**k yer out  ;)

Thats unbelievable to accuse me of being a united fan - Im not a united fan but a Milan Fan lads.  Yes we have had some shite results but we at least possess credibility within our own domestic league.  The CL is for high domestic achievers my fear is that Liverpool are not high achiverers in their own land and havent earned the right to be there in Athens, and yes when you are there you can take a pot shot at the uniteds and Milans of this world but have you earned that right domestically?  4 out of 5 league games Manchester would beat the scouser am I wrong - no.    Two years ago it was that easy we popped our corks at half time and ye s bate a half drunk team in the second half / after penalties, some achievement bating a drunken team.  We'' be leaving the Corks until the final whistle this year.
Viva Milano.  Ready steady go Milano!   

Wonder will Milan try and give the ref a bung realredhandfan :P

Listen laois Lad not a pleasant time for anyone in Italy, but we are world champions and after the pain of the bung allegations it would be worthy to add the champions league to the trophy haul would it not.
As for the champions league Ive always maintained that Liverpool bring more an element of i"ts a knockout" to the competition than a feeling of champion regality. How many championships since the 80s Laois lad, and you seriously believe that you should be in the champions league.   

Quote from: realredhandfan on May 03, 2007, 04:47:36 PM
Listen laois Lad not a pleasant time for anyone in Italy, but we are world champions and after the pain of the bung allegations it would be worthy to add the champions league to the trophy haul would it not.
As for the champions league Ive always maintained that Liverpool bring more an element of i"ts a knockout" to the competition than a feeling of champion regality. How many championships since the 80s Laois lad, and you seriously believe that you should be in the champions league.   

Are you Italian?

As italian as mama mia. 

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N155835070504-0954.htm

Liverpool to wear Red in the final

Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 04, 2007, 01:37:21 PM
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N155835070504-0954.htm

Liverpool to wear Red in the final

That's interesting. Much was made of the fact that Milan had never lost in white the last time around, so I thought they'd revert to proper rossoneri for this one. Certainly makes me feel better that Liverpool will be wearing the colours they have worn for forty-two of their 115 year existence.

Would anyone know anyone who has booked flights to Athens for the final and is not going now ( presumably Chelsea/Man United fans) ?If so please pm me asap.

Liverpool only getting 17,000 tickets.Also Uefa have said they expect Milan to hand back a lot of tickets but these won't be going to Liverpool fans

I have mates that support liverpool so i hope they win but I think they will be beaten 4-1.

your not the only one....


Ferguson backs Milan to beat Reds 

Milan's semi-final victory over United impressed Ferguson
Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson believes Liverpool have no chance of beating AC Milan in the Champions League final on 23 May.
Milan beat United in the semi-finals to set up a repeat of the 2005 final, which Liverpool won on penalties.

Ferguson told the Sun: "I'd bet for sure that Milan will win the Champions League. I'm absolutely certain of it.

"I told their manager Carlo Ancelotti at the end of our semi-final that there is no way he cannot win it now."

Ferguson plans to toast Milan's victory with a bottle of wine given to him by Ancelotti after his side had lost in Italy.

I'm still trying to analyse the factors involved but the truth remains we faced one of the best performances in the history of AC Milan

Sir Alex Ferguson

"Carlo gave me a magnificent bottle of wine," Ferguson added. "But I immediately told him I would only drink his wine once I see him lifting the Champions Cup."

The United boss admits his team were outclassed in the second leg of their semi-final, which Milan won 3-0.

But Ferguson believes his side were tired from their efforts in the Premiership the previous weekend, which helped United regain the title for the first time since 2003.

"Milan's second-leg victory over us was stupendous, fantastic and extraordinary," Ferguson said.

"But I know we paid a high price for the Premiership fightback which we needed at Everton to turn a 2-0 scoreline into a 4-2 victory.

"Last week, Milan were fresher and better prepared tactically and physically.

"I'm still trying to analyse the factors involved. But the truth remains we faced one of the best performances in the history of AC Milan."

Quote from: An Fear Rua on May 09, 2007, 09:08:44 AM
your not the only one....


Ferguson backs Milan to beat Reds 

Milan's semi-final victory over United impressed Ferguson
Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson believes Liverpool have no chance of beating AC Milan in the Champions League final on 23 May.
Milan beat United in the semi-finals to set up a repeat of the 2005 final, which Liverpool won on penalties.

Ferguson told the Sun: "I'd bet for sure that Milan will win the Champions League. I'm absolutely certain of it.

"I told their manager Carlo Ancelotti at the end of our semi-final that there is no way he cannot win it now."

Ferguson plans to toast Milan's victory with a bottle of wine given to him by Ancelotti after his side had lost in Italy.

I'm still trying to analyse the factors involved but the truth remains we faced one of the best performances in the history of AC Milan

Sir Alex Ferguson

"Carlo gave me a magnificent bottle of wine," Ferguson added. "But I immediately told him I would only drink his wine once I see him lifting the Champions Cup."

The United boss admits his team were outclassed in the second leg of their semi-final, which Milan won 3-0.

But Ferguson believes his side were tired from their efforts in the Premiership the previous weekend, which helped United regain the title for the first time since 2003.

"Milan's second-leg victory over us was stupendous, fantastic and extraordinary," Ferguson said.

"But I know we paid a high price for the Premiership fightback which we needed at Everton to turn a 2-0 scoreline into a 4-2 victory.

"Last week, Milan were fresher and better prepared tactically and physically.

"I'm still trying to analyse the factors involved. But the truth remains we faced one of the best performances in the history of AC Milan."

Well we have a better chance than some teams........Fergie needs to get over their disastrous performance last week and leave it the people involved.

The ballot happened this morning and it seems to have been a disatser. Reading the different forums the ballot was 24,000 people applying for for 13,000 tickets but on all the forums the ration seems to be 1 in every 15 or so got successful. One person had 20 names in the ballot and not one came out.

Cosnpiracy theroies are on the go on the forums, anyone affected on here?

Only eight days left :o

Ferguson just did what he has been doing for years - winding people up.
The best thing Liverpool can do is ignore 'Sir Alex'.
If liverpool win the champions leauge it will take the sparkle of utd title win and he doesn't want that.....

The countdowns well and truely on, finding it hard to get a good nites sleep already

Syd has got a pass for the evening from the missus to go on the rip to watch the match  ;D  ;D  ;D

Quote from: Syd on May 16, 2007, 12:49:50 PM
Syd has got a pass for the evening from the missus to go on the rip to watch the match  ;D  ;D  ;D

You can thank me for that Syd ;)

Quote from: full back on May 16, 2007, 12:51:34 PM

Quote from: Syd on May 16, 2007, 12:49:50 PM
Syd has got a pass for the evening from the missus to go on the rip to watch the match  ;D  ;D  ;D

You can thank me for that Syd ;)

Be safe......

I think they are seriously worried about us now.
None of this shite 2 years ago when they just had to turn to win... ;)
==============================================
Milan coach ridicules Reds style 

Ancelotti (left) was beaten by Benitez's side at the 2005 Champions League final
AC Milan Carlo Ancelotti has labelled Liverpool the worst technically-gifted of the three English sides to reach the Champions League semi-finals.
Ancelotti has also accused the Reds of abandoning their English roots ahead their Champions League final on 23 May.

"Technically, Liverpool are the worst team of the three English sides who reached the semi-finals," he said.

"But out of Liverpool, Chelsea and Manchester United, I'd have preferred United in the final."

Liverpool do not have the DNA of an English side

Carlo Ancelotti

He added: "You could see from the two legs of our semi-final with them that they play and let you play. I don't think it will be the same with Liverpool."

AC Milan were beaten by the Anfield side in the 2005 final in the competition after Liverpool came back from 3-0 down to draw level at 3-3 and then win on penalties.

Genarro Gattuso has already taunted the Reds by claiming they are not as good as Manchester United and Ancelotti has stoked the fires further with his latest comments.

He delivered a barb at counterpart Rafael Benitez and a policy he sees as decreasing the number of English players in the team.

"Milan are a strong Italian team. there is a strong Italian culture running through the team." said Ancelotti.

"Liverpool do not have the DNA of an English side. It is more of a Mediterranean team because of the coach."

Just over 48 hours to go :o

As no-one has picked up on 5ive times can I assume we are the only GAA men/women there ? If the weather, pitch, determination and result are the same as Pairc Esler it will be worth getting up at 2.30am on Wednesday to be at Aldergove for 3.30 and arrive back at 5.30am ( or up to 8 hours later) on Thursday. If antone has tips on what to do when we arrive in Athens ( aprt from the obvious) I'd be grateful.

I will be well clear of the local on Wed night just in case the unthinkable happens, and to make matters worse they are having an Istanbul remembered night on Friday, complete rerun of the match and all that, mind you the result on Wed will dictate how many go.

Actually will be watching a under 14 hurling semi final then, so thats even better.

I have just found out today we have a hurling match on Wednesday @ 7.30pm. f**king bastards !!!

Quote from: Syd on May 21, 2007, 08:08:01 PM
I have just found out today we have a hurling match on Wednesday @ 7.30pm. f**king bastards !!!

Oops

what will you be doing? Hurling or match?

Quote from: Square Ball on May 21, 2007, 08:24:25 PM

Quote from: Syd on May 21, 2007, 08:08:01 PM
I have just found out today we have a hurling match on Wednesday @ 7.30pm. f**king bastards !!!

Oops

what will you be doing? Hurling or match?

Well i am working hard behind the scenes to get it called off so fingers crossed. I had planned a piss up in Belfast to watch the match....

Tut tut Syd are you really going to choose a foreign game over your national game?  ;D

Ever hear this commentary?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJeSooXp3lI&mode=related&search=

Quote from: ONeill on May 21, 2007, 11:30:23 PM
Ever hear this commentary?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJeSooXp3lI&mode=related&search=

That is class! ;D

(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7114/liverpoolvsmilanjpgmj3.jpg)

If there's any justice in the world Milan will get revenge for the disgraceful act of larceny they allowed happen two years ago. Otherwise my winnings will pay most of my bills from the New York trip. WIN win. Feck the money, come on the Rossineri.

Quote from: ONeill on May 21, 2007, 11:30:23 PM
Ever hear this commentary?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJeSooXp3lI&mode=related&search=

Brillaint..John Aldridge screaming in the background is hillarious!!! ;D

Anyone have some bets on?
I put 10 on Steve Finnan to score in 90mins at 20/1
Complete longshot i know but who knows in a final .....Phil Neal anyone???

AC Milan -1  ;)

Quote from: ExiledGael on May 22, 2007, 05:54:25 PM
AC Milan -1  ;)

You must have loads of money if you can throw it away on bets like that :D

At half time that is, I forgot to say!  :D

This time tomorrow night................. :o

Sky Sports News reporting that Kuyt will be up front by himself tomorrow night with Gerrard just behind him.

How much truth in it is another matter.

I expected the Gerrard in behind tactic, but with Crouch as the main striker. Guess we wil lfind out tomorrow.

if we play crouch up front then we'd need pennant and KEWELL on the wings as they wud keep in gud supply of crosses... zenden doent really give us much goin forward

2-1 to the Pool you heard it here first ;)

Good luck to Liverpool tonight. A classy club.

