I thought this was worthy of a conversation here. Congratulations to Kerry on beating Antrim and getting up to Division 1B for 2016. It's a huge achievement for them, especially after coming badly unstuck against Offaly in the same playoff last year.
Now, I write this from the perspective of someone who believes Offaly should have gone down last year, and not had a second chance, and I believe Kerry should have already been up (and probably coming back down) but what does this mean for Antrim. I see some fairly caustic comments on social media, and it's obvious there's a bit of soul searching going on. I'd hate Antrim to drop down the rankings and become a perennial division 2 type team. Fair play to Kerry, it's great to see, but Antrim need to come straight back up I think.
What's the view from the Glensmen here?
Can't disagree with any of that. Fair play to Kerry and its certainly not were Antrim want to be but that's the level of hurling they are playing so can't argue. Go to the Antrim page to see the finger pointing.
The finger pointing is fecking useless, Antrim haven't won a game this year and go into the Championship as a relegated team. we've won recently Junior intermediate and senior club hurling at all Ireland levels. We've just recently won the B championships at schools!
Antrim have the talent they just need someone to unite the clubs for starters, generate some fecking belief and have committed players/mentors and a bitta financial backing to put in an actual real 3/4 year plan. Whatever reasons for certain players not playing or being overlooked needs fixed...
Very frustrating considering the potential Antrim have and now very embarrassing that social media (facebook/twitter) is taking over and influencing peoples views!!
Was speaking to the referee at our game v Loughgiel yesterday and I mentioned that things have got worse these past ten years between the North Antrim clubs.
Would like to see a Antrim man manage the county, preferably a Belfast man that won't buy into the petty stuff that goes on between certain clubs
Nothing beats a good bit of finger pointing
Apart from Watson (who's getting on a bit), who are the players not playing that would make a real difference? - genuine question.
People over emphasis the talent available in Antrim, it's easy to just say "the talent is there", well I don't think it is, the results don't lie and we always seem to think a change of manager will bring about massive change in fortunes, well it hasn't and it won't. And that is no slur on the players that are there, they are working hard by all accounts, they just aren't of a good enough standard at present.
Junior & Intermediate club Ireland wins don't mean shit when it comes to inter county, totally different ball game.
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 13, 2015, 01:26:31 PM
People over emphasis the talent available in Antrim, it's easy to just say "the talent is there", well I don't think it is, the results don't lie and we always seem to think a change of manager will bring about massive change in fortunes, well it hasn't and it won't. And that is no slur on the players that are there, they are working hard by all accounts, they just aren't of a good enough standard at present.
Senior, Junior & Intermediate club Ireland wins don't mean shit when it comes to inter county, totally different ball game.
Fixed that
It's bad times AZ. The only manager who seems to have been able to get something out of us this last ten years or so has been Dinny Cahill.
We have those u21s who got to the final two years ago so were hoping they could develop or be developed but this is a real hammer blow.
At the minute it just seems the heart isn't there.
There will be people who point fingers at Ryan and the Loughgiel contingent but in my view he's not far of best 15. Like I said barring Dinny Cahill's terms it's been a while since we've been competitive.
[EDIT] Kerry have improved greatly too so fair play to them. We had a lot of bother with them a few years ago when Shane Brick was scoring a lot and destroying us so it's not the first time they've beaten us.
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 13, 2015, 01:26:31 PM
People over emphasis the talent available in Antrim, it's easy to just say "the talent is there", well I don't think it is, the results don't lie and we always seem to think a change of manager will bring about massive change in fortunes, well it hasn't and it won't. And that is no slur on the players that are there, they are working hard by all accounts, they just aren't of a good enough standard at present.
Junior & Intermediate club Ireland wins don't mean shit when it comes to inter county, totally different ball game.
I agree. There is some talent..but nowhere near enough.
+1
Currently I'd say that we have 6-8 hurlers who IMO would be up to Div1 standard hurling. By that I mean players who can make things happen and take the game to top quality opposition. That's not to slight the remaining panelists. They have worked their balls off over the winter and deserve all the respect for representing their county with a high level of commitment, but we are where we are for a reason.