Im off down the country now lads so won't get much time to post here before or after Final
Best of luck to the Pool
Im going for Liverpool(surprise surprise) winning 3-2 after extra time and also have them backed to win on penaltys

Liverpool on penalties after a borefest.

Hope Milan rip them a new one but my prediction above is the most likely outcome.

0-0 after full time and milan to take it in extra time or peno's!

I'm f**king bricking it this morning

However, I can see 'Pool winning 2 nil

Liverpool don't seem to do borefests in finals to be fair, only leading up to them - 3 all with West Ham in last years FA cup final, won on penalties, 3 nill down to Milan in 2005 at half time, won on penos, 4 all with Alaves in the Uefa cup final, won on a golden goal. If it's nil all after extra time, and Liverpool win on penalties, I'm sure their fans will take it somehow?

Quote from: magpie seanie on May 23, 2007, 01:42:00 PM
Liverpool on penalties after a borefest.

Hope Milan rip them a new one but my prediction above is the most likely outcome.

Couldn't give a fiddlers f**k if Liverpool don't have a shot on target the whole night and then win on penalties..
Same way i doubt Chelsea fans cared after saturdays Borefest!

QuoteCouldn't give a fiddlers f**k if Liverpool don't have a shot on target the whole night and then win on penalties..
Same way i doubt Chelsea fans cared after saturdays Borefest!

Exactly.

f**k away off begrudgers!!
Come on you Reds.....

(http://blogorrah.com/blogimages/srfron250207.jpg)

Will this fecking soccer season ever be over. Mother of God and her holy donkey you would swear it was interesting with the carry on.

150 Scousers were left stranded when their flight was cancelled an there was no other planes available, some even had tickets for people already in Athens, was listening to one of the punters on the radio, he was distraught and his daughter was crying in the back of a car.

Come on Milan, soccer needs you to win

Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 23, 2007, 05:53:27 PM
Come on Milan, soccer needs you to win

The cheats shouldn't even be in the competition this year

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMvsDq6ku14 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMvsDq6ku14)

oh campione!

Bore the Utd. fans can't handle Liverpool winning yet another Champions league

Quote from: Dinny Breen on May 23, 2007, 05:53:27 PM
Come on Milan, soccer needs you to win

This might be true, but personally I couldn't give a rat's ass about the welfare of soccer. Come on the Pool!

Teams: 

AC Milan team: Dida; Massimo Oddo, Alessandro Nesta, Paolo Maldini, Marek Jankulovski; Gennaro Gattuso, Andrea Pirlo, Massimo Ambrosini, Clarence Seedorf, Kaka; Filippo Inzaghi.

Liverpool team: Pepe Reina; Steve Finnan, Daniel Agger, Jamie Carragher, John-Arne Riise; Jermaine Pennant, Javier Mascherano, Xabi Alonso, Steven Gerrard, Bolo Zenden; Dirk Kuyt.

Liverpool starting fairly promising.

1-0 Milan just before the break!

Half Time now, 1-0 to Milan

81 mins:
AC Milan 2-0 Liverpool

88 mins:
AC Milan 2-1 Liverpool!!!!!!!
3 mins added, thats enough time!!

Full Time:
AC Milan 2-1 Liverpool.
AC are Champions of Europe!

Not much to say really. You can't fault Liverpool for their overall performance. Milan took their chances, Liverpool didn't. In a tight game that was the difference. Congrats to Milan.

Nice touch from Milan to applaud Liverpool up.

I am beginning to despise soccer and its horribly warped logic.

I didn't watch the game, but by the sounds of things Liverpool played well and could have won.

In other words, they were a close shave away from being the best team in Europe.


Yet I've tuned in now and all that **** of a commentator wants to talk about is new signings and war chests.

No recriminations. Liverpool were / are limited and there is only so many times tactical wizardry can disguise that. I think Benitez caught Milan by surprise with his dynamic(ish) setup in the first half but when Inzaghi got that flukey goal right before half time they were able to play with more poise in the second half and the second goal showed that. Well done Meee-lan.

That p***k Kewell should be nowhere near the team.  What has he ever done for Liverpool FC apart from cost us a fortune in wages?  Zenden has neither impressed me in his time.  Very disappointing result and such a flukey goal.  Changes needed - especially on the left wing.

Man,  that's one bare looking cabinet there!!!Sorry lads but this is payback for 2005 and revenge is a dish best served cold after all!!

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a180/cicfada/PoolsTrophyCabinet.jpg
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a180/cicfada/PoolsTrophyCabinet.jpg)

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Quote from: cicfada on May 23, 2007, 10:22:20 PM
Man,  that's one bare looking cabinet there!!!Sorry lads but this is payback for 2005 and revenge is a dish best served cold after all!!

What goes around . . .

We must stop meeting up like this, first ...AFR and  now here??? ;)

i love the fact that 3 people have voted for Milan since the match finished!

To the 'proper' Pool fans on here..unlucky lads. Only seen the 2nd half as I was at a minor game, and I don;t think Pool were great, but probably deserved more than they got. Truth be told, Liverpool have lost 4 times in the CL this year, and their only trophies over the last few years have been fortuitous. Saying that I still think that 3/4 astute signings will see them compete next year at the least.


For my buddy Syd.......

(http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/1230/scousepricelessix9.jpg)

(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2155/championsleaguefinalwo1.jpg)

(http://i10.tinypic.com/644caxe.jpg)

this is sooooo funny.

R5 reporting crowd trouble in Athens. Apparently ticketless fans inside the ground, and ticket holders locked out!

While I negotiate my way through some of the gits getting their sly digs in after the game (and who are usually nowhere to be seen on these threads) I would like to congratulate AC Milan on winning the cup and being as sportmanlike as befits their great club.

In 2005 the best team on the night lost the cup and much the same happened this time (although to a lesser extent). Call it karma or whatever but maybe fate owed us one so no complaints here. Congrats to Milan.

Typical though that Kaka and Seedorf would be kept pretty quiet on the night and serial diver and goal-hanger Pippo Inzaghi would be the player to somehow score two goals. That lad must have been born with a clump of clover wedged up his backside.

Anyway, such is life.

Liverpool just weren't good enough. Milan didn't really perform and that was a combination of Liverpools good pressing and effort and their own form but at the end of the day it was their greater quality that was the difference. How Benitez didn't even try Bellamy was beyond me.

Benitez obviously doesn't fancy Bellamy for big games, apart from Barcelona away, i don't remember him starting many of the so called big matches - Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U etc

Pip Pip!

Commiserations to the Liverpool fans, Liverpool up on till the first goal looked the better side and I can't help wonder how much a better side Liverpool would be without Pennant and that god-awful Zenden and the very limited Kyut. They are still a few players short imho.

It was all abit of an anti-climax in the end. It looked inevitable from the moment Milan got that fluke goal. Up until then, Liverpool were the better team.  Thats the way it goes, pay back for 2005.  I thought Riise was as poor as i have ever seen him, looked very nervous. Kewell was very poor when he came on, his first contribution was to dive and he repeated the act shortly after.  He got a few runs/crosses in but they were largely due to the ball falling kindly to him after he mis-controlled.

Gerrard tried hard but missed a good chance, Pennant looked lively in the first half but also missed Liverpool's best chance.  Alonso and Masch played well, Masch looks the real deal.  Kuyt was his usual self but is lacking pace at this level.  Carra, Agger and Finnan were solid.

The only thing to take from the fact that Bellamy wasn't involved is that Rafa does not rate him and he won't be at Anfield next year.  Crouch could have been brought on earlier in my opinion.

Pity that Robbie didn't make the bench but Rafa is ruthless and has no time for sentiment.

Pool have won games in recent years where they werent the better team so cant really complain when they get caught like last night.

We are well short of whats required in my book. 4 of the back 5 are safe and Marcherano. After that I wouldnt be crying if any of front players were sold. Gerrard showed last night something I have doubted for ages that he doesnt have a footballing brain. He is an all action explosive player but has no craft, no guile and cant spot the simple pass to a better placed team mate.
Its always the "Silver bullet" with him. The 30yard net buster or attempting the difficult pass.
Pennant Zenden Kuyt arent up to it. Alonso has gone completely off the boil and has become niggly in tackiling and gave away stupid frees last night.

Am more depressed about the future than losing last night as I think for Pool to progress there has to be a complete change of tactics from Rafa and 4-5 attack minded players. Thats something I cant see happening for foreseeable future to be honest

i see 'hundreds' of Scouser Scum charged the turnstyles without tickets last night. What sort of gypsy bastards are they? You'd think they'd have learned from Hillsborough.

OK. first time in in a couple of days and I see this from Slim. You can't say you weren't warned. Can I please ask that other posters do not bring the tone down by retaliating. He is banned, but I am leaving the post here in case there is a question as to why.

Bye Slim.

That was a very good point by Slim, but he could have said it without the insults.

The point he made was incorrect. Fans with genuine tickets were locked outside because people with forged tickets were inside in their seats.

OK, well disappointed at the result but in all fairness I think it was symptomatic of the season as a whole, and LFC can't really complain at all. What comes around goes around, and this time I think Liverpool were slightly better on the balance of play, but lost the game, in contrast to the final in 2005.

Liverpool are obviously short of quality in the final third of the field, and for the umpteenth time this season agains quality opposition have failed to turn possession or pressure into goal chances. If you don't make clear chances you do not deserve to win, no matter how much pressure you apply.

Forza Milan, well done on a great win, you are deserving champions. I think there is a couple of Rossinieri on here, so well done. It was great to see the Milan team show respect to a beaten team, and I am delighted for Gattuso, Maldini, Nesta and Kaka.

As for Liverpool, this is still progress, and we must not forget that. The team that lost last night is a better team than that which won in 2005. I think we all know the main weak area(s) so if they can be addressed in the Summer, Liverpool will continue to progress, and that is all we can ask for.

In fairness, I think Slim breached all of the topics mentioned in the posting standards with that one :D

Quote from: High Catch on May 24, 2007, 09:58:27 AM
The point he made was incorrect. Fans with genuine tickets were locked outside because people with forged tickets were inside in their seats.

They still pushed there way threw security trying to get into the ground.

Maybe, maybe not. But i would be pretty pissed off if I had a real ticket and was told someone had my seat.  Imagine getting a ticket, getting to Athens, heading to the stadium before kick off and then to be told that the stadium is full, hard luck.  That is a joke. The authorities fucked up big time here.

Was having a few beers with a mate watching the game and a mate of his texted him 20 mins before kick off to say the cops were saying the ground was full and wouldnt let people with genuine tickets in. He tried to have a word with a cop and got tear gassed for his trouble. Then they let them in. ::)
Had a tenner on Inzaghi at 8's ;D

I only saw the last 35 minutes as i had a hurling match last night. But it all sounds familiar, being on top and not scoring, how many times have we heard that? We are just missing a bit of guile and top quality upfront, this is news to nobody so they will have to get the cash out in the summer. As for that bastard Kewell, he should be shot with a pound of his own shite, all he did was dive and pull out of tackles. I think he put in a half arsed tackle, lost it and Milan scored their 2nd goal. I found it all a bit familiar as well today on Sky Sports listening to all the whining scousers, i have no doubt some of the oraganisation at the stadium was brutal but to just charge into the stadium with no tickets was a bit much, do they not remember Hillsborough? Unfortunately with Scousers it is always someone elses fault.

Syd, im sure they do remember Hillsborough. 

If the authorites hadn't have let the ones with fake tickets into the stadium in the first place then there would have been no pushing from the fans with the real tickets.

From BBC website


Uefa blames Reds fans for chaos 

Liverpool fans with tickets were turned away from the stadium
Uefa has blamed Liverpool fans for the problems before Wednesday's Champions League final against AC Milan.
Riot police in Athens used tear gas and batons outside the Olympic Stadium as fans were turned away because they were told the stadium was already full.

Uefa spokesman William Gaillard said: "The behaviour of the Liverpool fans is in the end responsible for the problems that took place before the game."

The British Embassy in Athens vowed to take up the matter.


Interview: Uefa spokesman William Gaillard

606: DEBATE
Who was to blame for the problems? 

The game ended in a 2-1 defeat for Liverpool at the hands of Italian side AC Milan, but many Liverpool fans with tickets did not get to see the game.

Disorder broke out before kick-off when fans were held back because of congestion outside the ground.

Police told fans going through the penultimate checkpoint to slow down or even stop moving, then riot police formed a line to stop other fans joining queues to move through the checkpoint.

The Milan supporters didn't face the same problems because they didn't behave in the same way

Uefa spokesman William Gaillard

They were then told they would not be allowed in as the ground was full because fans with forged tickets, or without tickets at all, had managed to get past security.

Gaillard told BBC Radio Five Live: "The behaviour of the supporters before the game made it extremely difficult for the police who didn't want to use brutal methods and they have to be praised for that.

"To control the fact that so many fake tickets were around as we warned but this was all done in Britain."

Former Conservative leader Michael Howard was at the game and he said: "I didn't think the match should have been held at the stadium.

"It's not a football stadium and is not equipped to cope with that number of people.

"Ticket checks were a joke. Many people with valid tickets were not allowed in.

"That is not acceptable and Uefa really need to look at their procedures and make sure everything is all in order.

"As far as I'm aware no-one was hurt, and that's a mercy, but it's no thanks to the Greek authorities, and I'm afraid there was a large measure of incompetence."

But Gaillard responded: "It is very easy to say it is not a suitable stadium, coming from the man that invented the poll tax.

"The Milan supporters didn't face the same problems because they didn't behave in the same way.

"The kind of pushing that was going on and the attempts to jump over barriers - imagine if we had turnstiles, we could have had a tragedy.

"More than three hours before the game there were incidents at the Liverpool end with people trying to get in either with fake tickets or jumping over the barriers.

"It is obvious that at one point the police felt overwhelmed and it is much to their credit there were no dangerous incidents.

"I am very sorry for what happened to fans who had regular tickets but at the same time there is a collective responsibility in terms of behaviour.

"This area was all for Liverpool fans and the bulk were obviously extremely honest people who had got tickets in the right way and observed the rules.

"But unfortunately because of a minority who did not they found themselves in a very uncomfortable and unpleasant position."

Gaillard defended Uefa against any responsibility for the problems, adding: "The only responsibility we could have is that we did not choose a stadium with 250,000 seats, but unfortunately they do not exist."

Quote from: Syd on May 24, 2007, 10:24:14 AM
I only saw the last 35 minutes as i had a hurling match last night. But it all sounds familiar, being on top and not scoring, how many times have we heard that? We are just missing a bit of guile and top quality upfront, this is news to nobody so they will have to get the cash out in the summer. As for that bastard Kewell, he should be shot with a pound of his own shite, all he did was dive and pull out of tackles. I think he put in a half arsed tackle, lost it and Milan scored their 2nd goal. I found it all a bit familiar as well today on Sky Sports listening to all the whining scousers, i have no doubt some of the oraganisation at the stadium was brutal but to just charge into the stadium with no tickets was a bit much, do they not remember Hillsborough? Unfortunately with Scousers it is always someone elses fault.

! :o !


Syd I don't know what's wrong with you today, but I agre with the last statement! At the same time I hope the media pick up on the tones of Guillard's comments which are general and sweeping, and dangerous.

This is the same man who called José the 'enemy of football' prior to his dsciplinary case therefore prejudicing the case or what!

Quote from: High Catch on May 24, 2007, 10:26:53 AM
Syd, im sure they do remember Hillsborough. 

If the authorites hadn't have let the ones with fake tickets into the stadium in the first place then there would have been no pushing from the fans with the real tickets.

I ahve no doubt there was blame on both sides but to come onto the TV with the usual scouse persecution mentality is a bit hard to take.

Good 'oul Slim. He has been away for a month - comes back, doesnt read the posting rules & gets nailed for it!!

Have to say the Scousers did have the lions share of the play, but as has been the case for quite a while they have no cutting edge up front. No point in having the best chances if you cant put them away.
Defence was steady as per usual, but Carragher looked dead on his feet in the last 10/15 & was playing Inzaghi on for the second goal.
Pennant got plenty of the ball & fired in crosses, but they were to no one in particular, maybe because of the lack of support for Kuyt.
Holy fcuk, how does Bolo Zenden continually get on that team? What a dud. Djimi got his medal 2 years ago & is a sh1te player but Zendon makes him look like f**king Pele.
As for 'Arry fcukin Kewell :D Pure sh1te, all he did when he came on was dive or lose the ball.
Benitez waited far too long before throwing on Crouch, but to be honest it is one of the few times his tactics in Europe has let him down.
Overall, the 'Pool are still a few short out wide & up front. If they get the big kitty during the Summer they have a chance of challenging for the title next season.

Apparently Liverpool are being sponsored by AIG next season......

Ain't Inzaghi Great  ;D

What's Olivia Newton John and Liverpool got in common?
Both got ****** in Greece :-)

How dare anyone blame Liverpool fans for causing trouble. Don't you know rightly it was the fault of the Police as usual. Cue another book,film,play and campaign for justice from the Mersey mopes. I was in Glasgow last week for the UEFA Cup Final and the behaviour of the Spanish fans from both teams and the Glaswegians (including the local Police) was exemplary, I witnessed not one hint of trouble either in the City Centre or the stadium itself

On a further note, is there anything to beat the feeling of seeing English teams getting duffed in Champions League Finals ;D

Quote from: T Fearon on May 24, 2007, 11:09:46 AM
How dare anyone blame Liverpool fans for causing trouble. Don't you know rightly it was the fault of the Police as usual. Cue another book,film,play and campaign for justice from the Mersey mopes. I was in Glasgow last week for the UEFA Cup Final and the behaviour of the Spanish fans from both teams and the Glaswegians (including the local Police) was exemplary, I witnessed not one hint of trouble either in the City Centre or the stadium itself

On a further note, is there anything to beat the feeling of seeing English teams getting duffed in Champions League Finals ;D

or getting duffed in that other mickey mouse competition. What's it called again?

Quote from: AZOffaly on May 24, 2007, 09:59:46 AM
In fairness, I think Slim breached all of the topics mentioned in the posting standards with that one :D

In fairness, Slim should have gone ages ago for his frequent abusive tone. Well done admin.

Slim was not the worst though. Far worse has been posted than what he was banned for.

Correct Seanie, why hasn't anyone else been banned for mentioning Hillsborough?

Not since the rules were posted Seanie. This thread, and the United one, has been fairly well behaved since then.

Quote from: T Fearon on May 24, 2007, 11:09:46 AM
How dare anyone blame Liverpool fans for causing trouble. Don't you know rightly it was the fault of the Police as usual. Cue another book,film,play and campaign for justice from the Mersey mopes. I was in Glasgow last week for the UEFA Cup Final and the behaviour of the Spanish fans from both teams and the Glaswegians (including the local Police) was exemplary, I witnessed not one hint of trouble either in the City Centre or the stadium itself

On a further note, is there anything to beat the feeling of seeing English teams getting duffed in Champions League Finals ;D

and what of this?

I didn't see that post to be honest. Now that I have, It is certainly not in the same league as your post, in my opinion. The difference in my view is that people can disagree with that statement and have a discussion. Your post was inflammatory, and a poster child for the type of posts we are trying to eliminate.

Hes back. Just ban him again. 8)

I'm having nightmares about the Moderator this last week.

Liverpool can rightly feel they left that one behind last night. they dominated the first half, didn't take their chances and were suckered with a lucky deflection. the second half was a different story for long periods with milan controlling liverpool comfortably.

couple of points...

I couldn't understand why Liverpool never cut loose and threw everything at milan in the last half hour. certainly with 15 to go nesta and maldini were out on their feet. rafa's conservatism filtering through the players' psyche?

When Milan were so obviously tiring, why did rafa not throw bellamy on? was that not glaringly obvious?

Harry Kewell. why of why. woeful player but more pertinantly a woeful character. pulled out of the tackle leading to the second goal and then stood complaining as the same move developed with kaka finding just enough time and space where kewell should have been, despite kuyt shouting at him to get back. i think we all knew in advance that this is the norm for him. didn't rafa?

I think serious questions need to be asked of benitez's management. he can set a team up well in advance of games but cannot make decisions in game. his signings haven't been great either.

Quote from: T Fearon on May 24, 2007, 11:09:46 AM
How dare anyone blame Liverpool fans for causing trouble. Don't you know rightly it was the fault of the Police as usual. Cue another book,film,play and campaign for justice from the Mersey mopes. I was in Glasgow last week for the UEFA Cup Final and the behaviour of the Spanish fans from both teams and the Glaswegians (including the local Police) was exemplary, I witnessed not one hint of trouble either in the City Centre or the stadium itself

On a further note, is there anything to beat the feeling of seeing English teams getting duffed in Champions League Finals ;D

Oh yeah you p***k, this was the game the mighty Sours were to play in, right!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Surely you are not casting doubt over Rafa's management skills Uladh? He obviously sees something in Kewell that most of us have not seen yet.  Plus, who else would you have put on instead? Bellamy maybe?

86mins gone..... 2 nil down..... who does the Fat Controller bring on to score a hattrick?





Arbeloa  ;D

and why oh why were the Liverpool fans singing for Harry Kewell to come on before he did? Sweet Jesus he's a dungbag!

Quote from: Uladh on May 24, 2007, 12:26:35 PM
Liverpool can rightly feel they left that one behind last night. they dominated the first half, didn't take their chances and were suckered with a lucky deflection. the second half was a different story for long periods with milan controlling liverpool comfortably.

couple of points...

I couldn't understand why Liverpool never cut loose and threw everything at milan in the last half hour. certainly with 15 to go nesta and maldini were out on their feet. rafa's conservatism filtering through the players' psyche?

When Milan were so obviously tiring, why did rafa not throw bellamy on? was that not glaringly obvious?

Harry Kewell. why of why. woeful player but more pertinantly a woeful character. pulled out of the tackle leading to the second goal and then stood complaining as the same move developed with kaka finding just enough time and space where kewell should have been, despite kuyt shouting at him to get back. i think we all knew in advance that this is the norm for him. didn't rafa?

I think serious questions need to be asked of benitez's management. he can set a team up well in advance of games but cannot make decisions in game. his signings haven't been great either.