I'd love to know where this untapped talent resides that's more than capable of playing Div1 hurling. We haven't competed well in minor for quite a few years. Finding county coaches that aren't already stretched in the clubs is a problem. A take it or leave it attitude amongst the young playing population towards competing properly at county level is evident also. Forward play in Antrim hasn't been great this past few years. 10 years ago is 10 years ago. Living in the now, I don't believe a new manager would extract much more from the players available. Until we acknowledge and deal with reality things are not going to change
I read the Irish News today, and I thought Kevin Ryan's comments were unhelpful to say the least. Questioning the players 'balls' was over the top in my view, and that's the sort of self serving stuff that loses dressing rooms.
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 13, 2015, 01:26:31 PM
People over emphasis the talent available in Antrim, it's easy to just say "the talent is there", well I don't think it is, the results don't lie and we always seem to think a change of manager will bring about massive change in fortunes, well it hasn't and it won't. And that is no slur on the players that are there, they are working hard by all accounts, they just aren't of a good enough standard at present.
Junior & Intermediate club Ireland wins don't mean shit when it comes to inter county, totally different ball game.
Nail on head here.
We have a grossly over-inflated view of our abilities and our place in the hurling world.
Club titles are one thing - inter-county is a totally different ball game.
In response to "the talent is there", while I have been based outside the County for a long time now, I just don't see it. The club game is struggling IMHO. You have to go back to 1986 before a team other than Loughgiel, Cushendall, Dunloy or Rossa (3 times) won a senior championship. Does anyone seriously think the County final will be won by anyone other than Loughgiel or Cushendall this year?
"Get the best players playing". What does this mean? People either commit or they do not. Personality clashes happen in every county. Most seem to get on with it. We don't seem able to.
"Get an Antrim manager who understands the county". IMHO the divisions in Antrim are such that we need an outsider if we are to have any hope of pulling together.
Moreover, administration has (as always) been an issue. I have no doubt that there are extremely "good" reasons why Casement has not been started and Dunsilly not been finished. It certainly is not any one individual's fault. However, both are symptomatic of the (historic) problems in Antrim.
To be honest, the only light at the end of the tunnel is that (it appears from a distance) that structures are being put in place at underage level that have the potential to bring about an improvement (development squads etc). We have not been even remotely competitive at minor since the team of the mid 2000s that now provides the bulk of our senior team. Before that small bubble, we were equally uncompetitive save for a couple of years in mid 1990s. And by uncompetitive, I'm talking about 20 and 30 point hidings.
Surely to God if we are ever going to improve, it has to start with underage rather than having an endless debate about x not being picked for the county or an "outsider" not "understanding" the politics of Antrim club hurling.
Quote from: clootfromthe21 on April 13, 2015, 04:24:43 PM
Before that small bubble, we were equally uncompetitive save for a couple of years in mid 1990s. And by uncompetitive, I'm talking about 20 and 30 point hidings.
And that is the truth. Plenty of good, well respected club hurlers from Antrim in the past also represented Antrim and didn't fair any better (and manys a time worse) than the current group who represent the county at the minute. There's nothing new going on here that I can see.
"We the Antrim senior hurling panel fully support our manager Kevin Ryan" a statement, released by the county board last night, read.
"We take full responsibility for our recent performances. Our relegation has hurt no one more than this group of players. We will strive to improve and move forward as proud Antrim hurlers towards championship."
Fair play to the players - usually it's the manager's fault so this is a refreshing approach.
I was down in Kerry at the weekend visiting my uncle in hospital and got to talking GAA, what with their club Ardfert being the All-Ireland intermediate champions. He was particularly chuffed because Ardfert is a primarily a hurling club and he told me that there are a handful of clubs for whom hurling is king. For him, this explained Kerry's failings in inter-county hurling. The relationship between those clubs was like those between feuding hillbillies, constantly fighting over little battles that would be forgotten by more cosmopolitan folk and being unable to see the bigger picture (this is purely a sporting observation, no commentary on the worldliness of the people in general). I didn't argue with him - he's always the smartest guy in the room and doesn't he know it - but it seems a little pat to me.
You often hear that when counties aren't going well, or achieving their perceived potential. I know folk in Antrim think there's an unhealthy atmosphere among some clubs, and Galway in the 90s was poisonous at some stages too. (Still is some would say). Laois used to cut each others throats as well, Camross and Castletown would slaughter each other if they could. I think in Kerry, the truth is the county board has little interest in hurling, and because of it's isolated nature (I think there's only 2 clubs south of Mid Kerry) you need to get a great crop to be competitive. They don't have great crops, and the county board didn't even enter them in the Munster Championship so it's hard to build on nothing. This result is huge for them, and maybe they could go on and win a Christy Ring as well.