I'd mostly agree with that Uladh
I have not been convinced with benitez. If he is as good as his record suggests, he has been selling himself short by falling into the houllier trap and not making wholesale changes with the playing personel at the club, instead he has brought in a lot of his own men and tried to integrate them with players that were already there - and just dont fit into his systems.
While Liverpool looked solid, they are still not only short or the kinds of player they need, they are playing some people way out of position to the detriment of the side imo.
Also I agree that milan were flagging - but not just at the end,I thought their defence was last gasp and panicing form the start. Maldini had a stinker and the left back was as bad if not worse. A single striker played into their hands. What if's etc, but the pace and directness of Bellamy last night would have unhinged them. But milan were let off the hook.
Benitez another man who cannot respond to what he sees happening on the field (but just cannot read or react to it).

A game liverpool could have won, but their manager and his tactics let them down.
Milan proved that they are no great shakes once kaka is kept quiet.

Don't agree with the comments about Rafa at all. Maybe Finnan got injured. Obviously Bellamy has played his last ball for Liverpool and rafa just does not rate him.  At the end of the day, liverpool were beaten by a freak goal.  Nothing the manager can do about that.  Plus he has never had the money to bring in the players who he really wants. Until now. Expect wholesale changes this summer with a couple of big names more than willing to play for Liverpool with rafa at the helm.

Have not heard all the stories or heard all the reports but a few points;

Radio 1 reported yesterday that these forged tickets could only be established as fake under an ultra violet light - therefore I am certain Liverpool fans bought them in good grace.

There was not one arrest overnight, so I doubt it was the riot scene some are hoping for.

On the game itself:

Anti- climax, I felt weird watching it, no real spark or determination from either side. It was all a bit flat. All the good sportsmanship before and after it just sort of felt like it was our turn two years ago, now its ACs.

I seem to be the only one that though Kewell done ok when he came on, he won a couple of corners and got down the line a few times.

Of the starting eleven last night, if we were in the same position next year the only starters I would want would be : Reina, Finnan, Agger, Carragher, Mascherano, Alonso (bad season). Squad places for Kuyt and Pennant.

This may well of been Bellamys last game for Liverpool.

Corn, surely you forgot to include gerrard in your list for next year.

Kewell did get a few crosses and got down the line but this was mainly due to him mis-controlling the ball and getting a lucky break.  He dived twice and made a poor attempt of a tacxkle that led to the second goal.

The real pity is that Barcelona were out of sorts when they played Liverpool and we were denied a dream final pairing of Milan Versus Barcelona, Europe's top two current clubs.

Interestingly with all the money floating about (and the top players comning to England as a result), Premiership clubs fail to win the Champions League once again.

good post Corn, in that it is looking forward at least :D

My team next year (Depth chart actually, like the Yanks do)

GK - Reina, Carson

LB - Riise, Aurelio, Arbeloa

RB - Finnan, Arbeloa

CB - Carragher, Agger

LM -

CM - Mascherano, Alonso, Gerrard, Sissoko

RM - Gerrard, Pennant

ST - Kuyt, Crouch,

As you can see, the main area for concern as far as I am concerned is left side of Midfield, a cover for CB and a top class Striker.

Maybe someone like Alves would be useful at left side, but I'd like someone purely attack minded. Simao or Jaoquin maybe.
Up front, they must get someone like Torres, Villa, Eto'o or even Tevez.

Apologies High Catch, I meant to include Gerrard.

T Fearon, what is your hatred for the Premier League all about. Also if it is so strong how can you support a team in it. Spanish League is better anyway.

AZ, I would be fairly certain that it will be Villa coming our way which I am happy enough about. Milito should be the CB cover and I expect Alves to arrive.

LM is a problem, I watch a fair bit of Spanish football and I can assure you Joaquin is not the player he was a couple of years ago. He got a couple of goals at the death of this season to cover up for a poor season. I hope we get Simao in though.

So: Villa, Milito, Simao and Alves would it satisfy you?

that's not a bad list at all :D, but I'd like a player with Premiership experience as well though. Maybe Tevez or Berbatov?

Quote from: corn02 on May 24, 2007, 12:44:05 PM
Have not heard all the stories or heard all the reports but a few points;

Radio 1 reported yesterday that these forged tickets could only be established as fake under an ultra violet light - therefore I am certain Liverpool fans bought them in good grace.

There was not one arrest overnight, so I doubt it was the riot scene some are hoping for.

ahem

Flood of forged tickets is final straw for supporters

Owen Slot, Chief Sports Reporter, in Athens
No one can really say whether the problems that occurred outside the Olympic Stadium were inevitable, unavoidable or simply the fault of the ticketless Liverpool fans who tried to storm through the gates. But with security guards weeding out hundreds for possessing forged tickets, the Greek police were prepared for what came at them.

There were two incidents that took place just as the match was starting yesterday. Outside the outer ring, police in riot gear had to use teargas and batons to repel a group of fans who had tried to storm a gate. At about the same time, closer to the stadium, a group of 500 fans also tried to charge their way through a gate. The police there responded by simply shutting the gates, although they were forced to let a few fans through when the crush became dangerous. In both these incidents, Greek police reported that it was largely Liverpool fans involved.

The frustration of many of the fans would explain much of what happened outside the stadium. The small allocation of tickets to each club was known long before anyone reached Athens, but another issue has been the quantity of forged tickets that have been on the market. Police made 97 arrests for people possessing or selling forgeries, but they did not come close to burying the problem.
To get into the stadium, fans had their tickets checked three times, the first two were cursory glances, the third required the logos to be checked with a special infra-red device. It was here that hundreds of forgeries were being spotted and the hapless fans were told that no matter what they had paid for their tickets, they could not go any farther. Many of these forgeries had cost in the region of £500.


With so many fans having paid so much to be disappointed, the two incidents at the gates last night can hardly have come as a surprise.

And they were not what we term "major" incidents of hooliganism. Overall, the atmosphere around this Champions League final has been convivial, save for a few incidents of fighting and bottle throwing in the city centre as fans without tickets watched the match on a big screen.

However, the lack of tickets has been the fans' story since they arrived. Yesterday, Greek police arrested a 28-year-old British man for selling 50 forged final tickets to an Italian travel agent for ¤58,000 (about £34,000). With black market prices rising reportedly to ¤5,000, he was probably sniffed out because his prices were so reasonable.

Elsewhere, one Liverpool fan reported that a taxi driver had driven off with his ticket. He had taken his luggage, too, but that was of little concern. Police also reported that a fight over a ticket had broken out between two Liverpool fans and it had got so bad that they had to be treated in hospital.

Outside the ground, one man was in the process of giving his tickets to stewards when he was knocked to the ground and had both tickets taken from his hand. Those tickets were probably resold immediately at Irini station, the stop that feeds the Olympic park, because the market there before the game was rife. In the hours before the match, ticketless fans gathered there in hope. Many said they had never known tickets to be so scarce and many were holding high their personal "Tickets Wanted" advertisements; some were offering £1,500 a pair and getting nowhere.

Others had paid £100 for what they knew were forgeries but they hoped might get them through. "What have you got?" one fan asked another as they jostled in the first queue. "A piece of paper that's as good as a piece of s***e," he replied before turning to his teenage son. "Don't worry, lad, we'll get in. It's the European Cup final, we always get in." And how were they intending to do so? "We're going to steam the c***s," he explained. -
Many of them did clearly succeed in getting in illegally because the Liverpool end last night was packed to the point where many feared it was becoming dangerous. The police were aware of a vast excess of bodies in the lower tier. When the game was still 30 minutes from starting, some fans at Gate 35 were screaming at stewards to stop letting any more people in.

As the match was played out last night, few inside would have known about the tales of despair from those left outside. The story last night was of AC Milan's revenge on Liverpool for the events of 2005, but the other tale of Athens is the market for forged tickets, for many people are making huge sums of money from this and the fans are paying and they are doing so dearly.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/european_football/article1832527.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/european_football/article1832527.ece)


The root of the problems is that the finalists are not deemed as worthy of tickets as the corporates, and until people stop paying and feeding the machine it will continue.

I think if Tevez stays in England it will be with West Ham. Berbatov will be pretty much promised to have a team centered round him and I think he will like being the big fish. Premiership class is what we would want but the best strikers in the premiership are : Rooney, Crouch, Tevez, McCarthy, Henry and Berbatov. These are the people who score goals and I can't see any of them putting on a Liverpool shirt next year.

The people pushing at the gates and tear gassed where the ones with the real tickets. Did you expect them to say "oh what bad luck" have a chuckle and walk home?

97 arrests for selling forgeries, of course this had to be Liverpool fans. No way could it be Greek touts!

That quote, is that from a relaible source. Although I have never heard of papers making up false stories about Liverpool fans.  ::)

Pennant was given the freedom of that right hand side for 90 mins yet failed to do anything with it through lack of ability. I know his options were limited with Kuyt well marshalled but a decent winger would've caused mayhem cutting into the box.

Quote[He obviously sees something in Kewell that most of us have not seen yet./quote]

Maybe it's an age thing but I can rmemebr Kewell in his pomp as a young player with Leeds. In those days he was easliy the most exciting prospect in the Prem. Things started to go wrong for him when he started believing his own hype and insisting on telling the manager to play him as s a striker rather than a left winger.

Difficult to see it now but he was good at one stage.........................honest

Lot of valid points about the squad for next year.

Berbatov would be good - surely he'd jump at the chance to play for a big club? Like West ham and Tevez, they're more of a feeder club these days. Players want the chance to win things after all.

We're overloaded in Midfield - Mascherano, alonso, gerrard, Sissoko and the brazilian Leiva. Xavi needs a new challenge.

Gonzalez nearly gone, zenden going, kewell to be hopefully booted out and pennant to stay in squad. need wingers/Playmakers.

Bye bye bellamy, crouch to stay in squad, Kuyt's a great worker but needs quality. Not sure if he has it but good player to bring on.

Not sure if i trust agger yet - still a bit young. need to replace sami.

I read that quote in the times AFR. The one about 'we'll steam the c**ts'. I have no time for that sh1t, and as a Liverpool supporter, I say anyone who knowingly tried to rush the gates on a forged ticket are a disgrace to the club and to themselves.

Some of the Liverpool fans need to accept their share of the blame. What is it about English fans abroad and "heavy handed police".....???

Agger is only 22, still not super but will be. Alonso will return to Spain I fear. He has had two bad seasons but I would still have faith in him.

Of all the stuff that has happened in the history of our club, I can not get over the following:

We bought Gonzales for £2million and it looks like we are getting£5 million for him. If this is true Benitez should be given an unlimited contract.

Who is paying £5 million for Gonzalez?

Quote from: High Catch on May 24, 2007, 02:01:19 PM
Who is paying £5 million for Gonzalez?

Real Betis, deal almost done.

Maybe high treason but does anyone else think no matter who we get in during the summer that the type of football Pool play will still be the same under Rafa and that the European Cup will always be the best chance of silverware as Rafa treats every game a final and sets up teams to counteract the opponents 1st and play their own game 2nd?

Muppets. :P

Quote from: corn02 on May 24, 2007, 01:29:17 PM
The people pushing at the gates and tear gassed where the ones with the real tickets.

How do you know?

This is my first chance i got to post since last nights match..Im very disapointed,they left it behind them and the goal just before half time was a killer
Hindsight is a great thing and people now are questioning Benitez for playing certain people and not doing this or that during the game..Fact is i think no matter who he brought on or what formation he played Liverpool are just not good enough,they need a massive clearout in the summer.. Pennant,Zenden,Bellamy,Arbeola,Crouch,Kewell and they need to bring in top class players who can change a game on it's head.Liverpool simply did not have anyone on the pitch or on the bench who could have done that last night
I think last night was there for the taking but it took until the 89th minute for Liverpool to score,it might have been there for the taking but did they have anyone that could take it?
As gutted as i am i am surprised as i thought i would be more upset reason im not more upset is that i do think the future is bright and maybe this defeat will do them no harm in the long run if anything it could spur them on to greater heights
I think the main aim now has to be the Premiership,Champions League is brilliant and i hope we do as well in it next year but the Premiership is what is needed to bring Liverpool back to the top
As for the fans,I think it's a disgrace that some of them tried to get in without tickets,and too hear them on Sky Sports blaming UEFA etc is a joke,There could have been serious injury too people last night
As for the fans who did have tickets and were in the gronud i thought they were amazing and really could have done no more to spur Liverpool on

Oh dear

(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g212/punk_football_photos/busjpgig3.jpg)

Have read several reports and witness reports on the various forums, These people were not allowed in because the stadium was said to be full, hence the reaction. I take it you would not wlak away in a dignified manner if your paid hundreds of pounds for a legitimate ticket only to find out ten minutes before kick off that forgeries had stopped you taking your seat?

Rossie I would have no problem playing the same style. Its results and not the style of play that counts. The problem is that even our system of stifling an opponents game does not always work because the quality is not there e.g speed on counter attack, finishing the few chances we get.

Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 24, 2007, 02:50:04 PM
Oh dear

(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g212/punk_football_photos/busjpgig3.jpg)

:'( :'( :'( :'(

Corn, you are taking the skysports new line on this. there's no way of knowing if all of these people who charged the police lines actually had genuine tickets, and i for one very much doubt it

Quote from: corn02 on May 24, 2007, 02:50:11 PM
Have read several reports and witness reports on the various forums, These people were not allowed in because the stadium was said to be full, hence the reaction. I take it you would not wlak away in a dignified manner if your paid hundreds of pounds for a legitimate ticket only to find out ten minutes before kick off that forgeries had stopped you taking your seat?

whats the monetary cut off point for crowd disturbances these days?

Not only are you trying to justify the people who didn't get in kicking off with police, your ignoring the hundreds who knowingly bought fakes and/or jumped the turnstiles earlier.
Highly commendable

Don't be getting carried away with yourselves.  It has been stated in many reports that there were many fans with tickets who could not get in the stadium.  Who are you (uladh & Fear Rua) to say that these fans had no tickets?  The only source we have is the media and they say fans who had tickets could not get into the stadium. 

LaoisLad, this must be a first, but I agree with you, not once, not twice, but thrice in the same post. I need medication!!!!

Once

QuoteAs gutted as i am i am surprised as i thought i would be more upset reason im not more upset is that i do think the future is bright and maybe this defeat will do them no harm in the long run if anything it could spur them on to greater heights

Two

Quote
I think the main aim now has to be the Premiership,Champions League is brilliant and i hope we do as well in it next year but the Premiership is what is needed to bring Liverpool back to the top

Three

Quote
As for the fans,I think it's a disgrace that some of them tried to get in without tickets,and too hear them on Sky Sports blaming UEFA etc is a joke,There could have been serious injury too people last night

An Fear you must of been over in Athens onviously, if you know all the facts?

Uladh, I am just basing it on what I have heard so far. Obviously there would be a few trying to jump the turnstiles or whatever, Liverpool has as many tramps as every football team. However it is important to keep in mind that many people bought fakes under the presumption that they were genuine. As I already stated alot could only be identified by Ultra Violet light as reported yesterday.

My second reason for this basing although quite loose, is that if I was trying to 'blag' my way into the ground either with a fake or by hoping a fence etc, I would not be arriving to the ground at the very late stage where it is understood the route was cut off for those trying to enter. The Police stopped the flow of the crowd shortly before the commencment of the match.

Arrived back from Athens at 6 am this morning
My experience was positive up until Inzaghi's elbow intervened but anyway.
Craic was good in Athens but a lot of people were getting drunk- the singing in the squares was good fun but there was an element of aggression/racism fairly common among groups of English males. Don't think it is fair to suggest Liverpool fans are that different from other clubs but we did hear people planning to 'storm' the gates- ironically, the same people were burning the Sun and calling for Justice for the 96. Mind you the vast ( ie 95%)majority of supporters were excellent- courteous, knowledgable and funny -also, LFC has thousands of supporter from all over the world who clearly enjoyed being part of the LFC family.While I have been a supporter for many years I have to admit I don't feel part of a 'family' as I did in 91, 94 etc in Dublin.
We arrived at the stadium 3 hours before kick-off and the organisation was not good- they should let the Germans organise such things.Despite the presence of thousands of organisers and even more heavily armed macho riot police there was a lack of co-ordination and leadership.We proceeded to the entry area identified on the ticket only to be re-directed to another area 500 metres away.When we got there we were told to go back to where we had come from. We were then re-directed to a completely different area which involved a further walk of almost a kilometre.Now we were OK but we met families with elderly supporters and young children.The queues were badly managed and you could pick up a sense of real aggression against all the LFC supporters- the police were up for a confrontation and almost provoking anyone who they thought was  a trouble-maker. It took over an hour from arriving at the cordon to getting to our seats- an elderly man beside us arrived after the kick-off and told us of the tear-gas and he claimed it was indiscriminate- with the delays he said a lot of fans started to worry about missing the start and started to push -not good but understandable and throw in drink to get a potentially lethal cocktail.
As for the game, I was also surprised at how bad AC were. Eamon Dunphy's 'real deal' Kaka was largely anonymous but equally for all our possession, you couldn't see a goal coming from open play. To concede before H/T is always a bad one and some of our players were clearly nervous ( the usually wonderful Agger in particular). I thought the game was ideal for Bellamy but I will always respect Rafa's judgement and I agree with Laoislad on who should go in the summer ( including Bellamy)- we need someone with the confidence of Paul Mc Comiskey , who can come on and bring something extra to break down well-organised defences.The sentamentalist in me was pleased for Maldini- he has always been a great role-model and super player- but still disappointing.
The transport arrangements after were equally shambolic.On the specially arranged buses our driver did not know where the airport was - true!- and when he got there with our assistance he dropped us in the wrong area.Another bus had to be summonsed after 45 minutes. The colour coded pen system broke down immediately and as a result you had up to 5,000 people in disorganised queues, no public address system, a poor marquee with no facilities and , after getting through this- the same number of people on the edge of the runway at 3am local time with no information/facilities -people who were tired, grumpy and in some cases, drunk - it was amazing there wasn't more trouble or accidents so credit to the restraint of the supporters who really were treated like animals.It was so shambolic that 2 men managed to get on to our plane despite admitting they were booked on to a flight to Lverpool- eventually they were booted off.
Don't know if I will do many more day-trips to European finals unless Down are in them- however, the day in Athens, stadium and occasion were excellent-pity about the result.

Quote from: Caitlin on May 24, 2007, 03:24:09 PM
Eamon Dunphy's 'real deal' Kaka was largely anonymous

Was that apart from the Free kick he won on the edge of the box before half time and the sublimely disguised pass for the winner?

class always prevails

Quoteclass always prevails

Not always. Usually.

''but a lot of people were drunk''

so? Armagh fans are drunk at every match but even they dont expect to get in without a ticket!

''Paul McComiskey''

this is why women should be kept in the kitchen-too easily confused  :P

''dont know if i will do any more trips to Eurpoean Finals unless Down are in them''


after last night, theres probably a better chance of Down reaching one before Liverpool!

 [/quote]

Was that apart from the Free kick he won on the edge of the box before half time and the sublimely disguised pass for the winner?

class always prevails
[/quote]



There wasn't much in the 'foul' by Alonso. And he only got the chance to set up the second goal whenever Liverpool were pushing for the equaliser and Masch was taken off.

Quote from: magpie seanie on May 24, 2007, 03:33:47 PM
Not always. Usually.

More often than not though 2005 proved that a puncher always has a chance.

kaka is one of the few players in the world who can create goalscoring opportunities from thin air at thiat level. the new zidane.

Quote from: Uladh on May 24, 2007, 03:31:21 PM

Quote from: Caitlin on May 24, 2007, 03:24:09 PM
Eamon Dunphy's 'real deal' Kaka was largely anonymous

Was that apart from the Free kick he won on the edge of the box before half time and the sublimely disguised pass for the winner?

class always prevails

To be fair he was in Mascherano's pocket all night. The one time he found some space (after Mascherano was taken off near the end) he finally found the time and space to make a quality pass for Milan's second goal. Really Alonso should have been taken off ahead of Mascherano.

could anyone please tell me how Alonso didnt get booked and Mascherano did? Alonso made at least 6 fouls while Mascherano only made 1 or 2.

it was almost as bad as yer man Montella that time against United when Big Ron thought the Ref was his Uncle!

I am a fan of Kaka, but I though Maschereno did a great job on him last night, as I suspected he would. I also have great time for Gattuso, who wasn't brilliant either last night, but is great value. You just know he loves playing the game. I put him up there with other players I have great respect for, despite them doing Liverpool damage.

Quotecould anyone please tell me how Alonso didnt get booked and Mascherano did? Alonso made at least 6 fouls while Mascherano only made 1 or 2.

That's true actually. Alonso was giving away silly free-kicks all game long. The first time Mascherano slightly mis-timed a tackle he picked up a booking.

Mascherano's tackle was from behind though, and even then it was after Pirlo and co went roaring at the ref that he got carded.

Alonso always looks clumsy rather than lunging I think.

Quote from: AZOffaly on May 24, 2007, 03:45:10 PM
Mascherano's tackle was from behind though, and even then it was after Pirlo and co went roaring at the ref that he got carded.

Alonso always looks clumsy rather than lunging I think.

I thought referee's were stamping this type of sh1te out? Or is it up to each individual ref?

Quote from: corn02 on May 24, 2007, 03:15:15 PM
An Fear you must of been over in Athens onviously, if you know all the facts?
Uladh, I am just basing it on what I have heard so far. Obviously there would be a few trying to jump the turnstiles or whatever, Liverpool has as many tramps as every football team. However it is important to keep in mind that many people bought fakes under the presumption that they were genuine. As I already stated alot could only be identified by Ultra Violet light as reported yesterday.

My second reason for this basing although quite loose, is that if I was trying to 'blag' my way into the ground either with a fake or by hoping a fence etc, I would not be arriving to the ground at the very late stage where it is understood the route was cut off for those trying to enter. The Police stopped the flow of the crowd shortly before the commencment of the match.

you were not in athens, yet you seem to have them all too.

bit random but does anyone know the name of the song when maldini lifted the trophy?

the best team lost no doubt!!  and never mind alonso, gattuso had 4r5 bad tackle before he got booked an a few dodgy 1s after, if any1 shuda went last nite it shuda have been!  but wuda kept mascherano on and took alonso of maybe the second goal wudn have happened cos alonso would have been houndein kaka and the through ball to inzaghi may not have happened!  to some it up in a word...ROBBED!

No An Fear Rua I made it clear that I was just reporting stories I had heard or seen, you are the one who thinks you know everything that happened first hand.