The club thing sometimes seems like an excuse. Once you pull together as a county board, a panel and a management, club rivalries can be left outside the door. Rynaghs would murder Birr in their beds, but it never stopped them hurling with each other.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 14, 2015, 09:48:34 AM
You often hear that when counties aren't going well, or achieving their perceived potential. I know folk in Antrim think there's an unhealthy atmosphere among some clubs, and Galway in the 90s was poisonous at some stages too. (Still is some would say). Laois used to cut each others throats as well, Camross and Castletown would slaughter each other if they could. I think in Kerry, the truth is the county board has little interest in hurling, and because of it's isolated nature (I think there's only 2 clubs south of Mid Kerry) you need to get a great crop to be competitive. They don't have great crops, and the county board didn't even enter them in the Munster Championship so it's hard to build on nothing. This result is huge for them, and maybe they could go on and win a Christy Ring as well.
The club thing sometimes seems like an excuse. Once you pull together as a county board, a panel and a management, club rivalries can be left outside the door. Rynaghs would murder Birr in their beds, but it never stopped them hurling with each other.
Kerry should win the CR this year (in saying that, they should have won it last year), but that won't bring them on in any way.
There's room for the CR to include the round robin losers in Leinster, upping the standard in it a bit, but the only downside would be the additional hindrance to club games in the competing counties, but as the early rounds of the CR and Leinster and quite early in the year, it could be workable.
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 14, 2015, 09:48:34 AM
You often hear that when counties aren't going well, or achieving their perceived potential. I know folk in Antrim think there's an unhealthy atmosphere among some clubs, and Galway in the 90s was poisonous at some stages too. (Still is some would say). Laois used to cut each others throats as well, Camross and Castletown would slaughter each other if they could. I think in Kerry, the truth is the county board has little interest in hurling, and because of it's isolated nature (I think there's only 2 clubs south of Mid Kerry) you need to get a great crop to be competitive. They don't have great crops, and the county board didn't even enter them in the Munster Championship so it's hard to build on nothing. This result is huge for them, and maybe they could go on and win a Christy Ring as well.
The club thing sometimes seems like an excuse. Once you pull together as a county board, a panel and a management, club rivalries can be left outside the door. Rynaghs would murder Birr in their beds, but it never stopped them hurling with each other.
The club v county thing is also a vicious circle in that the less relative success the county is having the more likely it is that individuals and clubs can't be arsed giving the county setup 100% backing.
QuoteLaois used to cut each others throats as well, Camross and Castletown would slaughter each other if they could
Used to?!
Ah I suppose it's not as bad as it was.
The worst thing about that though was most of them were related to each other!
Quote from: laoislad on April 14, 2015, 02:05:03 PM
QuoteLaois used to cut each others throats as well, Camross and Castletown would slaughter each other if they could
Used to?!
Ah I suppose it's not as bad as it was.
The worst thing about that though was most of them were related to each other!
Isn't everyone in Laois??
Delighted to see Kerry hurling making progress and building on the success of Causeway Comprehensive. I see Pádraig boyle, DAn Collins and Dougie Fitzell are among the CC past pupils to make the step up.
I don't like singling out individuals, but is Shane Dunne (Ballyheigue) still hurling? The nearest thing I have seen to DJ Carey in stride and strike.
Well done Kerry. We need to get our shit together though.
Antrim hurling all over the shop. I doubt we'll even field for the Christy Ring at this rate! Check out the Antrim Hurling pages.
Quote from: AQMP on April 01, 2016, 02:22:54 PM
Antrim hurling all over the shop. I doubt we'll even field for the Christy Ring at this rate! Check out the Antrim Hurling pages.
Just did, at Mayo's low ebbs, things haven't been that bad. Jesus!
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 02, 2016, 09:35:05 AM
Quote from: AQMP on April 01, 2016, 02:22:54 PM
Antrim hurling all over the shop. I doubt we'll even field for the Christy Ring at this rate! Check out the Antrim Hurling pages.
Just did, at Mayo's low ebbs, things haven't been that bad. Jesus!
Just had a read there, grim stuff
Jaysus I took a look. You often hear things like 'that setup is like a soap opera', but in this case it's true. A script writer would balk at it because it sounds too far fetched.