Have come across of a few more sinister elements from last night, Liverpool fans mugging fellow fans for tickets and children getting their tickets stolen. Every club has their scummy element but Liverpool must have had their full quota of tramps in Athens.

Quote from: Syd on May 24, 2007, 09:08:41 PM
Have come across of a few more sinister elements from last night, Liverpool fans mugging fellow fans for tickets and children getting their tickets stolen. Every club has their scummy element but Liverpool must have had their full quota of tramps in Athens.

yeah, was listening to radio 5 and they had a few supporters who had tickets stolen, the ones who done it should be ashamed of themselves. people were saying they feared for their safety and were constantly weary about being mugged for the tickets.

for a start how do you know it wasn't touts who stole the tickets in order to sell them on for more money??   all people are going on is speculation here!  most of the problems happened when supporters with tickets could not get in to the ground which given th much they paid getn over there it is understandable.   there was too many fake tickets in circulation which is hardly liverpool supporters fault more of a problem for the authorites, but i guess people will use excuse to have a go at liverpool! jealousy is an awful thing

talking complete ballocks, this was from Liverpool supporters in Athens and is not speculation, fact!! nothing to do with jealously

Quote from: mooncatiii on May 24, 2007, 09:37:07 PM
for a start how do you know it wasn't touts who stole the tickets in order to sell them on for more money?? 

Yeah, they're called 'the Uefa family'

Quote from: The Real SlimShady on May 24, 2007, 03:34:56 PM
''but a lot of people were drunk''

so? Armagh fans are drunk at every match but even they dont expect to get in without a ticket!

''Paul McComiskey''

this is why women should be kept in the kitchen-too easily confused  :P

''dont know if i will do any more trips to Eurpoean Finals unless Down are in them''


after last night, theres probably a better chance of Down reaching one before Liverpool!

well u must be a woman as well then cos liverpool where by far the better team last night milan had 1 shot on target and 2 goals!! work that 1 out!   and the girl was referring to the fans being drunk having tickets and not being allowed in which given they where drunk would have mad them more angry thus them charging the gates but in my opinion the incident is getting blown out of all proportion

Quote from: Uladh on May 24, 2007, 03:38:44 PM

Quote from: magpie seanie on May 24, 2007, 03:33:47 PM
Not always. Usually.

More often than not though 2005 proved that a puncher always has a chance.

kaka is one of the few players in the world who can create goalscoring opportunities from thin air at thiat level. the new zidane.

That pass last night wasn't that brilliant! He played it nicely between the defenders,and Inzaghi timed his run perfectly, but it was not something you don't see many times a season.

His pass for the third goal in 2005, now that was exceptional!

Quote from: Square Ball on May 24, 2007, 09:43:31 PM
talking complete ballocks, this was from Liverpool supporters in Athens and is not speculation, fact!! nothing to do with jealously

mite have been frm liverpool supporters but how do you no it was liverpool supporters stole th tickets of them? how do u no it was not touts stealing them to sell them on again? 

and i have not seen any major reports so it was most likely a few isolated incidents, if it happened at all!  and its all to do with jealousy why else would you be on complainin does it affect you?

Doesnt affect me in any way thankfully, I think you may find it was more than a few isolated incidents, its been on the news and the radio, who am i to disbelieve Liverpool fans who blamed other Liverpool fans.

why do you think i am jealous, jealous of what?

have a butchers at this

http://videos.icnetwork.co.uk/icliverpool/riotLg_Prog001.wmv (http://videos.icnetwork.co.uk/icliverpool/riotLg_Prog001.wmv)

ur clip shows nothin, liverpool fans with tickets tryin to get through and being stopped thats all i can see!  what r sayin is based on third party information!  but how do u it was not touts stole the tickets? did they come say other liverpool fans stole their tickets?  i very much doubt they got mugged in daylight with thousands around the more likely story is they got pick pocketed by theives who wanted to amke a few extra pound! 

well u r obviously a united r chelsea fan r sumthin stupid like that and r envious of liverpools record in europe and r tryin discredit liverpools fans by spreading accusations!

Quote from: mooncatiii on May 24, 2007, 11:00:35 PM
ur clip shows nothin, liverpool fans with tickets tryin to get through and being stopped thats all i can see!  what r sayin is based on third party information!  but how do u it was not touts stole the tickets? did they come say other liverpool fans stole their tickets?  i very much doubt they got mugged in daylight with thousands around the more likely story is they got pick pocketed by theives who wanted to amke a few extra pound! 

well u r obviously a united r chelsea fan r sumthin stupid like that and r envious of liverpools record in europe and r tryin discredit liverpools fans by spreading accusations!

Shut the f**k up and stop making a fool of yourself

fool of myself? what u on about!!!! my point is simply people r comin on herre a slatin liverpool fans on an issue they no nothin about, sayin tht a fair share of the fans stole their tickets of others!  be serious! if anything like that happened it was obviously an isolated incident! 

I doubt Square Ball is jealous of anything what a ridiculous thing to say to anyone,your not in the school playground now fella
And whats with all the u u u  and r r can you not spell YOU and OR?

Square Ball, I didn't see a whole lot in that clip that could put the blame on the fans? It just looked like people with tickets being very frustarted?

But he's hardly jealous of anything corn?

resultin to personal slags now R U?  if UD the intelligence 2 NO U would NO that i was writin like this as it is quicker u f**king tit!!  and climb out of square balls ass will U! at least he has an point r an argument to make U R  just a w**ker with no point

Jealous? No, was not responding to that argument. I just viewed the video and I am wondering did I miss a ticxket being stolen or something, I am quiet tired like.

You're wasting your time lads. Its always someone elses fault.

magpie my point is if it did happen it was a few isloated incidents and not th like is being implied by some people!  and how do we know it was fans and not touts, the simple answer is we dont!  so until there is some proof either way stop throwin around accusations, which in truth no1 on here knows anything about!

square ball id expect that point of view from you anyway given you're a manc!  the jealous bit is obvious, 5 european cups and 18 leagues! if u wana talk about fans and their behaviour what about united fans in lille and roma??  now there is proof of thuggery amongst fans it was clear on tv for every1 to see!  thugs and prawn sandwiches that old trafford worst atmosphere in the league in that place

Stupid reply Magpie.
The reason for problems can be blamed on a few reasons:

- terrible policing and stewarding by the locals

- Terrible organisation outside the ground i.e instead of turnstiles having gates where people can rush in

- the sc**bag element that exist with Liverpool fans, and believe me there is a big element of it.

- Uefas handling of tickets combined with Liverpools distribution.

Every side has to take a part of the blame.

Quote from: corn02 on May 25, 2007, 12:08:17 AM
Stupid reply Magpie.
The reason for problems can be blamed on a few reasons:

- terrible policing and stewarding by the locals

- Terrible organisation outside the ground i.e instead of turnstiles having gates where people can rush in

- the sc**bag element that exist with Liverpool fans, and believe me there is a big element of it.

- Uefas handling of tickets combined with Liverpools distribution.

Every side has to take a part of the blame.

From what I've read as well, all of the above seems to have been the case. Apparently there were serious crushes when supporters were being held up at those gates. Thankfully no one was badly hurt.

The so-called "fans" robbing fellow supporters really is disgusting though. Utter scum.

Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 24, 2007, 02:50:04 PM
Oh dear

(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g212/punk_football_photos/busjpgig3.jpg)

Did you expect them to do the paint-job overnight?

I'd expect that most sides would have something like that pre-ordered.

Apparently some screen-shots of the web page the official site was going to put up in the event of Liverpool winning got leaked also, much to the mocking delight of various rival supporters. As if United or Chelsea wouldn't have had all that stuff waiting and ready to be posted two minutes after the end of the game.

Quote from: corn02 on May 25, 2007, 12:08:17 AM
Stupid reply Magpie.
The reason for problems can be blamed on a few reasons:

- terrible policing and stewarding by the locals

- Terrible organisation outside the ground i.e instead of turnstiles having gates where people can rush in

- the sc**bag element that exist with Liverpool fans, and believe me there is a big element of it.

- Uefas handling of tickets combined with Liverpools distribution.

Every side has to take a part of the blame.

Spot on Corn. UEFA cannot brush all these things under the carpet. I've been at a few Chelsea Euro aways and you do get treated like animals on these trips. However there is NEVER any punishment given to the host Club. Organisation in England is a diffierant league to the remainder of Europe.

However, and you do state it, some of the Liverpool fans take a lot of responsability for what happened. What in particular irks me, and to be fair it's not a common opinion of the Pool fans on here, is that the Liverpool fans refuse to take any blame or responsability. They have a persecution complex that, dare I say it is getting dangerous.

Agree 100% with Corn.

Quote from: Norf Tyrone on May 25, 2007, 01:33:39 AM

Quote from: corn02 on May 25, 2007, 12:08:17 AM
Stupid reply Magpie.
The reason for problems can be blamed on a few reasons:

- terrible policing and stewarding by the locals

- Terrible organisation outside the ground i.e instead of turnstiles having gates where people can rush in

- the sc**bag element that exist with Liverpool fans, and believe me there is a big element of it.

- Uefas handling of tickets combined with Liverpools distribution.

Every side has to take a part of the blame.

Spot on Corn. UEFA cannot brush all these things under the carpet. I've been at a few Chelsea Euro aways and you do get treated like animals on these trips. However there is NEVER any punishment given to the host Club. Organisation in England is a diffierant league to the remainder of Europe.

However, and you do state it, some of the Liverpool fans take a lot of responsability for what happened. What in particular irks me, and to be fair it's not a common opinion of the Pool fans on here, is that the Liverpool fans refuse to take any blame or responsability. They have a persecution complex that, dare I say it is getting dangerous.

Agree 100% with Corn.

Check out some of the threads on this forum: http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=f4de4e8d76f8bab668e730988c2bed9c&topic=179084.40 (http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=f4de4e8d76f8bab668e730988c2bed9c&topic=179084.40)

There are plenty of people expressing their disgust at the dirtbags who did the mugging and urging their identification and punishment.

I think you're overstating the "danger" of the so-called "persecution complex". There are always going to be Liverpool fans who automatically blame any misbehaviour on the part of fellow supporters on someone else, just as there will always be United fans who automatically blame and tarnish all Liverpool fans because some idiotic teenager smashed a sink at Old Trafford or threw a piece of shit at a United fan at Anfield. Denial and rationalization of the acts of one's own group, and demonization of the other, is a fact of life in a hell of lot more than sports. You see much of the same when it comes to discussions of things like Northern Ireland politics on this very board.

Quote from: corn02 on May 25, 2007, 12:08:17 AM

- the sc**bag element that exist with Liverpool fans, and believe me there is a big element of it.

i don't think their is that big of a sc**bag element.  they r widely regarded as one of the best groups of supporters in the game.  any incidents like this that went on was a small isolated incident!   i mean single figures or maybe at the out set low teens out of 50 000 u r always goin to get a few wasters!  every team has them none more so than the united fans  who come sing about heysel and hillsborough at any opportunity r who where involved in trouble in rome and lille and then there is chelsea and the headhunters! every footbasll club has a small minority like this and liverpools in relation to the many fans they have is a very small element

Interesting article in the Times - from a Liverpool fan's perspective!

QuoteAll over Athens in the early hours of yesterday morning, small groups of Liverpool fans were meeting up and commiserating with each other. There were a lot of hugs, rueful smiles and the same words exchanged again and again. "It's all right. We only lost. Nobody died."

Three hours after the game, Liverpool fans were much more ebullient than the AC Milan supporters. Scouse laughter was ringing around the bars of the Greek capital as thoughts turned to home and next season. Memories of Hillsborough, where defeats on the pitch were put into perspective in the most horrible manner, ensure that there will be few tears after Liverpool lose a mere match.

But yesterday morning there was little to laugh about. William Gaillard, Uefa's mouthpiece, has laid the blame for the chaos outside the Olympic Stadium squarely on the shoulders of Liverpool fans. Uefa does not need the help of anyone to make a mess of an event, but the controversy throws up a number of questions for Liverpool supporters and, sadly, gives ammunition to those whose version of events in Sheffield on April 15, 1989 involves ticketless fans storming the gates.

Yes, some people wearing "Hillsborough Justice Campaign" badges probably rushed police lines yesterday in the quest to get into the ground. On the face of it, that would appear to be a crass conflict of ideologies. However, there are few parallels between Wednesday in Athens and that dreadful Saturday in Yorkshire.

In 1989, there were plenty of tickets available for the FA Cup semi-final against Nottingham Forest. Lord Justice Taylor's report into the tragedy found that the design of the terracing was fatally flawed and that South Yorkshire police made a series of mistakes that led to the 96 deaths.

Liverpool fans were not to blame for the disaster and those who, like me, stepped over dead bodies that day resent any suggestion that we were the guilty parties. Sadly, few people remember the Taylor Report. They do recall the stories of drunken, ticketless fans that dominated the media in the aftermath of the disaster, however. The stories were untrue, but people still believe the ludicrous lies that had us stealing from our own dead.

Athens was very different. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the ticket allocation – and few could argue that 17,000 was enough to satisfy Liverpool fans' demand – there were people at the stadium who were determined to get into the match by whatever means necessary.

In recent years, there have been a number of incidents – mostly unreported – where Liverpool supporters have charged turnstiles in massive numbers, setting up dangerous situations.

At Stamford Bridge in the Champions League semi-final two years ago, a very dangerous crush ensued when Scousers broke through the gates. Away to PSV Eindhoven in the quarter-final this season, there were frightening moments outside the ground and the behaviour of ticketless fans provoked some harsh exchanges on the internet forums.

It is a problem that will not go away. "Bunking-in" is not just the last resort of the desperate fan; there are a substantial minority among Liverpool's travelling support who see getting into a game without paying as a badge of honour. A number of books written about the experiences of Liverpool fans in the 1970s and 1980s have mythologised bunking-in and the younger generation, seeking to emulate their elders, have little compunction about sneaking into a ground and occupying someone else's seat.

Mostly, they are young Scousers – and those with out-of-town accents and tickets who try to get their seats back can find themselves in unpleasant confrontations.

As the game moves upmarket and seeks to keep its traditional constituency outside the stadium while the corporate fans feast like kings inside, bunking-in will become a bigger problem.

Some Liverpool supporters even see it as a guerrilla act, the ultimate revenge of the disenfranchised fan. Priced out of the game? That's OK, it's free to the bunkers and they have the added satisfaction of making sure that they are not putting any money in the filthy-rich coffers of football's billionaires. It is a class war statement for some.

But what they forget is that such behaviour gives the police licence to crack heads – and invariably, like on Wednesday night, it's not the Scallies and bunkers who suffer. Having seen their lines swamped earlier in the day, the police were taking no chances with a second humiliation and took out their frustration on people with tickets.

That horde swarming over the gates are the flip side of the fanaticism we saw at Anfield against Barcelona and Chelsea. The bunkers want to get into the ground and all the police in Athens could not stop them. It might take a disaster to do that.

If it does, then it will be a very different tragedy to Hillsborough. Because then we – the men and boys whose desperation to get into the game makes us take wild risks – will have to shoulder the blame. And that's too high a price to pay to see a football match.

For all those who called liveropol supporters "scumbags" etc etc take note of this, after the final whistle on wed nite they where still there in their thousands to sing and support their team...and thsi was recognised by the milan players who came over to applaud them!!   that is what liverpool supporters are about not the very very small minority who allegedly go about stealin tickets! 

You're right! In fact - I might start supporting the Liverpool support next season.

Feck this following football teams.... I'm a supporter of supporters from now on!  ::)

you do that big man

Quote from: mooncatiii on May 25, 2007, 12:43:13 PM
For all those who called liveropol supporters "scumbags" etc etc take note of this, after the final whistle on wed nite they where still there in their thousands to sing and support their team...and thsi was recognised by the milan players who came over to applaud them!!   that is what liverpool supporters are about not the very very small minority who allegedly go about stealin tickets! 

True, but the fellows who mugged their fellow supporters for tickets are complete and utter scumbags. Beyond one or two usual suspects on this board, no one would generalize beyond that.

Quote from: Goats Do Shave on May 25, 2007, 11:22:57 AM
Interesting article in the Times - from a Liverpool fan's perspective!

QuoteAll over Athens in the early hours of yesterday morning, small groups of Liverpool fans were meeting up and commiserating with each other. There were a lot of hugs, rueful smiles and the same words exchanged again and again. "It's all right. We only lost. Nobody died."

Three hours after the game, Liverpool fans were much more ebullient than the AC Milan supporters. Scouse laughter was ringing around the bars of the Greek capital as thoughts turned to home and next season. Memories of Hillsborough, where defeats on the pitch were put into perspective in the most horrible manner, ensure that there will be few tears after Liverpool lose a mere match.

But yesterday morning there was little to laugh about. William Gaillard, Uefa's mouthpiece, has laid the blame for the chaos outside the Olympic Stadium squarely on the shoulders of Liverpool fans. Uefa does not need the help of anyone to make a mess of an event, but the controversy throws up a number of questions for Liverpool supporters and, sadly, gives ammunition to those whose version of events in Sheffield on April 15, 1989 involves ticketless fans storming the gates.

Yes, some people wearing "Hillsborough Justice Campaign" badges probably rushed police lines yesterday in the quest to get into the ground. On the face of it, that would appear to be a crass conflict of ideologies. However, there are few parallels between Wednesday in Athens and that dreadful Saturday in Yorkshire.

In 1989, there were plenty of tickets available for the FA Cup semi-final against Nottingham Forest. Lord Justice Taylor's report into the tragedy found that the design of the terracing was fatally flawed and that South Yorkshire police made a series of mistakes that led to the 96 deaths.

Liverpool fans were not to blame for the disaster and those who, like me, stepped over dead bodies that day resent any suggestion that we were the guilty parties. Sadly, few people remember the Taylor Report. They do recall the stories of drunken, ticketless fans that dominated the media in the aftermath of the disaster, however. The stories were untrue, but people still believe the ludicrous lies that had us stealing from our own dead.

Athens was very different. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the ticket allocation – and few could argue that 17,000 was enough to satisfy Liverpool fans' demand – there were people at the stadium who were determined to get into the match by whatever means necessary.

In recent years, there have been a number of incidents – mostly unreported – where Liverpool supporters have charged turnstiles in massive numbers, setting up dangerous situations.

At Stamford Bridge in the Champions League semi-final two years ago, a very dangerous crush ensued when Scousers broke through the gates. Away to PSV Eindhoven in the quarter-final this season, there were frightening moments outside the ground and the behaviour of ticketless fans provoked some harsh exchanges on the internet forums.

It is a problem that will not go away. "Bunking-in" is not just the last resort of the desperate fan; there are a substantial minority among Liverpool's travelling support who see getting into a game without paying as a badge of honour. A number of books written about the experiences of Liverpool fans in the 1970s and 1980s have mythologised bunking-in and the younger generation, seeking to emulate their elders, have little compunction about sneaking into a ground and occupying someone else's seat.

Mostly, they are young Scousers – and those with out-of-town accents and tickets who try to get their seats back can find themselves in unpleasant confrontations.

As the game moves upmarket and seeks to keep its traditional constituency outside the stadium while the corporate fans feast like kings inside, bunking-in will become a bigger problem.

Some Liverpool supporters even see it as a guerrilla act, the ultimate revenge of the disenfranchised fan. Priced out of the game? That's OK, it's free to the bunkers and they have the added satisfaction of making sure that they are not putting any money in the filthy-rich coffers of football's billionaires. It is a class war statement for some.

But what they forget is that such behaviour gives the police licence to crack heads – and invariably, like on Wednesday night, it's not the Scallies and bunkers who suffer. Having seen their lines swamped earlier in the day, the police were taking no chances with a second humiliation and took out their frustration on people with tickets.

That horde swarming over the gates are the flip side of the fanaticism we saw at Anfield against Barcelona and Chelsea. The bunkers want to get into the ground and all the police in Athens could not stop them. It might take a disaster to do that.

If it does, then it will be a very different tragedy to Hillsborough. Because then we – the men and boys whose desperation to get into the game makes us take wild risks – will have to shoulder the blame. And that's too high a price to pay to see a football match.

That is something I had not heard before. It shouldn't be that hard for stadium authorities to organize and deal with though.

I was there. I saw about 7/10 incidents of liverpool fans (which I am) stealing tickets from other Liverpool fans as they took them out to enter the ground. A couple were taken from women, one of whom was pushed to the ground. Disgusting.
Initially I saw a liverpool fan nick a ticket off a Greeek tout and I though fair play...then nicking tickets of our own fans started.

It was disgusting. I was in a way hoping that some scally nicked my ticket so I could get a slap at him.

That element exists - arguably within EVERY club but its still disgusting to see.

I would however say (and not going into detail as I am still knackered from being left to sleep on concrete outside the ground for about 4 hours and for another 2 hours in some tent at the airport) that there were serious flaws with the organisation. Turnstiles have their faults but work.

So both parties are to blame.

The statement from the UEFA president helps no one.

Quote from: Glensman on May 25, 2007, 01:27:52 PM
I was there. I saw about 7/10 incidents of liverpool fans (which I am) stealing tickets from other Liverpool fans as they took them out to enter the ground. A couple were taken from women, one of whom was pushed to the ground. Disgusting.
Initially I saw a liverpool fan nick a ticket off a Greeek tout and I though fair play...then nicking tickets of our own fans started.

Thats horrible it's time they brought out some sort of pin code technology for tickets, it would stop that crack and make things alot harder for touts.

J70 no doubt in that those who nicked tickets of other fans are total scumbags and it is they who should be classed as scumbags not liverpool fans in general!  

what happened to the ticketing policy from the world cup where all tickets chips in them and the policy was no chip no entry!  from what i have heard the stadium is not equipped to deal with such crowds entering at once,  better organisation and turnstiles would have eliminted alot of problems!  63000 is not a big enough stadium anyway in my opinion should be at least 70-75000 for such events anything less just creates more problems!

Quote from: mooncatiii on May 25, 2007, 12:43:13 PM
For all those who called liveropol supporters "scumbags" etc etc take note of this, after the final whistle on wed nite they where still there in their thousands to sing and support their team...and thsi was recognised by the milan players who came over to applaud them!!   that is what liverpool supporters are about not the very very small minority who allegedly go about stealin tickets! 

Just because i follow Liverpool does not mean you cannot comment on scummy behaviour from their fans.I follow the team/club not the people of Liverpool, i do not care if they "steal hubcaps" "eat out of bins" etc as those tools on the United thread say. I would have to say it is a minority but there is no excuse for some of that behaviour. I lived in Liverpool for a few years and would have to say there is a real persecution mentality amongst them,if someones cat dies they are out in the streets with their black armbands on singing "You will never walk alone".........

Quote from: Syd on May 25, 2007, 01:45:10 PM

Quote from: mooncatiii on May 25, 2007, 12:43:13 PM
For all those who called liveropol supporters "scumbags" etc etc take note of this, after the final whistle on wed nite they where still there in their thousands to sing and support their team...and thsi was recognised by the milan players who came over to applaud them!!   that is what liverpool supporters are about not the very very small minority who allegedly go about stealin tickets! 

Just because i follow Liverpool does not mean you cannot comment on scummy behaviour from their fans.I follow the team/club not the people of Liverpool, i do not care if they "steal hubcaps" "eat out of bins" etc as those tools on the United thread say. I would have to say it is a minority but there is no excuse for some of that behaviour. I lived in Liverpool for a few years and would have to say there is a real persecution mentality amongst them,if someones cat dies they are out in the streets with their black armbands on singing "You will never walk alone".........

Totally agree with Syd on that
Did anyone see the fool on Sky News where he was acutally boasting that he rammed the gates and got in,The reporter asked was he sorry for his actions and the gobshite says no that it was Uefa's fault
So next time you don't have a ticket for a FA Cup Final or All Ireland Final just force your way thru take someone else's seat that they have paid good money for and are now standing outside the ground unable to get in because the stadium is full,and then blame it all on the Uefa or Gaa or whatever sporting body it may be because sure how could it be your fault

Syd i have not tried to excuse that type of behaviour my point al along is about has been a generalisation of liverpool fans being scumbags! which is harsh considering it was only a small minority that was involved in stealin tickets!  as for them barging the gates, well some blame goes with the fans but mostly lies with th amateur organisation frm uefa, police etc!

they could do with takin a leaf from the GAA's book i.e when matches r staged at croke any1 without a ticket does not even get near the ground!

Quote from: AZOffaly on May 24, 2007, 03:14:41 PM
LaoisLad, this must be a first, but I agree with you, not once, not twice, but thrice in the same post. I need medication!!!!

Once

QuoteAs gutted as i am i am surprised as i thought i would be more upset reason im not more upset is that i do think the future is bright and maybe this defeat will do them no harm in the long run if anything it could spur them on to greater heights

Two

Quote
I think the main aim now has to be the Premiership,Champions League is brilliant and i hope we do as well in it next year but the Premiership is what is needed to bring Liverpool back to the top

Three

Quote
As for the fans,I think it's a disgrace that some of them tried to get in without tickets,and too hear them on Sky Sports blaming UEFA etc is a joke,There could have been serious injury too people last night

Ah your only buttering me up because your afraid Laois will beat Offaly on sunday ;) :D

Quoteas for them barging the gates, well some blame goes with the fans but mostly lies with th amateur organisation frm uefa, police etc!

Pardon my ignorance but I fail to see how ticketless fans trying to ram the gates to get in is Uefa or the polices fault.

Quote from: magpie seanie on May 25, 2007, 02:06:25 PM

Quoteas for them barging the gates, well some blame goes with the fans but mostly lies with th amateur organisation frm uefa, police etc!

Pardon my ignorance but I fail to see how ticketless fans trying to ram the gates to get in is Uefa or the polices fault.

You're confusing two different issues. Obviously anybody who charged gates/nicked tickets/used forgeries etc is 100% to blame for their own actions and should be dealt with accordingly. However the actions of UEFA/FIFA in allocating only 12000 tickets to each team and then not employing any type of id check/anti-forgery measures/stewarding etc etc etc where incompetent at best and probably negligent.

With respect Sammy, that is not what the previous poster said. The clue is in the word "mostly".

Quote from: magpie seanie on May 25, 2007, 02:41:35 PM
With respect Sammy, that is not what the previous poster said. The clue is in the word "mostly".

I would agree that UEFA where mostly to blame. If they had done there job properly, they would have chosen a ground with a reasonable capacity, there wouldn't have been forged tickets, there wouldn't have been scallies at the ground without tickets, there would have been proper stewarding to check tickets, the police wouldn't have been arresting and tear-gassing people who had genuine tickets and were pissed off because they were being stopped from seeing the match etc etc etc . All of those things are 100% the fault of UEFA.

QuoteI would agree that UEFA where mostly to blame. If they had done there job properly, they would have chosen a ground with a reasonable capacity, there wouldn't have been forged tickets, there wouldn't have been scallies at the ground without tickets, there would have been proper stewarding to check tickets, the police wouldn't have been arresting and tear-gassing people who had genuine tickets and were pissed off because they were being stopped from seeing the match etc etc etc . All of those things are 100% the fault of UEFA.

I was discussing the specific phenomenon of ramming the gates which seems to be commonplace at Liverpool away Euro games (as per the eye witness report of the Liverpool fan) but you are referring to the generality of the situation. Anyway, as it goes, I'll answer you.

The ground had a 70k capacity. Only Wembley and the Nou Camp are significantly bigger. Forged tickets - how can this be UEFA's fault? Scallies at the ground without tickets - how can this be UEFA's fault?

Quote from: magpie seanie on May 25, 2007, 03:13:27 PMI was discussing the specific phenomenon of ramming the gates which seems to be commonplace at Liverpool away Euro games (as per the eye witness report of the Liverpool fan) but you are referring to the generality of the situation. Anyway, as it goes, I'll answer you.

I ansered that in my previous post. I agree 100% that the sc**bag element should be dealt with.

Quote from: magpie seanie on May 25, 2007, 03:13:27 PM
The ground had a 70k capacity. Only Wembley and the Nou Camp are significantly bigger.

The ground has a 60K capacity of which 24K went to fans (12K to each team) and the rest went to sponsors/families/UEFA reps/hangers-on/etc etc etc

Quote from: magpie seanie on May 25, 2007, 03:13:27 PM
Forged tickets - how can this be UEFA's fault?

2 reasons, firstly they made no attempt to put any anti-forgery methods into the tickets (FFS even the IFA use holograms and UV pictures on their tickets), secondly they had totally inadequate stewarding and nobody to check whether the tickets were genuine or not (a 5live reporter claims that people where allowed through after the waved some photocopied pieces of paper!!!!)

Quote from: magpie seanie on May 25, 2007, 03:13:27 PM
Scallies at the ground without tickets - how can this be UEFA's fault?

It is UEFA's responsibility to police the ground and ticketing. It would have been very easy to put a ring round the stadium and only let people onto the stadium concourse if they had a valid ticket, as is done at most big matches. There should then have been turnstyles and a further ticket check before entering the ground, rather then just gates that people could wander through. UEFA did neither of these things, so allowing any fcukwit who wanted to get through.

Quote from: magpie seanie on May 25, 2007, 03:13:27 PM

QuoteI would agree that UEFA where mostly to blame. If they had done there job properly, they would have chosen a ground with a reasonable capacity, there wouldn't have been forged tickets, there wouldn't have been scallies at the ground without tickets, there would have been proper stewarding to check tickets, the police wouldn't have been arresting and tear-gassing people who had genuine tickets and were pissed off because they were being stopped from seeing the match etc etc etc . All of those things are 100% the fault of UEFA.

I was discussing the specific phenomenon of ramming the gates which seems to be commonplace at Liverpool away Euro games (as per the eye witness report of the Liverpool fan) but you are referring to the generality of the situation. Anyway, as it goes, I'll answer you.

The ground had a 70k capacity. Only Wembley and the Nou Camp are significantly bigger. Forged tickets - how can this be UEFA's fault? Scallies at the ground without tickets - how can this be UEFA's fault?

Overlooking the fact of Man U's troubles in Lille in a similiar situation when their fans were getting crushed up against the fence at the front as many of their supporters had gotten into the wrong section either by themselves or though being shepherded into the wrong area by stewards. Something that is familiar to any Liverpool fan after Hillsborough.

Firstly the stadium in Athens isn't even a football ground. It's an athletics stadium. It has no turnstiles. The security screening at the ground was utterly shambolic with many people getting in with forged tickets (some knowing they were forged, many not knowing) and others getting in with folded up UEFA flyers and even one chap getting in by flashing his bank card. Of course this led to the ground being full and security stopping many fans outside the ground with valid tickets from getting in. This only added to the tension outside the ground and throw in a few gangs of drunken scallies who were willing to try and and push their way in or even rob tickets and you've got a recipe for disaster.

However had UEFA and the Greek police organised the security around the stadium properly and had a proper perimeter ring in place then nobody without a valid ticket should have got within 500 yards of the stadium let alone be allowed to mingle right outside the stadium gates.

As for the scumbags willing to try and rob tickets they deserve a good kicking frankly.

Sorry guys - no-one is saying that UEFA/police didn't make f**k ups (they usually do, as evidenced in Lille - agreed). My point was that the pricks that rammed the gates were to blame for ramming the gates - not UEFA. This was all I was contesting with mooncat.

I don't think there is much more to be gained here lads. I think it is generally accepted that some Liverpool fans behaved absolutely dispicabley. I think it is also accepted that UEFA/The Stadium Authorities were poorly organised.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of UEFA and the Athens messups, there is no getting away from the fact that it is absolutely, totally and completely wrong and disgusting to storm the gates of a stadium like that, especially when Liverpool have the spectre of Hillsborough always hovering over them.

Liverpool are a great club, and the huge majority of their fans are generous to opposition, knowledgeable and good craic. However there is a sizeable number of people who follow the club, who I would say are thugs. I am not going to labour the point that 'all clubs have ...' as that sometimes looks like trying to justify something, and I would not attempt to do that with any of the incidents we are speaking about here.

I say that as a Liverpool fan of 25 years and more.

Hear hear AZOffaly.

Completely agree.

100% correct  (as always) AZ

I think everyone can agree there was blame on both sides.I do agree with Magpie Seanie though it wasn't Uefa who made the thugs run at the gates and rob tickets off people etc

I think we have talked this to death.Will i lock the thread? If anyone thinks i should please say so otherwise your welcome to keep going over the same argument over and over again

Quote from: corn02 on May 24, 2007, 11:25:56 PM
Square Ball, I didn't see a whole lot in that clip that could put the blame on the fans? It just looked like people with tickets being very frustarted?

that clip wasnt to aportion any blame, it was to shoow what they were subjected to, and that a lot of fans who were refused entry had tickets, thats why it was posted in a seperate post.

as to being jealous of Liverpool acheivements Mooncatiii, dont think so, I have never said that all Liverpool fans were scumbags, far from it, but the behaviour of some of the fans, i use this term losely, was a disgrace, their own have said it. all teams have an element of balloxes attached to them.

I think this thread has run its course lads, its turning into "he said" "you said".......

Quote from: Syd on May 25, 2007, 07:12:34 PM
I think this thread has run its course lads, its turning into "he said" "you said".......

I agree
Come back next year for Champions League Final 2008 Moscow May 24th Offical Thread Liverpool v  ???

;)